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Author Topic: $451M Streets plan on Nov. 4th General Ballot  (Read 9114 times)
YoungTulsan
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« on: September 03, 2008, 02:15:14 am »

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8939534 (KOTV)

Looks like the $451 Million version will be on the November 4th general election ballot.

And we even get a detailed list of each project, how nice!  
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/pdf/0808/Streets5Year.pdf (KOTV)


Will the high turnouts for the Presidential election have a positive or negative effect on the success of this?  I have heard it theorized by some that they generally like to put the tax initiatives on lower turnout days so the Yes voters can be rallied up and the No voters can be kept in the dark.  Is that just a wacky idea, or are the streets a different beast?  Whereas most common people think the streets are bad and need to be fixed, would probably forget to go vote on an odd election day, but will be there at the polls anyway for the Presidential race?

Anything stick out as absurd on the list of projects/costs?  Anything disturbing in its absence from the list?

I didn't know the Crow Creek bridge on Riverside was deficient.  Do you think the replacement would be forward looking to any possible widenings/use changes of Riverside in the future?  That'll sure snarl up traffic if they do it.

I think I will support this, just for the sake of getting the hard work started.  In another 5 to 10 years we can start licking our chops over the upcoming Vision2025 expiration, and during this period we can have serious discussions about doing more than just street widening.
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YoungTulsan
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 02:59:35 am »

Giant image ahoy!

I shrunk it down, and the forum shrunk it down some more.  You may need to click on it.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 06:19:08 am by YoungTulsan » Logged

 
Conan71
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 09:41:14 am »

I think this has a great chance of passing and is easier for voters to digest.  I'm glad the Mayor and Council seem to be listening.

I want to read up on it a little more before Friendly Bear starts up with his "tax vampire" naysaying, but on the surface, I can't see any reason I'd not vote for it.

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carltonplace
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 10:17:07 am »

I see there is more money for the Boulder bridge in the proposal. I wouldn't have any problem with starting there if this passes.
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Friendly Bear
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 10:41:05 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

I think this has a great chance of passing and is easier for voters to digest.  I'm glad the Mayor and Council seem to be listening.

I want to read up on it a little more before Friendly Bear starts up with his "tax vampire" naysaying, but on the surface, I can't see any reason I'd not vote for it.





I generally like to get some details and analyze a new tax proposal before I automatically oppose it.

What is the breakdown of funding sources for this new tax?

Details?

P.S. Any reason this Topic wasn't posted on the Political Arena Forum?

May have cooled off the Obamites vitriole a few degrees there.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 10:42:29 am by Friendly Bear » Logged
Gaspar
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 11:39:08 am »

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.





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izmophonik
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 12:00:45 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Bored, plotted all the arterials, intersections, and bridges.  Busted out my trusty giant google map of Tulsa.


Edit - imageshack killed the resolution on my image.  Don't know where else to upload it - 1313 x 1738 (Tulsa is big!)



e-mail it to me, I'll host it on my website.

adamday1@cox.net
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TheArtist
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 12:04:10 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.









I thought you said realistic and ethical,,, then you go and say they should unethically paint that unrealistic picture. This plan, none of the presented plans for that matter, would have given us anything close to the "best, cleanest, smoothest roads in the country". At best we will get our roads up to a "C".

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Gaspar
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 12:10:44 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.









I thought you said realistic and ethical,,, then you go and say they should unethically paint that unrealistic picture. This plan, none of the presented plans for that matter, would have given us anything close to the "best, cleanest, smoothest roads in the country". At best we will get our roads up to a "C".





You can't sell a C to people who expect an F.

This plan is a rung on the ladder.  The plan is secondary to the goal.  The goal is presenting something positive for the City of Tulsa and getting the people to agree on a ballet.  Then. . . Following through in such a manner that the people agree to more needed improvements and involve themselves in the solution.

As it stands the people expect the city to threaten them with disaster if they don't vote yes.  If they do vote yes, they expect the city to mismanage the funds and then turn around and ask for more.  

My point is that imagery of success promotes success.  


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grahambino
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 12:26:36 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.



"Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around."  

that reads as if it were the opening scene of Taxi Driver.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 12:40:59 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by grahambino

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.



"Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around."  

that reads as if it were the opening scene of Taxi Driver.



Exactly except without all the violence.

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Conan71
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 12:56:38 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.









I thought you said realistic and ethical,,, then you go and say they should unethically paint that unrealistic picture. This plan, none of the presented plans for that matter, would have given us anything close to the "best, cleanest, smoothest roads in the country". At best we will get our roads up to a "C".





You can't sell a C to people who expect an F.

This plan is a rung on the ladder.  The plan is secondary to the goal.  The goal is presenting something positive for the City of Tulsa and getting the people to agree on a ballet.  Then. . . Following through in such a manner that the people agree to more needed improvements and involve themselves in the solution.

As it stands the people expect the city to threaten them with disaster if they don't vote yes.  If they do vote yes, they expect the city to mismanage the funds and then turn around and ask for more.  

My point is that imagery of success promotes success.  






They could show revamped downtown streets, residential streets which have been re-done, like Florence Park, etc.

Definitely, cut the hyperbole.  That's what turns people into skeptics and turns off the voters.  I believe it's entirely possible the river tax would have passed without all the outrageous claims and promises they made.

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Friendly Bear
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 01:13:12 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.









I thought you said realistic and ethical,,, then you go and say they should unethically paint that unrealistic picture. This plan, none of the presented plans for that matter, would have given us anything close to the "best, cleanest, smoothest roads in the country". At best we will get our roads up to a "C".





You can't sell a C to people who expect an F.

This plan is a rung on the ladder.  The plan is secondary to the goal.  The goal is presenting something positive for the City of Tulsa and getting the people to agree on a ballet.  Then. . . Following through in such a manner that the people agree to more needed improvements and involve themselves in the solution.

As it stands the people expect the city to threaten them with disaster if they don't vote yes.  If they do vote yes, they expect the city to mismanage the funds and then turn around and ask for more.  

My point is that imagery of success promotes success.  






They could show revamped downtown streets, residential streets which have been re-done, like Florence Park, etc.

Definitely, cut the hyperbole.  That's what turns people into skeptics and turns off the voters.  I believe it's entirely possible the river tax would have passed without all the outrageous claims and promises they made.





Can anyone provide a precise description of the source of the proposed taxes?

Property?

New Sales Taxes?

Third Penny?

Or?

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Gaspar
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 01:22:05 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.









I thought you said realistic and ethical,,, then you go and say they should unethically paint that unrealistic picture. This plan, none of the presented plans for that matter, would have given us anything close to the "best, cleanest, smoothest roads in the country". At best we will get our roads up to a "C".





You can't sell a C to people who expect an F.

This plan is a rung on the ladder.  The plan is secondary to the goal.  The goal is presenting something positive for the City of Tulsa and getting the people to agree on a ballet.  Then. . . Following through in such a manner that the people agree to more needed improvements and involve themselves in the solution.

As it stands the people expect the city to threaten them with disaster if they don't vote yes.  If they do vote yes, they expect the city to mismanage the funds and then turn around and ask for more.  

My point is that imagery of success promotes success.  






They could show revamped downtown streets, residential streets which have been re-done, like Florence Park, etc.

Definitely, cut the hyperbole.  That's what turns people into skeptics and turns off the voters.  I believe it's entirely possible the river tax would have passed without all the outrageous claims and promises they made.





Can anyone provide a precise description of the source of the proposed taxes?

Property?

New Sales Taxes?

Third Penny?

Or?





Sales tax rate remains the same, and property taxes see a maximum increase of about $55 for a $100,000 home.

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Friendly Bear
City Father
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 01:40:54 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

Thank you Mayor Taylor.  

This will pass.

We must now make sure that the promotion and advertising for the plan is realistic, ethical, and POSITIVE.  

It's as simple as that, and this is a done deal.

Pictures of sad children, suffering, and the oh so popular "if you don't vote for this, your grandmother will die" marketing ploys will surely kill this just like it did for the Channels project.  Threaten us and we vote no.

Ok, here's how it needs to go down. . . The ads need to focus on the prospect of Tulsa having a reputation for the best, cleanest, smoothest streets in the country.  Show businesses flourishing, happy people on busses, in cars and walking on sidewalks.  Promote the message within a futuristic atmosphere of prosperity and pride.  Tie it in with images of the arena, ballpark and a busy bright down-town atmosphere.  Night time images with rain glistening off of clean smooth streets, and the reflection from the colorful lights of businesses and the movement of people walking around.  Show movement in bright skys with rapidly moving clouds over a bright city landscape (this typically emotes progress).

You're welcome.  No charge.









I thought you said realistic and ethical,,, then you go and say they should unethically paint that unrealistic picture. This plan, none of the presented plans for that matter, would have given us anything close to the "best, cleanest, smoothest roads in the country". At best we will get our roads up to a "C".





You can't sell a C to people who expect an F.

This plan is a rung on the ladder.  The plan is secondary to the goal.  The goal is presenting something positive for the City of Tulsa and getting the people to agree on a ballet.  Then. . . Following through in such a manner that the people agree to more needed improvements and involve themselves in the solution.

As it stands the people expect the city to threaten them with disaster if they don't vote yes.  If they do vote yes, they expect the city to mismanage the funds and then turn around and ask for more.  

My point is that imagery of success promotes success.  






They could show revamped downtown streets, residential streets which have been re-done, like Florence Park, etc.

Definitely, cut the hyperbole.  That's what turns people into skeptics and turns off the voters.  I believe it's entirely possible the river tax would have passed without all the outrageous claims and promises they made.





Can anyone provide a precise description of the source of the proposed taxes?

Property?

New Sales Taxes?

Third Penny?

Or?





Sales tax rate remains the same, and property taxes see a maximum increase of about $55 for a $100,000 home.





Does the Publik Werkes Direktor Chas. Hardt get fired/retired as part of this street tax initiative?

After all, he was in charge when the decision was made back in Mayor Susan Savage's reign to quit maintaining the streets through regular crack filling, patching and re-paving.

Instead, the city adopted the Re-Build concept for street repairs, using the Third Penny Sales Tax instead of city operating budget money.

We since learned the hardt way if you quit maintaining the streets, they deteriorate faster than they can be re-built.

Hardt needs to be replaced by a competent Civil Engineer knowledgeable about street repair/maintenance.

Hardt needs a gold watch, a handshake, and there's the door Good-bye.


« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 01:41:41 pm by Friendly Bear » Logged
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