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PonderInc
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2008, 10:09:58 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Will PlaniTulsa do "outreach" at DFest?


This is a great idea.  I would encourage anyone who wants to get involved and help spread the word to contact the Planning Department and ask for cards and information to help disseminate.
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PonderInc
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« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2008, 10:14:06 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

What happened to the videos of some previous Tulsa Now land use forums(i.e passing the popsicle test, CORE proposals,Building the 'Beautiful' Back Into Tulsa"etc.)? I thought there used to be links to these on the TulsaNow website. I think these would be good resources to review that were generally well received as we discuss the comp plan update.

Look on the "resources" page for some of the links to videos and past events.  I think the links to other videos are buried in the archives of the TN home page.  We'll try to make them easier to find.
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« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2008, 12:51:08 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

I know. I was out in the lobby afterwards complaining that it didnt look like the crowd was that mixed, that there werent any blacks represented. Then not but a couple seconds later a group of them walked out of the auditorium. Still wish there had been more but the PlaniTulsa people did say they were going to have a meeting soon in the Greenwood area. So it does look like they are reaching out to different areas and different groups. Perhaps TN should consider getting The Eagle to run info about meetings like this that we have?





Hey dumb****, OSU Tulsa is in Greenwood.



Ummm that goes without saying. The gist was that they were going to have one in Greenwood to reach out to a specific part of the community. You were there and heard them mention it and know the context in which it was mentioned better than those on here who didnt. It was mentioned in the context of having OTHER meetings in the FUTURE in different sections of the city to get people involved who live in those communities, they were talking about diversity and trying to include different groups.  They listed the different areas and Greenwood was one of them. I think they mentioned where in Greenwood it was going to be, and it wasnt OSU Tulsa. And if it is there, they are still going to have another meeting in Greenwood to specifically reach out to a specific group of people.





I noticed that you and I seem to agree one one issue that will need to be addressed and that I think we both find important. That is affordable housing.  As Downtown and other areas do start to infill there is a risk that large areas will start becoming affordable only to the middle and upper income levels.

I am not sure if its in the purview of the Comprehensive plan, but it would be nice to see some type of requirement, incentive, financing mechanism, where new developments either have a percentage of their housing be affordable, or pay into a fund to help build affordable housing... Not sure of the different ways of making something like that work or how other cities do it. But I would be interested to learn and if you have any info or concern about it I would be glad to work with you and help push for that.  

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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2008, 12:55:54 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

What happened to the videos of some previous Tulsa Now land use forums(i.e passing the popsicle test, CORE proposals,Building the 'Beautiful' Back Into Tulsa"etc.)? I thought there used to be links to these on the TulsaNow website. I think these would be good resources to review that were generally well received as we discuss the comp plan update.

Look on the "resources" page for some of the links to videos and past events.  I think the links to other videos are buried in the archives of the TN home page.  We'll try to make them easier to find.



Thank You. This is another great resource that needs to be considered as Tulsa updates The Comp Plan:

Multi Hazard Mitigation Plan Update

There is a power point presentation that airs on TGOV that is much better than the link I provided, IMO. I can't seem to find the video on the internets, though.

Here's a link to a UTW article on this subject:

Not If, but When?

« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 01:42:43 pm by Double A » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2008, 01:32:47 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

Quote


I noticed that you and I seem to agree one one issue that will need to be addressed and that I think we both find important. That is affordable housing.  As Downtown and other areas do start to infill there is a risk that large areas will start becoming affordable only to the middle and upper income levels.

I am not sure if its in the purview of the Comprehensive plan, but it would be nice to see some type of requirement, incentive, financing mechanism, where new developments either have a percentage of their housing be affordable, or pay into a fund to help build affordable housing... Not sure of the different ways of making something like that work or how other cities do it. But I would be interested to learn and if you have any info or concern about it I would be glad to work with you and help push for that.  





It is within the Purview. Other cities are already doing it.

Which brings me to another resource that I think Tulsa would benefit greatly from taking a long hard look at is the phenomenal, provocative PBS series:

e▓


Neighborhood Sensitive, Sustainable, Mixed Use, Mixed Income Infill

It does have a nice ring to it.

That might be a chant I could cheerlead for.

Where'd I put those pesky pom-poms?[Cheesy]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 01:34:52 pm by Double A » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2008, 12:15:48 pm »

Here is another good resource for folks to consider as they contemplate the Comp Plan Update:

COHN Presents - How Do We Save Our Historic Resources in Tulsa

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« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2008, 02:52:36 pm »

Still waiting to hear when those Partners and Advisors meetings are being held. How about pointing us towards some agendas and minutes from these meetings? Will it take filling an open records request to get this info? Has Queen Kathy set this up so these groups don't have to comply with the open meetings act? Still waiting.
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« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2008, 10:19:10 am »

quote:
Originally posted by OSU

I attended last night and was impressed with what I saw. I just graduated from OSU last year so I guess that makes me part of the desired "young professional" demographic. Since I graduated I have been trying to get out of Tulsa as if my life had depended upon it because I have perceived Tulsa as lacking a vision for the future.Portland is actually one of my original target cities along with Austin and Boston as my top cities. I'm glad that Tulsa is making strides to update its plan for the future and hopefully encourage me to stay. If Tulsa can move in the direction of Portland i.e. mixed use structures in an urban environment serviced by light rail or other efficient public transportation, I'll stay for the long haul.

p.s. I don't "know" anyone off of this forum; I know recyclemichael from TV reports, but I would chance a guess that I sat near DoubleA or some other angry man who mumbled to himself after every point in the presentation.



I'm hoping the same thing for Tulsa.  I live in Norman now and work in OKC (getting a graduate degree at OU) but I recently lived/worked in Denver.  I am going back and forth between heading back to Denver, a very progressive transit-oriented city, or Tulsa, my beloved hometown.  I work in design/build development and there are great opportunities for me in both cities but more in Denver (my emphasis is on commercial and residential infill projects in urban and/or historical neighborhoods and districts).  However there will be more if we develop a great Comp. Plan that takes examples from cities like Portland, Austin, etc.  Tulsa definitely has the potential.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2008, 12:10:09 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Will PlaniTulsa do "outreach" at DFest?



Yes they were. I saw Theron Warlick passing out little flyers about PlaniTulsa on Detroit last night. I tried to offer him a beer, but he was busy trying to talk to a small crowd of people.
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« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2008, 01:18:12 am »

Survey Says

My favorite excerpts:

Six items were ranked as high priorities by at least 70 percent of the respondents: Repairing and maintaining streets, improving public education, new economic opportunities and jobs, clean air and water, improving public safety and health care.

Another five items topped 60 percent: Renewable energy sources, keeping young adults in Tulsa, support for small business and entrepreneurs, affordable housing for students, seniors, and working people, and harmony among the various racial and ethnic groups in the city.

Repairing and maintaining streets was considered a high priority by 84 percent citywide, deviating only slightly by region. (There was a curious racial difference on the issue: 90 percent of whites called streets a high priority, but the same was true for only 70 percent of non-whites.)

The numbers for each high priority were fairly uniform across regional and racial groups, with a few notable exceptions.

A slightly larger proportion of Downtowners and Midtowners ranked clean air and water (84 percent vs. 76 percent), keeping young adults in Tulsa (75 percent vs. 66 percent), and making renewable energy available (73 percent vs. 68 percent) as high priorities than Tulsa as a whole.

Fewer Downtowners, Midtowners, and south Tulsans were concerned about affordable housing than in other parts of the city (58 percent Midtown and 55 percent south vs. 63 percent). South Tulsans, who are mainly not in the Tulsa Public School district, put slightly less priority on public education than the rest of the city, but not by much (75 percent vs. 80 percent).

The most dramatic regional differences came further down the list of priorities. Overall, only 31 percent of Tulsans consider Arkansas River development a high priority, with the strongest support in south Tulsa (41 percent) and Midtown (38 percent) and the weakest support in east (20 percent) and north Tulsa (22 percent). West Tulsa was close to the citywide average at 30 percent.

There was a 19-point gap for limiting immigration. Forty-nine percent of Eastsiders considered it a high priority, versus only 30 percent of Midtowners.

There was a consensus (83 percent) that north Tulsa has not received enough attention and resources, while 65 percent said the same about west Tulsa.

Despite the broad agreement over priorities, the survey revealed a widespread perception of a disconnect between leaders and citizens. These problems were felt most keenly in north, east, and west Tulsa.

"City leaders in Tulsa understand my community's needs." Fifty-two percent of Midtowners and 48 percent of south Tulsans agreed with that statement, but only 27 percent of Northsiders and Westsiders did. Citywide, the statement polled 39 percent agreement, a stunning statement of no confidence in city leadership.

"I do not feel included in the planning process. People like me are always left out." Majorities agreed in north (59 percent), east (52 percent), and west Tulsa (51 percent). Fewer than a third of Midtowners (32 percent) and Southies (31 percent) agreed. Sixty percent of non-whites agreed, versus 38 percent of whites. Forty-four percent was the overall total.

"I'm concerned the plan will be too influenced by those who have a lot of money." Seventy percent of Tulsans agreed with that statement, which received strongest support from Northsiders (80 percent), Westsiders (74 percent), and Eastsiders (71 percent). The statement received a lower level, but still a majority, of support in south Tulsa and Midtown--about 60 percent.

The gap between Midtown and south Tulsa on the one hand and north, west and east Tulsa is not surprising. Maps of election results showing support for various tax increases, of where appointees to city boards and commissions live, and of those selected to the PLANiTULSA Advisers and Partners reveal a common pattern.

Rather called the skepticism about carrying out the plan "pervasive." It came up both in the in-depth interviews and in the broader survey polling. She said, "A lot of people feel like it doesn't matter how you plan. Folks that have a lot of money, or a lot of influence get to do what they want."

Rather characterized what she was hearing from Tulsans about the planning: "We engage in the public process, we go to these meetings, we do the hard work, but at the end of the day our expectations are not met." She urged action to ensure that this plan has a real chance to avoid that fate.

Maybe the most hopeful sign was that there was near-unanimous agreement with this statement: "Assuming people like me participate in the plan and the plan is carried out fairly by the city, I think Tulsa will change for the better as a result of it." Ninety-one percent of Tulsans concurred, with no significant variation across the city.

But there are two very big assumptions in that statement.

The second assumption is at the mercy of city officials. The approval of the Bomasada development in Brookside by the TMAPC and the Council and the TMAPC's approval last week of John Bumgarner's rezoning of the southwest corner of 14th and Utica from residential to high-intensity office both send the signal to the public that plans don't matter in Tulsa. If someone has enough money and influence, he can build anything he wants, anywhere he wants.

The river tax vote demonstrated that, even a recent plan, developed with a great deal of community input, will be drastically modified if someone wealthy demands it as a condition of a gift. (That perception is reinforced by how much time and effort was invested in discussing the $788 million Channels concept, an even more radical departure from the river plan developed by INCOG.)

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PonderInc
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« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2008, 01:49:41 pm »

If thousands of citizens participate in PLANiTULSA to create a vision for the city, and then follow through by continuing to participate in the civic realm...there should be plenty of political will to support that vision.  (This will include updating the zoning code to support the comp plan.)  Anyone who fails to respect the voice of the community, should expect to be voted out by an (actively engaged) citizenry.
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MichaelBates
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« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2008, 02:12:41 pm »

DoubleA, if you're going to quote that much, you may as well quote the rest of it -- just three more paragraphs, and the last two in line with what PonderInc wrote:

quote:



We're over a year away from our next city election, and that will be the next opportunity to fix this problem by electing a mayor and councilors who have the backbone to say no to the rich and powerful.

The fulfillment of that first assumption is in the hands of everyone reading this column. You have friends, family, neighbors, and associates. You belong to churches and clubs. You talk to people at work. You need to encourage every Tulsan you know to set aside either September 22 or 23 to participate in one of the citywide workshops. One will be held during the day, the other will be held in the evening.

The more Tulsans participate, the more representative the result will be. First we help put together the best plan possible, and then we watch closely, make noise, and change leaders if necessary to ensure that the plan is carried out.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 02:13:18 pm by MichaelBates » Logged
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« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2008, 09:47:58 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

  (This will include updating the zoning code to support the comp plan.)  



What if we want to throw out the zoning code and start fresh? Is that on the table? I've heard it isn't.

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« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2008, 06:07:42 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

  (This will include updating the zoning code to support the comp plan.)  



What if we want to throw out the zoning code and start fresh? Is that on the table? I've heard it isn't.




After PLANiTULSA's Comp Plan update, chucking the zoning code and starting fresh most likely will be an option, although John Fregonese and Gary Reddick didn't seem to be in agreement on this point when they made their presentations on July 15th.

We need to push this issue with the TMAPC.
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« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2008, 09:44:56 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by PonderInc

  (This will include updating the zoning code to support the comp plan.)  



What if we want to throw out the zoning code and start fresh? Is that on the table? I've heard it isn't.



I tend to agree with booworld.  If you wanted to rewrite the code, what would you base it upon?  The old plan?  No plan at all?  Once you have a new plan in place, then changing the zoning code to support that plan makes perfect sense.

Double A, sometimes you find conspiracies where none exist.  And when I say "sometimes", I really mean, "almost always".  Frankly, I'm skeptical of the things you "hear".  Mainly, this is because of the things you apparently do not hear.

Are you going to "hear" what your friend Bates is saying?  He wants you to "encourage every Tulsan" to participate.  Did you hear that?  King, big-dog, rock thrower himself is saying that we need to work together to create the "best plan possible".

And here you are still trying to talk people out of it.  Why?
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