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RecycleMichael
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« on: July 15, 2008, 09:19:34 pm »

It was an excellent turnout. There are a lot of people interested in this program and I was pleased so many people want to be involved.
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dsjeffries
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2008, 11:21:52 pm »

Bah. I just saw a bunch of rich, white Midtowners.  There were no people from East Tulsa, which is a clear indication that this process is corrupt and only stands to benefit the oligarchical families of Maple Ridge.  What's in it for them? I bet they're getting money out of this.  Oh, also, the Mayor is obviously to blame.

[Wink]

In all seriousness, though, I was impressed with John Fregonese, and can't wait to become more involved.  Being one of those sought-after young, creative people, I hope I'll have several chances to give my input.  Also, to play with maps and draw things the way I want them.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 11:24:25 pm by dsjeffries » Logged
mrsgrizzle
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 05:08:43 am »

I had a great time last night and enjoyed learning how this will all work. I'm really looking forward to watching this process unfold. I think the maps project is going to be a very interesting way to gather public opinion. I also appreciated the great examples of Portland, Seattle and other cities and think we are in a position to learn a lot from them. It was nice to see people walking out in clusters talking about Tulsa's future. I can't wait to see how many turn out for the map planning days.

There was a gentleman in the back videoing the speakers - does anyone know where that presentation will be available?
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 07:15:01 am »

Yes, it was very informative. Learned some interesting tidbits. It is great to hear and see what other cities have done so that you have a broader range of possibilities to think about. Its really going to be interesting to see the map project and see the different ideas emerge as to how Tulsa should develope into the future. Are we going to be downtown centered, or multinodal? My guess is that we will have a mixture of both.

I think the 2 most contentious conversations are going to be about 1... infill and zoning. What areas you want to be stable, what areas you want to have high density infill. 2... Transportation. Do we want to tie up all our transportation dollars for a long time with a big plan to fix the roads over a long period? Or start with a short term plan that can enable us to change directions and put more attention towards mass transit options.


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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2008, 07:24:54 am »

Fregonese was better than the architect. I have trouble caring about concept drawings for other cities. Heck, I'm not that interested in concept drawings for this city unless I know it is for something with a reasonable chance of being built.

I will be more excited if I see more of this "tell us what you want and fight for it" mentality they were talking about. I hope to attend the september events although having them Monday & Tuesday seems weird.


The recorded version of the meeting will be shown on TGOV in 2 parts.
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2008, 07:31:54 am »

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

Fregonese was better than the architect. I have trouble caring about concept drawings for other cities. Heck, I'm not that interested in concept drawings for this city unless I know it is for something with a reasonable chance of being built.

I will be more excited if I see more of this "tell us what you want and fight for it" mentality they were talking about. I hope to attend the september events although having them Monday & Tuesday seems weird.


The recorded version of the meeting will be shown on TGOV in 2 parts.



All that contemporary architecture made me drool lol. Lot of it was absolutely beautiful.

Two other tidbits I found interesting.

1... The idea of valuable property, above your head and even above existing buildings. I thought it was fascinating how there were so many older buildings that they had developed right on top of. Or that say a church parking lot can still stay, but you build on the property that exists in the air 10 feet above it. The church still owns the ground property for their parking needs, but they can lease out the air property above to developers.

2... You could hear an audible gasp when he would show you large 15 and 20 sory, mixed use, buildings that had just been built and him say "and we didnt add a single parking space" or something to the effect of "there are 175 new lofts in this building and we built 50 parking spaces for the tennants".

« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 07:43:17 am by TheArtist » Logged

"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2008, 08:29:36 am »

I was surprised to see a fairly diverse turnout. Typically at these events, you see a lot of elderly and adults, but there were a good chunk of young adults in attendance as well. Similar with racial makeup. The proportions were eerily comparable to Tulsa's overall demographics.
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 08:57:25 am »

I know. I was out in the lobby afterwards complaining that it didnt look like the crowd was that mixed, that there werent any blacks represented. Then not but a couple seconds later a group of them walked out of the auditorium. Still wish there had been more but the PlaniTulsa people did say they were going to have a meeting soon in the Greenwood area. So it does look like they are reaching out to different areas and different groups. Perhaps TN should consider getting The Eagle to run info about meetings like this that we have?

« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 08:58:18 am by TheArtist » Logged

"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
MichaelBates
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2008, 09:27:26 am »

quote:
Originally posted by mrsgrizzle


There was a gentleman in the back videoing the speakers - does anyone know where that presentation will be available?



I thought I saw someone with TGOV setting up a camera before the meeting. Perhaps it will be on Channel 24. I hope so, as I had to leave early to hit two other events.

By my count, we had 120 people there at 6:15.

I went to Shades of Brown later that evening and came across a lively discussion between a group of under-30s -- two of whom had been at the meeting -- about what, if anything, could be done to make 71st & Memorial more urban. I encouraged all of them to sign up at planitulsa.org and to plan to attend one of the workshops.

Someone in that conversation expressed concern that he wasn't well informed enough about urban planning to participate. I assured him that all that was needed is his interest in the topic, coupled with the willingness to use his observation skills and imagination. The best writers and thinkers on urban planning  -- people like Jane Jacobs and Jim Kunstler and Roberta Brandes Gratz -- aren't trained planners or architects, but are rather keen observers of what works and what doesn't.
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Conan71
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2008, 09:33:56 am »

quote:
Originally posted by dsjeffries

Bah. I just saw a bunch of rich, white Midtowners.  There were no people from East Tulsa, which is a clear indication that this process is corrupt and only stands to benefit the oligarchical families of Maple Ridge.  What's in it for them? I bet they're getting money out of this.  Oh, also, the Mayor is obviously to blame.

[Wink]

In all seriousness, though, I was impressed with John Fregonese, and can't wait to become more involved.  Being one of those sought-after young, creative people, I hope I'll have several chances to give my input.  Also, to play with maps and draw things the way I want them.



No one from east Tulsa?  Recycle was there.  Wait, we all know he's just a strategically-placed sock-puppet for the oligarchy. [Wink]

Am I imagining, or did Fregonese address us when we had the TN gathering at Topeca after the BOK tour?  If that was the guy, yeah, I'm pretty impressed.

I would have gone, but they keep scheduling these meetings where it conflicts with my rowing schedule.  We've got someone from INCOG in the rowing club, maybe I need to see if she can change these large-scale public forums to suit my personal schedule. [}:)]

Sounds like a great and well-recieved forum.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2008, 10:47:22 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Recycle was there.  Wait, we all know he's just a strategically-placed sock-puppet for the oligarchy. [Wink]


I gategorically deny I am strategically placed. I am more of a random sock puppet.
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Double A
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 12:14:21 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

Fregonese was better than the architect. I have trouble caring about concept drawings for other cities. Heck, I'm not that interested in concept drawings for this city unless I know it is for something with a reasonable chance of being built.

I will be more excited if I see more of this "tell us what you want and fight for it" mentality they were talking about. I hope to attend the september events although having them Monday & Tuesday seems weird.


The recorded version of the meeting will be shown on TGOV in 2 parts.



Ditto.

An hour and a half of self promotion, followed by a half hour of Q & A was not the forum I was expecting. It's a shame the forum ended without everyone who bothered to show up and submit their questions having the opportunity to get their questions asked.

The fact remains that this plan is still woefully underfunded and is being rushed for purely political purposes.

I hope you all got the message that the public wants this Comp plan update to go to a public vote for approval and adoption. Any other method is unacceptable, period. If this is a truly public process, the public should have the final say.

I have to disagree with the assessment that race is the biggest division in Tulsa. It's the economic divisions that divide Tulsa more than anything else. It was refreshing to hear Frego touch on this, however briefly, stressing the importance of mixed income development as an important piece of the the puzzle to create a thriving, vibrant community. To bad this usually falls on deaf ears with the Tulsa Now crowd.

P.S. real diverse crowd there, BTW.[sarcasm off]
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 12:16:29 pm by Double A » Logged

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PonderInc
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2008, 12:37:29 pm »

There was actually an hour of presentations and an hour of Q&A.  Ken did a great job of consolidating similar questions so that we could get through them all.  (Which we did.)  AA, did you ask a question that didn't get answered?  I stayed around after the meeting, and I didn't hear anyone complain that we didn't get to their question.  However, you've got me thinking that anyone with questions should post them, and maybe we can get them answered on this forum.

I was excited to see how many people stuck around to chat in small groups after the meeting ended.  I hope they were all coming up with strategies to get their neighbors, co-workers, etc involved.  As Fregonese pointed out, if everyone in the crowd (135 was my final count) talks to 5 people...that's a pretty good start.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2008, 12:40:42 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates

...about what, if anything, could be done to make 71st & Memorial more urban. ...



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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2008, 12:44:06 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates

I went to Shades of Brown later that evening and came across a lively discussion between a group of under-30s -- two of whom had been at the meeting -- about what, if anything, could be done to make 71st & Memorial more urban. I encouraged all of them to sign up at planitulsa.org and to plan to attend one of the workshops.

Someone in that conversation expressed concern that he wasn't well informed enough about urban planning to participate. I assured him that all that was needed is his interest in the topic, coupled with the willingness to use his observation skills and imagination. The best writers and thinkers on urban planning  -- people like Jane Jacobs and Jim Kunstler and Roberta Brandes Gratz -- aren't trained planners or architects, but are rather keen observers of what works and what doesn't.


This is great news!  I was especially happy to see a lot of younger people at the meeting.  And I'm glad to hear they were chatting about it afterwards at a coffee shop!  

I'm glad you encouraged them to get involved regardless of "formal training."  It doesn't take a degree in urban planning to understand what you love about a town, what you hate, and what you would like to change/improve.  All you have to do is live your life, pay attention, and imagine the possibilities...if so, you're qualified!
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