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carltonplace
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« Reply #210 on: August 11, 2008, 08:48:38 am » |
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quote:
Originally posted by TulsaFuture
Con't --
It could happen and thats a good reason for a committee or trust to have direct approval directly by the stadium. Also, this thread has been very angry and hostile. I am not the mayor nor do I know her or her family - I'm offended that someone suggested that just because I have a different opinion. I also never use my name on the Internet anywhere as do many of the people on this site!
Differences of opinion are welcomed here; are what makes this forum interesting and educational. Some posters are justifiably angry by what is percieved as a land grab from a developer with a proposal that many people were excited about..the type of development that most feel would be supported throughout the downtown area, Pearl District, Cherry St, Uptown etc. I haven't noticed any hostility. Your posts have an "insidery" quality to them that made me suspect you were someone involved in this matter. You also began posting the same day that I sent an email letter to the mayor with this thread included in the post script. I guess I jumped to a conclusion and I appologize for that. Welcome to the forum. |
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Renaissance
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« Reply #211 on: August 11, 2008, 10:01:19 am » |
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quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I resolve to lose another 5 lbs. before August 30th. Digitally signed and dated this 10th of August 2008. I will negotiate with myself each day and even throw in some roadwork if necessary to make it happen. If I don't make the date, I may extend the period of time. If someone offers me free food at Oscars Gastropub, well the negotiations may breakdown.
They had permission to negotiate. They decided not to. Not too rare in business.
The TDA isn't a business. It's a public trust.
So if the Drillers behaved the same way toward the City of Tulsa, it wouldn't trouble you a bit?
Semantics. Like the thin lines between cops and crooks, lawyers and mafia. They didn't direct them to negotiate successfully, just negotiate. They did. Now they have likely been directed to stop negotiating and they have.
And no, I wouldn't. I love baseball but made it clear from the beginning that either location was fine with me as long as a minimum of public dollars is involved.
Disagree. Unlike the other entities you named, the TDA and the city have a responsibility to encourage smart growth and development. Through their own incompetence, they failed in this instance. Watch those videos from the TDA meeting and then try to tell me the mayor is on top of all the details here. She isn't, and that's the problem. Nobody's steering this ship, and people are getting screwed as a result. In other words--the anger is that our local government isn't behaving the way it's supposed to and we want it to do better. |
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #212 on: August 11, 2008, 10:29:06 am » |
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I posted in the wrong thread...
I am an idiot and now I have witnesses.
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 11:30:30 am by RecycleMichael »
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Power is nothing till you use it.
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Renaissance
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« Reply #213 on: August 11, 2008, 10:55:35 am » |
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Wrong thread, dude.
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cks511
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« Reply #214 on: August 11, 2008, 11:08:57 am » |
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quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
The THA......
RM, onward through the fog. |
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #215 on: August 11, 2008, 11:24:33 am » |
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120 Brady wants to put the homeless next to drillers!?!?!
Newsgasm at 11.
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Double A
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« Reply #216 on: August 11, 2008, 11:43:32 am » |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
120 Brady wants to put the homeless next to drillers!?!?!
Newsgasm at 11.
Well played.[  ] |
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<center>  </center> The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. Ars Longa, Vita Brevis! |
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ARGUS
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« Reply #217 on: August 11, 2008, 12:15:47 pm » |
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RM - the LOFTMAN got screwed is my point about the stadium; that's my argument in this thread.
Why did he get screwed? A long argument I hope will ensue and bring light to/about(TDA).
Root problem : stadium in wrong location.
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Hometown
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« Reply #218 on: August 11, 2008, 12:34:32 pm » |
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What I loved about New York is that it is chocked full of Kaisers and Basses and Gettys. On the world stage these players are a dime a dozen. In New York they are just one of thousands of billionnaires.
Billionnaire to New York: Give me special treatment. New York to Billionnaire: No. Get in line.
Up until then, i'd spent my life in small towns watching the local big money people run over little money people.
I laughed at the recent Tulsa World Editorial. "Stop picking on me and my rich friends."
I left Tulsa for 30 years. Let me tell you what has changed: Other than losing the oil business and a lot of beautiful buildings -- Nothing. Tulsa has yet to grow up. But she's showings signs of maturation.
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brunoflipper
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« Reply #219 on: August 11, 2008, 01:16:18 pm » |
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
quote:
Originally posted by brunoflipper
quote:
Originally posted by TheLofts@120
How would Mayor Taylor feel after spending so much time, money and energy advocating for a development to bring about positive growth and change only for Chuck Lamson to say sorry, Im leaving to talk to Jenks in case they can offer something and forget about having that agreement, doesnt mean anything?
talk is cheap...
get it in writing...
no contract means NO CONTRACT...
without a contract, this is all fairplay...
in business, these types of situations occur everyday...
why is anyone shocked/surprised/appalled?
Will Wilkins had it in writing. The TDA passed a resolution in January granting them an exclusive negotiating period, and in April they extended the period to September 4. These resolutions were passed by the board, signed by the chairman of the TDA board, and entered into the TDA's minutes.
The City doesn't have a contract with the Drillers either. The Drillers gave the City has the same deal the TDA gave the Wilkinses: a commitment to negotiate in good faith during the period and not to entertain any other offers until the period has expired.
still NOT A CONTRACT... **** happens... |
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waterboy
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« Reply #220 on: August 11, 2008, 06:06:21 pm » |
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quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
I resolve to lose another 5 lbs. before August 30th. Digitally signed and dated this 10th of August 2008. I will negotiate with myself each day and even throw in some roadwork if necessary to make it happen. If I don't make the date, I may extend the period of time. If someone offers me free food at Oscars Gastropub, well the negotiations may breakdown.
They had permission to negotiate. They decided not to. Not too rare in business.
The TDA isn't a business. It's a public trust.
So if the Drillers behaved the same way toward the City of Tulsa, it wouldn't trouble you a bit?
Semantics. Like the thin lines between cops and crooks, lawyers and mafia. They didn't direct them to negotiate successfully, just negotiate. They did. Now they have likely been directed to stop negotiating and they have.
And no, I wouldn't. I love baseball but made it clear from the beginning that either location was fine with me as long as a minimum of public dollars is involved.
Disagree. Unlike the other entities you named, the TDA and the city have a responsibility to encourage smart growth and development. Through their own incompetence, they failed in this instance. Watch those videos from the TDA meeting and then try to tell me the mayor is on top of all the details here. She isn't, and that's the problem. Nobody's steering this ship, and people are getting screwed as a result.
In other words--the anger is that our local government isn't behaving the way it's supposed to and we want it to do better.
It would help to watch the videos if I had the opportunity (and a couple quarts of malt liquor). Perhaps they shed light on some incompetence. Just looking at this from an outsiders perspective it looks like he got screwed. I'm just saying it is common for good projects to not materialize both in government and business for lots of reasons even though both parties were negotiating in good faith. No contract was involved, the circumstances changed and negotiations fell through. What would some of you conspiratorial types have said if Novus was extended the same expected contract terms even though his location was now many times more valuable? Wouldn't you have suspected insider activity from a developer who had past dealings with the city? |
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Rico
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« Reply #221 on: August 11, 2008, 07:35:35 pm » |
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Quote >What would some of you conspiratorial types have said if Novus was extended the same expected contract terms even though his location was now many times more valuable? Wouldn't you have suspected insider activity from a developer who had past dealings with the city?< end quote.
Conspiracy is more often than not founded with a small amount of fact.
The facts in this case speak to someone that was
trying to make an investment and contribution to Downtown.
When the 6th and Peoria area, as it is fast becoming, starts selling some rather expensive dirt are you going to fault K and say he had insider knowledge regarding the areas future growth...?
That is sheer lunacy... as is that anyone would think that this developer had an inside edge.
Certainly it was one of the areas rumored.
But that was the extent of it.
This is not how business is done on a daily basis... unless you are speaking of deals with persons of interest on the crime blotter.
Everyone wants to find a reason for this to be OK.. Just the luck of the draw.
This will have a severe impact on how the fledgling architects,builders,developers, to mention a few view the PlaniTulsa scenario and what can be accomplished.
If this fellow were Jamie J. ,looking to build another set of Brownstones with added mixed use,
I have doubts it would be met with any of the resistance we have witnessed on this forum.
This "Forum" ,for the most part, seems to be in denial.
"The "Good ole Boys" are not doing this some benafactors of our future Downtown panacea are."
Bull Sh#t. and yes... it stinks to high heaven.
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Double A
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« Reply #222 on: August 11, 2008, 08:14:06 pm » |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rico
If this fellow were Jamie J. ,looking to build another set of Brownstones with added mixed use,
I have doubts it would be met with any of the resistance we have witnessed on this forum.
This "Forum" ,for the most part, seems to be in denial.
Word. Es Verdad. Watch out though, you're just begging for one of Spincyle's self righteous, irrational, totally hypocritical lectures about being positive and accusing you of being a bitter, negative person. Ya know, his typical response to the truths posted on this forum. |
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<center> </center> The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. Ars Longa, Vita Brevis! |
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #223 on: August 11, 2008, 08:20:07 pm » |
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I would never say that about Rico. I respect him.
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Power is nothing till you use it.
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TheLofts@120
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« Reply #224 on: August 12, 2008, 12:51:28 pm » |
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Just an FYI.
The City Council at today's Urban & Economic Development meeting heard from TDA Chairman Carl Bracy, Vice Chairman George Shahadi, TDA/City Staff Hurst Swiggart and City Real Estate Roger Acebo with regards to our situation and how it was handled by the TDA.
Last week I spoke at the committee meeting and today was TDA's opportuity to address the issues I have raised. The Councilors asked very pertinent questions throughout the hour and I believe reached a fair and balanced concensus. I wont go into their statements, you can see and hear those for yourself tonight on KJRH Channel 2, listen to them on KRMG and in the Tulsa World.
TGOV Channel 24 (Cox) will carry a re-broadcast of the committee meeting starting at 9:00pm tonight. Our item on the agenda may not start at 9:00 but should follow soon after.
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