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August 20, 2018, 12:35:29 am
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 71 
 on: August 12, 2018, 07:24:26 pm 
Started by sgrizzle - Last post by Conan71
Nice coverage of the Park, but it beats up on Tulsa pretty hard in the process.

No kidding.  It makes Tulsa sound like a complete racist shite hole and seems to ignore all the progress made in the urban core over the last 20 years.

 72 
 on: August 12, 2018, 06:37:02 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by dbacksfan 2.0
They could have hazardous waste trucked there for incineration, or a deep-injection well, or a carcass-rendering facility, all of which would affect the surrounding community but who would have no recourse than to just "get used to it?"

Where would a line be drawn, and who could do it?

I don't think there is an answer, you would like to think common sense would figure in there somewhere, but we all know that doesn't happen. Best answer, follow the money.

 73 
 on: August 12, 2018, 06:31:49 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by patric
and no taxes were paid last year, and doesn't appear to be any for this year. So it appears that it is Tribal land, so I guess they can use it as they see fit. I disagree with the billboard, but that's my opinion.

They could have hazardous waste trucked there for incineration, or a deep-injection well, or a carcass-rendering facility, all of which would affect the surrounding community but who would have no recourse than to just "get used to it?"

Where would a line be drawn, and who could do it?

 74 
 on: August 12, 2018, 06:07:29 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by dbacksfan 2.0
Let's not forget that all of Eastern Oklahoma is tribal land. All of Tulsa south of Admiral is in the Creek Nation.

The land can't be leased, The Creek Nation, or a tribal citizen, has to own the land and the land has to be within the National Area of the Creek Nation. The national area of the tribe being the borders of the former Creek reservation in Indian Territory, which was was basically stolen from the tribe via allotment by the Dawes Act in the early 20th century as Oklahoma became a state. The Creek reservation here being the land that was given to the tribe when their land in Georgia and Alabama was stolen in the 1820s and they were sent to die on the trail of tears by the dude that we still have on the $20 bill for some reason.

Yes, I remember my Oklahoma History at Whitney Jr. High. I wasn't try to dispute that. You could say the same for most of the US.

Quote
Anyway, back to this plot of land, The Creek Nation, or a citizen, would have to own it and then the tribe would file with the BIA for the land to placed in Trust or Reserved Status with the federal government. Meaning that the land then is federal land held in Trust ownership on behalf of the sovereign Creek Nation and/or it's people as per federal laws regarding and treaties with the Creek Nation.

I do not know how Tulsa County would handle the sale and placing in reserved status of a piece of land. Tulsa County would no longer receive any taxes from that land so the assessor has nothing to assess. The County would no longer have any authority or jurisdiction over that land. I do remember when The Creek Nation bought Riverwalk in Jenks they gave the city a few million dollars so they wouldn't fight Riverwalk being placed in reserved status, which would mean that Jenks would get no taxes from Riverwalk. I now am not actually sure the tribe has ever put Riverwalk in reserved status, but they could. Riverspirit Casino obviously is reserved land.That's why you see Creek Nation Lighthorse Police there instead of TPD.

It seems, according to the assessor's info that it was purchased in 2015 by  MICHELLE WOLF VOICE and the mailing address is
C/O MUSKOGEE CREEK NATION REALTY
PO BOX 580
OKMULGEE, OK 74447

and no taxes were paid last year, and doesn't appear to be any for this year. So it appears that it is Tribal land, so I guess they can use it as they see fit. I disagree with the billboard, but that's my opinion.

 75 
 on: August 12, 2018, 06:04:13 pm 
Started by Conan71 - Last post by Conan71
That's an interesting tactic to absolve Dems of any blame for voting to fund the Iraq war. I'll have to try that one out on my friends, see how it plays.

And Bill Clinton claiming at that time he knew "without a doubt" there were unaccounted for WMD's in Iraq.  Sounds like his intel must have been flawed as well, eh?

Everyone seemed pretty confident there were WMD in Iraq and Iraq had a hand in 9/11 until it was an unpopular stance.  I don't think we will ever fully know the truth on that one.

 76 
 on: August 12, 2018, 05:30:07 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by swake
So a 1/4 acre lot is considered tribal/federal land out of the whole area because it's leased to the Creek Nation? Or is more of that area "tribal land"? Sounds like a new version of "imminent domain" the tribe is paying for the land so they can do what they want. Sounds really fishy.
Let's not forget that all of Eastern Oklahoma is tribal land. All of Tulsa south of Admiral is in the Creek Nation.

The land can't be leased, The Creek Nation, or a tribal citizen, has to own the land and the land has to be within the National Area of the Creek Nation. The national area of the tribe being the borders of the former Creek reservation in Indian Territory, which was was basically stolen from the tribe via allotment by the Dawes Act in the early 20th century as Oklahoma became a state. The Creek reservation here being the land that was given to the tribe when their land in Georgia and Alabama was stolen in the 1820s and they were sent to die on the trail of tears by the dude that we still have on the $20 bill for some reason.

Anyway, back to this plot of land, The Creek Nation, or a citizen, would have to own it and then the tribe would file with the BIA for the land to placed in Trust or Reserved Status with the federal government. Meaning that the land then is federal land held in Trust ownership on behalf of the sovereign Creek Nation and/or it's people as per federal laws regarding and treaties with the Creek Nation.

I do not know how Tulsa County would handle the sale and placing in reserved status of a piece of land. Tulsa County would no longer receive any taxes from that land so the assessor has nothing to assess. The County would no longer have any authority or jurisdiction over that land. I do remember when The Creek Nation bought Riverwalk in Jenks they gave the city a few million dollars so they wouldn't fight Riverwalk being placed in reserved status, which would mean that Jenks would get no taxes from Riverwalk. I now am not actually sure the tribe has ever put Riverwalk in reserved status, but they could. Riverspirit Casino obviously is reserved land.That's why you see Creek Nation Lighthorse Police there instead of TPD.

 77 
 on: August 12, 2018, 05:00:22 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by dbacksfan 2.0
So a 1/4 acre lot is considered tribal/federal land out of the whole area because it's leased to the Creek Nation? Or is more of that area "tribal land"? Sounds like a new version of "imminent domain" the tribe is paying for the land so they can do what they want. Sounds really fishy.

Property details

http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R02075932102470&return=close

 78 
 on: August 12, 2018, 04:45:36 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by patric
I thought this was the property where they were wanting to put in a smoke shop, correct?


KJRH: The Muscogee (Creek) Nation said it was aware of the lease on the land, but the process doesn’t go through them.

KOTV:  The neighbors were first concerned when it was cleared off for a smoke shop but that was never built.
A fireworks stand later appeared on the property but it never opened and the property was fenced off marked as "federal land" now this week it's the site of a billboard.
http://www.newson6.com/story/38861103/billboard-placed-near-tulsa-neighborhood-has-residents-angry


 79 
 on: August 12, 2018, 04:10:38 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by Conan71
I thought this was the property where they were wanting to put in a smoke shop, correct?

 80 
 on: August 12, 2018, 04:04:21 pm 
Started by patric - Last post by swake
Interesting angle.  Would a solution be more like a sanction against businesses that seek to skirt the law, if that is what happened?

I'm not sure about the status of this land in particular, but if it is reserved/trust tribal land then the site isn't legally in Tulsa and only Federal and Creek Nation laws would apply. There's no Tulsa zoning law to skirt because the site legally is Creek National land, not Tulsa or even Oklahoma. I'm sure that's how and why this site was chosen based on the article and the issues you are bringing up. Your appeal to apply zoning would then have to go to the Creek Nation.

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