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Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on May 05, 2008, 09:01:31 pm Don't kill the messenger...
I received an unexpected phone call this afternoon from the United Soccer League's Senior Director of Franchise Development, Matt Weibe. The call lasted about 15 mins... http://www.uslsoccer.com/aboutusl/contactus/166756.html Mr. Weibe started by stating to me that Tulsa is "one of ten markets" the USL is very interested in for USL-1 expansion... keep in mind that I'm only paraphrasing what he said based on what I remember from the conversation. He went on to give his sales pitch that the league averages about 5,000 fans per game... highest attendances are in Portland, Rochester and Montreal with the club in Montreal leading the league at 13k fans per game... that USL-1 is a safer bet financially than MLS... and has solid ownership, some of whom could have invested in Major League Soccer but balked at MLS's single-entity setup... He let me know that the league admired the "name appeal" of the Tulsa Roughnecks, implying they would like to see a franchise in Tulsa use the "Roughnecks" brand name... BTW, three out of the eleven cities in USL-1 (Portland, Seattle, Vancouver) still use the old NASL names -- from a league that collapsed back in '85... here are the teams in USL-1 (the league will be adding a team in Austin, TX next season)... Atlanta Silverbacks Carolina RailHawks Charleston Battery Miami FC Blues Minnesota Thunder Montreal Impact Portland Timbers Puerto Rico Islanders Rochester Rhinos Seattle Sounders Vancouver Whitecaps I was also told that the USL could have granted a PDL level club (amateur) to a group in Tulsa the last two years, but the league refused... basically implying that it was the league's opinion that the Tulsa market could do better -- I think he also mentioned something similar about a USL-2 team, but I don't remember if USL actually denied a formal USL-2 proposal from Tulsa or if the league didn't want to consider any plan going that direction either... And here's an interesting twist... Mr. Weibe mentioned the Portland soccer franchise prominently in our conversation and that the Timbers' USL-1 team is actually owned by the same people who own the Portland Beavers AAA baseball club, implying Tulsa could emulate Portland's business model... http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2008/03/31/story4.html?ana=from_rss I failed to ask Mr. Weibe if he had spoken with Drillers' owner Chuck Lamson yet... but wouldn't be surprised if either: A) Lamson's had a conversation or two with USL. B) Nothing's been discussed. C) Chuck Lamson's never heard of the USL. D) Lamson really could care less about anything involving a sports entity other than the Drillers... and hates soccer. [:P] I gotta admit, the idea of the Drillers' organization actually owning/operating a USL-1 team hadn't occured to me... Pros?/Cons? Why?/Why not? *****p.s.-- Weibe hadn't heard anything about Jenks' plans for a stadium and didn't know where Jenks was located in relation to Tulsa... so, I gave him some info over the phone and emailed back a reply with info on the River District development.... [:D] Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: Breadburner on May 06, 2008, 05:58:07 am Yawnnn....
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: sgrizzle on May 06, 2008, 06:24:12 am YART! (Yet another roughnecks thread)
It's nice to know we're being considered but I'll wait until something solid happens to be excited. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: cannon_fodder on May 06, 2008, 08:38:24 am +1 Sq.
It would be great if the city planned ahead enough to work out a new stadium with Soccer in mind. The city could utilize their new asset more AND bring a new element to the city. BUT, we just spent a ton of effort kicking all the Hispanics out of Tulsa - won't a soccer franchise just attract more? [;)] Seriously, it would be interesting and good for Tulsa. But as a non-soccer fan I'd probably only catch a couple games a year. I hope it happens and I would be glad, but if it doesn't I'm not that concerned and frankly, in Tulsa I try not to get excited until something actually happens. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: TheTed on May 06, 2008, 11:20:18 am A soccer team would be nice, but building the new Drillers Stadium to accomodate soccer means we get an ugly baseball/soccer stadium with poor sightlines and possibly artificial turf. There's a reason all the big league teams moved out of their multiuse stadiums in the last decade.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on May 06, 2008, 03:49:01 pm Not necessarily.
But I certainly wouldn't expect the Drillers or the city of Tulsa this month to go out of their way on behalf of a soccer-friendly ballpark that satisfies USL-1... even though a certain Average Joe seemed to have no problem in the past advocating the same type of combined facility built "for baseball, first and foremost" to be shared with an Major League Soccer team, which happened to be a proposal MLS wouldn't give the time of day... I'm not sure what kind of stadium people in Tulsa associate with a soccer friendly baseball park, but the initial pic from Global Development Partners actually is a "soccer friendly" configuration... bleacher seats help alot... and viewing angles closer to a 90-degree angle that aren't as sharp as the ones at the current erector-set stadium at Driller Park... (http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/images/EastEndThumbNail.jpg) http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/Flyers/east_end_property_brochure.pdf Here's the soccer-friendly ballpark built in '96 in Rochester... (http://www.small-parks.com/FrontierBowl.JPG) PGE Ballpark in Portland, OR is a much older facility that was not originally built for baseball, but seems to work okay... the 3rd baseline would be the endzone for soccer/football games, while the first baseline is closer to the field... http://www.ballparkreviews.com/portor/pge.htm# (http://www.ballparkreviews.com/portor/pge2.jpg) Hey, if I had my druthers, I'd rather have a "soccer-specific" facility built on the river in Jenks and shared with Jenks HS... But I just thought I'd share where the conversation with the guy from the USL went... and that seemed to be in the direction of the desire for shared operations with the Drillers..... heck, replace the baseball with a soccer ball and the same Drillers' logo could be used for the Roughnecks... (http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/truthserum607/AA%20logos/tulsa_drillers.png) Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: PonderInc on May 06, 2008, 04:37:16 pm I'm all for the Tulsa Roughnecks coming back to town. They could play in...hey!...Skelly Stadium! Or maybe the Fairgrounds could use some of that new open space for something other than livestock.
All this talk reminds me how much I miss Charlie Mitchell's nachos... Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: ttownclown on May 06, 2008, 05:33:43 pm From what I heard, the new river development in Jenks is still planning a stadium as part of development. I've heard soccer is now one of their main options when the Drillers go downtown.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: sgrizzle on May 06, 2008, 07:14:41 pm quote: I could see this working, although I'm not sure what everyone has against large scenic outdoor music venues. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: Renaissance on May 06, 2008, 08:48:27 pm quote: Makes a lot of sense. When I think of Jenks I think of soccer moms. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: Gold on May 07, 2008, 09:42:35 am quote: That's a hell of an idea if true. I was against the Jenks plan for a lot of reasons, but if they can get the funding to do that and the ownership group (big "ifs"), then go for it. All that said, there are so many serious hurdles for that Jenks plan that I won't hold my breath. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: swake on May 07, 2008, 10:00:39 am quote: Hurdles for the Jenks plan? It’s under construction now. You should take a look, it’s a massive site. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: perspicuity85 on May 07, 2008, 11:36:30 am quote: A soccer stadium should work for outdoor music. I'm not sure what the configuration of the Jenks stadium will be, but I think it should be built with room for future expansion. An MLS team may not be likely today, but there a lot of things going on right now that are helping Tulsa take off. Perhaps in 5 years Tulsa will be a prime target for MLS expansion. The same philosophy the NBA used for OKC may be used for Tulsa by the MLS-- OKC and Tulsa are just two hours away. A Tulsa soccer team should be marketed to OKC. Having a USL team in Tulsa could really build up a soccer fan base, and leverage the city into MLS in the future. I'd say the best case scenario today is getting a USL team in Jenks. As the Jenks riverfront area and the urban core of Tulsa grow, we will be a more attractive MLS market. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: Renaissance on May 07, 2008, 12:21:09 pm Let's not forget about Tulsa Landing, either. A major assumption of the Mayor's office and Tulsa planners (at least, Jack Crowley and the rail folks) is that West Bank development is inevitable. If Rick Huffman and HCW are still involved with potential plans, their initial Tulsa Landing scheme included a soccer stadium as well.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: jtcrissup on May 07, 2008, 01:10:31 pm quote: I have been to this park and played a couple of football games in it (against Portland State in college) and I thought it was pretty baseball focused. I thought the layout as a football field was terrible for the fans and weird for one of the sidelines as you have nothing behind your bench but center and left field. I think a soccer layout in a baseball stadium would be equally weird/unattractive unless you had some seats you could roll in behind the sideline to "close" it in a little. It feels like you are not even playing in front of a crowd when there are no stands/people behind your bench, and thus the whole atmosphere of the game is diminished. All that said, I would be skeptical on a multi-use baseball/soccer stadium in downtown. I would want to see how they convert the seating during the soccer matches to make it feel right. I think it can be done, just not sure if those looking into it want to spend the $$ to do it right (which is why I would be skeptical...I would rather see it done right for 1 sport than half a$$ for 2 sports). Make sense? edit: I don't know how to post the pic, but this link shows the lame layout of the football field at PGE for Portland State. They get over 10K fans at these games, but you would never know it on the field...you can hear a pin drop in the huddle even when they are "being loud". http://www.goviks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=19300&KEY=&ATCLID=1419818 Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: Gold on May 07, 2008, 02:03:00 pm quote: With the stadium? Nope. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: sgrizzle on May 07, 2008, 08:43:25 pm quote: they are like 1-2 months into a year of dirtwork. Plenty of time for designs to change and it become an RV park. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: JoeMommaBlake on May 10, 2008, 09:58:11 am (http://www.pizzahutpark.com/Portals/0/images/park_nolegend5.gif)
Frisco, TX built this. Apparently it is the trend to combine youth soccer fields with a larger soccer stadium. It also doubles as a concert venue (Jimmy Buffet, Kenny Chesney, and Edge Fest) are scheduled. The previously mentioned west bank of our river currently has a soccer complex. Imagine having something like this just a train ride away from the downtown Joe Momma's. When you build the major stadium as part of a youth complex you physically tie the stadium to a place your target audience is spending their Saturdays. For MLS to work in Tulsa, we will have to get the families that play soccer now to pony up. They are the target audience...which is good, because there are tons of them. I'd love to see this at the west bank. Here's another pic: (http://www.collegelax.us/img/pizzahutpark1.jpg) Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: sgrizzle on May 10, 2008, 02:50:37 pm USRufnex has suggested the above before, putting practice fields by the stadium. I would like to see the river district look like the above, but throw in a couple of sports bar&grills and sporting goods stores to go with it.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: TheArtist on May 10, 2008, 04:33:29 pm I would like to see more residential and commercial on the west bank.
I think it would be neat to have a soccer stadium just east of OSU Tulsa and the youth and practice fields just east of that. Dont know if its possible but that way OSU Tulsa could help pay for and use the soccer stadium, would have downtown synergies, OSU Tulsa could become more of a well rounded university by being able to offer sports, parking could be used by more people more often possibly connected to rail, etc. Same benefits you would have if it were by the river but with the added benefits of it being able to be part of the college and downtown. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: JoeMommaBlake on May 10, 2008, 09:38:26 pm Mmmm. I like it.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on May 11, 2008, 09:24:28 pm I'm reading through some stuff from USL and they have a couple of large brouchures... one for potential owners and one brouchure that looks to entice an international club interested in owning a USL franchise in the states... strangely enough, Tulsa is already mentioned in the brouchure as one of the potential cities for international investors...
Yet, the guy from the USL didn't know where Jenks was and hadn't heard anything about the Jenks river project at all... Here's a recent article from Portland on USL or MLS??? The latest idea from the owner of both the basball and soccer teams centers around building the AAA ballclub a brand new stadium while renovating PGE Park into something "soccer specific" for Major League Soccer. Back in 2003, the expansion fee for Tulsa to get a team in MLS was $10mil... now.... (http://www.oregonsports.com/Resources/Uploaded/Images/Hunting-MLS.jpg) Major League Soccer wants $40 million for an expansion franchise. http://www.oregonsports.com/Story.aspx?sc=3&sid=220 "PGE Park is the best reason to slow the expansion process because it’s a baseball stadium that can handle soccer. Turning it into a soccer-specific stadium in the short term to handle MLS, as Paulson has publicly discussed, and then building a baseball stadium involves renovating/building two stadiums instead of just building a soccer stadium like so many many cities are doing around the world. Portland should just build a soccer stadium. It built a tram for OHSU, it should build a soccer stadium for its citizens. A stadium would enhance its global reputation, which can only improve the city’s ability to market to the business community. And, the stadium, which could double as an outdoor concert venue, needs to be in the heart of the city, in order to counter urban sprawl and save energy." http://www.boutiquemeteo.com/saputo/pano57.htm ***Huge panoramic photo of the new 13,000 seat Stade Saputo in Montreal which will open officiallly next week... add a concert stage on one end??? ... Mr. Lynn Mitchell to the white courtesy phone please.... Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on May 14, 2008, 01:50:57 pm quote:I've pointed out that the construction of youth fields beside the stadium is one of Major League Soccer's business plans.... but IMHO, having a large number of fields around the stadium has more to do with using youth soccer as a political futbol to get the stadium funded/built than anything that would increase attendance at games... Does "do it for the children" sound familiar? Besides that, when the last third-penny tax passed, it included millions of dollars for Mohawk Park improvements including 16-18 soccer fields... the plan has evolved to now include 30-32 fields last time I checked... Conventions, Sports & Leisure's 2003 feasability study only recommended a downtown location for a soccer stadium w/o the fields... By CURTIS KILLMAN World Staff Writer 2/15/2003 A feasibility study ordered by local officials recommends adding several entertainment venues. http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=030215_Ne_a1_study quote: ... also, you can compare TU's renovations for Chapman Stadium to Pizza Hut Park in Frisco, TX and UofH's Robertson Stadium in Houston... Here's more answers about MLS's business plans for new stadiums.... from former Chicago Fire GM Peter Wilt, who had previously been working with Global Development Partners in trying to put together a mixed-use project for MLS in Milwaukee... http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11897432&postcount=83 Q: What is the honest truth about having additional entertainment venues around a stadium (meaning restaurants and bars, mainly)? Is this an outdated approach now that new stadia seem to be built in suburbia? Would a stadium in the city surrounded by additional venues for pre/post-match pursuits give the Milwaukee club/fanbase a different feel that that of other teams in MLS? A: No,it's not an outdated approach with stadia in the suburbs. Mixed-use development works in the suburbs, too. There's no single formula for economic success of a stadium. The common theme is that there must be additional revenue streams than just the stadium. Capture of revenues from an urban real estate development near a stadium is still an extremely attractive formula. Harrison, NJ and Washington, DC will have that model. Bridgeview is developing the east parking lot of TP with a waterpark, hotel, shops and restaurants to help fund the stadium. Soccer complexes are another form of ancillary revenue generation that can fund/justify stadium development. Pizza Hut Park used that formula. Colorado used a hybrid of soccer complex and mixed use development. KC and St. Louis are pursuing a similar hybrid model. Toronto is unique in that BMO Field stands alone. It was built inexpensively mainly with public funds and will have year round public usage to help justify the public investment. A downtown stadium in a mixed-use development would absolutely give the Milwaukee club/fanbase a different feel....though, if we get our stadium, i don't believe it will be downtown. But for USL1, a 22,000 seat stadium is not needed... Driller Park could be used, or Skelly Stadium (even though it'd likely be too big/expensive?)... USL1 wouldn't be opposed to sharing the field with a minor league ballclub... or if Jenks wants to tout a USL1 sized stadium of around 13k, expandable to MLS specs if pipedreams ever come to fruition... Edmond/UCO is looking to attract a team to play at refurbished Wantland Stadium... and is also on USL1's list of cities... http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8787 (http://www.nmnathletics.com.edgesuite.net/pics/400/TO/TOUEGZRRJOGXLXP.20060114234010.jpg) (http://www.nmnathletics.com.edgesuite.net/pics10/400/WE/WEUAPSFELFDHWGS.20060708194721.jpg) ***the extra yards on either sideline at Wantland Stadium is the difference between appropriate "soccer" field dimensions (110 x 75) and the dimensions at Skelly (110 x 60+?) Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on May 29, 2008, 05:27:48 pm quote: ... yeah, I liked the ribeye sandwich, myself... back in the day, Skelly Stadium was consistently voted the worst field in the old NASL... a thin layer of astroturf on top of concrete, an awful "crown" for drainage, narrow field dimensions... which is why in 2002, Lamar Hunt told LaFortune, the city of Tulsa and the Tulsa World that Skelly would not be acceptable for MLS... IMO, if $1.8mil would have been spent for stadium renovations in 1993, Tulsa would have been chosen for a league-owned team in MLS to play in the league's inaugural season in 1996... fifteen years later, $24mil in stadium renovations accomplishes... 1. The requested MLS stadium seating capacity for MLS(20k- 30k)... but would be an oversized venue for USL1. 2. Good financials (20 revenue generating luxury suites is three more than you'll find at Pizza Hut Park) 3. New scoreboard. 4. New turf that extends all the way past the sidelines... wonder how wide the field is now? 5. New field-- field turf will work fine for USL1 soccer, but TU just put in the kind of field turf with permanent markings, making it next to impossible for soccer... unless somebody's got a big, fat eraser... http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080522_11_A2_spancl280009 (http:// http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/Thumbs/20080522_J=TUFB0522_article.jpg) Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: cannon_fodder on May 30, 2008, 07:35:12 am Actually Ruf, the field markings aren't painted on - they are inlaid with different colors of field turf. That way they will not fade nor have to be altered until the entire field is ready to die (~10 years for turf, generally). So no size of eraser would remedy the problem.
But I'm sure some clever work around could be found if a real need arose. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on July 10, 2008, 11:55:26 am well..... was just trying to be snarky about the new field turf. if you want to see what it looks like when somebody uses a "giant eraser" on a football field, here it is, from a 1981 game against the Jacksonville Tea Men [:D]... (about a minute into the video)....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFGKETFrxQc Haven't received any cold calls from USL offices in Tampa lately, but found this bit of news interesting... Tampa Bay Rowdies to get new life in USL By Eduardo A. Encina, Times Staff Writer Posted: Jun 19, 2008 06:25 PM http://tampabay.com/sports/soccer/article633711.ece The owners have already paid a one-time $350,000 franchise fee and Nestor said he expects an operating budget of about $2 million. Holt said the new Rowdies will be the first USL franchise to launch in a custom-built soccer stadium that they've built. "It's unique thing because we've gotten there over time with most of our venues," Holt said. Nestor said the team's stadium plan is completely independent of the county commissioners plan to build a 30-field soccer facility for $15 million, of which an initial proposal for a larger complex that included a stadium for $40 million. Tampa has had two pro soccer teams that folded. The Tampa Bay Rowdies played in the NASL for 18 years, playing at Tampa Stadium mostly, but folded in 1993. MLS's Tampa Bay Mutiny, which played at Raymond James, lasted just six years, never able to capture a soccer atmosphere with the lack of an intimate venue. "We obviously need to prove ourselves to the community," Nestor said. "We as a group understand that there are a lot of question marks." The ownership group, however, still has plenty of details to work out. Nestor said the ownership will fully fund a 7,500-seat stadium, but a site and price tag have yet to be determined. The team hired former Rowdies player and Mutiny coach Perry Van Der Beck as technical director and to head the team's youth soccer initiative, but it still needs to hire a general manager and head coach. The team will retain the old Rowdies colors of green and gold, given permission to take over the NASL brand by former Rowdies owner Cornelia Corbett, but a logo hasn't been released. ------------------------------------------------ USL-1 wants to expand... to 16 teams by 2010... and Tulsa is close to the top of their wishlist, which for whatever reason, includes a desire to resurrect/keep some of the old NASL names like the Rowdies... and the Tulsa Roughnecks... http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16082 They will be losing the Seattle Sounders franchise to MLS next year..... the owner/investor group was looking to rename/rebrand the team, but the old NASL/USL name "Sounders" won after a write-in campaign... The league is trying to expand to reduce travel expenses and find some regional rivals for the new team in Austin-- they're looking to Tulsa... as well as OKC (to play at Wantland Stadium in Edmond), San Antonio, Albuquerque, Omaha... Not a big fan of watching soccer games at a minor league ballpark, but something is better than nothing... and there is something to be said for sharing operating expenses for one field compared to ???... USL-1 wants it. For 2010. Does Tulsa? Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: TURobY on July 10, 2008, 12:09:19 pm quote: We've established that Tulsans are interested, but there isn't much the average layperson can do at this point, correct? I ask, because you seem the most knowledgable poster on this forum, what Tulsans should do? Is there a letter writing campaign? Is there a donor (previous or present) that we should appeal to? It's cool that Tulsa's on the list, but how do we guarantee that we get a golden ticket? Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: brunoflipper on July 10, 2008, 02:28:06 pm i do... and lots of other people do as well....
and i cant find it, but i swear on one of the proposed ballpark renderings showed a soccer pitch overlaying the diamond/outfield as well... Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: sgrizzle on July 10, 2008, 02:46:32 pm The new field will be maintained by the Driller's so I'm assuming that you will have to sell the Driller's on this idea as much as anyone else.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: zstyles on July 10, 2008, 03:19:44 pm quote: Better watch our you might stir up Recycle Michaels feelings from that ...and get spanked Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: Renaissance on July 10, 2008, 03:20:37 pm I seem to recall one of the articles saying that one of the city's requirements for the design was that it support conversion to soccer for local competitions. Didn't read this as talking about pro soccer, but it's supposedly in ithe plans.
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: perspicuity85 on July 11, 2008, 02:44:35 pm I noticed from the USL web site that the soccer season runs at the same time as baseball season. How do the teams that share stadiums work that out?
Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on July 11, 2008, 07:14:48 pm I'll put it this way, perspi: It ain't pretty. Whether it's for second division USL games or, for the shoulda-moved-to-Tulsa Kansas City Wizards in MLS...
For baseball: http://tbonesbaseball.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/VirtualMap/08-Stadium-Map3.jpg For soccer: (http://web.mlsnet.com/t105/imgs/stadium/2008/seating_map_lg_0308.gif) To be fair, Kansas City's OnGoal LLC is building a soccer stadium/mixed-use TIF project through Three Trails Redevelopment LLC to replace the old Bannister Mall there..... so playing Major League Soccer games at a minor league ballpark is simply a temporary measure for them... and make no mistake, the owners are losing money hand-over-fist in this arrangement, unable to draw the approx 15,000 fans per game MLS officials have quoted as part of their business plan..... USL-1 draws an average crowd of 4,000 to 5,000 per game... This game from July 10th drew just under 8,800 fans--- click the "watch" link under Highlights for the 7/10 NY@KC game and you'll see the obvious problems at Comerica Ballpark... the grass berm seating is still nice, though... http://web.mlsnet.com/sights/ Any possibility of playing pro soccer at the new ballpark (Mayor Taylor only mentioned "kids soccer" in her statement last night) would need to benefit the authority for the ballpark (extra lease payment $$$ to the city?) and the Drillers (extra payments to them for field maintenance?)... would this make more sense and cost less $$$ than trying to convert the old Driller Park for soccer?!? Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on July 11, 2008, 07:30:29 pm And to answer your question, perspi...
The owner of the USL-1 team in Portland also owns the AAA ballclub which seems to work well for them... and the league seems okay with scheduling 14 regular season home games around the Portland Beavers minor league baseball schedule at PGE Park... the same was done in Rochester for years before their USL club got a new stadium... Syracuse, NY had a team in USL-1 in 2003 but had a really bad relationship with the minor league ballclub there and the team folded a year later... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_Salty_Dogs (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/42/Saltydogssyr.jpg/800px-Saltydogssyr.jpg) Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: rwarn17588 on July 12, 2008, 12:01:00 am Not a chance in hell.
I've talked to enough groundskeepers over the years to know that having soccer games regularly on a baseball field would be a maintenance nightmare. It's hard enough to keep ballpark that's baseball-only in tip-top shape through a long season. Unless you want artificial turf, of course. [xx(] It doesn't take a genius to figure out why major-league football and baseball teams moved away from multipurpose stadiums over the past two decades. It's because those type of stadiums don't work very well for either sport. Title: New Tulsa Roughnecks at New Driller Park? Post by: USRufnex on September 12, 2008, 10:12:39 pm Compare Collinsville/St Louis MLS stadium plans to Jenks' River District... rinse, repeat...
http://collinsvilleherald.stltoday.com/articles/2008/08/27/news/sj2tn20080827-0827cvj-cooper.ii1.txt Soccer stadium developer may balk at league fees Cooper now says they may look to another group By Chris Coates Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:15 AM CDT The attorney who has spent a year wooing investors to fund a $573 million mixed-use soccer stadium complex now admits a key piece of the plan - a new Major League Soccer expansion team to be housed on the Collinsville site - may be too costly. "We have to look at this as a business decision," said Jeff Cooper, chairman of St. Louis Soccer United, a group that's spearheaded the effort to secure a professional men's soccer team in the region. The effort has focused largely on building a 18,500-seat stadium and retail center at Horseshoe Lake Road and Interstate 255 to lure the sport's biggest association, Major League Soccer, to grant St. Louis an expansion team. But Cooper, who has been aggressively recruiting investors for the project, last week said that MLS has steadily increased the cost of adding a team, and the sum now totals around $50 million, far higher than they were originally told. With the investment team finally in place, he said, some are questioning, even rejecting, the MLS price tag. "We're not going to pay so much," Cooper said. He said some are pushing to start looking at another association, United Soccer Leagues, a lower-bracket group with several dozen teams across the country, including the St. Louis Lions. Cooper said USL is an option if the MLS fees prove too high. "If they're unreasonable with the price, we can go elsewhere," he said. That could happen as soon as this fall. St. Louis Soccer United plans to submit its plans to the league within the next few weeks, long before an Oct. 15 deadline. MLS officials have said they could announce a decision about two expansions - the league's 17th and 18th teams - next year before March. Portland, Ore.; Atlanta; Las Vegas; Montreal; Ottawa and Vancouver are also in the running, along with a second team in the New York City area. That six-month lag, however, puts the rest of the project in a major holding pattern. Cooper wants the stadium to sit amid a massive retail and residential complex totaling about 400 acres along I-255, from Horseshoe Lake Road to Interstate 55/70. Preliminary plans released earlier this month by Webster Groves, Mo., architects Suttle Mindlin show the complex radiating from Interstate 255 and Fairmont Avenue, an existing street that traverses from Eastport Plaza west over I-255 and south beyond Interstate 55/70. Most of the project would sit on corn and soybean fields, with a main entrance running south from Horseshoe Lake Road, forming a boulevard that divides the site's uses. Retail, a movie theater and the soccer stadium would sit to the east, with homes, a hotel and youth soccer complex to the west. Some residences would also rise near I-55/70. The project, called The Fields, would rely heavily on retail - around 1 million square feet in dozens of storefronts, including several spaces for big box stores, according to a site plan by East Alton-based Crossroads Development Group. Crossroads partner Jamey Berg said the company has marketed the project to numerous retailers, including last spring at a Las Vegas trade show, with positive response. But Berg also said they're holding back from a full push until an MLS agreement is inked. "We're standing ready as soon as MLS is ready," he said. Cooper said he's also anxious to roll out final plans. Asked whether it's the best time to invest in retail given the dire economic climate, Cooper admitted it was a worry, even though indications show the trend is ebbing up. By the time they start any construction, at least 24 months away, the economic picture may improve, Cooper said. "Everybody's concerned," he said. "But the good news is, we're not building today." So far no leases have been signed, he said. "We didn't want to jump the gun," Cooper said. "Now that we're close, we'll start that." Also cautious, he said, is his group of investors, whom Cooper will not reveal until the project starts. He said the roster includes four or five single investors based locally and internationally. The city is aware of the investor list, he said. "It's a good mix," said Cooper, who made millions in asbestos settlements through his East Alton firm, SimmonsCooper LLC. Despite the concerns, Cooper is bullish that MLS will grant St. Louis a team. He said the group has done everything the league wanted. "I don't know what else we can do," he said. If approved, the project still faces numerous approvals from the city and Madison County. The parcel, which includes unincorporated county land, is mostly farmland, save for six small homes. Cooper said the project will surround those properties, whose owners have rejected offers from the developer. Collinsville City Manager Robert Knabel said the city is looking forward to hearing from MLS. They're still confident the league will side with Cooper, Knabel said. "We're optimistic," he said. |