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Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Hometown on April 02, 2008, 06:37:19 am We had no idea just how serious Kathy Taylor was when she described herself as a CEO. Now we have a self-proclaimed Chief Executive Officer who wants to restyle City Hall into her corporate headquarters and restrict access by citizens.
The building and location were inappropriate to begin with. A major public investment -- Civic Center -- has been degraded. Now common folks aren't supposed to be able to move about City Hall. Check out this story in today's TulsaWorld: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080402_1_A1_hAcou02475 Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: sgrizzle on April 02, 2008, 07:05:16 am I think her suggestion is flawed but there is a valid issue. The design of the building doesn't allow for a single reception desk per floor like they use at the current city hall. I like the scanned badge idea (works pretty well in practice) but once they have it, let them roam free.
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: inteller on April 02, 2008, 07:12:46 am why, is she afraid someone will come in and gun her down? Now why would anyone want to do that?[^]
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: cannon_fodder on April 02, 2008, 07:15:51 am quote: No. Public access to public spaces should be as little restricted as possible. Once you know that I don't have a gun or other weapon I will go where I please to see my governing officials in my public space WITHOUT an escort. An escort requirement would certainly diminish the access to our government - if not totally then certainly with a greater degree of disconnect. Furthermore, if there is some greater degree of difficulty in public access to elected official or public services because of this move - it would have been just wonderful to consider that BEFORE MOVING CITY HALL. Public officials answer to the public. Public buildings are owned by and for the pubic. A public official in a public building should not increase restricted access to the public. The greater the disconnect the easier it is for them to perform business as usual as an elite ruling class and the harder it is for citizens to know what's going on. Maybe this is a bit of an over reaction to a simple procedure, but every step in the wrong direction counts. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: TulsaSooner on April 02, 2008, 07:46:19 am quote: Yep. And I don't know that the Mayor sat down and came up with this either. There does need to be something. Even in a public building you can't have people roaming arond these days, it just doesn't seem safe. And you definitely need to secure the floors that are occupied by private firms. I think the scanned DL (or some form of ID) and a temporary badge coupled with metal detectors would suffice. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Gaspar on April 02, 2008, 08:05:02 am I don't know if they have fixed the problems with that building, but I remember when it opened and Williams Energy was in there, I had a client that I had to go see frequently.
They would move meetings based on the time of day because in the morning one side of the building used to heat up with the sun, and then in the evening the other side would get hot. It felt like a giant greenhouse. It was nice in the winter, but in the summer it was overwhelming. They have 3 house sized AAON air-conditioners in a central floor (I forget witch one) that are specially designed to handle the cooling requirements of that building. We had a tour once. You could walk inside of the AC units, they are amazing. When I saw the press release about making that building LEED certified, I spit coffee all over my keyboard! Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: breitee on April 02, 2008, 08:09:55 am That is probably the ugliest building in Tulsa. Someone once called it a "dirty ice cube" and they were right on the money.
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: sgrizzle on April 02, 2008, 08:27:07 am quote: Feeling warm isn't a sign of inefficiency and can be the opposite. I find it interesting a building with little western exposure really got that hot in the evenings. The building is built with a curtain wall on the east side to circulate air from the top to the bottom (that hot air rising thing) and the glass allows viewing down out of the building but is highly tinted if you look horizontal and almost opaque if you're looking up (like at the sun). The ceilings on each floor are at an angle so sunlight can come in a light more central areas thus lowering the lighting needs. Everyone assumes a glass building means hot and inefficient. I worked for years in the black glass towers which didn't have energy efficient heating/cooling or fancy tinted windows and we did just fine. I would assume if sunlight or heat was an issue, someone would put in window blinds but I don't see any. P.S. I always heard "ant farm." Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Conan71 on April 02, 2008, 08:28:34 am The idea sounds like it needs some tweaking. I understand the frustration and insular image Christiansen is talking about, but this is and has become the norm in business and government alike. It sounds as if it would still be easier to get into City Hall than it is to go on site at Spirit Aerospace.
I haven't tried it, but I'm sure there's not exactly unfettered access to the Mayor's personal office as it is now and probably should not be in a city of close to 400,000 people. HT, were you living in San Francisco when Harvey Milk and George Moscone were killed? Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Breadburner on April 02, 2008, 08:30:07 am I think there is reason for concern but this is extreme.....
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: TeeDub on April 02, 2008, 08:35:27 am quote: Unfortunately this is the way of big government. You can't get into almost any building in DC without going thru metal detectors, showing your ID and having an appointment. (FCC, Department of Agriculture, and Senate buildings anyway.) Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Gaspar on April 02, 2008, 08:42:59 am quote: South West side got toasty! Much of your travel through the building takes place on the outside hallways. You had to put on your sunglasses to walk from cube-farm to cube-farm. It was hot blinding white light because of the way the glazing dispersed the sunlight. Rather than having to shade your eyes from a glaring sun, it's just bright everywhere! I'm not an architect, and I don't understand the mechanics of how this becomes an efficient design, but I do believe that comfort and energy efficiency should go hand in hand. It's been about 8 years, so they may have found a work-around for these problems. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: EricP on April 02, 2008, 08:48:48 am My post on the tulsa world comment thread:
"Those tenants in OTC will have people coming and going from their offices. Tell me why the city should determine whether or not they can let me get on an elevator and gain access to Deloitt if I want to meet with an accountant? " FYI, you won't find any Deloitte accountants in this building. Our floor is secure and there is no reason for the public to be here and we wouldn't be able to maintain our clients' information security otherwise. It's not that we're not friendly :) There's no reason for the public to be roaming around private office space, even the city's.. if you have a specific need to meet with someone that need will be met, and it sounds like there will be a public reception desk area built for public access anyway. The only reason you think this is an issue is because somebody told you it is. How often do you guys go down to city hall and roam around the offices? Can we take a vote? Get back to reality. :) They'll find the right mix between public access and private space and you can complain on comment threads to your heart's content. And as for the parking, they could probably set up another row of meters next to the building and that would cover it just fine. You can't expect to have acres and acres of surface parking downtown, we have ENOUGH of that (thanks TCC.) Have you ever tried to park in downtown chicago? You find a garage and pay $40. You're lucky it won't cost you that much here. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Renaissance on April 02, 2008, 09:30:08 am quote: Exactly--well put sir. This is just an excuse for folks to make a fuss, trump up issues of "class difference," and take the opportunity to piss on a Mayor they don't like. Not saying I like her, either, but this is a fuss over nothing. How can we expect city government to operate efficiently if every "concerned citizen" is free to wander the halls and nag everyone? Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: hoodlum on April 02, 2008, 10:54:33 am there are a lot of people, me included, who think that is one of the best buildings downtown.
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Conan71 on April 02, 2008, 11:27:20 am quote: Staubach & Co. seemed to agree... Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Gaspar on April 02, 2008, 11:34:33 am It's got an interesting design on the inside, but I think the outside is about as ugly as you can get.
Architecture is very subjective. I like organic, warm designs that incorporate the landscape and use natural materials, shapes and elements. Some folks like the Borg Cube design of this building with it's simple modern geometry. I can appreciate all types of design, but if I want to live or work somewhere, I'd rather it be more Earthly. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Hometown on April 02, 2008, 12:09:50 pm If the administration is worried that citizens might wander onto a private corporation's floor, what will they think about protesters at the entrance to the building?
This building would be appropriate for back offices. Executive offices and people who deal directly with the public should have been left at the classic old city hall in civic center. But after finding out that the new BOK Arena does not have any dedicated parking I'm about to conclude that Tulsa really has gone crazy and there's no accounting for anything she does. Yes, Conan, I was in SF when Moscone was assassinated. And I have been shocked by the lack of security in public buildings here but there is a smart way to do security and then there is Tulsa's way. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: RecycleMichael on April 02, 2008, 12:11:27 pm I like the fact that you can see in all the windows. I am for transparency in government.
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: inteller on April 02, 2008, 01:32:13 pm quote: that joke is old and tired. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: RecycleMichael on April 02, 2008, 02:07:31 pm Old and tired describes me well.
Recycling jokes is my right. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: TulsaSooner on April 02, 2008, 02:59:26 pm quote: Was she Mayor when the arena was proposed, Vision 2025 passed and the arena site selection was performed? Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: YoungTulsan on April 02, 2008, 03:36:32 pm quote: Accounting for parking would have put the proposed price tag higher. We were sold a $123 million arena that will realistically cost $200M+ when all is said and done. Brushing off the parking issue was just one more way to push the project through with a lower than realistic price tag. They probably expect there to be a demand for parking after the thing opens and people get irritated. Then, they'll float the proposal to fund parking structures. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Hometown on April 02, 2008, 04:17:06 pm quote: I was blaming that one on Tulsa not Taylor. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: PonderInc on April 02, 2008, 09:23:23 pm It's been several years since I was in One Tech Center, and I can't remember much about the floor layout (except they had cool "cafes" on each floor). However, I imagine that it might be cheaper to put a reception desk on each floor by the elevators than to pay people just to escort the general population around. (What do you do...take a number when the escort is busy? How many escorts do you need?) Every city department I've visited has a reception desk anyway...just locate them strategically by the elevators. If necessary, throw up a few walls to channel visitors to the appropriate reception area.
In the Williams Resource Center and Tower they have guys whose full-time job is to build new walls and conference rooms, and move cubicles around. It's like a giant lego/erector set. Can't imagine that this would not be possible in the more modern OTC. I have no problem with the public obtaining a security badge...but the escort thing is silly. Reminds me of bringing boys into the back of a sorority house. "Man on 1st!" At the same time, I'm sure that everyone at city hall has not forgotten the recent events in Kirkwood, MO. A bit more security is probably smart. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: EricP on April 03, 2008, 08:13:06 am quote: There is a reception desk at the main entrance to each floor off of the elevators. Not sure why they wouldn't just lock the back door and make people go through there if they had to, but they are probably worried about confused public banging on our door upstairs or something, then molesting the CIO somebody has a meeting with who is waiting to get let into our floor and asking him where to pay the water bill.. who knows. The business world can have some crazy requirements, it's not like people don't know this. Mixing the city with tenants = extra fun. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Hometown on April 03, 2008, 11:55:27 am You may recall there was a great deal of discussion about mixing private and city at the then proposed new city hall here at TulsaNow. It was obvious then that Taylor was h*** bent on getting the new building and so was the Tulsa World. Talk about twisting arms.
You would like to believe that the Tulsa World would have some foresight but I am afraid that a lot of the incompetence we associate with Tulsa can be blamed on the Tulsa World and their naked and often stupid agenda. Now if they can ever get Ramada Inn or some such operation to buy the old city hall you are going to find citizens dismayed when they locked out of civic center. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: PonderInc on April 03, 2008, 02:36:07 pm It's not uncommon for building security badges to allow access to certain floors but not others. I can't imagine that this is a showstopper.
Presumably there will be signs that say: 7th floor, Joe Blow, Inc. I think the average Tulsa citizen can figure out the difference between private and public offices. When I go to the eye doctor, I don't wander around the rectal clinic that's in the same building. I just look at the list in the lobby, figure out which floor/suite number I want, and head on up to my destination. (Just like in every other office building in the world.) Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: bokworker on April 03, 2008, 03:29:48 pm I thought the "escort" business was illegal..
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Double A on April 03, 2008, 07:48:10 pm I tried to warn you this was going to happen. I knew this greater public access sales pitch they were selling when conning the Council into this craptacular crystal castle was pure D B.S. and exactly the opposite of Da Mare's true intentions. Oh, but the red herring of security for the private tenants makes for such a lovely excuse for pulling this scam to install the Mare's toadies to keep tabs on all the comings and goings at city hall. Having to staff people just to escort people around City Hall kinda blows the whole "we're doing this to increase efficiency and provide greater public access" argument right out of the water. More bureaucracy is more like it.
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: patric on April 03, 2008, 09:56:15 pm What's the budget she has in mind for hiring all the escorts necessary?
...and this will be in lieu of what other city services we can barely afford? Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: TulsaSooner on April 04, 2008, 07:42:29 am Geez, people, I didn't understand that to say she was hiring people. If this plan went though, I'm guessing whomever the visitor was there to see would come down and get them and escore them to their cubicle or work area or whatever. There will not be people hired to do nothing but this. Sheesh.
Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: EricP on April 04, 2008, 08:52:44 am quote: No kidding... and they are converting the entire downstairs cafe into a public entrance where you will NOT have to be escorted around. I STILL do not see what the effing deal is. And you guys say that it is a CONVENIENT excuse that there is a private firm here. I'm sure we are a thorn in the city's donkey, but we have very tight security and there is nothing we can do to change that. We're not here to make it convenient for someone to tighten security, we are here doing business. I can't believe how big a deal this is over nothing. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: godboko71 on April 04, 2008, 01:44:56 pm Normally an alerm'est I have no problem with this at all, sure the escort might be a pain in the butt at times, but it will keep he people that can't read or wont read signs from going to the wrong place, or for hiding and going to get that gun they hid the last time they snook into one of the offices.
Guess what, to talk to most of the people you have to have an appointment anyway, sure you can talk the the person at reception and get an appointment normally same day but you will have to wait in the reception areas until its your turn. Now there is an extra layer of security and everyone can sleep a little easier at night, truthfully I am amazed this didn't happen seven years ago or even 13 years ago. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Double A on April 04, 2008, 05:27:00 pm quote: So we will be taking people away from their real jobs to escort people around city hall? That will really increase productivity and efficiency. Queen Kathy is a consummate con artist. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: EricP on April 04, 2008, 06:29:16 pm quote: Oh my God, get over yourself. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: sgrizzle on April 04, 2008, 08:28:12 pm quote: POST OF THE WEEK I love how everyone gets so high strung over something a glorified security guard said. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: TulsaSooner on April 04, 2008, 11:39:22 pm quote: FYI - City employees, and employees in most offices, have moments that they are not nose to the grindstone. You heard it here first. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: custosnox on April 05, 2008, 11:49:59 am quote: you used the term productivity and efficiency in description of city workers? BLASPHEMY!!!!! Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: shadows on April 05, 2008, 02:06:09 pm Having been in the city hall many times checking on those FOI files I was never overrun with any large groups of sightseeing people. If information was needed it was easy to ask any city employee, with a cup of coffee in their hand, that was always in the halls coming back from or going to the the coffee shop..
Course the new city hall, with a coffee shop on each floor, may reduce the number of city employees in hallways available to direct those citizens who get lost looking for the new city hall among the private companies that also occupy the glass monstrosity. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: EricP on April 05, 2008, 06:36:14 pm quote: I also think it's popular to call the building such a MONSTROSITY too. Wow.. It's GLASS. How HIDEOUS! How dare they use GLASS! What with its transparency and all. lol. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Wrinkle on April 05, 2008, 08:45:32 pm We'll see more of this type of activity as her mayorness attempts to make this illogical conversion of an illsuited building to public use.
The voices will become louder and in larger numbers as people attempt to do business with the City, Inc. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Double A on April 06, 2008, 07:24:00 pm quote: Get a clue. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Double A on April 06, 2008, 07:25:24 pm quote: Precisely. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: bokworker on April 07, 2008, 08:19:20 am quote: It is Monday morning and I have just read the first post by "shadows" that i can actually understand... Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: sgrizzle on April 07, 2008, 09:08:17 am quote: It was an off day for him.. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Hometown on April 07, 2008, 11:49:07 am Is there anyone out there that knows how the city plans to handle public protests at the new City Hall?
I don't recall there being anything more than a narrow side walk at the front and side. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Townsend on April 07, 2008, 11:53:54 am quote: Sign to be posted on new city hall; "All public protests please go play in traffic." Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: inteller on April 07, 2008, 12:03:39 pm quote: actually, confining a lot of people to a smaller area will have a more dramatic effect. and having the protests over there in front of people who work instead of shuffled off to one side of town will be more effective. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Renaissance on April 07, 2008, 12:25:12 pm Since there are constantly protesters at City Hall . . .
oh wait. not. Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: TURobY on April 07, 2008, 12:41:57 pm quote: I think he shall protest that fact. [:P] Title: Taylor wants to restrict access to new City Hall Post by: Wilbur on May 30, 2008, 04:28:55 pm Got the $3 tour of the entire building today. Very nice. The amount of stuff left by Williams is amazing. All their furniture, flat panel tv/computer monitors, desks, chairs, shelving, art work, telephones, ........ The list goes on forever.
While access to the building will be restricted to certain floors, public access will be wide open to places like: an area to pay water bills, fines, or get licenses and permits. There will be security access (just like there is now) to the council chambers, meeting rooms, ....... And some floors will simply be off limits for free roaming. If you are going there to meet an employee, you will get access through escort. Sorry, it's the world we live in. |