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Title: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: PonderInc on March 21, 2008, 09:34:45 am Looks like the Tulsa Club owner is now facing fines equal to what he paid for the building... The guy paid $125,000 for this Tulsa landmark in 1997, and now owes $115,000 in fines. The guy is totally AWOL.
Quote from article: <font color="blue">"If Morony continues to accumulate fines, city officials will ask Mayor Kathy Taylor for a "Request For Action" that would lead to legal action against Morony, Adair said." </font id="blue"> Meanwhile, the Abundant Life owner is working on plans to redevelop the building and has avoided incurring any fines. Here's the whole article:Tulsa World Article (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20080321_1_A1_hTuls25141") Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TURobY on March 21, 2008, 10:13:31 am Maybe they could use the fines to pay for the streets? [:P] With the money that could be made from absentee landlords, we could pave our streets with gold.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on March 21, 2008, 07:51:32 pm I'm hoping the point of the fines is to justify putting a lien against, and then possibly seizing the building.
An yeah, I find results for "Carl J Moroney" but not Morony. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AVERAGE JOE on March 21, 2008, 08:01:58 pm quote: An incorrect assumption. The World simply reported on these two because they're the most prominent vacant buildings downtown. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: EricP on October 24, 2008, 08:06:43 am http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=9229709
It looks like the city may now have some authority to get this poor building away from this guy! Yay!! This is one foreclosure that can only be considered good. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on October 24, 2008, 08:44:15 am Good news!
Too bad they had to mar it up so much getting the graffiti off. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 24, 2008, 10:38:10 am I don't think anything will be done with the Abundant Life Building. I have a 1992 study that found asbestos in everything, including the floor tile. The city has "talked" about making it a super fund site to try to get federal funds for abatement and demolition, but my neighborhood wouldn't be too pleased to be next to one of those.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on October 24, 2008, 10:39:31 am quote:fixed? Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on October 24, 2008, 11:31:45 am quote: no what is too bad is that when it is foreclosed it will be placed in trust of the TDA which hasn't had a very good history lately with anything. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 24, 2008, 11:58:38 am ^ Yep, it's urban blight. The TDA should quickly tear it down and never offer it up for development. Gotta keep the status quo.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on October 24, 2008, 12:10:33 pm Government theft of personal property.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on October 24, 2008, 12:13:09 pm quote: True. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 24, 2008, 12:16:09 pm Not really "theft" since they've sent dozens of letters and notices telling the owner that there are pending legal proceedings and liens on the property.
Try not calling the IRS or the bank back when you owe them money. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on October 24, 2008, 12:30:03 pm it would make an excellent hotel to restore completely back the art deco interior instead of that faux art deco dreck Crown Plaza is trying to pull off in the lobby.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: PonderInc on October 27, 2008, 11:07:20 am I thought that if a building is placed in foreclosure, it would be sold at auction. Wouldn't that be true of the Tulsa Club building?
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on October 27, 2008, 11:18:41 am quote: So it should just sit and rot? The asbestos needs to be abated and the building torn down, period. That corridor along Boulder through Riverview/Uptown has alot of potential but not with that eyesore left standing. The Tulsa Club building, on the other hand, should be restored and turned into a boutique hotel as inteller suggests. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 27, 2008, 12:11:20 pm I agree. It needs to be taken care of but I'm afraid that it will be so expensive that no one will touch it. Personally I don't think creating a superfund site next to a residential neighborhood is the answer. First the issue of ownership needs to be resolved: Is the current owner interested/able in doing something with this parcel? Does their plan include abatement? Demolition? Rehabilitation? If they don't have any plans other than letting the property sit as is and deteriorate then it becomes a hazard to the people living around it (or walking past it).
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TURobY on October 27, 2008, 12:13:57 pm Abundant life would make a great movie theatre, if someone had the money.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on October 27, 2008, 12:25:27 pm quote: The owner of the AL building has actually been in touch with me recently about another property he owns in Hutchinson, Ks. which is also pretty much dormant. I don't have a clue what he thinks he's doing w/ these properties. AL needs to come down, it's a blight. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 27, 2008, 01:09:20 pm quote: If you don't mind asbestos in your popcorn. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TURobY on October 27, 2008, 01:17:01 pm quote: They did it in the 60's and 70's. They even put gold glitter in it. [:P] Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 27, 2008, 02:39:30 pm That's an interesting cocktail: popcorn with asbestos and gold glitter. Any option for fiber glass or sea gull poo?
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on October 27, 2008, 03:08:47 pm Asbestos is actually pretty harmless if you eat it, just don't inhale your popcorn and you should be fine. If not, there's always James Sokolove.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on October 27, 2008, 03:34:59 pm quote: I won't lie...I inhaled. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on October 27, 2008, 04:00:13 pm quote: That is true. The building should be sold at a Sherrif's auction. The proceeds of which go to pay off the liabilities first (city lien #1 since they are the foreclosing party) and the remainder to the property owner of record. Since he is awol that money would sit for a designated period of time (15 years I think) before it becomes public funds. ABSESTOS really isn't that big of a deal if you leave it alone. However, in a building requiring renovations that really isn't a possibility. One of those things, if you stir it up it becomes a problem. No quick answer here. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 28, 2008, 06:44:09 am Tulsa World (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=11&articleID=20081028_11_A9_TheTul160819") article on the Tulsa Club:
"The city will foreclose on the vacant downtown Tulsa Club building if the owner doesn't respond within 45 days to a $331,815 judgment ordered by a district court judge. On Friday, a Tulsa County judge awarded the city the default judgment against Carl Morony, who owns the building, for failure to remediate code issues plaguing the building. City Attorney Deirdre Dexter said that if Morony fails to respond, the city will foreclose on the lien against the property, which would allow the city to sell the building to recoup the judgment." Morony, of California, is the longtime owner of the 11-story Tulsa Club Building at 115 E. Fifth St. The property has been vacant for more than a decade. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: RecycleMichael on October 28, 2008, 07:52:08 am I think that TulsaNow should buy the building to use as our world headquarters.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on October 28, 2008, 08:05:28 am I'm sure we can have it for $331,816
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 28, 2008, 10:12:26 am quote: Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Steve on October 28, 2008, 10:18:07 am I pray that the Tulsa Club building eventually goes to an owner that will respect and restore it properly. It is one of the premier art deco gems of downtown Tulsa, and its loss would be tragic. Historic photos show the interiors were a riot of color and high style art deco design. Nothing else quite like it for the time in Tulsa. Of course it would take many millions to restore to original and probably will never happen, but lets hope the eventual owners will respect its past and preserve what is left.
The Chamber of Commerce ought to get on the bandwagon for this building. Design by architect Bruce Goff, the building not only was the home of the Tulsa Club, but also housed the Chamber of Commerce in the 1920s to the 1950s, when the Chamber moved to Boston Ave. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: YoungTulsan on October 28, 2008, 11:09:00 am Maybe it is just the facade/property rot, but I don't see how that Abundant Life building could be anything but a demo now.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 28, 2008, 02:03:54 pm I agree with you.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Steve on October 28, 2008, 02:17:21 pm quote: I sadly would tend to agree. The facade didn't always look so bad. I worked for 12 years for a local savings & loan that acquired the Abundant Life property through foreclosure back in the 1980s. They knew the thing was chock full of asbestos and would be expensive to clean. So to make a few bucks from it, they stripped all the marble off the exterior facade and sold it, then basically left the building to rot. That S&L went under, the remnants of it is now Arvest Bank. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: YoungTulsan on October 28, 2008, 02:20:53 pm Where's QuikTrip when you need them?
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TURobY on December 17, 2008, 09:38:43 pm City Moves To Foreclose on Vacant Tulsa Club Building (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081217_11_0_Thecit940950") - Tulsa World
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 18, 2008, 08:53:52 am City theft of private property.
I'll also note no progress on the Abundant Life building. Seems this LOCAL owner has spoken with city officials. Guess that's enough. Did they just not like the way the California guy was playing, or is taking outsiders' property the norm around here? Please don't repeat the trumped up failures and fines imposed on the current owner to steal his building. When's the auction? The City cannot simply take possession here. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: brunoflipper on December 18, 2008, 09:22:31 am i hope you are kidding...
try reading the article... it's not theft, it is a foreclosure due to a lien... the guy owes 300k+ in fines secondary to code violations... they foreclose -> sheriff's auction... that is how it'll work.. not everything is a gubmint conspiracy... Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Gold on December 18, 2008, 09:59:40 am +1
LOL. The internet . . . your source for people spouting about things they don't understand. This is a really good move by our city government. As things stand, the Tulsa Club is a hazard to the community. It is not properly cared for and is abused by lots of bad people. If there is a fire, you expect the fire department to put it out. If there is a gun fight near you, you hope the police can protect you. I really don't see how taking action on the Abundant Life building and the Tulsa Club is really any different. Both are hazards to our community. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on December 18, 2008, 12:13:38 pm So potentially the Tulsa Club could find a new owner that cares about it and wants to fix it up, or it could be bought at auction by another out of town absentee slum lord.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: rwarn17588 on December 18, 2008, 01:02:54 pm quote: When you own a building, you're required to comply with a municipality's codes. If you don't, the municipality can take action. This has been repeatedly supported by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Abundant Life owner has been given some leeway because he's making what appears to be a good-faith effort to do something. The Tulsa Club owner has been AWOL for what seems like forever. Big difference. Shorter version: Just because you own a building doesn't mean you can allow it to go to sh*t without repercussions. If you think it's theft, Wrinkle, you'd better call the cops. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 18, 2008, 01:17:54 pm What has the abundant life building owner done? It's been quite some time and it still looks like anus.
There's still plant life growing. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 18, 2008, 01:20:06 pm Well, and he has 2 years to challenge any action taken. As I understand it, he has been AWOL for at least that long. Another 2 years and they could literally steal the building and he could not object as to the new owner (could have an action against the city).
If they have done what they say - duly passed laws, notified him of the error, notified him of a failure to correct, fine him, more notice of fines, notice of arrears, notice of failure to comply with a court order, then threaten to take it away, then notice him when it will be taken away, and then take it and notice him of when the sale is... and still (s)he does nothing. I have very little sympathy. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Gold on December 18, 2008, 01:24:38 pm quote: Good point. I imagine there will be considerably more scrutiny this time around. It will be interesting to see what they come up with to keep that from happening again. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on December 18, 2008, 01:26:18 pm quote: hmm, last time I looked anuses weren't shaped like cubes with diamond bumps and trees growing out the top. sounds like you need to have that checked out.[}:)] Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TURobY on December 18, 2008, 01:30:02 pm quote: They put up a sturdier barrier around the entrance. I work in Mapco Plaza, and over the past couple of months, I've seen a couple of people walking around the building with clipboards and the such. I've even seen a City of Tulsa vehicle there talking with some other guys. I'm not sure if they are appraisers or what, but there have been people examining the building for some purpose or another. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 18, 2008, 01:46:37 pm quote: How many has your nose been in? I'm judging your expertise. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 18, 2008, 01:48:20 pm quote: Someone was scoring some home grown. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on December 18, 2008, 04:14:03 pm quote: i'm surrounded by them all day at work...and then I log on here......so I think I have a pretty good idea what they look like. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 18, 2008, 04:53:58 pm quote: Mirrored office walls? Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on December 18, 2008, 08:44:05 pm quote:nope, but nice try. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on December 18, 2008, 10:11:31 pm quote: HA! [:D] Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Kenosha on December 18, 2008, 10:40:54 pm Abundant Life:
http://freesearchitecture.com/Portfolio_In-Prog_Diamond.php (http://freesearchitecture.com/images/portfolio/in-progress/diamond/dia1.jpg) Diamond Building This reconstruction of a 6 story windowless building into an 12 story mixed use facility is expected to help revitalize an entire section of near-downtown Tulsa. The uses will include ground floor retail, office space from 2nd through 6th floors and well-appointed condominiums in the 7th through 12th floors. Materials include a rough rectangular limestone base and columns, metal trellises and sunscreens and preformed concrete panels. An iconic rooftop lookout platform is oriented towards the downtown skyline, and extends the roof garden that overlooks the neighboring Veterans Park, historic neighborhoods and the Arkansas River in the near distance. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dsjeffries on December 19, 2008, 12:18:31 am quote: I literally just oohed and ahhed. Doubling the size of the place and adding residential above office above retail? I like! Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Gold on December 19, 2008, 12:20:43 pm Wow. That would be awesome.
Now if they can catch the neighborhood graffiti artist and tear down the gulag apartments closer to 21st, all would be better. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on December 19, 2008, 05:35:53 pm I am gonna beat cannon to the punch... "I'll believe it when I see it."
Looks great though lol. [:)] Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on December 19, 2008, 08:27:19 pm First things first: Inteller and Townsend are cracking me up...but point is to Inteller
Next and more importantly re: The Abundant Life building. Really? Wow! The architecture firm is local (right down the street on Boston AAMOF) and the design is outstanding. But who is the person with the Cheddar to pull this off? It is going to take a big pile of money. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 20, 2008, 12:50:53 am Where is the update on the other 60 buildings on the "list"?
...or, is it only the Tulsa Club which draws interest? I got stuck on the fact they had to break into an empty building to discover code violations, which do not apply to unoccupied buildings. Existing provisions in law allow the City to both clean up and secure unoccupied/unkept buildings and bill the owner these costs, but the outright theft is government out of control. The new $1,000/day fine was built and applied specifically to do so. Did he, or did he not pay his Ad Valorem Taxes? If the City did clean the graffiti off the building and apply locks to prevent access, these costs are legally applied to the owner, and, if not paid, would be grounds for a lien on the property. That's it. They are not making us safer by the actions being applied. The intent is to get this building for next to nothing and use it for purposes of their own design. To delcare it need be 'functional' is overreaching government role. This deal makes me sick to my stomach. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: hello on December 20, 2008, 08:48:31 am quote: Me too! This would be awesome for my neighborhood. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on December 20, 2008, 10:14:34 am Is that a heli-pad on top or a shade for a roof top terrace?
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on December 20, 2008, 03:05:27 pm quote: This is the single most important building in Tulsa that is in danger of being lost. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 21, 2008, 01:20:08 pm quote: That is not the topic. Whether it is or is not is the single most important building could be debated, but it for sure is not in any current danger of being "lost". The topic is whether government can decide to take your property. First, fine the dickens out of you if they don't like what you're doing, then steal your building because you didn't pay the fines. All this in spite of existing provisions for handling any public safety concerns, which is all they should be concerned with on this building. They are literally stealing this building. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Red Arrow on December 21, 2008, 01:53:02 pm quote: But it's "for a good cause". Could a law (regulation?) be passed that buildings must be inhabitable or show progress that they are being made so? You probably cannot regulate that a building actually be inhabited but it may be possible to require that it could be. Retroactive is another subject. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: tshane250 on December 22, 2008, 09:04:50 am Personally, I am of the opinion that it is not your God given right to let your property fall into disrepair. And certainly not your God given right to negatively affect the value of your neighbor's property.
Edit: I love the idea for the Abundant Life Building. Though, I seriously doubt it will ever happen. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 22, 2008, 10:41:52 am quote: Didn't suggest it was. But, property rights are mentioned in our Constitution. So long as the property is not a public safety concern, nor negatively affecting surrounding properties (other than being just vacant), it should be left alone. But, even more significant are the existing provisions for dealing with such, which were totally ignored, replaced with new 'rules' and then used to steal the building from its current owner. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on December 22, 2008, 12:32:51 pm quote: Puhleeze. The owner had every opportunity. This is not the only property this man owns, it's just vacant so he wasn't willing to even secure the doors. It wasn't swiped out from under him, he let it go. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: tshane250 on December 22, 2008, 12:58:36 pm Ah, Wrinkle, I re-read your previous post and understand what you are getting at. From a purely legal stance I completely agree, but my inner urban revitalist hates to see this building go the way of the Dodo. Something similar recently happened in Sand Springs, where they used Eminent Domain to acquire property to redevelop. While I like the idea of improving a "blighted" area, I think using Eminent Domain is wrong in that case.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on December 23, 2008, 09:13:00 am Any more information about the Freese proposal for Abundant Life?? That is an ambitious project. Reminds me of a more contemporary Utica Place.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 23, 2008, 11:41:57 am quote: If you re-read the orginal TW story on this you'll note code officials had to break into this building initially. It was secured. Because some vandal managed to get in through an upper window or such (probably had to borrow the FD ladder) and paint graphiti isn't grounds to steal the building. As I stated, there are existing provisions for dealing with instances of just this sort and those were not used. What does it matter how much property the guy owns? Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: wordherder on December 23, 2008, 01:52:44 pm I've heard from several people (not city officials, mind you) that the owner of the Tulsa Club building has shown his face in Tulsa a few times over the past couple years, and he STILL hasn't paid a cent of his fines or done anything to spruce up or secure the building. Meanwhile he was cracking jokes about hiding from city officials.
If that doesn't tell you that he intended to do nothing with the building until it collapsed from neglect, I guess nothing will. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 23, 2008, 02:26:32 pm quote: Just starting rumors now as justification? His behavior has nothing whatsoever to do with the existing provisions for handling the problem, and which were not only ignored, new rules were put in place just to apply here. The building itself is in no danger of collapse or in being demolished today. Never has been. It was secured and when it became trespassed, there are provisions to make it secure again, to clean up public offenses and to recoupe the costs. None of which were used. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 23, 2008, 02:36:01 pm quote: The guy sounds shrewd enough that his intent may be to make his money back from the City when he files suit for the theft of his building. Grounds I suggest he has. Personally, I'd have Ms. Taylor on a witness stand trying to explain herself to the Judge and Jurors. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on December 28, 2008, 02:35:12 pm Well Wrinkle, sounds like Carl Morony listened to you. He has retained a lawyer and is seeking dismissal of the default judgement. I, for one, hope he has somemerit to his arguement and finds a way to restore the building or sell it to someone who can.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=2102304&db=Tulsa Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: mr.jaynes on December 28, 2008, 11:44:17 pm quote: All we need now is the Bat-Signal, and we're complete! Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on December 29, 2008, 09:54:26 am quote: Perhaps you cited the wrong link, but that one's for the City of Tulsa suing him to take his building because he hasn't paid the $1000/day fines. Even Ad Valorem deliquencies have a three-year right of redemption. Want to know why? It's so people have a chance when up against government hacks who want to steal your property. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 29, 2008, 10:21:33 am Wrinkle... that would be the case in which he would enter:
12/23/08: VERIFIED PETITION TO VACATE DEFAULT JUDGMENT AND BRIEF IN SUPPORT THEREOF ENTRY OF APPEARANCE (JASEN R CORNS ENTERS AS COUNSEL - COVERSHEET ATTACHED) / CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE He is seeking to have the default vacated. It is past 30 days so it is not automatic but with this amount it is certainly up to the judge. FWIW, he was mailed notice (to the tax address he is Required to keep on file) on 2 separate occasions, then notice was officially published, and then someone in his residence was personally served (and refused to give her last name). Then a default was filed and a copy of that mailed to him. After 30 days the default was granted and a copy of the judgment was mailed to him. All of that AFTER a year of fines, haggling, and trying to pester him into action. Now he suddenly acts like he doesn't know any of it was going on? I'm not buying it. If I was his attorney I'd make damn sure I got paid up front. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on December 29, 2008, 10:22:35 am quote: no, just scroll down and read. The default judgement was stayed, then they came back and filed a motion to dismiss the default judgement back on the 23rd. I'm not sure how they were able to file that so late, but whatever....the court system around here is really wonky. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 29, 2008, 10:27:44 am The default was not stayed... execution on the default was stayed. That is always the case. Also, you can file to vacate a default whenever you want. Whether it will be granted or not...
I was at the courthouse this morning, had I known I would love to see a copy of the petition to vacate and see why the 3 forms of service were not effective (mail, publish and personal). Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on January 05, 2009, 02:28:08 pm Found the filing for the vacation of the default. Seems there's logic to the request. If he in fact has a plan for now either selling or renovating the property why stop him? But more than that, why hasnt anyone else stepped up and rehabed other buildings in the area that are in just as desperate a need? I dont think its fair to target one or two properties when there are dozens in just as bad if not worse shape.
VERIFIED PETITION TO VACATE DEFAULT JUDGMENT AND BRIEF IN SUPPORT THEREOF Defendant C.J. Morony hereby petitions the Court, pursuant to 12 Okla. Stat. Ann. § 1031(2), for an Order vacating the Default Judgment entered against Defendant on October 24, 2008. In support, Defendant states as follows: 1. On October 24, 2008, this Court entered a Default Judgment in favor of the Plaintiff, the City Of Tulsa, and against the Defendant, C.J. Morony, for an amount not presently known by Defendant. 2. Defendant is a resident of California, and may properly be served in California. 3. Plaintiff has failed to obtain service upon Defendant other than by publication. Defendant has not been served with a summons in this action, and has never seen any publication of the summons. See Exhibit A, Affidavit of Carl Morony (December 19, 2008). Defendant first became aware of this action in December, 2008, when a friend notified him of a news article that appeared in the Tulsa World newspaper. 4. On October 23, 2008, one day prior to obtaining the Default Judgment, Plaintiff filed a purported proof of service upon a tenant of a property owned by Defendant. However, service upon a tenant is not effective service upon the property owner. 12 O.S. § 2004(C)(1). The Court should disregard this purported service. 5. On September 23, 2008, Plaintiff filed proof of service by publication. Where service was effected only by publication, the Court shall vacate a resulting default judgment upon the affidavit of the movant stating that the movant had no actual notice: A party against whom a default judgment or order has been rendered, without other service than by publication in a newspaper, may, at any time within three (3) years after the filing of the judgment or order, have the judgment or order set aside in the manner prescribed in Sections 1031.1 and 1033 of this title. Before the judgment or order is set aside, the applicant shall notify the adverse party of the intention to make an application and shall file a full answer to the petition, pay all costs if the court requires them to be paid, and satisfy the court by affidavit or other evidence that during the pendency of the action the applicant had no actual notice thereof in time to appear in court and make a defense. 6. Attached as Exhibit A is the Affidavit Of C.J. Morony, wherein Mr. Morony attests that he had no actual notice of these proceedings or have his opportunity to appear and make a defense. 7. The Plaintiff is using this Default Judgment in an attempt to obtain Defendant’s real property against the will of Defendant. On December 22, 2008, the Plaintiff filed a foreclosure action against Defendant. See City of Tulsa v. C.J. Morony, et al., Tulsa County District Court, CJ-2008-8939. It is fundamental that a citizen should not be denied his real property without the opportunity to be heard. See e.g. Okla. Const. Art. 2, § 7. 8. The Supreme Court of Oklahoma views default judgments with disfavor and has an affirmative policy of affording “every party to an action a fair opportunity to present his side of a cause.” Burroughs v. Bob Martin Corp., 536 P.2d 339, 342 (Okla.1975). As the Supreme Court has held: It is the policy of the law to afford every party to an action a fair opportunity to present his side of a cause..... [A]n order vacating judgment will not be disturbed on appeal unless it clearly appears that the trial court has abused its discretion. Such discretion should always be exercised to promote the ends of justice, and a much stronger showing of abuse of discretion must be made where a judgment has been set aside than where it has been refused. Midkiff v. Luckey, 1966 OK 49, 412 P.2d 175, 177 (emphasis added); see also, Pryor v. Mid-West Investigations & Process Serving, Inc., 2000 OK CIV APP 22, 999 P.2d 452, 453-455 (recognizing the discretion of the trial court to vacate a default judgment “to allow Defendant to have its day in court”); see also, Schepp v. Hess, 1989 OK 28, 770 P.2d 34. 9. The Court has the discretion to vacate this Default Judgment. Okla. Stat. Ann. tit. 12, § 1031.1(B); see also, Pryor, 999 P.2d at 453-455; Nguyen v. Kuzmicki, 2000 OK CIV APP 105, 12 P.3d 489, 490-91. WHEREFORE, Defendant requests that this Court vacate the Default Judgment of October 24, 2008, and allow Defendants to answer or otherwise respond to the Petition. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on January 05, 2009, 03:14:51 pm Maybe he will sell it to be able to pay the city back all of the fees he amassed.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on January 05, 2009, 06:52:30 pm Hopefully whoever gets it will try to restore it as much as possible and keep its deco heritage. It truly is one of Tulsas most important historic and deco treasures. I had seen this one pic of some columns inside the building once but didnt save it. Looked like they were a silver metal covered in a riot of deco designs. Stunning.
Here are a few pics I have found and enhanced a bit in photoshop so they can be seen better. None show those neat columns though. (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7563/tulsaclubdiningc0300btl4.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9536/tulsaclubc0290bml7.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3439/tulsaclubc0123bsq6.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7411/tulsaclubfbbk9.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3504/tulsaclubbarbershopft0.jpg) Sad to see this community let such an important treasure be torn up, ruined and vandalized. (http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9311/tulsaclubbyforgottentulsz1.jpg)by forgottentulsa on flikr Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: inteller on January 05, 2009, 08:13:00 pm i want to find that ****ing "bebop" and throw his/her donkey under a train.
That hack turd is responsible for most of the grafitti around tulsa. Nothing but a punk tagger....not a REAL artist. This town doesnt have any REAL grafitti artists. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: EricP on January 06, 2009, 08:31:57 am quote: Yeah, you know here and there I wouldn't mind some actual nice graffiti in place of those tags :P What's a brotha gotta do to get some real graffiti downtown? Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on January 06, 2009, 09:23:42 am quote: What about his guy? http://www.eratikone.com/ Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: groundhog on January 06, 2009, 09:54:34 am quote: DowntownNow: Thanks for posting this. Did you have to type it out yourself? If not, where did you find a copy that was in text format? Are you his attorney? Also, what makes you think that he has any "plan for now either selling or renovating the property"? I don't understand where you are getting this statement from as we've heard absolutely nothing from this non-resident owner regarding any plan for rehabbing or selling. Additionally, I think you are mistaken about your statement that no one else has stepped up and rehabbed other buildings in the area. You have to look no further than accross the shared alley to the Philtower (literally next door to the Tulsa Club) to see the siginificant mixed-use rehabilitation project that River City Development has recently completed. The Artist: Where did you find those wonderful pictures? Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on January 06, 2009, 10:24:41 am quote: Not even taking into account the importance of the Tulsa Club as a building. It is the single worst maintained building downtown. The “owner” has done nothing to protect or maintain the building. The Towercade building right across the street would be a good example of an empty but secured and cared for building. For years I parked at the Tulsa Auto Hotel and walked by the Tulsa Club building every day and the building was almost never secured. The homeless sleep in the building almost every night. As a comparison I never saw anyone inside the Towercade except for people doing maintenance to the building. Your statement that “there are dozens in just as bad if not worse shape” in the area is just plain false. There aren’t “dozens” of large empty buildings in all of downtown and none of them are maintained or secured as poorly as the Tulsa Club. That graffiti for example has been on the building for years now. We as a community have spend hundreds of millions of dollars to improve downtown, weather or not you agree with that expenditure, the appearance and condition of the Tulsa Club building harms that investment. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on January 06, 2009, 01:25:42 pm The pics are from the Beryl Ford collection. Sorry I should have put that on there.
Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: nathanm on January 06, 2009, 01:37:09 pm quote: Yep, plain tagging is stupid and ugly. If you're going to deface property, at least make it look good and prove you're not a moron. I've seen some pretty good looking graffiti in Fayetteville. You'd think Tulsa could do better on that front. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: wordherder on January 06, 2009, 03:15:26 pm For a while there was some goober who used really unattractive graffiti to protest what he/she saw as the destruction of downtown. So you're going to protest destruction... with destruction of your own? Nice work.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who wouldn't ming graffiti so much if it were halfway attractive. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on January 07, 2009, 01:10:19 pm quote: Just as weaselly as I suspected....probably posted notice on the front door of the place, mailed a certified copy to the same address and published in a "widely circulated local newspaper" for a week while never actually contacting the man. ...anything required to steal this property. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on January 07, 2009, 01:38:14 pm quote: Morony knew. They never served anything certified to him because he hid but he knew. They talked to people who represent him and he comes to Tulsa on a regular basis. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: PonderInc on January 07, 2009, 04:29:41 pm I've heard from someone who knows Moroney that he sleeps in the Sinclair Building (which he also owns) when he's in Tulsa. Always parks in the alley behind the building, and moves his van before business hours in the a.m. He definitely knows what's up, and is simply attempting to avoid a legal battle.
If you've ever wondered why no one has leased the former Ike's Chili location in the Sinclair Building at 5th and Main, it's b/c Moroney is known as a terrible landlord, and nobody wants to rent from him...despite the prime location and historic significance of the Sinclair Building. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on January 07, 2009, 10:11:49 pm Who or what this man is is not the point.
There's legal process involved here, which is strict. And, in this case, has been subverted to achieve a desired result, independent of all else. If they're wishing to steal a man's property, they at least need to follow the rules, even if they manipulate the rules to do so. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on January 10, 2009, 11:55:18 am quote: With the ground floor of the McFarlain scheduled to have retain soon it's important that the Ike's Chili location be occupied if we want to see activity in Bartlett square again. I would love to see a sidewalk cafe in that site, but I've checked the rents and they are ridiculous. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on January 10, 2009, 12:09:34 pm Urban Tulsa article on the Tulsa Club:
Urban Tulsa (http://"http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A25886") "A surprising feature a lot of people don't know about is the roof garden, which was sensational, and the parties up there were always great," Ball said. "It looked out over the Philcade [Towers] and the skyline to the east of downtown. It was really pretty glamorous, actually." The club also had a slumber room, gymnasium, squash courts, steam room, barber shop, lounge and two-story ballroom with art deco detailing, though many of the art deco features were lost during an earlier renovation. Ball also said the "skirt" of glass block and stone on the exterior of the ground floor was added during a renovation. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on February 25, 2009, 07:40:41 am TW reports an update on the Tulsa Club Building
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090225_11_A13_Theown451034 The owner of the vacant Tulsa Club building is looking for a buyer who will rehabilitate the downtown nuisance into a historically significant piece of property, a local broker said Tuesday. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on February 25, 2009, 08:27:13 am Yeah, he has allied himself with the Lofts@120 people (who are already on the city's good side) and traying to get 17x times what they originally paid while saying the building is in poor shape.
Also in the articles it states they have FOUR different leans on the property totaling around 4x the original purchase price. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on February 25, 2009, 11:59:19 am Wow Grizzle, such a broad statement. Allied himself with the 120 Loft people - you make that sound like a bad thing.
I seem to remember this board favoring the 120 Loft project and the approach the developers took getting our input. Sounds like they got the run around and beleive it so much they have a lawsuit going over the matter that hasnt been dismissed. Now you sound a little bitter about them. Don't forget these are the same people that brought about the Atlas Life Building's redevelopment into the new Courtyard Marriott - which by the way has started demo I hear and have observed from the back of the building, lot of debris in that one :) From reading the article, it appears these people that were associated with the 120 lofts are simply brokering the building. From the Journal Record, Cecilia Wilkins brokered the Atlas Life when it was a Kanbar property. That development is the first inner core private re-development effort in years, so when they say they "... want to facilitate action that makes something good happen for the building and the downtown area" I have to believe them. They haven't given any reason to not trust them. I, for one, am glad they have been able to persuade Mr. Morony into doing something, anything with the building. I drove by today and there were people securing more points on the building. And so what if Mr. Morony is asking a high price? We all know the building will bring whatever a buyer considers a fair market value, regardless of the asking price...thats the beauty of negotiation. I haven't heard that you, Grizzle, lined up to put up $125,000 over 10 years ago for the building when no one wanted anything to do with downtown or its revitalization. The article is right, at least Morony didn't bring the building down and turn it into a pay as you stay surface parking lot like so many others have so, I will give him some credit for that. Heck, he even tried for Vision2025 funds. I hate to see any building in the shape this is in, but that doesnt give anyone the right to criticize the man for making an investment and wanting a return on it. We all do that every day. If he gets that amount, wow, great for him...if he doesn't, he should still count himself lucky and go on. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on February 25, 2009, 01:13:37 pm I felt Sorry for Will and Cecilia but they never had a contract on the place. I ceased feeling sorry when instead of really trying for another project or moving along, they whined to every outlet possible about how TDA broke an agreement they never really had. Same reason I will never shop at Starship again, it's been years and they are still whining about being "forced" to move into a building 5 times the size of the old one.
The Wilkins are brokering for Moron-y like they did for Atlas Life. The Lofts@120 was a project that exceeded anything they had done to date and was very speculative. TDA may have fumbled on the delivery but they aren't villians. You can't criticize the man for his investment? If he really gave a rats ___ about preservation or his investment he would've secured and maintained the building like the city has been begging him to do for 10 years. You ever think maybe there is a reason EVERY tenant has left his other building at 5th & Main? I'm sure it was because he was just too good of a guy. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on February 25, 2009, 02:57:52 pm Grizzle, I don't think its for us to judge the merits of what they had and what they didn't have. Thats for the court and a jury to decide. It is surprising though that if they didnt have anything like you suggest, the case prolly would have been dismissed by now, so there is some potential validity to their arguement.
Again, while I too feel bad for what they had to go through, I don't blame them for bringing it to the attention of others. Just like ZigZag was bringing their complaints to the TDA board and now the Council is wanting to investigate. The Council saw fit to investigate and admonish the TDA for their role in the Wilkins' deal, so again, must have had some merit. All this from people more in the know than you or I with regards to information and therefore have a basis, unlike you, to formulate a finding. I don't know the specific backgrounds of the Wilkins, but I would assume that if they had the knowledge and ability to pull together both the hotel developer and the property owner and help those parties come to an understanding and make a development of that size happen, they were more than capable of developing the site they intended. All of this is a mute point however, I see nothing wrong with the Wilkins acting as the brokers on this building and pushing to find a buyer that has an abililty to turn this building around and make it viable again and wish them the best of luck. Grizzle, I suppose I could ask you what you have done personally to secure any downtown re-investment opportunities yourself? Brokered any deals? Developed any sites? Talked to anyone at all that can or has partnered or developed anything of significance or helps downtown revitalize? I think your shallowness for blatantly criticizing an individual through your clever use of "Moron-y" is laughable, small minded and weak considering you probably don't even know the man. Other developers may read these blogs and see the ridicule they may subject themselves to by persons such as yourself and never seek this group's support - which would go against everything I thought it was intended to promote. I don't know him as I suspect strongly that you dont. I have, however, spoken with a architectural tenant of his in the Sinclair and yes, one of the few. While the building isn't full, who cares? They seem quite comfortable in leasing the space, the lights are on, its heated and its secured. They even told me that one of the downtown restaurants was even looking to relocate there possibly. This architect also helped Morony with his Vision2025 request apparently, so it seems Morony made some effort. He also said that the Tulsa Club is virtually in the exact same condition on the interior as the day Morony bought it, even the Tulsa World had reported that the fixtures and valuables had been stripped and sold at auction two years prior to his purchase. The funny thing is we have never heard anything further of the 60+ other buildings the City apparently identified as being dilapidated or vacant in downtown. Nothing has happend on the Abundant Life Building - just cause someone throws you an exterior elevation (that quite honestly could have come from anywhere and not even been the building in question) you get a free pass from the fines? I simply honor the fact that Morony chose not to demolish his building, perhaps recognizing its historic and architectural value...whether for personal or financial means. He easy could have converted it to a parking lot years ago and avoided any of this. Would the hands have been out to offer to purchase the building then to prevent it? Prolly not given the times back then and downtown now just starting its revitalization. Imagine the problems he could have avoided by making it more of the asphalt jungle I suppose. In this case, you either have to take it or leave it, but at least the man's doing something now and there are others capable that are helping him...where were you? If the Wilkins pushed him to start in any direction, well then, good for them. At least they are trying. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on February 25, 2009, 03:07:05 pm Oh and I forgot, I suppose by your wisdom Grizzle, only developers that were born with the inate experience at birth, straight out of the womb, to re-develop an area should ever consider a development opportunity in Tulsa? That makes a lot of sense. I'd be willing to bet that 100% of the developers out there got their start on something else and progressed to bigger and better things...so tell me, what was so different with the 120 Lofts project and its backers again?
I think it was far more than mere speculation, especially in light of them reporting that they had secured a hotel developer for incorporation into their plot one the ballpark got announced. A lot more backup than I've heard from the Public Trust. I'd also be willing to bet that if they had secured that hotel, would have made financing a whole heck of a lot easier if not a done deal. But all of this prolly should be on another thread. If you want to discredit the Wilkins' efforts on bahalf of downtown revitalization, I think you're going to have to find a lot better ammunition and stop shooting blanks. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: PonderInc on February 25, 2009, 04:11:48 pm If Moroney will sell, and the building is saved / restored / revitalized, I'm happy. (In recent years, he's turned down valid offers from people with checkbooks in hand...but, if things have changed...great!)
B/c the building hasn't been safely secured, people have been doing drugs and everything else in there. I just don't want it to be the next architectual gem we lose b/c homeless people got cold and started a fire. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on February 25, 2009, 05:50:07 pm After all the back and forth earlier, I decided to stop by and see if those guys were still there at lunch...and they were. They were there to secure the access points that were available from the fire escape ladder. Seems those taggers and homeless were getting onto the Philtower parking garage's upper level and then stepping over onto the fire escape of the Tulsa Club and tearing down any boards that had been put up over openings on the roof. I went up to the top of the garage and its only a 1 foot step onto the fire escape. Not really sure how much more secure it can be made and I'd hate to see them drill into those original windows (besides, I think they are metal frame anyway)
I was a little dismayed at how some of the grafitti has been removed, looks like they took a sandblaster to the granite face...kinda screwed it up. Anyone know if this building is on the historic register? Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Wrinkle on February 25, 2009, 11:03:34 pm ....less than $28/S.F.
In 1990, a steel-reinforced concrete structured building was costing $125/S.F. Today, that same building would be over $200/S.F. Starting with the structure and exterior wall and spending $100/S.F. to remodel would get to 1990's pricing. Those who suggest his price is too high either doesn't have a clue or understands well enough to know the value of misdirection, and may even have a real interest. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on February 26, 2009, 10:04:56 am quote: Too bad he didn't secure it 10 years ago. Title: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownNow on February 26, 2009, 10:49:24 am I guess I should have clarified...they were there re-securing the access points, the City had asked them too apparently and it was some big push to do. I guess people (homeless and taggers) were getting into the Philtower garage, going to the roof and stepping over onto the fire escape then breaking the windows or the boards off of them. I went up there, most of the windows seemed to be metal frame and had what looked like chicken wire inside the glass panes...be hard to get through but I guess if you want to bad enough...
They said that there were two openings on the roof they were fixing too. I can only guess they were going up the fire escape to the roof and getting in that way. Hopefully this will keep them out but if they are persistent... I can't believe the police dont know who this 'BeBop' 'Ozone' and others are, espceially since I see their stuff all over town. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dsjeffries on May 22, 2009, 02:33:42 pm Does anyone have an update on this? It would be an exciting project... if it happens.
Abundant Life: http://freesearchitecture.com/Portfolio_In-Prog_Diamond.php (http://freesearchitecture.com/images/portfolio/in-progress/diamond/dia1.jpg) Diamond Building This reconstruction of a 6 story windowless building into an 12 story mixed use facility is expected to help revitalize an entire section of near-downtown Tulsa. The uses will include ground floor retail, office space from 2nd through 6th floors and well-appointed condominiums in the 7th through 12th floors. Materials include a rough rectangular limestone base and columns, metal trellises and sunscreens and preformed concrete panels. An iconic rooftop lookout platform is oriented towards the downtown skyline, and extends the roof garden that overlooks the neighboring Veterans Park, historic neighborhoods and the Arkansas River in the near distance. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on May 22, 2009, 02:40:11 pm Does anyone have an update on this? It would be an exciting project... if it happens. Only update I've got is it still looks like crap and I think the building owner is blowing a large quantity of smoke. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on May 22, 2009, 02:45:52 pm I spoke with someone involved with the project, they said it is still moving along slowly. I did not prod for details or anything as I identified myself only as an interested party (no stake in the game). But the project isn't dead.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dsjeffries on May 22, 2009, 02:53:15 pm I was reminded of the project when I walked past it this afternoon, and the though occurred to me that an Alamo Draft House would be great for that building, since it has a 1,500 seat auditorium.
And what a great transformation--Oral Roberts' Holy Palace filled with alcohol ;) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on May 22, 2009, 02:54:41 pm I was reminded of the project when I walked past it this afternoon, and the though occurred to me that an Alamo Draft House would be great for that building, since it has a 1,500 seat auditorium. And what a great transformation--Oral Roberts' Holy Palace filled with alcohol ;) GENIUS. On another note the old Ridgeway's building is coming along nicely. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Gold on May 22, 2009, 03:08:38 pm Does anyone have an update on this? It would be an exciting project... if it happens. I've seen this recent alternate model for that project: (http://yannaccone.com/milestogo/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/pieinthesky.jpg) The pie is full of asbestos! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TURobY on May 22, 2009, 07:15:25 pm I spoke with someone involved with the project, they said it is still moving along slowly. I did not prod for details or anything as I identified myself only as an interested party (no stake in the game). But the project isn't dead. Glad to hear it. I see it every time I am walking back to my cubicle, so I'm always thinking up fun things I could do to the building. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on May 22, 2009, 09:02:14 pm GENIUS. On another note the old Ridgeway's building is coming along nicely. I never expectd they would paint the whole building black (or almost black) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on June 26, 2009, 03:00:57 pm Just kicking this back up to ask if there's any new info about the Club building or Abundant life.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on June 27, 2009, 11:19:13 am No but I did talk to Wil Wilkins who is the acting realtor/broker for the Tulsa Club and Sinclair buildings (both owned by the same guy) and the guy really just wants to sell both buildings as a whole and has no interest in redeveloping, fixing, or leasing.
He has two cases for the Tulsa Club currently running through the courts: Nuisance Abatement (http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=2102304&db=Tulsa) Foreclosure (http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=2173430&db=Tulsa) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Fiend on July 01, 2009, 04:38:58 pm I took a large amount of photos on the inside of the Tulsa club building. You can see all of them on www.abandonedok.com. There is a post on the main page for the Tulsa Club along with history and old photos of the place. I will take photos of the inside of the abundant life building soon too.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: MacGyver on July 01, 2009, 08:38:25 pm ... I will take photos of the inside of the abundant life building soon too. Nice pictures of the Tulsa Club and posts on the Ozark forum. If you go to the AL building, wear a mask. MG Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Fiend on July 02, 2009, 07:54:30 am Thanks for the heads up, I figured I might need a mask....
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on August 21, 2009, 01:28:25 pm I'm afraid the only updates I've got are:
as of today they both still look like crap. Anyone else? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on August 21, 2009, 02:02:18 pm Yep. Look like crap.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on March 16, 2011, 12:42:06 pm So I drove by the Abundant Life building today and thought of two things.
1. My disgust 2. this thread. Anyone hear anything recently? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on March 16, 2011, 02:11:00 pm I think it needs to meet the wrecking ball. A parking lot is better than that eyesore, and at least holds the promise of being redeveloped in the future. Boulder would be perfect for 2-3 story townhomes. Back in the day it looked like Cheyenne and Carson do now with large homes facing the street...
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on March 16, 2011, 02:12:48 pm Back in the day it looked like Cheyenne and Carson do now with large homes facing the street... I know it. I've seen the pictures. Thanks Oral. (place frowny face flippin' the bird here) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on March 16, 2011, 02:26:50 pm I know it. I've seen the pictures. Thanks Oral. (place frowny face flippin' the bird here) Very sad...this was Boulder in area of the Abundant Life building: (http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/p15020coll1&CISOPTR=2982&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%22boulder%22&REC=11&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0) And this was at 18th & Main by Boulder (now Veterans) Park where there is a parking lot now: (http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/p15020coll1&CISOPTR=2979&DMSCALE=75.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%22boulder%22&REC=14&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0) The area is perfect for medium density residential, and in a better location than any of the other residential areas in and around downtown due to its proximity to midtown and the river.. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on March 17, 2011, 10:53:27 am wow, how could anyone tear that down ^
I wonder if we'll hear that once the ALB is gone? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on March 17, 2011, 11:53:49 am wow, how could anyone tear that down ^ I wonder if we'll hear that once the ALB is gone? Because developers in this town have a short attention span. As an alternate, we could have land sprawl like OKC instead. Not sure which is worse. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Teatownclown on March 17, 2011, 01:19:47 pm Developers? We had a commission form of government that was beholden to the bankers, investors, and opportunists. There's similar structure's just east of there that remain but not in good shape. Many years later, the 2300 apartment complex served the affluent. IT needs an exterior face lift. But there's not much chance of that because at the time it was built the code no doubt left it to some committee which later went away. Time marches on.
I think we have land sprawl here. It's called the burbs. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on March 17, 2011, 01:23:22 pm Developers? We had a commission form of government that was beholden to the bankers, investors, and opportunists. There's similar structure's just east of there that remain but not in good shape. Many years later, the 2300 apartment complex served the affluent. IT needs an exterior face lift. But there's not much chance of that because at the time it was built the code no doubt left it to some committee which later went away. Time marches on. I think we have land sprawl here. It's called the burbs. But not on near the scale of OK Shitty, would you agree? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on March 17, 2011, 02:24:11 pm But not on near the scale of OK Shitty, would you agree? Not even close, anywhere Tulsa is 20 minutes tops. I heard this once, but I forget the the contirbutor: "Oklahoma City is so flat and barren you can watch your dog run away all day". Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on March 17, 2011, 04:12:08 pm The 18th/21st & Boston area still has a lot of those apartment buildings. The area was once a dense residential neighborhoodand and can be again. It's a blank slate, just parking lots at 18th & Boulder/Main.
If there is any location in Tulsa that makes the most sense for new urban apartments and townhomes it's that area, IMO. There is an existing restaurant/nightlife district at 18th & Boston that is within walking distance. One of the nicest neighborhoods in the city is to the east and south (Maple Ridge), with another great neighborhood just to the west (Riverview). The riverfront is a few blocks away, downtown is just to the north, Cherry Street and Brookside are close by. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Red Arrow on March 17, 2011, 05:10:27 pm Not even close, anywhere Tulsa is 20 minutes tops. Certain times and corridors I still allow 30 to 40 min. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: custosnox on March 17, 2011, 06:47:35 pm Not even close, anywhere Tulsa is 20 minutes tops. I heard this once, but I forget the the contirbutor: "Oklahoma City is so flat and barren you can watch your dog run away all day". Leaving at a non-high-traffic time it takes me anywhere from 25-30 mins to get to work in the morning. Of course I do live several miles from the nearest highway, in virtually every direction, and I apparently managed to tick off a gypsy somewhere down the line that cursed me to hit 90% of all traffic lights red.Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on March 18, 2011, 08:13:44 am I apparently managed to tick off a gypsy somewhere down the line that cursed me to hit 90% of all traffic lights red. :D Of course you realize "gypsy" is now considered an ethnic slur. ::) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2011, 08:17:22 am Of course you realize "gypsy" is now considered an ethnic slur. http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/destinations/spain/gypsies.htm (http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/destinations/spain/gypsies.htm) Quote Both the English word "Gypsy" and its Spanish counterpart, gitano, come from the word "Egypt" — where Europeans used to think these nomadic people originated. Today, as we've come to understand that "Gypsies" actually came from India — and as the term "Gypsy" has acquired negative connotations — the preferred term is "Roma." After migrating from India in the 14th century, the Roma people settled mostly in the Muslim-occupied lands in the south (such as the Balkan Peninsula, then controlled by the Ottoman Turks). Under the Muslims, the Roma enjoyed relative tolerance. They were traditionally good with crafts and animals. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: custosnox on March 18, 2011, 09:52:55 am :D Might explain how I ticked em off thanOf course you realize "gypsy" is now considered an ethnic slur. ::) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on June 08, 2011, 02:30:49 pm So I drive by the abundant life building and I can't believe the transformation.
Has anyone else seen it lately? I'll get some pictures and post them as soon as I can. The weeds and trees on the roof? Even taller. sigh Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: tulsabug on June 10, 2011, 04:43:45 pm So I drive by the abundant life building and I can't believe the transformation. Has anyone else seen it lately? I'll get some pictures and post them as soon as I can. The weeds and trees on the roof? Even taller. sigh It needs to be torn down as does ORU. Nastynastynasty. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on February 14, 2012, 09:23:19 am After 30 years being vacant, downtown Tulsa building maybe revived
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120214_16_A1_CUTLIN801786 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120214_16_A1_CUTLIN801786) Quote The owner of a downtown building that has been vacant since the 1980s - and is uninhabitable because of loose asbestos - says he wants to turn the structure into high-end condominiums. "There is going to be nothing like it in Tulsa," said David Horton of David Horton Ministries. "We're talking about glass and steel and balconies like something you would see in Scottsdale," Ariz. The seven-story structure at 1720 S. Boulder Ave. has been vacant since the 1980s. Five years ago, it was included on a list of 69 vacant downtown buildings targeted for abatement through either rehabilitation or demolition. Today, the Abundant Life Building is still considered an open case by the city, with officials issuing the occasional abatement notice for tall grass or weeds. The structure, commonly known as the "Diamond Club," is unsuitable for habitation because of the asbestos. Still, Horton believes the building can be resurrected. "Our goal is to take the building down to the frame and kind of rebuild it," Horton said. "Our inspectors have said the steel in the building is better quality than you would buy today." The current vision for the building began to take shape in 2007 when Horton asked Brian Freese of Freese Architecture to work with him and a potential investor to come up with development plans. The deal fell through, but Freese was hooked on the building's potential. "He seemed to trust my instinct in terms of what I thought the building should be," Freese said of Horton. "I had recommended from the very beginning that it should be mixed use. It is a wonderful location for high-end condominiums." Freese's plan calls for up to 35 condominiums with large patios and great views. The ground floor of the building would have a double-high lobby with space for a restaurant and outdoor seating, plus other retail operations. "If I were to try and paint a picture, I would say think California modern," Freese said. "Interiors very open, very light-filled, very sleek, sophisticated, open. There is nothing like it right now." Built in 1957, the steel structure with a marble veneer was intended to serve as the world headquarters for Oral Roberts' ministries. But by the 1980s it was shuttered, and in 1997 David Horton Ministries purchased the building for $1.6 million. The idea then, Horton said, was to turn it into a mission training center. That never happened. "We bought the building just a couple, three years before 9/11," Horton said. "When that happened not only our ministry (but others) really suffered. "Renovating a building like that was just not possible. We really got stuck with it." Freese and Morton said they understand that real obstacles stand in the way of getting the project off the ground. For starters, they need an investor. Freese estimates the project would cost about $12 million. "We are not interested in bringing in just anybody with a lot of dough who consequently just makes it whatever they want it to be," he said. "We have a very strong vision for what this should be, and we're really wanting to stick with that." Freese said that even in the best of times, high-end condominiums in a mid-size city like Tulsa are a tough sell. But he's working with Horton for a reason - he believes that after all these years, and despite all the hurdles ahead, the project could work. "I am optimistic it will happen eventually," Freese said. "Because in my opinion this is, by far, the highest and best use for this property and its location with the amenities nearby." Dilapidated list In 2007, the city of Tulsa identified 69 vacant buildings in and around the Inner Dispersal Loop that needed to be rehabilitated or demolished. The city has closed its files on 65 of the 69 buildings because they were either rehabilitated by the owner or found not to meet the criteria for a dilapidated structure. "I can tell you from the city's standpoint, we have not had to demolish any structure within the IDL," said Kevin Cox, field supervisor for the city's Working in Neighborhoods department. "There was one that the property owner demolished." The Abundant Life Building, 1720 S. Boulder Ave., is one of the four buildings the city continues to monitor. "Other than the weeds and trash and the two and three times the building has been found unsecured (in the past year), it has not presented any issues," Cox said. "But I can tell you that the city would like to see the building rehabilitated." The other buildings still being monitored by the city include: 1416 E. 11th St.: A local investor is negotiating to purchase the property. The owner has stated his intention to rehabilitate the structure for commercial store fronts. 121 W. Fourth St.: The building, commonly known as the Coney Island Building, is tentatively scheduled to be demolished in March. 1320 S. Cheyenne Ave: An investor has made an offer to purchase this empty synagogue. To view a list of the original 69 buildings targeted by the city, go to tulsaworld.com/vacantbuildings Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120214_16_A1_CUTLIN801786 It still sounds like he's just making believe he's going to do something with it. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on February 14, 2012, 09:27:03 am After 30 years being vacant, downtown Tulsa building maybe revived http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120214_16_A1_CUTLIN801786 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120214_16_A1_CUTLIN801786) It still sounds like he's just making believe he's going to do something with it. Yes, this is the telling part: Quote Freese and Morton said they understand that real obstacles stand in the way of getting the project off the ground. For starters, they need an investor. Freese estimates the project would cost about $12 million Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on February 14, 2012, 09:40:58 am They should just be blunt. We need the Kaiser Foundation to help us build more condos for people who have almost as much money as Kaiser does. ;)
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on February 14, 2012, 09:41:12 am Maybe 900 foot Jay Seuss paid him a visit. Pastor Horton needs to appeal to his flock.
(http://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/jimmy-swaggart-crying.jpg?w=500) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on February 14, 2012, 09:43:08 am They should just be blunt. We need the Kaiser Foundation to help us build more condos for people who have almost as much money as Kaiser does. ;) $12M / 35 UNITS = $342,857.14 per UNIT Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on February 14, 2012, 09:44:50 am $12M / 35 UNITS = $342,857.14 per UNIT Figure on a Sager budget and the project will go north of $25 million after 10 years and the units will then go for $343,000 each in the foreclosure sale. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on February 14, 2012, 09:54:42 am Figure on a Sager budget and the project will go north of $25 million after 10 years and the units will then go for $343,000 each in the foreclosure sale. Agreed You would be hard pressed to find many single family dwellings in the Buena Vista platt of Riverview that are in this price range (and these are large houses). A quick glance at zillow puts the median single family dwelling price at around $200K. This building is not tall enough to present much of a view worth paying so much for...the condos would need to be beyond swanky and gate-protected. I wonder if this proposed development would encroach into the residential neighborhood to provide gated parking? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on February 14, 2012, 10:14:54 am $12 million for 35 units is probably abatement, reconfiguring and updating construction costs. May not even include profit. And one thing I learned about construction. Develop a best estimate number...then add 35% for unforeseen costs.
I love the idea that he is in love with the idea. Now, if he can simply create something that an urban dweller could reasonably afford, he's got something. A lot of people are unaware that those sleek contemporaries from back in the day, were actually much more affordable than traditional construction. They were smaller, lacking in storage and built quickly. Please, someone develop urban condo's that young people can afford. You're driving them into the suburbs. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Kenosha on February 14, 2012, 10:58:46 am 342,000 for a nice condo doesn't seem outrageous to me. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on February 14, 2012, 11:10:07 am I am happy for you. If that be true for others then it reinforces that I may simply be slipping into a denser plane of existence where the rest of you are just inanimate objects. That may be true in any regards.
By contrast, for the same price, I can buy a pretty nice two story Maple Ridge/Morningside/Sunset property, 3500ft, small yard, two car garage with rentable quarters and a nearby park. I can purchase in the nearby mid-town burbs and be king of the hood. I can still ride my bike to work, or Cherry Street and instead of condo fees, pay someone to do yard work. Just sayin'. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on February 14, 2012, 11:23:48 am I love downtown and wouldn't mind living in a downtown condo, but I enjoy having a yard and enjoy little home projects. Interestingly, I seem to have gone in the opposite direction of my peers in terms of income increasing along with ever bigger housing. I've gradually down-sized my living space and payment in the last 10 years even though my income has increased. I have no worries about job security, but I feel a whole lot more secure with a lower house payment.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on February 14, 2012, 12:03:35 pm Yes, that is a contra-behavior for most. And as someone pointed out on another thread, the downtown experience is as much about living in the nearby neighborhoods that surround downtown.
There seems to be a pretty stout premium for living in the downtown rather than nearby. Perhaps that is just the nature of the beast. I visited my son in OKC last week and he showed me the new home he and his pregnant wife are building in Moore. Ugh. Moore. They had wanted to live closer to downtown but couldn't find what they needed at the price they needed. The tipping point was ....school district. He got an acre of land adjacent to a farm pond, 4 br, 3baths, 3000 ft and a three car garage and a growing school system for less than what he would have had to pay for what they wanted in the city. I told him, congratulations, you are now a responsible adult. Suffer like the rest of us! I suspect that he will live there a few years then as his income increases and the kids are older he will move several more times. Very different from my path. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Red Arrow on February 14, 2012, 12:05:55 pm 342,000 for a nice condo doesn't seem outrageous to me. Just sayin'. $Acouplemillion for a small bizjet doesn't seem outrageous to me. It's still out of my price range. Just sayin'. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on February 14, 2012, 01:31:19 pm I hope this isn't the same Rev. David Horton, otherwise this project may be, uh, dead:
Quote David Gilmore Horton David Gilmore Horton born July 13, 1943 in New Orleans, passed away February 11, 2012 in Tulsa, OK. He spent many years reaching out to the lost in all walks of life helping them get a leg up in life and sharing Jesus with them. David is survived by wife Jeannine, daughter Lisa, son Chad, daughter-in-law Dana, son Todd, daughter-in-law Michelle, brother Robert, sisterin-law Sally and grandchildren Malia, Cole, Drew, Paige, Caleb, and Kerby. Funeral service to be held 10:30 a.m., Wednesday February 15, 2012 at The Church At Battle Creek Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. In lieu of flowers, donate in honor of David G. Horton, Adoption Fund at the Church at Battle Creek or American Heart Association. Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/ourlives/article.aspx?subjectid=426&articleid=20120214_Ob_obsl_8429922 Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on February 14, 2012, 01:34:50 pm I hope this isn't the same Rev. David Horton, otherwise this project may be, uh, dead: Well for the love of Pete. Jesus needs to let some damned one know what they're supposed to do with the old head quarters. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: nathanm on February 14, 2012, 02:44:16 pm I loved the part how he was aiming for something that would be right at home in Scottsdale. Way to aim high. ;)
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on February 14, 2012, 02:47:05 pm Well for the love of Pete. Jesus needs to let some damned one know what they're supposed to do with the old head quarters. If that was the same Horton, at least the 900 ft. version of Jesus allowed Oral an extended deadline to raise his money. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on February 14, 2012, 03:49:23 pm I hope this isn't the same Rev. David Horton, otherwise this project may be, uh, dead: The Rev. David Horton from the article has a wife named Cherié. The deceased David Horton is survived by wife Jeannine. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on February 14, 2012, 03:51:50 pm The Rev. David Horton from the article has a wife named Cherié. The deceased David Horton is survived by wife Jeannine. Ah, a polygamist. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on February 14, 2012, 04:32:55 pm The Rev. David Horton from the article has a wife named Cherié. The deceased David Horton is survived by wife Jeannine. Ahhh! Thanks for that! You have to admit, that was odd timing for the obit to be in the paper on the same day as the story on the AL building and that the deceased appears to have been a man of God. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on July 10, 2012, 10:44:57 am Tulsa Club building to be auctioned at sheriff's sale
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120710_11_0_Aftery645364 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120710_11_0_Aftery645364) (http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2012/20120710_tulsaclub777710.jpg) Quote After years of haggling with the owner of the Tulsa Club building over unpaid bills, the city of Tulsa filed papers Tuesday to put the historic building up for auction through a sheriff’s sale. Assistant City Attorney Bob Edmiston said the decision to sell the building was made after two more potential buyers informed him that talks with the owner of the building, California businessman C.J. Morony, had broken down. “So the desire to have a private sale, which would allow the city to work with the new owner for the reclamation of the building, has simply not been achieved,” Edmiston said. The sale is scheduled for Aug. 28. Once a favorite haunt for Tulsa’s movers and shakers, the 11-story building at 115 E. Fifth St. opened in 1925 to provide facilities for the Tulsa Club and the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce. The building has been vacant since 1994 and was declared a nuisance in late 2007 after a rash of code violations. It is now best known as a source of ire for the city, which first tried to get Morony to bring the structure to code. When that effort failed, the city headed to court to collect unpaid remedial civil penalties and improvement district assessments. With interest, Morony’s bill has now reach nearly $475,000. Read more on this story in Wednesday's Tulsa World. Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120710_11_0_Aftery645364 Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: godboko71 on July 10, 2012, 11:07:43 am Wish I had some cash on hand
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on July 10, 2012, 11:50:43 am Kickstarter? who's with me?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on July 10, 2012, 01:19:51 pm Please, please please new very nice post auction owners, please do not tear this beautiful Bruce Goff designed building down.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 10, 2012, 01:25:51 pm Why don’t we form a consortium of investors for this?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on July 10, 2012, 01:49:54 pm Why don’t we form a consortium of investors for this? I'm in for $100 Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: ZYX on July 10, 2012, 01:56:03 pm If this can be saved and turned into something useful by a developer, it would be one of the best things to happen downtown in a while. An eyesore removed and a historic building saved. Win-win.
If it is made a parking lot I will cry. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on July 10, 2012, 01:58:35 pm If this can be saved and turned into something useful by a developer, it would be one of the best things to happen downtown in a while. An eyesore removed and a historic building saved. Win-win. If it is made a parking lot I will cry. I will hold my expectations low just in case. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 10, 2012, 01:59:14 pm Now what happens if the bidding doesn’t exceed the amount of fines owed on it? Will the city waive any liens or will TDA end up with it and it sits fallow for another 10 years?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: ZYX on July 10, 2012, 02:00:11 pm I will hold my expectations low just in case. Sadly, as will I. As amazing as it would be to see this building saved, it may not be economically feasible. If it absolutely cannot be reclaimed, I hope that something amazing will take its place. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: ZYX on July 10, 2012, 02:01:17 pm Now what happens if the bidding doesn’t exceed the amount of fines owed on it? Will the city waive any liens or will TDA end up with it and it sits fallow for another 10 years? If the TDA takes possession I will give up all hope. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on July 10, 2012, 02:02:43 pm If it absolutely cannot be reclaimed, I hope that something amazing will take its place. I'm guessing 12 to 15 spaces at $75 to $90 a month. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: ZYX on July 10, 2012, 02:03:56 pm I'm guessing 12 to 15 spaces at $75 to $90 a month. Awesome!! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 10, 2012, 03:07:18 pm I'm guessing 12 to 15 spaces at $75 to $90 a month. Could be a great food truck court. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on July 10, 2012, 03:18:04 pm Could be a great food truck court. Irongate would make it too scary. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on July 10, 2012, 03:30:35 pm Irongate would make it too scary. I used to park in the old Tulsa Auto Hotel. Iron Gate always kept that interesting. With the new no new surface lots law and this going for auction with two buyers apparently already interested maybe there will be good news here. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 11, 2012, 09:54:34 am I used to park in the old Tulsa Auto Hotel. Iron Gate always kept that interesting. With the new no new surface lots law and this going for auction with two buyers apparently already interested maybe there will be good news here. I hope the Sniders are one of them considering they’ve got a track record of getting things done...so far. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Teatownclown on July 11, 2012, 10:44:42 am I hope the Sniders are one of them considering they’ve got a track record of getting things done ON THE CHEAP...so far. The Tulsa Club building must be totally gutted on the inside to be occupied. It's NOT cost effective. Be ready for disappointment all you day dreamers.Be more concerned about the air you breathe and the water you drink. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 11, 2012, 10:46:25 am The Tulsa Club building must be totally gutted on the inside to be occupied. It's NOT cost effective. Be ready for disappointment all you day dreamers. Be more concerned about the air you breathe and the water you drink. Same problem that the Mayo Hotel building had. Actually most of it had been gutted. "Paranoia runs deep, into your life it will creep" Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Teatownclown on July 11, 2012, 10:56:07 am Same problem that the Mayo Hotel building had. Actually most of it had been gutted. "Paranoia runs deep, into your life it will creep" That's a lie. The Mayo had been gutted, did not have poison everywhere, did not have a dated and unuseable pool in the basement, did not have too small of elevator shafts to meet code....the long list goes on. Conan, when did you become an expert on resurrecting real estate. Is there even a tenant in hand to help cover debt service? Tell us Conan. Is it going to be another mediocre hotel with pathetic management? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Teatownclown on July 11, 2012, 11:51:05 am Actually, there's a small hope for the old Tulsa Club. 8)
Here it is for all you who have no imagination while sitting around espousing vacuous political comments without ever offering solutions. :P Maybe another church welfare group, you know the one's who escape taxes, will buy it and get a wealthy 1%er to contribute $25-50 miilion (tax deduction) and convert the entire building to assisted living apartments and nursing facilities. (you know, a Ken Yazel wet dream :D)... This idea may not sit well with those of you who want it to be hip. :) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownDan on July 11, 2012, 12:35:56 pm I don't really care what becomes of the inside, I just want the building to not be torn down, to have the outside restored, and to be utilized for something. Anything. A church run assisted living center is fine.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 11, 2012, 12:51:43 pm That's a lie. The Mayo had been gutted, did not have poison everywhere, did not have a dated and unuseable pool in the basement, did not have too small of elevator shafts to meet code....the long list goes on. Conan, when did you become an expert on resurrecting real estate. Is there even a tenant in hand to help cover debt service? Tell us Conan. Is it going to be another mediocre hotel with pathetic management? Your’s is but one view. There’s plenty of other expert and more optimistic views on real estate in this town, Clown. At least two of them from the sounds of it. Pool issue is easy to fix, asbestos is not that expensive to remediate (I have projects with abatement quite often) and not sure what other poisons are in the building unless you are referring to the air wafting in from the refineries and the chloramine-laced tap water they will have when water service is restored. IIRC, there was a PCB issue with the Mayo. In some ways careless demo can cost a lot more than somewhat of a planned demo. I’ve not seen the inside of the Tulsa Club building since about 1988 or 1989, so I can’t really offer any more of a guess as to how difficult a reno will be than you can unless you’ve been inside lately. What’s your issue with the Sniders anyhow? There’s two buildings which would still be complete eyesores if not for them. If the Mayo were doing poorly, someone would be calling the note by now. Secondly, what’s your obsession with a retirement community downtown? That’s not exactly the demographic who is going to support a lot of street level retail and office space. I, for one, won’t be retiring downtown nor anywhere close to NE Oklahoma for that matter. :-* Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: rdj on July 11, 2012, 01:44:43 pm I can't answer why TTC is "obsessed" with assisted living downtown, but I can tell you it is quite the certainty it will happen. The most likely "developer" is a religious organization. Let's just hope they don't replicate everything about Montereau when they build the downtown version.
The Tulsa Club is in massive disrepair. From what I've seen and been told it will take deep pockets with a very, very, very long investment horizon or deep pockets that have no intention of being refilled from the project to complete a full remodel. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DTowner on July 11, 2012, 02:08:38 pm I can't answer why TTC is "obsessed" with assisted living downtown, but I can tell you it is quite the certainty it will happen. The most likely "developer" is a religious organization. Let's just hope they don't replicate everything about Montereau when they build the downtown version. The Tulsa Club is in massive disrepair. From what I've seen and been told it will take deep pockets with a very, very, very long investment horizon or deep pockets that have no intention of being refilled from the project to complete a full remodel. The idea of large of amounts of senior living centers downtown makes no sense to me on any level, but I doubt the Tulsa Club building survives as a for-profit venture - it is simply too far gone. This makes me so sad because my wedding reception (1992) and wife's class reunion (1993) were held there and it was still a great place - albeit, getting pretty worn. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: erfalf on July 12, 2012, 07:31:25 am If a church or old folks home kept the building standing, I'm alright with it. At this point in the game, the flashiest uses for buildings just aren't feasible yet. If Tulsa keeps it up, they will be eventually. And when that day comes, I hope that the Tulsa Club get's converted to condos (or something that you all think is cooler than what was previously mentioned). But if they tear it down now, that option goes away at any point in time.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Teatownclown on July 12, 2012, 12:49:08 pm This city needs to hire right to attract new users into these situations: http://www.businessinsider.com/there-are-real-estate-brokers-out-there-who-will-trade-sex-for-a-listing-2012-7
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on August 28, 2012, 10:30:43 am Well ain't this a grumble:
TW FB post: The Tulsa Club was not sold at auction as scheduled Tuesday after the company that owns the building declared bankruptcy. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on August 28, 2012, 10:53:17 am That Maroney is a D_O_O_SH.
From the Beryl Ford Collection (And DECO District FB page) Its a the Tulsa Club in cake form (http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/c13.0.403.403/p403x403/255426_356009414474209_406276908_n.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on August 28, 2012, 10:56:04 am Did anyone see that coming? Dang. Now everyone who ever did business with the guy can stake a claim on this asset.
The only thing that could complicate it more is if he dies and his heirs get involved. How's his health? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on August 28, 2012, 11:11:31 am Did anyone see that coming? Dang. Now everyone who ever did business with the guy can stake a claim on this asset. The only thing that could complicate it more is if he dies and his heirs get involved. How's his health? He also owned the Sinclair building at 5th and Main. I want this building to be contributing to downtown again, but it looks like that just became very complicated. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on August 28, 2012, 11:21:10 am One of the more literate TW commenters noted that this may be a fairly common stall tactic to remove the owner from any liability but that the foreclosure would continue once the value of the property is assessed as zero to negative. Transfer of properties before and during a bankruptcy are frowned on iirc. Any lawyers want to speculate?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on August 28, 2012, 12:20:16 pm One of the more literate TW commenters noted that this may be a fairly common stall tactic to remove the owner from any liability but that the foreclosure would continue once the value of the property is assessed as zero to negative. Transfer of properties before and during a bankruptcy are frowned on iirc. Any lawyers want to speculate? Frowned on? It’s generally considered fraud if it happens within 90 days of a BK being filed. That is if you are talking about a transfer of assets from one individual or entity to another to avoid it being declared an asset of the BK estate. I also believe any outright sale of a property cannot happen w/o the approval of the trustee once a BK has been filed. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on August 28, 2012, 01:12:53 pm I think its getting more and more likely that this building will not be saved.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on August 28, 2012, 02:38:44 pm another story:
Bankruptcy Filing Postpones Sale of Tulsa Club http://kwgs.com/post/bankruptcy-filing-postpones-sale-tulsa-club (http://kwgs.com/post/bankruptcy-filing-postpones-sale-tulsa-club) (http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201208/photo-21.JPG) Quote The vacant Tulsa Club building won’t be sold just yet—a scheduled sheriff’s sale auction of the property was canceled earlier today. That’s because its owner, C.J. Morony, transferred the property’s title to his company, Shamrock Asset Holdings LLC in Nevada, which then declared bankruptcy yesterday. David Dryer, Morony’s attorney, explained that his client is “attempting to preserve the equity in the building so that he can get time to communicate with some buyers that are looking at the building.” With the sheriff’s sale scheduled for today, he said, “there just was not enough time.” The City of Tulsa filed last month to sell the building due to code violations and unpaid assessments. City Attorney Bob Edmiston has said that potential buyers of the Tulsa Club building had complained that talks with Morony had broken down. But Dryer says Morony still hopes to sell the property privately. “The City took the steps that they thought were necessary and really put the pressure on my client to do something,” Dryer said, “so unfortunately we had to take the action we had to take.” Morony also owns the vacant Sinclair building. Dryer says a private sale of that property is still being negotiated. “We’re currently putting together an offer to the city to catch up on the (overdue) assessments (on the Sinclair),” Dryer said. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DTowner on August 28, 2012, 03:08:02 pm It is interesting that the article implies that Morony only recently transferred title to the Tulsa Club building to the entity that then filed bankruptcy. It will be interesting to see if that entity has any other assets or if it was created for this purpose.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Teatownclown on August 28, 2012, 03:17:30 pm Call Rex Watkinson and tell him to find another buyer....the bankruptcy court needs to unload it. The building has negative value so the court needs to throw some cash in with the
Stupid old building. Carltonplace, you da man. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on August 28, 2012, 03:35:34 pm (https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558457_356398724435278_653816375_n.jpg)
Per Tulsa Deco FB - Tulsa Club rooftop dining c1929. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on August 28, 2012, 03:41:30 pm Call Rex Watkinson and tell him to find another buyer....the bankruptcy court needs to unload it. The building has negative value so the court needs to throw some cash in with the Stupid old building. Carltonplace, you da man. Geez, the last thing I want is for this wonderful Bruce Goff original to be demolished. I want it to regain it place in Tulsa's pantheon and be a place I can visit. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 20, 2012, 09:07:38 am Tulsa fire crews find homeless man dead in old Oral Roberts University building's elevator shaft
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/tulsa-fire-crews-find-homeless-man-dead-in-old-oral-roberts-university-buildings-elevator-shaft (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/tulsa-fire-crews-find-homeless-man-dead-in-old-oral-roberts-university-buildings-elevator-shaft) Quote TULSA - A homeless man is dead following an accident at an abandoned building near downtown Tulsa. According to officials, it happened shortly after 5 on Thursday morning at the old Oral Roberts University Abundant Life Building at 17th and Boulder. Investigators told 2NEWS at the scene two homeless men got into an unlocked door in the rear of the multi-story building and one fell into an empty elevator shaft and died. His friend walked to a nearby convenience store and called 911. The men were apparently looking for shelter from the cold and wind. The building has been vacant for more than a decade. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on December 20, 2012, 09:32:13 am Tulsa fire crews find homeless man dead in old Oral Roberts University building's elevator shaft http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/tulsa-fire-crews-find-homeless-man-dead-in-old-oral-roberts-university-buildings-elevator-shaft (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/tulsa-fire-crews-find-homeless-man-dead-in-old-oral-roberts-university-buildings-elevator-shaft) That is terrible. It's time for the city to demand abatement on this property. I know this place probably can't burn to the ground, but it is a hazard as it is. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on January 16, 2013, 12:44:00 pm Another Tulsa Club Snag
http://kwgs.com/post/another-tulsa-club-snag (http://kwgs.com/post/another-tulsa-club-snag) (http://kwgs.com/sites/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201301/News%20625.jpg) Quote More problems for the troubled Tulsa Club! The city’s effort to sell the dilapidated downtown building has hit another snag. The building’s owner has filed for bankruptcy which puts the city’s efforts on hold. The building was yanked off a sheriff’s sale last year after another last minute legal maneuver. The building has been declared a public nuisance because of code violations and numerous fires. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on February 04, 2013, 01:43:15 pm Anyone else think this thread should've gone in an entirely different direction long ago?
It amazes me the Club building is getting closer to being surface parking and the Abundant Life is still standing and is killing people. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on February 27, 2013, 10:01:48 am Per Tulsa Preservation Commission FB post:
Guess who's coming to Auction? The Tulsa Club Building is rescheduled for Sheriff's Sale on April 16th at 10:00 am. We can't wait to see this beautiful Bruce Goff building rehabbed and back in action! Quote Art Deco Buildings in Tulsa Tulsa Club Building 115 East 5th Street Built: 1927 (http://www.tulsapreservationcommission.org/images/buildings/tulsaclub.jpg) This eleven-story building was designed by Bruce Goff. It was built through the joint effort of the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce and the Tulsa Club. The first five floors of the building were occupied by the Chamber and other business organizations while the top six floors and the roof garden were inhabited by the Tulsa Club. The Tulsa Club contained dormitory rooms on the sixth floor and a men’s lounge on the eighth floor. The club also had a gymnasium and barber shop. The club’s interior had Art Deco ornamentation including fireplace tiles. Built of Bedford stone, the original 5th Street entrance was designed with abstract detailing above the doorway. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on February 27, 2013, 12:24:38 pm Per Tulsa Preservation Commission FB post: Guess who's coming to Auction? The Tulsa Club Building is rescheduled for Sheriff's Sale on April 16th at 10:00 am. We can't wait to see this beautiful Bruce Goff building rehabbed and back in action! Anyone been inside lately? I wonder how much is still there? The fact that it had/has dormotories makes it seem a natural candidate for new living spaces. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on February 27, 2013, 01:14:58 pm I was in it a few years ago. Much original flooring, trim, and accent remains. However... much needs to be improved. Probably more original remaining in this building than was in the Mayo Hotel.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on February 27, 2013, 01:16:20 pm I was in it a few years ago. Much original flooring, trim, and accent remains. However... much needs to be improved. Probably more original remaining in this building than was in the Mayo Hotel. Good news. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DTowner on February 27, 2013, 02:26:50 pm Good news. Given the owner's history of playing the system, I wouldn't get too excited until the auction actually occurs. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: custosnox on February 27, 2013, 06:01:05 pm I knew they had gotten some photos from inside. This was from a couple of years ago, so there is no telling how much has deteriorated since then
http://www.abandonedok.com/tulsa-club-building/ Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on February 28, 2013, 11:07:03 am I knew they had gotten some photos from inside. This was from a couple of years ago, so there is no telling how much has deteriorated since then http://www.abandonedok.com/tulsa-club-building/ Oh wow. It is beautiful inside. I've never seen it...thanks for posting this. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 28, 2013, 07:50:07 pm What a beautiful building that was!
Reminds me of the old Rialto and Orpheum theaters downtown. By the time they were torn down, they were ragged a lot like this one. This actually looks worse... This kind of thing is exactly why I should win one of those hundred million dollar lotteries...I would start restoring that place. But then, there are thousands of places just like it.... A magnificent source of old lead paint. Just dissolve in some isopropyl alchohol, and I bet it could be recoated to look like new! Plus, a convenient place for kids to chew on some paint!! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on April 05, 2013, 01:52:32 pm This place is due to go up for Auction in two weeks (April 16th)
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on April 05, 2013, 07:26:41 pm This place is due to go up for Auction in two weeks (April 16th) Wonder what is actually going to happen lol. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on April 05, 2013, 08:43:24 pm Wonder what is actually going to happen lol. There are naysayers out there, but I do recall in 1991 when I first started working downtown that the Mayo Hotel was deemed beyond repair and an implosion was in it's future. We all see what it eventually became, so there is hope that a stripped and neglected building can be resurrected even after 10-20 years. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: davideinstein on April 06, 2013, 02:23:18 pm There are naysayers out there, but I do recall in 1991 when I first started working downtown that the Mayo Hotel was deemed beyond repair and an implosion was in it's future. We all see what it eventually became, so there is hope that a stripped and neglected building can be resurrected even after 10-20 years. Sometimes ya' gotta' Jim Valvano a building... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on April 07, 2013, 07:33:01 am There are naysayers out there, but I do recall in 1991 when I first started working downtown that the Mayo Hotel was deemed beyond repair and an implosion was in it's future. We all see what it eventually became, so there is hope that a stripped and neglected building can be resurrected even after 10-20 years. Oh, I am not saying it can't be saved, I really hope it will be, am however wondering if it will actually be sold this time. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on April 16, 2013, 08:09:37 am Auction is today
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on April 16, 2013, 08:14:49 am Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on April 16, 2013, 08:17:27 am Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on April 16, 2013, 08:55:40 am How much are you in for? I might be able to buy the building but I don't have the scratch to fix it. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Red Arrow on April 16, 2013, 09:03:23 am I might be able to buy the building but I don't have the scratch to fix it. Borrow it. :D Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: saintnicster on April 16, 2013, 10:49:18 am From the "Lost Tulsa" facebook page https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.544400445610336.1073741836.156939601023091&type=1
Quote The historic 1927 Tulsa Club building went up for public auction on April 16, 2013, and was purchased by local businessman Josh Barrett for $460K. It will be renovated as a mixed-use property, expected to be completed within 3 years. Good luck to Josh! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on April 16, 2013, 12:21:08 pm From the "Lost Tulsa" facebook page https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.544400445610336.1073741836.156939601023091&type=1 Good luck to Josh! This is great news. People will be living in the Club bldg before anyone is in the 1st street lofts Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on April 16, 2013, 12:51:27 pm This is great news. People will be living in the Club bldg before anyone is in the 1st street lofts Sager! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on April 16, 2013, 01:25:01 pm What do we know about Josh Barrett?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on April 16, 2013, 01:33:12 pm What do we know about Josh Barrett? As long as he doesn't have any interest in American Parking et al, I'm pleased with the change. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 16, 2013, 03:48:07 pm What do we know about Josh Barrett? Would it matter? Beyond a certain voyeuristic satisfaction of peering into previously unknown parts of his private life...and that is always fun!! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on April 16, 2013, 05:22:15 pm Would it matter? Beyond a certain voyeuristic satisfaction of peering into previously unknown parts of his private life...and that is always fun!! It would be nice to know if someone like a Snyder rather than a Sager is getting the property. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on April 17, 2013, 12:27:48 pm Have you ever met Sager? He's not Jesse James. Insightful, clever guy with a pragmatic attitude. Typical businessman mentality. I think a lot of stuff blamed on him is more legend than reality.
Though I agree, the reality is that the Tulsa Club building will probably be finished before Sager's lofts. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on April 17, 2013, 12:36:31 pm Have you ever met Sager? He's not Jesse James. Insightful, clever guy with a pragmatic attitude. Typical businessman mentality. I think a lot of stuff blamed on him is more legend than reality. Though I agree, the reality is that the Tulsa Club building will probably be finished before Sager's lofts. I've known Sager for over 20 years. He's stiffed a lot of people over the years, that's fact not legend. I know from personal experience when he owned Karmichaels back in the early 1990's. He doesn't have a typical businessman mentality. Typical businessmen are planners and know how to create and operate within a budget to stay out of trouble and to complete projects in a timely manner. His finances tend to be pretty binary as he's not a good planner and frequently his ideas and funding for those ideas are scattershot at best. I will say that he's sought after within the IDL when it comes to getting help for permitting and subcontractors. He's also a very good promoter of the Blue Dome. Nice guy, but I'd never get into a business deal with him ever again unless it was COD. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on April 17, 2013, 12:44:30 pm Typical businessman does not equate to good businessman.
I have heard the same things you mentioned said about quite a few well known, successful business people around town. But, you have direct experience with him and I yield to that. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on April 22, 2013, 11:42:34 am I heard some good news about the plans for the Tulsa Club over the weekend. The project manager has experience with restoring old properties. He told me that some of the club members had saved many of the fixtures from the building and have them in storage. The plan is to bring it back as close to original as possible.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on April 22, 2013, 12:21:15 pm I heard some good news about the plans for the Tulsa Club over the weekend. The project manager has experience with restoring old properties. He told me that some of the club members had saved many of the fixtures from the building and have them in storage. The plan is to bring it back as close to original as possible. That's wonderful. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on April 22, 2013, 12:35:06 pm I had noticed in some of the interior photos I had seen that there were some chunks of some of the original, ornate, art deco moulding lying around on the floorWould love to get a few pieces of that for the Tulsa Art Deco Museum if anyone has any connections. I could also use the pieces to reconstruct larger sections they could make plaster molds off of. Would be happy to do it for free.
Some of the moulding they used may have been from companies like "Decorators Supply Company" out of Chicago. I have one of the old catalogs and they still have many of the original molds that they used back then. Check out the Historic Catalog 124 pdf (first one on that page) and go to page 248 & 9 for instance. http://www.decoratorssupply.com/store/Main.aspx?html=historic-catalogs or the Art Deco Nouveau pdf below that... some of the items may not be listed as "art deco" but as "modernistic" Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on September 10, 2013, 09:54:25 am FB post from Tulsa Club:
Quote We are currently planning to develop the first floor as commercial space. Floors 2-8 as leased apartments. The ballroom and mezzanine on 9 and 10 as event space / restaurant, and a penthouse apartment on 11. The architecture and financing processes are just starting so this could change. The construction portion of the renovation should cost around $13 million and will take less than two years once construction begins. Our web site will be http://www.tulsaclub.com/ Thank you for your interest and support. - Josh Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on September 10, 2013, 11:37:56 am I walked by yesterday and noticed a glimmer of progress. They've replaced some of the boarded up 1st floor windows with boarded up windows painted to look like art-deco stained glass. There were also a couple of AEP trucks out front.. dunno if they were doing anything related to the bldg though.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on September 10, 2013, 05:15:18 pm I walked by yesterday and noticed a glimmer of progress. They've replaced some of the boarded up 1st floor windows with boarded up windows painted to look like art-deco stained glass. There were also a couple of AEP trucks out front.. dunno if they were doing anything related to the bldg though. I did those. :) The owner asked me if I could cover up the old plywood with something that looked nicer while they begin working on the interior and before any new glass doors and windows can go in. We came up with a simple, geometric "jazz age" metallic silver, gold and black, Art Deco design. I still have to do the panels for the east side of the building. We also found the old logo on some half burnt papers and I scanned that in and totally recreated a fresh digital image for him to use. Should have the logo printed up and placed on those panels here soon as well. From what I gather he is still getting engineers and such to come out and give him quotes and info and then architects will look at everything and also crunch the numbers and see what can be done. I am really hoping they can save the grand dining room with its balconies and private small dining areas, the kitchen, etc. but again, may be that the finances will only work if there can be x-number of units and those floors may need to be converted into loft spaces. I will use every ounce of persuasion I have to make sure that dining room is saved. Went in the other day and you could tell that if that dining room were refurbished and done right it would truly be the nicest dining spot in the city bar none. Only thing coming close would be the Mayo's Crystal Ballroom. On one wall you could see underneath some of the sheetrock that had been put up over the columns between the windows, and see a little of the stunning Art Deco peacock design underneath (why on earth would anyone cover something like that up in the first place?). The heads and body up near the top and then trailing down perhaps 30 feet, the peacock tail done in highly stylized Art Deco splendor. Imho, if there is anything that is to be saved of the interior, it has GOT to be that room. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: davideinstein on September 10, 2013, 06:16:02 pm I've seen a lot of action over there this week from JJ's. A lot of the workers come in early for a sandwich. Can't wait for this to have liveliness.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on September 10, 2013, 06:40:35 pm That would be a major win if this gets renovated as proposed. I am cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on September 11, 2013, 07:34:48 am I did those. :) The owner asked me if I could cover up the old plywood with something that looked nicer while they begin working on the interior and before any new glass doors and windows can go in. We came up with a simple, geometric "jazz age" metallic silver, gold and black, Art Deco design. I still have to do the panels for the east side of the building. We also found the old logo on some half burnt papers and I scanned that in and totally recreated a fresh digital image for him to use. Should have the logo printed up and placed on those panels here soon as well. From what I gather he is still getting engineers and such to come out and give him quotes and info and then architects will look at everything and also crunch the numbers and see what can be done. I am really hoping they can save the grand dining room with its balconies and private small dining areas, the kitchen, etc. but again, may be that the finances will only work if there can be x-number of units and those floors may need to be converted into loft spaces. I will use every ounce of persuasion I have to make sure that dining room is saved. Went in the other day and you could tell that if that dining room were refurbished and done right it would truly be the nicest dining spot in the city bar none. Only thing coming close would be the Mayo's Crystal Ballroom. On one wall you could see underneath some of the sheetrock that had been put up over the columns between the windows, and see a little of the stunning Art Deco peacock design underneath (why on earth would anyone cover something like that up in the first place?). The heads and body up near the top and then trailing down perhaps 30 feet, the peacock tail done in highly stylized Art Deco splendor. Imho, if there is anything that is to be saved of the interior, it has GOT to be that room. William - I sent you a private message but it doesn't show that I actually sent it. :-\ Can you check and let me know what you think? Thanks! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on September 18, 2013, 08:06:01 pm Obligatory Tulsa World article:
"Tulsa Club owner Josh Barrett vows to remake historic building" http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Tulsa_Club_owner_Josh_Barrett_vows_to_remake_historic/20130918_11_A1_ULNSha925027 Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on September 19, 2013, 07:23:34 am Josh Barrett came to the TulsaNow board meeting yesterday. Great guy.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on March 17, 2014, 11:42:04 am While I look forward to progress on the Tulsa Club building I'm still curious about the Abundant Life Building.
As I drive by it every day I've noticed more pieces have fallen off of it and the trees on the roof are getting bigger. I really wish I had something positive to post about the site/building but I don't. Anyone hear anything about the old Oral Roberts ministry building? Thanks Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on March 17, 2014, 02:09:57 pm While I look forward to progress on the Tulsa Club building I'm still curious about the Abundant Life Building. As I drive by it every day I've noticed more pieces have fallen off of it and the trees on the roof are getting bigger. I really wish I had something positive to post about the site/building but I don't. Anyone hear anything about the old Oral Roberts ministry building? Thanks Who actually owns it now? I know local architect Brian Freese has proposed turning this into condos, though I imagine it would have to be easier to just tear it down. If you look at the Beryl Ford photos that stretch of Boulder used to be lined with mansions similar to what is left of them on Cheyenne and Denver north of 18th. The clearing out of parts of downtown during Urban Renewal is often discussed but what happened in Riverview is just as bad. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on March 17, 2014, 02:20:02 pm Looks like Friese owns it or at least is the registered agent for it according to the Tulsa County Assessor web site.
“Boulder Green” gave a quit claim deed to "DCH Enterprises” on 12/27/12. The following day, DCH did a quit claim to “David Horton Ministries, Inc.” Curious if that’s a way to dodge property taxes or are churches exempt from property tax? Assuming it’s not exempt, taxes are almost $11K per year. That’s a lot to keep sinking into it with no activity going on. If anyone else cares to look it up, it’s parcel 15350-92-12-04690 http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TeeDub on March 17, 2014, 03:46:58 pm Curious if that’s a way to dodge property taxes or are churches exempt from property tax? Of course it's a tax dodge. Why should religions have to pay taxes? I think atheists should get a discount too. http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/05-tax-exemptions-of-religious-property.html Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on March 17, 2014, 06:44:50 pm Of course it's a tax dodge. Why should religions have to pay taxes? I think atheists should get a discount too. http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/05-tax-exemptions-of-religious-property.html Atheists don't believe in discounts. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 18, 2014, 11:23:36 am Had to find Abandoned Oklahoma website for pictures of Abundant Life, I couldn't remember if the building had any windows in it. Turns out it doesn't, so if someone were to repurpose the building they would have to almost strip it completely the skeleton and rebuild it. Probably cheaper to just tear it down and build new.
http://www.abandonedok.com/abundant-life-building/#/ (http://www.abandonedok.com/abundant-life-building/#/) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on March 18, 2014, 11:35:30 am When Jesus is in your building there is no need to see outside
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2014, 11:56:37 am When Jesus is in your building there is no need to see outside well unless it's the other Jesus... (http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/gallery/us_west/california/images/garden-grove_crystal-cathedral_interior_lg.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on March 18, 2014, 12:03:06 pm big greenhouse.
how much of the tithe goes to heat/cool that thing? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 18, 2014, 12:49:21 pm big greenhouse. how much of the tithe goes to heat/cool that thing? Probably as much as the cost for cleaning the windows. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: LeGenDz on March 18, 2014, 04:11:05 pm Who actually owns it now? I know local architect Brian Freese has proposed turning this into condos, though I imagine it would have to be easier to just tear it down. If you look at the Beryl Ford photos that stretch of Boulder used to be lined with mansions similar to what is left of them on Cheyenne and Denver north of 18th. The clearing out of parts of downtown during Urban Renewal is often discussed but what happened in Riverview is just as bad. Last I remember he said he was going to strip it down to the metal. Something about not being able to get the same strength steel now-a-days as already present in the original skeleton. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGuy on July 14, 2014, 08:51:34 am Tulsa Club back on the market, unfortunately it doesnt look like the redevelopment worked out for the current owner.
Anybody have any insight as to why? Asbestos cleanup? Hope someone can restore this gem of a Tulsa Building. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on July 14, 2014, 10:13:06 am I wonder if Brickhugger would be interested? They at least have experience with similar neglected buildings and a good track record, plus deep pockets.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on July 14, 2014, 10:15:12 am Very discouraging :(
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: tulsabink on July 14, 2014, 10:46:40 am This building must be saved somehow.....I no longer live in Tulsa. Moved to Dallas years ago when Tulsa was tearing everything down and the old fart, 'no taxes for Tulsa' crowd was in its ascendancy. Will this Bruce Goff masterpiece go the way of so many other outstanding Tulsa buildings? There seems to be an almost suicidal bent among certain Tulsans to eradicate anything historic. I didn't get it then and I certainly don't understand it now when almost every city in America, large and small is saving and re-purposing their downtowns. Hopefully, as others have suggested, BrickHugger may take it on.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 14, 2014, 10:56:31 am well unless it's the other Jesus... Crystal ComicBook Cathedral. Drove by that place one time when in Anaheim. Impressive, but it must cost about a billion dollars a month to keep cool... Yeah, I know it's in Garden Grove...it was on the way.... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on July 14, 2014, 11:11:50 am This building must be saved somehow.....I no longer live in Tulsa. Moved to Dallas years ago when Tulsa was tearing everything down and the old fart, 'no taxes for Tulsa' crowd was in its ascendancy. Will this Bruce Goff masterpiece go the way of so many other outstanding Tulsa buildings? There seems to be an almost suicidal bent among certain Tulsans to eradicate anything historic. I didn't get it then and I certainly don't understand it now when almost every city in America, large and small is saving and re-purposing their downtowns. Hopefully, as others have suggested, BrickHugger may take it on. The anti-tax thing here is maniacal. Even when a city down the pike shows how judiciously used taxation can improve your quality of life and give you more opportunity we continue to rationalize (we're prettier you know). Most of us don't mind additional property tax, sales tax etc. if its used to better our lives. Instead we have fees everywhere, increasing water/sewer rates, EMSA increases and still get poor services. However, we're politically pure conservative. God loves us best. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on July 23, 2014, 02:52:50 pm Meet the new owner... Same as the old owner? Tulsa Club for Sale for $1.35 million.
He bought it a couple years ago for $460k. Looked at some possibilities, decides his life is going in a different direction, and lists it for 3x what he paid. Not sure if this has anything to do with the recently announced TIF decisions that didn't include the Tulsa Club: http://m.tulsaworld.com/opinionhomepage2/tulsa-world-editorial-downtown-tax-abatements-created/article_f93c4c41-ba3b-5d48-9cbc-57e1fb3d88cc.html?mode=jqm BUT... At that price it sits for another decade. A year ago he was the high bidder at 1/3 that price. What has tripplee the value since? Another building that will sit with a ridiculous price on it. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on July 23, 2014, 03:10:40 pm He might as well have listed it for 1.35 billion.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on July 23, 2014, 03:43:14 pm What has tripplee the value since? window board treatments by our very own The Artist. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on July 23, 2014, 04:15:23 pm window board treatments by our very own The Artist. Hate to tell you... But those were scraped off. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on July 23, 2014, 05:35:31 pm Hate to tell you... But those were scraped off. Scraped off? As in scraped off the paint or ripped the boards off? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: davideinstein on July 23, 2014, 07:27:44 pm Sick of paper pushers ruining Downtown. Get these buildings alive or get the hell out.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on July 23, 2014, 11:00:17 pm Meet the new owner... Same as the old owner? Tulsa Club for Sale for $1.35 million. He bought it a couple years ago for $460k. Looked at some possibilities, decides his life is going in a different direction, and lists it for 3x what he paid. Not sure if this has anything to do with the recently announced TIF decisions that didn't include the Tulsa Club: http://m.tulsaworld.com/opinionhomepage2/tulsa-world-editorial-downtown-tax-abatements-created/article_f93c4c41-ba3b-5d48-9cbc-57e1fb3d88cc.html?mode=jqm BUT... At that price it sits for another decade. A year ago he was the high bidder at 1/3 that price. What has tripplee the value since? Another building that will sit with a ridiculous price on it. Jackass. I hope he’s got the money to pay the taxes and assessments for the next couple of decades. Hate to say it, but it’s probably more valuable as more surface parking for the churches to the east by the time economics meet reality. bucking shame. Send me his home address so I can toilet paper his trees. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on July 23, 2014, 11:27:26 pm Jackass. I hope he’s got the money to pay the taxes and assessments for the next couple of decades. Hate to say it, but it’s probably more valuable as more surface parking for the churches to the east by the time economics meet reality. bucking shame. Send me his home address so I can toilet paper his trees. A few results come up https://www.google.com/maps/@36.137,-95.976786,3a,75y,172.02h,91.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqE6VQ8igRk2kPCINYmlljA!2e0!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/2112+E+52nd+St,+Tulsa,+OK+74105/@36.087455,-95.961575,3a,90y,179.21h,73.79t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sX5YYdq_425myWamuM7trEA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b693134fd08643:0xc7e5d8f22f1b372c!6m1!1e1 Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on July 24, 2014, 06:41:28 am I know, lets get 10-15 mill from the next tax package and I will turn it into the Tulsa Art Deco Museum. I would use that money to gut what needed to be gutted (huge boilers and such in the basement bigger than a semi that will have to be cut down and taken out), fix the roof and elevators, and then get the first few floors and perhaps the ballroom finished out and have electrical/plumbing fixed in those and in such a way that the upper floors can be done later. Rent out some of the first floor for offices/retail and have some ground floor space for an entrance/gift shop for the museum, then use one floor to start and reserve another of the floors above that have some really large rooms as museum space, then rent out other spaces on one more floor for offices (total of 3 lower floors to finish out at first) and also bring the ballroom/main dining back to life. Then as income allows finish up another floor or two at a time to rent out as lofts (more expensive to do that way but do as much as we get money for in the initial stash). Eventually the museum could take up say like the second and third floors and part of the first, like the main entry and lobby and the main ballroom would serve as part of the attraction, and the retail (including a ground floor museum gift shop) and living/dining would be income to sustain the museum.
10-15mill, even 20, would be a bargain compared to what they were wanting for the OK Pop museum and we would be saving a historic building and have a way to eventually make the museum self-sustaining. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on July 24, 2014, 06:45:33 am Hate to tell you... But those were scraped off. Still there last time I walked by. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on July 28, 2014, 12:42:07 pm Still there last time I walked by. I saw them yesterday. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on July 28, 2014, 01:13:15 pm I must be thinking of the wrong building on the window dressing.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on July 28, 2014, 09:38:05 pm I must be thinking of the wrong building on the window dressing. I hope I am not about to be insulted. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on July 28, 2014, 10:18:36 pm I hope I am not about to be insulted. Let's check. What building were you thinking of, CF? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TheArtist on July 29, 2014, 08:22:36 am Let's check. What building were you thinking of, CF? lol Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Cats Cats Cats on July 29, 2014, 08:23:27 am Meet the new owner... Same as the old owner? Tulsa Club for Sale for $1.35 million. He bought it a couple years ago for $460k. Looked at some possibilities, decides his life is going in a different direction, and lists it for 3x what he paid. Not sure if this has anything to do with the recently announced TIF decisions that didn't include the Tulsa Club: http://m.tulsaworld.com/opinionhomepage2/tulsa-world-editorial-downtown-tax-abatements-created/article_f93c4c41-ba3b-5d48-9cbc-57e1fb3d88cc.html?mode=jqm BUT... At that price it sits for another decade. A year ago he was the high bidder at 1/3 that price. What has tripplee the value since? Another building that will sit with a ridiculous price on it. Oh gee.. This project isn't economically viable.. Better triple the price! The city needs to put a huge tax incentive package together to make this project fly. Lock property tax for 15 years? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: YoungTulsan on July 29, 2014, 04:35:53 pm The county should re-assess the property to 1.35 million and make him pay the taxes on that while it sits, then.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on July 29, 2014, 06:03:15 pm Let's check. What building were you thinking of, CF? Perhaps the former "119 Downtown (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.151241,-95.987575,3a,75y,303.83h,110.01t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sgCVZWIdv4b3eplhjoBBC-w!2e0)" project? It had "banners" / large-window-stickers / whatever-they're-called's in the ground-floor windows Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: saintnicster on August 18, 2014, 10:20:45 am Abundant Life, Tulsa Club buildings remain closed
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/abundant-life-tulsa-club-buildings-remain-closed/article_a5718efb-2c10-5aa2-9c73-60da2d7be9ed.html?mode=story Quote Not much has changed with the Tulsa Club and Abundant Life buildings: They remain shuttered, and they aren’t likely to open soon. But this much is different: The buildings are being kept up to city code enforcement standards — something that didn’t always happen in the past. Both buildings have come under new ownership in the last several years, and the new owners have taken steps to ensure that the buildings are secured and that potential code violations are addressed, city officials said. “The owner (of the Tulsa Club) has added lighting, stairwell railings and corrected deficiencies related to elevator doors and shafts. Combustibles have been cleared from the building,” said city spokeswoman Michelle Allen. “The owner has authorized city personnel to walk through the building to verify its condition, which will be scheduled in the near future.” Kevin Cox, field supervisor for the city’s Working in Neighborhoods Department, said the walk-through will give city officials a chance to make sure the improvements have been made and to identify any new issues that might have arisen. “The owner and his lawyer have been very cooperative,” Cox said. Josh Barret, president of Vespa Properties, purchased the Tulsa Club building, at 115 E. Fifth St., at a sheriff’s sale last year for $460,000. He had originally intended to repurpose the building into a combination of commercial, residential and event space at a cost of $15 million to $20 million. But last month, Kate Thorp, a real estate broker with NAI Petrous, confirmed that the building is on the market again with an asking price of $1.35 million. Thorp, speaking on behalf of Barrett, said an adjustment of strategy led to the sale. “Due to the personal milestones in the owner’s life, he’s decided to pursue more passive investments that don’t require as much time or direct involvement,” she said. Thorp said Barrett hopes to find a buyer who will carry on his desire to rehabilitate the building. Neither Thorp nor Barrett returned calls for comment. Meanwhile, redevelopment of the Abundant Life Building, 1720 S. Boulder Ave., is on hold as its new owners work through a legal claim on the property made by a former mortgage owner. “It is going to take a long time to get through this,” said Brian Freese, the architect on the project. Freese is a principal in Boulder Green LLC, which purchased the building from David Horton Ministries. The legal challenge was filed by another party. Freese said his original plans for the building — to turn it into luxury condominiums or a mixed-use development — remain the same. “At present, our development plans remain the same,” Freese said. “As soon as we have a clear title to the property, we will finish our design concept for luxury modern condominiums and ground floor retail and will seek investment partners.” The city has never considered demolishing the structures, in part because of the significant cost to do so, city officials have said. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on August 18, 2014, 01:38:51 pm I think this thread will be the longest living conversation on this forum. It will outlive all of us.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: saintnicster on August 19, 2014, 09:34:30 am I think this thread will be the longest living conversation on this forum. It will outlive all of us. It's this or "The American". Pretty stiff competition, there.Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on August 19, 2014, 10:49:53 am It's this or "The American". Pretty stiff competition, there. Tulsa Club will eventually be leveled. Nothing will ever become of the American 1st street lofts will happen before the American Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGuy on March 16, 2015, 10:03:43 am According to a post from Josh, seems someone was close to buying the Tulsa Club. Anybody know who it was or who else has submitted offers and their plans?
The sale of the Tulsa Club Building was set for March 2015. The buyer decided to exercise their option to not close on the sale and forgo part of their earnest money. Although this is obviously not what I wanted, I appreciate that the terms of the sale contract were followed. I am currently working on other qualified offers. I am very pleased to see other downtown projects moving forward. - Josh Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: PonderInc on August 17, 2015, 09:47:58 am I go past the Tulsa Club building almost every day. Admittedly, I'm usually on my bike or in a car going down Cincinnati, so I don't look up too much. Today, I was walking down 5th street and I was shocked. Has there been another fire recently, or has it been this bad for a while?
(http://www.accidentalurbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/image2-e1439826303737.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on August 17, 2015, 10:37:05 am more windows are knocked out every week it seems. Not sure if the current sales price takes the rapid dramatic deterioration into account.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Weatherdemon on August 17, 2015, 11:48:23 am I go past the Tulsa Club building almost every day. Admittedly, I'm usually on my bike or in a car going down Cincinnati, so I don't look up too much. Today, I was walking down 5th street and I was shocked. Has there been another fire recently, or has it been this bad for a while? (http://www.accidentalurbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/image2-e1439826303737.jpg) Quote Both buildings have come under new ownership in the last several years, and the new owners have taken steps to ensure that the buildings are secured and that potential code violations are addressed, city officials said. Doesn't look to secured to me. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on August 17, 2015, 08:32:50 pm My work faces the building. I was actually thinking it looked a little better.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on August 17, 2015, 11:11:02 pm Take heart though. The Mayo Hotel wasn’t in much better shape when Brickhugger got ahold of it.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on September 29, 2015, 08:29:06 pm Some actual good news.
The Ross Group purchases the Tulsa Club Building for $1.5 million. http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-club-building-sells-to-ross-group-for-million/article_7fef4942-65f7-5125-a2f1-27f012fb0eb6.html Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on September 30, 2015, 07:15:36 am I wonder why it is worth $1.1 million more now than it was a year and a half ago...
Good news though. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on September 30, 2015, 07:22:13 am Some actual good news. The Ross Group purchases the Tulsa Club Building for $1.5 million. http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-club-building-sells-to-ross-group-for-million/article_7fef4942-65f7-5125-a2f1-27f012fb0eb6.html Oh wow...this is good news. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on September 30, 2015, 09:07:04 am Some actual good news. The Ross Group purchases the Tulsa Club Building for $1.5 million. http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-club-building-sells-to-ross-group-for-million/article_7fef4942-65f7-5125-a2f1-27f012fb0eb6.html Go get ‘em William! Get that Art Deco museum installed on the bottom floor. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on September 30, 2015, 10:19:25 am Go get ‘em William! Get that Art Deco museum installed on the bottom floor. Perfect place for it, hopefully he can make it happen. I wonder what is planned for the upper floors, apartments? Great news. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DTowner on September 30, 2015, 01:08:24 pm This is great news. But wow, a million profit in a little over a year shows land speculation can be very profitable in downtown Tulsa.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: LeGenDz on September 30, 2015, 05:05:31 pm I wonder why it is worth $1.1 million more now than it was a year and a half ago... Good news though. It's bc of all that work they put into it this past year. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on October 01, 2015, 07:29:36 am It's bc of all that work they put into it this past year. Can't tell if sarcasm... I thought it was still sitting as a burned out shell? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on October 01, 2015, 07:40:05 am Can't tell if sarcasm... I thought it was still sitting as a burned out shell? According to the article "Barrett completed some restoration work on the building, including the repair of electric services, installation of temporary exit lights and the removal of 60 yards of debris. Additionally, Chris Lilly, a local architect, performed 3D scans of the building’s interior and exterior." Not sure if that's a million dollars worth of work, but that's probably the "work" Legendz was referring to. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BuiltRight on October 01, 2015, 11:41:55 am Has anybody heard what Ross Group is planning on doing with the building?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on October 01, 2015, 01:10:02 pm Has anybody heard what Ross Group is planning on doing with the building? No, but they are doing a lot of the construction and rehab work downtown. I have high confidence that whatever plans they develop, they will be able to complete. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on October 01, 2015, 03:23:16 pm Has anybody heard what Ross Group is planning on doing with the building? Not sit on it for two years. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on October 01, 2015, 03:29:09 pm No Sagers! No Sagers! No Sagers!
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/press-your-luck-whammy.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on October 01, 2015, 03:29:32 pm No Sagers! No Sagers! No Sagers! (https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/press-your-luck-whammy.jpg) Damn you, beat me to the obligatory Sager comment. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: PonderInc on October 01, 2015, 03:29:43 pm Dang, you beat me too!
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: LeGenDz on October 01, 2015, 04:30:26 pm Can't tell if sarcasm... I thought it was still sitting as a burned out shell? I was being sarcastic ;D Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: patric on October 01, 2015, 05:45:39 pm Congrats William!
http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/video-tulsa-landmark-sold-for-1-million/vDbtb5/ Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on October 02, 2015, 07:34:49 am Great interview William!
Also, glad to hear that the previous owner did a bunch of behind the scenes work on the building. Core work is expensive, but not pretty. Really optimistic now. TulsaNow should reach out to the Ross Group and get the scoop! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 02, 2015, 09:39:38 am Fingers crossed...!! (Hoping for good stuff there...)
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: rdj on October 02, 2015, 11:37:14 am Dream of another Mayo Hotel & Residences and your dream just might come true.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on October 05, 2015, 06:45:28 am That's a good dream. Can I dream that the Sinclair building will be turned into lofts with ground floor retail?
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on October 05, 2015, 09:02:43 am That's a good dream. Can I dream that the Sinclair building will be turned into lofts with ground floor retail? As soon as I win the lottery. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 17, 2015, 12:48:47 pm We all know the Tulsa Club building has moved toward something...just not sure what.
So the abundant life building...how's that going? Anyone know? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: sgrizzle on December 18, 2015, 08:17:46 pm We all know the Tulsa Club building has moved toward something...just not sure what. So the abundant life building...how's that going? Anyone know? The likelihood it burns down or falls over increases daily, and given the roof situation that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 21, 2015, 12:37:59 pm The likelihood it burns down or falls over increases daily, and given the roof situation that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I was hoping for a quicker demise than that Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: carltonplace on January 04, 2016, 02:17:24 pm I was hoping for a quicker demise than that Apparently its life is truly abundant Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on January 04, 2016, 02:22:11 pm Apparently its life is truly abundant A life covered in excrement. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on August 17, 2016, 03:16:52 pm Thank you Ross Group...again!!
Quote Tulsa Club building revitalization plan calls for boutique hotel, restaurant and retail space Photo gallery: 24 downtown development projects you should know about Tulsa-based Ross Group has laid out plans for a $24 million conversion of the long-empty and historic Tulsa Club building into a boutique hotel plus restaurant and retail space, documents show. The proposal for the building, 115 E. Fifth St., is pending the approval of incentives that include a six-year tax abatement totaling roughly $1.693 million, according to the Tulsa Development Authority. The TDA recently issued a resolution in support of the tax abatement application under provisions of the Tulsa County Local Development Act, which can grant tax relief in certain areas to stimulate reinvestment. The project calls for the structure to be historically renovated to house 98 boutique hotel rooms on floors 1 through 8, restaurant and retail on the 1st floor (6,800 square feet), and restaurant and bar space on the 11th floor (5,400 square feet), documents show. The hotel rooms would be managed by Promise Hotels under Hilton's Curio brand. Under the renovation, the ballroom on the ninth floor also would be restored. Federal and state historic tax credits are being sought for the renovation, records indicate. Reached via email, Ross Group President and CEO Warren Ross to the Tulsa World, "It is premature to make a statement regarding the potential development." Ross Group purchased the building, which has sat vacant for 22 years, for $1.5 million in September. Among the oldest structures in downtown Tulsa, the 92,220-square-foot, 11-story building was constructed in 1927 as a joint venture between the Tulsa Club and the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce. Architect Bruce Goff designed the Zig-Zag Art Deco structure. The Chamber of Commerce occupied the first five floors for 25 years, and the Tulsa Club filled the upper six with dining halls, dormitories, a gymnasium, a barber shop, and various lounges and libraries. The top floor housed the Sky Terrace, which was used for luncheons and seated about 100 people, and the building was capped with a rooftop garden. The Tulsa Club folded in 1994, and the building fell into disrepair. C.J. Moroney, a California investor, purchased the building three years later. After dozens of break-ins and multiple fires, the city of Tulsa eventually targeted the building as a public nuisance and, at the start of 2008, began fining Moroney $1,000 per day until the building was brought up to code. The fines reached $330,000 and the city was granted legal permission to begin foreclosure proceedings. A long string of legal battles, including two bankruptcy filings, delayed a sheriff’s auction of the building until April 2013, when local businessman Josh Barrett bought the structure. rhett.morgan@tulsaworld.com Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 17, 2016, 03:38:21 pm (https://67.media.tumblr.com/7a5b07b04c09a1b5d1ec229039cc678b/tumblr_n9o0wpMInf1sgl0ajo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on August 17, 2016, 03:48:25 pm Huge, just huge.
One of Tulsa's greatest buildings, right there with the Adams Hotel and Boston Avenue Methodist. The Ross group is doing great work here in town. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on August 17, 2016, 04:31:50 pm Temper your enthusiasm. While this would be awesome, it sounds like there are still a lot of moving pieces before it is locked into place. Lots of credit to the Ross Group for wanting to get things locked up before making an official announcement. Seems like many people tend to do the opposite.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on August 17, 2016, 04:49:05 pm Temper your enthusiasm. While this would be awesome, it sounds like there are still a lot of moving pieces before it is locked into place. Lots of credit to the Ross Group for wanting to get things locked up before making an official announcement. Seems like many people tend to do the opposite. Perhaps the Mayor's Office should issue an official moratorium on pre-mature official announcements, at least until Jeff Speck has a chance to complete his downtown walkability analysis (with the hope that Mr. Speck will include some recommendations on best practices for making official announcements in his downtown walkability study official report). Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: patric on August 17, 2016, 05:44:32 pm Tulsa Club building revitalization plan calls for boutique hotel, restaurant and retail space So Petty's and Miss Jacksons are moving in? / ;) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Breadburner on August 17, 2016, 05:47:57 pm Perhaps the Mayor's Office should issue an official moratorium on pre-mature official announcements, at least until Jeff Speck has a chance to complete his downtown walkability analysis (with the hope that Mr. Speck will include some recommendations on best practices for making official announcements in his downtown walkability study official report). Who is the Blue love is Jeff Speck and why do you name drop him in everyone of your post.... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on August 17, 2016, 07:06:46 pm So Petty's and Miss Jacksons are moving in? / ;) lol Don't forget Trula. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: rebound on August 18, 2016, 06:27:59 am Who is the Blue love is Jeff Speck and why do you name drop him in everyone of your post.... Dude, "Do you even read?" These threads are full of references to who he is and how he is relevant here. And of course, there is the internets. You could look him up... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on August 18, 2016, 08:32:48 am Dude, "Do you even read?" These threads are full of references to who he is and how he is relevant here. And of course, there is the internets. You could look him up... I think he was getting a belly-full of the Jeff Speck name drop one, two, or three times in Bamboo’s posts. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on August 18, 2016, 11:37:57 am Quote The Tulsa Club folded in 1994, and the building fell into disrepair. C.J. Moroney, a California investor, purchased the building three years later. "Investor"? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on August 18, 2016, 11:39:15 am Quote Among the oldest structures in downtown Tulsa, the 92,220-square-foot, 11-story building was constructed in 1927 as a joint venture between the Tulsa Club and the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce. Architect Bruce Goff designed the Zig-Zag Art Deco structure. Tulsa Chamber of Commerce must've been a different beast in 1927. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: davideinstein on August 18, 2016, 01:28:09 pm If we had more Warren Ross' in town we would be way better off.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: BKDotCom on August 18, 2016, 02:02:10 pm If we had more Warren Ross' in town we would be way better off. Or more Jeff Speck! :) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: davideinstein on August 18, 2016, 02:08:14 pm Or more Jeff Speck! :) Both would be fine. Just get rid of the politicians. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on August 18, 2016, 02:32:19 pm Or more Jeff Speck! :) (https://i.imgflip.com/1956ka.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/1956ka)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on August 18, 2016, 07:51:06 pm Who is the Blue love is Jeff Speck and why do you name drop him in everyone of your post.... He's a 50ish city planner, author, and purported metrosexual. Of my 1300+ posts on the TulsaNow Forum, I've mentioned him by name in approximately 1% of the total, usually when I feel it's appropriate to mention him by name, but sometimes just for fun, and sometimes when I'm all alone, thinking about him, or glancing teary-eyed at the small photo of him that he gave me to savor and cherish, as I fondly remember those precious, fleeting moments he and I shared together. Thank you for inquiry and have a wonderful day. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Breadburner on August 18, 2016, 09:00:56 pm He's a 50ish city planner, author, and purported metrosexual. Of my 1300+ posts on the TulsaNow Forum, I've mentioned him by name in approximately 1% of the total, usually when I feel it's appropriate to mention him by name, but sometimes just for fun, and sometimes when I'm all alone, thinking about him, or glancing teary-eyed at the small photo of him that he gave me to savor and cherish, as I fondly remember those precious, fleeting moments he and I shared together. Thank you for inquiry and have a wonderful day. I walk all over downtown with no troubles......I hope the city is not paying this dude to do a study.... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Breadburner on August 18, 2016, 09:02:02 pm He's a 50ish city planner, author, and purported metrosexual. Of my 1300+ posts on the TulsaNow Forum, I've mentioned him by name in approximately 1% of the total, usually when I feel it's appropriate to mention him by name, but sometimes just for fun, and sometimes when I'm all alone, thinking about him, or glancing teary-eyed at the small photo of him that he gave me to savor and cherish, as I fondly remember those precious, fleeting moments he and I shared together. Thank you for inquiry and have a wonderful day. Lets see the percentage in your last 20 post.... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on August 18, 2016, 09:03:13 pm I walk all over downtown with no troubles......I hope the city is not paying this dude to do a study.... $70K to be exact. One more study the city will do to make it look like they care about smart development then totally ignore the recommendations. Tulsa has spent millions over the last couple of decades on consultants and studies which collect dust. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on August 18, 2016, 09:24:52 pm Lets see the percentage in your last 20 post.... 20% Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on August 18, 2016, 09:30:09 pm Lets see the percentage in your last 20 post.... What's your percentage of being a complete donkey in your last 100 posts? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on August 18, 2016, 10:16:52 pm I walk all over downtown with no troubles......I hope the city is not paying this dude to do a study.... I walk all over downtown with no troubles, also. Sorry for your lost hopes, but the City is paying the purportedly metrosexual dude $70K to conduct yet another study, as Conan71 posted. Yes, unfortunately, that's $70K that will be leaving Tulsa's economy, only to recommend things we already know and have known for many years. And the recommendations, as good as they likely will be, are doomed. I expect the study to be shelved and collecting dust almost immediately, just as Conan71 described. And, unfortunately, the City is waiting on the completion of the purportedly metrosexual dude's walkability study before lifting the "moratorium" or whatever they're calling the halt on licensing agreements, which we've been discussing on the "Moratorium: No more sidewalk cafes" (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21376.0) topic initiated by davideinstein last week. I think any moratorium on downtown licensing agreements while the City is awaiting the completion of a walkability study is ridiculous. On this thread, I mentioned a moratorium and the walkability study facetiously, as a response to cannon_fodder, incorrectly assuming that he and everyone else who regularly participates in urban development discussions knows who the purportedly metrosexual $70,000 walkability study dude is. Nope. Bamboo World was wrong again! At least one user here doesn't know who in the Blue love wrote Walkable City and has been discussed on the TulsaNow Forum in ten different threads (not including this one) for more than eight years. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on August 19, 2016, 07:02:01 am I walk all over downtown with no troubles, also. Sorry for your lost hopes, but the City is paying the purportedly metrosexual dude $70K to conduct yet another study, as Conan71 posted. Yes, unfortunately, that's $70K that will be leaving Tulsa's economy, only to recommend things we already know and have known for many years. And the recommendations, as good as they likely will be, are doomed. I expect the study to be shelved and collecting dust almost immediately, just as Conan71 described. And, unfortunately, the City is waiting on the completion of the purportedly metrosexual dude's walkability study before lifting the "moratorium" or whatever they're calling the halt on licensing agreements, which we've been discussing on the "Moratorium: No more sidewalk cafes" (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21376.0) topic initiated by davideinstein last week. I think any moratorium on downtown licensing agreements while the City is awaiting the completion of a walkability study is ridiculous. On this thread, I mentioned a moratorium and the walkability study facetiously, as a response to cannon_fodder, incorrectly assuming that he and everyone else who regularly participates in urban development discussions knows who the purportedly metrosexual $70,000 walkability study dude is. Nope. Bamboo World was wrong again! At least one user here doesn't know who in the Blue love wrote Walkable City and has been discussed on the TulsaNow Forum in ten different threads (not including this one) for more than eight years. I am very hopeful that Bynum will be more data driven and will actually use these studies over whatever it is that Dewey does. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on August 19, 2016, 07:15:33 am Why the focus on "metrosexual," and what does that mean? Is a metrosexual downtown different than a homosexual or heterosxual downtown? Or is it a pun, "metro-area sexual?" I'm confused.
Also worth noting that the funding for Jeff Speck's study was raised from a variety of sources. This isn't all city money, they hoped it would be almost none. Not sure where they ended up. That said --- we have a good idea what makes a walkable downtown because we can watch the TED talk, read the book, follow Strong Towns and Smart Growth, pay attention to other cities, etc. etc. etc. We also know what zoning generally means, what formed based codes are, how fire codes can detract from the intent of other initiatives, how the economics of density work, etc. etc. etc. This is because we are nerds. NERDS I tell you! Fortunately, some people in city government are nerds too. INCOG is full of them. Anna American and Ewing flirt with nerdism. If the glasses are an indication, and I think they are, GT wants to join the nerd side. But government needs something to point to and say, "gee, we paid for this, we should consider using it." If $70k helps them make our argument, then hell yeah! Plus, a study specific to Tulsa will help point out what we have already done right - and where we can focus moving forward. Jeff Speck gets named dropped as often as Jeff Speck does for a reason. Am I afraid we put a pretty report on a shelf and its primary use is for dissidents and detractors to point and and scream "why aren't we doing this" (see, e.g., PLANiTULSA) - sure am. Am I hopeful this time will be different? That some good will come from it? That developers who want to throw up big boxes, and land holders who see easy profits in surface parking lots, and NIMBY types all over will maybe see the light? I sure am. And so, my fellow America... sorry, got carried away. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: rebound on August 19, 2016, 08:08:20 am ...But government needs something to point to and say, "gee, we paid for this, we should consider using it." If $70k helps them make our argument, then hell yeah! Plus, a study specific to Tulsa will help point out what we have already done right - and where we can focus moving forward. Jeff Speck gets named dropped as often as Jeff Speck does for a reason. I've been an operations consultant for over 20 years, and a lot of the time one of my key roles is simply to take the heat for specifying the change/improvement. In almost any change, somebody's ox is going to get gored. Using an external consultant often allows mgmt, or govt, to point to the consultant and say "well, the expert said this...", and use that to make the changes. Now, if they will just make the changes. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 19, 2016, 09:57:19 am He's a 50ish city planner, author, and purported metrosexual. Of my 1300+ posts on the TulsaNow Forum, I've mentioned him by name in approximately 1% of the total, usually when I feel it's appropriate to mention him by name, but sometimes just for fun, and sometimes when I'm all alone, thinking about him, or glancing teary-eyed at the small photo of him that he gave me to savor and cherish, as I fondly remember those precious, fleeting moments he and I shared together. Thank you for inquiry and have a wonderful day. Brilliant!! I love it...!! Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: davideinstein on August 19, 2016, 04:56:03 pm I walk all over downtown with no troubles......I hope the city is not paying this dude to do a study.... What's your resume in regard to urban planning? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownDan on August 22, 2016, 09:35:55 am I am very hopeful that Bynum will be more data driven and will actually use these studies over whatever it is that Dewey does. I hope so too, but the people who oppose smart development aren't going to change. I support Bynum and think he will do better, but I've never pretended that he's going to disrupt the big box mafia that run our planning commission and council. He might get a few concessions out of them from time to time, but I hope nobody expects him to shut down the developers who pay big money to prevent smart zoning. If that's what you expect out of Bynum, you're going to be disappointed I think. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2016, 04:25:24 pm What's your resume in regard to urban planning? Lol. You and Bamboo World are on a roll this week!! Keep up the good work. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on August 25, 2016, 12:01:24 pm Quote Tulsa Club building project proposal moves forward with committee approval Plans for a $24 million conversion of the historic Tulsa Club building, 115 E. Fifth St., into a boutique hotel plus restaurant and retail space cleared another hurdle Thursday. The Local Development Act Review Committee unanimously recommended considering tax relief for the Tulsa-based Ross Group proposal, which seeks a six-year tax abatement totaling roughly $1.693 million. The committee comprises representatives of entities that would be have ad valorem taxes redirected under the proposal: Tulsa Health Department; Tulsa City-County Library Commission; Tulsa Technology Center; Tulsa Community College; city of Tulsa (sinking fund); Tulsa County Board of Commissioners; and Tulsa Public Schools. "It is an early step in the process, but this is a great project," said committee member and Tulsa City Councilor Blake Ewing. "I'm pretty confident that as we take it back to our individual groups, we'll see unanimous support." The project calls for the new "Tulsa Club Hotel" to be historically renovated to house 98 boutique hotel rooms on floors 1 through 8, restaurant and retail on the first floor (6,800 square feet), and restaurant and bar space on the 11th floor (5,400 square feet), documents show. The hotel rooms would be managed by Promise Hotels under Hilton’s Curio brand. Under the renovation, the ballroom on the ninth and 10th floors also would be restored, said Steven Watts, the development project manager for Ross Group who oversaw Thursday's presentation to the committee. "It is a great investment for the city of Tulsa," Watts said during the meeting. Watts told the group that the project would bring an estimated 393 direct and indirect jobs to the city, a number that includes workers on the 18-24 month construction. A total of 55 to 75 people would work full-time in the building, he said. Federal and state historic tax credits are being sought for the renovation, records indicate. Ross Group purchased the building, which has sat vacant for 22 years, for $1.5 million in September. Among the oldest structures in downtown Tulsa, the 92,220-square-foot, 11-story building was constructed in 1927 as a joint venture between the Tulsa Club and the Tulsa Chamber of Commerce. Architect Bruce Goff designed the Zigzag art deco structure. The Chamber of Commerce occupied the first five floors for 25 years, and the Tulsa Club filled the upper six with dining halls, a gymnasium, a barber shop, and various lounges and libraries. The top floor housed the Sky Terrace, which was used for luncheons and seated about 100 people, and the building was capped with a rooftop garden. The Tulsa Club folded in 1994, and the building fell into disrepair. C.J. Moroney, a California investor, purchased the building three years later. After dozens of break-ins and multiple fires, the city of Tulsa eventually targeted the building as a public nuisance and, at the start of 2008, began fining Moroney $1,000 per day until the building was brought up to code. The fines reached $330,000 and the city was granted legal permission to begin foreclosure proceedings. A long string of legal battles, including two bankruptcy filings, delayed a sheriff’s auction of the building until April 2013, when local businessman Josh Barrett bought the structure. Quote http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/tulsa-club-building-project-proposal-moves-forward-with-committee-approval/article_779bf81f-b7ca-5ca5-8016-ddc6d278192d.html Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DTowner on August 25, 2016, 02:47:42 pm Another small step, but an important one to bringing this building back to life. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 07, 2016, 01:06:00 pm A happy ending (fingers crossed) for the club building as posted by the groove crusher:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21435.0;topicseen (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21435.0;topicseen) Now how about that pesky Abundant Life building? Surely there's some laws being broken there by now... (https://c7.staticflickr.com/4/3206/3078176886_cee0f6c7af.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on December 07, 2016, 01:53:38 pm A happy ending (fingers crossed) for the club building as posted by the groove crusher: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21435.0;topicseen (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21435.0;topicseen) Now how about that pesky Abundant Life building? Surely there's some laws being broken there by now... (https://c7.staticflickr.com/4/3206/3078176886_cee0f6c7af.jpg) What guy doesn’t like a happy ending? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on December 07, 2016, 02:02:36 pm The Tulsa Club is a treasure worth saving and renovating. Abundant Life is a piece of junk that is better off in a landfill. Tear it down and redevelop all of those lots along Boulder.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 07, 2016, 02:04:27 pm The Tulsa Club is a treasure worth saving and renovating. Abundant Life is a piece of junk that is better off in a landfill. Tear it down and redevelop all of those lots along Boulder. The homeowners to the West of it would probably agree...what a big asspimple to stare at out your back door. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: DowntownDan on December 09, 2016, 09:23:03 am I'm a fan of historic preservation, but I can't find it in me to support preservation of that windowless diamond pattern monstrosity. It's just plain hideous.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 10:10:30 am It's sad because at one time it was quite beautiful. My mom worked there and for Oral for many, many years. Employees used to take turns giving tours of the building when people would come in to see it. She has told me there were different types of wood from all over the world throughout. I wish I could see pics of the interior.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on December 09, 2016, 10:20:24 am It's sad because at one time it was quite beautiful. My mom worked there and for Oral for many, many years. Employees used to take turns giving tours of the building when people would come in to see it. She has told me there were different types of wood from all over the world throughout. I wish I could see pics of the interior. It’s pretty depressing: http://www.abandonedok.com/abundant-life-building/ Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 10:23:16 am It’s pretty depressing: http://www.abandonedok.com/abundant-life-building/ I meant then, not now. :( Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 09, 2016, 10:23:27 am It's sad because at one time it was quite beautiful. My mom worked there and for Oral for many, many years. Employees used to take turns giving tours of the building when people would come in to see it. She has told me there were different types of wood from all over the world throughout. I wish I could see pics of the interior. [edit]I was posting as others were! I looked, but could find zero pictures of the interior from "back in the day." Perhaps supporting the conclusion that it wasn't anything spectacular?[/edit] Wish granted: http://www.abandonedok.com/abundant-life-building/ If this building was in great shape, it would be a hard sell with zero windows and no updates since the 1970s. As it stands, it appears to be trashed and the roof leaking. The guy who went through it said it was an office frozen in the early 1980s. The pictures show very few sparks of historic greatness (mostly a marble entryway) and otherwise crappy drop ceilings and cheap wood veneer that is falling off. I can't imagine anyone wanting to save it out of anything other than nostalgia - which is a hard sell at ~20mil to renovate (using the Tulsa Club figure). (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mini-sdc14285.jpg) (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mini-sdc14283.jpg) (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mini-sdc14273.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 10:32:16 am Quote Perhaps supporting the conclusion that it wasn't anything spectacular? Oral didn't do anything that wasn't spectacular. Like I said, my mom worked in that building from the beginning - I don't think there would have been tours of it if it wasn't worth seeing. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 09, 2016, 10:51:34 am That's a fair point, but it is also true that he abandoned the building before it was 20 years old. The only other use was as a telephone switch (basically the same as AT&Ts giant brick building downtown). I guess its possible that AT&T removed much of the gilding when it took over the building, but looking at the pictures of the Tulsa Club you can see it was constructed with marble, brass, solid wood paneling, and terrazzo throughout... even after decades of neglect, vandals, and fire, much of those things can still be appreciated. Looking at the pictures of the Abundant Life building, other than the entry it doesn't rise to that level.
Maybe that's why Oral abandoned it? Interesting article from the ORU newspaper: http://oruoracle.com/news/historic-oral-roberts-building-at-risk-of-demolition/ Last significant article from Tulsa World: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/abundant-life-tulsa-club-buildings-remain-closed/article_a5718efb-2c10-5aa2-9c73-60da2d7be9ed.html I cannot find the lawsuit that is supposedly holding up any activity on the property. It appears a former lender tried to foreclose, someone filed a quit title, all sorts of fun... https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34976091/one-key-question-in-abundant-life-foreclosure-in-tulsa https://www.questia.com/read/1P2-34933388/counterclaims-challenge-foreclosure-lawsuit-against https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34849457/lender-files-foreclosure-lawsuit-against-tulsa-s-abundant https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34933388/counterclaims-challenge-foreclosure-lawsuit-against Someone would have to call Brian Feese and get the scoop... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 10:57:55 am That's a fair point, but it is also true that he abandoned the building before it was 20 years old. The only other use was as a telephone switch (basically the same as AT&Ts giant brick building downtown). I guess its possible that AT&T removed much of the gilding when it took over the building, but looking at the pictures of the Tulsa Club you can see it was constructed with marble, brass, solid wood paneling, and terrazzo throughout... even after decades of neglect, vandals, and fire, much of those things can still be appreciated. Looking at the pictures of the Abundant Life building, other than the entry it doesn't rise to that level. Maybe that's why Oral abandoned it? Interesting article from the ORU newspaper: http://oruoracle.com/news/historic-oral-roberts-building-at-risk-of-demolition/ Last significant article from Tulsa World: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/abundant-life-tulsa-club-buildings-remain-closed/article_a5718efb-2c10-5aa2-9c73-60da2d7be9ed.html I cannot find the lawsuit that is supposedly holding up any activity on the property. It appears a former lender tried to foreclose, someone filed a quit title, all sorts of fun... https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34976091/one-key-question-in-abundant-life-foreclosure-in-tulsa https://www.questia.com/read/1P2-34933388/counterclaims-challenge-foreclosure-lawsuit-against https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34849457/lender-files-foreclosure-lawsuit-against-tulsa-s-abundant https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34933388/counterclaims-challenge-foreclosure-lawsuit-against Someone would have to call Brian Feese and get the scoop... There's no point in even discussing it with you, c_f. You're like a dog with a bone. (And for what it's worth, there's a little place called ORU that all operations were moved to from the Abundant Life Building...) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on December 09, 2016, 12:42:52 pm That's a fair point, but it is also true that he abandoned the building before it was 20 years old. The only other use was as a telephone switch (basically the same as AT&Ts giant brick building downtown). I guess its possible that AT&T removed much of the gilding when it took over the building, but looking at the pictures of the Tulsa Club you can see it was constructed with marble, brass, solid wood paneling, and terrazzo throughout... even after decades of neglect, vandals, and fire, much of those things can still be appreciated. Looking at the pictures of the Abundant Life building, other than the entry it doesn't rise to that level. Maybe that's why Oral abandoned it? Interesting article from the ORU newspaper: http://oruoracle.com/news/historic-oral-roberts-building-at-risk-of-demolition/ Last significant article from Tulsa World: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/abundant-life-tulsa-club-buildings-remain-closed/article_a5718efb-2c10-5aa2-9c73-60da2d7be9ed.html I cannot find the lawsuit that is supposedly holding up any activity on the property. It appears a former lender tried to foreclose, someone filed a quit title, all sorts of fun... https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34976091/one-key-question-in-abundant-life-foreclosure-in-tulsa https://www.questia.com/read/1P2-34933388/counterclaims-challenge-foreclosure-lawsuit-against https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34849457/lender-files-foreclosure-lawsuit-against-tulsa-s-abundant https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-34933388/counterclaims-challenge-foreclosure-lawsuit-against Someone would have to call Brian Feese and get the scoop... Oral’s buildings were very significant Mid-Century designs in their day and are still looked upon by some architecture buffs with favor. I suspect had the Abundant Life Building been constructed with windows it might have found a better re-purpose and would not sit vacant now. Angie, do you have any idea why this was constructed without any windows? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AquaMan on December 09, 2016, 01:08:24 pm Conan, I was told it was to keep utility costs low. It was also around the time of East Central high school construction using the same idea. Cheaper to heat/cool and maintain since windows need cleaned, caulked, replaced. I remember it as a youth being pretty cool.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Hoss on December 09, 2016, 01:09:11 pm Conan, I was told it was to keep utility costs low. It was also around the time of East Central high school construction using the same idea. Cheaper to heat/cool and maintain since windows need cleaned, caulked, replaced. I remember it as a youth being pretty cool. Ah yes, ECHS...or as us alumni chose to call it -- "The Prison". Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2016, 01:15:31 pm There's no point in even discussing it with you, c_f. You're like a dog with a bone. (And for what it's worth, there's a little place called ORU that all operations were moved to from the Abundant Life Building...) I believe you and I might have differing opinions on the attractiveness of ORU. (http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/sky-view-oru-daniel-kleefeld.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: rebound on December 09, 2016, 01:21:45 pm The ORU architecture is awesome! They used a little too much gold (I know, Iknow...) for me, but as long as it is kept up, it will be a showplace for MCM design.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 01:25:09 pm I believe you and I might have differing opinions on the attractiveness of ORU. How do you know my opinion of the attractiveness of ORU? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2016, 01:36:17 pm How do you know my opinion of the attractiveness of ORU? You appeared to allude to it in previous posts. If you find it unattractive then I misunderstood and I retract. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 01:53:35 pm You appeared to allude to it in previous posts. If you find it unattractive then I misunderstood and I retract. My only comment concerning ORU was that they moved operations there from the Abundant Life Building. I did say the ABL was beautiful in its day. But if you must know, I do believe the architecture of ORU is significant and has many beautiful features. I objected to the condescending nature of your comment and assumption of what my opinion must be. Let's throw up an unattractive aerial photo and chuckle that someone might think it has architectural value. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: AngieB on December 09, 2016, 02:19:22 pm Oral’s buildings were very significant Mid-Century designs in their day and are still looked upon by some architecture buffs with favor. I suspect had the Abundant Life Building been constructed with windows it might have found a better re-purpose and would not sit vacant now. Angie, do you have any idea why this was constructed without any windows? Aquaman is correct, it was to save on utility costs. I just got off the phone with my mother and she spoke of the spacious open areas, terrazzo floors and marble features. She didn't know all the different woods used, but did mention teak and birdseye maple. And the fantastic pipe organ in the upper level sanctuary. Also, Oral did not "abandon" the building – to her recollection, some operations stayed in the building for several years then it was sold. I don't know who allowed to to go to ruin, but it wasn't OREA/ORU. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 09, 2016, 02:26:57 pm The only other use was as a telephone switch (basically the same as AT&Ts giant brick building downtown). The old Central High School building? That would be a real gem to bring back to use. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: johrasephoenix on December 09, 2016, 03:47:07 pm I've always thought that ORU looks either like:
a) the National Autonomous University of Mexico in Mexico City or b) Star Trek Federation Galactic Headquarters Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Conan71 on December 09, 2016, 03:48:44 pm The old Central High School building? That would be a real gem to bring back to use. Isn’t AEP/PSO in the old Central High? Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 09, 2016, 04:00:35 pm Isn’t AEP/PSO in the old Central High? Oh yeah you might be right. Well whatever's in the old Central High, it's too boring for that cool building. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2016, 04:24:20 pm My only comment concerning ORU was that they moved operations there from the Abundant Life Building. I did say the ABL was beautiful in its day. But if you must know, I do believe the architecture of ORU is significant and has many beautiful features. I objected to the condescending nature of your comment and assumption of what my opinion must be. Let's throw up an unattractive aerial photo and chuckle that someone might think it has architectural value. Not condescending. The campus is ugly as Hell, close up or aerial view. It's just God-awful. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 12, 2016, 09:26:52 am There's no point in even discussing it with you... (And for what it's worth, there's a little place called ORU that all operations were moved to from the Abundant Life Building...) I'm not trying to be hostile. Oral Roberts Ministries (and later ORU too) didn't abandon the property due to lack of funds. Nothing of the sort! He was wildly successful and sold the building when they moved all operations south. What I was trying to say is that they could have kept that building to maintain a downtown presence if they wanted to. But 20 years after building it they were comfortable walking away. Oral Roberts went with a radical design for the ORU campus too, even some similar elements, but all the buildings seem to have lots of light. It isn't a negative against Oral Roberts that he chose to go out on a limb architecturally. Everyone loves the art deco buildings in town (me too), but other than the first couple built in town - people were just following the crowd towards the best way to show off wealth. It wasn't an artistic gamble. The same for TU's campus, no one goes to TU's campus to see the architecture because it is conservative university architecture found all over, but love it or hate it - people want to see ORU's architecture. People still come to see it. I think it would have been awesome if he could have built ORU near downtown (including the towers!), but obviously that presented some serious issues (like acres of open land). The Abundant Life Building was Oral Robert's first attempt, but when he could it seems like he moved on and left the building behind. The concepts I have seen on the internet for renovations all seem to include massive changes to the exterior walls to bring in light. So I think that is the design element that has caused people to pause when considering re-purposing the building. Thanks for sharing your mom's experience working there. I wonder if SW Bell added the drop ceilings and other things when dividing the larger spaces? Sadly, only the pictures of the lobby seem to be in the condition that your mom remembers. The rest must have been "improved" by the new owner. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 12, 2016, 10:37:47 am I'm not trying to be hostile. Oral Roberts Ministries (and later ORU too) didn't abandon the property due to lack of funds. Nothing of the sort! He was wildly successful and sold the building when they moved all operations south. What I was trying to say is that they could have kept that building to maintain a downtown presence if they wanted to. But 20 years after building it they were comfortable walking away. Oral Roberts went with a radical design for the ORU campus too, even some similar elements, but all the buildings seem to have lots of light. It isn't a negative against Oral Roberts that he chose to go out on a limb architecturally. Everyone loves the art deco buildings in town (me too), but other than the first couple built in town - people were just following the crowd towards the best way to show off wealth. It wasn't an artistic gamble. The same for TU's campus, no one goes to TU's campus to see the architecture because it is conservative university architecture found all over, but love it or hate it - people want to see ORU's architecture. People still come to see it. I think it would have been awesome if he could have built ORU near downtown (including the towers!), but obviously that presented some serious issues (like acres of open land). The Abundant Life Building was Oral Robert's first attempt, but when he could it seems like he moved on and left the building behind. The concepts I have seen on the internet for renovations all seem to include massive changes to the exterior walls to bring in light. So I think that is the design element that has caused people to pause when considering re-purposing the building. Thanks for sharing your mom's experience working there. I wonder if SW Bell added the drop ceilings and other things when dividing the larger spaces? Sadly, only the pictures of the lobby seem to be in the condition that your mom remembers. The rest must have been "improved" by the new owner. Maybe people used to come into town to see ORU architecture, but I interact with hundred of people visiting Tulsa every year and have never heard anyone ask or mention visiting ORU except for the few coming in town specifically to get their kids moved to ORU or see their graduation. It is a crazy looking "retro futuristic" place. Many buildings remind me of a lot of some buildings that dominate certain Latin American skylines, like something out of Caracas Venezuela or Panama. It really is a campus full of architectural gems (good or bad - they're distinct), and I wish more people cared, but I don't think very many people know about it outside of those involved with ORU and Tulsans. I have heard visitors on several occasions who weren't here for TU specifically compliment the TU campus saying it is very beautiful. It may not be the most distinct place architecturally but it might be the nicest campus within a couple hundred miles. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2016, 12:30:37 pm Looking at the Abundant Life building just makes me sad. I look at the houses to the West of it and realize what it most likely took from the area when it was built.
Looking at the ORU campus from the intersection of 81st and Lewis and the massive parking lot...plant a damned tree. Same goes for the area around Cityplex...trees, anything... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on December 12, 2016, 06:08:39 pm ...Everyone loves the art deco buildings in town... Everyone? The former owners of World Publishing didn't seem to be very fond of Art Deco buildings. ...The Abundant Life Building was Oral Roberts' first attempt... His first attempt at what? There was another, earlier building, to the north of the Abundant Life Building, at the northwest corner of 17th and Boulder. In my opinion, the now-demolished older building, constructed in the late 1940s, was more interesting (on its exterior) than the Abundant Life building: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1379391,-95.9884417,3a,75y,290.28h,92.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLQn1mXlFsU5DEgaS6_jQLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1379391,-95.9884417,3a,75y,290.28h,92.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLQn1mXlFsU5DEgaS6_jQLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) ...love it or hate it - people want to see ORU's architecture. People still come to see it... I agree. My experience has been the exact opposite of TulsaGoldenHurriCAN's. Whenever I mention Tulsa to friends and strangers who live elsewhere, nearly everyone mentions the architecture of ORU. They're curious about it, and almost always want to see it when they're visiting Tulsa. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: swake on December 12, 2016, 07:08:00 pm Everyone? The former owners of World Publishing didn't seem to be very fond of Art Deco buildings. His first attempt at what? There was another, earlier building, to the north of the Abundant Life Building, at the northwest corner of 17th and Boulder. In my opinion, the now-demolished older building, constructed in the late 1940s, was more interesting (on its exterior) than the Abundant Life building: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1379391,-95.9884417,3a,75y,290.28h,92.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLQn1mXlFsU5DEgaS6_jQLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1379391,-95.9884417,3a,75y,290.28h,92.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLQn1mXlFsU5DEgaS6_jQLA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) I agree. My experience has been the exact opposite of TulsaGoldenHurriCAN's. Whenever I mention Tulsa to friends and strangers who live elsewhere, nearly everyone mentions the architecture of ORU. They're curious about it, and almost always want to see it when they're visiting Tulsa. Everyone wants to see Six Flags Over Jesus Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 13, 2016, 09:08:33 am Everyone? The former owners of World Publishing didn't seem to be very fond of Art Deco buildings. "Everyone" was hyperbole. Though, destroying a building for short-sited and flawed economic reasons (like a little-used parking lot) doesn't necessarily mean you don't like the architectural style. Quote His first attempt at what? There was another, earlier building, to the north of the Abundant Life Building, at the northwest corner of 17th and Boulder. In my opinion, the now-demolished older building, constructed in the late 1940s, was more interesting (on its exterior) than the Abundant Life building I did not know that. Pulled up the records - it appears it was owned under the name "Healing Waters, Inc." which was changed to "Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association, Inc." by Amending the Articles of Incorporation on Feb. 19, 1957, signed by... Oral Roberts as President and Chairman of the Board. I'm sure this is no surprise to locals, but I did not know that and I didn't spend the time to look up and see if his organization built the 17th and Boulder building or not - so I will take your word for it. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 13, 2016, 12:48:54 pm I agree. My experience has been the exact opposite of TulsaGoldenHurriCAN's. Whenever I mention Tulsa to friends and strangers who live elsewhere, nearly everyone mentions the architecture of ORU. They're curious about it, and almost always want to see it when they're visiting Tulsa. About how many people have you talked to who have visited Tulsa total? I've dealt with hundreds visiting Tulsa (maybe over a thousand) and have not heard a single one mention wanting to see the ORU campus before or after talking about what they saw or what stood out. I definitely got that from family and friends growing up and people I knew in college, some did mention that ORU is one of the must-see things in Tulsa. But from out of towners visiting here, I doubt very many know anything about it. I doubt much more than 1 in a 1000 visitors to Tulsa are coming specifically to see ORU as a tourist destination (Going to get kids situated, see a game or event there would be a bit higher). Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 13, 2016, 01:50:36 pm Most people I've met ask me if he really asked for $8 million or God would call him home.
(http://img01.deviantart.net/7845/i/2015/115/b/0/false_preacher__oral_roberts_by_artngame215-d4udrhb.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 13, 2016, 01:53:13 pm I don't know of any that came specifically to see ORU's campus, just one of the sites to see while you are in town. The overall architecture is interesting, the sky scrappers in the middle of nowhere, the giant praying hands (which make several lists of roadside attractions as the worlds largest bronze), and some people just like checking out college campuses in general.
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on December 13, 2016, 03:16:00 pm About how many people have you talked to who have visited Tulsa total? Dozens, perhaps hundreds. Fewer people than you have. It's difficult for me to estimate. I've lived in Tulsa since the 1980s, and in the Tulsa region since the 1960s. Most of the dozens (perhaps hundreds) of people have expressed interest in seeing the ORU campus. I can't think of any who have wanted to see the glaring acorn light fixtures around TU. I can't think of many who have wanted to see anything at TU at all. My experience has been very different from yours -- "the exact opposite" was hyperbole. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: RecycleMichael on December 14, 2016, 08:26:25 am I have spoken to as many visitors to Tulsa as any of you. I used to host groups of visitors for the chamber if they had any environmental backgrounds.
Most of the interest were of the Golden Driller, route 66 or art deco buildings, but ORU campus did come up. I took a bunch pf people from Korea to ORU just because they wanted to see the praying hands. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 14, 2016, 04:59:03 pm Dozens, perhaps hundreds. Fewer people than you have. It's difficult for me to estimate. I've lived in Tulsa since the 1980s, and in the Tulsa region since the 1960s. Most of the dozens (perhaps hundreds) of people have expressed interest in seeing the ORU campus. I can't think of any who have wanted to see the glaring acorn light fixtures around TU. I can't think of many who have wanted to see anything at TU at all. My experience has been very different from yours -- "the exact opposite" was hyperbole. Well I have interacted with more people recently than that and many more coming to visit TU than ORU. Say what you want about the light choices of TU, the campus is beautiful whereas ORU's campus is an eye sore full of outdated crazy sci-fi/third-world looking buildings. It is interesting, but ugly. You must know a lot of religious people. ORU was more well-known 2-3 decades ago and is still well known mostly among evangelicals and older people, especially in this region. Younger people around the US don't know much about it. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Bamboo World on December 14, 2016, 07:30:22 pm Well I have interacted with more people recently than that... Yes, I read that in your Dec 12th post here: Maybe people used to come into town to see ORU architecture, but I interact with hundred of people visiting Tulsa every year... I took "with hundred" as perhaps "with a hundred" people every year or perhaps as "hundreds" misspelled in your post. After reading your Dec 13th post, I could see that you had misspelled "hundreds" in your Dec 12th post: About how many people have you talked to who have visited Tulsa total? I've dealt with hundreds visiting Tulsa (maybe over a thousand)... I answered your question directly and honestly. I acknowledged that you deal with more visitors than I do, based on the numbers you mentioned in your Dec 12th and Dec 13th posts. In my replies, I posted what my experience has been. My experience has been different from yours. ...Say what you want about the light choices of TU... Okay: The acorn lights are awful. I remember the TU campus before the acorn lights. The glaring acorn lights have made the area around TU worse, not better. ...ORU's campus is an eye sore full of outdated crazy sci-fi/third-world looking buildings. It is interesting, but ugly. You must know a lot of religious people. ORU was more well-known 2-3 decades ago and is still well known mostly among evangelicals and older people, especially in this region. Younger people around the US don't know much about it. You've made some presumptions about the people I know. But whether I know many religious people or few, what does that have to do with strangers and visitors who express their curiosity about ORU to me? I'm not an expert on ORU, self-appointed or otherwise. But strangers and visitors ask me about ORU, anyway. I didn't mention my opinion about ORU's campus, nor did I mention much or anything at all about the opinion of strangers and visitors who've asked me about ORU for decades, and continue to ask me about ORU, frequently and regularly. Some consider the ORU campus buildings to be bizarre. Some consider them to be ugly. Some consider them to be beautiful. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Weatherdemon on December 15, 2016, 07:40:23 am I don't get the hate of the ORU campus.
It's unique and pretty cool IMO. The gold Legion of Doom is my favorite and it was fun watching the hospital go up from my childhood home in Jenks. A lot of people I've talked to from out of town have asked if it's worth going to and I always tell them yes,it is. And IIRC, he did asked for several millions of dollars or God would take him home. I never understood how that actually worked though... Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 08:34:36 am Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 08:41:22 am I don't get the hate of the ORU campus. It's unique and pretty cool IMO. The gold Legion of Doom is my favorite and it was fun watching the hospital go up from my childhood home in Jenks. A lot of people I've talked to from out of town have asked if it's worth going to and I always tell them yes,it is. And IIRC, he did asked for several millions of dollars or God would take him home. I never understood how that actually worked though... I don't hate it. It's interesting and weird. I think it's pretty ugly overall but reasons to see it are similar to the reasons for visiting the old victorian neighborhoods in Detroit that are falling apart, or skid row in LA or North Korea. It is a bit of a morbid curiosity to see the remains of a once booming "empire" that is out-dated and bizarre looking. Retro-futurism at its best and worst. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Townsend on December 15, 2016, 12:53:44 pm I don't get the hate of the ORU campus. It's unique and pretty cool IMO. The gold Legion of Doom is my favorite and it was fun watching the hospital go up from my childhood home in Jenks. A lot of people I've talked to from out of town have asked if it's worth going to and I always tell them yes,it is. And IIRC, he did asked for several millions of dollars or God would take him home. I never understood how that actually worked though... Not hate...have to care about something to hate it. It's unattractive and outdated...all the blacktop is awful. My memory tells me that the final millions needed for Oral to stay here on Earth were paid by a dog track owner in Florida. While Oral was sick in bed and in a weakened state, the devil came to take him. Mrs. Roberts battled the devil mano a mano and won! Later she tripped over a parking lot bump and died. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: Breadburner on December 15, 2016, 01:07:46 pm Here is a good fast read.....
https://www.amazon.com/Give-Me-That-Prime-Time-Religion/dp/0801530911 Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 15, 2016, 01:34:50 pm FOCUS!
We have strayed from the Abundant Life Building to ORUs campus to discussions of Oral Roberts himself. Which is fine thread drift indeed... but if we want to discuss Oral Roberts lets go start a thread in politics because that is likely to go downhill fast. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: SXSW on December 15, 2016, 02:24:09 pm Can we separate this discussion into two threads: (1) Tulsa Club, which is a real project at this point and will be a crown jewel for downtown on the same level of the Mayo and (2) Abundant Life, which continues to rot away with no viable plan and needs to meet an ARK Wrecking crew ASAP..
Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 02:26:27 pm Not hate...have to care about something to hate it. It's unattractive and outdated...all the blacktop is awful. Back to the Abundant Life building, that is a complete eye sore. It has some of the 3rd-world-esque features that became prominent in many of Oral's buildings: gaudy, strange shape, lack of or oddly-placed windows, GOLD, strange proportions, zig-zags and angles, mid-century-esque elements, exceptionally unsightly when not maintained (and tough to maintain). Could it be fixed up to be some sort of eccentric, creative looking building? Perhaps by someone with a great eye, but would probably be expensive. I don't see it being demolished and replaced with another building any time soon. The photo of it at night actually makes it look like it has potential: (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hollywoodplace/7078745533) Still ugly, but proper lighting and a fresh paint job makes it look a bit more like a PAC with an interestingly-textured top part. Maybe the sides could be almost completely replaced like they're doing at that former black-glass building at 6th and Boston. Title: Re: Updates on Tulsa Club and Abundant Life Bldgs Post by: cannon_fodder on December 15, 2016, 02:50:28 pm Can we separate this discussion into two threads: (1) Tulsa Club, which is a real project at this point and will be a crown jewel for downtown on the same level of the Mayo and (2) Abundant Life, which continues to rot away with no viable plan and needs to meet an ARK Wrecking crew ASAP.. We started a seperate thread for the Tulsa Club a week ago, I PM'd the Moderator to update the thread title: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21435.0 Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on December 18, 2019, 07:16:56 pm Construction fence going up around Abundant Life building. Anyone know what is going on?
Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: shavethewhales on December 19, 2019, 09:09:43 am I'll bet the building has finally fallen into enough disrepair to finally warrant demolition. I'm betting it becomes nothing more than parking for the time being.
Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on December 19, 2019, 09:47:31 am I'll bet the building has finally fallen into enough disrepair to finally warrant demolition. I'm betting it becomes nothing more than parking for the time being. Maybe. They have also set-up side-walk protective scaffolding. Really curious to see what happens on this one. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: SXSW on December 19, 2019, 12:40:26 pm I'll bet the building has finally fallen into enough disrepair to finally warrant demolition. I'm betting it becomes nothing more than parking for the time being. In this rare case that will actually be an improvement. My hope is that someday soon the land is valuable enough that multi-story residences can replace those parking lots along the west side of Boulder. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 19, 2019, 12:57:39 pm This is an ugly building, but I'm wondering if some sort of genius redesign could make it look like an art installation.
Maybe the facade is a big part of the problem (too hard to maintain). I don't think a parking lot is an improvement. If the structure is in tact, renovating should be the way to go. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on December 20, 2019, 10:58:13 am This is an ugly building, but I'm wondering if some sort of genius redesign could make it look like an art installation. Maybe the facade is a big part of the problem (too hard to maintain). I don't think a parking lot is an improvement. If the structure is in tact, renovating should be the way to go. Facade coming down. Developer trying to decide what to do with remaining structure, but appears to be trying to re-develop it. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: swake on December 20, 2019, 11:20:39 am Facade coming down. Developer trying to decide what to do with remaining structure, but appears to be trying to re-develop it. The facade was already coming down all on it's own. Tear the building down. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: shavethewhales on December 20, 2019, 11:51:09 am https://ktul.com/news/local/iconic-downtown-building-losing-facade
Here is the news report. So basically they are just taking the facade itself down... so it will be even more of an ugly box. Not sure why people are trying so hard to save this thing. Especially now, there won't be any redeeming quality about it. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: DTowner on December 20, 2019, 12:45:57 pm Presumably the facade became a safety issue. I have mixed feelings about this one. I hate to see old buildings torn down that could be repurposed, but this is such a strange building it might not be a realistic/practical rehab.
Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: Tulsan on December 20, 2019, 03:48:53 pm The facade was already coming down all on it's own. Tear the building down. It’s built like a brick smilehouse. Look at the foundation and steel framing. It can be gutted and stripped to the frame in a way that makes reuse possible. (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/0basement.jpg) (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/0construction-2.jpg) (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/0construction3.jpg) Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: Conan71 on December 22, 2019, 12:43:21 am It’s built like a brick smilehouse. Look at the foundation and steel framing. It can be gutted and stripped to the frame in a way that makes reuse possible. (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/0basement.jpg) (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/0construction-2.jpg) (http://www.abandonedok.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/0construction3.jpg) Nice find on the old pics! Title: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on June 22, 2020, 09:57:44 am Asbestos abatement work planned for Abundant Life building.
https://www.deq.ok.gov/2020-news-releases/deq-and-city-of-tulsa-join-forces-to-cleanup-asbestos-in-the-abundant-life-building/ Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: shavethewhales on June 22, 2020, 10:25:50 am I glanced at it while driving past a couple weeks ago and noticed that the lower levels looked like they had been covered with fresh mortar/stucco/whatever. Probably to keep the asbestos contained better.
When they say they are "cleaning it up", does that mean demolishing the building? At the very least I assume they will have to gut the structure to get it out. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on June 22, 2020, 01:20:16 pm I glanced at it while driving past a couple weeks ago and noticed that the lower levels looked like they had been covered with fresh mortar/stucco/whatever. Probably to keep the asbestos contained better. When they say they are "cleaning it up", does that mean demolishing the building? At the very least I assume they will have to gut the structure to get it out. Typically asbestos abatement does not require the demolition of the building structure, but they may need to do this in order to demolish the building. Based upon the construction pictures provided, it seems there is a substantial metal superstructure, so it might make sense to remove the exterior concrete panels, and reconfigure with a modern skin. I would be curious to know where they found asbestos, but I anticipate they are referring to interior sources, e.g., it could reside in floor tile, ceiling tile, boiler(s), popcorn ceiling treatment, etc. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: SXSW on June 23, 2020, 04:25:44 pm So they are abating it but not repurposing it? What is the point of doing that? Hopefully once abated it gets torn down, it is one of the biggest eyesores in the city.
Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on June 23, 2020, 04:57:23 pm So they are abating it but not repurposing it? What is the point of doing that? Hopefully once abated it gets torn down, it is one of the biggest eyesores in the city. I don't have any inside knowledge on what they are doing with this project, but I am familiar with asbestos renovation/demolitions, generally. Maybe the exterior panels will be part of the planned asbestos removal. To your 2nd questions, based upon the pictures provided above, the exterior panels appear to be removable considering the underlying metal superstructure. As such, I suspect if the panels are removed, it would then make sense financially to rebuild around the existing metal structure ... but that is a guess. Several years ago, I believe they did something similar with the building at 1307 South Boulder, i.e., removed the exterior panels and rebuilt around the existing structure. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: DowntownDan on May 05, 2022, 08:39:17 am I was nearby today and it looked like they were building something in the parking lot just north of this building. It almost looked like an outdoor pavilion and not the shell of a building, but I only caught a glimpse. Any ideas what they are doing there?
Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: shavethewhales on May 05, 2022, 09:27:50 am Hopefully something in preparation to demolish the building... I know Oral Roberts Ministries is still alive, but do they still own the building? Surely it has to come down eventually.
Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: LandArchPoke on May 05, 2022, 02:46:36 pm This is owned by Sharp Development, they are using this as a staging site for The Brut. They are building these 'pod' things that are going on top of the existing building that will be the rooftop bar/restaurant for the Brut.
I don't know what Sharp's plans are for the Abundant Life Building but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't something similar to The Brut redevelopment. Some sort of hotel and maybe a parking garage and retail. Likely would just strip most of the building down to the skeleton and rebuild it. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: BKDotCom on May 05, 2022, 03:38:30 pm Interesting. I was unaware of the Brut hotel
I knew they've been working on the building. Looks nice. https://www.bruthotel.com/ Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on May 05, 2022, 04:28:02 pm This is owned by Sharp Development, they are using this as a staging site for The Brut. They are building these 'pod' things that are going on top of the existing building that will be the rooftop bar/restaurant for the Brut. I don't know what Sharp's plans are for the Abundant Life Building but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't something similar to The Brut redevelopment. Some sort of hotel and maybe a parking garage and retail. Likely would just strip most of the building down to the skeleton and rebuild it. Thanks. Have been driving by the Abundant Life building weekly trying to figure out why there were building something in the parking lot. Also, really hope that building gets the treatment you described. The asbestos project was apparently extensive. Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: SXSW on May 06, 2022, 10:14:04 am This is owned by Sharp Development, they are using this as a staging site for The Brut. They are building these 'pod' things that are going on top of the existing building that will be the rooftop bar/restaurant for the Brut. I don't know what Sharp's plans are for the Abundant Life Building but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't something similar to The Brut redevelopment. Some sort of hotel and maybe a parking garage and retail. Likely would just strip most of the building down to the skeleton and rebuild it. Sharp also just won the RFP for the redevelopment of the Riverside Route 66 site and plans to do a small hotel there. I'm interested to know what their plans are for Abundant Life. They own the entire half block along Boulder except the 6k sf parcel at the south end along 18th St Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: AdamsHall on July 10, 2022, 11:00:47 am Sharp also just won the RFP for the redevelopment of the Riverside Route 66 site and plans to do a small hotel there. I'm interested to know what their plans are for Abundant Life. They own the entire half block along Boulder except the 6k sf parcel at the south end along 18th St I have only heard that they intend to redevelop the site, so not sure if they will strip the building to the iron or not. Update article on The Brut in the TW https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/boutique-hotel-the-brut-unveils-scenic-restaurant-bar-addition/article_23565fc4-fd53-11ec-9cf6-13faac80fdee.html Title: Re: Updates on Abundant Life Bldg (Tulsa Club moved to its own thread) Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 19, 2022, 06:59:42 pm FWIW, on Discovery they have a show called Mysteries Of The Abandoned Hidden America. S1 E2 has a segment on the Abundant Life Building with footage shot inside of it's current state. It does cover the rise and fall of Oral Roberts, most here already know the history, but ther are some photos of the building from it's time as the HQ for Oral.
Nothing on the future of the building though. It will air on Discovery on 12/1 at 8PM MST time, or it's available on COX On Demand now, probably on other services as well. |