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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: Double A on February 13, 2008, 02:24:17 pm



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on February 13, 2008, 02:24:17 pm
I can't wait to see how this will play out.

 County readies for talks with city on new jail pact


By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
2/10/2008

County officials are preparing for talks with the city on the terms of a new agreement for holding municipal inmates in the county jail.

Under the existing 10-year agreement, which expires June 30, the city does not pay a direct fee to house its inmates in the David L. Moss Criminal Justice Center.

"Right now I've been meeting with the Sheriff's Office and our fiscal officer," said County Commissioner John Smaligo, who is representing the county in the negotiations.

"We've discussed the terms of the original contract as well as terms we might like to see with the city of Tulsa."

The existing agreement calls for the city and the county to begin the negotiation process no later than Feb. 1. Failure to reach an agreement by May 1 is deemed to be notice of termination of the contract.

The current setup


Under the 10-year agreement between the city of Tulsa and Tulsa County, which covers operations of the Tulsa jail system that expires June 30:

    * City leases to the county the former city jail, on the third floor of the Tulsa Police Municipal Courts Building, 600 Civic Center, and the Adult Detention Center, 1727 Charles Page Blvd.


    * City agrees to equip and maintain a fully staffed evidence property room.


    * The agreement provides that the value of the detention center lease ($349,000 annually) and the value of the fully staffed evidence room (exceeding $400,000 annually) is equivalent to the city paying the county the cost of daily housing for 116 prisoners in the county jail.


    * Municipal prisoners are those held in the Tulsa jail on city of Tulsa misdemeanor charges.


    * If a person is injured during the course of an arrest by a city police officer, solely on a state charge or district court warrant, the county is responsible for all medical costs relating to the injury from the time the arrestee is accepted into the county jail.


    * City is responsible for municipal prisoners’ emergency medical care if such care is not available at the county jail.


    * City is responsible for all medical laboratory bills related to municipal prisoners.




Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wrinkle on February 14, 2008, 11:23:36 am
You're right, this is one to watch, and be entertained by.

No tellin' what's going to happen here, especially since the Sheriff's been on the public relations campaign on rates/State prisoners and medical costs lately.



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 28, 2008, 10:47:15 am
Deadline looms for new Tulsa Jail pact (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080726_16_A18_spancl928926")


By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
7/26/2008
Last Modified: 7/26/2008  2:18 AM

The city and county have less than a week to reach a new agreement to house municipal inmates at the Tulsa Jail.

County Commissioner John Smaligo, who is representing the county in the negotiations, told the Tulsa County Criminal Justice Authority on Friday that the deadline for an agreement is Aug. 1.

"I've been a little bit frustrated that they've had our offer since March 11 and we've not gotten a counter (offer) yet from them," he told the authority, which includes the three county commissioners.

The existing 10-year agreement was set to expire June 30, but the two sides agreed to a 90-day extension, to Sept. 30.

However, the extension includes an Aug. 1 deadline to complete negotiations. Failure to do so would be to serve notice that the agreement would be terminated effective Sept. 30.


It looks like Queen Kathy has been so preoccupied with the BOK/Great Plains settlement  and the Ballpark, that's she has dropped the ball on this. It looks like city of Tulsa taxpayers will be left to pick up the tab. I swear, she 's never met a deadline she wouldn't miss or extend.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on July 28, 2008, 10:54:24 am
Before you pre-judge some failure or conspiracy...what do you know of the contract?

What changes and/or should be negotiated differently from the old contract?

Do you have any better contract language or are you just throwing bombs without looking?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on July 28, 2008, 11:14:30 am
I wish we could void the entire contract and move the jail out of our downtown along with the dollar per year lease agreement.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: MH2010 on July 28, 2008, 12:51:02 pm
I'm real interested in this also.  This could change alot of things.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Friendly Bear on July 28, 2008, 01:23:45 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Deadline looms for new Tulsa Jail pact (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080726_16_A18_spancl928926")


By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
7/26/2008
Last Modified: 7/26/2008  2:18 AM

The city and county have less than a week to reach a new agreement to house municipal inmates at the Tulsa Jail.

County Commissioner John Smaligo, who is representing the county in the negotiations, told the Tulsa County Criminal Justice Authority on Friday that the deadline for an agreement is Aug. 1.

"I've been a little bit frustrated that they've had our offer since March 11 and we've not gotten a counter (offer) yet from them," he told the authority, which includes the three county commissioners.

The existing 10-year agreement was set to expire June 30, but the two sides agreed to a 90-day extension, to Sept. 30.

However, the extension includes an Aug. 1 deadline to complete negotiations. Failure to do so would be to serve notice that the agreement would be terminated effective Sept. 30.


It looks like Queen Kathy has been so preoccupied with the BOK/Great Plains settlement  and the Ballpark, that's she has dropped the ball on this. It looks like city of Tulsa taxpayers will be left to pick up the tab. I swear, she 's never met a deadline she wouldn't miss or extend.



Contracts can be indefinitely extended by mutual agreement of the two parties.

This is a manufactured crisis.

WHY Mayor Taylor can't manage routine city business better is another matter.

Maybe she HAS been concentrating more on the more self-aggrandizing, legacy-building OTC and Driller Stadium downtown projects.  

And, the $7.1 million pay-off to BOK.  Another hurry bum-rush deal for the city council.

Rather than the more mundane and routine function of finding secure housing for municipal prisoners.

And opening only 4 of 22 city pools from the city operating budget.




Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 28, 2008, 01:54:57 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Contracts can be indefinitely extended by mutual agreement of the two parties.

This is a manufactured crisis.

WHY Mayor Taylor can't manage routine city business better is another matter.

Maybe she HAS been concentrating more on the more self-aggrandizing, legacy-building OTC and Driller Stadium downtown projects.  

And, the $7.1 million pay-off to BOK.  Another hurry bum-rush deal for the city council.

Rather than the more mundane and routine function of finding secure housing for municipal prisoners.

And opening only 4 of 22 city pools from the city operating budget.






Oh how sad it is . . .

to have an axe (to grind) that is so big . . .

You swing so hard and take yourself down.

You don't know the status of the negotiations . . .

You don't know where they are at . . .

Heck, they still have time to make a deal.

But when your sole reason to post is to complain . . .

Why care if you are right or not?

Poor FB

[:X]


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 28, 2008, 02:32:23 pm
Hey Goldie locks, here's the status of negotiations.

"I've been a little bit frustrated that they've had our offer since March 11 and we've not gotten a counter (offer) yet from them," he told the authority, which includes the three county commissioners.

The City Attorney's Office did not respond to requests for comment.  

3 1/2 months of nada, zip, zero, zilch.  



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 28, 2008, 02:34:17 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Hey Goldie locks, here's the status of negotiations.

"I've been a little bit frustrated that they've had our offer since March 11 and we've not gotten a counter (offer) yet from them," he told the authority, which includes the three county commissioners.

The City Attorney's Office did not respond to requests for comment.  

3 1/2 months of nada, zip, zero, zilch.  





For some reason, I don't think you kjnow what you're talking about.  [}:)]


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Friendly Bear on July 28, 2008, 02:50:30 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Contracts can be indefinitely extended by mutual agreement of the two parties.

This is a manufactured crisis.

WHY Mayor Taylor can't manage routine city business better is another matter.

Maybe she HAS been concentrating more on the more self-aggrandizing, legacy-building OTC and Driller Stadium downtown projects.  

And, the $7.1 million pay-off to BOK.  Another hurry bum-rush deal for the city council.

Rather than the more mundane and routine function of finding secure housing for municipal prisoners.

And opening only 4 of 22 city pools from the city operating budget.






Oh how sad it is . . .

to have an axe (to grind) that is so big . . .

You swing so hard and take yourself down.

You don't know the status of the negotiations . . .

You don't know where they are at . . .

Heck, they still have time to make a deal.

But when your sole reason to post is to complain . . .

Why care if you are right or not?

Poor FB

[:X]



You may have missed Saturday's Lorton's World, what with sobering up from D-Fest?

What did you go as, a Goth, or a Pin-Cushion?

The cited Saturday news article indicated Commissioner Small-ego's frustration with a lack of City response, SINCE MARCH, on the municipal prisoner jail contract........

Calling Kathy Taylor?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 28, 2008, 03:08:03 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear

You may have missed Saturday's Lorton's World, what with sobering up from D-Fest?

What did you go as, a Goth, or a Pin-Cushion?

The cited Saturday news article indicated Commissioner Small-ego's frustration with a lack of City response, SINCE MARCH, on the municipal prisoner jail contract........

Calling Kathy Taylor?



I went as myself.  No piercings, not a goth.

You missed out on a great time -- talked to folks from all over the region who LOVED D-fest.  Funny how they can make it downtown, but you can't.

I read the article.

And that's what's funny . . . FB is such a troll he is just looking for something to complain about.

But you have no information at all, FB.  

Nada.

Zilch.

Squat.

Jack taco.

So you just make up stuff.

You have no point.

And I own you.

Poor FB.

[:O]


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 28, 2008, 03:38:36 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Hey Goldie locks, here's the status of negotiations.

"I've been a little bit frustrated that they've had our offer since March 11 and we've not gotten a counter (offer) yet from them," he told the authority, which includes the three county commissioners.

The City Attorney's Office did not respond to requests for comment.  

3 1/2 months of nada, zip, zero, zilch.  





For some reason, I don't think you kjnow what you're talking about.  [}:)]



Apparently, you don't.

The county's offer calls for the city to pay $54.13 per municipal inmate per day. Based on an estimated daily municipal inmate count of about 86, the annual cost to the city of such an agreement has
been estimated at $1.6 million.

The current setup:

* City leases to the county the former city jail, on the third floor of the Tulsa Police Municipal Courts Building, 600 Civic Center, and the Adult Detention Center, 1727 Charles Page Blvd.


* City agrees to equip and maintain a fully staffed evidence property room.


* The agreement provides that the value of the detention center lease ($349,000 annually) and the value of the fully staffed evidence room (exceeding $400,000 annually) is equivalent to the city paying the county the cost of daily housing for 116 prisoners in the county jail.




Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 28, 2008, 03:41:39 pm
Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 28, 2008, 04:49:03 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Hoss on July 28, 2008, 06:26:33 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



You're beginning to sound a little like a cub.

[:O]


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 28, 2008, 07:41:04 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



You're beginning to sound a little like a cub.

[:O]



Grrrr.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 28, 2008, 09:54:14 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 28, 2008, 10:48:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on July 29, 2008, 04:48:15 am
Please don't.

This forum is not intended to hurl insults at each other. Don't lower yourself to doubleA's level.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 29, 2008, 08:44:47 am
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.



You aren't worth the time.  You just regurgitated one side's quotes from a TW article.  I don't really care about what you think or say.



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: CoffeeBean on July 29, 2008, 10:33:24 pm
Can someone explain why the City should agree to pay anything?  By law, the County is obligated to accept arrestees delivered to the jail.  

What am I missing here?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 30, 2008, 12:03:14 am
quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.



You aren't worth the time.  You just regurgitated one side's quotes from a TW article.  I don't really care about what you think or say.





You got served, beyotch. Pure & Simple. That's why you're squealing like a stuck pig.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Hoss on July 30, 2008, 07:58:26 am
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.



You aren't worth the time.  You just regurgitated one side's quotes from a TW article.  I don't really care about what you think or say.





You got served, beyotch. Pure & Simple. That's why you're squealing like a stuck pig.



^
^
Lookie....it's an Internet Tough Guy!!


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wrinkle on July 30, 2008, 08:33:47 am
quote:
Originally posted by CoffeeBean

Can someone explain why the City should agree to pay anything?  By law, the County is obligated to accept arrestees delivered to the jail.  

What am I missing here?



You're missing nothing, and are correct.

For the County to request payment in any form from the City is double-dipping since citizens are paying the County to run the jail.

It was designed as a City/County arrangement from the outset. Nothing has changed, and we still pay the tax to pay for the operation.

And, since the tax is Sales-based, it has a built in inflation factor to offset increased operational costs.

What should be being discussed is all the revenue the County is receiving from prisoners, their families and misc charges piled onto them in the form of daily rent, condiments, telephone calls, etc. How much revenue is this producing? Where is the accounting for this posted?



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Gold on July 30, 2008, 01:57:05 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.



You aren't worth the time.  You just regurgitated one side's quotes from a TW article.  I don't really care about what you think or say.





You got served, beyotch. Pure & Simple. That's why you're squealing like a stuck pig.



No, I think you're a waste of time.  You're not a weirdo like FB that cries.  You're just annoying . . . like the security guy at my building.  I don't give a damn what your game is . . . state your nonsense all you want.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on July 30, 2008, 04:54:30 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.



You aren't worth the time.  You just regurgitated one side's quotes from a TW article.  I don't really care about what you think or say.





You got served, beyotch. Pure & Simple. That's why you're squealing like a stuck pig.



No, I think you're a waste of time.  You're not a weirdo like FB that cries.  You're just annoying . . . like the security guy at my building.  I don't give a damn what your game is . . . state your nonsense all you want.



Yet, you keep responding to my posts. Face it, you can't hang. Amateur.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Hoss on July 30, 2008, 06:33:59 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

quote:
Originally posted by Gold

Yeah, I think you're kicking up some dirt over nothing.  Let it play out.



Yeah, 1.6 million is nothing to folks like you and  Queen Kathy. I wonder how many pools we could open with 1.6 million or how many police we put on the street with that amount of cash?



Oh . . . another cheap shot at the mayor.

Did you get that tinfoil hat on sale?

Seriously . . . if you, Bear, and Medlock are against it, it's probably a good thing.



C'mon Golden Shower, is that the best rebuttal you've got. You can't argue the issue, so all you've got left is insults? Don't worry though, I don't go crying to the Mod like most of the candy asses here. Fire away.



You aren't worth the time.  You just regurgitated one side's quotes from a TW article.  I don't really care about what you think or say.





You got served, beyotch. Pure & Simple. That's why you're squealing like a stuck pig.



No, I think you're a waste of time.  You're not a weirdo like FB that cries.  You're just annoying . . . like the security guy at my building.  I don't give a damn what your game is . . . state your nonsense all you want.



Yet, you keep responding to my posts. Face it, you can't hang. Amateur.



Or you keep responding to them...which is it?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on July 31, 2008, 11:41:16 am
Thisstringisdevolving


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Double A on August 02, 2008, 02:13:06 am
City, county might extend jail negotiations (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080731_16_A4_spancl168950")


By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
7/31/2008

The city and county are considering extending negotiations on a new jail agreement.

In an e-mail sent to county commissioners this week, the City Attorney's Office wrote that it is prepared to keep negotiating, if necessary, until the contract expires Sept. 30.

City Attorney Deirdre Dexter said Wednesday, "We share the same objective: We're trying to find a solution that best serves the citizens of Tulsa and make sure their tax dollars are being spent responsibly."

County Commissioner Fred Perry said the city's request will be discussed at the commission's meeting on Monday.

The original 10-year agreement was scheduled to expire June 30, but the two sides agreed to extend it until Sept. 30.

The extension included a provision that the two sides be working toward an agreement by Aug. 1.

The county's initial contract proposal, presented in March, calls for the city to pay $54.13 per municipal inmate per day.

Our CEO Mayor never met a deadline she couldn't miss or extend, except for the BOK/Great Plains bailout or the bucks for the downtown Ballpark(Lamson still ain't signed s#*t.)  Oh wait, I'm wrong, she had already extended that deadline once and extended it again after that extremely time critical Council vote. My mistake.




Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wilbur on September 25, 2008, 05:18:48 am
If something isn't worked out here, the citizens of this city will be the big losers.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080924_11_hr637816

Our elected officials are arguing over who gets to spend more money while law enforcement efforts take a back seat.  That's pathetic!

Read that Tulsa World article closely and understand what is being said if an agreement is not worked out.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wilbur on November 27, 2008, 10:13:26 am
Still no better.

Mediation takes two sides.  A one sided argument gets no place.

Not only will this get more expensive for everyone, a law suit to sue ourselves just spends more money.  Ain't gov'ment great?  Who's looking out for us citizens?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081127_11_A1_hCityc958332


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 27, 2008, 11:01:54 am
Let me be sure I am getting this right...the city owns this big medium security place just west of downtown. They gave it free rent to the county who then rented it out to a county authority who then sublet part of it to a contractor to keep inmates.

The missing part of the story is how much annual rent could be received from the Adult Detention Center on Charles Page.

Is the rent enough to be $1.6 million dollars? That would be $133,000 a month.  

What would it cost for the county to build their own facility?

Why do some prisoners stay in the county jail just north of the arena and other prisoners stay in this facility over by the river?

Why does the county run one facility and contract out the other?

Sorry to ask so many questions...I just am ignorant on this issue. I just probably need to get arrested more so I can make up my own mind...


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: shadows on November 30, 2008, 06:33:55 pm
Lets see, the Queen and her Court does not want to divi-up any money that is considered because of increased inflation, needed for the stabilization of the funding of a joint venture it formed to build and operate the jail, that has been very controversial in operation since the day pre-subscribed bond money was made available.   Soon as Tulsa secedes from Oklahoma, and the Indian Nations, forming another county or state, we will be able to form another Trust (or find one in the trash basket) buying the former county of Tulsa out, with the revenue derived from the finds paid by the occupants of the jail.  

The drawback would be someone would have to account for the fine monies that is collected dedicated to payoff the bonds.  


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 30, 2008, 08:25:49 pm
Wrong again shadows.

The county owns and operates the jail. The city (or Queen and her court...as you have called the Mayor and the council) did not form "a joint venture" to build a jail.

It must be great to not be bound by actual facts in your statements.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wilbur on December 03, 2008, 05:52:07 pm
Someone is getting red in the face, and it looks like a county commissioner.  Why?  Because his side of the argument, which is now out in the paper, looks terribly one sided for the county as they try to make even more profit off the jail then they're already making.  And that wasn't supposed to be known!

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081203_11_0_Thecit537862

http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=61&articleid=20081203_61_A18_Teodso156492


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 08, 2008, 08:11:54 am
When the jail was proposed the public perception was that it was a replacement for the existing jail system. No one could have foreseen that the relationship between the city and the county would break down as badly as they have.

Part of Smaligo's argument is that all of the other Tulsa county municipalities have their own jails that they use for their offenders. That's great, but Tulsa was told this would be our new permanent jail. Does anyone know how many inmates Tulsa sends to Moss? Do we have enough room for these people if we kick the county out of our pre-existing city facilities?

I say let the county have their jail. Let's move out and vote to end the City of Tulsa's portion of the tax. Maybe Smaligo can get his constituents in Owasso to spring for a new jail to be built in their downtown.

In any regard I hope this is the first thing on Karen Keith's agenda.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: pmcalk on December 12, 2008, 08:08:34 am
City has filed suit against the county:

quote:
Tulsa County has failed to live up to the representations it made to the citizens of Tulsa regarding the 1995 permanent jail tax, a lawsuit filed by the city of Tulsa on Thursday alleges.

"The county proposed a sales tax in 1995 that the city fully supported based on the county's promise that the jail tax would relieve the city of its obligation to pay jail operating costs," the lawsuit, filed in Tulsa County District Court, states.

The city's suit also accuses Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glanz of interfering with negotiations between the city and county over a new jail agreement to create "more money-making opportunities for himself and the county."

"Sheriff Glanz has consistently applied pressure to the (Board of County Commissioners) and other county officials, urging dramatic changes to and substantial fee increases in the renewed jail system agreement," the lawsuit alleges.

The lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction preventing the county from charging the city a direct fee to house its inmates in the Tulsa Jail.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081212_16_A1_TulsaC815242


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wilbur on December 12, 2008, 08:14:46 am
Recall the sales tax dedicated to the jail, tell Tulsa County to get their own Adult Detention Center, communications center, records center, ...., then Tulsa can pay $54 per prisoner.

Tulsa County claims other cities have their own jail.  True.  Other counties also have their own communications centers, records centers, ......  I guess fair is fair.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 13, 2008, 11:38:46 am
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

Recall the sales tax dedicated to the jail, tell Tulsa County to get their own Adult Detention Center, communications center, records center, ...., then Tulsa can pay $54 per prisoner.

Tulsa County claims other cities have their own jail.  True.  Other counties also have their own communications centers, records centers, ......  I guess fair is fair.



Wilbur, your right fair is fair. The county has offered the city 27 beds without charging them a dime as an offset for all of those services. If the city doesnt want to do that, then the county has handeled its own communicaitons before and can likely do it again.

I live in unincorporated Tulsa County. Why should part of my taxes go to pay for city iof Tulsa inmates. The people in Glenpool, Jenks, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Owasso, Collinsville, Skiatook, and Sperry dont expect me to help pay for theirs, so why should I help pay for Tulsa's?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 13, 2008, 11:49:37 am
Carlton "That's great, but Tulsa was told this would be our new permanent jail."

The only thing that was voted on was a County wide sales tax to build and operate a County jail. There was no mention on the ballot of a city-county jail. There was an contract between the city and the county regarding jail operations at that time that was renewed and expired in July of this year.

If the people and the leaders of Tulsa thought that the new jail was going to permanently house city prisoners then the contract should have been written that way. Since it was not, then I guess you should be mad at city leaders who failed to do so, not the county.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nathanm on December 13, 2008, 03:54:19 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nsugrad_05


I live in unincorporated Tulsa County. Why should part of my taxes go to pay for city iof Tulsa inmates. The people in Glenpool, Jenks, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Owasso, Collinsville, Skiatook, and Sperry dont expect me to help pay for theirs, so why should I help pay for Tulsa's?


Because Tulsa provides free services to the County. And there are more Tulsans in Tulsa County than there are not Tulsans. We pay more of the tax that supports the jail in the first place.

I think the most fair thing to do would be for Tulsa to stop providing free services to the county and for the county to charge all cities the DOC rate for every inmate who is in the county jail more than six hours or so and a nominal fee for those who are housed for less than that time.

Those free inmates, btw, are worth only about $500,000..estimates I've seen for city services provided to the county at no charge are much higher than that.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 13, 2008, 05:33:43 pm
So basically because more people live in the city limits of Tulsa then Tulsa should be given preferential treatment? Everyone in the county pays the same % on the sales tax.

I am not aware of any service that the city provides for free. The city allows the county use the old city jail facility for a court holding area, but there is no service provided by the city that's free of charge.

Anyway, having read the lawsuit, to a regular guy I dont see any legal reason that requires the county to hold city inmates. This lawsuit will be good for Mr. Wogelmouth financially, but I bet dollars to donuts that the city loses.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: sgrizzle on December 13, 2008, 07:34:55 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nsugrad_05

So basically because more people live in the city limits of Tulsa then Tulsa should be given preferential treatment? Everyone in the county pays the same % on the sales tax.

I am not aware of any service that the city provides for free. The city allows the county use the old city jail facility for a court holding area, but there is no service provided by the city that's free of charge.

Anyway, having read the lawsuit, to a regular guy I dont see any legal reason that requires the county to hold city inmates. This lawsuit will be good for Mr. Wogelmouth financially, but I bet dollars to donuts that the city loses.



The majority of those paying the Jail Tax are city of Tulsa residents, yet people arrested in the city are likely done by City PD who then have to pay, again, to keep them.

The County has thousands of feet in office space for free, the county used the Tulsa police dispatch services and well as TRACIS for free. The total asked for by the city last time was a cash equivalent of a little over $500,000 a year. The city lawyers proposed cutting off all the free things the city gives the county and it would cost them Millions.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 14, 2008, 03:35:13 am
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:
Originally posted by nsugrad_05

So basically because more people live in the city limits of Tulsa then Tulsa should be given preferential treatment? Everyone in the county pays the same % on the sales tax.

I am not aware of any service that the city provides for free. The city allows the county use the old city jail facility for a court holding area, but there is no service provided by the city that's free of charge.

Anyway, having read the lawsuit, to a regular guy I dont see any legal reason that requires the county to hold city inmates. This lawsuit will be good for Mr. Wogelmouth financially, but I bet dollars to donuts that the city loses.



The majority of those paying the Jail Tax are city of Tulsa residents, yet people arrested in the city are likely done by City PD who then have to pay, again, to keep them.

The County has thousands of feet in office space for free, the county used the Tulsa police dispatch services and well as TRACIS for free. The total asked for by the city last time was a cash equivalent of a little over $500,000 a year. The city lawyers proposed cutting off all the free things the city gives the county and it would cost them Millions.



The dispatch and records (TRACIS) is on its own contract that the county pays for. I think it is around 1,000,000 per year. The county and the city of Catoosa each share the cost of the regional dispatch.

The only thing the county gets without paying money for is the 3rd floor of the city courts building that is used for holding inmates going to court.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 15, 2008, 08:15:41 am
The city also provides the ADC on Charles Page to the county for $1 per year which the county then sublets to another entity.

You don't want to pay for my inmates? What if I and the rest of the citizens of Tulsa decided we don't want to pay for county roads or emergency services to unincorporated areas? Would you be your own fire department? Would you pay for your own rural school? This bad blood between the county and the cuty can only lead to an every man for himself mentality and I'm sure that the county would be on the losing end of that outcome.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 15, 2008, 10:49:32 am
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace

The city also provides the ADC on Charles Page to the county for $1 per year which the county then sublets to another entity.

You don't want to pay for my inmates? What if I and the rest of the citizens of Tulsa decided we don't want to pay for county roads or emergency services to unincorporated areas? Would you be your own fire department? Would you pay for your own rural school? This bad blood between the county and the cuty can only lead to an every man for himself mentality and I'm sure that the county would be on the losing end of that outcome.



My area has an independent school district and a fire department. We BUY water from the city of Tulsa and that about it. Your anger is misplaced. If the city thought that this was going to be a permanent solution, then they should have had that in the contract. They did not do that, therefore the city has themselves and their leadership to blame.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 15, 2008, 12:45:14 pm
quote:
Originally posted by nsugrad_05
If the city thought that this was going to be a permanent solution, then they should have had that in the contract. They did not do that, therefore the city has themselves and their leadership to blame.



I don't understand. There is a good contract for all these years and then the county wants a couple of million extra dollars a year and it is the city's fault?

I could argue both sides of this...but you seem to blame the city completely. What is your position with the county?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 15, 2008, 05:10:04 pm
The county has run the jail for the last 3 years, very successfully in my opinion. The bad releases are way down, there have been no major incidents for quite some time, and there have not been any successful lawsuits against the Sheriff's Office.

The cost to house inmates has been in an upward trend for years, due to higher food and utility prices. Not to mention all of the extra stuff that the operator of the jail is required to do based on new legislation and case law.

Very simply however, the tax vote in 1995 was to build and operate a County Jail. That is what the ballot read and that is what the voter's passed. The agreement between the city and county was extended several times to what was eventually 11-12 years. The county determined that the rate of 54.13 was the fair rate to charge ANY (not just Tulsa) municipality that wanted to house any municipal inmates.

Due to the previous relationship with the city, the county offered to house 27 inmates at no direct cost to the city in order to offset any rent that was due the city for the use of the 3rd floor holding area and the old ADC.  

The county made its initial proposal several months before the current agreement expired. Mayor Taylor and the city chose to sit on it and not even counter until the current contract had already expired. Then when it came down to it, the city found itself in a bind and had to do something to save face and started screaming how this was unfair. I have said before, if the city of Tulsa thought the agreement was going to be perpetual then they should have gotten that in the contract.

Voters in the city of Tulsa did not vote on a City-County jail, the ballot was to build and operate a county jail. And to say otherwise, is dishonest or ignorant, in my opiniom. No offense intended.

It is my opinion that the city is demanding preferential treatment due to the fact that the city is bigger than everyone elsea and for no other reason.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 15, 2008, 05:21:26 pm
How much money did the other communities pay to Tulsa County last year to house their municipal prisoners?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: inteller on December 15, 2008, 09:43:56 pm
you know, I think it is highly ironic that KKT is suing on the basis that the voters were misled on the intent of the bond passed for a "city-county jail".  On that basis I should sue her for allocating $3mill from third penny money for street widening under the guise of "stimulating private economic development".

She better watch out opening that pandora's box because if she is successful get ready for a boatload of qui tam suits.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 15, 2008, 10:12:32 pm
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

How much money did the other communities pay to Tulsa County last year to house their municipal prisoners?



Thats the point. All of the other cities have their own city jails to hold municipal prisoners. The county has in the past however held a handful for at least one city. I dont know what the fee was but I know there was one. It was a situation where the city judge ordered a defendant to serve 10 days. That particular town only has a holding facility and was unable to hold them for the time alloted by the judge. So that town paid a fee to the county. Again, I think that this has happened a couple of times.

So the other towns in the county pay for their city jail as well as the sales tax for the county jail.

The resolution passed by the county commissioners earlier this year, however, now sets out that any city in the county will have to pay $54.13 per day to house municipal prisoners.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 16, 2008, 06:48:12 am
But today's paper says that no other area town has paid to house prisoners. Ever. The only community to house prisoners will suddenly start getting a bill for it.

So this isn't some fairness thing like you claim. This is Tulsa County just wanting to charge the City of Tulsa more money.

It all sounds like payback for the city annexing the fairgrounds to me.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 16, 2008, 07:24:13 am
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

But today's paper says that no other area town has paid to house prisoners. Ever. The only community to house prisoners will suddenly start getting a bill for it.

So this isn't some fairness thing like you claim. This is Tulsa County just wanting to charge the City of Tulsa more money.

It all sounds like payback for the city

annexing the fairgrounds to me.



Not sure about the paper. But I know for sure it has happened at least twice.

What does the county lose from the city annexing the fairgrounds? On the surface that doesnt seem to make since. The county will still run everything out there, wont they? Really the only thing that will change is law enforcement.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 16, 2008, 01:23:53 pm
I really don't have much of a dog in this hunt. I also don't know nothin' about no jail operations. I have never been in the facility since it opened and I hope to keep that streak alive.

I didn't have an opinion until I read that the Tulsa County Jail showed a profit last year and still wants to get two million dollars more per year from the City of Tulsa.

I am just amazed that this whole thing has come up. The contract terms seemed fair 13 years ago and now the county says they are not. I know that operation expenses have gone up over the 13 years, but so has the amount of dedicated funding that is used to pay for operations.

This was the first time the county was able to tap into the funding area of sales tax. The vote back then would have never passed without the City of Tulsa's support. I personally don't like the county in the sales tax business nor the city in the property tax business, but voters must have felt otherwise.

Again, this all sounds like some payback to me.

Now, the county has said that Tulsa can't use the law firm they contracted with because that same firm has done some county work. Also yesterday, they decided to spend public dollars hiring defense attorney Clark Brewster to represent the Sheriff.  

This is a very interesting, public, and sad crumbling of the relationship between the city and the county.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: godboko71 on December 16, 2008, 05:21:36 pm
*Thinks that the other towns within the county having to pay is a moot point, because none of the towns in the county should have to pay twice to jail prisoners in the county jail.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wilbur on December 17, 2008, 06:13:56 am
quote:
Originally posted by godboko71

*Thinks that the other towns within the county having to pay is a moot point, because none of the towns in the county should have to pay twice to jail prisoners in the county jail.


The moot point is exactly correct.

Other towns have their own jails and house their own prisoners when the prisoner is arrested only on city misdemeanor charges.  The prisoner never goes to the country jail, so the town never gets billed.

If the prisoner is arrested on state charges, the prisoner goes to the country jail.  Since the prisoner is in the country jail on state charges, the town never gets billed.

It really is moot.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 17, 2008, 12:44:26 pm
If this jail was never meant to be used for City of Tulsa misdemeanor inmates, then why did we start using it as such? Why was it built in Tulsa?

Tulsa already had/has jail space for its misdemeanor inmates but that space is now used by the county since we hold our inmates at the county jail which Tulsans pay the lion's share for.

I don't want the county jail in the city of Tulsa, especially if we can't/shouldn't keep people there overnight. I hope this goes badly so we can draw a straight line between what is city and what is county. They can get out of our rent free offices, our gratis holding cells at the court house and out of the minimal rent ADC. In turn we'll have space for our own. They want $54 per day, I say we give them nothing...nothing across the board.

Let's unravel the health department and the libraries and county parks while we're at it.  The city of Tulsa can collect the existing tax to support the ones that are inside city limits and the county can run the rest. I can't really think of any reason why I should pay for the Sherrif's gas or salary either.

Close the borders...money collected in the city of Tulsa can stay here. Let's end city to city to rural subsidies.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: nsugrad_05 on December 17, 2008, 02:21:24 pm
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace

If this jail was never meant to be used for City of Tulsa misdemeanor inmates, then why did we start using it as such? Why was it built in Tulsa?

Tulsa already had/has jail space for its misdemeanor inmates but that space is now used by the county since we hold our inmates at the county jail which Tulsans pay the lion's share for.

I don't want the county jail in the city of Tulsa, especially if we can't/shouldn't keep people there overnight. I hope this goes badly so we can draw a straight line between what is city and what is county. They can get out of our rent free offices, our gratis holding cells at the court house and out of the minimal rent ADC. In turn we'll have space for our own. They want $54 per day, I say we give them nothing...nothing across the board.

Let's unravel the health department and the libraries and county parks while we're at it.  The city of Tulsa can collect the existing tax to support the ones that are inside city limits and the county can run the rest. I can't really think of any reason why I should pay for the Sherrif's gas or salary either.

Close the borders...money collected in the city of Tulsa can stay here. Let's end city to city to rural subsidies.



The new jail houses city inmates because the city and county had a contract that expired July 1, 2008. The county jail was built in Tulsa because the courthouse is in Tulsa, where inmates go to court.

The county gets nothing free. Under the old contract, the city got 116 beds that it was not charged for as an offset for the use of the 3rd floor of the city building and the old ADC.

You pay for the sheriff's gas and salary because the laws of the state of Oklahoma make the Sheriff the primary law enforcemnet officer in the county.



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wilbur on December 17, 2008, 05:35:33 pm
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace

If this jail was never meant to be used for City of Tulsa misdemeanor inmates, then why did we start using it as such? Why was it built in Tulsa?

Tulsa already had/has jail space for its misdemeanor inmates but that space is now used by the county since we hold our inmates at the county jail which Tulsans pay the lion's share for.

I don't want the county jail in the city of Tulsa, especially if we can't/shouldn't keep people there overnight. I hope this goes badly so we can draw a straight line between what is city and what is county. They can get out of our rent free offices, our gratis holding cells at the court house and out of the minimal rent ADC. In turn we'll have space for our own. They want $54 per day, I say we give them nothing...nothing across the board.

Let's unravel the health department and the libraries and county parks while we're at it.  The city of Tulsa can collect the existing tax to support the ones that are inside city limits and the county can run the rest. I can't really think of any reason why I should pay for the Sherrif's gas or salary either.

Close the borders...money collected in the city of Tulsa can stay here. Let's end city to city to rural subsidies.


The city of Tulsa has not had its own separate city jail staffed by city of Tulsa employees in several decades.  They have always shared the jail and/or jail duties.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 17, 2008, 10:19:49 pm
I certainly don't want the city to be "beholding" to the county. Sorry we've taken so much for free. If it's time to end the agreement or contract and go our seperate ways then so be it. I hope the county has a great life with its new partner(s) after we go our seperate ways. I wish it nothing but the best.

We'll always treasure the time we've but it's time to move on with our lives.

Really, it's not you..it's me.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 19, 2008, 08:18:49 pm
Here we go, the gloves are off. The city/county relationship has officially disintegrated and it sure looks like spite to me for Tulsans approving a street improvement plan that includes taking over the county's 4-2-fix sales tax when it expires:

Tulsa World Article (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081219_11_0_TheTul588002")
Jail authority approves billing city for inmate charge
 
By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Published: 12/19/2008  11:45 AM
Last Modified: 12/19/2008  11:45 AM

The Tulsa County Criminal Justice Authority on Friday authorized invoicing the city of Tulsa for the $54.13 per inmate daily charge that is the focus of a lawsuit filed by the city against Tulsa County.
The authority’s decision was made following an executive session, during which Mayor Kathy Taylor, an authority member, was asked to leave by the rest of the members due to the pending litigation.

The city’s lawsuit, filed last week, accuses the county of failing to live up to the representations it made to Tulsans during the successful 1995 campaign for a permanent sales tax to fund jail operations.

Under the old agreement, which expired Nov. 30, the city paid no fee to house its municipal inmates in the Tulsa Jail in exchange for providing certain assets and services to the county.

But the county now maintains that increased operating costs require that the city pay a direct fee. The invoicing will start for the month of December.



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 19, 2008, 09:26:14 pm
So...a trust authority asked a full voting member of the authority to leave the room.

Wow.

I have never heard of that.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wrinkle on December 19, 2008, 11:42:10 pm
Wow is right.
Just when I think I've seen everything, our leaders pull another one out of the bag.

fwiw, the lawsuit is against the County, not the Criminal Justice Authority. The Authority has no right to make such a request, nor any reason to do so. They preempted the City's representative vote on the issue, the very reason our Mayor sits on this Board.

Actually, I'd question the ability of the County to bill the City for Authority services in the first place. The Authority IS the governing body of the jail, not the County. If the City is billed, it would seem to be directly from the Authority. The County is out of the picture from that standpoint, even if they do set rates, which also seems obtuse. The Authority should be setting and billing it's own rates. The purpose of an Authority is to segregate its' operations, especially from politically-motivated antics.

Strictly speaking, the Authority should also be billing the County the daily rate if they do that to Tulsa as well.





Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: Wrinkle on December 20, 2008, 12:11:39 am
I forget the exact rates, but the Authority finds acceptable, in some way, a rate half their proposed rate (something like $27.50/day) for State of Oklahoma prisoners. I don't see how they can charge one rate for some and another rate for others.

Under what statute/contract is the Authority/County required to accept the lower rate from the State?

Seems the City would be offered a comparable rate, or the City could contract for "the lowest rate charged by the Authority/County".

If the County can indeed set its' own rates, then the State would be required to pay that rate as well, instead of the State just announcing they'll reimburse at a particular rate. iac, the Authority/County wouldn't need to accept it, and would bill the State their rate anyway, or refuse to hold State prisoners.

As I see it, the County really has no horse in this race. The Authority governs the jail.



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 20, 2008, 10:44:55 am
IMO the county commissioners see the writing on the wall. 4-2-fix as a revenue stream for them is dead, the citizens of Tulsa will never approve another one. A new V2025 (V2050?) would be a non-starter so the county is effectively out of the sales tax collection business in a few years. Smaligo and Miller (and even Sally Bell) are to blame but Smaligo doesn't see it that way. Smaligo's actions and attitudes on this jail issue have been like those of a spoiled toddler.

It probably isn't in the realm of possibility, but what if the lawsuit goes in Tulsa's favor? If the court decides that the city of Tulsa has paid for the biggest part of this jail and that the ballot verbage was misleading; could it be possible that the city could gain ownership?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 20, 2008, 10:50:10 am
From the Tulsa World today:
Full Article (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081220_11_A15_TeTlaC604033")


It includes the same $54.13 per-inmate daily charge the county is demanding that Tulsa pay.

The contract also contains a definition of a municipal inmate that Tulsa officials are contesting.

It states that those held on city charges are considered municipal inmates, whether or not they are also held on state charges.

Taylor voted against the contract, noting the disagreement with the definition.



Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 20, 2008, 11:03:42 am
I don't know enough of the different status of inmates (I guess I just need to get arrested).

What laws do I break to be a municipal prisoner and what laws do I need to break to be a state prisoner?

Can I be a federal, a state, a county, and a municipal prisoner at the same time?

If so, who is responsible for payment?


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: carltonplace on December 20, 2008, 11:10:04 am
According to the contract any and all of the above would be paid by the city of Tulsa if there are municiple charges along with the others. So if you robbed a bank and then tripped over and injured a kitten during your escape you would be a guest of the city.


Title: New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms
Post by: MH2010 on December 20, 2008, 11:26:10 am
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I don't know enough of the different status of inmates (I guess I just need to get arrested).

What laws do I break to be a municipal prisoner and what laws do I need to break to be a state prisoner?

Can I be a federal, a state, a county, and a municipal prisoner at the same time?

If so, who is responsible for payment?



I'll try to clarify what the county is saying about prisoners the way I understand it.

No matter what additional charges (federal or state) a person has, if they have one municipal charge then they are considered a municipal prisoner.

For example, if someone was arrested for murder, rap, armed robbery ect. and have one municipal traffic warrant (i.e. speeding) then they would be considered a municipal prisoner.

If someone was arrested for a federal conspiracy charge or a federal possession of a firearm AFCF charge and had one municipal warrant (i.e. dog at large) they are considered a municipal prisoner.  

It doesn't even have to be TPD that arrests them.  If TCSO, BAPD, (any police department in Tulsa County), ATF, DEA, Secret Service, ICE, U.S. Marshals or FBI arrests anyone on any federal charge or state charge and they have a municipal warrant, the city of Tulsa is supposed to pay $54.13 a day for them.