The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Today’s local newspaper announced that the entrance to the Main Library will be remodeled with a treatment added that will match the colorful arch the Library erected about a year ago.  

There have been several threads this past year discussing the merits of Civic Center and individual buildings within Civic Center.  The Central Library was one building almost universally liked by experts and laymen alike.  Experts cited it as a fine example of Mid-Century Modernism.

There has also been ample discussion on TulsaNow about restoration versus remodeling, and how important it is for additions to resemble and maintain the design integrity of the original structure.

I would like to respectfully suggest that Tulsa is about to destroy the value of her Central Library by engaging in this ill-advised remodeling of the entrance.

I would also like to suggest that Tulsa revise its permitting process to include a review by an expert that will determine if proposed changes will destroy or maintain a structure’s design integrity.  I went through a process like that when I changed windows in a building in Oakland, California and I think Tulsa is sorely in need of a similar provision.

I just hate to see the continued, unrelenting destruction of our historic patrimony.  But we live in a town where our historic society itself has extensively remodeled (instead of restoring) two wonderful old mansions.

I'm hoping the library re-ups the idea of moving to 11th & Denver and let the old building be reused for something more appropriate.

I'm with Grizz on this one.

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Originally posted by Hometown

Today’s local newspaper announced that the entrance to the Main Library will be remodeled with a treatment added that will match the colorful arch the Library erected about a year ago.  

There have been several threads this past year discussing the merits of Civic Center and individual buildings within Civic Center.  The Central Library was one building almost universally liked by experts and laymen alike.  Experts cited it as a fine example of Mid-Century Modernism.

There has also been ample discussion on TulsaNow about restoration versus remodeling, and how important it is for additions to resemble and maintain the design integrity of the original structure.

I would like to respectfully suggest that Tulsa is about to destroy the value of her Central Library by engaging in this ill-advised remodeling of the entrance.

I would also like to suggest that Tulsa revise its permitting process to include a review by an expert that will determine if proposed changes will destroy or maintain a structure’s design integrity.  I went through a process like that when I changed windows in a building in Oakland, California and I think Tulsa is sorely in need of a similar provision.

I just hate to see the continued, unrelenting destruction of our historic patrimony.  But we live in a town where our historic society itself has extensively remodeled (instead of restoring) two wonderful old mansions.

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The library is indeed a good example of mid-century modern architecture.  That new "whimsical" sign they added is an eyesore and detraction from the building.  A new entrance based on that thing??  Ewww....  I don't mind the concept of adding an entrance.  But it needs to either relate to the existing building or be transparent (for example, all glass...).

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Originally posted by tulsa1603

The library is indeed a good example of mid-century modern architecture.  That new "whimsical" sign they added is an eyesore and detraction from the building.  A new entrance based on that thing??  Ewww....  I don't mind the concept of adding an entrance.  But it needs to either relate to the existing building or be transparent (for example, all glass...).

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I agree with you Hometown and Tulsa1603; these recent entrance remodels are absolutely horrific.  Where is the Tulsa Historic Preservation Commission and their support of Tulsa's mid twentieth century architecture???  Surely, they can't support these abominations.

Indianapolis just about finished doing a re-build of the main library downtown, it will feature 250 computers and is 4 or 5 stories tall. It's due to open soon. It is huge!... The big thing I don't like about Tulsa libraries is they give you so little computer time only a hour per day. In Columbus, Ohio we get 3 hours per day PER BRANCH. In Indianapolis libraries they give you 2 hours per day system wide unless they have open vacant computers then you can get extra time if you want. In Tulsa it's 1-hour and that's that even if other computers and empty. That seems kinda cheap to me.[B)]

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Originally posted by sauerkraut

Indianapolis just about finished doing a re-build of the main library downtown, it will feature 250 computers and is 4 or 5 stories tall. It's due to open soon. It is huge!... The big thing I don't like about Tulsa libraries is they give you so little computer time only a hour per day. In Columbus, Ohio we get 3 hours per day PER BRANCH. In Indianapolis libraries they give you 2 hours per day system wide unless they have open vacant computers then you can get extra time if you want. In Tulsa it's 1-hour and that's that even if other computers and empty. That seems kinda cheap to me.[B)]

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The issue at hand is not about technology or computer access time; it is about preserving the mid-twentieth century architecture of Tulsa's Central Library.  The recent south Library entrance remodel was a major injury.  This new proposed north entrance remodel only adds insult to injury.  This topic is not about facilities or technology, but preserving our architectural heritage.

Tulsa Historic Preservation Commission, where in the heck are you!?!?!?!

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Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm hoping the library re-ups the idea of moving to 11th & Denver and let the old building be reused for something more appropriate.

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According to David Averill's extremely whiny editorial (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?articleID=060910_Op_G6_Twoye22771") from last September, the library directors probably won't attempt another bond issue for at least three or four years, and when they do the proposal most likely will be smaller and won't include a replacement for Central Library.  This may be why they are making alterations to the existing structure.  I think the curved sign at 5th & Denver was a total waste of money, BTW.

Averill's crybaby column is more than a year old now, and it contained some factual errors.  Averill could be very wrong about the replacement of Central Library, too.  Much can change in a year's time.  One of the reasons I voted against the new grand central library proposal was because it included plans to close Carson Avenue between 11th and 12th in order to create yet another superblock downtown.  I use Central Library very often, and I'm satisfied with it as it is.  I appreciate Tulsa's public library system.

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Originally posted by booWorld

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Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm hoping the library re-ups the idea of moving to 11th & Denver and let the old building be reused for something more appropriate.

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According to David Averill's extremely whiny editorial (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?articleID=060910_Op_G6_Twoye22771") from last September, the library directors probably won't attempt another bond issue for at least three or four years, and when they do the proposal most likely will be smaller and won't include a replacement for Central Library.  This may be why they are making alterations to the existing structure.  I think the curved sign at 5th & Denver was a total waste of money, BTW.

Averill's crybaby column is more than a year old now, and it contained some factual errors.  Averill could be very wrong about the replacement of Central Library, too.  Much can change in a year's time.  One of the reasons I voted against the new grand central library proposal was because it included plans to close Carson Avenue between 11th and 12th in order to create yet another superblock downtown.  I use Central Library very often, and I'm satisfied with it as it is.  I appreciate Tulsa's public library system.

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The problem with Central Library is that it is too small. Hardesty is larger than Central. The majority of their material is in storage instead of on shelves. They need to build a new central library, and a regional library in BA.

That is  pretty bad if the Tulsa Library is not saving the historic structure. Our Columbus Ohio Library expanded and built around the orgional 1904 structure and saved it. They did the same thing in Indianapolis, they saved the orgional building from 1907 and built the new library around it. I guess you can read about them on-line. Anyhoo, Tulsa needs to reverse course and save the orgional building. or so it seems to me.[8D]

Thanks for bringing up that editorial.  That bond issue failed for a number of reasons, but City Hall "turmoil" and the fringe-stream media (or whatever) had little to do with it.

Mainly, I think it was a lack of vision.  They had a chance to piggyback on v2025, but they pulled out.  They could have strengthened the "Downtowns" proposal with an important, integrated, design, but they opted out entirely thinking (presumably), "Tulsa'll never approve a billion dollar package".

Perhaps the even bigger "vision failure" was their plan.  When they finally rolled it out, it did not have any relationship whatsoever with the recently approved v2025 projects: Centennial Walk, arena, etc.  It was plunked on the edge of downtown on some free land and it looked like a Wal-Mart, i.e., box and giant parking lot.  Uninspired, unrelated, and pretty lame.

In part because of V2025, people were already thinking differently about downtown.  They were starting to think that we could have some of the  interesting, walkable, civic environments, just like the big cities we frequent.  The library board didn't "get it"; they continued to believe that "drive thru" convenience was the only thing Tulsans care about.

The downtown Wal-Mart is just a continuation of this discussion.  Only, now that that downtown really seems to be bouncing back, it's even more clear how these isolated, suburban, solutions just don't fit in.

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Originally posted by sauerkraut

That is  pretty bad if the Tulsa Library is not saving the historic structure. Our Columbus Ohio Library expanded and built around the orgional 1904 structure and saved it. They did the same thing in Indianapolis, they saved the orgional building from 1907 and built the new library around it. I guess you can read about them on-line. Anyhoo, Tulsa needs to reverse course and save the orgional building. or so it seems to me.[8D]

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We already ditched the original Carnegie building in favor of a big box library.  In 1961.

Well let’s put it this way.  You’ve seen Antiques Road Show.  You’ve seen the shock and disappointment when Aunt Clara founds out that her old pewter set would have been worth $50,000 if she hadn’t cleaned it.  Now it’s only worth $12,000 because of her silly mistake.

It’s that way with these old historic structures.  If they are in original condition they are worth much more.  Wear and tear is okay.  Altering the structure immediately diminishes the value.

So the day we tear off the old entrance to install the new entrance, the Central Library’s value will decrease dramatically.

This town has inherited so many important historic structures and at the same time it is almost completely clueless about what it has.

At the same time, however, it's important to maintain the structures in a manner that makes sure they continue to serve their purpose.  

In this case, it's making the apparently entrance-less library more open for new users, who don't know they have to park in a mildewed garage and enter through the basement.  

This is more like putting updates into a classic car to make it driveable daily, like air conditioning or modern seatbelts.  Sure, you alter the original design.  But you keep the thing user-friendly.

I don't think Central Library has ever been that inviting.  It's a consistent criticism of 20th Century Modern (see, e.g., previous discussion re: Brasilia).  This new entrance will help.  

It's worth remembering that the value of the building right now is as a functional library.  Anything that increases that functionality increases the value of the building.  The alternative is abandoning it, like an old car, for an upgrade.

These two different goals are not mutually exclusive.  Just more work to satisfy both and do it right.

Good point.  I'll be interested to see what they come up with.  The photograph in the World showed what looked like some extensive renovation.

Yes, they could have added a new entrance that enhanced the original architecture. Gave it a fresh and more welcoming look that way.  I wonder who in the city keeps allowing this type of thing to happen? Exactly who does make these descisions?

For right now, I'm fairly satisfied with the Central Library as it is.  And I use it -- very frequently.

The building has been altered many times since I moved to Tulsa in 1989.  The gold grilles above the north entry were removed a long time ago, probably because so many birds were roosting and nesting behind them.  So the north side of the building isn't in its original configuration, anyway.  The new north entry will not be at the centerline of the building.  I think the new design will appear off-balance, but I haven't seen any drawings of it, so I don't know.  

Central Library is large enough for me.  As the TMAPC pursues its insatiable quest to downzone inner city neighborhoods to incredibly low suburban densities, it makes sense to have more and larger libraries in the suburbs where the people who are paying for the library system actually live.

One of the reasons that so many items are in storage in the Central Library's basements is because the maximum circulation period is only two weeks.  I think they ought to try a four week circulation period with more generous renewals for books unless requested by another patron.  This would get more books off the shelves and out of the building, freeing up shelf space on the public floors so more of the collection could be brought out of the basements.

The Peggy Helmerich Award ceremony could be held somewhere such as the Mayo Hotel instead of on the second floor of Central Library.  That would open up lots of space for more items to be brought up from the basements.

Central Library has its problems, but it works for me.  I appreciate the great service that the Tulsa City County Library System provides.  There's no need to close Carson Avenue and create yet another superblock in downtown Tulsa.  Superblocks are urban destroyers.

 

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Originally posted by booWorld

For right now, I'm fairly satisfied with the Central Library as it is.  And I use it -- very frequently.

 The new north entry will not be at the centerline of the building.  I think the new design will appear off-balance, but I haven't seen any drawings of it, so I don't know.  

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If you havent seen any renderings, or plans how can you make an informed desision on the design?

I've heard several times on this board that the central library building could support two additional floors. Is this being explored as an option?

I hate the garage entrance, too, but the plaza level atrium leading to the staircase at the north end was awe-inspiring when I was a kid, and I still think it's pretty neat.

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Originally posted by joiei

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Originally posted by booWorld

For right now, I'm fairly satisfied with the Central Library as it is.  And I use it -- very frequently.

 The new north entry will not be at the centerline of the building.  I think the new design will appear off-balance, but I haven't seen any drawings of it, so I don't know.  

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If you havent seen any renderings, or plans how can you make an informed desision on the design?

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A librarian walked me through the design a few days ago.  He gave me a good explanation of the work being done and the reasons behind it.

However, without seeing renderings, I'm not certain if the design will appear to be off-balance or not.  If the north entry is intended to look like the new curved sign at 5th & Denver, then I think it will be off-balance and out of place in the sense of blending with the original building.

Library Will Reveal Plans for Central Makeover

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/201302/Central%20Library.jpg)

http://kwgs.com/post/library-will-reveal-plans-central-makeover (http://kwgs.com/post/library-will-reveal-plans-central-makeover)

An Update on the Renovation of the TCCL's Central Library in Downtown Tulsa

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/medium/public/201409/LibraryPhoto.jpg)

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/update-renovation-tccls-central-library-downtown-tulsa (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/update-renovation-tccls-central-library-downtown-tulsa)

Is this a Michael Sager project?

Is that a giant LED marquis?
If you're going to spend money like that, then spend it on some bulletproof glass along the courthouse side.  ;)

It is, but I got the impression that maybe it is some sort of e-ink type thing instead of normal LCD.

If it isn't they should consider it..
http://www.eink.com/large_area_signage.html

More curious... sure are a lot of people mingling about.. 
Maybe it's because it's garden movie night - or so the ginormous e-ink sign says

Those are trick or treaters and the garden movie is a scary one.

I don't think this graphic artist has ever seen the actual central library patrons.

Yeah...nice clothes, in shape, no garbage bags thrown over their shoulders...

  Not a fan of the interior redesign.  Looks like something meant to repel human beings.

Maybe that’s the idea to get rid of the usual "residents"

Like some kind of boiled cabbage repellant?

Beer through the nose hurts....damn you.