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Talk About Tulsa => Other Tulsa Discussion => Topic started by: KingMutt on August 30, 2007, 05:06:45 pm



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on August 30, 2007, 05:06:45 pm
Hey, I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I was reading through the posts about restaurants and some guy mentioned seeing a couple at Flemings.  A hot dark haired girl and a big guy who looks like Tony Soprano.  I've seen them before too out at other places. Mainly I was looking at the girl because she is smoking hot, but that dude carries himself like "Don't F with me" without saying anything. and today I saw the guy in a big Mercedes smoking a cigar.  I don't want to sound stupid or like I am stereotyping people, but he looks like a mobster.  Now I know that doesn't mean anything, but it leads me to this question:

Is there a Mafia in Tulsa? I am originally from Cherry Hill New Jersey, and someone who looks like that man is someone I would run like hell from.  So is there a mob in Tulsa?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: izmophonik on August 30, 2007, 05:17:40 pm
I can't say I've seen anyone like that around these parts.  I do recall the Mafia hit at Southern Hills in 1981 on Roger Wheeler but I think that was isolated.
There are plenty of trustfund kids that have grown up here.  I'm sure you ran across one that has plenty of money, a few businesses and lots of time on his hands.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: brunoflipper on August 30, 2007, 05:17:52 pm
ask whitey bulger...


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: inteller on August 30, 2007, 06:23:33 pm
go down to Kal's Chophouse and then tell me if you think there is mafia in Tulsa.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: joiei on August 30, 2007, 07:31:17 pm
A friend told me Kal's closed the day after the golfer left.  I haven't been down Lewis to check the rumor out.  Anybody have input as to it still being in business.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Aa5drvr on August 30, 2007, 07:46:06 pm
Concrete


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Breadburner on August 30, 2007, 07:47:45 pm
(http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/img/cast/character/big_pussy_bonpensiero.jpg)


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 30, 2007, 08:09:19 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Aa5drvr

Concrete


So true.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: shadows on August 30, 2007, 09:36:32 pm
There may not be a Santa Clause but they are invisible among us.  Their rule is “Don’t tread on us”.  You cannot profile them but it is presumed that Wheeler disregarded their motto.  Remember the reporter for the Tribune that wrote about the meeting in the motel?    


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: patric on August 30, 2007, 09:53:47 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Aa5drvr

Concrete


Many cities our size and larger it's trash collection and landfills, but coin-operated vending (money laundering) was big in NE OK for years.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Der Teufel on August 31, 2007, 01:43:50 am
I originally wrote about this couple in my post on best restaurants.  Kingmutt is correct, the woman is extremely attractive, and the Sopranoesque man is a little intimidating. My wife and I have seen them at some of Tulsa's better eateries.

However, regardless of who or what this couple is or is not, mutt does bring up an interesting question.  Is there organized crime in Tulsa, aside from the Roger Wheeler incident?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Aa5drvr on August 31, 2007, 03:34:38 am
This isnt the couple that frequents BBD at 81st and Harvard on weekends is it?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: BKDotCom on August 31, 2007, 06:58:11 am
Thread worthless without pictures.  [:D]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Der Teufel on August 31, 2007, 07:49:02 am
OT  Where is the best Italian eatery in the area?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Der Teufel on August 31, 2007, 07:50:08 am
OT  Where is the best Italian eatery in the area?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: izmophonik on August 31, 2007, 08:05:21 am
I think Ti Amo's is about the best I've had around here. I would also say Pomodori's is excellent as well.  Chicken Alfredo with sun dried tomoatoes ..mmmm.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: izmophonik on August 31, 2007, 08:06:43 am
Kal's is still open.  I hear radio ads all the time for them.

quote:
Originally posted by joiei

A friend told me Kal's closed the day after the golfer left.  I haven't been down Lewis to check the rumor out.  Anybody have input as to it still being in business.



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: dbacks fan on August 31, 2007, 08:36:06 am
quote:
Originally posted by Der Teufel

I originally wrote about this couple in my post on best restaurants.  Kingmutt is correct, the woman is extremely attractive, and the Sopranoesque man is a little intimidating. My wife and I have seen them at some of Tulsa's better eateries.

However, regardless of who or what this couple is or is not, mutt does bring up an interesting question.  Is there organized crime in Tulsa, aside from the Roger Wheeler incident?



Does anyone remember R&M Music Company? They owned just about every vending machine in Tulsa into the 1990's. They were always suspect of organizes crime.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on August 31, 2007, 09:00:28 am
No, Kal's Chophouse is dead.  Dead as a porterhouse steak.  Closed a couple weeks back.

Is there a mob in Tulsa?  Bob Dick is still in the area, so I'd say so.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: iplaw on August 31, 2007, 09:12:37 am
I've heard stories for years regarding one specific family with ties...my father worked with them for years.  Are they the Sporanos type...who knows?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 31, 2007, 09:31:08 am
Ever since this thread appeared, people have been trying to kiss my ring.

Youse guys need to be a little more quiet, ya know?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: stymied on August 31, 2007, 10:32:20 am
When I was 15 I worked at a dishwasher for a local steakhouse that started with an "F".  The rumor was that the owner was tied with the mob.  I heard many stories, but I saw with my own eyes several guys that were very busy leading up to the weekend bookmaking during football season.  The phone line that went to the room was also at the bar, as the bartender was one of the guys taking bets.  I was told never, ever answer that phone.  This was before cell phones.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: jne on August 31, 2007, 10:46:59 am
The simple answer to this thread is 'YES'  Anywhere you go, you can find well organized crime that usually has close 'family' ties.  

Unrelated (or related??), what happened to Kal's?  I was planning to go there real soon.  At all the Tulsa food events, they have some of the best to offer.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on August 31, 2007, 10:58:55 am
quote:
Originally posted by jne

The simple answer to this thread is 'YES'  Anywhere you go, you can find well organized crime that usually has close 'family' ties.  

Unrelated (or related??), what happened to Kal's?  I was planning to go there real soon.  At all the Tulsa food events, they have some of the best to offer.



Long story.  Look up the restaurants which are no longer in Tulsa thread under discussion.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Breadburner on August 31, 2007, 11:04:38 am
A Bar is dead as well.....I say Prive' will be next......


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: joiei on August 31, 2007, 11:49:07 am
About A Bar and Kitchen, there is a note on the door that they are closed until Sept 15th.  Maybe taking a vacation?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on August 31, 2007, 12:07:54 pm
OK. I talked to a guy I work with who has lived here for forty years.  He says that Kal's was not Italian.  That guy was from the Middle East.  He said there was once an Italian place close to there that was owned by a mob connected family.  He said that they had other businesses and that the guy Der Tuefel and I have seen (if it is the same one) is their cousin and a local attorney.  I don't want to say their names and get sued or worse[}:)]! He said they weren't people to screw around with and the attorney is evidently a mean SOB.

So have you guys ever heard anything like that?  And if it is true, how could a mobster get a law license?  Don't you have to have some kind of background check?

I could see that happening in New Jersey, but not here.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: iplaw on August 31, 2007, 12:17:38 pm
quote:
the attorney is evidently a mean SOB
Aren't they all?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on August 31, 2007, 12:30:34 pm
Kal was kind of a wannabe gangster.  You are correct, he is of Arab heritage, not Italian.  They had a "back room" that would kind of remind you of the back room at some of the "social clubs" around NYC and Jersey.

People have said for years that some of the  Lebanese families in the area are sort of like mafia families, though that's more hyperbole than fact.

Back in the '60's and '70's there was somewhat of an organized crime network.  Wealthy ranchers murdered mysteriously, judges getting their cars bombed, witnesses disappearing, prositution, drug, and gambling rings, state legislators with more power than the governor, governors being convicted of tax cheats, etc.  It's all true.  Whether or not it was connected to the KC, Chicago, Detroit, or NY mob is anyone's guess.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on August 31, 2007, 12:30:54 pm
I mean like he is violent and bad tempered or so I was told.

Of course, he must do something right to have such a hottie for a wife![:P][:D]

Ip, don't you have to have a background check to be a lawyer?

Do you know who these people are and if there's any truth to that?



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: iplaw on August 31, 2007, 12:45:32 pm
quote:
Ip, don't you have to have a background check to be a lawyer?
Unless you gots people on the inside...

(http://www.eva-longoria.net/forum/images/smilies/other/hiding.gif)


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on August 31, 2007, 01:50:31 pm
wait a minute, Kal is the guy wth the commercial that said, "We have the most beautiful steaks, the most beautiful lobster, the most beautiful desserts..."  I saw that on TV.  That was funny!

A Mafia wannabe. Why would anybody want to be in the Mafia?  Like I said, in Cherry Hill, we ran the other way from people who looked like that.

And the Italian/Goomba women are just as foul mouthed and bad.



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on August 31, 2007, 02:47:32 pm
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

wait a minute, Kal is the guy wth the commercial that said, "We have the most beautiful steaks, the most beautiful lobster, the most beautiful desserts..."  I saw that on TV.  That was funny!

A Mafia wannabe. Why would anybody want to be in the Mafia?  Like I said, in Cherry Hill, we ran the other way from people who looked like that.

And the Italian/Goomba women are just as foul mouthed and bad.





I dunno, why do suburban kids dress like urban kids and listen to 130 db's of rap when they are driving down the road.

Some people just identify with that.

The investors that I knew in the Kal's business were anything but gangsterish.  Kal is a character, but I wouldn't have hired him to run my chophouse.  Entertaining and charming front man.  Not a great manager.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: grahambino on August 31, 2007, 03:03:39 pm
As the godfather of the Grahambino crime syndicate, Tulsa Chapter.  I just felt I needed make my presence known in this thread.



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Double A on August 31, 2007, 03:21:00 pm
Well, I've heard a thing or two about a certain Mid-Town Mafia, ask Bates.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on August 31, 2007, 03:50:21 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Well, I've heard a thing or two about a certain Mid-Town Mafia, ask Bates.



Is that why our mayor is referred to as the "Godmother"?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: monterey1967 on August 31, 2007, 07:32:56 pm
back in the 60s i work at a resort at grand lake.  we had a regular guest named tony that was a owner of the canteen vending company.  it was rumored that he was a mobster.  he would always have the best car at the resort and a new blonde with him about every weekend.  bought a new chris craft about every two years. tony would give me a $5 bill for just putting ice in his boat ice chest.  lot of $ for a 16 year old in the 60s.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: cks511 on September 01, 2007, 02:13:13 pm
There were always stories about the 'family' who owned the Bates Motel across from East Central.  And, always the stories about the Avalon, the old location.  As usual I just know stories, no solid source.  But hey, what the heck.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: aoxamaxoa on September 01, 2007, 02:36:08 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

A Bar is dead as well.....I say Prive' will be next......



Doe's will be next....

And the mob left when Tommy's Continental went down.....


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: MichaelBates on September 01, 2007, 10:50:43 pm
quote:
Originally posted by cks511

There were always stories about the 'family' who owned the Bates Motel across from East Central.  And, always the stories about the Avalon, the old location.  As usual I just know stories, no solid source.  But hey, what the heck.



As far as I know, I'm not related to anyone connected with that place of accommodation, but I've been curious about it ever since I saw the name in an old phone book. If you know stories, I'd love to hear them -- post 'em here or PM me.

The fact that Tulsa had a real Bates Motel (Tourist Hotel, actually) ought to be something we could exploit as part of our overall Route 66 tourism strategy.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: waterboy on September 02, 2007, 10:13:18 am
I had a relative we used to visit back in the late fifties on a farm just west of the old Bates. They were pretty eccentric. Had an oil derrick in their front yard and operated a worm farm. The kids assured us the place was haunted. They had visited it and were too scared to even talk about it.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: shadows on September 02, 2007, 03:47:55 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by Double A

Well, I've heard a thing or two about a certain Mid-Town Mafia, ask Bates.



Is that why our mayor is referred to as the "Godmother"?


No, but it might be that recycle has some friends that are guardian’s for the family.   It seems that he stands guard over the city controllers to keep them from not being recycled with those with new ideas.
 


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: shadows on September 02, 2007, 04:20:38 pm
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:
Originally posted by cks511

There were always stories about the 'family' who owned the Bates Motel across from East Central.  And, always the stories about the Avalon, the old location.  As usual I just know stories, no solid source.  But hey, what the heck.



As far as I know, I'm not related to anyone connected with that place of accommodation, but I've been curious about it ever since I saw the name in an old phone book. If you know stories, I'd love to hear them -- post 'em here or PM me.

The fact that Tulsa had a real Bates Motel (Tourist Hotel, actually) ought to be something we could exploit as part of our overall Route 66 tourism strategy.



Best I remember was the Bates Motel and Filling Station well outside Tulsa, on the two lane paved road, was built by Sinclair.  It was build before the days of fast auto travel and too far out of town.  The roof was made of 1 inch black slate singles.  It, like the Camelot, was in a time frame that out children will look at the pictures and say why were they not preserved?.  


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: MichaelBates on September 02, 2007, 09:05:17 pm
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

I had a relative we used to visit back in the late fifties on a farm just west of the old Bates. They were pretty eccentric. Had an oil derrick in their front yard and operated a worm farm. The kids assured us the place was haunted. They had visited it and were too scared to even talk about it.



So by the late '50s, it had already been out of business for a while?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: waterboy on September 03, 2007, 10:35:31 am
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

I had a relative we used to visit back in the late fifties on a farm just west of the old Bates. They were pretty eccentric. Had an oil derrick in their front yard and operated a worm farm. The kids assured us the place was haunted. They had visited it and were too scared to even talk about it.



So by the late '50s, it had already been out of business for a while?



Memories of a child are suspect. But I know it was defunct in the mid sixties as we used to drive by there on the way to the lake.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Copperhead on September 03, 2007, 11:35:31 pm
Were I a politico who's been knocking down 146K a year, plus a few perks here and there, [;)] or maybe just a lucky schmuck in my business dealings - some to cover others - we'd invest our ill gotten gains - aka cash - in our bestest buddies big ole roundy-rounds - them things make sh*tloads of cash too - so now lots more cash we've got!  Our cash goes bye-bye off-shore to visit our other cash!  Taxes?  Taxes on what?  Cool deal Lucile?

Oh, we've got really cool deals, but letting it show be a real No, No.  We visit at our social club - Celeb's Only - or where da money runs, but them ponies don't!  It's just Our Thing! R we mob'd-up? . . . well of course not!  R we organized?  Yep, and it been working for years right here in River City! [:D]  Oh, and the voters R the real schmucks! [|)]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Hometown on September 04, 2007, 11:46:49 am
My father lived outside of Dallas next to an attorney for the Securities and Exchange Commission.  She was from Chicago and had done some work in Oklahoma for the SEC and when the conversation turned to Oklahoma she said she had never been anywhere as corrupt as Oklahoma.  But she was talking about our fine upstanding citizens.



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 04, 2007, 01:27:44 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown

My father lived outside of Dallas next to an attorney for the Securities and Exchange Commission.  She was from Chicago and had done some work in Oklahoma for the SEC and when the conversation turned to Oklahoma she said she had never been anywhere as corrupt as Oklahoma.  But she was talking about our fine upstanding citizens.





Makes sense why our political and legal systems are so corrupt then, eh?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on September 04, 2007, 01:37:31 pm
Not being from here, I don't get all of the inside jokes, but I do get an idea of what a lot of you are posting.

But no one has really answered my question:

Is there an Italian-American mafia here in Tulsa?

If so, are these people who owned a restaurant just south of Kal's for years a part of it?

Is the guy I described in my first post, who I was told is related to them, a part of it? If not who the hell is he?

If there is not, why don't you think the Mafia ever came to Tulsa?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Breadburner on September 04, 2007, 01:41:41 pm
No mafia in Tulsa....Now there have been some people who conduct there criminal activity like the mob.....There is really no money for the real mob here, no gambling (that they could get there hands into)....Not to mention they would stand out to much....And they also know Okies don't take any ****...heh....Too much risk too little reward.....The closest you would find any to Tulsa would be Frontenac Kansas and that was years ago.....


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 04, 2007, 02:07:43 pm
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

Not being from here, I don't get all of the inside jokes, but I do get an idea of what a lot of you are posting.

But no one has really answered my question:

Is there an Italian-American mafia here in Tulsa?

If so, are these people who owned a restaurant just south of Kal's for years a part of it?

Is the guy I described in my first post, who I was told is related to them, a part of it? If not who the hell is he?

If there is not, why don't you think the Mafia ever came to Tulsa?



I don't know what restaurant you are referring to south of Kal's unless it's Mondo's, and I never heard anything about the Aloisio family being in the mob.  If they came from Sicily, maybe past generations were involved.  Other than that, it would be pure speculation.

Anyone know if Abruzzi's (Rob's latest venture) is still in business?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: mr.jaynes on September 04, 2007, 02:40:59 pm
Back in the 1980s, I'd been party to a discussion about how La Famiglia some small representation in Green Country, specifically in Muskogee and Catoosa, though why in those places, I'll never know. May have had something to do with the presence of a port and a waterway.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Vision 2025 on September 04, 2007, 03:19:54 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

The closest you would find any to Tulsa would be Frontenac Kansas and that was years ago.....



Barto's ?



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: USRufnex on September 04, 2007, 03:39:54 pm
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

Not being from here, I don't get all of the inside jokes, but I do get an idea of what a lot of you are posting.

But no one has really answered my question:

Is there an Italian-American mafia here in Tulsa?

No.  But I suppose it's possible there are still a handful of people and businesses with "connections" but they don't really publish a directory... hmmm, from Cherry Hill, NJ to Tulsa, OK?... witness protection program? [;)]... I remember as a kid hearing about the Dixie mafia or Southern mafia?!?

But the Italian-American mafia?  The biggest story I ever remember was from over 25 years ago... but that was a hit by the Boston Irish mob and Whitey Bulger...
 http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/mob_bosses/james_whitey_bulger/4.html
quote:
...millionaire Roger Wheeler was shot to death in the parking lot of his country club in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Wheeler, the chairman of Telex Corp. and the owner of World Jai Alai, had come to suspect that the Winter Hill Gang was skimming profits from World Jai Alai's Connecticut offices, and he was threatening to blow the whistle on Bulger and company. A month later, millionaire Roger Wheeler was shot to death in the parking lot of his country club in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Wheeler, the chairman of Telex Corp. and the owner of World Jai Alai, had come to suspect that the Winter Hill Gang was skimming profits from World Jai Alai's Connecticut offices, and he was threatening to blow the whistle on Bulger and company.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_6_52/ai_75622962

So, no more Kal's???..... wanted to go there for grins but never made it... no more Pizzaria Uno either...

Dang... it was bad enough when my favorite pizza place as a kid closes down...  Godfather's Pizza -- "the pizza you can't refuse"...... now this?!?  [:O]



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Breadburner on September 04, 2007, 03:55:27 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025

quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

The closest you would find any to Tulsa would be Frontenac Kansas and that was years ago.....



Barto's ?





Heh.....


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: mr.jaynes on September 04, 2007, 04:17:08 pm
Oh yes, and there was this girl from my high school years, who was a friend of friends of friends of mine (very indirect), whom I knew in passing (I say in passing, since I attended my high school years at East Central, while she lived in South Tulsa and obviously attended school on that side of town). By name and appearance she was definitely Italian-American, as well as very attractive, definitely pampered and in want or need of nothing. I did however meet her father, who was in business with her uncle, and with the way they carried themselves, as well as their New York/New Jersey accents, you'd swear they were goodfellas. And you know, if they weren't, they had to be connected somehow.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 04, 2007, 04:34:51 pm
There was a restaurant in town called Joe Vigg's in the early 1990's.  The guy's name was Joe Vigliarolo.  When I was in there, he had some memorabilia on the wall.  One of the items was a "Vigliarolo Brothers Concrete" shirt from Brooklyn or wherever he came from.  Wouldn't have surprised me if he or someone in his family was "connected."


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Copperhead on September 04, 2007, 06:59:49 pm
Prior to his death in 2006, "Ripe Tony" Civella, KC's mob boss, and others reportedly laundered money by investing in the ownership of carnival rides, amusement games, some coin operated, some not, and other cash type amusement venues.  These investments provided great returns, especially since these are totally cash businesses, cash which quickly losses its identity, thus making tracing its origin virtually impossible.  Some carnivals operating on the East coast have long had such silent partners as well, and some suspect shipments of stuffed toys raised some red flags with the drug busters. [:O]

Additionally, due to their repetitive mobility, it appears some traveling carnivals have provided safe haven and employment for some very bad folks dodging the law. . . hey Whitey, I meant Bo-Bo! [:o)]

IRS is aware of these "business ventures," but have found it extremely difficult to track all the cash, most of which goes to foreign safe haven banks.  But not so long ago agents did succeed in collecting several million on "undeclared" income locally, [V] and as of this day the public corruption aspect of the cases languish, as time ticks on - who knows where these may lead, but likely it will be the proverbial who comes to the foot of the cross first, lets make a deal ending. . . only time will tell, not me! [xx(]

It can be said, some politicos should not be sleeping well at all, and not just locally either. [B)]  

Seemingly based on some "local activities," a joint task force has been working the cases for over ten years, including some rather suspicious over limit campaign contributions and "straw donor activity."  Enough said - see'ya in the funny papers. [^]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Der Teufel on September 05, 2007, 06:38:18 am
KingMutt, are you not being a bit obsessive?  Even if there were a mafia here, would they draw attention to themselves?


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: jne on September 05, 2007, 11:17:36 am
And...  
If any of us knew of anyone 'connected', would you expect us to name them on a public forum?  I type best with 10 fingers.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 05, 2007, 11:59:09 am
quote:
Originally posted by jne


I type best with 10 fingers.



[}:)]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: shadows on September 06, 2007, 07:18:09 pm

In the past I have operated a business of physically securing buildings.  Even today I would be fear full to point anyone in the direction where one might find one of the mob or gang or group.

Around 1990 I was called by an attorney who told me that the summery to the jury on a trial where the IRS v. ……….  would begin the next morning and that I should attend.   The charges stemmed from off shore banking and money laundering.  The security to gain admittance to the court room was so tight that after removing all metal from my pockets and waned; I still could not clear.  Having worn a dress sports coat, with two brass buttons on each sleeve, I was not permitted to enter the courtroom until I removed the coat.  After I passed through the detector I stuck the coat back into it and it went off again.

There was two attorneys representing the defendant from California who looked and acted like they just stepped off a stage.  They were the sharpest of  any lawyers that I have ever seen in action.  In the summation they made fun of the prosecuting attorneys name and ridiculed him.  

They interrupted the judge when he was instructing the jury and quoted case law like they were reading out of the text book.  They told the judge his instructions were in error.  Made a motion to dismiss the jury and declare a mistrial, I believe.   The judge banned them from his courtroom.   Verdict:  Hung Jury.  

I have often wondered if these events, among others, were instituted by the family or guardians or even local gangs in Tulsa.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on September 11, 2007, 09:19:18 am
Well, nobody has really answered my question. Just a few maybes and not reallys.  I want to know how someone with a mob background can be a lawyer?

Aren't there rules and background investigations?

How come nobody confronts that guy I was talking about?

Finally, tell me more about Mondo's please...


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: AngieB on September 11, 2007, 10:02:49 am
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

Well, nobody has really answered my question.

Perhaps nobody really has an answer?

 
quote:
How come nobody confronts that guy I was talking about?
You can next time you see him. Let us know how it works out for you.

[:P]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: mr.jaynes on September 11, 2007, 11:27:06 am
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt


And the Italian/Goomba women are just as foul mouthed and bad.



I don't know about that. I've seen a number of them on various talk shows and news reports. There seems to be a duality to them that makes them unique: earthy and yet glamorous, streetwise and yet romantic. I think if one grows up in the vicinity of women like this, one finds that these are not the kind of women one simply dates or has a good time with for a while. These seem to be the marriage-and-family kind of women, the ones you marry, not simply date.

As for the women that mobsters seem to go out with, sure, there seems to be a predominance of Italian origin, but let's not forget that one may find Jewish women as well as Hispanic and even Russian women on the arm of many a mobster.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on September 12, 2007, 09:09:25 am
Yeah right, I'm going to walk up to a 300 pound guy who looks like the Iceman off the HBO specials.....[:D] If he doesn't kick my a**, his wife/girlfriend probably would.

It's just this town is boring sometimes and I wondered if anything interesting goes on "undercover."

Sorry if I bothered anyone.  Like I said in NJ, stuff goes on, you have an idea of who is who, and most people know it.







Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: mr.jaynes on September 12, 2007, 04:30:47 pm
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

Yeah right, I'm going to walk up to a 300 pound guy who looks like the Iceman off the HBO specials.....[:D] If he doesn't kick my a**, his wife/girlfriend probably would.

It's just this town is boring sometimes and I wondered if anything interesting goes on "undercover."



In cities such as New York, Los Angeles, Miami, and yes, New Orleans, it happens blatantly. In Oklahoma, I think it's more subtle for some reason. Before I left Oklahoma, I found that anything you wanted to find or experience, you could find it in Tulsa, as it was a microcosm of many things. You want sin and sleaze, you could find it: may have to dig deep to find the particular variety that's to one's liking, but you could find it.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Radio on September 12, 2007, 04:50:10 pm
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

Well, nobody has really answered my question. Just a few maybes and not reallys.  I want to know how someone with a mob background can be a lawyer?

Aren't there rules and background investigations?

How come nobody confronts that guy I was talking about?





http://www.okbar.org/admissions/rules.htm

What are you going to confront the guy about?  Jealousy about his women?

And don't think for a moment that organized crime is not alive and well in Tulsa, or any other major city.  It is just not as black and white as it used to be - all ethnic groups have their niche now.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Porky on September 12, 2007, 09:34:34 pm
No Mafia, just gangs.......may Cleo Epps RIP.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Breadburner on September 12, 2007, 10:06:49 pm
Wow Pork...I could add a couple to that list but I ain't gonna.....


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Porky on September 13, 2007, 04:38:58 am
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

Wow Pork...I could add a couple to that list but I ain't gonna.....



How about Tom Lester Pugh? Now that was one tough gangster. Got a few stories I could share about him.

But you had me scratching my head all night after seeing your post about the township of Frontenac. All I've been able to do is think about Fried Chicken and Cole Slaw. And for the life of me I can't think of the name of that restaurant/bar there. Use to eat all the time there when I was going to College in Pittsburg.

Frontenac was where the Italian mafia was out of and on the other side of Pittsburg, there was another township where the Sicilian Mafia was set up.

I think as far as real Mafia goes in our area, these two townships and Kansas City were pretty big at one time. The group in Kansas City got ran out and moved to St Joesph, Mo because of a crime war back in the 60's/70's where a restaurant was blown up and many were killed in KC.

I just wish the walls of the old Avalon Steak House could talk in West Tulsa. That was probably the biggest hangout of the Mobsters back in the 50's,60's and 70's in Tulsa. Plus they made a great steak and stuffed bake potato after being out at the bars all night. [^]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: cks511 on September 13, 2007, 06:52:19 am
Here have fun with this.  Saw the snowman on I-44 this morning, here's the link:

http://oklahomamafia.com/


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: bigdtottown on September 13, 2007, 08:59:54 am
Growing up in Shawnee I remember my parents going to dinner in OKC at some place that had bullet holes in the glass that they left there, as a marketing tool or something.  I'm not sure but the shooting may have been O&G related, which was the business my dad was in.  Lots of interesting characters in that business, more so in the "old days".  Does anyone recall this restaurant?  We later ('68) moved to St. Louis, MO and it was widely known that one of our neighbors was in organized crime, but I don't know exactly how anyone knew it.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on September 17, 2007, 04:29:37 pm
I think you are afraid of the truth.  No one has told me more about Mondo's.

And as for me confronting a 300 lb guy who looks like he could and would break my scrawny butt into pieces, forget about it (as Donnie Brasco would say).  I'm not going to bother a guy who looks like that PERIOD.  In NJ, they will HURT you, not just a bar fight where someone throws a punch and it gets broken up, I mean break your wrists, knock out your teeth, gouge your eyes and that ain't happening to me!

As for jealousy of his woman...HELL YEAH!

I think if people here are just afraid.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Tony on September 17, 2007, 06:59:50 pm
H Paul Rico, retired FBI agent accused of helping his former mob informants arrange killing of businessman in 1981, dies in Tulsa week after being extradited to Oklahoma to face charges; was arrested in Oct in Fla; he was 78 -

good evidence the MOB is alive and well in T-Town

FBI informant Stephen J Flemmi pleads guilty to 10 murders and racketeering charges in plea agreement and will also plead guilty to murder of Tulsa, Okla, businessman Roger Wheeler; was chief lieutenant of fugitive Boston gangster James J Bulger; H Paul Rico, former FBI agent who supervised Flemmi, has been charged with helping arrange Wheeler's killing

Lots more in the public record -- oil, gambling, prostitution, drugs -- follow the money and organized crime isn't far behind.

Who do you think gets the skim and sets up casino's for the tribes? (hint) it isn't the tribal chiefs[}:)]


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: HazMatCFO on September 17, 2007, 08:54:22 pm
I want 24 blueberries in the muffins.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Conan71 on September 18, 2007, 08:29:47 am
quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

I think you are afraid of the truth.  No one has told me more about Mondo's.




Or it might just be that the Aloisio family isn't mobbed up and there is no story to tell.  Go to Abruzzi's and ask Rob Aloisio if you are so interested.

There was a colorful organized crime scene with prostitution, gambling, narcotics, etc. as I remember in the late '60's and early '70's.  Any of the last names I ever read in the newspaper didn't end with a vowel.  IOW- it was more of a good ol' boy mafia.  Not an Italian mafia.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on September 18, 2007, 03:16:06 pm
There is no Abruzzi.  That was a character on Prison Break.  



Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Townsend on September 18, 2007, 03:28:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by KingMutt

I think you are afraid of the truth.  No one has told me more about Mondo's.




Or it might just be that the Aloisio family isn't mobbed up and there is no story to tell.  Go to Abruzzi's and ask Rob Aloisio if you are so interested.

There was a colorful organized crime scene with prostitution, gambling, narcotics, etc. as I remember in the late '60's and early '70's.  Any of the last names I ever read in the newspaper didn't end with a vowel.  IOW- it was more of a good ol' boy mafia.  Not an Italian mafia.



It wasn't "yous guys".  It was more "Yall"


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: KingMutt on September 18, 2007, 03:38:48 pm
I'm not going anywhere and asking anyone anything.  

But there is no Abruzzi to eat at.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Tony on September 21, 2007, 03:36:03 pm
If you really wanna know ask Gianini Bonanno or Luciano Bonanno, or the Gambino family in Tulsa -- they are in the white pages with UNLISTED numbers. You won't see the "family" unless you run in the higher caste circles in Tulsa and you don't wanna see the "hired hands".


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: jne on September 21, 2007, 03:45:12 pm
I know Gambinos and I wouldn't consider myself higher caste and I am definitely no 'hired hand.'  However, let it be know that I will entertain offers I can't refuse.  This thread is tired.


Title: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: shadows on September 21, 2007, 07:26:54 pm
There is no need to look for the bosses of the Mafia in Tulsa.  If they need to contact you they will.  Of the three tiers that are active those in the top are very affluent persons in the community.  Those at the bottom will put a rattle snake under the seat of your car.  

There is an old saying to ”Let the sleeping dog ly”.


Title: Re: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 03, 2015, 05:00:59 pm
Ex-FBI agent who testified in Bulger trial indicted

Former FBI agent Robert Fitzpatrick has been indicted on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice relating to his testimony for the defense in the 2013 trial of notorious gangster James “Whitey” Bulger, federal prosecutors said.

Fitzpatrick made “false material declarations designed to aid Bulger’s defense,” prosecutors said in an indictment filed in federal court.

“Fitzpatrick also made false material declarations to enhance his own credibility as a former FBI official by making false claims about his professional accomplishments as an FBI agent,” prosecutors said.

The indictment charged, among other things, that Fitzpatrick lied when he said he had found the rifle used to kill Martin Luther King Jr on April 4, 1968.

Fitzpatrick was the first defense witness for Bulger at his 2013 trial and testified over two days. He was used by the defense team to describe corruption within the FBI in Boston at the time and to try to undermine the contention that Bulger was an informant for the FBI.

He testified that in a meeting with Bulger in the early 1980s Bulger told him that he was not getting paid, that he paid others, and that he was not an informant.

The prosecutor also asked why Fitzpatrick did not inquire further when Bulger said he was bribing people. Fitzpatrick said it was because he never used the word “bribe.”

Bulger was charged in a sweeping racketeering case with participating in 19 murders during his deadly career in Boston’s underworld, along with extortion, money laundering, and weapons offenses. A jury found him responsible for 11 murders and convicted him of 31 of 32 counts.

In November 2013, he was sentenced to two life sentences in prison plus five years.

Bulger was able to operate with impunity for years as a prized informant for the FBI who had a cozy relationship with corrupt agents.

Prosecutor Brian Kelly’s attack on Fitzpatrick included grilling him about passages in a book he co-wrote in 2012, “Betrayal: Whitey Bulger and the FBI Agent Who Fought to Bring Him Down.”


https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/30/former-fbi-agent-indicted-for-perjury-obstruction-justice-whitey-bulger-trial/wAnCrRwJKlWz6aM4MPdh1M/story.html



Title: Re: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: patric on October 30, 2018, 11:56:22 am
Convicted mobster James “Whitey” Bulger was found dead following his move from the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City.

Bulger was awaiting trials for participating in the 1981 slaying of Roger Wheeler in Tulsa and the 1982 slaying of Boston businessman John Callahan in Florida.

Bulger was moved this week from the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, N.Y., to the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City, which serves as a holding facility for inmates on their way to other federal penitentiaries across the country, according to the Bureau of Prisons website.

The notorious and much-feared former Boston mob boss was killed Tuesday morning at the United States Penitentiary Hazelton in Bruceton Mills, West Virginia, multiple officials told CNN.


Title: Re: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 30, 2018, 02:03:00 pm
Convicted mobster James “Whitey” Bulger was found dead following his move from the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City.

Bulger was awaiting trials for participating in the 1981 slaying of Roger Wheeler in Tulsa and the 1982 slaying of Boston businessman John Callahan in Florida.

Bulger was moved this week from the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, N.Y., to the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City, which serves as a holding facility for inmates on their way to other federal penitentiaries across the country, according to the Bureau of Prisons website.

The notorious and much-feared former Boston mob boss was killed Tuesday morning at the United States Penitentiary Hazelton in Bruceton Mills, West Virginia, multiple officials told CNN.

Sounds like the rat got caught in a trap. Played both sides and paid the price. Now let me go get a Qtip to dry my tears for him.


Title: Re: Is there Mafia in Tulsa
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 30, 2018, 03:01:36 pm
Lol...!