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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Wilbur on May 17, 2007, 08:35:00 am



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 17, 2007, 08:35:00 am
According to this Detroit blog, Tulsa's next police chief is probably going to be Ella Bully-Cummings, current police chief of Detroit.  I'd actually heard this rumor a couple months ago.

http://firejerryo.blogspot.com/2007/05/is-bully-tulsa-bound.html

Do these comments from the blog concern anyone:

"Bully-Cummings has been the chief of police for a little more than 3 years a period that seen the lowest number of police personnel in years, very low officer morale, which included an unprecendented number of suicides within the ranks, a great increase in violent crime and yearly increases in the murder rate that hasn't been seen for decades, and what many believe is the dismantling of the police department under the Kilpatrick administration."


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 17, 2007, 09:01:34 am
"Bully-Cummings".  She just sounds intimidating with that last name. [;)]

I thought I would see what Gwen & Chris were gabbing about this morning.  They said the Mayor was also considering a lesbian police chief from another city.  Oh, the nerve. [xx(]

I don't care what race, gender, or sexual orientation as long as they are the best candidate and can be justified as better for the TPD than the three local candidates.  

Sounds like Queen Kathy is wanting to make a "statement" hire instead of considering true merit, if what you posted about Bully-Cummings is true.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: rwarn17588 on May 17, 2007, 09:19:28 am
Geez, the morning show crew seems to be grinding their axes against gays, aren't they?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: iplaw on May 17, 2007, 09:41:23 am
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

"Bully-Cummings".  She just sounds intimidating with that last name. [;)]

I thought I would see what Gwen & Chris were gabbing about this morning.  They said the Mayor was also considering a lesbian police chief from another city.  Oh, the nerve. [xx(]

I don't care what race, gender, or sexual orientation as long as they are the best candidate and can be justified as better for the TPD than the three local candidates.  

Sounds like Queen Kathy is wanting to make a "statement" hire instead of considering true merit, if what you posted about Bully-Cummings is true.

I would only support a transgendered, racial minority candidate...gay candidates are so last week.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: AngieB on May 17, 2007, 09:52:59 am
Bully-Cummings says she has no plans to depart from her post to take a job as top cop in Tulsa, Okla.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070517/NEWS01/70517016/0/BUSINESS01


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 17, 2007, 10:08:33 am
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

Geez, the morning show crew seems to be grinding their axes against gays, aren't they?



Yeah, gamblers, drunks, gluttons, deadbeats, and patrons of t***y bars kind of dropped off the map of KFAQ "sins" last year.  Wonder why that is? [:P]


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 17, 2007, 10:40:37 am
quote:
Detroit Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings has said that people should always feel comfortable to contact police when a crime is committed and that police should not have to enforce federal immigration laws.


Source: The Arab American News (http://"http://www.arabamericannews.com/newsarticle.php?articleid=8552")  May 12, 2007


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MichaelC on May 17, 2007, 10:50:33 am
If I were the Police Chief or the Mayor, and the FED just assumed I was going to enforce immigration laws with my underpaid understaffed police force, I'd tell the FED where to stick it.  Unless the FED mandates it, they can continue pleasuring each other on this issue.

Until the FED gets off its behind, and starts assisting on the pay and staffing problems of inner-city PDs, there is no incentive.  TPD is stretched enough, without the immigration issue.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 17, 2007, 10:53:48 am
quote:
I'd tell the FED where to stick it.



And, we can do the same for anyone who openly fails to enforce our laws.

It'd be interesting to see the actual Job Description posted.




Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MichaelC on May 17, 2007, 11:00:37 am
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:
I'd tell the FED where to stick it.



And, we can do the same for anyone who openly fails to enforce our laws.

It'd be interesting to see the actual Job Description posted.


My bad.  I thought you were some kind of policeman.  Of course, maybe our PD has plenty of time on it's hands, is fully staffed, and fully paid.

Maybe TPD should go out of it's way to accept Federal responsilibilities regardless of TPD's responsilibities.  We don't really need murders solved, or traffic monitored.  Let's just pull over random Mexicans, see if they're legal.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 17, 2007, 11:43:35 am
Is it true that Mayor Kathy Taylor is going to hire that guy from Mayberry?

Mayor Taylor and Sheriff Taylor...

Which one of you cop posters gets to be Deputy Fife?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on May 17, 2007, 12:29:12 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

According to this Detroit blog, Tulsa's next police chief is probably going to be . . . .


So a blog says that she interviewed for the position, and you translate that as she's "probably going to be" Tulsa's next police chief.

I say Tulsa's next police chief is going to be this guy.  

(http://www.glaad.org/images/eye/ontv/06-07/photos/Reno911_lg.jpg)

There, you read that in an online forum.  That's almost as good as a blog.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on May 17, 2007, 01:09:51 pm
Reno 911 is awsome!  However, I would rather have Deputy Travis Junior or Deputy Raineesha Williams as a chief.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 17, 2007, 01:10:22 pm
(http://www.richardsandsouthern.com/heehaw/mdseimages/hh-mpist-brown.jpg)


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 17, 2007, 01:13:13 pm
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:
I'd tell the FED where to stick it.



And, we can do the same for anyone who openly fails to enforce our laws.

It'd be interesting to see the actual Job Description posted.


My bad.  I thought you were some kind of policeman.  Of course, maybe our PD has plenty of time on it's hands, is fully staffed, and fully paid.

Maybe TPD should go out of it's way to accept Federal responsilibilities regardless of TPD's responsilibities.  We don't really need murders solved, or traffic monitored.  Let's just pull over random Mexicans, see if they're legal.



Yeah, I was going to suggest we knock off on child molesters and bank robbers until sufficient funds are obtained.

The Courts are too busy anyway.
Judges might need to work a regular shift.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: sgrizzle on May 17, 2007, 01:31:32 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

Geez, the morning show crew seems to be grinding their axes against gays, aren't they?



Yeah, gamblers, drunks, gluttons, deadbeats, and patrons of t***y bars kind of dropped off the map of KFAQ "sins" last year.  Wonder why that is? [:P]



So basically all KFAQ does is self-deprecating hostility? Since Delgiorno did all of those whilce complaining about them, does that mean someone on the show now is gay?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on May 17, 2007, 01:39:09 pm
Surely you don't believe EVERYTHING you read do you?  I'm sure we could find a an officer that would say the exact thing about our leadership, heck probably many.  Here's what Detroit's website says about her, so maybe somewhere in between is what is truth.  How is the department ever going to get it together if they shot down a candidate before they ever get the chance to speak.  I don't agree with a lot of what Mayor Taylor does, but I do believe she is looking for the best candidate that will improve our City, if she read this bio, I think anyone could see why she'd at least be interested.  

Ella M. Bully-Cummings, Esq.
Chief of Police

Biography

Appointed to the position of Chief of Police on November 3, 2003, by The Honorable Kwame M. Kilpatrick, Mayor of the City of Detroit, Ella M. Bully-Cummings became the first female police chief for the Detroit Police Department in its 138-year history. Active in law enforcement over the past 29 years, Chief Bully-Cummings joined the Detroit Police Department on July 18, 1977, at the age of 19. She is responsible for the 10th largest police department in the nation which consists of 3,700 sworn and civilian employees and an annual budget of over $414 million. Chief Bully-Cummings is responsible for providing police services to more than 950,000 residents; over 10,000 businesses; and 258 schools in the city of Detroit, which spans 138.7 square miles.

Under her leadership, in 2004, the Detroit Police Department realized the greatest reduction in major crimes in 41 years, and a record reduction of 15.2% in violent crimes. Chief Bully-Cummings attributes this success to having a committed police force and an engaged community—through police interaction, and implementing innovative crime reduction strategies. Chief Bully-Cummings states that holding her command staff accountable greatly increased the efficiency and effectiveness of operations. During her tenure, the Department reduced overtime use by 40%, totaling $8 million.

In 2005, Chief Bully-Cummings reduced the number of police lawsuits filed involving police chases by 25%—by changing the Department’s chase policy; reduced the number of on-duty police accidents by 24%; completed construction of a new state of the art communications center; acquired the 800MHz radios, which are department-issued to each officer; reduced bank robberies by 49%; increased narcotic confiscations by 121% with a street value increase of 60%; and implemented the department’s first Spanish Speaking Academy to enlighten the Hispanic community on the operations of the police department. Additionally, when faced with a $113 million budget reduction that included the layoff of 150 police officers, Chief Bully-Cummings implemented a restructuring plan, which merged 12 precincts into 6 districts, increased the number of police officers on patrol from 64% to 71% through the merger and reallocating officers from desk/administrative functions, and, concurrently, increased the number of police officers available to answer calls for service from 73% to 90%.

In 2006, Chief Bully-Cummings was responsible for coordinating the public safety component for one of the largest event attractions in the world, Super Bowl XL. Detroit received national acclaim for its success. A new Police District (station) became fully operational in February 2006. This is the first police station built in Detroit since 1991. A state of the art armored (ballistic) carrier was purchased for the department’s Special Response Team (SRT) for use during barricaded gunpersons incidents and the execution of high risk violent felony warrants and narcotic raids. Due to her focus on quality narcotic enforcement, she netted nearly $40 million in narcotic confiscations (drugs and proceeds), resulting from four narcotic raids during a three-month period.

Chief Bully-Cummings received a Bachelor of Arts with Honors in Public Administration from Madonna University (Detroit), and a Juris Doctor Cum Laude from the Detroit College of Law at Michigan State University in January 1998, and was sworn in to the State Bar of Michigan on May 19, 1998.

Chief Bully-Cummings is a member of the State Bar of Michigan, National Bar Association, Wolverine Bar Association, Executive Committee of the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP), Board of Directors for the Police Executive Research Forum (PERF), National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives (NOBLE), Major Cities Chiefs of Police Association and the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police. She has received numerous awards from citizen groups, civic organizations and business communities. She is a 2005 recipient of the General Motors and Black Entertainment Television’s “History Maker in the Making” Award and a Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Center for Women and Policing.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 17, 2007, 02:02:16 pm
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588

Geez, the morning show crew seems to be grinding their axes against gays, aren't they?



Yeah, gamblers, drunks, gluttons, deadbeats, and patrons of t***y bars kind of dropped off the map of KFAQ "sins" last year.  Wonder why that is? [:P]



So basically all KFAQ does is self-deprecating hostility? Since Delgiorno did all of those whilce complaining about them, does that mean someone on the show now is gay?



Probably got a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly who it is. (not that there's anything wrong with it) [}:)]


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: YoungTulsan on May 17, 2007, 02:16:22 pm
Just about any time someone moves DOWN in the ranks of cities (Tulsa is smaller than Detroit) - there is something wrong with that person's performance.  And the smaller towns are dumb enough to hire these people because they think it looks neat that they got the chief of police from Detroit in Tulsa.  Wow, thats so cool!  If she can handle Detroit, surely she can handle Tulsa!!!..





I hope this thread is a joke and the mayor hires someone competent.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 17, 2007, 02:27:05 pm
If she comes to Tulsa, an overnight bag should do it.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 17, 2007, 02:32:00 pm
How come her bio didn't mention her being born in Japan?



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on May 17, 2007, 07:28:40 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle

How come her bio didn't mention her being born in Japan?


Wow, if you can confirm that, that would be the most explosive revelation since . . . . we found out Dave Been wears size 9 shoes!!


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 17, 2007, 07:34:04 pm
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Just about any time someone moves DOWN in the ranks of cities (Tulsa is smaller than Detroit) - there is something wrong with that person's performance.  And the smaller towns are dumb enough to hire these people because they think it looks neat that they got the chief of police from Detroit in Tulsa.  Wow, thats so cool!  If she can handle Detroit, surely she can handle Tulsa!!!..





I hope this thread is a joke and the mayor hires someone competent.



This was my big question.  Police like to move on to bigger and better things, just like other professions.  Moving from Detroit, the 10th largest city with nearly 4,000 officers to Tulsa, which ranks around 57th or 58th and 800 officers is certainly not a 'step up'.  I haven't been able to find figures for Detroit's salary, but from what little I have found, Tulsa might have been a little pay raise, not to mention a much nicer city!

From the comments on the Detroit Free Press website, it looks like many people were ready to pay for her moving van.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on May 17, 2007, 07:41:44 pm
Unfounded rumors are fun . . . .

Police chief shoots down rumors she's leaving
May 17, 2007

BY BEN SCHMITT

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

Detroit Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings said she has no plans to depart from her post to take a job as top cop in Tulsa, Okla.

When asked earlier this week, Bully-Cummings denied rumors that she interviewed for the job, which became vacant May 1.

Today, the chief’s spokesman, James Tate, said the rumors are bogus.

“It’s not legitimate,” Tate said. “I talked to the chief and she’s not going anywhere. She is a Detroiter through and through.”

Tate acknowledged that he’s gotten calls from other media outlets about the rumor. The Tulsa World newspaper and a radio station called the Free Press this week asking about the rumors."


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on May 17, 2007, 08:02:18 pm
I came across this officer.com forum (http://"http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65619") post, which I've entitled "When Hysterical Police Union Divas Meet the Strong Mayor."

WARNING: THE MAYOR IS TRYING TO MANAGE CITY AFFAIRS!!!!!!

quote:
Update:

DO NOT APPLY TO TULSA PD RIGHT NOW!!!!

I hate to say this about my own department but I'm afraid I have too as things have suddenly taken a drastic turn.

The new mayor is an insane micro manager and is trying to defacto run the department. She's wants to take our take home cars, she's trying to force us off of 4/10s and back to 5/8s, and she is only considering ultra liberal outside female candidates for the new chief.

The latest candidate she is considering is from the Detroit area and will likely institute a civilian review board and a no pursuit policy just to name a few things.

Her latest "energy conservation policy" would make it a violation to leave you vehicle ideling when it is not necessary to "public safety" at would be punishible up to termination.  

She is going to fight us to the bitter end on every issue and even use her own personal money to do it (she's rich).

So until this stuff shakes out I would avoid this place if I was a prospective LEO.


To which, one sympathetic brother-in-arms replied:

quote:
Dang Chief, that sucks bro! Menopause?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: YoungTulsan on May 18, 2007, 02:10:37 am
If she is dead set on ultra liberal outside female candidates for the chief of police position, then perhaps we should petition for a recall of her mayorship.  And I say this as a citizen who approved of the city hall move to One Williams Center, and the destruction of the Camelot.  I was really liking KT until I heard about this unfettered BS about her trying to hire some PC chief of police after blatantly disregarding the city charter.  I would have supported her hiring the best candidate that wasnt internal, but apparently she is trying to hobnob with fellow liberal mayors by hiring a lesbian anti-law-enforcement politically correct  ignore-the-laws-and-progress-liberal-ideals-instead candidate...  Wait..  the term candidate doesnt even apply since she isn't looking at credentials and is hiring based on who fits in most with the far left agenda of big cities.  Tulsa isn't even that big of a city, it is pathetic to see our mayor trying to pull some "Hey, me too!  Look, I can be liberal too!!!" tactics just TRYING to fit in with actual big cities like NYC, San Fransicko, LA, etc.



I want an actual law-enforcing cheif of police that supports the cops and doesnt take **** from anyone who disobeys the law.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 18, 2007, 05:01:06 am
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

Unfounded rumors are fun . . . .

Police chief shoots down rumors she's leaving
May 17, 2007

BY BEN SCHMITT

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

Detroit Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings said she has no plans to depart from her post to take a job as top cop in Tulsa, Okla.

When asked earlier this week, Bully-Cummings denied rumors that she interviewed for the job, which became vacant May 1.

Today, the chief’s spokesman, James Tate, said the rumors are bogus.

“It’s not legitimate,” Tate said. “I talked to the chief and she’s not going anywhere. She is a Detroiter through and through.”

Tate acknowledged that he’s gotten calls from other media outlets about the rumor. The Tulsa World newspaper and a radio station called the Free Press this week asking about the rumors."



KOTV-6, on their morning show this morning, is reporting Bully-Cummings will be named Chief at a 10am press conference.  If so, do we already have some credibility issues?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: cannon_fodder on May 18, 2007, 07:28:41 am
I admit I am uninformed on this topic, but with rumors of a naming on the radio this AM, I had a question:

Does being a fairly high-crime city help attract a better chief?

I would imagine a good leader would want the challenge.  If you moved to Omaha (little crime) you have nothing to accomplish, all that can happen is crime go up.  If you can 'clean Tulsa up' you get mad credit and probably a raise - OR you can move on to bigger city work.

Conversely, Tulsa could be a high stress job with a good chance of failure.If nothing else, its more work.  SO it might dissuade some people.

Does anyone know - do higher crime cities get the better or worse police chiefs?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Ibanez on May 18, 2007, 07:39:46 am
If all this comes true and a less than steller chief is hired purely based on political leanings or trying to "make a splash" all I can say....as I have said before....is I hope Mayor Taylor enjoys her 1 term.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 18, 2007, 07:51:37 am
KRMG reported this morning that an "interim chief" would be named today due to pending issues in court over the three internal candidates who have been passed-over.

I can't imagine an outsider would move here to be an "interim chief".

Or could be KRMG has their facts all screwed up.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on May 18, 2007, 09:55:20 am
It's not her, David ??Somehting?? from Willington DE, 35 years law enforcement, 20 something in DC Police.  Anyway, I'm sure the details will come out during press conference.  I hope he does an awesome job!  

Imagine that, the blogs, were wrong.  I think KT did look for a minority or woman candidate, but NEVER at the expense of qualifications and ability to lead the department and improve our city.  

This is a big chance for her to shine.  I hope the FOP will work with him.  I think the majority of officers are ready for a new chief and will welcome him.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on May 18, 2007, 09:57:50 am
Interim PD Head Named
 Tulsa, Ok. - Mayor Kathy Taylor goes outside the Tulsa Police Department to name a temporary top cop. She has selected David Bostrom. He is a law enforcement consultant from the east coast. Former Police Chief Dave Been retired on May 1st.
More Local News


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on May 18, 2007, 12:03:28 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

KOTV-6, on their morning show this morning, is reporting Bully-Cummings will be named Chief at a 10am press conference.  If so, do we already have some credibility issues?


We?  Do you mean channel 6, the nitwits who started the rumor, or "YoungTulsan". . . ?

quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan

...but apparently she is trying to hobnob with fellow liberal mayors by hiring a lesbian anti-law-enforcement politically correct ignore-the-laws-and-progress-liberal-ideals-instead candidate... Wait.. the term candidate doesnt even apply since she isn't looking at credentials and is hiring based on who fits in most with the far left agenda of big cities.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: okiebybirth on May 18, 2007, 12:08:56 pm
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan

If she is dead set on ultra liberal outside female candidates for the chief of police position, then perhaps we should petition for a recall of her mayorship.  And I say this as a citizen who approved of the city hall move to One Williams Center, and the destruction of the Camelot.  I was really liking KT until I heard about this unfettered BS about her trying to hire some PC chief of police after blatantly disregarding the city charter.  I would have supported her hiring the best candidate that wasnt internal, but apparently she is trying to hobnob with fellow liberal mayors by hiring a lesbian anti-law-enforcement politically correct  ignore-the-laws-and-progress-liberal-ideals-instead candidate...  Wait..  the term candidate doesnt even apply since she isn't looking at credentials and is hiring based on who fits in most with the far left agenda of big cities.  Tulsa isn't even that big of a city, it is pathetic to see our mayor trying to pull some "Hey, me too!  Look, I can be liberal too!!!" tactics just TRYING to fit in with actual big cities like NYC, San Fransicko, LA, etc.



I want an actual law-enforcing cheif of police that supports the cops and doesnt take **** from anyone who disobeys the law.



You let one woman in public office, and she tries to bring all those menopausal creatures in the fold.  It has to be a damn liberal conspiracy I tell ya.

/sarcasm.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on May 18, 2007, 12:22:17 pm
quote:
Originally posted by okiebybirth

quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan

If she is dead set on ultra liberal outside female candidates for the chief of police position, then perhaps we should petition for a recall of her mayorship.  And I say this as a citizen who approved of the city hall move to One Williams Center, and the destruction of the Camelot.  I was really liking KT until I heard about this unfettered BS about her trying to hire some PC chief of police after blatantly disregarding the city charter.  I would have supported her hiring the best candidate that wasnt internal, but apparently she is trying to hobnob with fellow liberal mayors by hiring a lesbian anti-law-enforcement politically correct  ignore-the-laws-and-progress-liberal-ideals-instead candidate...  Wait..  the term candidate doesnt even apply since she isn't looking at credentials and is hiring based on who fits in most with the far left agenda of big cities.  Tulsa isn't even that big of a city, it is pathetic to see our mayor trying to pull some "Hey, me too!  Look, I can be liberal too!!!" tactics just TRYING to fit in with actual big cities like NYC, San Fransicko, LA, etc.



I want an actual law-enforcing cheif of police that supports the cops and doesnt take **** from anyone who disobeys the law.



You let one woman in public office, and she tries to bring all those menopausal creatures in the fold.  It has to be a damn liberal conspiracy I tell ya.

/sarcasm.



Not to mention the rampant lesbianism[}:)]  The blatant misogyny in this town never ceases to amaze me.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MichaelBates on May 18, 2007, 12:27:49 pm
David Bostrom of Wilmington, Del., is the new interim chief. I've put together what biographical information I could find:

http://www.batesline.com/archives/003197.html



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on May 18, 2007, 12:34:57 pm
"Bostrom oversaw the police and fire departments. Baker has not yet indicated whether Bostrom will be replaced or whether he will instead deal directly with the chiefs of those two departments."

hmmm, I can definitely see some foreshadowing here . . . .  He's not a candidate for the permanent Chief position, but he could likely be a candidate for a different position, especially if KT loses the court battle.  



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 18, 2007, 01:13:02 pm
Wilmington, De.  That's a long way to move for a temp job.

I'm still not clear after reading Bates' blog as to what this guy has been doing for the last 7 years.

Any chance he could have done some consulting work for Vanguard (National/Alamo)?

I get that apparently she can hire anyone she wants, but this whole thing has seemed very sneaky.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on May 18, 2007, 02:47:00 pm
^^^

I think you're directly over the target.

It sounds more like a consulting job anyway.
So, the question yet seems to be what 'major' changes can we expect.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 18, 2007, 03:48:38 pm
Better question:

How much money are we wasting on another unnecessary circle-jerk consultation with an out-of city consultant? [:(!]

This should have been a simple, painless, and inexpensive transition.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 18, 2007, 04:24:36 pm
State statute requires any police or peace officer to abide by the following:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?id=379757&hits=

My questions are:

1.  If he is only temporary, does he has any intentions of becoming a certified peace officer of the state of Oklahoma?

2.  Has he complied with the other items mandated by statute, such as:  submitted finger prints to the OSBI, passed a psychological exam, .....

3.  When was the last time he was an active certified peace officer?

4.  Like many professions, police must complete so many hours of continuing ed each year or lose certification.  If he has been out of law enforcement for a couple years, how will he be able to transfer any type of certification to Oklahoma?  Does he even have a certification that will transfer?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: meeciteewurkor on May 18, 2007, 08:04:54 pm
The mayor needs to be very careful.  Charter violations in the past (http://"http://meeciteewurkor.com/wp/?s=charter%20violation") have led to very expensive court settlements and awards.  Just ask LaFortune.
Ultimately, the citizen pays for this.  Every single penny.

Somebody above mentioned "blog rumors".  I think this holds more truth than some believe (yes, including mee).  I wrote yesterday about the Detroit Chief.  Had to edit it and add the Detroit free press article, which I also saw mentioned above.  Then today with Bostrom.

I believe this process should be transparent.  The fact that the mayor wishes to keep everything muddied up and unclear only fuels the blog rumor mills. (yes, mine included)

In the end, I think the three candidates that were/are being overlooked have cause for action.  If they choose to pursue action, I guarantee you that they will win if they fight it to the bitter end.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on May 18, 2007, 09:17:45 pm
Anyone have a list of donors for the Tulsa Police Foundation......


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: BASleuth on May 19, 2007, 04:47:17 am
We, the citizens of Tulsa, voted for the provisions of the Charter of the City of Tulsa. The Charter has provisions for civil service for city employees, not merely the police department. Prior to civil service, department heads and employees of various branches of city government changed with each election or at the whim of any politician. Political supporters were hired and promoted, while others were fired and/or demoted. Something called political patronage, cronyism and some times called the Chicago spoils system. Since civil service initial adoption we have renewed its provisions. The City Council has made no effort to amend and/or repeal those provisions of the Charter.  Thus the provisions of the Charter should be objected until the public votes otherwise.

We now have an interim city attorney (since last year),an interim police chief, an interim director of human resources, a directive to follow the Charter in selecting the Public Defenders for the Tulsa Municipal Court.

The interim city attorney was apparently not qualified to represent the city involving civil service matters, thus an outside attorney was hired.  One of the responsibility of a city attorney is basically to uphold the laws enacted. Then another private attorney was hired to put forth the position of the Mayor. Now these two attorneys are reportedly acting jointly in these matters.  Could there be a conflict of interest in that one should be defending the Charter as enacted by the Citizens of Tulsa, while the other should be defending the Mayors position?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: BASleuth on May 19, 2007, 05:04:11 am
Text correction for above posting..."objected" should be "obeyed"..sorry about that  those little icons never did appear to allow me to correct the posting.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 19, 2007, 07:49:58 am
Temporary police chief is named

By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer 5/19/2007

David Bostrom will take over the interim chief post at least until a lawsuit by internal candidates is settled, the mayor says.

A Wilmington, Del., man with a 35-year career in law enforcement was named Tulsa's interim police chief Friday by Mayor Kathy Taylor. David Bostrom, 57, is not a candidate to be the permanent chief, both he and Taylor said during a news conference.

"David is coming to us with the best of credentials and extensive experience in cities faced with crime rates similar to Tulsa's," Taylor said. "I know he is up to the challenges facing our city."

Bostrom works as an independent consultant and once served as the public safety director in Wilmington and spent 23 years in the Metropolitan Police Department of Washington, D.C., rising through the ranks from officer to commander. "I'm proud to be here in Tulsa to lead the Police Department, which has a national reputation as being well-trained and well-equipped," he said, adding that he's visited Tulsa about five times before. "My time in Tulsa will undoubtedly be short, but I want to focus on key issues facing the city and the Police Department, particularly those issues that impact violence in parts of Tulsa."

Taylor said she does not know exactly how long Bostrom will be in the position but that it will be at least until a lawsuit by the three rejected internal candidates is resolved. "I really felt it was important to bring in an interim chief to help the city move forward," she said. "I didn't think it was fair or appropriate to leave someone internal in the position because of the pending litigation."

Police Chief Dave Been's retirement went into effect May 1. Deputy Chief Mark McCrory has been serving as acting chief. The Civil Service Commission last week ruled that Taylor has the authority to look outside the Police Department for the next chief, even though three internal candidates were certified as being qualified.

The lawsuit by Deputy Chief Bill Wells, Maj. Rob Turner and Maj. Paul Williams is set to be heard by Tulsa County District Judge Michael Gassett. Bostrom, who will be paid the same $132,000 salary that Been earned, was on the job Friday morning, meeting with the Police Department's leadership and city administrators. "I share the mayor's view that there's a critically important relationship between public safety, education and economic development," he said. Bostrom said he wants to engage the local community.

"What will have a dramatic impact on crime is if police and the citizens of Tulsa work together," he said. "I am particularly interested in reducing murders during the course of the summer." Taylor said Bostrom should be able to make a big difference in a short time. "David has expertise in community policing and diversity training, and I believe he brings a lot of new ideas that will help us grow," she said.

Taylor said she found Bostrom by networking through the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Police Executive Research Forum and the U.S. Conference of Mayors. "I wanted someone who met all of the criteria to be the permanent chief but who only wanted the job on a temporary basis, and I am fortunate David agreed to the challenge," she said. Bostrom pledged to be a full-time police chief, even though his wife, Patricia Quann, will remain in Wilmington. "She's promised to come visit me often," he said.

Darin Filak, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 93, called Bostrom "a nice guy with impeccable credentials." "We're going to do our jobs and follow the directions he gives us," said Filak, who supports the legal challenge by the three internal candidates.

City Councilor Jack Henderson praised Bostrom's willingness to work closely with the black community and said he thinks an outside view will be good for the department. "Someone without any ties to anyone and who just wants to do a good job is what's best for Tulsa right now," he said. "We're dealing with a serious crime problem. We need to set aside everything else and focus on getting something done."


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: TulsaSooner on May 19, 2007, 08:00:19 am
quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

If they choose to pursue action, I guarantee you that they will win if they fight it to the bitter end.



How many times does this have to be shot down before some people start to believe it?  I know of at least twice now that requiring the City to hire internally has been challenged and twice now it has been shot down.  Do you believe that if the cops' attorneys felt they had a chance they wouldn't be in court right now?  I guess they just let it go out of the goodness of their heart?



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: meeciteewurkor on May 19, 2007, 08:45:59 am
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaSooner

quote:
Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

If they choose to pursue action, I guarantee you that they will win if they fight it to the bitter end.



How many times does this have to be shot down before some people start to believe it?  I know of at least twice now that requiring the City to hire internally has been challenged and twice now it has been shot down.  Do you believe that if the cops' attorneys felt they had a chance they wouldn't be in court right now?  I guess they just let it go out of the goodness of their heart?


Yes, but how many times has it not been shot down?  I can think of at least three instances, each time it cost the city large chunks of change.
Check out section 106 of the City's Policies and procedures here. (http://"http://meeciteewurkor.com/wp-supp/ppp/100.pdf")
I'm pretty sure that doc is up to date.  It states very specifically how to deal with vacancies.
If the HR director cannot find certified candidates (which they did), then they can approach the department with the vacancy, and submit a proposal to the Civil Service commission to modify criteria or qualifications to meet the essential functions of the job.
However the HR director can also defer to the "appointing authority" to fill the vacancy.
Is the mayor an "appointing authority" for the Police chief?

I also find it curious that our HR director was recently on the receiving end of a retiring hatchet from the mayor.  Coincidence?

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.  This is simply the way I'm seeing this.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 21, 2007, 11:11:23 am
Can anyone point me to the section of the City Charter which says the Mayor's office is a monarchy?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on May 21, 2007, 11:59:02 am
Did anyone find the donor list for the Tulsa Police Foundation......


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on May 21, 2007, 12:13:13 pm
The only person I know that donated to it was the millionaire mayor.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 21, 2007, 12:16:55 pm
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010

The only person I know that donated to it was the millionaire billionaire mayor queen.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on May 21, 2007, 12:26:15 pm
Jeff Stava heads the foundation up (according to the news).  He is EXTREMELY pro police and has several police friends.  There are people who actually think the FOP's stance on the charter is incorrect, so the leap from the foundation paid for a search to making that anti-police is a bit of a stretch.  Charter issue aside, there are a large number of officers who agree with the Mayor going outside the department for a chief.  If the courts say she can't go outside the department, then she won't.  

Back to topic (sorta) one thing that has really bothered me about this guy is he has yet (that I have seen) talked about working with the police department.  It appears his entire purpose is to work with the community.  It would have been nice to hear him say a little bit more about how he'd like to hear what the department has been doing and what is working and what is not.  He's making it sound like only the community has the answers to solving the violence problems.  At least the Mayor did say the police has been working hard with the neighborhoods (in her press conference, if you watched it all) and thanked McCrory for his committment to that.  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.  In the end, we should all want what's best for the city.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 21, 2007, 02:06:22 pm
quote:
Back to topic (sorta) one thing that has really bothered me about this guy is he has yet (that I have seen) talked about working with the police department. It appears his entire purpose is to work with the community. It would have been nice to hear him say a little bit more about how he'd like to hear what the department has been doing and what is working and what is not. He's making it sound like only the community has the answers to solving the violence problems. At least the Mayor did say the police has been working hard with the neighborhoods (in her press conference, if you watched it all) and thanked McCrory for his committment to that. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. In the end, we should all want what's best for the city.


How much buy-in can the guy have?  He has never lived in this town and has no intentions of living here.  Tulsa doesn't need some generalized form of community based policing.  We need Tulsa based policing.  In other words, what works in Washington DC isn't necessarily going to work in Tulsa or Miami or Denver.  Each community is unique and requires a unique form of policing.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 21, 2007, 02:40:23 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
In other words, what works in Washington DC isn't necessarily going to work in Tulsa or Miami or Denver.  Each community is unique and requires a unique form of policing.



Pretty much been my point all along that it would have been best to pick one of the three qualified and certified candidates from within the department.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 21, 2007, 02:49:06 pm
I am not surprised to read Wilbur's comments.

Why don't you try to give the guy a chance? Why do you act like you are the only ones who know how to fight crime?

This guy has great credentials as is willing to come here and try to make a difference, even knowing that it is as a temp. He is walking into a dysfunctional department that has replaced all the top deputies every year and are on record as being split.

I hope that the majority of police officers aren't as close-minded as you.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on May 21, 2007, 04:38:43 pm
They can start with a troop surge in North Tulsa.....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on May 21, 2007, 07:06:31 pm
^

Best draw the map for future crime slightly different........

If and when Wal Mart, regardless of it's exterior appearance, opens it will make a fine 24 hour Transfund/Snack Shop/Beer Run/Car Lot, etc........

Made only better when the Arena holds concerts..........Then they have a double up sale.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 21, 2007, 07:28:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

I am not surprised to read Wilbur's comments.

Why don't you try to give the guy a chance? Why do you act like you are the only ones who know how to fight crime?

This guy has great credentials as is willing to come here and try to make a difference, even knowing that it is as a temp. He is walking into a dysfunctional department that has replaced all the top deputies every year and are on record as being split.

I hope that the majority of police officers aren't as close-minded as you.



I'm all for giving the guy a chance, but initially he is going to be judged on his previous record.  He is a Drew Diamond look-a-like, and, if you've checked Google, has put on seminars with Drew.  Looking back at Drew's record, Tulsa had historically record crimes rates, and since Drew has left, we have had historically low record crimes rates.  Do we really want to go back to Drew's crime rates?  Not me!

And since you seem to be the all-knowing about the inner workings of the department, just what are the things that are so 'dysfunctional department that has replaced all the top deputies every year'?

Let me see, Deputy Chief Wells has been there how many years?  Deputy Chief Andrus has been there how many years?  And Deputy Chief McCrory was promoted after Deputy Chief Busby retired after how many years?  35+?  Yea, everybody turns over constantly.  Major city police chiefs, of which Tulsa is considered a major city, last less then 36 months.  Tulsa is way ahead of the curve.

Your anti-police bias is coming out again, and it's based on no first hand knowledge!  Any other false rumors you care to share?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 21, 2007, 08:04:45 pm
I am surprised that you can't remember Wilbur...or maybe it is just selective memory.

Been replaced most of his top management team after the Swat team report came out.

When Been was put on probation in 2006, his replacement, Chief Wells (one of the applicants for the new chief job) reassigned two deputy chiefs and five majors.

When Been was reinstated, they shuffled up the management again. Now in 2007 we have more changes.

Why don't we read the report again that states the turmoil...it is still on KOTV website...pay attention to page 8 where it says that the top management of the department hate each other.

http://www.kotv.com/files/mayor-tpd-davebeen-report.pdf

Go ahead and act like nothing is wrong...you are like Nero with his fiddle while Rome burns.

The only way that this police department will ever get back to working together as a team instead of the Hatfields and McCoys is to bring in an unbiased outsider with nothing to lose or gain. Enter David Bostrom.

Thank you, Mayor Taylor, for doing the right thing.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: inteller on May 21, 2007, 08:19:36 pm
the more the cops bicker among themselves the less people have to get harrassed by them.

something better happen quick though or we will end up with a corrupt lot like in LA.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on May 22, 2007, 06:11:21 am
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

I am surprised that you can't remember Wilbur...or maybe it is just selective memory.

Been replaced most of his top management team after the Swat team report came out.

When Been was put on probation in 2006, his replacement, Chief Wells (one of the applicants for the new chief job) reassigned two deputy chiefs and five majors.

When Been was reinstated, they shuffled up the management again. Now in 2007 we have more changes.

Why don't we read the report again that states the turmoil...it is still on KOTV website...pay attention to page 8 where it says that the top management of the department hate each other.

http://www.kotv.com/files/mayor-tpd-davebeen-report.pdf

Go ahead and act like nothing is wrong...you are like Nero with his fiddle while Rome burns.

The only way that this police department will ever get back to working together as a team instead of the Hatfields and McCoys is to bring in an unbiased outsider with nothing to lose or gain. Enter David Bostrom.

Thank you, Mayor Taylor, for doing the right thing.



Hate to bust your 'all knowledge' bubble, but management movement is completely different then management replacement.  And management movement happens all the time.  Our division commanders typically get moved in the spring, their shift commanders typically get moved in mid-summer, and the first-line officers and supervisors movement takes place every August.  It has nothing to do with someone being in trouble or with happenings within the department.  It allows people to work in different areas of the department and it's what we call our annual 'shift change'.  Management movement has happened in the past and will continue to happen in the future, just like it always has.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on May 22, 2007, 08:59:46 am
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

He is a Drew Diamond look-a-like


Drew Diamond: "We do not have gangs in Tulsa". [}:)]


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on June 06, 2007, 05:36:57 am
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

I am not surprised to read Wilbur's comments.

Why don't you try to give the guy a chance? Why do you act like you are the only ones who know how to fight crime?

This guy has great credentials as is willing to come here and try to make a difference, even knowing that it is as a temp. He is walking into a dysfunctional department that has replaced all the top deputies every year and are on record as being split.

I hope that the majority of police officers aren't as close-minded as you.




^
OK I gave the guy a chance... and I hoped he would turn out to be a Police and Law Enforcement savant.

Activating Police reserve officers to take low priority calls just don't get it..

What does the reserve officer do if his "low priority" bicycle theft turns into something much more sinister...?

If this turns out to be an example of the Mayor's ... "Public Safety" is priority one..!
I am going to the "Gun Show" at the Fairgrounds.

I have had dealings with reserve officers and I do not believe they are required to take psych. exams.  I am sure one of the PD on the Board will correct me if I am wrong.

This reminds me of sending "weekend warriors" (i.e. army reserve) to fight the war in Iraq...

This sort of thing only crosses the mind of one very distant from the problem......

1st Strike: she told me personally the State of the City address would not be delivered to the "Chamber".......

If this reflects the future of "Public Safety" I will give this one a big 2 strikes........

You only get three strikes boys and girls.  


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Aa5drvr on June 06, 2007, 05:43:49 am
>>>You only get three boys and girls.

As for me, I'll take the 3 girls.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on June 06, 2007, 08:09:59 am
I caught something on the Ch. 6 news this morning as I was heading out of the house about the interim chief calling for re-evaluation of all 814 existing officers prior to adding any more to the force.  Anyone else see that?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on June 06, 2007, 08:45:47 am
quote:
Originally posted by Rico

quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

I am not surprised to read Wilbur's comments.

Why don't you try to give the guy a chance? Why do you act like you are the only ones who know how to fight crime?

This guy has great credentials as is willing to come here and try to make a difference, even knowing that it is as a temp. He is walking into a dysfunctional department that has replaced all the top deputies every year and are on record as being split.

I hope that the majority of police officers aren't as close-minded as you.




^
OK I gave the guy a chance... and I hoped he would turn out to be a Police and Law Enforcement savant.

Activating Police reserve officers to take low priority calls just don't get it..

What does the reserve officer do if his "low priority" bicycle theft turns into something much more sinister...?

If this turns out to be an example of the Mayor's ... "Public Safety" is priority one..!
I am going to the "Gun Show" at the Fairgrounds.

I have had dealings with reserve officers and I do not believe they are required to take psych. exams.  I am sure one of the PD on the Board will correct me if I am wrong.

This reminds me of sending "weekend warriors" (i.e. army reserve) to fight the war in Iraq...

This sort of thing only crosses the mind of one very distant from the problem......

1st Strike: she told me personally the State of the City address would not be delivered to the "Chamber".......

If this reflects the future of "Public Safety" I will give this one a big 2 strikes........

You only get three strikes boys and girls.  



http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070606_1_A1_spanc85612



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Chicken Little on June 06, 2007, 10:08:36 am
Rico,

In the paper (for what that's worth), it seemed he was simply saying that the reserves were underutilized.  I didn't see a mention of them taking low priority calls...was that talked about someplace else?

I thought the "division of time" discussion was interesting, particularly the Dept's desire to reduce adminstrative duties from the "supposed" standard of 33% down to 20% of an officer's time.  Bostrom also mentioned taking some reports by phone. (separate:  I wonder if that would encourage more people to report crime?)

From the article, I inferred that reservists might be working the phones and handling administrative duties.  Is there another source on this?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on June 06, 2007, 10:52:29 am
Thanks for posting that Rico.  I hadn't been to the "library" yet this morning when I made my last post.

Kind of leads me back to the old question of:

Is it better to gain a national or regional view of our PD and crime situation, or to retain the current culture in the PD which assumably understands our city and crime?

The underlying message I keep getting from the Chamber and the Mayor's office is that Tulsan's don't have a clue what is best for them and we need interlopers to decide what is best for us.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Chicken Little on June 06, 2007, 11:22:21 am
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

The underlying message I keep getting from the Chamber and the Mayor's office is that Tulsan's don't have a clue what is best for them and we need interlopers to decide what is best for us.

I definitely think Taylor is trying to change things, and she's brought in a "consultant" to do it; I'm now certain that he'll never be anything more than an "interim".  It looks like he's here to shake things up; he's definitely no "player's coach".  I'm not saying that's good or bad, but corporations and teams do it all the time.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on June 06, 2007, 12:39:58 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

The underlying message I keep getting from the Chamber and the Mayor's office is that Tulsan's don't have a clue what is best for them and we need interlopers to decide what is best for us.

I definitely think Taylor is trying to change things, and she's brought in a "consultant" to do it; I'm now certain that he'll never be anything more than an "interim".  It looks like he's here to shake things up; he's definitely no "player's coach".  I'm not saying that's good or bad, but corporations and teams do it all the time.



So far her approach offends me, but I'm willing to be open-minded and say it was all for the best down the road, if it really does wind up being better.  You can hold me to that, bookmark the message if you like. [;)]

I can see where it makes sense to take a long look at present resources and see if they are all being used effectively and efficiently prior to adding more payroll employees.  I wish the federal gov't would do more of that.  I bet you could shave 25% out of bureaucracies in 6 months, just with a surface scan.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on June 07, 2007, 12:28:19 pm
Who is the F.O.P.'s mathmetician?

From the Tulsa World . . . .

Police growth questioned
6/6/2007

“Bostrom was participating in council committee meeting discussions on whether the police force's current 814 officers are enough to effectively patrol the city.

Sgt. Richard Alexander of the Headquarters Division said the city's ratio of officers to residents is 2.01 for every 1,000.

By comparison, the regional average is 2.06 per 1,000 and the national average is 2.03 per 1,000, he said.”


Tulsa's 'lucky number' revealed
6/2/2007

382,457.

That was the U.S. Census Bureau's latest estimate of Tulsa's population as of 11 a.m. Friday, and the number that will determine the winner of the 1957 Plymouth Belvedere buried under the Tulsa County Courthouse lawn.”

814 officers/382.475 (thousand residents) = 2.128 officers per 1,000 residents – higher than the national and regional average


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on June 07, 2007, 02:56:36 pm
I don't know where Sgt Alexander's population number came from, but I checked the Census Bureau site and 382,457 is July of 2005 population, not current as of Friday, as it seemed the paper (or the mayor) implied.  Maybe the department is using more current numbers.  That could explain the difference.  Also, that argument was made by the Police Department, not the FOP.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on June 07, 2007, 03:07:51 pm
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa_fan

I don't know where Sgt Alexander's population number came from, but I checked the Census Bureau site and 382,457 is July of 2005 population, not current as of Friday, as it seemed the paper (or the mayor) implied.  Maybe the department is using more current numbers.  That could explain the difference.  Also, that argument was made by the Police Department, not the FOP.


Actually, they're using even older population figures.  Our population has been declining for the last several years.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: blindnil on June 07, 2007, 03:11:21 pm
A correction will reveal that police should have said 2.3 and 2.6, without the zero.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Chicken Little on June 07, 2007, 03:32:06 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

814 officers/382.475 (thousand residents) = 2.128 officers per 1,000 residents – higher than the national and regional average

Man, that's gotta smart.  The last two weeks people have been banging on about how we need more cops...now we find out that we have more than the national and regional?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on June 07, 2007, 03:44:38 pm
quote:
Originally posted by blindnil

A correction will reveal that police should have said 2.3 and 2.6, without the zero.


Actually, even that's apparently wrong.  According to the most recent update of the FBI's uniform crime report (http://"http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/police/index.html"), which I presume is the source of the information, the regional average for our region (west south-central) is 2.1 officers per 1,000 residents.  Our ratio is higher than even the corrected regional average.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on June 07, 2007, 03:49:25 pm
I don't know how to dig through the DOJ's website and find more recent data, but here is a link to a website (austin PD) that has the '04 police to citizen ratios.  In '04 the national average was 2.5, there are some other breakdown's as well.  So we are still well below the national average.  I do think we can be more effective but the truth is, we need more officers.  I like the idea that the council is actually trying to determine what that number is so we have something to strive for, not just a pie in the sky.  I'm sure they will come to the same conclusion, we need more officers.  The problem always is how to pay for them.

http://www.austinpolice.com/staffingsurvey.htm


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on June 07, 2007, 03:56:09 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by blindnil

A correction will reveal that police should have said 2.3 and 2.6, without the zero.


Actually, even that's apparently wrong.  According to the most recent update of the FBI's uniform crime report (http://"http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/police/index.html"), which I presume is the source of the information, the regional average for our region (west south-central) is 2.1 officers per 1,000 residents.  Our ratio is higher than even the corrected regional average.



The correction will be to the regional and national average, so we will still be well under, unless I'm missing something?  Even with the revised number of 2.1something, we are still below 2.5 or 2.3 or 2.6 whichever you use.  I think those numbers are a guide, but crime and call load should be factored into the equation.  How do you get a better response from police and also give them time to be proactive on fighting crime, not just running from call to call (way too fast as many like to point out . . . sorry had to throw that one in![:)])


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on June 07, 2007, 04:01:46 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by blindnil

A correction will reveal that police should have said 2.3 and 2.6, without the zero.


Actually, even that's apparently wrong.  According to the most recent update of the FBI's uniform crime report (http://"http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/police/index.html"), which I presume is the source of the information, the regional average for our region (west south-central) is 2.1 officers per 1,000 residents.  Our ratio is higher than even the corrected regional average.



I'm really missing something here.  I looked at your link (thanks for the info, its what I was looking for)  Table 70, 2005 data, West-South Central location, group 1 (250k+) the average is 2.6 ? ? ? For the entire region, it is 2.8.  I don't see anything at 2.1?  Here's a summary from the report, it shows the national average at 3.0

In the U.S. in 2005, the average number of full-time law enforcement employees in cities (both sworn officers and civilian) was 3.0 per 1,000 inhabitants.
Within cities in the Northeast, the rate of full-time law enforcement employees per 1,000 inhabitants was 3.5.

Within cities in the South, the rate of full-time law enforcement employees per 1,000 inhabitants was 3.4.

Within cities in the Midwest, the rate of full-time law enforcement employees per 1,000 inhabitants was 2.7.

Within cities in the West, the rate of full-time law enforcement employees per 1,000 inhabitants was 2.4.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on June 07, 2007, 04:55:09 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little

Rico,

In the paper (for what that's worth), it seemed he was simply saying that the reserves were underutilized.  I didn't see a mention of them taking low priority calls...was that talked about someplace else?

I thought the "division of time" discussion was interesting, particularly the Dept's desire to reduce adminstrative duties from the "supposed" standard of 33% down to 20% of an officer's time.  Bostrom also mentioned taking some reports by phone. (separate:  I wonder if that would encourage more people to report crime?)

From the article, I inferred that reservists might be working the phones and handling administrative duties.  Is there another source on this?



I'm not sure if people understand that the reserve officers are volunteer officers.  They receive no pay and do the job on their spare time for free.  It is no wonder the city wants to expand their role.  Also it should be noted that there are only 44 reserve officers on the department.

I thought the division of time was interesting also.  I'm all for freeing up time to be proactive but everyone needs to understand that the Chief is talking about cutting police services to free up that time.  

This whole converstaion boils down to what kind of police force do the citizens of Tulsa want.  If the citizens want a police force that is almost completely reactive then we do not need to cut any services and do not need to hire any additional officers.  If the citizens of Tulsa want a proactive police department then the department will either have to cut services to free up officers' time or hire more officers.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on June 07, 2007, 07:19:10 pm
If all ("volunteers") reservist could learn to shoot as well as Ken Yazzel..........That might have an effect on crime.

Hell... maybe they can open a "Dong's" Downtown...

If this fellow (the Chief temp.) had a blinding success rate that would be one thing...

From everything I have read... he has never had the kind of experience to advise the community of Tulsa.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wrinkle on June 07, 2007, 08:04:14 pm
For the record, name ONE police department in the U.S. intentionally designed to be a "reactive" service.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on June 07, 2007, 08:55:11 pm
Go to google.com and type in "proactive police departments". Read at your own leisure.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on June 07, 2007, 09:49:09 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Rico

If all ("volunteers") reservist could learn to shoot as well as Ken Yazzel..........That might have an effect on crime.

Hell... maybe they can open a "Dong's" Downtown...

If this fellow (the Chief temp.) had a blinding success rate that would be one thing...

From everything I have read... he has never had the kind of experience to advise the community of Tulsa.



He is a talking head...Paid for by the mayor herself.....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Chicken Little on June 08, 2007, 09:40:44 am
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010



I'm not sure if people understand that the reserve officers are volunteer officers.  They receive no pay and do the job on their spare time for free.  It is no wonder the city wants to expand their role.  Also it should be noted that there are only 44 reserve officers on the department.

I thought the division of time was interesting also.  I'm all for freeing up time to be proactive but everyone needs to understand that the Chief is talking about cutting police services to free up that time.  

This whole converstaion boils down to what kind of police force do the citizens of Tulsa want.  If the citizens want a police force that is almost completely reactive then we do not need to cut any services and do not need to hire any additional officers.  If the citizens of Tulsa want a proactive police department then the department will either have to cut services to free up officers' time or hire more officers.

I like what you are saying.  Having a police force that is proactive requires a strong, community-oriented, approach, does it not?  One could assume that this means more time on patrol and less on paperwork.  But it also might mean more face time with kids and neighbors, something that simply cannot be achieved from behind the wheel, regardless of how many cops we have.  
 
So, and again, I like the proactive strategy, making that case is really about the TPD saying (and doing) things differently than they have in the past.  Maybe you are changing things, and that message is not getting out, and that's a problem, too.

Regardless, it seems like the argument is going to have to get away from the numbers and into the actual strategies.  What does TPD plan to do to be proactive?  Will they drop in at more neighborhood meetings? Build more sub-stations? Get out of the car and talk to kids as they leave school? Do some foot patrols downtown?

I dunno what works, but if the cops want more officers, their main argument, that we are staffed below regional and national averages, was just torpedoed.  So, in order to make the case, it seems like you guys are going to have to start being more proactive with what you've got, and showing Tulsans how much extra time is needed to perform that face-to-face, customer-service oriented, proactive policing.

If you guys could target and "take back" a few neighorhoods with these proactive strategies, then I think you could make your case.  In the short run, it probably means doing more with less, and I don't know if you could even handle it.  But in the end, I think you'd get all the resources you need.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on July 11, 2007, 08:35:40 am
Corrected statistics


By Staff Reports
7/11/2007


John R. Copp (Letters, June 24) correctly identified problems with the numbers given for comparing the staffing of the Tulsa Police Department to other departments. The numbers originally given were incorrect. A correction was printed in the Tulsa World on June 8.

The numbers given to the City Council were based on the 2004 FBI Uniform Crime Reports. At that time the regional average was 2.6 officers per 1,000 residents and the national average was 2.3 officers per 1,000. Updated numbers are now available. Crime report numbers for 2005, the most recent year available, show that the regional average is 2.5 officers per 1,000 residents and the national average is 2.8 officers per 1,000. As of June 1, the Tulsa Police Department has 799 officers, which is 2.03 officers per 1,000 residents.

In order to meet the regional average, Tulsa would need 183 additional officers. To meet the national average, an additional 302 officers are needed. Population used is from 2000 Census, the most current available. Estimates of Tulsa's population since then have ranged from 393,049 to 382,457. Based on the lowest population numbers, an additional 157 to 272 officers are needed. The department has half the number of civilian support personnel compared to the national average.

The International Association of Chiefs of Police formula indicated a need for more than 227 additional officers.

The planned academy class of 20 officers will not be sufficient to keep up with the attrition rate for the year at 2.2 officers per month.

Richard A. Alexander, Tulsa Editor's note: Richard A. Alexander is a sergeant with the Tulsa Police Department.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on July 11, 2007, 10:18:59 am
So we had one of those "scrivener's errors" on the previous report, eh?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on July 11, 2007, 12:30:16 pm
We went from 814 officers in June to 799 officers in July?

15 retired at once?

I know that some bad guy smacked a couple of officers yesterday, are we down to 797?

On an unrelated note, assaulting a police officer should not be tolerated. I would handcuff the prisoner, then slam on the brakes a bunch of times.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on August 02, 2007, 12:03:18 am
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa_fan

"Bostrom oversaw the police and fire departments. Baker has not yet indicated whether Bostrom will be replaced or whether he will instead deal directly with the chiefs of those two departments."

hmmm, I can definitely see some foreshadowing here . . . .  He's not a candidate for the permanent Chief position, but he could likely be a candidate for a different position, especially if KT loses the court battle.  





^

As the days go by.... This seems to be the end game.

A shame that criminal activity... and Police morale have both shown to be affected by this.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on August 23, 2007, 01:28:28 pm
What a joke she has become.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070823_1_A1_spanc30362


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 23, 2007, 01:52:19 pm
Wow....Read those comments at the bottom....How many killings are we on pace for this year.....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 23, 2007, 02:13:22 pm
quote:

Taylor said she intends to hire a new chief soon who will be an at-will employee, serving at the pleasure of the mayor.


Is she still considering that gal that's been face down in the velcro?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: iplaw on August 23, 2007, 03:03:57 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:

Taylor said she intends to hire a new chief soon who will be an at-will employee, serving at the pleasure of the mayor.


Is she still considering that gal that's been face down in the velcro?



(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Disgusting/vomit-5.gif)


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 23, 2007, 03:04:49 pm
quote:
Originally posted by MH2010

What a joke she has become.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070823_1_A1_spanc30362



A real joke and a bitc$.

 
quote:
 "He doesn't believe the Police Department should be part of the team of the city," she said. "His view is that . . . he would work with the mayor but certainly not for the mayor."


That is 100% total B.S., she knows it and that quote makes her one ugly boss.  See what happens when you don't play right?  Everyone can be on her team as long as everyone agrees with the views of one person.  You don't need a team when you dictate!

Only the current mayor can take the already poor moral of a group of people and put that into negative numbers.

And I seriously doubt the Mayor has the authority to, all of a sudden, make a job position at-will, when it was covered by civil service.  Oh, except for her at-will appointed city attorney, who doesn't have the courage to go against who appointed her.  See what happens when you politicize job positions?

I'll say again... what a joke!


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Double A on August 23, 2007, 03:24:15 pm
If Kathy Taylor was on fire, I wouldn't even p#*s on her to put out the flames. Hell, I'd probably roast marshmallows over her and sing Kumbaya. This is a move straight outta the Bush play book, politicizing a job that should be apolitical. Hats off to Wells for telling her to shove it. She is a sorry excuse for a Democrat, she should do us a favor and leave the Party.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Townsend on August 23, 2007, 04:16:14 pm
She's denied she offered him the job.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: blindnil on August 23, 2007, 04:21:27 pm
She's quote in the World's story that she offered him the job! That they mutually agreed he souldn't take it because of philosophical differences. Now she's changing her tune again? Jeez!


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 23, 2007, 07:21:22 pm
quote:
"Whether or not the police chief is a civil service position or is a mayor's appointee is really irrelevant," Taylor said. "We're all accountable to the citizens of the City of Tulsa."  

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0807/449940.html

Now the Mayor talks out of both sides of her mouth.

Let me see if I get this straight.  You're only on 'the team' if you're not a civil service employee, which means 4,400 city employees aren't on 'the team'.  But whether or not you're on the team 'is irrelevant.'

I think I''m going to throw up in my mouth.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Aa5drvr on August 23, 2007, 07:55:09 pm
There was a comment this moring that Bill Wells may not have been strong enough on Gun Control as I.C. Bostrom.  

Ill bet Wells "gun control" in a firefight is just fine.

Do some flight aware searches and you will see the Taylor Lobeck aircraft fleet visits Wilmington from time to time.  Wonder what up with that?





Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on August 23, 2007, 08:51:02 pm
I have one question about this avoidable mess Taylor seems to have gotten the City of Tulsa into...

In the event the three officers win the Law Suit. (I am inclined to believe there is a greater possibility of this than them losing.)

Do any of the Attorneys that visit this board wish to take a stab at the financial obligations of the City?
(In the event the Judge rules for the plaintiffs...)

I am not an Attorney; but my best guess would be between 5 and 10 million "Punitive" per plaintiff and somewhere equal to that amount for the Penalty.

Maybe I just watch too much TV.... But I would still like to see what others better qualified think.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 24, 2007, 08:22:06 am
It's still her mistaken idea that you really can run a city like a corporate exec.  A city government is not a corporation.  You simply cannot do things on a whim and cannot treat taxpayers and their opinions like those of shareholders.

Here's what I predict:  I don't think she's stopping at Mayor.  I think she believes she's building a legacy and an impressive dossier.  When she runs against Inhofe for Senate, she's counting on being able to say:  "I overhauled city government.  I consolidated all city services in one building.  I improved the image of Tulsa, etc. ad nauseum."

It will sound impressive to the other million or so voters in the state she hasn't already pissed off.  She's counting on the people in OKC and all the small towns who don't pay attention to what happens in Tulsa to get her elected.  Even my apolitical friends are taking notice and making snarky comments.

FWIW- I bet she makes a "statement" hire on the police chief position.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 24, 2007, 08:28:26 am
The rumor going around is it will be:

http://www.northmiamipolice.com/administration/police_chief/


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 24, 2007, 08:31:46 am
So when John Sullivan's chief of staff is in the Mayor's office advising him to suspend the chief no big deal.  When Bush wanted Homeland Security personnel to serve at will this was enough to accuse his opponents of supporting Osama.  But Mayor Taylor wants to have a chief with a flame under his butt and this is all a political issue to help her advance to another office?  Riiiiiiiiight.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 24, 2007, 08:41:12 am
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger

So when John Sullivan's chief of staff is in the Mayor's office advising him to suspend the chief no big deal.  When Bush wanted Homeland Security personnel to serve at will this was enough to accuse his opponents of supporting Osama.  But Mayor Taylor wants to have a chief with a flame under his butt and this is all a political issue to help her advance to another office?  Riiiiiiiiight.



Were you there when Sully's CoS was in the mayor's office?  Rumor.

Homeland Security/Bush.  TPD/Taylor.  Apples & oranges.

Do you have a pudgy for our mayor or are you just trying to take another shot at Bush?  This isn't about Bush, this is about the TOTAL STUPIDITY in making your chief law enforcement officer a political appointment- REGARDLESS OF MERIT!


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 24, 2007, 08:47:31 am
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

The rumor going around is it will be:

http://www.northmiamipolice.com/administration/police_chief/



The candidate you refer to sure has an impressive resume. I think she would be great.

But aren't you the same poster who started this thread by saying that she was hiring a candidate from Detroit?

Are you just finding well-qualified people and starting rumors?  Detroit and Miami police should have a lot of experience fighting violent crime.

My sister lived in Miami and used to say that Detroit might be the murder capitol of America, but Miami had some high draft choices.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 24, 2007, 08:58:33 am
Gosh, that the Congressman's COS was in the Mayor's office was in the NTOA interim report, was it not? If not, I will gladly retract that statement.

At-will employees do not endanger public safety, in this instance having a person whose job is on the line may improve responsiveness.  Ohhhhhh but Wells does not want to work under the same conditions that most Tulsans work under - that would be 'at-will' employment.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 24, 2007, 09:16:38 am
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

The rumor going around is it will be:

http://www.northmiamipolice.com/administration/police_chief/



The candidate you refer to sure has an impressive resume. I think she would be great.

But aren't you the same poster who started this thread by saying that she was hiring a candidate from Detroit?

Are you just finding well-qualified people and starting rumors?  Detroit and Miami police should have a lot of experience fighting violent crime.

My sister lived in Miami and used to say that Detroit might be the murder capitol of America, but Miami had some high draft choices.



I'm sure you caught that word I used in both posts that says "RUMOR".  The first post was based on a Detroit source, not anything here in Tulsa.

And please don't get Miami Police confused with the North Miami Police.... two totally different law enforcement agencies and completely different in size.

And since our current Mayor doesn't think I'm part of 'the team', nor is any other employee a part of 'the team' when it comes to hiring a police chief, rumor is all any of us, at this point, have to go on.

What a novel concept it would be to keep you employees in the loop.  Never happen here, but what an idea!

And the current rumored candidate was a rumor even before the Detroit rumored candidate.

But again, rumor.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 24, 2007, 09:21:43 am
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Gosh, that the Congressman's COS was in the Mayor's office was in the NTOA interim report, was it not? If not, I will gladly retract that statement.

At-will employees do not endanger public safety, in this instance having a person whose job is on the line may improve responsiveness.  Ohhhhhh but Wells does not want to work under the same conditions that most Tulsans work under - that would be 'at-will' employment.



The Mayor could certainly be the poster-child for the exact reason civil service was born in the first place.  You don't have employee turnover simply based on the letter after someone's name, (R) or (D).

And if it is such positive thing to do, why don't we see all the other city department heads lining up asking to be at-will employees, or why don't we see the mayor talking about making all department heads at-will?

And if it is truly, in the Mayor's words, irrelevant, then why the big push to make the police chief at-will?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 24, 2007, 09:50:47 am
Why would someone want to leave Union protection and work at-will? I cannot think of any reason at all.  Why did the Bushiites oppose unionization of the DHS employees?  Getting someone fared is nearly impossible, which means it is nearly impossible to get fired.  All you have to do is hold on and in a few decades a copper parachute, that is why.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: patric on August 24, 2007, 10:07:07 am
The question of whether or not the Chief answers to the Mayor seemed to have been answered when Susan Savage was blocked from firing three bad vice cops who only got a wrist-slapping when their racket was exposed:

The Oklahoma Supreme Court has affirmed lower court rulings that prohibit Mayor Susan Savage and the city of Tulsa from disciplining three police officers who were already punished by Police Chief Ron Palmer.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=011229_Ne_a21rulin

The state's top court recently decided to leave intact a June decision by the Court of Civil Appeals, which had agreed with a district judge and ruled in favor of the Tulsa Fraternal Order of Police chapter and Officers Kevin Staats, Dan Tedrick and Dan Fuller.

Palmer suspended Staats, Tedrick and Fuller for 45 days without pay in May 2000 after he determined that they submitted false reports and gave untruthful statements to Internal Affairs officers linked to a traffic arrest.

The officers served those suspensions. Palmer also demoted Fuller upon finding that he failed to supervise properly.

In June 2000 letters to the three officers, Savage informed them that pretermination hearings had been scheduled to address "new information" that she had received indicating that "as a result of the improper arrest and false reports written to support the arrest, prosecutors have determined that your credibility as a witness in court" has been "highly damaged, if not destroyed."

Before any such hearings were conducted -- which could have led to the officers' firings -- Tulsa County District Judge Sharron Bubenik issued an injunction to prevent the mayor and city from disciplining the officers beyond the penalties Palmer had already imposed.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 24, 2007, 11:37:06 am
Making the chief answer to the mayor still wouldn't give the mayor the power to fire or discipline officers, though I'm sure the at-will city attorney would say that's possible.

Personally, I don't want our police department run like a friggin' corporation by some nominee brought in via patronage.  That ultimately is what could happen in the future.  Imagine having a former rental car executive running our PD- not someone with law enforcement experience.  Not far from fantasy if the mayor opens this Pandora's box.

Having the police chief as an at-will employee is worse than bone-headed.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 24, 2007, 12:00:36 pm
At least you are not trying to use logic on this one, Conan! [:P] If the Mayor wants to pay the political price, could she really do worse?  I would rather see an up and comer from the TPD have the position, but not if they do not see themselves working well with the Exec.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on August 24, 2007, 12:56:40 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

The rumor going around is it will be:

http://www.northmiamipolice.com/administration/police_chief/



That's no way to stir up all the misogeny on the force.  If you're going to do it, do it right.

I heard it's going to be . . . .

(http://media.canada.com/536d56c7-75a1-4105-acb9-66d4ee476d1f/ethridge.jpg)


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 24, 2007, 01:32:23 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

The rumor going around is it will be:

http://www.northmiamipolice.com/administration/police_chief/



That's no way to stir up all the misogeny on the force.  If you're going to do it, do it right.

I heard it's going to be . . . .

(http://media.canada.com/536d56c7-75a1-4105-acb9-66d4ee476d1f/ethridge.jpg)



Like I said, face down in the velcro...


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on August 24, 2007, 02:37:34 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Like I said, face down in the velcro...



Like I said, misogeny.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on August 24, 2007, 02:49:08 pm
Like I said
"what the hell does it matter.......If the City is defeated in Court all this money spent on this search is for bupkis."

 We are stuck with the expense and the PD.....

"Public Safety is job one"...KT

Is stuck with dealing with the mess.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 24, 2007, 02:51:23 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Rico

Like I said
"what the hell does it matter.......If the City is defeated in Court all this money spent on this search is for bupkis."

 We are stuck with the expense and the PD.....

"Public Safety is job one"...KT

Is stuck with dealing with the mess.



Yup.

Don't blame me, I sure as hell didn't help elect her.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 24, 2007, 03:05:10 pm
I heard this is the new police chief...

http://www.toontracker.com/totaltv/underdog.htm


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 24, 2007, 03:28:31 pm
quote:
Originally posted by recyclemichael

I heard this is the new police chief...

http://www.toontracker.com/totaltv/underdog.htm



Absolutely not true.  I've got it on the QT it's this guy:

(http://imagesource.allposters.com/images/pic/ADVG/312~U-S-Marshal-Matt-Dillon-Posters.jpg)


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Rico on August 24, 2007, 03:45:42 pm


Hey,..... either one of those guys will do just fine as long as they are ready for the hood... and  the friends they travel with.......

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/ithaca37st.jpg)

[}:)]


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Double A on August 24, 2007, 04:13:35 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Like I said, face down in the velcro...



Like I said, misogeny.

More like homophobia. Could you at least spell it right?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 24, 2007, 07:30:16 pm
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Why would someone want to leave Union protection and work at-will? I cannot think of any reason at all.  Why did the Bushiites oppose unionization of the DHS employees?  Getting someone fared is nearly impossible, which means it is nearly impossible to get fired.  All you have to do is hold on and in a few decades a copper parachute, that is why.



It has absolutely nothing to do with union protection.  The police chief is not covered by the union contract (per the contract) and many city employees are not members of a union.

It has to do with civil service protection.  Only being fired for cause, not because you got sideways with a politician.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 25, 2007, 06:17:14 am
Either the Chief would serve at the Mayor's leisure or not, is it not the same thing then ultimately if the 'not' is because of some labor agreement or other?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 25, 2007, 06:53:32 am
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Either the Chief would serve at the Mayor's leisure or not, is it not the same thing then ultimately if the 'not' is because of some labor agreement or other?



Again, I think you are confusing union contract (labor agreement) with civil service.  They are two totally different issues.

Civil Service is covered by the City Charter (Article X), not by any labor group's contract.  Law creates civil service, not a union contract.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 25, 2007, 07:50:48 am
Needless to say, you are right on the confusion.  From the outside though the effect appears the same.  What other City departments are allowed to vote on their managers? Is that part of the FOP agreement or is that via the charter?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 25, 2007, 09:01:00 am
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Needless to say, you are right on the confusion.  From the outside though the effect appears the same.  What other City departments are allowed to vote on their managers? Is that part of the FOP agreement or is that via the charter?


The Mayor is throwing out BS saying the FOP is trying to hire the next police chief.  I'm not even sure where that comes from, other then the fact three internal candidates believe the City Charter requires the chief to be hired from within when three internal candidates are certified.  We'll let the courts decide that.

Besides the FOP quoting the Charter and filing a grievance in reference to the three internal candidates, that is the extent of the FOP being involved in the hiring process (and would be required of any union to get involved, otherwise the union could be sued for 'failing to represent').

I have never known any mayor to allow the FOP to be involved in the hiring process.  I've never known of the FOP sending out applications, interviewing any candidates, taking a vote of the membership, or making any recommendation to the mayor as to who should be hired.

In my many years here, all past mayors have made the police chief hiring process very open, even to the extent of having citizen groups interview candidates and make recommendations.  That is, until the current mayor, who has made the entire process extremely secretive and not open to anyone .  As I've said before, where is the Tulsa World screaming 'OPEN RECORD' when it comes to the current hiring process.  Their silence speaks volumes.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 25, 2007, 09:04:18 am
That IS weird.  The impression is that the FOP is driving the process.  Kind of ironic that a Dem is screwing up relations with her most important Union on the eve of Labor Day.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: blindnil on August 25, 2007, 09:21:22 am
You've got to remember, the Tulsa World broke this story about the job offer to wells, so I think THAT speaks volumes. Besides, the mayor has been using private money to search for the new chief, thus thwarting open records laws.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Wilbur on August 25, 2007, 11:01:00 am
quote:
Originally posted by blindnil

You've got to remember, the Tulsa World broke this story about the job offer to wells, so I think THAT speaks volumes. Besides, the mayor has been using private money to search for the new chief, thus thwarting open records laws.



Actually, I think any good attorney would jump all over the 'thwarting open records laws', to quote you, and use that as their argument.  I don't believe government can 'thwart' open record just by claiming a private group is funding a certain item that ultimately leads to the same end for the government entity.  I firmly believe any court would see right through that and slap the hand of government.  Otherwise, where would open record start and stop?  Could you hide anything in government simply because you found a private group to fund your doings?  I don't think so.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 25, 2007, 11:16:22 am
Where do I sign for the impeachment.....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Double A on August 25, 2007, 06:27:49 pm
If violating the charter isn't grounds for recall I don't know what is.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 27, 2007, 09:49:00 am
The mayor needs to consider this is "our" police chief.  Not "hers".

I heard an interesting account this weekend of the mayor's meeting with Bill Wells.  She is not a nice person.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tim huntzinger on August 27, 2007, 10:01:15 am
That would be a rumour.  What is not a rumor is that which is in the NTOA 'Interim Report' which states flatly that Congressman Sullivan's COS was in the Mayor's office strategizing what to do with Chief Been.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 27, 2007, 01:09:08 pm
Funny thing....All the comments have disappeared from the article.....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 27, 2007, 01:21:52 pm
I think we should start a "Wilbur 4 Chief" petition.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on August 27, 2007, 01:24:18 pm
I'm just asking . . . but if she hired someone over the department, how is that different that Lafortune putting LaCroix (I think? some TFD) over both the Fire and Police departments?  Did that really have an impact on operations?  The mayor could hire her "chief" although I think it would have to be a commissioner or administrative officer or something that sits over the PD.  Then you still have your Chief within the department, subject to the civil service and really the hands on leader, while the middle man gets to run between the mayor and chief.  

I don't think she can eliminitate the chief position, which falls under civil service protection.  If she appoints someone it would be outside of that structure.  

Anyway, just my thought.  I just wish we would get someone in there that would go above and beyond to get the department back on track.  There are a lot of officers working their tushes off and all they hear is how much the mayor hates the police, and it's only getting worse.  Sad, when really their job is not even remotely political, simple, keep me and you safe.  

It's all very sad.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 28, 2007, 08:18:41 am
quote:
Originally posted by tulsa_fan

I'm just asking . . . but if she hired someone over the department, how is that different that Lafortune putting LaCroix (I think? some TFD) over both the Fire and Police departments?  Did that really have an impact on operations?  The mayor could hire her "chief" although I think it would have to be a commissioner or administrative officer or something that sits over the PD.  Then you still have your Chief within the department, subject to the civil service and really the hands on leader, while the middle man gets to run between the mayor and chief.  

I don't think she can eliminitate the chief position, which falls under civil service protection.  If she appoints someone it would be outside of that structure.  

Anyway, just my thought.  I just wish we would get someone in there that would go above and beyond to get the department back on track.  There are a lot of officers working their tushes off and all they hear is how much the mayor hates the police, and it's only getting worse.  Sad, when really their job is not even remotely political, simple, keep me and you safe.  

It's all very sad.



We used to have a police commissioner position in Tulsa.  If memory serves me correct, that was eliminated when we revised the charter and went with the city council form of gov't.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: aoxamaxoa on August 28, 2007, 09:21:48 am
I think it's a stroke of genius for the mayor to surround herself with at will positioning.

This process makes her totally accountable. While it may run contrary to civil service codes, the "kitchen cabinet" format will return the city to a "well oiled machine" process. The current "who's looking over my shoulder too paranoid to act" situation just does not work on the local level. Cronyism has been proven to work in major cities. We all know what a flop it is on the national level if the appointer is not very smart. I think our mayor is savy.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 28, 2007, 09:43:18 am
All puppets sound smart......


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: aoxamaxoa on August 28, 2007, 09:58:14 am
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

All puppets sound smart......



WOW. Really? Like Gone-zales? Brownie?
 Turd Blossom?

Again, on the local level, the town would run more efficiently with a strong mayor. We have only the past ( years prior to the fear created council form of government ) and the present ( just look at our streets and crime ) to draw a reasonable conclusion there should be new replacements at the will of the mayor unencumbered by civil service requirements.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Conan71 on August 28, 2007, 10:10:40 am
AOX,

I'm just curious how great this would sound to your partisan self if it were Bill Lessfortunate who had done this.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: aoxamaxoa on August 28, 2007, 10:16:47 am
CF,

Good point. Go back and read what I said about our president. Kennedy hired the best and the brightest.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 28, 2007, 01:21:54 pm
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

All puppets sound smart......



WOW. Really? Like Gone-zales? Brownie?
 Turd Blossom?

Again, on the local level, the town would run more efficiently with a strong mayor. We have only the past ( years prior to the fear created council form of government ) and the present ( just look at our streets and crime ) to draw a reasonable conclusion there should be new replacements at the will of the mayor unencumbered by civil service requirements.



No...Like The Mayor...Like for real....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 28, 2007, 01:22:43 pm
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

CF,

Good point. Go back and read what I said about our president. Kennedy hired the best and the brightest.




He hired is brother......


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: aoxamaxoa on August 28, 2007, 02:10:00 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

CF,

Good point. Go back and read what I said about our president. Kennedy hired the best and the brightest.




He hired is brother......



what I said....


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Breadburner on August 28, 2007, 02:32:54 pm
quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:
Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

CF,

Good point. Go back and read what I said about our president. Kennedy hired the best and the brightest.




He hired is brother......



what I said....



Where is he now......


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: aoxamaxoa on August 28, 2007, 02:42:31 pm
^Same place he was in 68. You were there?

Look....the Mayor needs to gain total control of the city. If she appoints at will a new chief, then come the next election you can vote against her if you think that decision was in error.

In the meantime, I like that there are fewer gun shows. And I think if you give her a chance, you will see that her leadership reflects a better vision for Tulsa than the red neck way....



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: shadows on August 28, 2007, 10:15:45 pm
The mayor under the amended charter is to furnish a police department.  The trial judge ruled that he could not see where this would have any effect on the department by this amendment.  17 years later and the citizens are beating their gums that the strong mayor, as defined under the charter does not retain such authority.   The conflict seems to be between civil service and the promotion through the ranks but leaves out the strong mayor authority under the amendment.  It was not overlooked forehand but seems to have been well planned by the system.

Don’t fail to be excited when the mayor, under her own private advicer, fulfills the job with her selection.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on August 29, 2007, 09:09:54 am
"Mayor Kathy Taylor will announce and introduce the selection of a police chief for the City of Tulsa.

The 3:30 p.m. press briefing will take place in Room 1101 of City Hall."


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Copperhead on August 29, 2007, 09:27:29 am
By 4:00 pm today, Tulsa will have a new police chief, well kinda new anyway, and the winner is?

Let us all welcome back Chief Ron Palmer!

First smart thing Mayor Taylor - aka MayTay has done since elected, IMHO . .

Glad to have you back Chief!  Even though you become her at-will chief, you are smart enough to work around that, since you had and likely retained the trust and support of the citizens and officers.

But PLEASE, first order of business, send Bostrom, the four-star impersonating chief packing, and take our uniform, weapon and other city owned property back asap - seeing him in Tulsa's uniform is almost as uncomfortable as having MayTay in the mayor's chair!

Good luck Ron, and may the Force Be With You!


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: tulsa_fan on August 29, 2007, 09:32:47 am
I think that is AWESOME!  Oh I hope he's as good as he was the first time!



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: iplaw on August 29, 2007, 09:32:48 am
And the winner is....

(http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/palassard.jpg)


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: aoxamaxoa on August 29, 2007, 09:33:25 am
Ron Palmer works. If true, the Mayor has once again pulled off a smart move.


sidebar comment removed


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on August 29, 2007, 09:42:53 am
Is he a black lesbian?  The FOP will accept nothing less.


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: iplaw on August 29, 2007, 09:46:31 am
quote:
Originally posted by Kiah

Is he a black lesbian?  The FOP will accept nothing less.

Don't you mean black, jewish lesbian?


Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Kiah on August 29, 2007, 09:58:20 am
The TulsaNow Forum scoops the Tulsa World again, by 14 minutes:

Sources: Former Police Chief Ron Palmer to return to top police post

by: STAFF REPORTS
8/29/2007  10:41 AM

Former Tulsa Police Chief Ron Palmer will be returned to his old post today, sources familiar with Mayor Kathy Taylor's decision say.

Taylor has announced plans to name a new police chief today at 3:30 p.m., but has not made the name public yet.

Palmer did not immediately return phone calls Wednesday.

Palmer served as police 1992-2002 and left to become a private security consultant.

David Bostrom, a law enforcement consultant from Wilmington, Del., has served as the interim chief since May.

Taylor has come under fire recently by some police for deciding the post will be an at-will post rather than one covered by civil service.

A lawsuit by the three rejected internal candidates is still pending in Tulsa County District Court. They maintain Taylor is required by the City Charter to hire one of them.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: MH2010 on August 29, 2007, 09:43:13 pm
I posted this reply in the other topic also..

Most officers are relieved Ron Palmer is coming back. The first rumor this morning was that Drew Diamond was the former chief that was going to be hired. After that scare, everyone realized it could have been alot worse.

Most officers respect Chief Palmer and are glad to see a familiar face in the top office. No one is happy about the "at will" aspect of his employment and most officers are curious if this will change how he will manage the police department.

As far as the FOP goes, I don't believe the lawsuits will be dropped regarding the hiring of internal candidates and the new "at will" aspect of the chief's position. In regards to Chief Palmer, the FOP is probably glad he is back in the chief's spot. I think the FOP won 28 out of 32 grievance arbitrations when he was in office.

The more interesting thing to watch will be the reaction of the BOC (Black Officers Coalition). They have no love for Chief Palmer. I wouldn't be surprised if the BOC went to federal court in an effort to get an injunction against the hiring of Chief Palmer. There is a section in the Consent Degree that talks about there will be no changes in the promotion process ect.

The BOC had chosen to stay out of the chief's fight because they thought the mayor would hire someone they could support. However, now that the mayor has rehired Palmer, I hear they are very angry and getting ready to fight to keep him out.



Title: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: Copperhead on August 29, 2007, 11:00:04 pm
Well said and very insightful.


Title: Re: Is Tulsa's Next Police Chief....
Post by: patric on January 11, 2020, 07:21:10 pm
Sorry to revive an old post, but sometimes its helpful to re-examine the road traveled rather than re-invent the wheel.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/tulsa-residents-officers-share-similar-vision-for-next-police-chief/article_16f73129-2834-569f-892e-ce87ad097319.html

No one will be able to say with a clear conscience that Mayor G.T. Bynum wasn’t open to hearing from Tulsans about what they’re looking for in the city’s next police chief and in the Police Department.

Last week alone he held three town hall meetings on the subject. He’s met with dozens of north Tulsa faith leaders, the local police union and representatives of the Hispanic community. He’s made dozens of phone calls and is spending this weekend making more.

“Throughout my discussions this week there was such a similarity between what people in the community and the city, the citizens, are hoping for from the next police chief and for policing over the next 10 years, and what the officers themselves hope for the next chief and want to see in the city and in policing over the next 10 years,” Bynum said.

“I don’t think both sides are aware of that (shared vision) because they haven’t had the luxury of communicating with one another as I have had over the last couple of weeks,” the mayor said.

Three of those shared aspirations became evident during last week’s town hall meetings, the mayor said: the desire for the next police chief to have high standards and a clear plan to hold officers accountable for meeting them; for the chief to be personally engaged in the community and expect the same of the officers; and for the department to have the best training in the nation.

Bynum has set no timeline for naming a successor to Chief Chuck Jordan, who is retiring effective Feb. 1. But he has made it clear that that person likely will be chosen from the seven internal candidates who have applied for the job.

“I don’t view as synonymous an internal candidate with the status quo,” he said. “I think someone who has been in the organization, who understands the organization — the good and the bad — and the people within the organization and also the issues we’ve been facing in Tulsa over the last several years as it relates to policing and community relations, is better positioned to continue the kinds of improvements we want.”

Plenty of speakers at last week’s town hall meetings let Bynum know they disagreed with him on that issue. Others urged him to select an African American or other minority. Given the sheer number of people he’s heard from, Bynum’s bound to disappoint more than a few Tulsans when he makes his decision.

He knows it.

“The clear recognition that I had during the week is that there is no candidate, there is no person alive, who can fit what expectations every person has,” he said.

He added: “That is the nature of selecting somebody for a job. There is always going to be people who don’t think that you got the right person. And then the real onus is on the person in the job to prove that they were worth the trust in placing it with them.”

At the start of each public meeting last week, the mayor laid out the qualities he is looking for in the next police chief. He wants someone who possesses strategies for and understands the importance of continuing existing policies to make the city safer; has bought into and understands the importance of community policing; has strong financial management skills; and is committed to innovation and the use of technology.

Bynum said he understands and appreciates the desire expressed by many Tulsans for more public engagement in the selection process, and he said he is working to finalize such a format.

He is adamant, however, about not turning the hiring process into a popularity contest.

“This is about finding the person, based on everything I have heard — and not just in the last week and a half but in the last three years, really in the last 12 years that I have been at the city — that people want to see from the Police Department and the chief who leads it,” Bynum said.