The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

[8D]do you think kids should have to wear uniforms? I think its okay you have to wear uniforms when you grow up and get a real job. or at least I have to wear scrubs.

We were required to wear a special blazer, tie and slacks at the private school I attended in Tulsa.  

Worse punishment was to have a teacher throw a chalk board eraser at you.  Left a big white mark on your jacket till you got it to the dry cleaners.

Never agreed with it, and they even enforced the dress code while borders and other day students were on campus.  

Never forget the night four of us were dissassemblying my Honda twin cylinder motorcycle engine on my study desk in my room in Driscoll Hall during Study Hall time.  The priest opened the door, and proclaimed, "May I remind you this is not an A&M school, I expect that mechanical device will be removed by tomorrow!"  

Before he left he checked the main caged roller bearings and suggested we replace the one that did not spin.  Never commented on the fact we were all wearing "off campus" Levis.  He was a pretty cool dorm-master.  

Thought the school uniforms were dumb then and I still do.  Guess if you are not an artist, producer, composer, entrepreneur or other free spirit, but an employee of some corporate run business, then perhaps a uniform of sorts is proper.  I never like wearing uniforms or dress suits much.  I avoid Weddings and Funerals due to that.

I am for the school uniforms and for one reason only - safety.

Parents have given up or just don't care how their kids dress these days. Girls look like tiny little hookers and boys can't seem to figure out where their waist is.

Kids don't always know what's best for them. Sometimes they need guidence and protection. No one seems to want to step up.

It's just one more way parents have failed yet again in the parenting department.

I think school uniforms are a great idea. In a school uniform everyone is equal, there are no labels and children are not divided by who can afford the latest clothes and who can’t. I wore school uniforms and I know it saved my mum a fortune. It also helps you realise what is and isn't acceptable work wear, It’s amazing that some of the people I have met who went to schools with no uniforms who still can’t do decent tie knots.

I spent my last three years of high school at a college prep school which required a blue blazer and tie.

At the time, it was expected you would wear a suit and tie or blazer and tie when you got out in the real world.  Now it seems like only lawyers or bankers wear ties, and it's even rare to see a male wear a tie in a "branch" bank.

Funny to think a college prep school is one of the "few" places to see a neck tie these days.

I was kicked out of Nathan Hale because I refused to cut my hair.  Ended up at a private school for long-haired kids in Dallas.  Guess where I stand on uniforms.  These days we hold kids to a higher standard than we were.  Read – hypocrites.

It’s a different story if there is a gang color issue going on.  That’s a matter of safety.

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Originally posted by Hometown

I was kicked out of Nathan Hale because I refused to cut my hair.  Ended up at a private school for long-haired kids in Dallas.  Guess where I stand on uniforms.  These days we hold kids to a higher standard than we were.  Read – hypocrites.

It’s a different story if there is a gang color issue going on.  That’s a matter of safety.

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I graduated from Hale in '75, just a few short years after you left.  By that time, all the boys there had shoulder-length hair, including myself.

I think the uniform issue is just a short-term fix to a longer-term problem.  The bigger issues are the rampant materialism of US society and the lack of parental discipline and parents supervision of the lives of children today.

You can't blame the kids, or the public schood system.  The slow demise of 2 parent households, kids being warehoused in daycare instead of being raised by their parents, etc.  I think we baby boomers and younger generations have been the worst parents on record.

Another result of the "Best Economy in 50 Years" syndrome.  Both parents required to work to make ends meet, or to stay ahead of the Joneses.  

Very few "Father Knows Best" families out there today.  Where the dad worked from 8am till around 5pm and arrived home to a wonderful home cooked meal prepared by a maid or perhaps his wife.  A meal where the entire family sat and ate and laughed and talked about spending their fortune on new cars, college education and vacations.

Today everyone in the household that is old enough to hold a job has one or perhaps two.  Gota keep the "Best Economy in 50 Years" rolling along at a brisk pace.

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Originally posted by AMP

Another result of the "Best Economy in 50 Years" syndrome.  Both parents required to work to make ends meet, or to stay ahead of the Joneses.  

Very few "Father Knows Best" families out there today.  Where the dad worked from 8am till around 5pm and arrived home to a wonderful home cooked meal prepared by a maid or perhaps his wife.  A meal where the entire family sat and ate and laughed and talked about spending their fortune on new cars, college education and vacations.

Today everyone in the household that is old enough to hold a job has one or perhaps two.  Gota keep the "Best Economy in 50 Years" rolling along at a brisk pace.

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I can't argue with you, I think US society today is just the natural evolution of a capitalist economy.  Buy more, consume more, can't have enough, inflation, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the middle class disappears, etc.  There will be a breaking point I believe, probably not in my lifetime or our children's lifetime...

But I think I am getting too off topic here.  The school uniform requirement is probably not a bad thing, IMO, for a short term fix to a longer term, and much more complicated problem.

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Originally posted by ky

[8D]do you think kids should have to wear uniforms? I think its okay you have to wear uniforms when you grow up and get a real job. or at least I have to wear scrubs.

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Yes I think kids should have to wear uniforms to school.School is a place for learning,not seeing who has what on.

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Originally posted by jamesrage

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Originally posted by ky

[8D]do you think kids should have to wear uniforms? I think its okay you have to wear uniforms when you grow up and get a real job. or at least I have to wear scrubs.

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Yes I think kids should have to wear uniforms to school.School is a place for learning,not seeing who has what on.

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Crap, I'm agreeing with Jamesrage. I might as well kill myself now.

I favor uniforms, because research proves that they create a consistent standard for all students attending a school. They increase a school's image. Inner city schools that have mandatory uniforms don't look as trashy, and the students feel like they are at a decent school, and not the Betty Ford Clinic.

It's a more respectable thing to do. Of course there are the kids that dress respectably anyway and get the short end of this stick, but the kids that act like retarded gangbangers really deserve uniforms.

Choosing your own outfit is an opportunity to develop good judgment and an opportunity to express your individuality.  Kids that never have an opportunity to exercise judgment won’t know what to do with it later in life.  

So some folks think kids today look funny.  Guess what, when my grandmother saw my mother in lipstick she thought that the young generation was in serious trouble.

And I’m old enough to remember when women weren’t allowed to wear pants to work.  Imagine, today women brazenly don menswear and prance about in public.

How about matching hospital gowns for nursing home patients?  That’s right you old boomers; get ready for nursing home uniforms.  And keep that hair above the collar.

Funny you should mention "hair above your collar".

When I was in high school at Will Rogers, There was a wrestling referee named "Onions" Martin that would make us wrestlers cut our hair on the side of the mat right before the match if he thought it was too long.

I once had to get the scissors from the equipment box, covered with sticky from the residue of white athletic tape, to give myself a little off the top before he would let me wrestle.

He was the total authority at that moment and believed that most of us long haired kids were just going to be trouble. He was a good referee, in fact is listed in the National Wrestling Hall of Fame.

When Onions died last year, I went to SuperCuts in his honor.

I've had three kids in several different school paths within TPS. One with uniforms from kindergarten through middle school.

I personally prefer the uniforms even though I was like Hometown during my high school days. (Got sent home for a moustache and sideburns!)

Why? Because of the horror of trying to keep up with expensive, ever changing fashion and the havoc it wreaks on your child's self esteem. Some adults like dressing their children up in a misguided effort to relive their "happy fashion" days and are willing to buy anything to keep the child ahead of the pack. They do it in every facet of education including sports and drama. It creates unnecessarily early divisions of "haves" and "have-nots" that last forever.

Believe me, uniforms or not, kids will differentiate and show their own personal style. Note bagging uniform pants, football players getting to wear a jersey on game day, collars flipped up or down.

I hate the passion for conformity of the current times, but uniforms are as much for the average parent as they are for disciplin and safety.

I agree with the cost factor. On the same note, perhaps we should all revert to driving air cooled Volkswagen Bugs.  Great gas mileage, little maintenance and all look the same.

Go Kart Racing sanctions have a similar rule that uses Intake Manifold restrictors.  No matter how much money a kids dad may have, the restrictor keeps the horsepower all equal so the big bucks guys have no advantage.

No, thanks. The Bugs do indeed get good mileage, but they pollute too much, and the heaters suck during the wintertime.

I'll stick to my 55 miles per gallon Honda Insight, thank you very much.

I am in strongly in favor of district wide uniforms for all grades for many reasons.

1) $, nice looking clothing is cheaper and longer lasting than trendy clothing.  P

2) Ease.  Khaki pants go with any shirt my 7 year old can pick out.  He knows what school clothes are and can put them together. Not only is that easier, but it gives him some self sufficiency.

3) Safety.  Not much of an argument in the elementary level, and little later on (since you can always find SOMETHING to differentiate. Ie., nothced eye brows).  Still, gets some merit I guess.

4) Learning environment.  School is NOT a fashion show.  Its not to show who knows whats is trendy or who has money.  Nor is it the place to push the limits of what should be tolerated (Coed Naked...).  Kids have an attention spam shorter than my, well, they're short.  They dont need more distractions.

5) Societal norms.  While it is true that few occupations wear ties to work, most uniforms are simply business casual, as are most offices.  It teaches them what will be expected of them not only at work, but in any environment they want to be respected by professionals.  You can hate the idea if you want to, but the fact of the matter is the guy in khakis and a polo will get more respect and less grief than the guy wearing 1 pair of tighty whitey's, a pair of boxers, some athletic shorts, and an over sized pair of jeans; each layered so you can see the others, crotch extending to his knees and shirt tucked in to proudly display his layered wonders.  I hesitate to break for the latter (Im a horrible person I know).

Let's take away the kids creativity and expression. Sweet...wait, how about let's not.

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Originally posted by deinstein

Let's take away the kids creativity and expression. Sweet...wait, how about let's not.

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Sap creativity? Let’s think about this for a moment. In the UK almost all children wear school uniforms. The UK has still managed to produce music, art, literature, plays. Some depending on your tastes were quite good. While I’m not saying a school uniform leads to a creative and fulfilling life, neither am I saying does it lead people to a life devoid of any creativity. Is there any study saying what you wear from the ages of 7 – 16 actually effect how you turn out as an adult?

What I find odd is that a generation that took individuality to an extreme should turn around and push conformity on their kids.  Our generation truly shattered all social conventions, witness the morbidly obese gay couple having a slug fest on the Barry Slinger Show.  Anything and everything is sacrosanct as long as “no one gets hurt.”  

Be true to yourself.  Well we certainly added new meaning to that phrase.

Now we are born again advocates for conformity.  Something is rotten here.

It reminds me of the saying, and I promise to botch it, the nail that stands up gets hammered down.  And we can’t wait to make it policy.

"Uniforms are great for conformity. Republicans and Evangelicals love conformity more than life itself."

Sounds like Right Wing Religious Nut Cases.

Also the Taliban comes to mind....

"Let's take away the kids creativity"

I found that line very interesting. It's like people think that clothes are the only way kids have to expess their individuality and I find that pathetic and more than a little sad.

Give the kids a paint brush, teach them to read and write and they can write poems and stories and illistrate them.

Teach them to sing and dance. Teach them to make music.

These things will not only help them express themselves but they will also give them a sense of accomplishment and pride.

That is something clothes just can't do.

Ya know, I've been up in the air about this whole uniform thing for a while.  And while I have issues on several sides of it, the main debates I have are about individuality.  On the for side, I have the whole allows everyone to be equal.  But, in the real world, it doesn't work that way.  Yes, in some work inviroments you are required to wear uniforms.  But this is still a choice.  You can choose to not work there, and there for not wear a uniform.  Then there are arguments that you are there to learn, not to have a fashion show.  Part of that is right, you are there to learn.  But do you really think that everything you learn in school is what teachers drone on about out of a book?  No, you have to learn about the diversities of the world around you, about social acceptance, and lack there of, and status.  These are the truths of life, so why should we shield our children from this so that they get a cold slap in the face when they enter the world? But, parents don't seem to want to bother with raising children today.  Now don't go throwing about this whole single parent inviroment stuff around, because that is just a bunch of bull.  Yes, it is better for a child to have two good parents, but one good parent is better then two poor parents.  So without the guidance that these children desperatly need from the ones that they should recieve it from, they are thrown to the wolves without the benifit of knowledge.  Floundering, they seek substanance, and this is generally found in unexpected ways.  This search, and since of finding, can come in outrages choices in appearance.  So, with the lack of guidance from responsible parents, then some form of control must be in place, and for the schools who are also tasked with teaching our children to survive in the world, can come down to something as simple as uniforms. I do not believe that this is the ultimate solution, but it is an attempt to move in the right direction.  Only time will tell if the attempt is warrented.  But, something must be done.

okay, so that one turned out a bit more lengthy then I had planned. lol I started typing and couldn't stop.  Sorry about being so longwinde there, just hope it gives you a chance to pause and think

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Originally posted by Hometown

What I find odd is that a generation that took individuality to an extreme should turn around and push conformity on their kids.  Our generation truly shattered all social conventions, witness the morbidly obese gay couple having a slug fest on the Barry Slinger Show.  

Be true to yourself.  Well we certainly added new meaning to that phrase.

Now we are born again advocates for conformity.  Something is rotten here.

It reminds me of the saying, and I promise to botch it, the nail that stands up gets hammered down.  And we can’t wait to make it policy.

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Though my politics tends to veer more toward the liberal side of the spectrum, perhaps there actually is a conservative aspect to me, insofar as I fondly look to the days when this nation was built upon the dreams and philosophies of non-conformists and individualists, people who themselves shattered social norms and conventions and broke out of certain constraints. But where individuality and personal ingenuity was once rewarded, it becomes something to be feared. In your more culturally conservative enclaves in this country where the political scene is more dominated by the interests of religious groups, conformity is not only demanded, it's enforced. It's a far cry from cities like New Orleans or New York, for instance, where it's not unusual to see nigh-infinite displays of individuality and self-expression amidst the populace; indeed, the culture is practically built upon these types of people!

Gaining your individualism is difficult, given the external pressure to conform. But once one casts off antiquated and restrictive standards of thought, dressing and grooming, and social etiquette and begins to adress life in better terms than one is used to-and actually comes out on top, there is a certain satisfaction to be had from that. Above all, it's to be expected that one will encourage successive generations to do the same.

As for the reference to Jerry Springer, it's good trashy TV, but it doesn't try to be something that it's not. In a way, it's being true to itself.

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Originally posted by SoonerRiceGrad

I favor uniforms, because research proves that they create a consistent standard for all students attending a school. They increase a school's image. Inner city schools that have mandatory uniforms don't look as trashy, and the students feel like they are at a decent school, and not the Betty Ford Clinic.

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I don't know about that. In New Orleans where there were school uniforms on a large scale, there was still poor quality of instruction, a high crime rate and a high dropout rate. A dress code is merely a band-aid at a train wreck. Something like this is merely a cosmetic change.

Catholic School Girls in Trouble

A film by Sameul L. Bronkowitz

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Originally posted by Phireman

Catholic School Girls in Trouble

A film by Sameul L. Bronkowitz

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OK, well, how about Superstar starring Molly Shannon from SNL?