The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

ONLY on Our T-World (http://"http://tulsaworld.cc/cblog/archives/668-Tulsa-Police-take-verified-alarm-plan-to-Mayor-Taylor.html").

The alarm companies have caused this problem. They call police to investigate and 98.7% of the time it is a false alarm.

They have created a business where they get paid and then make the public pick up the tab responding to false alarms.

Why should my tax dollars pay for a system that is so poorly operated? The KTUL story says that there were 24,000 alarm calls last year and only 312 were actual problems.

I want the police to do more important things than to repond to 23,688 false alarms.

" Less than 6 months later on March 25, 2005, Milwaukee's Police Chief Nannette Hegerty is already calling the program a success at the same time she's calling for a new ordinance banning homeowners and business owners from checking on their own homes or businesses when an alarm sounds. Chief Hegerty called the practice 'dangerous.'  "

I have to admit im a little concerned about any  ordinance that potentially compels a homeowner to confront a burglar before a call to the police is justified.  This one needs some work.

Private security.  Force the alarm companies to check their own alarms.  Pass the bill on to the owners.

B.S.

Business owners pay taxes for a police department.

What else are they doing in the middle of the night when most of these alarms go off? Who cares if most of them are false alarms, its not hurting anybody's tax dollars, its just interrupting late-night coffee and pancake-house breaks for the officers.

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Originally posted by Hawkins

B.S.

Business owners pay taxes for a police department.

What else are they doing in the middle of the night when most of these alarms go off? Who cares if most of them are false alarms, its not hurting anybody's tax dollars, its just interrupting late-night coffee and pancake-house breaks for the officers.

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Well, in the middle of the night we respond to armed robberies, rapes, domestic violence calls, 1st degree burglaries, child abuse, child neglect, elderly abuse, people stranded on the side of the road, assist calls from OHP, homicides, SWIK's, Assaults, AWDW's, disturbances, and prowler calls. The response times to all of these type calls would improve if we didn't answer 23,688 false alarms.

Why has everyone gone to the silent alarm?  Why not go back to the noisy audible alarms?  I can't imagine a thief hanging out in a house with a loud siren screaming for all the neighbors to hear.

How does an alarm company know if a tripped alarm is false or an actual break-in, without someone being there to inspect?  Several homes around me have had their home alarms go off over the past 5-6 years, and I have yet to see an alarm company representative or a TPD officer show up to investigate.  TPD simply does not have the manpower to check out all the alarm calls.
I think the best a homeowner can hope is the noise from an alarm will alert the neighbors and scare off any potential intruders.  I would not expect a police response.
Yes tulsa1603, I have at least one neighbor that has converted from a silent to audible alarm.  Silent alarms, in light of the TPD manpower situation, seem a waste of money to me.

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Originally posted by MH2010

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Originally posted by Hawkins

B.S.

Business owners pay taxes for a police department.

What else are they doing in the middle of the night when most of these alarms go off? Who cares if most of them are false alarms, its not hurting anybody's tax dollars, its just interrupting late-night coffee and pancake-house breaks for the officers.

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Well, in the middle of the night we respond to armed robberies, rapes, domestic violence calls, 1st degree burglaries, child abuse, child neglect, elderly abuse, people stranded on the side of the road, assist calls from OHP, homicides, SWIK's, Assaults, AWDW's, disturbances, and prowler calls. The response times to all of these type calls would improve if we didn't answer 23,688 false alarms.

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Amen, MH. You kept me from typing the same thing. But, you forget about snagging drunk drivers to help keep the taxpayers alive, and with reasonable insurance rates. At least the TPD has an alarm permit system. Out in the cuunty we still respond to the all alarms that go off every night at the same time, with the same trip information.

A paragraph on FOX23:
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=383b72ad-838b-4337-9e7e-ee195aa0bfbb

a little more on 6:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=117508

I have an alarm and TPD has only come out once. I was out of town as was any family who could check it for me, so TPD went out "at their leisure" just to make sure it was false. If TPD wanted to charge $50 for such a service, that would be fine too.

If an alarm has to be verifiable as true, why would you need an alarm?

Technology can save us on this.

Alarm companies can find reasonable ways to verify an alarm besides just calling the cops that motion detector went off or someone knocked hard on a door.

A camera system can be installed to be verification for just a few dollars more or two separate alarms (a window, door or motion detector) could be considered verification.

I think an audible alarm, a nosy neighbor and a well trained dog is the best combination.

A noisy dog is the best burglar alarm. I live in Red Fork, and nobody has any break-ins because there are barking dogs all over the place that start bellowing if anything's amiss.

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Originally posted by recyclemichael

Technology can save us on this.

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More up-to-date alarms contain programs to help verify their own reports, by analyzing sequences of violations to help distinguish a burglar's progress through a protected premises from that of a door being rattled by the wind.

This maker  (http://"http://www.homesecuritystore.com/detail_pages/PC1555S-5508.htm") features Cross Zone reporting that "provides an additional report to the central station about events on the premises.  The cross zone police code is transmitted when there are two different alarms during any armed-to-armed period."  

An exterior door or window opening isnt conclusive of a burglary, but if it is immediately followed by interior motion detection or the opening of interior doors, you can bet it isnt just the wind.    

I can realistically see response times being adjusted in accordance to more thorough reporting by either neighbors or the system itself, but god help us when someone is killed verifying their own alarm or because police downgraded their response.

God forbid if *anyone's* killed over *anything.*

But when you've got more than 98 percent of burglar alarms going off for no good reason, then something has to be done. You can't have cops running willy-nilly all over the place for the possibility of that 1.5 percent when there are obviously more pressing concerns.

It sounds like this is a problem for the alarm companies to solve. Or get yourselves a noisy dog.

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Originally posted by Hawkins

B.S.

Business owners pay taxes for a police department.

What else are they doing in the middle of the night when most of these alarms go off? Who cares if most of them are false alarms, its not hurting anybody's tax dollars, its just interrupting late-night coffee and pancake-house breaks for the officers.

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Truly, one of the stupidest posts in the history of this forum. Quite possibly the history of the entire Internet...

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Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
Truly, one of the stupidest posts in the history of this forum.

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Does have a certain uninformed quality, doesnt it?

...but there are times when you wonder aloud about our resources.  Yesterday a friend called 911 to report his car being stolen at work.  A tow truck driver just loaded it up about 5:30pm (according to the security guard who didnt think to challenge it).
By midnight still no TPD, but by then the window of opportunity provided by a timely description had long since closed.

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Originally posted by recyclemichael

Technology can save us on this.

Alarm companies can find reasonable ways to verify an alarm besides just calling the cops that motion detector went off or someone knocked hard on a door.

A camera system can be installed to be verification for just a few dollars more or two separate alarms (a window, door or motion detector) could be considered verification.

I think an audible alarm, a nosy neighbor and a well trained dog is the best combination.

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I don't have neighbors at the moment.

I am still for the idea that the alarm company contacts you, gives you the option, and you pay the city for the visit.

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Originally posted by sgrizzle

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Originally posted by recyclemichael

Technology can save us on this.

Alarm companies can find reasonable ways to verify an alarm besides just calling the cops that motion detector went off or someone knocked hard on a door.

A camera system can be installed to be verification for just a few dollars more or two separate alarms (a window, door or motion detector) could be considered verification.

I think an audible alarm, a nosy neighbor and a well trained dog is the best combination.

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I don't have neighbors at the moment.

I am still for the idea that the alarm company contacts you, gives you the option, and you pay the city for the visit.

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And while all this is happening, the burglars have ripped you off and are long gone.  The most a homeowner can hope is the noise from the alarm will scare off the intruders.  The best and cheapest solutions are to make your home burglar "unfriendly" and as visible as possible to the neighbors and street.  Keep trees and shrubs around your house trimmed and low.  Make sure your home is well lit outside at night.  Keep locks on outside gates at all times, keep fences and gates in good repair, and keep your doors and windows locked, even when you are home.  Don't do anything to make it any easier for criminals.  Take your trash cans in from the street as soon as possible; nothing screams "nobody's home" any louder than empty trash cans sitting by the curb.
I have lived in my mid-town Tulsa home for 20 years and have never experienced a break-in,  possibly because I follow the above common sense suggestions.  I did have one attempted burglary about 15 years ago, but the heavy duty dead bolt on my front door held up, and the scum were either scared off or gave up!  Knock on wood.

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Originally posted by Steve
And while all this is happening, the burglars have ripped you off and are long gone.  The most a homeowner can hope is the noise from the alarm will scare off the intruders.  The best and cheapest solutions are to make your home burglar "unfriendly" and as visible as possible to the neighbors and street.  Keep trees and shrubs around your house trimmed and low.  Make sure your home is well lit outside at night.

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Hardly anyone ever follows up on this advice with a good definition of "well lit" (or how to accomplish it).  Please resist the temptation to visit Home Depot till you've thought this one out.

Just as an exercise, lets say the purpose of an alarm is to
(1) inform the intruder he has been detected (and possibly cut short their plans),
(2) inform any occupants an intruder is detected (so that they can take defensive measures), and
(3) attract the attention of neighbors that could either act as witnesses, or who's presence or intervention could further disempower an intruder.

Getting a neighbor to make a 911 call would essentially be the only chance of having police arrive before the dirty deed is complete, regardless of whether or not you have an alarm permit (http://"http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title21.asp#Chapter19").

Your only other recourse seems to be getting a gun and some training, but that doesnt always work out (http://"http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/01/05/0106metapd.html").
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/politics/16437452.htm

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Originally posted by patric

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Originally posted by Steve
And while all this is happening, the burglars have ripped you off and are long gone.  The most a homeowner can hope is the noise from the alarm will scare off the intruders.  The best and cheapest solutions are to make your home burglar "unfriendly" and as visible as possible to the neighbors and street.  Keep trees and shrubs around your house trimmed and low.  Make sure your home is well lit outside at night.

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Hardly anyone ever follows up on this advice with a good definition of "well lit" (or how to accomplish it).  Please resist the temptation to visit Home Depot till you've thought this one out.

Just as an exercise, lets say the purpose of an alarm is to
(1) inform the intruder he has been detected (and possibly cut short their plans),
(2) inform any occupants an intruder is detected (so that they can take defensive measures), and
(3) attract the attention of neighbors that could either act as witnesses, or who's presence or intervention could further disempower an intruder.

Getting a neighbor to make a 911 call would essentially be the only chance of having police arrive before the dirty deed is complete, regardless of whether or not you have an alarm permit (http://"http://www.cityoftulsa.org/ourcity/ordinances/Title21.asp#Chapter19").

Your only other recourse seems to be getting a gun and some training, but that doesnt always work out (http://"http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/01/05/0106metapd.html").
http://www.fox21.com/Global/story.asp?S=5899975&nav=2KPp

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Well lit means not having shrubery or dark areas near points of entry, doors or windows, where intruders can hide or invade a property without neighbors seeing, and providing some form of electric lighting for these areas.  This is just common sense and if you can't comply with this, then you have no business being a homeowner.  
I was just trying to offer some common sense advise based on my own personal experience.  I have lived in my home for 20 years at 26th St. & Yale, just southeast of the fairgrounds.  Since I have owned this house, EVERY house surrounding my property has been burglarized, at least once.  But not my house, although I have had the attempted burglary about 15 years ago that I previously mentioned.  I think expensive burglar alarm systems are pretty much a waste of money, especially in my modest middle class neighborhood.  Just take some cheap, common sense effort and don't make your property susceptible.  It has worked for me.

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Originally posted by Steve

Just take some cheap, common sense effort and don't make your property susceptible.  It has worked for me.

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Wasnt disagreeing with you at all.
Just trying to be subtle (and topical) about the difference between modestly improving your night vision and putting your goodies in a spotlight.