The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

How many of you in favour of having a man made beach lagoon here in Tulsa?

I really like to see something like that in the near future. I think Tulsa have the potential to grow BIG just like any other cities.  

Where would you propose such a Beach to be built?

The Arkansas River near Tulsa is totally out of the question.  There are signs posted that strictly forbid anyone even coming into contact with the water there.  It has extreme pollution both from the up river sewage treatment plants and the sewage treatment plant adjacent to I-44 on the South West Side of the River.  

Not to mention all the petrol-chemicals that leach out into it from the various refineries along the rivers banks.  

The river looks totally different in Little Rock, Arkansas.  Sand has had time to filter out all the Chicken waste, human waste and petroleum distillates that are poured into the river from the Keystone dam to the Arkansas border.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMP

Where would you propose such a Beach to be built?

The Arkansas River near Tulsa is totally out of the question.  There are signs posted that strictly forbid anyone even coming into contact with the water there.  It has extreme pollution both from the up river sewage treatment plants and the sewage treatment plant adjacent to I-44 on the South West Side of the River.  

Not to mention all the petrol-chemicals that leach out into it from the various refineries along the rivers banks.  

The river looks totally different in Little Rock, Arkansas.  Sand has had time to filter out all the Chicken waste, human waste and petroleum distillates that are poured into the river from the Keystone dam to the Arkansas border.

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Those are ridiculous remarks. Where do you get your info on all that terrible pollution in the Arkansas River? From looking out your window as you cruise by on Riverside? From deduction by smelling the natural decomposition near any body of water? Or just common knowledge? For heavens sake how often must we pass on unfounded remarks as truth before someone says put up or shut up?

I am beginning to lose faith in the intelligence of Tulsans. This forum was my last hope for a refuge of common sense and literate discussion. Am I just naive?

"I am beginning to lose faith in the intelligence of Tulsans." - watery

No matter where we find ourselves, it's helpfull to be selective about where we park our faith.


"This forum was my last hope for a refuge of common sense and literate discussion."

Never let a few bogus, read: head-up-the-butt, posts ruin an entire forum.
It helps to blow-off steam on occassion by making wild-donkey posts of your own which are completley devoid of fact, relevence, and promper grammar.

"Am I just naive?"

By asking this question, you are hereby elevated above a responce of "completely" and welcomed into the club - the secret password is being sent to your email address.

Cheer up WaterBoy.

The lagoon idea comes from watching Brook Shields in that old movie too many times.

You and I know that the Arkansas River has some issues, but it ain't as bad as some perceive.

There will soon be a day that the TulsaNow crowd will be bragging to all their friends about how nice it is to have a natural and clean river in our town.

The Arkansas River and every river in America is dramatically cleaner than when we were kids. The Clean Water Act and the regulation of discharge over the past 35 years has done wonders and the perception will change.

Get in your car and drive to the West bank of the river.  All along the shore and by the Amphitheater are signs that state Do Not Come In contact with the water in this river.  

I will go there and take photos of the signs if you want.  They have been there for over a decade.

I know a person that works at the waste treatment plant at I-44 and the river. They have had to let untreated waste out into the river on occasion when the volume exceeds their processsing capacities.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMP

Get in your car and drive to the West bank of the river.  All along the shore and by the Amphitheater are signs that state Do Not Come In contact with the water in this river.  

I will go there and take photos of the signs if you want.  They have been there for over a decade.

I know a person that works at the waste treatment plant at I-44 and the river. They have had to let untreated waste out into the river on occasion when the volume exceeds their processsing capacities.

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Pshaw. And you know better. Read the signs closely. The water in that area is not considered (regularly) safe for swimming. You imply or state that it is dangerous for one time contact. Big difference. The water is not dangerously polluted.

Go to Grand Lake and look at the green tint. That is chicken pollution not in the Arkansas. Occasional overflows of sewage by the treatment plant occur but are monitored by the feds. Third hand remarks aside, it still doesn't mean you get sick from contact.

How bout they build one on Crow Creek...In the Warren's backyard...You might even get to use their pool if public tax dollars are used.....

Joes Wife, we do have a lagoon on the Arkansas river on the west bank. The Amphitheatre floats in it. I don't know what kind of lagoon you propose but this one is a mess. It stagnates because of no current. It has an inlet pipe on the upstream that is ineffective and its outlet mouth is clogged with sediment. It takes the runoff from the surrounding porous land which has high limestone dust content courtesy of the concrete plant. It is the final resting place for floating cups, fish bait containers and any other flotsam the river has.  The same thing occurs around the promontory on the east side near Rivers Edge Cafe.

Add in the misleading signs the health department posts in order to keep people from swimming and you get really bad PR for the river as people begin to think the whole river is in the same state.

Ironically the worst pollution on the river comes from street runoff draining the surrounding neighborhoods combined with the river's salinity. So the best places to develop commercially are the worst places to swim.

AMP wrote:

I know a person that works at the waste treatment plant at I-44 and the river. They have had to let untreated waste out into the river on occasion when the volume exceeds their processsing capacities.

<end clip>

Name names, dude. I don't trust this "I know a person" crap. If what you're saying is true, you're talking about major violations, and they need to be reported. But I doubt this actually happened. A release of *treated* waste probably occurred, which is as benign as you can get.

As for the river, I'll defer to waterboy and recyclemichael. They've both studied the river and been on it firsthand. They have demonstrated a lot more credibility and facts about the Arkansas -- a lot more than a guy who jumps to conclusions after seeing one set of signs.

According to my phone call today, to the Tulsa Health Department they suggested the only part of the water in the Arkansas River around Tulsa that should be touched by human beings is above the Keystone Dam on the Lake.

quote:

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Originally posted by AMP

Get in your car and drive to the West bank of the river.  All along the shore and by the Amphitheater are signs that state Do Not Come In contact with the water in this river.  

I will go there and take photos of the signs if you want.  They have been there for over a decade.

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I'm pretty sure the "don't swim in the river signs" are not due to pollution.  The Arkansas river is considered to be a body of water with unpredictable current.  It is the legal responsiblity of the city of Tulsa, Riverparks, and whoever else owns property directly on the river to address a potential drowning hazard by discouraging swimming or wading in the river.

quote:

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Originally posted by jdb

"I am beginning to lose faith in the intelligence of Tulsans." - watery

No matter where we find ourselves, it's helpfull to be selective about where we park our faith.


"This forum was my last hope for a refuge of common sense and literate discussion."

Never let a few bogus, read: head-up-the-butt, posts ruin an entire forum.
It helps to blow-off steam on occassion by making wild-donkey posts of your own which are completley devoid of fact, relevence, and promper grammar.

"Am I just naive?"

By asking this question, you are hereby elevated above a responce of "completely" and welcomed into the club - the secret password is being sent to your email address.

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You make me smile JD. I want to inbibe/inhale what ever you have nearby[;)]. You are an enlightened soul. It could be I am a little defensive because of my experiences. I want to live here and see Tulsa prosper. If I didn't believe what RM says about our future I would already have left. Life goes on.

Although I got two answers by phone today regarding humans coming into contact with the water in the Arkansas River downstream from the Keystone dam from the Health Department today, I am still waiting for the written response from the Tulsa City/County Health Department on these and other questions regarding the water in the Arkansas River between the Keystone Dam and the Bridge on Memorial Drive in Bixby.


Email is something like this...

Can you help me by answering a few questions I have regarding the quality of the water in the Arkansas River near Riverside Drive in Tulsa? I did not find the answers on your web site.

Me and my some of my friends were wanting to go swimming in the Arkansas River before the big construction projects begin on the Islands there.  We have always thought it would be fun to have a picnic out on one of the sand bars, and were wondering if the water in the river is okay to drink or to wash our cups out with, and then drink from them.  

Specifically the area between the 11th street bridge and the low water dam area. I believe it is or once was called Zink Lake.  Also if we are swimming in Zink Lake and swallow some of the water, will we get sick from it?  
 
We were also wanting to do some Cat Fishing on the Arkansas River down by that railroad bridge.  Are the Gar and other fish caught in the river okay to eat by humans?  

I have seen signs along the River that state "Do Not Contact the Water In This Area"
 
They were by the Amphitheater on the West Bank of the Arkansas River.  Do you know exactly what they read, and why they are there?
 
1. What is the status on human contact with water in the Arkansas River in the vicinity of Riverside Drive from Downtown and onto the Bridge on Memorial Drive near Bixby?
 
2. Is it okay for human beings to swim and have contact with that water?  

2a. Why was the KRMG River Raft Race dis-continued?  
2b Was it because of contamination of the water and haveing human beings in the river?
 
3. Do you approve of people eating FISH caught in that area of the river?  If not, what are the dangers?
 
4. Does Sand Springs dump treated waste water in the Arkansas?

4. a. Has Sand Springs Waste Water Treatment Plant ever dumpped untreated sewage into the Arkansas River?
 
5. Does the Waste Water Treatment Plant located near I-44 and the Arkansas River ever dumpped untreated sewage water into the Arkansas River?

5. a. Has that plant ever exceeded it's volume to treat and dumped untreated Sewage and or Sludge into the River when the volume exceeds their capacity to process?  
 
I await your answers...

You are asking the wrong people.

Try these folk...Oklahoma Water resources board

http://www.owrb.state.ok.us/quality/index.php

and these folk...Incog river plan

http://www.incog.org/ark%20river/default.htm

and these folk...Corps of Engineers

http://www.arkriver.org/CofE.htm

Randi Miller is not afraid to wade in the river

I wouldnt drink or wash my dishes in aaany river or lake. But I would swim in many. I dont think people should swim in parts of the arkansas, you never know when the dam may release more water, plus there may be metal pipes or such that have yet to be cleaned up.  Its not so polluted it would hurt you to wade in it or get the water on you, but a big hunk of metal, or submerged tree could do some damage.

Beaches as in white pearly sandy beach.. Palm trees etc. These man made beach are all ard the world.. for eg:
to name a few. Unfortunately, I'm not able to upload the pics here.. I guess you guys can google on it..

Ocean Dome, Japan - world's largest indoor water park
http://www.excitris.com/2005/09/27/seagaia-ocean-dome/

Southbank beach, Brisbane - Man made beach
really beautiful
http://goaustralia.about.com/od/qldsightseeing/a/southbank2.htm

Sentosa Island, Singapore - Palawan beach lagoon
and Tanjong Beach
http://wikitravel.org/en/Singapore/Sentosa


Tulsa should have stuffs like this.. it'll be great. I don't know if Tulsa is up to this.. but it'll boost Tulsa Tourism!

quote:

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Originally posted by AMP

Although I got two answers by phone today regarding humans coming into contact with the water in the Arkansas River downstream from the Keystone dam from the Health Department today, I am still waiting for the written response from the Tulsa City/County Health Department on these and other questions regarding the water in the Arkansas River between the Keystone Dam and the Bridge on Memorial Drive in Bixby.


Email is something like this...

Can you help me by answering a few questions I have regarding the quality of the water in the Arkansas River near Riverside Drive in Tulsa? I did not find the answers on your web site.

Me and my some of my friends were wanting to go swimming in the Arkansas River before the big construction projects begin on the Islands there.  We have always thought it would be fun to have a picnic out on one of the sand bars, and were wondering if the water in the river is okay to drink or to wash our cups out with, and then drink from them.  

Specifically the area between the 11th street bridge and the low water dam area. I believe it is or once was called Zink Lake.  Also if we are swimming in Zink Lake and swallow some of the water, will we get sick from it?  
 
We were also wanting to do some Cat Fishing on the Arkansas River down by that railroad bridge.  Are the Gar and other fish caught in the river okay to eat by humans?  

I have seen signs along the River that state "Do Not Contact the Water In This Area"
 
They were by the Amphitheater on the West Bank of the Arkansas River.  Do you know exactly what they read, and why they are there?
 
1. What is the status on human contact with water in the Arkansas River in the vicinity of Riverside Drive from Downtown and onto the Bridge on Memorial Drive near Bixby?
 
2. Is it okay for human beings to swim and have contact with that water?  

2a. Why was the KRMG River Raft Race dis-continued?  
2b Was it because of contamination of the water and haveing human beings in the river?
 
3. Do you approve of people eating FISH caught in that area of the river?  If not, what are the dangers?
 
4. Does Sand Springs dump treated waste water in the Arkansas?

4. a. Has Sand Springs Waste Water Treatment Plant ever dumpped untreated sewage into the Arkansas River?
 
5. Does the Waste Water Treatment Plant located near I-44 and the Arkansas River ever dumpped untreated sewage water into the Arkansas River?

5. a. Has that plant ever exceeded it's volume to treat and dumped untreated Sewage and or Sludge into the River when the volume exceeds their capacity to process?  
 
I await your answers...

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Good luck with those answers from any government employee who
(a.) has any factual knowledge
(b.) has been on his job more than 2 weeks
(c.) has actual experience with or contact with the river.

I spent three years operating on/in/around the river in those areas. Always was in contact in some way, occasionally ingested it. One of my employees used to swallow it upstream from SS on hot days. I had cuts, burns, scrapes from operating boats exposed to the river. If anything they healed faster than expected. No rashes, no weird physical maladies. We're all OK in spite of the posted signs, which cover someone's butt for sure, but have little specifics behind them. For God's sake don't ingest the water from 11th to 21st or near Jenks after a rain or during a drought but incidental contact is not dangerous. One would wonder if you get out to visit nature much.

"I want to inbibe/inhale what ever you have nearby." - Watery


Just good ole Riverwater - on the rocks.

Your welcome to come join in, I get it by the bucketfull when the corp. finally decides to let some more water out.

Cheers, jdb