The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

So a $2B theme park the size of Disney World is going to be built in Vinita by Fall 2026. Seems like a legit Branson-based business and the website is full of the information you'd expect. Still seems surprising to place it 60 miles from any city and so far from Dallas/KC/St. Louis.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/2b-theme-park-similar-to-disneyland-planned-for-vinita/article_b4d7e374-24bb-11ee-997d-8343bdab83d0.html

https://www.americanheartlandthemepark.com/

Huh. Wish them luck.

I had been wondering when this would get published. I've heard a little about it, and am so confused. Phase 1 is the hotel/water park, with the rest of the theme park to come. I don't think anybody is thinking that they are just building the hotel and the rest spends 10 years being "around the corner" though.

I know where they can get a good deal on a Sky Ride to travel across parts of the park.  ;D

Great news for Tulsa MSA, this will be a game-changer. All of NE Oklahoma will embrace this along with tourists throughout the country. It will be Big League and awesome.

https://twitter.com/kolbyratigan/status/1681692240496975878?s=20

GO T-TOWN!

I wasn't sure whether this was going to be posted about in here or the burbs forum, so I made a post there, but I'll reiterate:

I've heard this one before. Developers with no connection to the theme park industry making a splash by promising billions of dollar poured into a vague concept in the middle of nowhere. Last time was down in Texas and Muscle Shoals AL for a confusing two park pitch: https://attractionsmagazine.com/exclusive-dreamvision-theme-park-plans-become-a-nightmare/

There are several other examples. Grand Texas was a more legit theme park/resort/outlet mall proposal that resulted in just a water park and an RV campground after years of effort - and I consider that pretty good, all things considered. Getting something like this off the ground is not easy.

If you had $2 billion, where would you invest it? Even if your heart is set on a resort, why Vinita? Wouldn't you want to be closer to an airport and existing destinations? Grand Lake gets some traffic, but not that much. With this money, you could move in on Branson and easily compete with SDC - and Branson has an airport that is hardly being used. You could also build down on the coast, or anywhere else that gets traffic already. Why would they pick Vinita other than it being cheap, which shouldn't matter if they actually have access to $2 billion.

Awesome but only one coaster and it’s wooden.
And, I’ll believe it when they are actually starting construction.

I see that this is a division of Mansion Entertainment Group out of Branson MO and they seemed to be involved in recording studios, TV programming, animation and the presenting organization for the 2024 Rose Bowl Parade.

https://www.mansionentertainmentgroup.com/ (https://www.mansionentertainmentgroup.com/)

There's at least a couple coasters shown in the concept artwork, and it's only conceptual regarding the rides I assume. Wooden coasters can be pretty awesome if they are designed and maintained well. Most of the wooden manufacturers now utilize hybrid track systems that are smoother and take less maintenance.

My guess?

You can build it for $2 billion in Vinita when it may cost twice as much (or more) in some of those areas you describe.

Some advantages of Vinita off the top of my head:

* It's literally on I-44 giving it good, direct interstate access.
* It's almost equidistant between the Tulsa metro with ~1mm people an NW Arkansas with another ~600K
* There isn't an airport right in Vinita obviously, but it's a quick ~40 minute drive down I-44 to TIA or ~90 minutes to Bentonville.
* It's a naturally beautiful area and is in close proximity to Grand Lake, which provides some extra vacation/getaway "synergy"

I guess I don't see how this is any different than Branson, Missouri, was when it was being built up essentially in the middle of nowhere 50-60 years ago. In fact, Vinita has better access to travel infrastructure and population base than Branson did.

I'm not saying it will be a success or will ever even get built, but (to me) it does make some sense.

I don't like the comparison to disney world that they talked about. I get that they are disney people, but you could have done Kings Dominion, Silver Dollar City, or Hershey Park and let people know what you are actually thinking. Dollywood may also have been a solid name to drop. I still think this is kinda crazy and it may be a scam, but at least the plans seem pretty concrete and it isn't the craziest concept I've heard.

I think the crazy thing to me is Vinita is middle of Cherokee Nation and I haven't seen anything about their involvement. When I first started to hear rumors of it, sorta figured that we would be hearing that Quapaw/Wyandotte/etc had signed an agreement.

There is actually a small airport at Vinita but you are correct that it is not suitable for the type of traffic for a theme park.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/H04

It's a short walk, with access, to the restaurant over I-44/Will Rogers Tpk.  It's a favorite "hundred dollar hamburger" place for small planes.

https://goo.gl/maps/tCpMkW6fC1xe94gBA

Hmmmm - nothing on their website makes it seem like they have $2b in the bank or even could raise it. Plus - that's $2b to build it - it's going to need some deep pockets to keep it running long enough to be profitable. It all just seems too good to be true in a ponzi scheme sort of way. Maybe if they named it "Bell's".

Disney is an apt comparison if they are indeed going to build an animation empire with any sort of significant intellectual property. The rides would be indoor and highly thematic rather than focusing on forces. KD/Hershey are all about giant outdoor roller coasters and base thrill rides. SDC used to copy Disney (literally using a lot of the same engineers back in the 1960's-80's) and had more indoor and highly thematic rides, but now they buy the same stuff as all the other parks and just dress it up a little more.

One of the big questions is, what are they really basing this park on? They clearly have some big media goals, but so far their company is a joke. One animated film about their own founder that was probably outsourced. I don't think the kids are going to get excited about a film that follows an old rich white guy's life. I'm sure they have other plans, but many have tried this before and failed. HFEC, the owners of both SDC and DW also own an animation company. They actually have one semi-successful kids show about trains called Chuggington or something like that. They actually had a thing for it at SDC last year.

I don't think they need approval from the Cherokee Nation. They own the land - it's not part of a controlled reservation.

Doing a little looking around, Mansion Entertainment was founded by Gene Bicknell who started out as a Pizza Hut franchisee in 1962 and now owns Mansion, NPC (Pizza Hut stores) and American Media which owns a dozen radio stations in the US.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220624005013/en/O.-Gene-Bicknell-Pens-a-Compelling-Story-of-Triumph-Over-Isolation-With-the-Acclaimed-Book-%E2%80%9CHERMIT-A-NOVEL%E2%80%9D (https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220624005013/en/O.-Gene-Bicknell-Pens-a-Compelling-Story-of-Triumph-Over-Isolation-With-the-Acclaimed-Book-%E2%80%9CHERMIT-A-NOVEL%E2%80%9D)


https://rbr.com/american-media-investments-expands/ (https://rbr.com/american-media-investments-expands/)

I get closer to Vinita every month in my latest projects.  This is pretty insane stuff someone is slinging around.   If someone has $2 Billion to sling around like that, and this project is what they choose to do with it... well, they need some adult supervision!

Or maybe a few less adult beverages.

 ;D

Bring in on baby, bring it on...  ...tired of this attitude about there being nothing/anything to do in Oklahoma.

Hope this $2B Disneyland-sized theme park proposed for Oklahoma comes to fruition.   There are many variables involved in a development of this size.

Got to admit:  Haven't heard of anything of this magnitude and size since the news broke in the 70s about Seven Continents multi-million dollar theme park being proposed between OKC and TUL--never came to fruition.

Wait and see how this turns out.  Tulsa metro is growing, investments are being made in other areas besides California, Texas,  Florida and Georgia. Oklahoma's weather isn't ideal for a year round Disneyland-sized theme park--but given the trend toward climate change, who knows what's in store for the future.  

But nothing/anything to do, along with our public school system and general attitude toward sex education, would help explain the teen pregnancy rate in Oklahoma.

 :(

Teen teen pregnancy rate in Oklahoma, does need to be addressed.  

A great large theme park will give them more options about outlets to go and things to do in Oklahoma.

If they build this theme park, it will transform Tulsa into a tourist destination.   People will see what a beautiful city you have and the many places to see.  

The food, restaurant options in Tulsa are second-to-none in Oklahoma.  Whenever, I visit Tulsa, never had any concerns about were to eat; it was more about
finding time to go to all the places available.

The group behind this has answered a few questions... and those answers definitely leave something to be desired.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/2b-theme-park-planned-off-route-66-questions-and-answers/article_88de885e-25a1-11ee-b527-07b0e77564fe.html

So basically, there is a single funding source for this $2 BILLION theme park and that source is a 90 year old man with a net worth somewhere around $100 million. He's a rich guy for sure, but only rich enough to get this proposal started - certainly not rich enough to even break ground on the theme park the way it has been described. At this rate, like I and others have said, they will get the RV resort built and it will probably stop there or be scaled back massively. They might get some various attractions built like an off-road park, mini-golf, a little water park, etc. All would go well with an RV resort. They aren't going to build a Disney competitor unless they attract a massive pool of investors willing to chip in a billion dollars. Even then, they are at half of what they said this would cost. The projected attendance numbers still make no sense, so I doubt they've done much in the way of accurate analysis for how to get from here to there. Sadly, I am not sure their one backer will even see the RV park open. It's a tough spot to be in when the guy behind it all is already living on borrowed time. What happens if he passes away before they even get the first phase open? I'm sure it's been discussed within their company, but still, he seems to be the driving force behind things, and his age is probably why they are crashing the schedule.

I'll be happy that Vinita/Grand Lake will get some attention and investment, but I just am not naive enough to believe it will live up to anything near the hype that they've created. It's almost a curse to announce a major theme park like this. Unless you've already got the money in hand, it probably won't happen.

According to this, and take it with a grain of salt, Bicknell's net worth is around 240 million: https://oatuu.org/gene-bicknell-net-worth-the-story-of-a-pizza-hut-mogul/

His son apparently has a much higher net worth of around half a billion.

Not that this matters since I doubt this gets close to being built anyway, but Gene Bicknell actually has more money than I thought.

I just looked and ODOT has a 2027 Grade/Drain/Bridge&Surface project there. I don't know what the plans are there, but I'd also think I would want to be opening shortly after the road. Can't imagine they set it up for a debut year, then close and have highway construction out in front for the second year.

I also just have a lot of other questions about the infrastructure. Is this going to be well water that they treat themselves? Can vinita municipal take on all the extra water/sewer capacity? Part of me thinks that a water park would have a lot of waste water, but I really don't even know.

Also, I know Grand Lake is popular and am really curious if I start to hear more about taking a long weekend to do Heartland/Grand Lake. You are going to drive right by this on the way to Monkey Island. I would have been insufferable as a kid demanding to go.

Had to look it up. This is from The Oklahoman back in 1983 about three failed parks including a $100million Seven Continents Park in Stroud.


https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1983/08/19/is-it-really-a-biggie/62834551007/ (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1983/08/19/is-it-really-a-biggie/62834551007/)

There's an article in the World but it's behind a paywall. Here's the link for those that have access.

https://tulsaworld.com/archive/economic-merry-go-round-killed-dreams-for-stroud-theme-park/article_62619608-e2a5-5e60-8655-a8fe05b78b97.html (https://tulsaworld.com/archive/economic-merry-go-round-killed-dreams-for-stroud-theme-park/article_62619608-e2a5-5e60-8655-a8fe05b78b97.html)

It would all depend on who gets paid and how much....

If they are going to want world class attendance, they are going to have to create world class attractions and rides. Each ride/attraction can cost hundreds of millions.  Just got back from Disney World yesterday. Rode Rise of the Resistance for the first time.... WOW! Absolutely incredible.

Here are some numbers I scoured from the web, most of these I believe take inflation into account.

Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure $270 million

Pandora world of Avatar ride, 500 million

Star Wars Galaxy’s edge, 1 billion

Spaceship Earth 800 million (possibly as high as 1.2 billion with inflation)

Test Track 290 million

Radiator Springs Racers 200 million

Tower of Terror 140 million

Pooh’s Honey Hunt 165 million

Rise of the Resistance 225 million

Pirates of the Caribbean (Shanghai) 400 million

Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind 450  million

Even with the pullback of moving the Disney headquarters to Lake Nona Florida, Disney still has about 17 billion in additional projects slated for the next decade....


"He cited “changing business conditions” as a reason for canceling the Lake Nona project. “I remain optimistic about the direction of our Walt Disney World business,” Mr. D’Amaro said in the memo. He noted that $17 billion was still earmarked for construction at Disney World over the next decade — growth that would create an estimated 13,000 jobs. “I hope we’re able to,” he said."

These theme parks are constantly one upping each other so have to keep investing to stay relevant. Disney not only competes against other like Universal, but against itself whenever it opens a new theme park, land, or ride in another country. The quality and expectations keeps going up.

A friend sent me this link, and I was kind of blown away that they are expecting 4.9 mil visitors a year. I had been hearing something more in line with 3 mil, which is a bit higher than SDC, but sorta believable. I just keep thinking that if this is a park comparable in size to Silver Dollar City it makes sense. When I start to hear their numbers going up towards 2xSilver Dollar City or getting close to a six flags, I start to have visions of frontier city next to an RV Park.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/trending/article/american-hearland-theme-park-oklahoma-2026-18257322.php

I've heard that the rides have already been started and plans are getting detailed out for buildings and infrastructure, but it still just baffles me.

Disney is insane and in a world of their own... almost literally. They basically built their own global entertainment city that by itself has a massive effect on the US tourism industry. It's foolish to even attempt to compare to them unless you really are spending multiple billions at a time. I know they are trying to tout having

For some more reasonable numbers, SDC commonly spends ~$30 million per project, and that results in big flashy rides such as Time Traveler and Mystic River Falls. SDC is considered a cut above Cedar Fair (Cedar Point, King's Island, etc.) and certainly above Six Flags. They are still well below Disney and Universal in terms of big, highly-technical indoor rides, but they buy quality rides and dress them up a bit. You can do a lot with $30 million, and not every ride needs to be a giant experience. I guess it depends on exactly the level of detail and atmosphere they want.

There's a big difference to how Disney approaches something vs. Six Flags. SF just wants a ride - any ride they can get as cheap as possible - to fill a void in their park and look good on a billboard/media post for a year until they come up with the next thing. Few rides at SF parks are really memorable outside the coasters, and SF doesn't build many big roller coasters any more like they used to (they've run themselves into bankruptcy a couple times at least and as of last year were having money troubles again). Disney, meanwhile, has more money than god and starts and ends their design choices by focusing on amplifying as much of the guest experience as they can so that every ride in the park is a big deal. SDC is a bit of an odd duck - they started off as a cave attraction and started adding rides around the same time Disney was getting big. They actually did share some of the same engineers and had similar rides at SDC as Disney during the early years (Fire-in-the-hole, Flooded Mine, Float Trip, etc.). These days they still have a big focus on the guest experience, but they've gotten a bit sloppier with some of their big rides and have just throw a bit of decoration on them. Dollywood, the sister park of SDC, just opened a brand new roller coaster with minimal theming that wouldn't look out of place at Six Flags. It's hard to draw the line with ROI on thematics unless you are drawing in multiple millions of guests who stay for extended periods.

These people seem like they want to create a high level space, but it remains to be seen if they could pull it off, despite having a few "Disney engineers" on staff, whatever that means.

Has anybody heard any rumors about something similar going in on the Arkansas side?

Nope. There are plenty of rumors about this kind of stuff all the time, but most are absolute nonsense that get spouted on FB and spread around for the fun of it.

There's no way someone would open a third major theme park in this area. It's crazy that this is progressing as it is.