The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/family-buys-more-than-100-acres-in-broken-arrow-for-upcoming-amazing-venture

The article seems to be alluding to something like Bell's opening back up. Anyone have any more info on this?

It could also be like the Freedom Georgia Initiative where black families pooled their money and bought 100 acres in Georgia or some giant Noah's Ark recreation or Jethro Bodine's Beverly Hillbillies Mansion and Casino is finally going to happen or maybe just maybe if we're really lucky... the world's first Collectible Spoon Museum.

Yea so I have no valid information whatsoever about this.  ;D

I do believe it's Bell's. After numerous setbacks over the years, I think they finally have a partner, financing, and location to get something off the ground. Might not be very big at first, but hopefully it will grow back to something like what we had before. Hopefully even better.

Announcement should be coming tomorrow morning.

Conan!!! Robbie Bell business plan - stat!!!!

Interested to know who their financial backers are because 100 acres is a significant buy.  Where is this exactly on the Creek Turnpike? 

Between this and the OKANA resort announcement in OKC those are some ambitious projects, exciting to see.

Confirmed to be Bell's. I got to watch part of the news conference and it actually sounds pretty awesome! They're bringing back all the favorite rides, adding a water park, adding VR entertainment, a kid park, and much more. They'll be open 10 months out of the year and will be trying to minimize the impact on the land itself, leaving trees where they can, etc.

If executed well this will be fantastic.

There has got to be some serious money behind this - I can only guess $100m+. Wonder who they got to put up that kind of dough?

They have a partner, but I haven't figured out who it is yet. Several of their previous attempts were thwarted when partners pulled out or in one case died unexpectedly. They aren't doing this by themselves. I just hope they have the operations side handled well. These days it is much more technical than it was in the days of paper ride tickets at the old Bell's. People will expect to pay for everything through their phone, for one thing. Staffing is also a major challenge, and they were never good at it in the old days from what I hear. Still, I think Bell's got too much flak back in the old days. It operated reasonably well in spite of things. Six Flags Over Texas has many of the same issues that people complained about with Bell's, but they get 10% of the flak just because they are bigger and better known.

I'm ecstatic about this project. I have been dying for Tulsa to get an amusement park again. No joke, I was looking into doing something myself in a few years if Bell's never came back.

BROKEN ARROW — Bell's Amusement Park will be returning, 15 years after it closed in Tulsa, to a 100-acre property in Broken Arrow.

The park is expected to be 10 times the size of the original Bell's, with new rides as well as old favorites. Smaller children will have a piece of the park with size-appropriate rides, as well.

The revived Bell's, with a water park, will be open about 10 months out of the year near Kenosha (71st) Street and the Creek Turnpike.

Bell’s Amusement Park closed after the 2006 season at the Tulsa County Fairgrounds when the county didn’t renew the park’s lease after it operated there since 1951. A much smaller version of the park briefly operated in 2013 in the parking lot of Swick’s Flea Market in west Tulsa.

The county commission in 2006 indicated they opted against renewing Bell's lease at the Tulsa Expo Square fairgrounds because of issues related to the park's business plan. The de facto closure became a point of contention during the next election when a member of the Bell family challenged one of the county commissioners who had made the call.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/bells-amusement-park-being-revived-in-broken-arrow-family-announces-with-city-officials/article_403ac4e8-3d7a-11ec-b361-178f1f816e9b.html

The more I think about it maybe my $100m estimate was a bit low. To compete among the larger amusement parks in the US, of which this would admittedly be on the smaller end of that spectrum (not saying that as an insult), Bell's is going to need at least 5 major roller coasters. Frontier City is half the size and they have 5 coasters so Bell's needs to equal that just as a starting point. They, of course, have the Zingo which according to articles I found from a few years back put the cost at $5m to bring that back up - and then they have the Wildcat which really doesn't register as a major coaster. Heck - Knott's Berry Farm is only 57 acres and they have 9 coasters. It's really starting to look closer to $250m or more since they can easily have $50-$100m in just coasters. Should be interesting to watch where it goes from here.

^LOL. Why are they competing with all the big parks in the US? Seems like a big assumption that they are trying to be a national draw right off the bat. Look up Cliff's Amusement Park in Albuquerque as a great example of a local amusement park with a small selection of rides and a star wooden roller coaster. https://rcdb.com/4661.htm There are plenty of other examples.

Next year there is a new theme park opening up in Iowa that is relatively small, but will be extensively themed and is owned by an existing water park just down the road. They aren't trying to compete nationally either.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E51VLv6ZHs&ab_channel=ParkPros

Speaking of Iowa, Adventureland in Des Moines is exactly the kind of park that I hope Bell's will grow into. For a small park they have some great roller coasters and an amazing water park.

When you say they need "5 major roller coasters" and start talking about FC, I have to laugh. Frontier City's coasters are a joke to anyone except coaster enthusiasts who appreciate their odd history. Silver Bullet is part of Anton Schwartzkopf's legacy, and I love it, but it's nothing to write home about especially by today's standards. The wildcat is actually a "relocated" wooden coaster from Missouri, but when they rebuilt it they didn't have room for the turnaround and second half, so the ride is an pathetic shadow of it's former self.  The Diamondback is actually a pretty fun classic Arrow shuttle coaster, and one of the last of it's kind left in the world (the exact same coaster model used to be in many parks). None of those rides would be considered a star attraction at basically any other park in the US, even most of the small parks. The state of Oklahoma is absolutely starved for a good roller coaster like Zingo.

It's true that they'll need tens of millions of capital to build what they are talking about, but it's not true that they'll need 100's of millions of front to get started. I think it would be smart to start with the kiddie section and the water park and phase the rest in over a period of 5 to 10 years. Start by targeting the Tulsa metro, then NE OK, then expand from there as the park grows.

When we talk about investment and land size, there's so much more in the details than people realize. Disney's Magic Kingdom gets 20 million visitors per year with just a few "small" roller coasters and an area of just 107 acres. Silver Dollar City gets a bit over 2 million guests per year and is still the main economic engine of the Branson area. I don't know what numbers FC is putting up these days, but it's probably just under a million per year. At one point it was half a million per year before the original Six Flags bankruptcy.

I can't imagine my family driving that far for Bells. I mean, 21st and Yale was already a hump. 251st st and east Jesus interests me as much as proctology exam performed by rotor-outer.

Heck I have always wanted to do a theme park and Rollercoasters are down on my list of attractions. I personally don't like them lol, but know that others do so would try to have one or two.  I mostly like the rides that are like a magical, story/themed adventure, small rollercoaster feel perhaps.  Then there are the new rides today like some of the Harry Potter ones at Universal that are basically a giant robotic arm on a track that "swoops and throws you around" through a storyline.  I could barely handle the Avitar Ride at Disney and it doesn't even really go anywhere! Rode it once, then the next time I went, got in line and just before we had to get in the contraption, my nerves got the best of me and I had to slink out and leave the group lol.  (I can barely handle swings at a playground so it takes some work to get me on most rides lol) But, that kind of themed attraction/ride is what I really like and well done, those can have longer wait times with more people wanting to get on than the standard rollercoasters.

They're not directly competing with all the big parks but I think they are against FC and SDC. I doubt anyone is going to load the family truckster up to drive across country to Tulsa for an amusement park but within a 200 mile or so range probably so - and probably probably probably so from OKC. I know they're going to have to build up and I don't expect a dozen coasters from the get-go but I'm surprised they didn't say "we're rebuilding Zingo and then adding a new sister roller coaster" as an opener. Surely a new large attraction, like what they were trying to build at the Expo location, has got to happen initially. At least here they aren't going to get the local neighbors wahwahwahing about noise from a coaster.

And I agree with everything you're saying but I still think the initial budget is going to have to be north of $100m. Since we know they've got $4m in land and at least $5m just in the Zingo and I can't imagine a 25-acre water park can be had for less than $50m. Heck - a wave pool is going to set them back $20m by itself if not more. Just revitalizing the old Bell's rides isn't going to be cheap since they weren't in the best of shape when they closed 15 years ago.

Also - Disney's Magic Kingdom is a funny point - it has 4 decent coasters with a 5th opening soon (TRON) and honestly Slinky Dog Dash is probably on the cusp. Plus it's Disney so they could open a 100-acre park in the desert with no rides no water and no bathrooms and still draw 20m people a year.  ;D

Just rebuilding the old Bell's with a water park and an "event center" sounds pretty boring to me. Guess we'll have to see if anything gets built at all since the press conference didn't even have any initial plans which was surprising and also not surprising.

I would totally buy season tickets to a Decopolis Amusement Park. Maybe you should call Robby Bell up.

The OKANA resort that was recently announced next to the First Americans Museum in OKC will have a Crystal Lagoon.  It is being developed by the Chickasaw's.  If you look at their website they list OKC under real estate projects as well as Tulsa.  I wonder if this could possibly be tied to the Bell's water park?  And are the Cherokee's potentially involved?

https://www.crystal-lagoons.com/real-estate-projects/ (https://www.crystal-lagoons.com/real-estate-projects/)

(https://gray-kwch-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/Et4leraBqBIKnOcml4QjZGraAP8=/1200x675/smart/filters:quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/LQSIF57WYRDFVECOCDHX7KNQAY.jpg)

There is also one planned for Derby, KS outside Wichita

https://www.kwch.com/2021/10/27/derby-city-council-expands-star-bond-district-crystal-lagoons/ (https://www.kwch.com/2021/10/27/derby-city-council-expands-star-bond-district-crystal-lagoons/)

One of the main reasons I think they went that far out east is so they don't have the NIMBY issues they had with their original location. Zingo could not operate after either 9 or 10 PM unless it was during the fair.

Broken Arrow is in the Muscogee Nation, so I doubt it. It could be the Muscogee Nation or one of the Muscogee tribal towns.

I don't think it would be tied to Bell's. Knowing them, they'll start with something much smaller.

The Creek nation still has plenty of big ambitions. They own a large parcel across from Riverspirit where the mobile home park used to be. They cleared the mobile homes out suddenly years ago and the rumor, if I recall correctly, was that they wanted to build some kind of entertainment/lifestyle center with shopping and amusements possibly including a water park. This is exactly the kind of thing that would fit into their wheelhouse, but the location isn't exactly perfect. They still need to finish out the resort area of riverspirit where they have empty lawn space, IMO.

This probably deserves it's own thread. I am interested to know how serious they are about listing Tulsa as an active project.

It's not like they even went that far out there. It's still well within the metro. There aren't many large parcels available, let alone parcels with utility availability and appropriate usage restrictions to build a theme park on near the city.

I know people that drive across the metro just to eat at a particular restaurant. I drive from Sapulpa to the edge of BA every day for work. I don't think that there are many who will be put off by driving 20 minutes to go to an amusement park for the day.

I haven't left midtown since my passport expired.  ;D

When I've been back the only reason I go out to SE Tulsa is to visit family in Memorial Park Cemetery, Floral Haven, a few living friends near Meadow Brook CC, and family that lives near 151st and Sheridan.

I keep forgetting that Coweta is almost a suburb of Broken Arrow, since I just don't need to go out that far.

Having lived in the Phoenix metro area for several years, I'm used to making a drive to see friends, go eat at a favorite place, and my work commute is 37 miles one way. It's worth it, the pay is decent the benefits are good, and right now working third shift, 8PM to 4:30AM I don't see rush hour traffic and a recently built freeway makes it a breeze.

https://goo.gl/maps/7w56kmYG2V6hNuSj8 (https://goo.gl/maps/7w56kmYG2V6hNuSj8)

Remember to get all your travel vaccinations up to date if you renew your passport.   ;D

Remember to check traffic on Memorial or use 75 or Peoria/Elm depending on the time of day.


I think the last time I went through Coweta was on the way to Wagoner to see the Big Boy steam locomotive a few years ago.


For the most part, I can choose my times to drive since I retired.  The pay isn't so good but I'll be OK.  Medicare Supplements (G & D) are expensive.  Advantage plans have some disadvantages they conveniently omit on the TV ads.

It only took one trip going south on Memorial from the Creek to make me realize HWY 75 was a better option since I stay downtown when I visit.

Well that didn't take long.  ::)


https://www.krmg.com/news/some-residents-raise-concerns-over-return-bells-amusement-park/GZ3H66ZTLBBS5F5E3B5PYX5H7Q/ (https://www.krmg.com/news/some-residents-raise-concerns-over-return-bells-amusement-park/GZ3H66ZTLBBS5F5E3B5PYX5H7Q/)

Yeah, I mean that is bound to happen no matter where it was built. As long as they set the actual rides several hundred feet south of the road, there shouldn't be a big noise or light issue. The parking lot will take up most of the frontage I'd assume. They can plant trees and place buildings strategically. They could use the indoor attractions to buffer the neighborhood as well.

Traffic will of course be the sticking point. If they use the creek turnpike entrance and place a signalized intersection that turns into the Bell's property there, that should work really well. Might cause a backup onto the turnpike at times though...

The big question is: does Bell's have the acumen to navigate these issues? They did such a poor job of defending themselves against the fair board when they were being kicked out, and in so many other fiasco's they self-created over the past 15 years in their attempts to get restarted. I hope they have someone else taking the lead on all this. I really think if just about anyone else had been running Bell's back in 2006, they would have raised a huge stink and pinned the fair board into making a deal to let Bell's stay. I wonder what Robby has learned about navigating local politics in 15 years.

Well we can hope that he has a plan that takes noise into consideration with the homes in the area, being able to keep a lot of the mature trees that are there can probably help with some noise and light pollution.

The traffic issue concern is easy to understand, especially since the traffic would be more of a steady stream, but would also include a large volume in the morning and evenings during the operating season. An exit/entrance for the Creek would be a great help to lessen surface street traffic.

I seem to remember from many yeas ago Six Flags Over Texas had it's own exit off of what was then the D/FW Turnpike (I-30) that was on the west side of the park that was also shared with the original ballpark for the Rangers. IIRC Texas Highway 360 only ran from the GM plant to the turnpike, and it was more of a parkway than highway back in the 70's.

South Tulsans: "Please keep expanding our roads but don't dare add anything that might generate traffic."

Just stop already. You live in sprawl, car traffic is the definition of sprawl.

Most of the newer developments are similar density as mid-town at 5 or more houses per acre.  Some distance measurements on Google Maps and counting houses will show that.  Do you believe that all single family dwellings are sprawl?  I don't want to live in an apartment, tenement, row house or even a duplex.  Sharing walls with others in college dorms and Navy housing was more than enough for me.

A useable public transit system could help alleviate the car situation.  I admit my place, at approximately 1 acre, is sprawl.  My parents bought it in 1971 because they wanted some elbow room and a fenced in back yard big enough for some German Shepherd dogs.  Newer developments in the area are more like new population centers.  At one house per acre and 2 cars per house, there will be probably 1280 cars per square mile. Bump that to 5 houses per acre and the cars go to 6400 cars per square mile.  No wonder the streets are crowded.  Apartment complexes like the one just south of 121st  & Memorial make that even worse.  Zoning out here should have been limited to no more than one house per acre.  Memorial is probably hopeless, even with a good public transit system.  No one is going to hop a bus or trolley to go grocery shopping for several day's worth of stuff.

There's a new article from the Tulsa World on the future Bell's park here - https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/will-bells-be-different-in-broken-arrow-family-says-god-luck-are-on-their-side/article_e3ce83f6-56de-11ec-8c0a-078a2bcf9fef.html

In it the TW mention the owner of the property is a 1031 Exchange in California (named Coast 1031 Exchange Inc) so someone is using the new Bell's property as a tax deferment where someone who had just sold $4m worth of property needed to buy another $4m worth of property quickly to avoid capital gains taxes. A quick google found the company named Coast 1031 Exchange Inc which is pretty much just an intermediary that facilitates this tax shelter - https://www.coast1031.com/. It also means that the owner of the property really doesn't have a horse in this race - they just needed to find a property equal to or greater in value to the one they sold and they had a limited time to do it so it's doubtful they are an investor of any sort in Bell's. In the article Robby Bell won't mention names of the property owners and on the subject of where they're getting the money for the new park “We have financing. Let’s just put it like that,”. Guess we'll see where this is all going.

Given Robby Bell’s history of periodic "announcements" of a return of Bell's, I wouldn’t get my hopes up on this project until something is actually being built.

There's more to it. I have been led to believe that his backers own other properties and are using Bell's to spread out their investments. I'm not sure why they are hiding behind a third party and keeping everything so hush-hush, but maybe they are waiting to see how Bell's actually performs before tying their names to it.

Robby isn't good at any of this, but obviously they got the money from somewhere, so there's a plan in motion. It concerns me that after 15 years he still hasn't learned much about professionalism or local politics/public relations. He should be reaching out to the neighborhood with specific plans or at least a solid concept that addresses their concerns. He should be more open about what he is actually building and when.

That Tulsa World piece isn't unfair, but it does him no favors and he clearly gave them nothing to work with. This is a guy who had to work a crappy job at a school after loosing the original Bell's, so that tells everyone how shaky the whole thing is.

I am still led to understand that he is not building everything at once, but his public statements at the media event make it sound like he's building this huge complex all at once. I think there's going to be a lot more disappointment and ridicule when the first "phase" opens and it's just a few kiddie rides off a gravel parking lot. Basically Schwick's all over again...

I think there's a good chance the backers of this project eventually take it over and push Robby out. He's skating on thin ice for sure.

Here's what I don't get - why don't these backers just build an amusement park themselves and cut the Bells out of the equation now? What does Bell's actually have at this point? A bunch of old and outdated rides that are worn out and need major money to be made whole again and a name that really only plays to people over 30 at the youngest? I can't even find they own the trademark to Bell's. Why not just register the trademark (or buy it if Robbie actually owns it - I just couldn't find any record of it at uspto but there are a lot of Bells-named things)? Or just call it something else? I don't understand why any partner with money needs the Bell's portion of this unless there's some blackmail pics or something. Plus - if these backers are ready to put up 10s or 100s or millions - why let Robby out there talk silly and kneecap the whole thing? Heck - no matter what Robby says at this point he has 15 years of crying wolf that's turned everyone off to anything he says.

Bell's has a strong brand. That was the point of "selling tshirts" a few years ago. They were trying to prove that people still remember and miss Bell's. Most of the other "announcements" were just teasers basically just saying that they were still working towards the dream of reopening the park. The only major misstep was the Schwick's debacle where he announced Bell's being "back" and tried to crowdfund a bunch of stuff that he simply didn't have the ability to setup. To be fair, he did setup and operate a few rides for at least one summer, so Bell's was sort of "back" for a bit. He never got the money from crowdfunding that he thought he would get, nor did the crowds ever really show up for the three small kids rides and the inflatable slide, so he probably lost money by the end of that little episode.

As for the motivations of the investors, there aren't a lot of opportunities to invest in a new amusement park, and Robby and his family have decades of experience for what it's worth. The city is excited for the opportunity. All he needs is an ounce of competence and this business will print money. It's probably true that some of it is them simply moving money around for tax purposes, but I think they see some potential here for this to turn into something like Cliff's in New Mexico or OWA or something small and profitable like that. Heck, Kemah Boardwalk down in south Houston is amazingly popular with only a small handful of rides and a compact wooden coaster. Of course, the dozen popular restaurants and an aquarium help with that.

I don't think they really have any assets of value that I know of. Maybe a couple kiddie rides unless Schwick's kept them after he got kicked out. I know he left behind a ton of stuff at Schwick's. Heck, there's a few pieces still rotting out in the gunboat district in one of the random empty lots he dumped stuff on. He will probably buy a bunch of stuff off the secondary market. You too can start an amusement park with less than a million dollars if you are selective:
http://www.italintl.com/used_list.php
https://rides4u.com/equipment/used

No need to buy old used stuff, you can get some really nice new stuff from China for really cheap. I was actually surprised at how inexpensive and nice looking a lot of the stuff is you can get from China, and get it customized with unique designs, steampunk, ocean, fairytale, classic, country western, etc.  

And if there are investors wanting to fund a theme park, I could design and run one that would blow you away for a fraction of the cost.  I have been interested in building a big DECOPOLIS someday and have been a big student of Disney for ages, soaking up every detail, working at Disney, going every year, reading books, classes, manuals and biographies, learning everything from what color the sidewalks should be and why, to the scale of the buildings, how to lead people through the parks, storytelling, safety, keeping everything spotless and perfect, what makes the money, etc.  And I am an artist, and have begun to learn a bit about running a business.

Want to be careful what I say, but when the news came out that he was building Bells, met with him at the site through a mutual friend that is working with them to see if there might be a way to collaborate to some degree or another. Suffice it to say, yea, our ideas and the way we were thinking were WORLDS apart.  I tried to be supportive, but at the same time didn't want to give away the knowledge and talent I have accumulated over the decades. I mentioned some points to try and help and he was like "Thats a great idea, never thought of that, I think we need to invite you to our next meeting." Then he would say something about one of his ideas and I would do a mental "face palm".  There are good, talented people around him trying to get him to move towards the way I would do things (and they told me they were trying)... but from what I could tell at that point, WAY too big a chasm to get him anywhere near where I would think things need to go for me and DECOPOLIS to be involved.

One thing I noticed is that his thoughts at the time were to be only open for part of the year, centered around getting lots of teens into the park and have a bunch of teens working the park during summer and spring break etc.  And then be closed for several months of the year. And 2 of my thoughts were... 1. All those people wanting to support Bells are those now middle age folk "nostalgia" and aren't going to be thrilled to be in a place mostly populated by teenagers.  2. Believe it or not, did you know approximately 70% of the people who go to Disney World are adults without kids? Which means the approximately other 30% are adults/families... with kids.  AND, most of the kids that are there are NOT teenagers. So again, his concept audience and mine were worlds apart. Even at DECOPOLIS, teens don't buy much (except for the nerds that love our nerdy, storytelling, rocks and fossils, Harry Potter & Star Wars stuff lol) Its mostly adults (who are kids at heart) and the little kids and those buying for the little kids including grandparents.

  You should try to cater to as many age demographics as possible IMHO, including teens if you can but they are a tricky audience more interested in their phones and clothes/shoes, but even then they tend to "run off" the other customers because others don't like to be in an environment that teens would be super interested in, nor do they enjoy  being in a place populated mostly by teens (especially if the teens are in the majority and unsupervised lol). And if you do have a lot of teens you have to "manage" the environment in a way that enables the adults and little kids to feel comfortable and have things to enjoy as well. I guarantee you one thing I would do would be to put in place a system whereby everyone had to have an ID to enter or be accompanied by an adult with an ID. If you cause any trouble, you are out and would not be able to enter again for X number of years.

Another thing was mention of rides being up close to 71st. And I said "Actually I would put parking with lots of trees around/in it here to act as a buffer to the neighbors on that side, and you don't want your guests looking out across a busy street 71st at ugly suburban strip malls, a Wal-Mart, etc. disrupts the illusion of them being in a magical, wonderful place apart from the rest of the world." (This was me catering to them saying they did want to create more of a "theme" park than the old Bells was) And, saying that this is the kind of thing they would do would IMHO helped with some of the neighbors concerns.

Anywhoo, we had VERY different ideas on what to do, how to do it, and who the main audiences should be. It may very well work for him, but it was just not the direction I would want to go.

But, he is the one getting millions of dollars and I am not so.... I can't talk too much lol.

I totally get it. It's kind of unfair that they get to be in the amusement park game despite having absolutely no relatable skills, or even business skills in general.

I also have big dreams of getting into the business someday. I've been a member of the American Coaster Enthusiasts for almost two decades now (since I was a kid), and am a licensed engineer going for an MBA. Maybe we should team up Artist - your creativity and guest interaction skills and my engineering and business degrees.

Bell's was a big part of why I came to love roller coasters, so I have big hopes that something will work out, but I know by now not to get my hopes up.

Just saw a Tulsa World mention that there's going to be a community meeting this evening regarding Bell's. No officials present that I know of, so it will be mostly bitching/organizing by the local home owners who are imagining the worst. Once again, if Bell's was smart they'd have already addressed these concerns and would even be attending the meeting if invited. They don't have any political savvy at all and seem to be playing the legal route here. They are technically within their rights to develop the site as an amusement park, and although a few lawsuits might fly, they should be able to fend them off pretty easily just based on zoning and urban planning grounds. The neighborhood is fighting a boogeyman at this point since no one really knows what Bell's is actually building. It puts the city in a crappy position because they want to welcome Bell's and generate "tourist" revenue, but also have a duty to do the best they can by their residents. If Bell's is not careful, this will sour their relationship with the city that has so far been trying to help them along to some degree. Bell's absolutely should be at least hiring a spokesperson to do the talking for them.

It failed once in Tulsa, why would we expect it to work in BA?

Hope I'm wrong.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/community-members-turn-out-to-oppose-bells-amusement-park-development-in-broken-arrow/article_2dc7a2e0-5f4e-11ec-9b93-e75e3588c65e.html

The Tulsa World dropped its paywall this week, so you have until Dec. 26 to read it for free.

The fact that they didn't allow Tulsa World into the meeting is very suspect. Lost a lot of credibility there. They should be inviting the media in with open arms to air their grievances so they are heard as loud as possible. Now they just seem like dumb grouches that don't want to actually communicate, just complain. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Here's another article from a news agency that was actually allowed in: https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/community-meeting-discussing-concerns-on-bells-proposed-development-in-broken-arrow-location

To me it still sounds like they are arguing against their own imaginations. Bell's has not submitted plans, so the allusions to "Las Vegas" and "neon lights" are dumb. Also, LOL at painting the area like a peaceful quiet retirement area when it is on one of the busiest roads in BA and right next to the highway with a major commercial area. They all acknowledge that it's a developing commercial area, they are just specifically against an amusement park because they imagine a roller coaster right outside their window. In reality, the roller coasters would be farther back on the property if they ever get built. As far as traffic goes, while there may be some days with heavy traffic, it's going to be that way anyway and if a Costco or something like that gets built there instead it's the same difference.

Bell's is still dumb for not addressing these concerns directly by now.

Apparently the torches and pitchforks opposing Bell's came out at the Broken Arrow city council meeting last night. Everything from "more crime! lower property values!!! less taxes for the city!!!! think of the kids!!!" So this is going well.

article - https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/this-is-not-the-place-opponents-to-bells-amusement-park-proposal-speak-at-city-council/article_d6ab21bc-7870-11ec-85fd-1360611e9e9f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

TW paywall but open it in an incognito window to bypass that.

Yeah, it's a lot of really vague fears and overblown nonsense, but Bell's isn't helping the situation at all by not responding and clarifying their plans and intentions.

Leave it to the BA boomers to make everything about crime and traffic despite living next to commercial districts and the damn highway. Most of their statistics that they are pointing to are ridiculous and don't take into account the difference between crime that takes place in the parking lot of various amusement parks vs the surrounding neighborhoods. I have a hard time believing that Silver Dollar City makes the area around it more crime-ridden as they implied, but I'm sure they have police come to the park all the time to respond to unruly guests and vehicle break ins.

If Bell's came out with a preliminary plan showing how noise/traffic/etc was being considered, even if nothing was remotely final, that would help. Robby Bell was physically at the meeting, but it sounds like he didn't say anything? Not sure what he thinks he is doing. Again, it doesn't sound like he has learned anything in 15 years.

Real plans take actual planners and money. I'm guessing Robbie has none of that.

It's starting to look more and more like the money behind the land isn't the silent partner but just someone using it for a tax shelter like we already talked about. I'm starting to wonder if there is an actual silent partner or this has all just been the Bells trying to act like they have something in the works to draw a partner in. Seems if there was some actual money behind it then whoever controls that money would be taking steps to protect their potential investment like, you know, hiring a professional management company to keep all the ducks in a row. But, again, if someone with money wanted to blow it on an amusement park it would be cheaper and easier to just build one from scratch without Bells being involved. Or, heck, buy the IP and whatever rides aren't total trash from the Bells.

I was talking with a friend the other day about this, and we had some interesting thoughts on it. We were talking about the financial backing and whether it made sense or not and we both agreed that it just doesn't pencil out to try and resurrect rides and equipment that has been sitting for almost twenty years and the fact that the newest of the rides were almost thirty years old and older before they were dismantled. My point was the cost of inspecting, repairing and cost of parts if they can be found would be way more than just building new rides.

We talked about the NIMBY issues and think that quite a few are blown out of proportion, but are concerns.

The biggest thing that we agreed on was the history that Bell's has. It's got the name recognition of course but it also has the history of having issues with the county over tax issues, lease payments, and the unholy alliance between the count and Murphy Bros. The park ever since the early 80's was always looking run down and it seemed they did just enough maintenance to keep things going.

We mainly agreed good luck to Bell's but serious doubts that it will happen. It's been 16 years so far, let it go.

I think the partner's hand will be forced before long. I agree that most entities with this kind of money to throw around would choose better management, and that may still be the case. I think Robby Bell is on thin ice and like I've been saying he should have taken better steps all along.

I do think they have solid financial backing though. I have been told through the grapevine that their partner is someone who operates various other properties, but is not a major business entity. Think smaller attractions. They supposedly found the needle in the haystack of partners to work with that has just enough money to make it work without being so large that they are tied up in other things or would pass over the Bell family for obvious reasons. Still, Robby has his work cut out to keep them on the line if things don't start moving soon in a positive direction. I'm sure it takes time to work out the details with the city and plans, but a simple statement would go a long way. Like we've been saying, they could hire a PR firm to do it for them since they are obviously incapable.

I assume they are still negotiating traffic concerns. That is probably their biggest issue and will take awhile to sort out, but we should see something happen by spring. I'm sure the city is pushing things along on their end since they are feeling the heat at both ends. They want to calm citizen concerns and they've also kind of stamped their name on this project after that presser. They need this to move out of the shadows ASAP.

People have told me they've already seen Robby out there cleaning up the property, lol. He always was a work horse - for simple projects at least.

Update: https://basentinel.town.news/g/broken-arrow-ok/n/65448/market-study-likely-bells-property-amusement-park-not-guaranteed

The owner's of Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk is the entity behind all this. They are an awesome group that should know what they are doing. It sounds like they are taking control of the project out of Robby's hands since he has communicated so poorly and gotten all the neighbors mad.

Wouldn't surprise me if they build a large outdoor mall/retail center with a small space for a family amusement park. A shadow of what Bell's was and could be, but at least it would be something. I just want Zingo back. A proper water park would be nice too, but selfishly I won't be too mad if that gets axed because I want to try my hand at building one myself in a few years...  ;)

This is a good sign. I've been to the Santa Cruz Boardwalk and it's the best of that size places that I have visited. Clean and well run, unlike the one at Mission Beach in San Diego.

I just don't have any real faith in Robby Bell.

I'm shocked that everything we predicted in this thread is coming to fruition. No wait - I'm not shocked at all.

Well, to be fair, now that we know the identity of the actual developer it seems much more likely that something great will indeed be developed here and there's a very good chance that some sort of amusements will be involved. Will it truly be Bell's? That's the biggest question. Not sure Robby Bell will get what he wants or anything like he announced last year. I am sure as the project moves forward it is becoming clear that he doesn't bring a lot to the table other than his family name and legacy.

These Santa Cruz guys seem pretty good though. I'm excited to see what they actually decide to do here. Hopefully they do indeed include a Zingo-sized roller coaster somewhere. Our own version of the Santa Cruz boardwalk, or Kemah Boardwalk down in south Houston.

True. One of the thread predictions has been the actual money will step forward to protect it's interests and now that's happening. I would think their best bet is buying the Bell's name and maybe the Zingo and starting fresh from there. Or do nothing and just use the tax shelter.

From reading the article on SnoozeOn6, it sounds like Santa Cruz told Robby to sit down and be quiet while the adults take care of business. Seems that Santa Cruz is doing things the right way to try and develop a proper plan and working with they city to try and keep everyone happy.

As much as everyone, including myself, have fond memories of Bell's, I think most are wise enough to remember the down hill slide it went through.

As foretold by the prophets . . . Bells is not going to be built in South BA.

https://www.fox23.com/news/bells-amusement-park-not-reopening-in-south-ba-city-manager-says/article_a259da3e-eebc-11ed-af86-17e85569fc1c.html

Yup, Robby/the Bell family screwed it up again. This time they literally had it all in their hands and they still managed to fumble on the 1 yard line. No excuses for them any more. This was their last real shot and they blew it.

I mean, the Santa Cruz people were a legit outfit to work with. The site was fine despite a few neighbors that are going to complain about anything being built there (won't they be surprised when it inevitably gets turned into a Costco or something and the traffic REALLY picks up). There were challenges to deal with for sure, but this was their only real chance. I knew it looked bad when Robby screwed up that press event and way overpromised everything with no real plan, but I figured the Santa Cruz people would still push something out with or without him.

With interest rates rising and other macro economic issues making large investments more difficult, who knows if Tulsa will ever see a real amusement park again. It's always been a difficult business to get into, and you have to have a ton of capital to work with and a nimble business plan to navigate the ups and downs of the market. I still think Tulsa is entertainment starved however, and we need a real park. The former Big Splash is getting some nice investment to rehabilitate it, but it still has the same old slides and pools and is much too small.

Prophets? No, I prefer to think jaded, jaundiced, skeptical, cynical, doubter or realist.

Sad to see this fall apart, but I think anyone that tries to attach the Bell family to a project are going to have their hands full.

I also think even if the market was better, amusement parks are kind of a tough sell these days unless you are upgrading and existing one.

Frontier City, love it or hate it has an interesting history and was almost dismantled in the early 80's. From Wiki their oldest ride was built in 1986.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_City)

It was never going to happen - it was always just a 1031 Exchange tax dodge. Made for some good forum fodder but nothing else.

I've heard rumblings about a new amusement park / resort up near grand lake and a lot of potential options around Dallas. Though I think they are something more akin to Okana than Frontier City.

Around 100 years ago trolley parks were built by trolley companies to generate weekend riders on the trolley.  Many evolved into amusement parks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_park