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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: shavethewhales on March 02, 2021, 02:35:48 pm



Title: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on March 02, 2021, 02:35:48 pm
The Wyndham hotel near 169 and 41st went under during covid. Today as I walked past I saw a number of cars in the parking lot and a zoning hearing sign out front stating that on March 17th TMAPC will have a public hearing about switching from CO to CO-12 zoning. I have been looking through the TMAPC zoning and can't find the difference between CO and CO-12. http://www.tmapc.org/Documents/Tulsa%20County%20Zoning%20Code%20May%202018.pdf

In the table on page 8-2, item 12 is 'Eating places other than drive-ins", so maybe someone is trying to get the restaurant back open?

The page on the assessor's site doesn't say that the property has changed hands. It still shows Ruffin Hotel as the owner.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: SXSW on March 03, 2021, 09:18:58 am
I remember when that was a Sheraton.  I havenít been by, itís just sitting empty? 


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: Oil Capital on March 03, 2021, 10:13:25 am
I remember when that was a Sheraton.  I havenít been by, itís just sitting empty? 

and wasn't it a Marriott before that?  (originally built as a Marriott, IIRC)


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: Vision 2025 on March 03, 2021, 01:53:26 pm
and wasn't it a Marriott before that?  (originally built as a Marriott, IIRC)
Yes, that was the original flag.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on March 03, 2021, 03:33:22 pm
I remember when that was a Sheraton.  I havenít been by, itís just sitting empty? 

Yes, it's been empty since last spring I believe. I don't think it was doing that great even before the pandemic.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: swake on March 03, 2021, 04:00:42 pm
Yes, it's been empty since last spring I believe. I don't think it was doing that great even before the pandemic.

I saw an ad before they closed where they had added some sort of an indoor water park as the draw for the hotel. That wasn't going to be popular during the pandemic.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 04, 2021, 02:20:05 am
IIRC it started out as a Sheraton when it was built back in the early 80's at the same time that the industrial area around 51st & 129th E Ave started to become an area for corporate HQ's and offices like Dowell Schlumberge, Hilti, State Farm and others. It was really an up class hotel in the fact that the top two floors were guest access suites only. I think it was built as a replacement for the Sheraton Skyline that was by Bishop Kelly. It was built about the same time that Marriot built the hotel at Kensington at 71st and Lewis which was around 1983.

I believe that after it was a Sheraton it became a Marriot and the Marriot at Kensington became a Sheraton in the 90's. That was about the time that the area around 41st & Garnett started to change, and it really wasn't the area for a high end hotel. That location just never really became what it could be. So much of it relied on the oil boom and got killed by the bust times. It also relied on the office building area near 41st and Mingo when the likes of AT&T had offices there as well as a lot of other major corporations before they all pulled out and they became call centers.

https://tulsaworld.com/archive/sheraton-kensington-to-become-marriott/article_888ad22b-4a42-5e75-8e23-573c60919c23.html


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: SXSW on March 04, 2021, 09:51:12 am
IIRC it started out as a Sheraton when it was built back in the early 80's at the same time that the industrial area around 51st & 129th E Ave started to become an area for corporate HQ's and offices like Dowell Schlumberge, Hilti, State Farm and others. It was really an up class hotel in the fact that the top two floors were guest access suites only. I think it was built as a replacement for the Sheraton Skyline that was by Bishop Kelly. It was built about the same time that Marriot built the hotel at Kensington at 71st and Lewis which was around 1983.

I believe that after it was a Sheraton it became a Marriot and the Marriot at Kensington became a Sheraton in the 90's. That was about the time that the area around 41st & Garnett started to change, and it really wasn't the area for a high end hotel. That location just never really became what it could be. So much of it relied on the oil boom and got killed by the bust times. It also relied on the office building area near 41st and Mingo when the likes of AT&T had offices there as well as a lot of other major corporations before they all pulled out and they became call centers.

https://tulsaworld.com/archive/sheraton-kensington-to-become-marriott/article_888ad22b-4a42-5e75-8e23-573c60919c23.html

There is still a large corporate presence in that area, QuikTrip HQ is nearby for instance.  But the area directly around the hotel has gone downhill.  Just like downtown and areas around it have improved the east side east of 169 has deteriorated.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: Oil Capital on March 04, 2021, 10:36:56 am
IIRC it started out as a Sheraton when it was built back in the early 80's at the same time that the industrial area around 51st & 129th E Ave started to become an area for corporate HQ's and offices like Dowell Schlumberge, Hilti, State Farm and others. It was really an up class hotel in the fact that the top two floors were guest access suites only. I think it was built as a replacement for the Sheraton Skyline that was by Bishop Kelly. It was built about the same time that Marriot built the hotel at Kensington at 71st and Lewis which was around 1983.

I believe that after it was a Sheraton it became a Marriot and the Marriot at Kensington became a Sheraton in the 90's. That was about the time that the area around 41st & Garnett started to change, and it really wasn't the area for a high end hotel. That location just never really became what it could be. So much of it relied on the oil boom and got killed by the bust times. It also relied on the office building area near 41st and Mingo when the likes of AT&T had offices there as well as a lot of other major corporations before they all pulled out and they became call centers.

https://tulsaworld.com/archive/sheraton-kensington-to-become-marriott/article_888ad22b-4a42-5e75-8e23-573c60919c23.html

You seem to have things exactly backwards (and the article you linked suggests the same).  According to the linked article the Sheraton at Kensington became a Marriott (Marriott Southern Hills) in the 90s.  Not the other way around. 


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on March 04, 2021, 11:08:31 am
Yeah I work in the area and used to office out of that office park at 41st and Mingo. It's a lot of multi tenant small offices all over the place now. Not a lot of big corporate offices except Quicktrip. The hotel is bordered by crappy apartments, a taco truck place, and a run-down Reasor's/retail waste land. At least we got a new taco bell and Panda Express recently.

That's the problem with Tulsa in general, almost every corporate presence is a tiny regional office.

Not sure what they can do with this hotel... could it become apartments?


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 04, 2021, 02:17:52 pm
You seem to have things exactly backwards (and the article you linked suggests the same).  According to the linked article the Sheraton at Kensington became a Marriott (Marriott Southern Hills) in the 90s.  Not the other way around. 

Sorry about that. Yes I remember Kensington going from Sheraton to Marriott. The one on 41st is the one that I thought was Marriott, then Sheraton, then Wyndham.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 04, 2021, 02:36:44 pm
Yeah I work in the area and used to office out of that office park at 41st and Mingo. It's a lot of multi tenant small offices all over the place now. Not a lot of big corporate offices except Quicktrip. The hotel is bordered by crappy apartments, a taco truck place, and a run-down Reasor's/retail waste land. At least we got a new taco bell and Panda Express recently.

That's the problem with Tulsa in general, almost every corporate presence is a tiny regional office.

Not sure what they can do with this hotel... could it become apartments?

When one of my brothers went to work at AT&T in 1981, the office was in the buildings to the north and east of 41st and Mingo. I seem to remember IBM had offices there as well. Yeah that was back when the area around the Wyndham was pretty nice. Used to go to Hemi's Pizza and a place I think called Bullwinkle's that was in the shopping center where that QT is on the NW corner of 41st and Garnett. I dated a girl for a while that lived in the apartments that are now Bristol Park and she worked at a bank that was across the street where Garmin is. This was back in the 80's.

It seems like it was the mid to late 90's when that area around 41st & Garnett started to slide.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: TulsaBeMore on March 07, 2021, 12:17:20 am
Sorry about that. Yes I remember Kensington going from Sheraton to Marriott. The one on 41st is the one that I thought was Marriott, then Sheraton, then Wyndham.

You are right.  Kensington was a Sheraton and the Garnett was a Marriott when the flags flipped.  Kensington became the Marriott and Garnett became a Sheraton.  Then even Sheraton dropped it and it became a Wyndham.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on March 17, 2021, 01:16:38 pm
So it appears that this is going to become some kind of Veteran's home/retirement home. The applicant has apparently also purchased the old Crowne Plaza across form ORU. The application for the former Wyndham has been pushed to the next meeting because the owner of the crappy strip mall across the street apparently has some things to say about it? However, I assume the Crowne Plaza application is similar to what he has planned here. http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/CO-10.pdf

As I got my lunch today at the Taco Truck, the parking lot of the former Wyndham was full and the fire alarms went off at one point. Looks like they have already started the renovations in full without even getting the approvals first.


Hmmm, reading down to the bottom of the Crowne Plaza application, both ORU and Victory have concerns about that project and are also asking for a continuance. It sounds like the developer is telling the city one thing and the neighbors something else. The property use sounds pretty banal to me. Who really cares about another retirement home? Not sure why the church or university would be suspicious, but obviously there's something going on here.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 17, 2021, 03:41:25 pm
So it appears that this is going to become some kind of Veteran's home/retirement home. The applicant has apparently also purchased the old Crowne Plaza across form ORU. The application for the former Wyndham has been pushed to the next meeting because the owner of the crappy strip mall across the street apparently has some things to say about it? However, I assume the Crowne Plaza application is similar to what he has planned here. http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/CO-10.pdf

As I got my lunch today at the Taco Truck, the parking lot of the former Wyndham was full and the fire alarms went off at one point. Looks like they have already started the renovations in full without even getting the approvals first.


Hmmm, reading down to the bottom of the Crowne Plaza application, both ORU and Victory have concerns about that project and are also asking for a continuance. It sounds like the developer is telling the city one thing and the neighbors something else. The property use sounds pretty banal to me. Who really cares about another retirement home? Not sure why the church or university would be suspicious, but obviously there's something going on here.

The Crowne Plaza across from ORU was originally owned and built by ORU in 1982 I believe, and IIRC what is now Victory was originally built as the ORU School of Dentistry. The university owned most of the land west of Lewis and north of 81st and they also owned what are now Riverpark and Riverchase apartments that are on Wheeling. That was student housing. I worked for a paint store that sold them paint to redo one of the complexes in 1981, and I worked for Finger Furniture Rental that set up the apartments for students back in 1984 and 1985.

In the link below you are looking at the entrance to Riverchase Apartments. The reason there are three driveways, is there was a guard shack with gate controlled entrances for both complexes. The far right driveway was for oversized vehicles, the middle is where the guards checked for parking ID and for the complex on the east side they checked by license plates. Both complexes had 6 or 8 foot high chain link fencing around them with barbed wire on the top.

https://goo.gl/maps/K1M6UhMtFoJh1M3GA (https://goo.gl/maps/K1M6UhMtFoJh1M3GA)

Quote
The school of dentistry at Oral Roberts University will be phased out over the next year, it was announced Friday night by Dr. James Winslow, vice president of student affairs.

Seniors in the Michael Cardone Sr. School of Dentistry will be allowed to complete their final year, but the program for all other students -- sophomores and juniors -- will be discontinued, Winslow said.

"The university intends to make every effort to assist sophomores and juniors to transfer to accredited dental schools," he said.

"Although we are phasing out the dental medicine program," Winslow said, "we plan to add dental residency programs the City of Faith which will fulfill our mission goals."

Winslow described the dental residency as a one-year program in which newly-licensed dentists from other dental schools can earn money, hone their dental skills, and receive training for dental missionary work The program would prepare dentists for work on foreign mission fields.

Winslow linked the closing of the dental school to the failure to realize its goal of sending out dental missionaries which caused a loss of financial support for the school. "Mr. (Oral) Roberts had a vision of graduating dentists who would go principally into foreign missions, at least for a few years, before starting up their own practices in the United States," Winslow said.

https://tulsaworld.com/archive/oru-phasing-out-school-of-dentistry/article_227695b4-402b-5d24-95db-0f26ba8c9f07.html (https://tulsaworld.com/archive/oru-phasing-out-school-of-dentistry/article_227695b4-402b-5d24-95db-0f26ba8c9f07.html)


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: tulsabug on March 21, 2021, 10:29:42 am
So it appears that this is going to become some kind of Veteran's home/retirement home.

41st & 169 sure seems like a terrible place to retire to. Nothing like looking out your window and seeing the gorgeous views of a Sonic, Supercuts, and easily the ugliest Reasor's location. I could see why no hotel could make it there.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on March 21, 2021, 10:32:26 am
 
41st & 169 sure seems like a terrible place to retire to. Nothing like looking out your window and seeing the gorgeous views of a Sonic, Supercuts, and easily the ugliest Reasor's location. I could see why no hotel could make it there.

But there is a really nice taco stand at least, lol!


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: patric on March 21, 2021, 09:09:39 pm
It seems like it was the mid to late 90's when that area around 41st & Garnett started to slide.

Maybe worthy of its own topic, but what happened to that area to bring about its decline?


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 23, 2021, 06:32:24 pm
Maybe worthy of its own topic, but what happened to that area to bring about its decline?

From my observation, there was an increase in drug and property crime, and I think the apartments were accepting gov't assistance tenants. The shopping center started losing tenants, and I don't remember the name of the grocery store before Reasor's moved in, but it was worse than Warehouse Market. The Black Eyed Pea and then Delta Cafe did good there but nothing else seemed to be able to stay.

It reminded me of where I was living near Pine & Memorial by the UAW Hall. That square mile is such a mix of good and bad. I would walk over to the QT by Jorgensen Steel in the evening, but I would never go to the Denny's at 244 & Sheridan at night.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: patric on March 31, 2021, 12:18:59 pm
From my observation, there was an increase in drug and property crime, and I think the apartments were accepting gov't assistance tenants. The shopping center started losing tenants, and I don't remember the name of the grocery store before Reasor's moved in, but it was worse than Warehouse Market. The Black Eyed Pea and then Delta Cafe did good there but nothing else seemed to be able to stay.

It reminded me of where I was living near Pine & Memorial by the UAW Hall. That square mile is such a mix of good and bad. I would walk over to the QT by Jorgensen Steel in the evening, but I would never go to the Denny's at 244 & Sheridan at night.

That Reasors is nasty.

KOTV had all of four sentences about the story on their website
https://www.newson6.com/story/60638cee271a771ee8f97fa8/developer-wants-to-redo-tulsa-hotel-into-apartments-for-veterans
which is pretty typical of the OKC station with the Tulsa bureau.



Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on April 05, 2021, 08:03:58 am
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/temporary-housing-facility-for-the-homeless-in-east-tulsa-draws-complaints-concerns/article_df9ec898-9250-11eb-9d3e-2bdb47df2bcd.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

So it appears it has actually been housing homeless this winter, but the homeless facility is scheduled to close in May. It sounds like it was a successful short term program at least... Makes me wonder more about all those fire alarms I heard going off on several occasions.

Here is the proposal for senior housing on the TMAPC agenda. http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/CO-12.pdf

Not as in-depth as the south location. The owner of the strip mall across the street still wants to comment, but is still out of town apparently.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on April 12, 2021, 09:02:15 am
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/hotels-targeted-for-redevelopment-as-multi-family-senior-living/article_a8e3bd9a-8bed-11eb-b40c-5fcf2fefc171.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

More info finally coming out. Lot of NIMBY comments. No one likes to hear the term "low-income housing" near them. I think the focus on seniors and veterans is great though, as long as they are held to that instead of slowly letting just anyone crash there for cheap. I live near an area of cheap rental properties and know the issues they bring, but there is a need and good ways to approach this. Need to make sure the land lord is screening people effectively and getting longer term commitments rather than letting it be a revolving door.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: LandArchPoke on April 12, 2021, 10:52:51 am
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/hotels-targeted-for-redevelopment-as-multi-family-senior-living/article_a8e3bd9a-8bed-11eb-b40c-5fcf2fefc171.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

More info finally coming out. Lot of NIMBY comments. No one likes to hear the term "low-income housing" near them. I think the focus on seniors and veterans is great though, as long as they are held to that instead of slowly letting just anyone crash there for cheap. I live near an area of cheap rental properties and know the issues they bring, but there is a need and good ways to approach this. Need to make sure the land lord is screening people effectively and getting longer term commitments rather than letting it be a revolving door.

Generally the way these affordable agreements are done is they will be locked into only leasing for these groups for the term of the LURA (land use regulation agreement) which are generally 40-50 years in term length. If it is a senior low income tax credit deal that will be stipulated in the LURA which is what deed restricts the property to the who they can/can not lease. They may be for certain income limits (30% of the area income, 50%, 60%, etc.), veterans, seniors only, etc. It is then up to the property to comply with the recorded LURA, if they don't then the government can revoke the tax credits the property received and/or other penalties. Given the way these work, that is incredibly rare given the complication of these deals.

I think people get up in arms about low income properties but don't fully understand that there is a big difference between something that will be receiving tax credits like these versus a market rate property that has slipped into the 'affordable' range over years of bad management and deferred maintenance. Generally, the low income tax credit properties operate with very little crime and are very well taken care of... it's the bad market rate operators (most of the stuff around 61st and Peoria area for example) that is where you have issues.


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on May 19, 2021, 02:07:20 pm
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/proposed-senior-housing-project-at-old-wyndham-hotel-in-east-tulsa-not-happening-attorney-says/article_ed3b1f58-b8b4-11eb-b1c3-97acbf4eea5f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

The potential deal is now off the table. Still not sure exactly why there was so much resistance to this, but glad the homeless program gets an extension.

Maybe the owner is planning on returning the property to hotel use. Probably a giant OYO...


Title: Re: Former Wyndham near 169 and 41st
Post by: shavethewhales on June 09, 2022, 12:03:43 pm
http://tulsaplanning.org/tmapc/agendas/exhibits/CO-15.pdf

So this is apparently moving forward as a multi-family residential project. The place is pretty overgrown right now, but I spotted a crew working on the side of the building replacing cladding, so that caused me to look it up. They have gutted the interiors already so I'm sure it will be a little better soundproofed than a hotel typically is, but I'm sure these apartments aren't going to be great. The rest of the apartments in the area already aren't great. I mean, everyone needs a place to live, but we know what happens when crappy apartments are jumbled together and there's already a lot of craziness that goes on in this area. At least the building is being used again and we get some added density.