The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: patric on May 10, 2020, 06:39:14 pm



Title: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 10, 2020, 06:39:14 pm
Hey, Elon Musk, There's a "Big F***ing Field" in Tulsa for Tesla's Cybertruck Factory
A cheeky website is begging Tesla to bring its Cybertruck production to Oklahoma.

"Hey Elon, we hear you need a big f*cking field. We've got just the place for your Cybertruck Gigafactory. It's in Tulsa." Pardon the language, but that statement headlines a new website www.bigf***ingfield.com, that apparently exists as a bid to get Tesla to situate its newly announced Cybertruck electric pickup-truck factory in Tusla, Oklahoma. Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently tweeted that the automaker was looking to plop its new Cybertruck Gigafactory someplace in the "central USA," and places don't come more centralized in America than Oklahoma, we suppose.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-factory-website-tulsa-big-effing-field-campaign/



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 10, 2020, 07:11:02 pm
And don't get much more stupid when trying to attract big business.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 10, 2020, 07:25:14 pm
Hey, Elon Musk, There's a "Big F***ing Field" in Tulsa for Tesla's Cybertruck Factory
A cheeky website is begging Tesla to bring its Cybertruck production to Oklahoma.

"Hey Elon, we hear you need a big f*cking field. We've got just the place for your Cybertruck Gigafactory. It's in Tulsa." Pardon the language, but that statement headlines a new website www.bigf***ingfield.com, that apparently exists as a bid to get Tesla to situate its newly announced Cybertruck electric pickup-truck factory in Tusla, Oklahoma. Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently tweeted that the automaker was looking to plop its new Cybertruck Gigafactory someplace in the "central USA," and places don't come more centralized in America than Oklahoma, we suppose.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-factory-website-tulsa-big-effing-field-campaign/





That's pretty f***ing funny


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 10, 2020, 10:00:39 pm
With his sense of humor I think he'd love it. Just have to hope he comes across the page  :P


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 13, 2020, 08:03:25 am
I was listening to KRMG this morning and they had Gov Stitt on talking about several things. He mentioned that he was on the phone with Tesla yesterday. I would assume that was just the state reaching out to guage interest and give their pitch, but perhaps it could lead to more serious discussions.

Tesla did say they're looking for a location in the central region of the country to produce cybertrucks. Give them the big fu**ing field....


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 14, 2020, 01:30:42 pm

There is a similar discussion about Telsa Service Center in Oklahoma City on OKCTalk.com Forum:  https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&highlight=telsa (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&highlight=telsa)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 15, 2020, 03:19:02 pm
CNBC just reported Tesla is considering 2 locations in Tulsa and that the site for a new factory is down to Austin and Tulsa.

Kick Navistar out if they can't maintain the building. That site is about 50% the size of the Fremont plant and they could occupy it almost immediately. Wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the site. As shitty as Navistar has been considering the lease is for $1, get ride of them. Telsa would probably expand that building and would employee twice as many people with higher wages. The Fremont plant employs 10,000. There's not many locations in the US with direct rail access and direct runway access less than 5 miles from an ice free port. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 15, 2020, 03:20:16 pm
Yep down to Tulsa and Austin

 https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 15, 2020, 03:48:52 pm
Yep down to Tulsa and Austin

 https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/)

Tesla in Tulsa?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 15, 2020, 04:10:09 pm
CNBC just reported Tesla is considering 2 locations in Tulsa and that the site for a new factory is down to Austin and Tulsa.

Kick Navistar out if they can't maintain the building. That site is about 50% the size of the Fremont plant and they could occupy it almost immediately. Wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the site. As shitty as Navistar has been considering the lease is for $1, get ride of them. Telsa would probably expand that building and would employee twice as many people with higher wages. The Fremont plant employs 10,000. There's not many locations in the US with direct rail access and direct runway access less than 5 miles from an ice free port.  

I thought the same thing. When the article came out about Navistar my first thought was that there was no way Bynum and the City would risk losing 1600 jobs without trying to negotiate terms. Basically it came off as an unnecessarily aggressive move by the city to me.

In my mind that told me that they had another potential tenant lined up and were looking to use that as leverage against navistar, or intend to kick navistar out to replace them with another tenant. That announcement just so happened to come out the same time as Tesla's announcement to expand into the center of the country, which I don't think is a coincidence.

So Tesla was shown two sites in Tulsa. Perhaps the Navistar site is option #1 if they don't come to terms and then a backup site if Navistar complies with city demands.

Just speculation. Would be fantastic for Tesla to set up shop here though.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 15, 2020, 04:12:09 pm
The Fremont factory employs 10,000 people.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on May 15, 2020, 04:52:15 pm
I thought the same thing. When the article came out about Navistar my first thought was that there was no way Bynum and the City would risk losing 1600 jobs without trying to negotiate terms. Basically it came off as an unnecessarily aggressive move by the city to me.

In my mind that told me that they had another potential tenant lined up and were looking to use that as leverage against navistar, or intend to kick navistar out to replace them with another tenant. That announcement just so happened to come out the same time as Tesla's announcement to expand into the center of the country, which I don't think is a coincidence.

So Tesla was shown two sites in Tulsa. Perhaps the Navistar site is option #1 if they don't come to terms and then a backup site if Navistar complies with city demands.

Just speculation. Would be fantastic for Tesla to set up shop here though.

To me Navistar seems to be the one getting aggressive with the city, not the other way around. Who goes out and gets a PR firm to slander the mayor when you are getting such a sweetheart deal? I wouldn't be sorry to see them thrown to the curb. Would love to see where they go to get a better deal.

I don't think Telsa would take that ratty old building though. They will need a larger facility with better access even if it is smaller than one of their giga factories or whatever they are calling them now. I wonder if they can get a large lot in the port of Catoosa industrial park.

Beating out Austin will be a tough feat though. The things working in our favor are obviously the fact that land and labor is cheaper up here, but obviously Austin is Austin and the work force is probably much easier to come by among other things. It kind of seems like a false choice to me, like Tulsa is in the mix just so they can get a better deal from Austin.

Tesla's leadership leaves a lot to be desired right now anyway. Musk seems to lose his mind every now and then. Seems like another unstable situation that Tulsa would be at the mercy of. First the oil companies, then AA, then this? Wish we could get a boring business like an insurance company to move it's HQ here.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 15, 2020, 05:25:25 pm
Tesla in Tulsa?


DETROIT (AP) — Tesla has picked Austin, Texas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, as finalists for its new U.S. assembly plant, a person briefed on the matter said Friday.

The person says company officials visited Tulsa in the past week and were shown two sites.
It wasn’t clear if there were any other finalists in the mix. the person didn’t want to be identified because the site selection process is secret.

The electric car maker has said it wants the factory to be in the center of the country and closer to East Coast markets.

The stakes are high for state and local governments. Tesla has said the plant will be larger than its factory in Fremont, California, which employs 10,000 workers.

Companies typically play finalists against each other in order to get the best package of tax breaks and other incentives.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/tesla-picks-tulsa-austin-as-finalists-for-new-u-s-factory/article_812dda5f-75f2-5493-aca9-6463f8efe17d.html

Wait for it...

Tesla’s next factory is going to be in Austin, Texas and it’s going to happen quickly
https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 15, 2020, 05:41:43 pm
To me Navistar seems to be the one getting aggressive with the city, not the other way around. Who goes out and gets a PR firm to slander the mayor when you are getting such a sweetheart deal? I wouldn't be sorry to see them thrown to the curb. Would love to see where they go to get a better deal.

I don't think Telsa would take that ratty old building though. They will need a larger facility with better access even if it is smaller than one of their giga factories or whatever they are calling them now. I wonder if they can get a large lot in the port of Catoosa industrial park.

Beating out Austin will be a tough feat though. The things working in our favor are obviously the fact that land and labor is cheaper up here, but obviously Austin is Austin and the work force is probably much easier to come by among other things. It kind of seems like a false choice to me, like Tulsa is in the mix just so they can get a better deal from Austin.

Tesla's leadership leaves a lot to be desired right now anyway. Musk seems to lose his mind every now and then. Seems like another unstable situation that Tulsa would be at the mercy of. First the oil companies, then AA, then this? Wish we could get a boring business like an insurance company to move it's HQ here.

Tesla would definitely need to renovate the building but in terms of his beef with Alameda County right now that would give him an option to shift some product out of California almost immediately and then improve/expand the building over time.

Navistar is trying to bully the city into paying for the deferred maintenance by hiring the PR firms and scaring employees. Navistar is notorious for these antics. All about the bottom line, you have a city renting you a million square foot building for $1 and they think they can get them to pay for the upkeep too... I don't know what else they think they deserve from taxpayers.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Telsa move it's HQ to Austin and build factories in Tulsa and Austin and slowly close the Fremont plant.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 15, 2020, 05:57:13 pm
Maybe Austin can get the HQ or R&D and Tulsa gets the plant, win win for TX and OK.  Tulsa has the better workforce for these advanced manufacturing jobs, especially with the oil and gas and possibly aerospace industries laying off workers.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 15, 2020, 06:08:20 pm
Obviously would be huge for Tulsa.  Austin is stiff competition, but there are a lot of things Tulsa has going for it.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/15/tesla-scouts-head-to-tulsa-austin-as-hunt-for-cybertruck-gigafactory-location-nears-end/

This article says that company officials visited Tulsa this week... doesn't seem to be confirmed in Austin's favor then.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 15, 2020, 06:13:14 pm
There's some sources out there claiming they've already picked Austin, but later reports saying Tulsa is a finalist as well. If they've already picked Austin it wouldn't make much sense for them to have site visits here as recently as this week.

Obviously they would pit finalists against each other to get incentives, but usually those finalists are larger cities, with capacity for larger incentives. Picking Tulsa as a second finalist simply to try to get better incentives seems like it would be really odd.

Not sure what to think, but it sounds like a decision will be made quickly.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 15, 2020, 06:23:17 pm
Confirmed by the Oklahoman,

MAY 15, 2020 - DETROIT (AP) - Tesla has picked Austin, Texas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, as finalists for its new U.S. assembly plant, a person briefed on the matter said Friday.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 15, 2020, 06:35:44 pm
Tesla’s other Battery plants are in Reno and Buffalo, for what it’s worth.  I still think the bus plant is the key to all of this and it isn’t a coincidence the city has been having issues with them.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 15, 2020, 06:41:38 pm
Telsa in T-town, good luck Tulsa.

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-1f40c79bc9ba36ef46cd51d732296583.jpg)

If awarded to Tulsa, the plant will qualify for Oklahoma Quality Jobs incentives...


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 16, 2020, 09:48:51 am

Obviously they would pit finalists against each other to get incentives, but usually those finalists are larger cities, with capacity for larger incentives. Picking Tulsa as a second finalist simply to try to get better incentives seems like it would be really odd.
 

Which airline was it a few years ago that used the threat of moving to Tulsa as leverage against the city they wanted more concessions from?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Jacobei on May 16, 2020, 10:23:52 am
While Tulsa does fit the bill of being more centrally located in the country, I think we have a Solyndra's chance in Tulsa that this will come here.  I hate to be negative, but I've been burned by unrealistic hopes before.

I think we're being used as leverage option and nothing else.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 16, 2020, 10:30:21 am
While Tulsa does fit the bill of being more centrally located in the country, I think we have a Solyndra's chance in Tulsa that this will come here.  I hate to be negative, but I've been burned by unrealistic hopes before.

I think we're being used as leverage option and nothing else.


American Airline Maintenance Center, Tulsa has been there before.  Austin also thinks they are being used as leverage...

Austin is now one of the top ten cities in the U.S. with the worst traffic.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 16, 2020, 12:17:18 pm
Which airline was it a few years ago that used the threat of moving to Tulsa as leverage against the city they wanted more concessions from?

Boeing? I don't remember any actual Airline ever discussing moving to Tulsa. That was just the Dreamliner production, which in hindsight given all of Boeing's problems wasn't as big of a loss. I don't think at the end of the day they really got more out of Washington to keep operations there, and really all we offered them was to build their plant for them which they already had most of what they needed already in Everett. So it wasn't as appealing of an offer to uproot everything to move to Tulsa than most probably thought it was.

The only reason I'm hopeful is if they really are considering the Navistar Bus Plant. There's not a site in Austin that could offer them the same appeal on a logistics basis (directly on the airport, directly on a rail line which is critical to auto plants, and near a port). The sites they've looked at in Austin are in Hutto and Jarrell for reference, so north of Georgetown and south of Temple/Killeen. Not exactly the 'cool' part of Austin. From a talent prospective and appeal side Austin is likely the winner, but Tesla does have a history of not being afraid to locate operations in non-primary MSA's (Reno and Buffalo) and they could acquire 'talent' in Tulsa for a lot cheaper than in Austin. Oklahoma did pass an auto manufacturing tax credit in the last few years which would give them $5,000 per employee. So Oklahoma can offer up a competitive incentive package. 

Tulsa is at least getting a lot of press out of it to be named a 'finalist' even if we're being used as leverage. There was a significant increase of relocations scouting for most cities named as finalist for Amazon from other firms. Hopefully even if Tulsa isn't picked for the site we can use it as a positive.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 18, 2020, 11:33:35 am
This showed up on the OKCTalk.com forum:

May 15, 2020

Tesla’s next factory is going to be in Austin, Texas, and it’s going to happen quickly: https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/ (https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/)

Hope there is no validity to this report.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on May 18, 2020, 01:20:05 pm
^I mean, everyone is rushing to discount Tulsa immediately. If they did indeed come here, then that means we are in some kind of consideration even if it is an outside chance. electrek.co is claiming to have the initial scoop, but apparently Tesla themselves clarified that they hadn't decided yet and Tulsa was still in the running?

Sure, they are probably still trying to use us as leverage, but Austin is pretty darn expensive and as I understand it Tesla isn't allowed to sell directly in Texas currently? Oklahoma doesn't have a lot of stuff going for it intrinsically, but Tulsa is no slouch and both Tulsa and OK will do whatever they can to attract Tesla whereas Texas might be a bit more picky. With Musk's ambitious goals and crazy attitude, I can see Austin being much more tricky to build in than Tulsa.

Then again I just looked through some other articles and they pointed out that Musk has been in Austin recently and posted a bunch of Texas stuff. There are rumors they have already closed on a property out in a field outside of Hutto TX, which is the far north part of the Austin metro.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 18, 2020, 03:53:04 pm
This showed up on the OKCTalk.com forum:

May 15, 2020

Tesla’s next factory is going to be in Austin, Texas, and it’s going to happen quickly: https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/ (https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/)



Im pretty sure they read it here first. ::)



Tulsa in the running?

The reports started with Electrek, a pro-Tesla site whose co-founder Fred Lambert has good connections inside the company. Just before 3pm Eastern time, Lambert reported that Tesla had settled on Austin, Texas as the site of its next factory.

Hours after Electrek's story ran, three news organizations—TechCrunch, CNBC, and the Associated Press—all published stories stating that Tesla was still considering Tulsa, Oklahoma.

"A final decision has not been made, but Austin and Tulsa are among the finalists," Techcrunch's Kirsten Korosec writes, citing "multiple sources."

Lambert accused Tesla of feeding these stories to rival news organizations. I don't know if he's right, but it's not hard to imagine why Tesla would want to avoid tipping its hand. The threat to pick another location would give Tesla leverage in negotiations with Texas and Austin officials. We've asked Tesla for comment on the conflicting reports and will update this story if the company responds.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/05/report-tesla-plans-to-build-a-new-car-factory-in-texas/



So after @FredericLambert 's exclusive that Tesla chose Austin. Tesla reached out to not 1 or 2 but at least 3 different news outlets to say they were still considering Tulsa (LOL?!)
https://mobile.twitter.com/FredericLambert/status/1261414416886624259


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 18, 2020, 06:07:35 pm
We're still pulling for Tulsa.  Convinced that nothing is official until an official announcement has been made.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 18, 2020, 07:15:48 pm
Either way to be considered is a step in the right direction and evidence Tulsa can compete with larger cities for these types of jobs.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 19, 2020, 11:01:54 am
https://www.cybertruckbutts.com/

The people who made the big fu*king field website are at it again....


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 19, 2020, 01:38:47 pm
If the censor-bot munges this URL then make an educated guess:

https://www.bigfuckingfield.com/


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 20, 2020, 08:17:28 am
I know some don’t like the face but I personally think it’s pretty creative.  How long will this stay up there, until they make a final decision?

 https://ktul.com/news/local/golden-driller-transformed-into-elon-musk (https://ktul.com/news/local/golden-driller-transformed-into-elon-musk)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 20, 2020, 08:26:39 am
There was a rumor on Reddit that Elon was going to be in Tulsa today to meet with the mayor. Most likely nothing more than a baseless rumor and someone trying to stir up excitement, but i'll keep my hopes high on the off chance that it's true 🤣


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on May 20, 2020, 08:45:07 am
lol, the face may be where I draw the line. Now we are groveling at the feet of Elon.

I wouldn't doubt he would pay a visit to acknowledge the recognition and let us down easy. Probably just a rumor that he is visiting today though.

Now how can we shift this energy into attracting more likely corporate entities to Tulsa/OK?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: AdamsHall on May 20, 2020, 09:13:13 am
lol, the face may be where I draw the line. Now we are groveling at the feet of Elon.

I wouldn't doubt he would pay a visit to acknowledge the recognition and let us down easy. Probably just a rumor that he is visiting today though.

Now how can we shift this energy into attracting more likely corporate entities to Tulsa/OK?

Like most, I anticipate Tulsa is being used to get more bene's from Austin/TX.  That said, this will not be Tesla's last factory/facility that they construct, so if we are really #2 and the HQ goes to DFW, then we should also have a good shot at future facility.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 20, 2020, 09:42:54 am
Like most, I anticipate Tulsa is being used to get more bene's from Austin/TX.  That said, this will not be Tesla's last factory/facility that they construct, so if we are really #2 and the HQ goes to DFW, then we should also have a good shot at future facility.

That would be pretty cool to see TX/OK as a major electric car manufacturing and R&D hub.  Similar to how the upper midwest was to car and auto parts manufacturers 50 years ago


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 20, 2020, 09:54:26 pm
That would be pretty cool to see TX/OK as a major electric car manufacturing and R&D hub.  Similar to how the upper midwest was to car and auto parts manufacturers 50 years ago


Would be ironic.   Electric car manufacturing in one state that abhors the concept!

Kind of like Okemah and northeast Oklahoma paying homage to Woody Guthrie!



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 21, 2020, 12:40:07 pm
lol, the face may be where I draw the line. Now we are groveling at the feet of Elon.

The face is pretty grotesque...

Isnt it still illegal in Oklahoma to buy a Tesla directly thru the company?  That sure isnt in our favor.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Dspike on May 21, 2020, 02:13:59 pm
Yes. But also true in Texas and probably not too relevant to whether either city has the capacity/workforce/incentives for a large manufacturing facility.

https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/why-its-hard-to-buy-a-tesla-in-texas/


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 21, 2020, 08:30:13 pm
The face is pretty grotesque...

Isnt it still illegal in Oklahoma to buy a Tesla directly thru the company?  That sure isnt in our favor.


You know that will be one of the first things discussed and agreed to.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 23, 2020, 05:57:23 pm
If Telsa were to commit to Oklahoma, you know the legislature would make the necessary changes to allow customers to buy direct from the factory.   I've never seen a situation in which Oklahoma didn't act to make changes to accommodate economic development.

Wouldn't rule out Tulsa acquiring the Telsa facillty.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 23, 2020, 08:41:47 pm
In a dystopian bid to lure Tesla’s Cybertruck Gigafactory to Tulsa, the Oklahoma state monument—a seven-story, 22-ton statue of an oil worker called The Golden Driller—has been redesigned as an effigy of Elon Musk. The likeness of X Æ A-12’s multibillionaire father, now called The Driller ‘Golden Elon,’ is one of the largest free-standing statues in the U.S.

“Tulsa is a city that doesn’t stifle entrepreneurs - we revere them!” Tulsa Mayor G.T. Bynum wrote on Facebook, prompting an onslaught of enraged replies. “Golden @elonmusk is now the 6th-tallest statue in the United States. #TulsaforTesla @Tesla.”

The gargantuan statue, unveiled earlier this week at a community event and on Bynum’s social media, now features a red Tesla logo painted on its chest. The Driller’s 48-foot belt, which once read “TULSA,” was changed to read “TESLA.” If you squint, the statue’s head now looks like a low-budget YouTube cartoon of Musk. “I was told onsite it was an ‘Elon Musk Face Skin,’” one worker wrote on Facebook. “It went on like a fruit roll-up.”

“It’s this weird, ghostly, white mask-like thing,” said Lucas Wrench, a 28-year-old Tulsa Artist Fellow, who runs an arts space called OK #1. “It sort of looks like if you FaceSwapped with some creature. I just couldn’t believe it. I’m shocked at how transparent it is—the kind of a symbol they created in putting this enormous billionaire, literally a giant towering billionaire in Tulsa—the lack of self-awareness. They’re groveling.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-giant-monument-to-tesla-billionaire-elon-musk-has-tulsa-residents-furious


The move is so absurd that one hardly knows how to react, but turning a representation of a worker (even though it was originally built by an oil company in the 50s) into an effigy of a union-busting factory owner coercing people to return to the line during a pandemic is probably not a good look.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dyz8mw/tulsa-oklahoma-unveiled-a-7-story-tall-statue-of-elon-musk


The statue in question is the Golden Driller, a 43,500 pound likeness of an oil worker — the irony doesn’t escape us
https://futurism.com/the-byte/7-story-statue-elon-musk-looks-absolutely-terrible

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/22/14/28705014-0-image-a-16_1590153151521.jpg)



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 24, 2020, 11:37:12 am

Tulsa IMO has a very good chance of securing the Telsa Plant.

If Telsa were going to Texas, you bet they would have already selected Austin.   Texas isn't going to give any more incentives to lure Telsa and they know it.  They are playing this game to see what they can get from Oklahoma.  They know Oklahoma's track record on tax incentives thru the old Oklahoma City GM plant debacle.

If we were to get this plant; it will be great for all of Oklahoma particularly the Tulsa, Muskogee and Bartlesville (Northeast Quadrant) would reap the benefits of employment and support from this huge mega plant.
(https://www.joc.com/sites/default/files/field_feature_image/catoosa.jpg)

Let's not forget; Tulsa is on a barge canal transportation system Ports of Catoosa/Muskogee, an extra alternative that Austin doesn't have.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 24, 2020, 03:23:11 pm
I don’t know how much, if any, the port plays into this but it certainly doesn’t hurt and it is something they don’t have in Austin/central TX.  Rail and highway access seem like they would be more important.  So that begs the question if Tulsa did land a plant where would it go?  Assuming the Navistar plant is off the table.. ;)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 24, 2020, 06:14:45 pm
I don’t know how much, if any, the port plays into this but it certainly doesn’t hurt and it is something they don’t have in Austin/central TX.  Rail and highway access seem like they would be more important.  So that begs the question if Tulsa did land a plant where would it go?  Assuming the Navistar plant is off the table.. ;)

Isn't GKFF giving away free land in the peoria mohawk industrial park? That's probably an option.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 24, 2020, 09:21:51 pm
Isn't GKFF giving away free land in the peoria mohawk industrial park? That's probably an option.

Yes but it doesn’t currently have rail access.  I would think out by the airport would be a better location - better air, rail and highway access.

Peoria-Mohawk
(https://base.imgix.net/files/base/ebm/industryweek/image/2019/05/industryweek_32846_peoriamohawk_1_0.png?auto=format&dpr=2&fit=crop&h=432&w=768)

Airport industrial options
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/4f/04fafe97-ea84-59d8-a8f6-71c4845a550e/523d9864cfa50.image.jpg?resize=500%2C723)



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 25, 2020, 11:06:57 am
Since the GKFF land doesn't have rail access that would not be an option. Direct rail access to a major line is critical to these facilities.

The other most likely spot outside of the bus plant or vacant land near the airport would be the former Black Fox site that PSO transferred to the Port Authority. It has direct access to Union Pacific through a rail spur built for Sofidel and the Port Authority is building barge access there so they'd have direct loading capabilities on the water and rail there.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 25, 2020, 03:45:07 pm
Since the GKFF land doesn't have rail access that would not be an option. Direct rail access to a major line is critical to these facilities.

The other most likely spot outside of the bus plant or vacant land near the airport would be the former Black Fox site that PSO transferred to the Port Authority. It has direct access to Union Pacific through a rail spur built for Sofidel and the Port Authority is building barge access there so they'd have direct loading capabilities on the water and rail there.

Black Fox would be a good location for those reasons.  It would certainly be a shot in the arm for Inola and likely would result in a lot of new housing and development in the New Tulsa area.  I would think extending 41st St with a new interchange at the Creek Turnpike and a new bridge over the Verdigris would be needed if something that large was built there.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 25, 2020, 11:46:52 pm
Something else to think about with the SpaceX launch soon... Jim Bridenstine I'm sure has had a conversation or two with Elon. Wonder if that would give Tulsa some favor-ability politically given his ambitions for SpaceX.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 26, 2020, 10:15:01 am
So evidently Tesla officials visited two sites, was it ever known which ones they visited?  It seems like Navistar checks a lot of boxes but it wouldn't be a very good look for the city to kick them out.  Spirit Aerosystems also uses part of the old bomber factory. 

I wonder if the Cherokee Industrial Park has a site big enough with rail access?  That would be the best location IMO, more central to existing neighborhoods in Tulsa and would likely pull Owasso closer to Hwy 75.  So much new development in Tulsa County has been in the southern parts it would be great to see more in the northern area.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: owenix on May 26, 2020, 04:14:08 pm
Looking at the gigafactory outside of reno I don't see any kind of multimodal transport. Odd for an auto manufacturer, but I think the vision is battery powered self driving trucks.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 26, 2020, 04:27:13 pm
Looking at the gigafactory outside of reno I don't see any kind of multimodal transport. Odd for an auto manufacturer, but I think the vision is battery powered self driving trucks.

The Reno plant only makes batteries (same as the Buffalo plant) that's why rail access wasn't as important, they don't make any cars there. Shanghai and Fremont are the only two plants for Tesla that make the actual vehicles. The plant they are looking at now will be larger than Reno/Buffalo and employ at least as many as the Fremont Plant which has about 10,000 employees. It will be producing the actual vehicles (CyberTruck and the Model Y) and almost every auto plant has direct rail access to the major line (Union Pacific, etc.)

The site in Austin (Hutto) was the runner up to Reno site. That's why a lot of people have zeroed in on thinking Austin has already landed the plant in the press. That's been the talk for a year at least of that's where the next Tesla plant would go.

So, in the long run I think that would bode well for us if we're the runner up and they do build on the Hutto site, Tulsa could very well be in line for the next plant they build. Just might be another 3-5 years down the road.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Red Arrow on May 26, 2020, 04:44:46 pm
So evidently Tesla officials visited two sites, was it ever known which ones they visited?  It seems like Navistar checks a lot of boxes but it wouldn't be a very good look for the city to kick them out.  Spirit Aerosystems also uses part of the old bomber factory. 

I wonder if the Cherokee Industrial Park has a site big enough with rail access?  That would be the best location IMO, more central to existing neighborhoods in Tulsa and would likely pull Owasso closer to Hwy 75.  So much new development in Tulsa County has been in the southern parts it would be great to see more in the northern area.

I would like to see development on the north side rather than out here in the south.  Traffic on S Memorial is horrible, even with Covid19.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 26, 2020, 06:56:20 pm
It makes the most sense for it to be located north with rail access near the airport or port or out by Owasso where Whirlpool/Verizon/Honeywell/Macys are.

The only decent south location I can think of with land and rail access would be in Jenks near Kimberly Clark, but there are so many neighborhoods around them now I'm sure there would be a zoning fight. And traffic would be awful, they would have to fix the US75 stop light at 141st in Glenpool. Maybe Coweta?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Red Arrow on May 26, 2020, 08:26:10 pm
It makes the most sense for it to be located north with rail access near the airport or port or out by Owasso where Whirlpool/Verizon/Honeywell/Macys are.

The only decent south location I can think of with land and rail access would be in Jenks near Kimberly Clark, but there are so many neighborhoods around them now I'm sure there would be a zoning fight. And traffic would be awful, they would have to fix the US75 stop light at 141st in Glenpool. Maybe Coweta?

Anything that big built near Kimberly Clark would make driving on S Memorial look like Los Angeles.  No thanks, it's bad enough already.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 26, 2020, 09:08:27 pm
Anything that big built near Kimberly Clark would make driving on S Memorial look like Los Angeles.  No thanks, it's bad enough already.

I assume traffic would go west to US-75, but not much better.

And I have said that the stupid west side Gilcrease turnpike should have been built from the US-169/Creek Turnpike split to go south across the river to relieve traffic on Memorial.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 26, 2020, 11:11:17 pm
I assume traffic would go west to US-75, but not much better.

And I have said that the stupid west side Gilcrease turnpike should have been built from the US-169/Creek Turnpike split to go south across the river to relieve traffic on Memorial.

Is the Yale bridge proposal officially dead?  Seems like that would help ease traffic moving between Tulsa and Jenks/Bixby.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 27, 2020, 03:31:56 pm
I guess Stitt went to Florida for the SpaceX launch and to meet up with Elon? Lol

https://twitter.com/GovStitt/status/1265746778734944259?s=20


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on May 28, 2020, 09:41:02 am
I guess Stitt went to Florida for the SpaceX launch and to meet up with Elon? Lol

https://twitter.com/GovStitt/status/1265746778734944259?s=20

Hey, if we are trying to sell Tulsa and OK, this is the kind of stuff you do.  And man, whether or not a person is in favor of Tesla coming, some of the comments are embarrassing to the state.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 28, 2020, 10:23:04 am
I agree. If we're trying to get Tesla here, we should go all out in our efforts. I'm encouraged that we're still getting face time and publicity... if it was a lock for Austin I wouldn't think we'd still be around.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 28, 2020, 10:37:42 am
I agree. If we're trying to get Tesla here, we should go all out in our efforts. I'm encouraged that we're still getting face time and publicity... if it was a lock for Austin I wouldn't think we'd still be around.

I don't think they have decided on Austin.  Think about what Texas has to offer and the fact that Austin is now becoming a victim of its own aggressive growth (traffic).  

IMO Telsa wants Tulsa to throw in a few more incentives and perks.  Telsa isn't going to get anymore perks and incentives from Austin...  ...they are trying  to get more from Tulsa, hoping the State of Oklahoma will throw in the kitchen sink.

That explains Governor Stitt's recent meeting with Elon Musk.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 28, 2020, 02:32:42 pm
Interesting information in this article: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-local-officials-make-pitch-for-tulsa-during-meeting-with-elon-musk/article_3f72c855-4794-52d7-8439-6cc4870fd7c7.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

I figured the concern with Tulsa, as it typically is, is about workforce and the lack of thousands of available skilled employees. Elon apparently has that concern when it comes to engineers.

This article also kind of reads like Tulsa may not be the frontrunner or perhaps Elon just isn't focused on site selection right now:

Quote
Kouplen said he asked Musk to come to Tulsa before making a decision and Musk said he would consider it.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 28, 2020, 02:48:41 pm
I thought this was interesting considering all the hand-wringing about it by some Tulsans

Quote
He said Musk asked about the Golden Driller, and a recent attention-grabbing  effort in which Musk's likeness was painted on the giant figure's face and the Tesla symbol onto its belt buckle.

Musk wanted to know if it was real or photo shopped, Kouplen said.

“He thought that was pretty cool,” Kouplen said.

Regarding the lack of skilled engineers, that has never hurt AA or the other aerospace companies that have thousands of employees in Tulsa.  While we don't have a major state university in the city TU has a well-known engineering school and we are 1.5 hours from OSU and 2 hours from both OU and UofArkansas combined that's over 65k students.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 28, 2020, 07:29:24 pm
Well I guess the Navistar/IC Bus plant is off the table

 https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/city-of-tulsa-ic-bus-announce-new-20-year-agreement-for-bus-manufacturing-plant-301067069.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/city-of-tulsa-ic-bus-announce-new-20-year-agreement-for-bus-manufacturing-plant-301067069.html)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on May 29, 2020, 12:38:26 pm
I thought this was interesting considering all the hand-wringing about it by some Tulsans

Regarding the lack of skilled engineers, that has never hurt AA or the other aerospace companies that have thousands of employees in Tulsa.  While we don't have a major state university in the city TU has a well-known engineering school and we are 1.5 hours from OSU and 2 hours from both OU and UofArkansas combined that's over 65k students.

Agreed. Tulsa and the surrounding area(s) would be more than able to supply the needs for engineers and skilled technical workers. But, so would Austin.  Between UT and TAMU (only two hours away), there are over 100K students.

I just did quick LinkedIn search (which won't be exact, but close enough). Most of the Tesla employees come from where you would expect.  CA schools and a number of the more elite national universities (MIT, Purdue, GA Tech, etc...) make up the bulk of the universities. But also, interestingly, there are 115 people from TAMU.  That is more than USC, and close to MIT.   It's also surprising because there are only 49 from UT Austin.  Comparatively, there are 14 from OSU, 15 from OU, 8 from UofA.  Not sure what the connection of TAMU to Tesla is, but that is high number compared to other regional schools.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 29, 2020, 01:49:19 pm
Agreed. Tulsa and the surrounding area(s) would be more than able to supply the needs for engineers and skilled technical workers. But, so would Austin.  Between UT and TAMU (only two hours away), there are over 100K students.

I just did quick LinkedIn search (which won't be exact, but close enough). Most of the Tesla employees come from where you would expect.  CA schools and a number of the more elite national universities (MIT, Purdue, GA Tech, etc...) make up the bulk of the universities. But also, interestingly, there are 115 people from TAMU.  That is more than USC, and close to MIT.   It's also surprising because there are only 49 from UT Austin.  Comparatively, there are 14 from OSU, 15 from OU, 8 from UofA.  Not sure what the connection of TAMU to Tesla is, but that is high number compared to other regional schools.



Texas A&M has a very good (and large) mechanical engineering program.  It's slightly more of a stretch but both KU and KSU have strong engineering programs; KU is 4 hours and KSU is 4.5 hours away.  Both have sizable alumni bases in Tulsa.

If we're not selected maybe this gets the state to get serious about expanding OU-Tulsa and OSU-Tulsa because this is a major deficiency for the Tulsa area.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 29, 2020, 09:20:19 pm
I thought this was interesting considering all the hand-wringing about it by some Tulsans

Regarding the lack of skilled engineers, that has never hurt AA or the other aerospace companies that have thousands of employees in Tulsa.  While we don't have a major state university in the city TU has a well-known engineering school and we are 1.5 hours from OSU and 2 hours from both OU and UofArkansas combined that's over 65k students.


Just some basic background info;

In 2018, OSU had 831 graduates in the school of Engineering, Architecture and Technology (260 Mechanical Engineers).   Seems like I remember there are 'about' 25,000 full time at Stillwater and another 10,000 spread around the other campus', many of them part time.  (35,000 is OSU stated number.)  That is a pretty small number of STEM, but on a par with national population of STEM people working nationwide. 

Sadly, Oklahoma doesn't have the capacity to hire anywhere near 800 per year.  We lose a lot outside of OK.  Rebound gave some numbers about Tesla employee schools.  I would like to know current number of STEMs they employ.  Guy I worked with got interview with them in CA a few years ago (OSU grad) and at the time, I think he said they had 3 or 4 thousand technology types.

OSU has a great Engineering school!  We don't get all the recognition - or the support - we deserve for it, both in state and nationwide.

Bottom line, Tesla would still be trying to import people to work there.   And it would be an uphill battle.







Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 30, 2020, 07:22:40 am
Honest question, how many people actually working in the plant have engineering degrees?  Aren’t most assembly line workers that you could recruit from Tulsa Tech or Tulsa Welding School similar to many of the employees working at the AA maintenance base?  I understand electric cars are somewhat different but all 10k+ workers won’t need college degrees let alone mechanical engineering degrees.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 30, 2020, 02:14:08 pm
Honest question, how many people actually working in the plant have engineering degrees?  Aren’t most assembly line workers that you could recruit from Tulsa Tech or Tulsa Welding School similar to many of the employees working at the AA maintenance base?  I understand electric cars are somewhat different but all 10k+ workers won’t need college degrees let alone mechanical engineering degrees.

They will need much less training than the people at AA. It's more like the employees at the bus factory.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 30, 2020, 09:32:27 pm
Honest question, how many people actually working in the plant have engineering degrees?  Aren’t most assembly line workers that you could recruit from Tulsa Tech or Tulsa Welding School similar to many of the employees working at the AA maintenance base?  I understand electric cars are somewhat different but all 10k+ workers won’t need college degrees let alone mechanical engineering degrees.


That's the question I have about the CA Tesla plant. Should be somewhat similar.  Rebound gave some numbers - couple hundred engineering types from the schools he mentioned.  Friend said there were several thousand when he went there...whatever that is.  Have not heard any numbers since.

If it is only a thousand needed here, that could still be a problem. 



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on May 31, 2020, 08:47:39 am
Texas A&M has a very good (and large) mechanical engineering program.  It's slightly more of a stretch but both KU and KSU have strong engineering programs; KU is 4 hours and KSU is 4.5 hours away.  Both have sizable alumni bases in Tulsa.

If we're not selected maybe this gets the state to get serious about expanding OU-Tulsa and OSU-Tulsa because this is a major deficiency for the Tulsa area.

Not one of the engineering programs mentioned in this thread to feed a Tulsa Tesla plant is ranked  in the top 100 by US News.

There are seven top 100 engineering programs within comparable distances from Hutto,Texas


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 31, 2020, 03:54:41 pm
I saw a post on Reddit yesterday about a guy whose relative works for a company that has been asked to bid on a "Tesla building" in Tulsa. Hasn't been given any further info on it yet. Could be a showroom, service center, etc. Timing doesn't seem right for it to be the factory. Still interesting though


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 31, 2020, 04:29:18 pm
Not one of the engineering programs mentioned in this thread to feed a Tulsa Tesla plant is ranked  in the top 100 by US News.

There are seven top 100 engineering programs within comparable distances from Hutto,Texas

Again most of these assembly line workers don’t need college degrees.  I would put our skilled workforce in oil & gas components and aerospace ahead of anything Austin/Hutto offers.  Do all Tesla engineers need to be from Top 100 engineering schools?  Many would relocate from CA anyway, and I’m sure would be happy to move to an affordable state.  The rest would probably be a mix of the regional schools and Texas/Colorado.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on June 01, 2020, 11:35:00 am
Not sure where this website came from, but worth sharing around. https://www.tulsafortesla.com/


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 01, 2020, 02:03:29 pm
Again most of these assembly line workers don’t need college degrees.  I would put our skilled workforce in oil & gas components and aerospace ahead of anything Austin/Hutto offers.  Do all Tesla engineers need to be from Top 100 engineering schools?  Many would relocate from CA anyway, and I’m sure would be happy to move to an affordable state.  The rest would probably be a mix of the regional schools and Texas/Colorado.

You are right, the vast majority of these jobs will only require a high school/GED education and they are even willing to hire people without those if they have experience in similar type of jobs. The amount of the highly skilled workers they will need to recruit is a much smaller piece of the pie. Most of assembly line jobs pay $40k/year starting out full-time. That's where we have a strong case to make against even Austin, $40k in Tulsa goes a lot further to having a nicer life than in Austin.

Doubling the size of OU/OSU/TU likely wouldn't make much of a dent for a economic development project of this size. College pipelines are critical to smaller and more regional sized firms to grow and are important to the long term viability of large companies. It will be important to add/beef up programs to fill roles for Tesla long term if they do locate here to fill job openings for natural turnover/growth, which is slower and more stable than an initial scale up. This is a much smaller concern than the initial scale up phase, that's where a lot of the risk plays out.

Really it all boils down to do companies think they can recruit to Tulsa. For any major expansion or relocation of over a thousand employees, outside of a small handful of metros like DC, NYC, San Fran, etc. they are going to be a net importer of people to scale up to a level of employment quickly (within a year or two). This is why places like Austin, Nashville, Denver, Salt Lake City, Portland (medium sized metros) have been so successful is because they invested heavily on quality of life programs and built the blocks of a city people wanted to relocate, which in return helped them be a net importer of graduates (not just from local universities) and gave companies the confidence they can fill job positions in those markets and companies followed. 

Frankly, that's why the GKFF remote worker program is such a huge marketing piece that some don't even realize. We can now go to a company and say we had 20,000 people apply to move to Tulsa last year, that helps reduce some of that fear of hiring/talent pipelines of being able to bring in a thousand or more employees with a large portion of those probably being from surrounding markets like Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, etc. Places like Dallas/Houston have ate Oklahoma's lunch in this regard marketing to companies looking to expand. It's really astonishing how many people I talk to in Dallas, Houston and Austin that moved from Oklahoma. They didn't build those markets off UT and A&M grads only - they built it off OSU, OU, LSU, U of A, KU, KSU and people of those states through showing that companies had the ability to pull in people from a regional footprint.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on June 01, 2020, 04:44:13 pm
Congratulations!

Tesla Delivery and Service Center. Going in at 6010 South 129th Avenue East. Currently set to bid the middle of June. Shows to be 23,718 square feet.

OKCTalk.com
will release details later...  https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122371#post1122371 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122371#post1122371)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on June 01, 2020, 04:46:20 pm
I saw a post on Reddit yesterday about a guy whose relative works for a company that has been asked to bid on a "Tesla building" in Tulsa. Hasn't been given any further info on it yet. Could be a showroom, service center, etc. Timing doesn't seem right for it to be the factory. Still interesting though

There is a Tesla Service Center planned for 61st & 129th E Ave.  It's going an existing building with the build-out starting later this summer.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on June 01, 2020, 05:14:00 pm
Telsa Center via OKCTalk.com

(https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla4.jpg)

(https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla2.jpg)

(https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla3.jpg)

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122411#post1122411 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122411#post1122411)