The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: patric on May 10, 2020, 06:39:14 pm



Title: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 10, 2020, 06:39:14 pm
Hey, Elon Musk, There's a "Big F***ing Field" in Tulsa for Tesla's Cybertruck Factory
A cheeky website is begging Tesla to bring its Cybertruck production to Oklahoma.

"Hey Elon, we hear you need a big f*cking field. We've got just the place for your Cybertruck Gigafactory. It's in Tulsa." Pardon the language, but that statement headlines a new website www.bigf***ingfield.com, that apparently exists as a bid to get Tesla to situate its newly announced Cybertruck electric pickup-truck factory in Tusla, Oklahoma. Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently tweeted that the automaker was looking to plop its new Cybertruck Gigafactory someplace in the "central USA," and places don't come more centralized in America than Oklahoma, we suppose.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-factory-website-tulsa-big-effing-field-campaign/



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 10, 2020, 07:11:02 pm
And don't get much more stupid when trying to attract big business.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 10, 2020, 07:25:14 pm
Hey, Elon Musk, There's a "Big F***ing Field" in Tulsa for Tesla's Cybertruck Factory
A cheeky website is begging Tesla to bring its Cybertruck production to Oklahoma.

"Hey Elon, we hear you need a big f*cking field. We've got just the place for your Cybertruck Gigafactory. It's in Tulsa." Pardon the language, but that statement headlines a new website www.bigf***ingfield.com, that apparently exists as a bid to get Tesla to situate its newly announced Cybertruck electric pickup-truck factory in Tusla, Oklahoma. Tesla CEO Elon Musk recently tweeted that the automaker was looking to plop its new Cybertruck Gigafactory someplace in the "central USA," and places don't come more centralized in America than Oklahoma, we suppose.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-factory-website-tulsa-big-effing-field-campaign/





That's pretty f***ing funny


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 10, 2020, 10:00:39 pm
With his sense of humor I think he'd love it. Just have to hope he comes across the page  :P


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 13, 2020, 08:03:25 am
I was listening to KRMG this morning and they had Gov Stitt on talking about several things. He mentioned that he was on the phone with Tesla yesterday. I would assume that was just the state reaching out to guage interest and give their pitch, but perhaps it could lead to more serious discussions.

Tesla did say they're looking for a location in the central region of the country to produce cybertrucks. Give them the big fu**ing field....


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 14, 2020, 01:30:42 pm

There is a similar discussion about Telsa Service Center in Oklahoma City on OKCTalk.com Forum:  https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&highlight=telsa (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&highlight=telsa)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 15, 2020, 03:19:02 pm
CNBC just reported Tesla is considering 2 locations in Tulsa and that the site for a new factory is down to Austin and Tulsa.

Kick Navistar out if they can't maintain the building. That site is about 50% the size of the Fremont plant and they could occupy it almost immediately. Wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the site. As shitty as Navistar has been considering the lease is for $1, get ride of them. Telsa would probably expand that building and would employee twice as many people with higher wages. The Fremont plant employs 10,000. There's not many locations in the US with direct rail access and direct runway access less than 5 miles from an ice free port. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 15, 2020, 03:20:16 pm
Yep down to Tulsa and Austin

 https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 15, 2020, 03:48:52 pm
Yep down to Tulsa and Austin

 https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/ (https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/05/15/report-tesla-to-build-factory-in-austin-and-produce-model-y-vehicles-by-end-of-2020/)

Tesla in Tulsa?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 15, 2020, 04:10:09 pm
CNBC just reported Tesla is considering 2 locations in Tulsa and that the site for a new factory is down to Austin and Tulsa.

Kick Navistar out if they can't maintain the building. That site is about 50% the size of the Fremont plant and they could occupy it almost immediately. Wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the site. As shitty as Navistar has been considering the lease is for $1, get ride of them. Telsa would probably expand that building and would employee twice as many people with higher wages. The Fremont plant employs 10,000. There's not many locations in the US with direct rail access and direct runway access less than 5 miles from an ice free port.  

I thought the same thing. When the article came out about Navistar my first thought was that there was no way Bynum and the City would risk losing 1600 jobs without trying to negotiate terms. Basically it came off as an unnecessarily aggressive move by the city to me.

In my mind that told me that they had another potential tenant lined up and were looking to use that as leverage against navistar, or intend to kick navistar out to replace them with another tenant. That announcement just so happened to come out the same time as Tesla's announcement to expand into the center of the country, which I don't think is a coincidence.

So Tesla was shown two sites in Tulsa. Perhaps the Navistar site is option #1 if they don't come to terms and then a backup site if Navistar complies with city demands.

Just speculation. Would be fantastic for Tesla to set up shop here though.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 15, 2020, 04:12:09 pm
The Fremont factory employs 10,000 people.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on May 15, 2020, 04:52:15 pm
I thought the same thing. When the article came out about Navistar my first thought was that there was no way Bynum and the City would risk losing 1600 jobs without trying to negotiate terms. Basically it came off as an unnecessarily aggressive move by the city to me.

In my mind that told me that they had another potential tenant lined up and were looking to use that as leverage against navistar, or intend to kick navistar out to replace them with another tenant. That announcement just so happened to come out the same time as Tesla's announcement to expand into the center of the country, which I don't think is a coincidence.

So Tesla was shown two sites in Tulsa. Perhaps the Navistar site is option #1 if they don't come to terms and then a backup site if Navistar complies with city demands.

Just speculation. Would be fantastic for Tesla to set up shop here though.

To me Navistar seems to be the one getting aggressive with the city, not the other way around. Who goes out and gets a PR firm to slander the mayor when you are getting such a sweetheart deal? I wouldn't be sorry to see them thrown to the curb. Would love to see where they go to get a better deal.

I don't think Telsa would take that ratty old building though. They will need a larger facility with better access even if it is smaller than one of their giga factories or whatever they are calling them now. I wonder if they can get a large lot in the port of Catoosa industrial park.

Beating out Austin will be a tough feat though. The things working in our favor are obviously the fact that land and labor is cheaper up here, but obviously Austin is Austin and the work force is probably much easier to come by among other things. It kind of seems like a false choice to me, like Tulsa is in the mix just so they can get a better deal from Austin.

Tesla's leadership leaves a lot to be desired right now anyway. Musk seems to lose his mind every now and then. Seems like another unstable situation that Tulsa would be at the mercy of. First the oil companies, then AA, then this? Wish we could get a boring business like an insurance company to move it's HQ here.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 15, 2020, 05:25:25 pm
Tesla in Tulsa?


DETROIT (AP) — Tesla has picked Austin, Texas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, as finalists for its new U.S. assembly plant, a person briefed on the matter said Friday.

The person says company officials visited Tulsa in the past week and were shown two sites.
It wasn’t clear if there were any other finalists in the mix. the person didn’t want to be identified because the site selection process is secret.

The electric car maker has said it wants the factory to be in the center of the country and closer to East Coast markets.

The stakes are high for state and local governments. Tesla has said the plant will be larger than its factory in Fremont, California, which employs 10,000 workers.

Companies typically play finalists against each other in order to get the best package of tax breaks and other incentives.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/tesla-picks-tulsa-austin-as-finalists-for-new-u-s-factory/article_812dda5f-75f2-5493-aca9-6463f8efe17d.html

Wait for it...

Tesla’s next factory is going to be in Austin, Texas and it’s going to happen quickly
https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 15, 2020, 05:41:43 pm
To me Navistar seems to be the one getting aggressive with the city, not the other way around. Who goes out and gets a PR firm to slander the mayor when you are getting such a sweetheart deal? I wouldn't be sorry to see them thrown to the curb. Would love to see where they go to get a better deal.

I don't think Telsa would take that ratty old building though. They will need a larger facility with better access even if it is smaller than one of their giga factories or whatever they are calling them now. I wonder if they can get a large lot in the port of Catoosa industrial park.

Beating out Austin will be a tough feat though. The things working in our favor are obviously the fact that land and labor is cheaper up here, but obviously Austin is Austin and the work force is probably much easier to come by among other things. It kind of seems like a false choice to me, like Tulsa is in the mix just so they can get a better deal from Austin.

Tesla's leadership leaves a lot to be desired right now anyway. Musk seems to lose his mind every now and then. Seems like another unstable situation that Tulsa would be at the mercy of. First the oil companies, then AA, then this? Wish we could get a boring business like an insurance company to move it's HQ here.

Tesla would definitely need to renovate the building but in terms of his beef with Alameda County right now that would give him an option to shift some product out of California almost immediately and then improve/expand the building over time.

Navistar is trying to bully the city into paying for the deferred maintenance by hiring the PR firms and scaring employees. Navistar is notorious for these antics. All about the bottom line, you have a city renting you a million square foot building for $1 and they think they can get them to pay for the upkeep too... I don't know what else they think they deserve from taxpayers.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Telsa move it's HQ to Austin and build factories in Tulsa and Austin and slowly close the Fremont plant.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 15, 2020, 05:57:13 pm
Maybe Austin can get the HQ or R&D and Tulsa gets the plant, win win for TX and OK.  Tulsa has the better workforce for these advanced manufacturing jobs, especially with the oil and gas and possibly aerospace industries laying off workers.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 15, 2020, 06:08:20 pm
Obviously would be huge for Tulsa.  Austin is stiff competition, but there are a lot of things Tulsa has going for it.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/15/tesla-scouts-head-to-tulsa-austin-as-hunt-for-cybertruck-gigafactory-location-nears-end/

This article says that company officials visited Tulsa this week... doesn't seem to be confirmed in Austin's favor then.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 15, 2020, 06:13:14 pm
There's some sources out there claiming they've already picked Austin, but later reports saying Tulsa is a finalist as well. If they've already picked Austin it wouldn't make much sense for them to have site visits here as recently as this week.

Obviously they would pit finalists against each other to get incentives, but usually those finalists are larger cities, with capacity for larger incentives. Picking Tulsa as a second finalist simply to try to get better incentives seems like it would be really odd.

Not sure what to think, but it sounds like a decision will be made quickly.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 15, 2020, 06:23:17 pm
Confirmed by the Oklahoman,

MAY 15, 2020 - DETROIT (AP) - Tesla has picked Austin, Texas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, as finalists for its new U.S. assembly plant, a person briefed on the matter said Friday.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 15, 2020, 06:35:44 pm
Tesla’s other Battery plants are in Reno and Buffalo, for what it’s worth.  I still think the bus plant is the key to all of this and it isn’t a coincidence the city has been having issues with them.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 15, 2020, 06:41:38 pm
Telsa in T-town, good luck Tulsa.

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-1f40c79bc9ba36ef46cd51d732296583.jpg)

If awarded to Tulsa, the plant will qualify for Oklahoma Quality Jobs incentives...


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 16, 2020, 09:48:51 am

Obviously they would pit finalists against each other to get incentives, but usually those finalists are larger cities, with capacity for larger incentives. Picking Tulsa as a second finalist simply to try to get better incentives seems like it would be really odd.
 

Which airline was it a few years ago that used the threat of moving to Tulsa as leverage against the city they wanted more concessions from?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Jacobei on May 16, 2020, 10:23:52 am
While Tulsa does fit the bill of being more centrally located in the country, I think we have a Solyndra's chance in Tulsa that this will come here.  I hate to be negative, but I've been burned by unrealistic hopes before.

I think we're being used as leverage option and nothing else.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 16, 2020, 10:30:21 am
While Tulsa does fit the bill of being more centrally located in the country, I think we have a Solyndra's chance in Tulsa that this will come here.  I hate to be negative, but I've been burned by unrealistic hopes before.

I think we're being used as leverage option and nothing else.


American Airline Maintenance Center, Tulsa has been there before.  Austin also thinks they are being used as leverage...

Austin is now one of the top ten cities in the U.S. with the worst traffic.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 16, 2020, 12:17:18 pm
Which airline was it a few years ago that used the threat of moving to Tulsa as leverage against the city they wanted more concessions from?

Boeing? I don't remember any actual Airline ever discussing moving to Tulsa. That was just the Dreamliner production, which in hindsight given all of Boeing's problems wasn't as big of a loss. I don't think at the end of the day they really got more out of Washington to keep operations there, and really all we offered them was to build their plant for them which they already had most of what they needed already in Everett. So it wasn't as appealing of an offer to uproot everything to move to Tulsa than most probably thought it was.

The only reason I'm hopeful is if they really are considering the Navistar Bus Plant. There's not a site in Austin that could offer them the same appeal on a logistics basis (directly on the airport, directly on a rail line which is critical to auto plants, and near a port). The sites they've looked at in Austin are in Hutto and Jarrell for reference, so north of Georgetown and south of Temple/Killeen. Not exactly the 'cool' part of Austin. From a talent prospective and appeal side Austin is likely the winner, but Tesla does have a history of not being afraid to locate operations in non-primary MSA's (Reno and Buffalo) and they could acquire 'talent' in Tulsa for a lot cheaper than in Austin. Oklahoma did pass an auto manufacturing tax credit in the last few years which would give them $5,000 per employee. So Oklahoma can offer up a competitive incentive package. 

Tulsa is at least getting a lot of press out of it to be named a 'finalist' even if we're being used as leverage. There was a significant increase of relocations scouting for most cities named as finalist for Amazon from other firms. Hopefully even if Tulsa isn't picked for the site we can use it as a positive.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 18, 2020, 11:33:35 am
This showed up on the OKCTalk.com forum:

May 15, 2020

Tesla’s next factory is going to be in Austin, Texas, and it’s going to happen quickly: https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/ (https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/)

Hope there is no validity to this report.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on May 18, 2020, 01:20:05 pm
^I mean, everyone is rushing to discount Tulsa immediately. If they did indeed come here, then that means we are in some kind of consideration even if it is an outside chance. electrek.co is claiming to have the initial scoop, but apparently Tesla themselves clarified that they hadn't decided yet and Tulsa was still in the running?

Sure, they are probably still trying to use us as leverage, but Austin is pretty darn expensive and as I understand it Tesla isn't allowed to sell directly in Texas currently? Oklahoma doesn't have a lot of stuff going for it intrinsically, but Tulsa is no slouch and both Tulsa and OK will do whatever they can to attract Tesla whereas Texas might be a bit more picky. With Musk's ambitious goals and crazy attitude, I can see Austin being much more tricky to build in than Tulsa.

Then again I just looked through some other articles and they pointed out that Musk has been in Austin recently and posted a bunch of Texas stuff. There are rumors they have already closed on a property out in a field outside of Hutto TX, which is the far north part of the Austin metro.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 18, 2020, 03:53:04 pm
This showed up on the OKCTalk.com forum:

May 15, 2020

Tesla’s next factory is going to be in Austin, Texas, and it’s going to happen quickly: https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/ (https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/)



Im pretty sure they read it here first. ::)



Tulsa in the running?

The reports started with Electrek, a pro-Tesla site whose co-founder Fred Lambert has good connections inside the company. Just before 3pm Eastern time, Lambert reported that Tesla had settled on Austin, Texas as the site of its next factory.

Hours after Electrek's story ran, three news organizations—TechCrunch, CNBC, and the Associated Press—all published stories stating that Tesla was still considering Tulsa, Oklahoma.

"A final decision has not been made, but Austin and Tulsa are among the finalists," Techcrunch's Kirsten Korosec writes, citing "multiple sources."

Lambert accused Tesla of feeding these stories to rival news organizations. I don't know if he's right, but it's not hard to imagine why Tesla would want to avoid tipping its hand. The threat to pick another location would give Tesla leverage in negotiations with Texas and Austin officials. We've asked Tesla for comment on the conflicting reports and will update this story if the company responds.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/05/report-tesla-plans-to-build-a-new-car-factory-in-texas/



So after @FredericLambert 's exclusive that Tesla chose Austin. Tesla reached out to not 1 or 2 but at least 3 different news outlets to say they were still considering Tulsa (LOL?!)
https://mobile.twitter.com/FredericLambert/status/1261414416886624259


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 18, 2020, 06:07:35 pm
We're still pulling for Tulsa.  Convinced that nothing is official until an official announcement has been made.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 18, 2020, 07:15:48 pm
Either way to be considered is a step in the right direction and evidence Tulsa can compete with larger cities for these types of jobs.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 19, 2020, 11:01:54 am
https://www.cybertruckbutts.com/

The people who made the big fu*king field website are at it again....


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 19, 2020, 01:38:47 pm
If the censor-bot munges this URL then make an educated guess:

https://www.bigfuckingfield.com/


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 20, 2020, 08:17:28 am
I know some don’t like the face but I personally think it’s pretty creative.  How long will this stay up there, until they make a final decision?

 https://ktul.com/news/local/golden-driller-transformed-into-elon-musk (https://ktul.com/news/local/golden-driller-transformed-into-elon-musk)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 20, 2020, 08:26:39 am
There was a rumor on Reddit that Elon was going to be in Tulsa today to meet with the mayor. Most likely nothing more than a baseless rumor and someone trying to stir up excitement, but i'll keep my hopes high on the off chance that it's true 🤣


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on May 20, 2020, 08:45:07 am
lol, the face may be where I draw the line. Now we are groveling at the feet of Elon.

I wouldn't doubt he would pay a visit to acknowledge the recognition and let us down easy. Probably just a rumor that he is visiting today though.

Now how can we shift this energy into attracting more likely corporate entities to Tulsa/OK?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: AdamsHall on May 20, 2020, 09:13:13 am
lol, the face may be where I draw the line. Now we are groveling at the feet of Elon.

I wouldn't doubt he would pay a visit to acknowledge the recognition and let us down easy. Probably just a rumor that he is visiting today though.

Now how can we shift this energy into attracting more likely corporate entities to Tulsa/OK?

Like most, I anticipate Tulsa is being used to get more bene's from Austin/TX.  That said, this will not be Tesla's last factory/facility that they construct, so if we are really #2 and the HQ goes to DFW, then we should also have a good shot at future facility.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 20, 2020, 09:42:54 am
Like most, I anticipate Tulsa is being used to get more bene's from Austin/TX.  That said, this will not be Tesla's last factory/facility that they construct, so if we are really #2 and the HQ goes to DFW, then we should also have a good shot at future facility.

That would be pretty cool to see TX/OK as a major electric car manufacturing and R&D hub.  Similar to how the upper midwest was to car and auto parts manufacturers 50 years ago


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 20, 2020, 09:54:26 pm
That would be pretty cool to see TX/OK as a major electric car manufacturing and R&D hub.  Similar to how the upper midwest was to car and auto parts manufacturers 50 years ago


Would be ironic.   Electric car manufacturing in one state that abhors the concept!

Kind of like Okemah and northeast Oklahoma paying homage to Woody Guthrie!



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 21, 2020, 12:40:07 pm
lol, the face may be where I draw the line. Now we are groveling at the feet of Elon.

The face is pretty grotesque...

Isnt it still illegal in Oklahoma to buy a Tesla directly thru the company?  That sure isnt in our favor.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Dspike on May 21, 2020, 02:13:59 pm
Yes. But also true in Texas and probably not too relevant to whether either city has the capacity/workforce/incentives for a large manufacturing facility.

https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/why-its-hard-to-buy-a-tesla-in-texas/


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 21, 2020, 08:30:13 pm
The face is pretty grotesque...

Isnt it still illegal in Oklahoma to buy a Tesla directly thru the company?  That sure isnt in our favor.


You know that will be one of the first things discussed and agreed to.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 23, 2020, 05:57:23 pm
If Telsa were to commit to Oklahoma, you know the legislature would make the necessary changes to allow customers to buy direct from the factory.   I've never seen a situation in which Oklahoma didn't act to make changes to accommodate economic development.

Wouldn't rule out Tulsa acquiring the Telsa facillty.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on May 23, 2020, 08:41:47 pm
In a dystopian bid to lure Tesla’s Cybertruck Gigafactory to Tulsa, the Oklahoma state monument—a seven-story, 22-ton statue of an oil worker called The Golden Driller—has been redesigned as an effigy of Elon Musk. The likeness of X Æ A-12’s multibillionaire father, now called The Driller ‘Golden Elon,’ is one of the largest free-standing statues in the U.S.

“Tulsa is a city that doesn’t stifle entrepreneurs - we revere them!” Tulsa Mayor G.T. Bynum wrote on Facebook, prompting an onslaught of enraged replies. “Golden @elonmusk is now the 6th-tallest statue in the United States. #TulsaforTesla @Tesla.”

The gargantuan statue, unveiled earlier this week at a community event and on Bynum’s social media, now features a red Tesla logo painted on its chest. The Driller’s 48-foot belt, which once read “TULSA,” was changed to read “TESLA.” If you squint, the statue’s head now looks like a low-budget YouTube cartoon of Musk. “I was told onsite it was an ‘Elon Musk Face Skin,’” one worker wrote on Facebook. “It went on like a fruit roll-up.”

“It’s this weird, ghostly, white mask-like thing,” said Lucas Wrench, a 28-year-old Tulsa Artist Fellow, who runs an arts space called OK #1. “It sort of looks like if you FaceSwapped with some creature. I just couldn’t believe it. I’m shocked at how transparent it is—the kind of a symbol they created in putting this enormous billionaire, literally a giant towering billionaire in Tulsa—the lack of self-awareness. They’re groveling.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/this-giant-monument-to-tesla-billionaire-elon-musk-has-tulsa-residents-furious


The move is so absurd that one hardly knows how to react, but turning a representation of a worker (even though it was originally built by an oil company in the 50s) into an effigy of a union-busting factory owner coercing people to return to the line during a pandemic is probably not a good look.
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/dyz8mw/tulsa-oklahoma-unveiled-a-7-story-tall-statue-of-elon-musk


The statue in question is the Golden Driller, a 43,500 pound likeness of an oil worker — the irony doesn’t escape us
https://futurism.com/the-byte/7-story-statue-elon-musk-looks-absolutely-terrible

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/22/14/28705014-0-image-a-16_1590153151521.jpg)



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 24, 2020, 11:37:12 am

Tulsa IMO has a very good chance of securing the Telsa Plant.

If Telsa were going to Texas, you bet they would have already selected Austin.   Texas isn't going to give any more incentives to lure Telsa and they know it.  They are playing this game to see what they can get from Oklahoma.  They know Oklahoma's track record on tax incentives thru the old Oklahoma City GM plant debacle.

If we were to get this plant; it will be great for all of Oklahoma particularly the Tulsa, Muskogee and Bartlesville (Northeast Quadrant) would reap the benefits of employment and support from this huge mega plant.
(https://www.joc.com/sites/default/files/field_feature_image/catoosa.jpg)

Let's not forget; Tulsa is on a barge canal transportation system Ports of Catoosa/Muskogee, an extra alternative that Austin doesn't have.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 24, 2020, 03:23:11 pm
I don’t know how much, if any, the port plays into this but it certainly doesn’t hurt and it is something they don’t have in Austin/central TX.  Rail and highway access seem like they would be more important.  So that begs the question if Tulsa did land a plant where would it go?  Assuming the Navistar plant is off the table.. ;)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 24, 2020, 06:14:45 pm
I don’t know how much, if any, the port plays into this but it certainly doesn’t hurt and it is something they don’t have in Austin/central TX.  Rail and highway access seem like they would be more important.  So that begs the question if Tulsa did land a plant where would it go?  Assuming the Navistar plant is off the table.. ;)

Isn't GKFF giving away free land in the peoria mohawk industrial park? That's probably an option.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 24, 2020, 09:21:51 pm
Isn't GKFF giving away free land in the peoria mohawk industrial park? That's probably an option.

Yes but it doesn’t currently have rail access.  I would think out by the airport would be a better location - better air, rail and highway access.

Peoria-Mohawk
(https://base.imgix.net/files/base/ebm/industryweek/image/2019/05/industryweek_32846_peoriamohawk_1_0.png?auto=format&dpr=2&fit=crop&h=432&w=768)

Airport industrial options
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/4f/04fafe97-ea84-59d8-a8f6-71c4845a550e/523d9864cfa50.image.jpg?resize=500%2C723)



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 25, 2020, 11:06:57 am
Since the GKFF land doesn't have rail access that would not be an option. Direct rail access to a major line is critical to these facilities.

The other most likely spot outside of the bus plant or vacant land near the airport would be the former Black Fox site that PSO transferred to the Port Authority. It has direct access to Union Pacific through a rail spur built for Sofidel and the Port Authority is building barge access there so they'd have direct loading capabilities on the water and rail there.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 25, 2020, 03:45:07 pm
Since the GKFF land doesn't have rail access that would not be an option. Direct rail access to a major line is critical to these facilities.

The other most likely spot outside of the bus plant or vacant land near the airport would be the former Black Fox site that PSO transferred to the Port Authority. It has direct access to Union Pacific through a rail spur built for Sofidel and the Port Authority is building barge access there so they'd have direct loading capabilities on the water and rail there.

Black Fox would be a good location for those reasons.  It would certainly be a shot in the arm for Inola and likely would result in a lot of new housing and development in the New Tulsa area.  I would think extending 41st St with a new interchange at the Creek Turnpike and a new bridge over the Verdigris would be needed if something that large was built there.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 25, 2020, 11:46:52 pm
Something else to think about with the SpaceX launch soon... Jim Bridenstine I'm sure has had a conversation or two with Elon. Wonder if that would give Tulsa some favor-ability politically given his ambitions for SpaceX.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 26, 2020, 10:15:01 am
So evidently Tesla officials visited two sites, was it ever known which ones they visited?  It seems like Navistar checks a lot of boxes but it wouldn't be a very good look for the city to kick them out.  Spirit Aerosystems also uses part of the old bomber factory. 

I wonder if the Cherokee Industrial Park has a site big enough with rail access?  That would be the best location IMO, more central to existing neighborhoods in Tulsa and would likely pull Owasso closer to Hwy 75.  So much new development in Tulsa County has been in the southern parts it would be great to see more in the northern area.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: owenix on May 26, 2020, 04:14:08 pm
Looking at the gigafactory outside of reno I don't see any kind of multimodal transport. Odd for an auto manufacturer, but I think the vision is battery powered self driving trucks.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 26, 2020, 04:27:13 pm
Looking at the gigafactory outside of reno I don't see any kind of multimodal transport. Odd for an auto manufacturer, but I think the vision is battery powered self driving trucks.

The Reno plant only makes batteries (same as the Buffalo plant) that's why rail access wasn't as important, they don't make any cars there. Shanghai and Fremont are the only two plants for Tesla that make the actual vehicles. The plant they are looking at now will be larger than Reno/Buffalo and employ at least as many as the Fremont Plant which has about 10,000 employees. It will be producing the actual vehicles (CyberTruck and the Model Y) and almost every auto plant has direct rail access to the major line (Union Pacific, etc.)

The site in Austin (Hutto) was the runner up to Reno site. That's why a lot of people have zeroed in on thinking Austin has already landed the plant in the press. That's been the talk for a year at least of that's where the next Tesla plant would go.

So, in the long run I think that would bode well for us if we're the runner up and they do build on the Hutto site, Tulsa could very well be in line for the next plant they build. Just might be another 3-5 years down the road.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Red Arrow on May 26, 2020, 04:44:46 pm
So evidently Tesla officials visited two sites, was it ever known which ones they visited?  It seems like Navistar checks a lot of boxes but it wouldn't be a very good look for the city to kick them out.  Spirit Aerosystems also uses part of the old bomber factory. 

I wonder if the Cherokee Industrial Park has a site big enough with rail access?  That would be the best location IMO, more central to existing neighborhoods in Tulsa and would likely pull Owasso closer to Hwy 75.  So much new development in Tulsa County has been in the southern parts it would be great to see more in the northern area.

I would like to see development on the north side rather than out here in the south.  Traffic on S Memorial is horrible, even with Covid19.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 26, 2020, 06:56:20 pm
It makes the most sense for it to be located north with rail access near the airport or port or out by Owasso where Whirlpool/Verizon/Honeywell/Macys are.

The only decent south location I can think of with land and rail access would be in Jenks near Kimberly Clark, but there are so many neighborhoods around them now I'm sure there would be a zoning fight. And traffic would be awful, they would have to fix the US75 stop light at 141st in Glenpool. Maybe Coweta?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Red Arrow on May 26, 2020, 08:26:10 pm
It makes the most sense for it to be located north with rail access near the airport or port or out by Owasso where Whirlpool/Verizon/Honeywell/Macys are.

The only decent south location I can think of with land and rail access would be in Jenks near Kimberly Clark, but there are so many neighborhoods around them now I'm sure there would be a zoning fight. And traffic would be awful, they would have to fix the US75 stop light at 141st in Glenpool. Maybe Coweta?

Anything that big built near Kimberly Clark would make driving on S Memorial look like Los Angeles.  No thanks, it's bad enough already.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 26, 2020, 09:08:27 pm
Anything that big built near Kimberly Clark would make driving on S Memorial look like Los Angeles.  No thanks, it's bad enough already.

I assume traffic would go west to US-75, but not much better.

And I have said that the stupid west side Gilcrease turnpike should have been built from the US-169/Creek Turnpike split to go south across the river to relieve traffic on Memorial.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 26, 2020, 11:11:17 pm
I assume traffic would go west to US-75, but not much better.

And I have said that the stupid west side Gilcrease turnpike should have been built from the US-169/Creek Turnpike split to go south across the river to relieve traffic on Memorial.

Is the Yale bridge proposal officially dead?  Seems like that would help ease traffic moving between Tulsa and Jenks/Bixby.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 27, 2020, 03:31:56 pm
I guess Stitt went to Florida for the SpaceX launch and to meet up with Elon? Lol

https://twitter.com/GovStitt/status/1265746778734944259?s=20


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on May 28, 2020, 09:41:02 am
I guess Stitt went to Florida for the SpaceX launch and to meet up with Elon? Lol

https://twitter.com/GovStitt/status/1265746778734944259?s=20

Hey, if we are trying to sell Tulsa and OK, this is the kind of stuff you do.  And man, whether or not a person is in favor of Tesla coming, some of the comments are embarrassing to the state.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 28, 2020, 10:23:04 am
I agree. If we're trying to get Tesla here, we should go all out in our efforts. I'm encouraged that we're still getting face time and publicity... if it was a lock for Austin I wouldn't think we'd still be around.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on May 28, 2020, 10:37:42 am
I agree. If we're trying to get Tesla here, we should go all out in our efforts. I'm encouraged that we're still getting face time and publicity... if it was a lock for Austin I wouldn't think we'd still be around.

I don't think they have decided on Austin.  Think about what Texas has to offer and the fact that Austin is now becoming a victim of its own aggressive growth (traffic).  

IMO Telsa wants Tulsa to throw in a few more incentives and perks.  Telsa isn't going to get anymore perks and incentives from Austin...  ...they are trying  to get more from Tulsa, hoping the State of Oklahoma will throw in the kitchen sink.

That explains Governor Stitt's recent meeting with Elon Musk.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 28, 2020, 02:32:42 pm
Interesting information in this article: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gov-kevin-stitt-and-local-officials-make-pitch-for-tulsa-during-meeting-with-elon-musk/article_3f72c855-4794-52d7-8439-6cc4870fd7c7.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

I figured the concern with Tulsa, as it typically is, is about workforce and the lack of thousands of available skilled employees. Elon apparently has that concern when it comes to engineers.

This article also kind of reads like Tulsa may not be the frontrunner or perhaps Elon just isn't focused on site selection right now:

Quote
Kouplen said he asked Musk to come to Tulsa before making a decision and Musk said he would consider it.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 28, 2020, 02:48:41 pm
I thought this was interesting considering all the hand-wringing about it by some Tulsans

Quote
He said Musk asked about the Golden Driller, and a recent attention-grabbing  effort in which Musk's likeness was painted on the giant figure's face and the Tesla symbol onto its belt buckle.

Musk wanted to know if it was real or photo shopped, Kouplen said.

“He thought that was pretty cool,” Kouplen said.

Regarding the lack of skilled engineers, that has never hurt AA or the other aerospace companies that have thousands of employees in Tulsa.  While we don't have a major state university in the city TU has a well-known engineering school and we are 1.5 hours from OSU and 2 hours from both OU and UofArkansas combined that's over 65k students.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 28, 2020, 07:29:24 pm
Well I guess the Navistar/IC Bus plant is off the table

 https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/city-of-tulsa-ic-bus-announce-new-20-year-agreement-for-bus-manufacturing-plant-301067069.html (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/city-of-tulsa-ic-bus-announce-new-20-year-agreement-for-bus-manufacturing-plant-301067069.html)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on May 29, 2020, 12:38:26 pm
I thought this was interesting considering all the hand-wringing about it by some Tulsans

Regarding the lack of skilled engineers, that has never hurt AA or the other aerospace companies that have thousands of employees in Tulsa.  While we don't have a major state university in the city TU has a well-known engineering school and we are 1.5 hours from OSU and 2 hours from both OU and UofArkansas combined that's over 65k students.

Agreed. Tulsa and the surrounding area(s) would be more than able to supply the needs for engineers and skilled technical workers. But, so would Austin.  Between UT and TAMU (only two hours away), there are over 100K students.

I just did quick LinkedIn search (which won't be exact, but close enough). Most of the Tesla employees come from where you would expect.  CA schools and a number of the more elite national universities (MIT, Purdue, GA Tech, etc...) make up the bulk of the universities. But also, interestingly, there are 115 people from TAMU.  That is more than USC, and close to MIT.   It's also surprising because there are only 49 from UT Austin.  Comparatively, there are 14 from OSU, 15 from OU, 8 from UofA.  Not sure what the connection of TAMU to Tesla is, but that is high number compared to other regional schools.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 29, 2020, 01:49:19 pm
Agreed. Tulsa and the surrounding area(s) would be more than able to supply the needs for engineers and skilled technical workers. But, so would Austin.  Between UT and TAMU (only two hours away), there are over 100K students.

I just did quick LinkedIn search (which won't be exact, but close enough). Most of the Tesla employees come from where you would expect.  CA schools and a number of the more elite national universities (MIT, Purdue, GA Tech, etc...) make up the bulk of the universities. But also, interestingly, there are 115 people from TAMU.  That is more than USC, and close to MIT.   It's also surprising because there are only 49 from UT Austin.  Comparatively, there are 14 from OSU, 15 from OU, 8 from UofA.  Not sure what the connection of TAMU to Tesla is, but that is high number compared to other regional schools.



Texas A&M has a very good (and large) mechanical engineering program.  It's slightly more of a stretch but both KU and KSU have strong engineering programs; KU is 4 hours and KSU is 4.5 hours away.  Both have sizable alumni bases in Tulsa.

If we're not selected maybe this gets the state to get serious about expanding OU-Tulsa and OSU-Tulsa because this is a major deficiency for the Tulsa area.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 29, 2020, 09:20:19 pm
I thought this was interesting considering all the hand-wringing about it by some Tulsans

Regarding the lack of skilled engineers, that has never hurt AA or the other aerospace companies that have thousands of employees in Tulsa.  While we don't have a major state university in the city TU has a well-known engineering school and we are 1.5 hours from OSU and 2 hours from both OU and UofArkansas combined that's over 65k students.


Just some basic background info;

In 2018, OSU had 831 graduates in the school of Engineering, Architecture and Technology (260 Mechanical Engineers).   Seems like I remember there are 'about' 25,000 full time at Stillwater and another 10,000 spread around the other campus', many of them part time.  (35,000 is OSU stated number.)  That is a pretty small number of STEM, but on a par with national population of STEM people working nationwide. 

Sadly, Oklahoma doesn't have the capacity to hire anywhere near 800 per year.  We lose a lot outside of OK.  Rebound gave some numbers about Tesla employee schools.  I would like to know current number of STEMs they employ.  Guy I worked with got interview with them in CA a few years ago (OSU grad) and at the time, I think he said they had 3 or 4 thousand technology types.

OSU has a great Engineering school!  We don't get all the recognition - or the support - we deserve for it, both in state and nationwide.

Bottom line, Tesla would still be trying to import people to work there.   And it would be an uphill battle.







Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 30, 2020, 07:22:40 am
Honest question, how many people actually working in the plant have engineering degrees?  Aren’t most assembly line workers that you could recruit from Tulsa Tech or Tulsa Welding School similar to many of the employees working at the AA maintenance base?  I understand electric cars are somewhat different but all 10k+ workers won’t need college degrees let alone mechanical engineering degrees.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on May 30, 2020, 02:14:08 pm
Honest question, how many people actually working in the plant have engineering degrees?  Aren’t most assembly line workers that you could recruit from Tulsa Tech or Tulsa Welding School similar to many of the employees working at the AA maintenance base?  I understand electric cars are somewhat different but all 10k+ workers won’t need college degrees let alone mechanical engineering degrees.

They will need much less training than the people at AA. It's more like the employees at the bus factory.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 30, 2020, 09:32:27 pm
Honest question, how many people actually working in the plant have engineering degrees?  Aren’t most assembly line workers that you could recruit from Tulsa Tech or Tulsa Welding School similar to many of the employees working at the AA maintenance base?  I understand electric cars are somewhat different but all 10k+ workers won’t need college degrees let alone mechanical engineering degrees.


That's the question I have about the CA Tesla plant. Should be somewhat similar.  Rebound gave some numbers - couple hundred engineering types from the schools he mentioned.  Friend said there were several thousand when he went there...whatever that is.  Have not heard any numbers since.

If it is only a thousand needed here, that could still be a problem. 



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on May 31, 2020, 08:47:39 am
Texas A&M has a very good (and large) mechanical engineering program.  It's slightly more of a stretch but both KU and KSU have strong engineering programs; KU is 4 hours and KSU is 4.5 hours away.  Both have sizable alumni bases in Tulsa.

If we're not selected maybe this gets the state to get serious about expanding OU-Tulsa and OSU-Tulsa because this is a major deficiency for the Tulsa area.

Not one of the engineering programs mentioned in this thread to feed a Tulsa Tesla plant is ranked  in the top 100 by US News - Not the University of Tulsa, not OSU, not OU, not Arkansas, nor KU or KSU.

There are seven top 100 engineering programs within comparable distances from Hutto,Texas


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on May 31, 2020, 03:54:41 pm
I saw a post on Reddit yesterday about a guy whose relative works for a company that has been asked to bid on a "Tesla building" in Tulsa. Hasn't been given any further info on it yet. Could be a showroom, service center, etc. Timing doesn't seem right for it to be the factory. Still interesting though


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on May 31, 2020, 04:29:18 pm
Not one of the engineering programs mentioned in this thread to feed a Tulsa Tesla plant is ranked  in the top 100 by US News.

There are seven top 100 engineering programs within comparable distances from Hutto,Texas

Again most of these assembly line workers don’t need college degrees.  I would put our skilled workforce in oil & gas components and aerospace ahead of anything Austin/Hutto offers.  Do all Tesla engineers need to be from Top 100 engineering schools?  Many would relocate from CA anyway, and I’m sure would be happy to move to an affordable state.  The rest would probably be a mix of the regional schools and Texas/Colorado.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on June 01, 2020, 11:35:00 am
Not sure where this website came from, but worth sharing around. https://www.tulsafortesla.com/


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 01, 2020, 02:03:29 pm
Again most of these assembly line workers don’t need college degrees.  I would put our skilled workforce in oil & gas components and aerospace ahead of anything Austin/Hutto offers.  Do all Tesla engineers need to be from Top 100 engineering schools?  Many would relocate from CA anyway, and I’m sure would be happy to move to an affordable state.  The rest would probably be a mix of the regional schools and Texas/Colorado.

You are right, the vast majority of these jobs will only require a high school/GED education and they are even willing to hire people without those if they have experience in similar type of jobs. The amount of the highly skilled workers they will need to recruit is a much smaller piece of the pie. Most of assembly line jobs pay $40k/year starting out full-time. That's where we have a strong case to make against even Austin, $40k in Tulsa goes a lot further to having a nicer life than in Austin.

Doubling the size of OU/OSU/TU likely wouldn't make much of a dent for a economic development project of this size. College pipelines are critical to smaller and more regional sized firms to grow and are important to the long term viability of large companies. It will be important to add/beef up programs to fill roles for Tesla long term if they do locate here to fill job openings for natural turnover/growth, which is slower and more stable than an initial scale up. This is a much smaller concern than the initial scale up phase, that's where a lot of the risk plays out.

Really it all boils down to do companies think they can recruit to Tulsa. For any major expansion or relocation of over a thousand employees, outside of a small handful of metros like DC, NYC, San Fran, etc. they are going to be a net importer of people to scale up to a level of employment quickly (within a year or two). This is why places like Austin, Nashville, Denver, Salt Lake City, Portland (medium sized metros) have been so successful is because they invested heavily on quality of life programs and built the blocks of a city people wanted to relocate, which in return helped them be a net importer of graduates (not just from local universities) and gave companies the confidence they can fill job positions in those markets and companies followed. 

Frankly, that's why the GKFF remote worker program is such a huge marketing piece that some don't even realize. We can now go to a company and say we had 20,000 people apply to move to Tulsa last year, that helps reduce some of that fear of hiring/talent pipelines of being able to bring in a thousand or more employees with a large portion of those probably being from surrounding markets like Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas, etc. Places like Dallas/Houston have ate Oklahoma's lunch in this regard marketing to companies looking to expand. It's really astonishing how many people I talk to in Dallas, Houston and Austin that moved from Oklahoma. They didn't build those markets off UT and A&M grads only - they built it off OSU, OU, LSU, U of A, KU, KSU and people of those states through showing that companies had the ability to pull in people from a regional footprint.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on June 01, 2020, 04:44:13 pm
Congratulations!

Tesla Delivery and Service Center. Going in at 6010 South 129th Avenue East. Currently set to bid the middle of June. Shows to be 23,718 square feet.

OKCTalk.com
will release details later...  https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122371#post1122371 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122371#post1122371)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on June 01, 2020, 04:46:20 pm
I saw a post on Reddit yesterday about a guy whose relative works for a company that has been asked to bid on a "Tesla building" in Tulsa. Hasn't been given any further info on it yet. Could be a showroom, service center, etc. Timing doesn't seem right for it to be the factory. Still interesting though

There is a Tesla Service Center planned for 61st & 129th E Ave.  It's going an existing building with the build-out starting later this summer.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on June 01, 2020, 05:14:00 pm
Telsa Center via OKCTalk.com

(https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla4.jpg)

(https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla2.jpg)

(https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tesla3.jpg)

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122411#post1122411 (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43547&page=2&p=1122411#post1122411)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2020, 08:19:52 pm
There is a Tesla Service Center planned for 61st & 129th E Ave.  It's going an existing building with the build-out starting later this summer.


That will be great use of that building!   Goodwill Industries built that a couple years ago and was planning some kind of facility there.  Their situation apparently changed and it went up for sale quite a while ago.  Good to see it get filled up.  


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on June 23, 2020, 01:28:32 pm
https://austonia.com/amp/elon-musk-tesla-2646237196?utm_campaign=RebelMouse&share_id=5619951&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=Austonia&__twitter_impression=true

Not a lot of information coming out on Tesla's decision. However based on what is being reported it seems Austin is probably the first choice for Tesla.

Last week Elon tweeted that nothing has been finalized and multiple options are still being considered.

It seems Tulsa is in fact being used as leverage, or at least a backup plan, to expedite things in Austin.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on June 23, 2020, 02:55:49 pm
https://austonia.com/amp/elon-musk-tesla-2646237196?utm_campaign=RebelMouse&share_id=5619951&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=Austonia&__twitter_impression=true

Not a lot of information coming out on Tesla's decision. However based on what is being reported it seems Austin is probably the first choice for Tesla.

Last week Elon tweeted that nothing has been finalized and multiple options are still being considered.

It seems Tulsa is in fact being used as leverage, or at least a backup plan, to expedite things in Austin.

Combined with the story in the Business Journals, it's looking like Austin is the first and second choice (with the Hutto site looking like the runner-up again).
 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on June 23, 2020, 04:17:53 pm
I think this process has put Tulsa firmly on their radar for future expansion either Tesla or SpaceX.  Just need to continue building momentum and not lay up.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 23, 2020, 09:35:24 pm
https://austonia.com/amp/elon-musk-tesla-2646237196?utm_campaign=RebelMouse&share_id=5619951&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=Austonia&__twitter_impression=true

Not a lot of information coming out on Tesla's decision. However based on what is being reported it seems Austin is probably the first choice for Tesla.

Last week Elon tweeted that nothing has been finalized and multiple options are still being considered.

It seems Tulsa is in fact being used as leverage, or at least a backup plan, to expedite things in Austin.



Never was any doubt about that leverage thing.   And last weekend's coronafest would have definitely sealed the deal if there had been a chance.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on June 24, 2020, 09:15:27 am
Never was any doubt about that leverage thing.   And last weekend's coronafest would have definitely sealed the deal if there had been a chance.

I'm going to disagree with the "coronafest" outcome.  I think Tulsa handled itself well.  While I think the rally was a stupid idea in the first place, that wasn't really our call.  With all the various factions in play, it could have gone South pretty hard.  Instead, we took a difficult situation and showed that events like this can be handled without extremism and violence.  Overall, I think it was a positive for Tulsa. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on June 24, 2020, 10:17:16 am
I'm going to disagree with the "coronafest" outcome.  I think Tulsa handled itself well.  While I think the rally was a stupid idea in the first place, that wasn't really our call.  With all the various factions in play, it could have gone South pretty hard.  Instead, we took a difficult situation and showed that events like this can be handled without extremism and violence.  Overall, I think it was a positive for Tulsa. 

Agree.  If there is anything to learn or improve on it is that we need more and better higher education opportunities and to raise our profile as a city on the rise.  Elon himself said he was concerned about this:

Quote
“He has some concerns about the ability to attract enough engineers into Tulsa just because he is not familiar with Tulsa and we don’t have a University of Texas here in town that pumps out thousands of engineers,” Commerce and Workforce Development Secretary Sean Kouplen said Thursday.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on June 26, 2020, 07:28:23 am
Not over yet. Interesting quote from this article from yesterday:

Quote
I am in constant contact with Tesla executives and they have assured me that there has been no decision made yet,” he said. “They are simply going through the same process with Austin that they went through with Tulsa, and once they have accumulated all of the data and all of the facts they will make their decision.

If Tesla had made a decision I don't think they'd be reaching out to the secretary of commerce on the daily unless they were seeking additional incentives, and the state has not given any indication that they're changing anything they've offered.

I still think Austin is probably the first choice, but it seems Tulsa is still legitimately being considered.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/dont-let-the-silence-fool-you-tulsa-still-in-the-running-for-tesla-factory-state/article_29961172-5690-57ce-ad87-d7b8e1f2068d.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 26, 2020, 06:46:52 pm
Not over yet. Interesting quote from this article from yesterday:

If Tesla had made a decision I don't think they'd be reaching out to the secretary of commerce on the daily unless they were seeking additional incentives, and the state has not given any indication that they're changing anything they've offered.

I still think Austin is probably the first choice, but it seems Tulsa is still legitimately being considered.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/dont-let-the-silence-fool-you-tulsa-still-in-the-running-for-tesla-factory-state/article_29961172-5690-57ce-ad87-d7b8e1f2068d.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

I agree, it's not over yet. I don't think the national media guys understand how incentive packages work in Texas. The vote that happened in Austin was just an approval to offer Tesla certain things. It's in no way binding and is the process they have to follow for any deal. Dallas did a similar vote for Amazon, didn't mean HQ2 was going to Dallas. The main guy who broke the story was pissed about being discredited by Tesla so he's hell bent on publishing 'stories' to say he was right all along.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on June 26, 2020, 07:35:43 pm
I agree, it's not over yet. I don't think the national media guys understand how incentive packages work in Texas. The vote that happened in Austin was just an approval to offer Tesla certain things. It's in no way binding and is the process they have to follow for any deal. Dallas did a similar vote for Amazon, didn't mean HQ2 was going to Dallas. The main guy who broke the story was pissed about being discredited by Tesla so he's hell bent on publishing 'stories' to say he was right all along.

Yeah I, like most, were growing concerned with how quiet things got then suddenly everything came out about Austin. Then state officials are still claiming they're in contact daily with Tesla officials, which i think if nothing else tells us we're still in the running to some degree.

I will say Tulsa seems to be good at keeping quiet with this sort of thing. Think of big announcements like WPX, American Airlines, etc. No one knew it was happening until they scheduled a press conference the same day lol.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Conan71 on June 29, 2020, 08:36:48 pm
Maybe Tulsa will finally sprout a set in getting a four year state university with a heavy emphasis on engineering and tech.  UT Austin has got to be a major consideration in their decision as far as a fertile bed of future employees aside from all the other tech there.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 01, 2020, 05:29:09 pm
Looks like Elon will be planning a trip to Tulsa...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1278451464562753537?s=20

If nothing else, this is a huge plus for a potential future factory, if Tulsa is not chosen for this one.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 01, 2020, 05:37:31 pm
Also, interesting to note, Austin and Travis County have been considering shutting back down because of their recent spike in COVID cases. If I recall correctly, county officials weren't holding any meetings due to COVID, and called a special meeting just to discuss Tesla incentives.

From what I've gathered, Austin officials dragging their feet is what cost them the last factory. People have speculated that Tulsa is Tesla's backup plan if Austin and Travis County officials can't get the process expedited.

It could be possible that if Travis County shut down again and couldn't give Tesla what they want in the timeliness they want it, that Tesla chooses Tulsa.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on July 01, 2020, 06:28:08 pm
Also, interesting to note, Austin and Travis County have been considering shutting back down because of their recent spike in COVID cases. If I recall correctly, county officials weren't holding any meetings due to COVID, and called a special meeting just to discuss Tesla incentives.

From what I've gathered, Austin officials dragging their feet is what cost them the last factory. People have speculated that Tulsa is Tesla's backup plan if Austin and Travis County officials can't get the process expedited.

It could be possible that if Travis County shut down again and couldn't give Tesla what they want in the timeliness they want it, that Tesla chooses Tulsa.



All we have to do is out-Texas Texas.

 "There are more important things than living. And that's saving this country for my children and my grandchildren and saving this country for all of us."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-reopening-economy-more-important-things-n1188911


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on July 01, 2020, 06:30:13 pm
Don't know if this comparion has been posted or not; however here goes...

'Don't let the silence fool you. Tulsa still in the running for Tesla factory, state official says'

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/dont-let-the-silence-fool-you-tulsa-still-in-the-running-for-tesla-factory-state/article_29961172-5690-57ce-ad87-d7b8e1f2068d.html#1 (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/dont-let-the-silence-fool-you-tulsa-still-in-the-running-for-tesla-factory-state/article_29961172-5690-57ce-ad87-d7b8e1f2068d.html#1)



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on July 01, 2020, 06:34:17 pm


All we have to do is out-Texas Texas.

 "There are more important things than living. And that's saving this country for my children and my grandchildren and saving this country for all of us."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-reopening-economy-more-important-things-n1188911

Good post, Patric


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 01, 2020, 09:23:50 pm
Travis County is dragging its feet postponing approval of incentives to July 7.  The longer they drag on the better our chances IMO.

 https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/business/2020/06/30/travis-county-continues-tesla-deliberations-with-no-date-set-for-vote-on-economic-incentives/ (https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/business/2020/06/30/travis-county-continues-tesla-deliberations-with-no-date-set-for-vote-on-economic-incentives/)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 01, 2020, 09:53:04 pm
Travis County is dragging its feet postponing approval of incentives to July 7.  The longer they drag on the better our chances IMO.

 https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/business/2020/06/30/travis-county-continues-tesla-deliberations-with-no-date-set-for-vote-on-economic-incentives/ (https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/business/2020/06/30/travis-county-continues-tesla-deliberations-with-no-date-set-for-vote-on-economic-incentives/)

Oh wow I was under the impression they had already approved the incentive package. From what i've been told Tesla has every intention of making the announcement in July. That article says the next meetings for discussion are scheduled for July 7th and 10th.

Wouldn't be surprised if Tesla gave them a deadline to decide or they'd go elsewhere.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 01, 2020, 10:13:43 pm
Oh wow I was under the impression they had already approved the incentive package. From what i've been told Tesla has every intention of making the announcement in July. That article says the next meetings for discussion are scheduled for July 7th and 10th.

Wouldn't be surprised if Tesla gave them a deadline to decide or they'd go elsewhere.

July 7th is for the County incentives.

July 10th is for ISD property tax incentives (school district which account for usually about 50% or more of people's tax bill in most areas of Texas). This is really the critical one, because  they tax personal property for businesses. So, for Tesla, the tax bill would be astronomical given the specialized equipment needed in the plant. Telsa officials said in the last meeting for the ISD that if this isn't approved they will not build the plant there. The other county incentives are probably just icing on the cake type thing.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: DowntownDan on July 02, 2020, 01:17:56 pm
Travis County is dragging its feet postponing approval of incentives to July 7.  The longer they drag on the better our chances IMO.

 https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/business/2020/06/30/travis-county-continues-tesla-deliberations-with-no-date-set-for-vote-on-economic-incentives/ (https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/business/2020/06/30/travis-county-continues-tesla-deliberations-with-no-date-set-for-vote-on-economic-incentives/)

"We are skeptical. Numerous studies have shown that local governments rarely if ever receive benefits commensurate with what incentives cost, and, despite what they say, businesses rarely if ever give incentives much weight when deciding where to locate," said local resident Michael Floyd, who spoke on behalf of Central Texas Interfaith."

Truth. We will surely give them whatever they want. Hell, we can just raise a tax and pay it directly to Elon Musk's account, because we are that desperate. But the last part is the difference. Austin has a highly educated workforce and major college. Tulsa has a bunch of people complaining about haircuts and chilis and teachers who had to literally walk to OKC for a modest raise. It's not even a close call imo that they'll choose Austin with whatever they give them.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 02, 2020, 10:51:46 pm
Austin does have the leg up on % of people with college degrees.  But you don’t need a college degree to work on the assembly line at an auto manufacturing plant.  Tulsa has the better workforce for this type of specialized manufacturing with our aerospace (AA, Spirit, NORDAM, etc), mechanical equipment (AAON, Whirlpool, etc) and oil & gas equipment (Baker Hughes, H&P, Process Mfr, Linde, etc) industries.  We have one of the best trade schools in the region and one of the top welding schools in the country. 

I’m sure the incentives deal will work in Texas’ favor but this type of operation is definitely in our wheelhouse.  I’m still wondering where they would put the factory here, is it the PSO Black Fox site?  Has Tesla put an offer on any property outside Tulsa like they have outside Austin?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 03, 2020, 06:05:27 pm
So apparently there's a Twitter account that tracks Elon/Spacex's private jet. I have no clue if this is legit, but according to this account it stopped in Tulsa today:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ElonJet/status/1279161173775171590


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 03, 2020, 07:01:18 pm
"Tulsa has a bunch of people complaining about haircuts and chilis and teachers who had to literally walk to OKC for a modest raise. It's not even a close call imo that they'll choose Austin with whatever they give them.

I think you confused Tulsa with Texas

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/texas-governor-closes-bars-lawsuit-protest
"Bar Lives Matter" Rally in Austin

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/lawsuit-filed-against-gov-abbott-for-face-mask-order/2400685/
Lawsuit by Texas Businesses against facemarks

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/politics/ted-cruz-texas-hair-salon-shelley-luther/index.html
Hair Salon owner arrested while opening business during shutdown, then Ted Cruz gets haircut there

Texas has just as many of these people as Oklahoma. The cities are just bigger, so it creates a 'perception' nationally that Texas is more liberal. I can tell you as someone who has to live here now it is not. Frankly, most Texans think their s*** doesn't stink so they're 10x more vocal about their "right" to do whatever they want here than I've ever experienced in Oklahoma.

Midtown Tulsa is just as liberal as Austin, it's just smaller given the MSA is half the size. There's not much difference between Round Rock/Georgetown as there is Broken Arrow/Owasso.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 04, 2020, 08:30:25 am
So apparently there's a Twitter account that tracks Elon/Spacex's private jet. I have no clue if this is legit, but according to this account it stopped in Tulsa today:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ElonJet/status/1279161173775171590


Elon was in Tulsa yesterday:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1279262905410568193?s=20


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on July 04, 2020, 09:57:28 am
Any lingering doubts Tulsans might have about whether Tesla is seriously considering building its next factory here vanished late Friday afternoon when company CEO Elon Musk arrived in town in his private plane.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-makes-visit-to-tulsa/article_75fe10c3-5fc4-54d1-9d9c-ffee4c1b50c5.html

It means he's either legitimately interested, or has the cash to put on a show.




Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 04, 2020, 10:25:02 am
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-makes-visit-to-tulsa/article_75fe10c3-5fc4-54d1-9d9c-ffee4c1b50c5.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Quote
“To maximize our time together, we had set up a tent, table, chairs, some snacks and water on the site,” Kouplen said. “... You can see downtown from the site, we are up high on a hill, it is really a beautiful day. So we’re basically just having our little over an hour conversation out there in the middle of the field.”

So....if this site has a view of downtown, that pretty much rules out Inola, or anything in the east Tulsa area. Is this proposed site on the west side of the river? Didn't the city offer some land over there to Amazon for HQ2? There's rail access all over the place, which is probably the most important thing for a car manufacturer.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 04, 2020, 12:28:28 pm
If you look at the Tesla factory in Fremont CA on Google Maps or Google Earth, there are no rail lines going into the facility. There was at one time when it was the joint Toyota/GM  NUMMI plant. There is a Union Pacific rail yard immediately east of the plant used for shunting, but it's not a load/unload yard.

Tesla's Nevada Giga Factory does not have a rail line running to it either. There is a main rail line near by, but the access point for load/unload is 20 miles west in Sparks NV.

 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Tulsan on July 04, 2020, 12:31:54 pm
The location appears to be the southeast corner of Hwy 412 and the Creek turnpike.  Wagoner County but in Tulsa's city limits.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Tulsan on July 04, 2020, 12:34:51 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/xqFFTk2.png)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 04, 2020, 12:42:29 pm
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-makes-visit-to-tulsa/article_75fe10c3-5fc4-54d1-9d9c-ffee4c1b50c5.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

So....if this site has a view of downtown, that pretty much rules out Inola, or anything in the east Tulsa area. Is this proposed site on the west side of the river? Didn't the city offer some land over there to Amazon for HQ2? There's rail access all over the place, which is probably the most important thing for a car manufacturer.

Could very well be wrong, but kine of looks like somewhere near the Kimberly Clark Plant given the background (look at the transmission line tower in the back of the photo in the article), looks kinda of like those... that area you can see Downtown Tulsa as well from those bluffs around White Hawk.

https://goo.gl/maps/fb93WQTDUjBqtY5s5

My other guesses would be Bales Park (the city had offered to swap this site with Simon at one point and relocate the park/housing elsewhere).

There's a big field of land on the west end of Chandler Park that's privately owned.

Then the last potential sites I can think of would be the Northwest Passage area which you can see Downtown from many of the hills in that area.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 04, 2020, 12:46:06 pm
The location appears to be the southeast corner of Hwy 412 and the Creek turnpike.  Wagoner County but in Tulsa's city limits.

Ah yes, didn't even think about that you can see Downtown driving in from 412, would make sense that's the location. I think that area has transmission lines from GRDA too right? He could get power from a renewable source for the plant too.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Tulsan on July 04, 2020, 12:52:42 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/CbFVBor.png)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 04, 2020, 03:12:00 pm
Yep looks like that is the site, and it is indeed within Tulsa city limits.  If the plant goes there you have to believe that would be a major boon for the areas of East Tulsa between 169 and the Creek south of 44.

Are those old pit mines over there?  I know there is a lot of mining in that area closer to the port.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: smitteebc on July 04, 2020, 04:45:40 pm
It appears to be right here based on the slides shared.

(https://i.ibb.co/RHDgnNs/D9302-FA6-6-D60-4-BA6-B3-C2-584770129652.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JGnNK6)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 04, 2020, 06:04:48 pm
It appears to be right here based on the slides shared.

(https://i.ibb.co/RHDgnNs/D9302-FA6-6-D60-4-BA6-B3-C2-584770129652.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JGnNK6)



I was originally told that was one of the two proposed sites. Wasn't sure if it was east or west side of the turnpike though. I didn't think you could see downtown from there though


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 05, 2020, 06:33:03 pm
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-makes-visit-to-tulsa/article_75fe10c3-5fc4-54d1-9d9c-ffee4c1b50c5.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

So....if this site has a view of downtown, that pretty much rules out Inola, or anything in the east Tulsa area. Is this proposed site on the west side of the river? Didn't the city offer some land over there to Amazon for HQ2? There's rail access all over the place, which is probably the most important thing for a car manufacturer.


Something very strange about the picture with all the people.  No one is sweating.  That just ain't possible last Friday.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 05, 2020, 11:07:29 pm
The one thing this site doesn’t have currently is rail access, maybe that’s not that important?  Not sure if the Austin site has it or not.  I know I prefer this location to Inola.  East Tulsa could really use a shot in the arm but this would also be a major boost for BA and Catoosa/Verdigris.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 06, 2020, 11:37:34 am
The one thing this site doesn’t have currently is rail access, maybe that’s not that important?  Not sure if the Austin site has it or not.  I know I prefer this location to Inola.  East Tulsa could really use a shot in the arm but this would also be a major boost for BA and Catoosa/Verdigris.

It doesn't, the site they picked out in Austin doesn't either. I was wrong on that end, Tesla is always a bit out of the box so guess they aren't as concerned about rail access. Maybe they feel like once the Semi is in production they'll just do shipping that way instead of via rail? Who knows.

I think this site is owned by one of the Waltons - they own the land to the north of 412 as well and several 100 acres to the south too. I think at one point almost 2 decades ago they had looked into building a NASCAR stadium on that site but nothing materialized on that and it's just been ranch land since.

Even if Austin is picked this will be a net benefit for Tulsa going all out. We're not only out to make an impression on Tesla, but we have the nation's site selection industry's eyes on us and I think this could really be a game changer to getting more job expansions/relocations to Tulsa.

"Meanwhile, just being a finalist for Tesla’s factory has already given Tulsa and the rest of Oklahoma more credibility with other companies, Kouplen said. His office is currently working on at least 115 economic development opportunities across the state, with many of the companies giving the state a serious look as a direct result of Tesla’s interest, he said.”


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Weatherdemon on July 06, 2020, 02:33:39 pm
Had a buddy text me and say his boss heard on the news that Tulsa got it. Can't find confirmation though.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 06, 2020, 02:49:24 pm
Tesla delivers their cars by truck to cut down on time to the customer, and because they don't have the traditional dealer network and brick and mortar store with a few dozen cars on the lot. Shipping by rail, the rail car with your car on it may go from Fremont, to LA, to El Paso, Dallas, OKC and Tulsa depending on the routes and trains used and could take two to four weeks. If they have eight cars going to Oklahoma they can load in Fremont and be in OKC and Tulsa in about seven days. I asked a transport driver for Tesla, and a rep at a Tesla store.

Tesla produces ~7000 cars per week, Ford builds that many every two days.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 06, 2020, 02:58:07 pm
It doesn't, the site they picked out in Austin doesn't either. I was wrong on that end, Tesla is always a bit out of the box so guess they aren't as concerned about rail access. Maybe they feel like once the Semi is in production they'll just do shipping that way instead of via rail? Who knows.

I think this site is owned by one of the Waltons - they own the land to the north of 412 as well and several 100 acres to the south too. I think at one point almost 2 decades ago they had looked into building a NASCAR stadium on that site but nothing materialized on that and it's just been ranch land since.

Even if Austin is picked this will be a net benefit for Tulsa going all out. We're not only out to make an impression on Tesla, but we have the nation's site selection industry's eyes on us and I think this could really be a game changer to getting more job expansions/relocations to Tulsa.

"Meanwhile, just being a finalist for Tesla’s factory has already given Tulsa and the rest of Oklahoma more credibility with other companies, Kouplen said. His office is currently working on at least 115 economic development opportunities across the state, with many of the companies giving the state a serious look as a direct result of Tesla’s interest, he said.”

This would be a great spot for the semi to be built if we don't get the cybertruck factory.  

That's interesting about the Walton's.  I've wondered if there were ways we could increase ties to NW Arkansas specifically UofA along the 412 corridor.  When I've been over there they definitely seem more connected to Tulsa than they do Little Rock or the rest of Arkansas.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 06, 2020, 05:18:19 pm
Had a buddy text me and say his boss heard on the news that Tulsa got it. Can't find confirmation though.

If it was announced on the news it would be everywhere. Does your friend's boss have inside knowledge of the deal?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: TulsaBeMore on July 07, 2020, 02:10:13 am
This would be a great spot for the semi to be built if we don't get the cybertruck factory. 

That's interesting about the Walton's.  I've wondered if there were ways we could increase ties to NW Arkansas specifically UofA along the 412 corridor.  When I've been over there they definitely seem more connected to Tulsa than they do Little Rock or the rest of Arkansas.

By Walton, don't they mean Robson?  Sam's wife Helen was Helen Robson of Claremore. Daughter of the town's big banker.  Sam was no dummy.  You can fall in love with anybody --- banker's daughter just as good as any.  The Robsons built Forest Ridge, own tons of land that way and RCB Bank. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on July 07, 2020, 08:50:02 am
By Walton, don't they mean Robson?  Sam's wife Helen was Helen Robson of Claremore. Daughter of the town's big banker.  Sam was no dummy.  You can fall in love with anybody --- banker's daughter just as good as any.  The Robsons built Forest Ridge, own tons of land that way and RCB Bank.  

The land in question is owned by  I244-ADMIRAL LAND, L.L.C.  The registered agent is Lloyd Robson out of Broken Arrow.

Scratch that.  I looked at the wrong place.  The correct owner is Fair Oaks Ranch, LLC.  Owned by John Robson, Catoosa.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 07, 2020, 11:10:17 am
Anyone know more about the property tax incentives for this site?  It looks like it is mostly in the Catoosa school district possibly partially within BA

(https://i0.wp.com/okgrassroots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Tulsa-Area-School-Districts.png?fit=673%2C835&ssl=1&w=640)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on July 07, 2020, 01:14:37 pm
Anyone know more about the property tax incentives for this site?  It looks like it is mostly in the Catoosa school district possibly partially within BA

On Google Maps, it shows as inside Tulsa city limits.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 07, 2020, 04:41:18 pm
On Google Maps, it shows as inside Tulsa city limits.

I saw that but it doesn't appear to be within the TPS district boundary.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: rebound on July 08, 2020, 08:22:49 am
I saw that but it doesn't appear to be within the TPS district boundary.

Ah, yeah,  agreed.  Wasn't looking at that.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: nxb33 on July 08, 2020, 09:16:07 am
Wagoner county, Catoosa public schools, city of Tulsa


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on July 09, 2020, 08:58:30 am
I am honestly blown away that Elon visited and that they were able to put all this together. This is a tremendous effort and all involved should be proud of it.

Earlier I felt like it was just posturing and getting our name out there, but now I feel like we really have a shot, and even if we don't get the main factory there's a really strong chance we get something else. At this point I will be surprised if Tesla doesn't build anything here.

Tulsa has been in the limelight a lot lately for good and bad reasons, so it's very helpful to have something going on to elevate our status beyond trump visits and addressing our massacre history.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on July 09, 2020, 10:20:31 am
Yikes!  This could throw a wrench in the works.

Supreme Court hands Oklahoma a loss on tribal lands fighthttps://www.tulsaworld.com/news/supreme-court-hands-oklahoma-a-loss-on-tribal-lands-fight/article_4c33fbe8-c1ed-11ea-8c16-2705dc65414a.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/supreme-court-hands-oklahoma-a-loss-on-tribal-lands-fight/article_4c33fbe8-c1ed-11ea-8c16-2705dc65414a.html)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 09, 2020, 11:16:41 am
Yikes!  This could throw a wrench in the works.

Supreme Court hands Oklahoma a loss on tribal lands fighthttps://www.tulsaworld.com/news/supreme-court-hands-oklahoma-a-loss-on-tribal-lands-fight/article_4c33fbe8-c1ed-11ea-8c16-2705dc65414a.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/supreme-court-hands-oklahoma-a-loss-on-tribal-lands-fight/article_4c33fbe8-c1ed-11ea-8c16-2705dc65414a.html)

Besides the fact that this ruling means Native Americans cannot be tried for crimes committed on Native land by the state this shouldn't change anything as far as land ownership, unless I'm missing something.  Most people already understand that living in eastern Oklahoma means also living in sovereign Indian nations but still governed by city/state/federal laws.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 09, 2020, 12:29:07 pm
I saw that but it doesn't appear to be within the TPS district boundary.

I don't know if they will require much of a property tax break here. Texas it is assessed near 100% market value and tax rates are 2.5-3.0%. Say the plant is appraised by the county near $750 million, 75% or so of cost. Telsa's yearly property tax bill would likely be around $25,000,000, or more. In Oklahoma, the full property tax would be around $1.5 to 2 million a year if the county here appraised it at $750 million.

That's why the property tax abatement they're seeking can make or break the deal for Austin. Texas is in the top 10 most expensive states for property taxes.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Vision 2025 on July 09, 2020, 01:18:40 pm
Don't forget the State Tax Exemption for manufacturing facilities, I seem to remember its 5 years from completion.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: BKDotCom on July 09, 2020, 02:37:50 pm
I don't know if they will require much of a property tax break here. Texas it is assessed near 100% market value and tax rates are 2.5-3.0%. Say the plant is appraised by the county near $750 million, 75% or so of cost. Telsa's yearly property tax bill would likely be around $25,000,000, or more. In Oklahoma, the full property tax would be around $1.5 to 2 million a year if the county here appraised it at $750 million.

That's why the property tax abatement they're seeking can make or break the deal for Austin. Texas is in the top 10 most expensive states for property taxes.

What if Tesla leases the land from the Creeks?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 09, 2020, 02:54:23 pm
What if Tesla leases the land from the Creeks?

Land and improvements are appraised separately in property tax assessments. Regardless if it's a land lease for $1, the factory building and equipment would still be taxed which is the expensive part. Land owner would then be responsible for the land assessment taxes.  Tesla being the owner of the factory (the improvements) since they don't lease their facilities would be responsible for that portion of taxes.  


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on July 09, 2020, 03:11:56 pm
Land and improvements are appraised separately in property tax assessments. Regardless if it's a land lease for $1, the factory building and equipment would still be taxed which is the expensive part. Land owner would then be responsible for the land assessment taxes.  Tesla being the owner of the factory (the improvements) since they don't lease their facilities would be responsible for that portion of taxes.  

Not on Creek owned land. Certainly not on Creek Nation owned land.

We are in uncharted waters.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 09, 2020, 03:35:06 pm
Not on Creek owned land. Certainly not on Creek Nation owned land.

We are in uncharted waters.

Well that comes down to who owns the improvements. You can make the argument of well who has taxing authority now, etc. if that's the question.

If the Creek Nation built the improvements and leased to Tesla, there would likely be no property taxes. If the Creek Nation leased the land, and Tesla built the improvements and own the building (but not the land). Tesla would pay property taxes (to City, Schools, Creeks, whoever). If that's the question of well does the Creek Nation now own every single piece of real property on the designated tribal reservation lands.

From my understanding of the ruling today is this doesn't effect land ownership. This has more to do with who has the authority of policing powers like criminal courts and would effect things like taxing powers, zoning, etc. (which is a completely separate issue to ownership)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: kvanover on July 09, 2020, 04:09:15 pm
From Reuters:

Tribe members who live within the boundaries are now set to become exempt from certain state obligations such as paying state taxes, while certain Native Americans found guilty in state courts may be able to challenge their convictions on jurisdictional grounds. The tribe also may obtain more power to regulate alcohol sales and expand casino gambling.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on July 09, 2020, 04:52:45 pm
Well that comes down to who owns the improvements. You can make the argument of well who has taxing authority now, etc. if that's the question.

If the Creek Nation built the improvements and leased to Tesla, there would likely be no property taxes. If the Creek Nation leased the land, and Tesla built the improvements and own the building (but not the land). Tesla would pay property taxes (to City, Schools, Creeks, whoever). If that's the question of well does the Creek Nation now own every single piece of real property on the designated tribal reservation lands.

From my understanding of the ruling today is this doesn't effect land ownership. This has more to do with who has the authority of policing powers like criminal courts and would effect things like taxing powers, zoning, etc. (which is a completely separate issue to ownership)

If it's on Creek Nation land in the reservation, the state has no jurisdiction or right to tax. The Creek Nation can, but not the state.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 09, 2020, 06:18:14 pm
If it's on Creek Nation land in the reservation, the state has no jurisdiction or right to tax. The Creek Nation can, but not the state.

We're probably saying the same thing, just different ways. If Tesla is the owner of the building or the land or both - they will pay taxes to someone. If it's to the city, county, schools then we know the tax rate and it's significantly lower than Texas or to the Creek Nation if they decide they want to exercise that policing power. I guess the Creek Nation could decide the property tax rate should be the same as Texas (highly doubtful). I can't imagine the tribes will want to get involved with a lawsuits over that. They've already released statements saying they want to work with the state to resolve issues.

Really, what I foresee happening is they probably impose more sovereign rights for their citizens and shelter them from the criminal system (which is what brought this case up in the first place). They might decide their citizens have the right to not pay property taxes, etc. But largely leave everyone else to what is the status quo. It will allow them to build casino whenever and wherever they want and develop property without going through a ridiculous trust system. They'll probably operate the casino's however they want and will no longer need a gaming compact with the state. So we'll probably see expanded gaming in the state.

To me it seems the fear mongering from the republicans about this is far over blown. You're essentially saying that the Creek Nation will now screw everyone who now resides within their reservation on their land (Kind of like we did to them previously right? That's beside the point though). It would not benefit them financially to do so or their tribal citizens to see the state thrown into property right chaos and the resulting economic chaos. The tribes have been better partners to many cities than our own state legislature on many occasions. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on July 09, 2020, 06:52:46 pm
It will allow them to build casino whenever and wherever they want and develop property without going through a ridiculous trust system. They'll probably operate the casino's however they want and will no longer need a gaming compact with the state.

I see a lot more (previously) illegal TV-on-a-stick billboards in our future.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on July 09, 2020, 07:31:40 pm
We're probably saying the same thing, just different ways. If Tesla is the owner of the building or the land or both - they will pay taxes to someone. If it's to the city, county, schools then we know the tax rate and it's significantly lower than Texas or to the Creek Nation if they decide they want to exercise that policing power. I guess the Creek Nation could decide the property tax rate should be the same as Texas (highly doubtful). I can't imagine the tribes will want to get involved with a lawsuits over that. They've already released statements saying they want to work with the state to resolve issues.

Really, what I foresee happening is they probably impose more sovereign rights for their citizens and shelter them from the criminal system (which is what brought this case up in the first place). They might decide their citizens have the right to not pay property taxes, etc. But largely leave everyone else to what is the status quo. It will allow them to build casino whenever and wherever they want and develop property without going through a ridiculous trust system. They'll probably operate the casino's however they want and will no longer need a gaming compact with the state. So we'll probably see expanded gaming in the state.

To me it seems the fear mongering from the republicans about this is far over blown. You're essentially saying that the Creek Nation will now screw everyone who now resides within their reservation on their land (Kind of like we did to them previously right? That's beside the point though). It would not benefit them financially to do so or their tribal citizens to see the state thrown into property right chaos and the resulting economic chaos. The tribes have been better partners to many cities than our own state legislature on many occasions.  

I’m not saying the tribe is trying to screw anyone. My wife and kids are Creek, it’s possible my house and wife’s income will not be subject to state taxes. I’m not holding my breath on that. I’m getting my info largely from my daughter, who did a college thesis on a related topic and is a policy analyst with a Native rights group in DC.

The tribe certainly has zero intention of shielding anyone from prosecution. If anything, defendants that end up in tribal or federal court are likely to find the courts MORE harsh, not less. THAT is a problem that will need to be addressed. The Creek Nation did not bring this suit, but did support the restoration of reservation status. They have no interest in this man going free.

I would expect no changes for most people. This should not change the need for gambling compacts, the compacts grant exclusivity for gambling in the state to the tribes in exchange for payments to the state. They are NOT taxes, which confuses most people. The state cannot tax a tribe.

I personally think it’s a really interesting idea to GIVE the land to the Creek Nation with the intention of the Nation allowing Tesla to build with zero or very low taxes as an incentive, likely along with generous federal benefits for economic development on tribal lands.  


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 09, 2020, 09:13:20 pm
I’m not saying the tribe is trying to screw anyone. My wife and kids are Creek, it’s possible my house and wife’s income will not be subject to state taxes. I’m not holding my breath on that. I’m getting my info largely from my daughter, who did a college thesis on a related topic and is a policy analyst with a Native rights group in DC.

The tribe certainly has zero intention of shielding anyone from prosecution. If anything, defendants that end up in tribal or federal court are likely to find the courts MORE harsh, not less. THAT is a problem that will need to be addressed. The Creek Nation did not bring this suit, but did support the restoration of reservation status. They have no interest in this man going free.

I would expect no changes for most people. This should not change the need for gambling compacts, the compacts grant exclusivity for gambling in the state to the tribes in exchange for payments to the state. They are NOT taxes, which confuses most people. The state cannot tax a tribe.

I personally think it’s a really interesting idea to GIVE the land to the Creek Nation with the intention of the Nation allowing Tesla to build with zero or very low taxes as an incentive, likely along with generous federal benefits for economic development on tribal lands.  


Didn't necessarily mean you were saying the tribe would be out to screw people. Sorry if it came off that way. Meant there's a lot of republican's out there saying that today. Ted Cruz, etc. bemoaning about how the court just gave away half of Oklahoma. Seems like some of the people on here are misinterpreting what this case was really about. It's about policing powers/jurisdiction... has nothing to do with land ownership rights. All land in the Creek Nation will not revert to their ownership today. People saying this are just trying to create fear mongering among people against the tribe. Who in general have been better partners to people in this state than our elected leadership in OKC.

This won't impact Tesla or anyone else in the Tulsa area trying to build or buy anything.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 09, 2020, 09:38:01 pm
July 7th is for the County incentives.

July 10th is for ISD property tax incentives (school district which account for usually about 50% or more of people's tax bill in most areas of Texas). This is really the critical one, because  they tax personal property for businesses. So, for Tesla, the tax bill would be astronomical given the specialized equipment needed in the plant. Telsa officials said in the last meeting for the ISD that if this isn't approved they will not build the plant there. The other county incentives are probably just icing on the cake type thing.

Del Valle ISD approved the property tax incentives today.   https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/development/2020/07/09/del-valle-isd-approves-tesla-incentives-paving-way-for-possible-travis-county-agreement/ (https://communityimpact.com/austin/southwest-austin-dripping-springs/development/2020/07/09/del-valle-isd-approves-tesla-incentives-paving-way-for-possible-travis-county-agreement/)

Travis County should vote next week after punting this week, maybe waiting for the ISD approval.  Not sure what approvals are needed or are already in place for Tulsa, anyone know?  Sounds like we are getting close to a final decision.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: AdamsHall on July 10, 2020, 09:52:49 am
Didn't necessarily mean you were saying the tribe would be out to screw people. Sorry if it came off that way. Meant there's a lot of republican's out there saying that today. Ted Cruz, etc. bemoaning about how the court just gave away half of Oklahoma. Seems like some of the people on here are misinterpreting what this case was really about. It's about policing powers/jurisdiction... has nothing to do with land ownership rights. All land in the Creek Nation will not revert to their ownership today. People saying this are just trying to create fear mongering among people against the tribe. Who in general have been better partners to people in this state than our elected leadership in OKC.

This won't impact Tesla or anyone else in the Tulsa area trying to build or buy anything.

I have not followed what the Republicans are saying, but this very definitely has the potential to impact, if not significantly impact, more than police powers.  The immediate problem is the uncertainty that is now present.  Ideally, we get congressional action or enter a compact arrangement soon to clarify jurisdiction.  See the following note from Chief Justice Roberts:

  “On top of that, the Court has profoundly destabilized the governance of eastern Oklahoma,” Roberts wrote. “The decision today creates significant uncertainty for the State’s continuing authority over any area that touches Indian affairs, ranging from zoning and taxation to family and environmental law.”


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 10, 2020, 11:03:23 am
I have not followed what the Republicans are saying, but this very definitely has the potential to impact, if not significantly impact, more than police powers.  The immediate problem is the uncertainty that is now present.  Ideally, we get congressional action or enter a compact arrangement soon to clarify jurisdiction.  See the following note from Chief Justice Roberts:

  “On top of that, the Court has profoundly destabilized the governance of eastern Oklahoma,” Roberts wrote. “The decision today creates significant uncertainty for the State’s continuing authority over any area that touches Indian affairs, ranging from zoning and taxation to family and environmental law.”


Zoning, taxation, etc. are all policing powers. So it does create a massive question of who has authority over that in large portions of Oklahoma now. Is it the tribes or is it the city governments? The court decision was directly related to Federal law, but the implications of that spread to more than just that issue.

It does however not make any determinations into land ownership. That is what a lot of people seem to be confusing (including Ted Cruz and others). This is about who has authority over law and jurisdiction issues, not land ownership. If you owned your house yesterday morning, the Creek Nation (etc.) does not now own your house today.

A few people here seemed to be saying well now Tesla would have to buy the land from the Creeks... no, that's not what this case was about. The person who owns the site Tesla is looking at can still sell them the site. Now, down the road... Tesla might have to pay more taxes on the site if the Creek Nation wanted to impose additional property taxes. Given this ruling, they very well could do so. I don't foresee them doing something like this though, I can only imagine how many lawsuits this would create and do the tribes really want to go down lengthy court battles over something like that? Likely not. There will probably be some sort of agreements signed between the tribes and the cities/state that sets out guidelines of who has jurisdiction and authority in things like local, state, federal law, taxation, zoning, etc. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: AdamsHall on July 10, 2020, 01:05:33 pm
Zoning, taxation, etc. are all policing powers. So it does create a massive question of who has authority over that in large portions of Oklahoma now. Is it the tribes or is it the city governments? The court decision was directly related to Federal law, but the implications of that spread to more than just that issue.

It does however not make any determinations into land ownership. That is what a lot of people seem to be confusing (including Ted Cruz and others). This is about who has authority over law and jurisdiction issues, not land ownership. If you owned your house yesterday morning, the Creek Nation (etc.) does not now own your house today.

A few people here seemed to be saying well now Tesla would have to buy the land from the Creeks... no, that's not what this case was about. The person who owns the site Tesla is looking at can still sell them the site. Now, down the road... Tesla might have to pay more taxes on the site if the Creek Nation wanted to impose additional property taxes. Given this ruling, they very well could do so. I don't foresee them doing something like this though, I can only imagine how many lawsuits this would create and do the tribes really want to go down lengthy court battles over something like that? Likely not. There will probably be some sort of agreements signed between the tribes and the cities/state that sets out guidelines of who has jurisdiction and authority in things like local, state, federal law, taxation, zoning, etc. 

Agreed on the land ownership component.  I believe an attempt by the tribe to tax on lands within the reservation would be the surest way to get this resolved via lawsuit.  So likewise, I doubt that is attempted.  As previously noted, the groups need to find common ground in an agreement.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on July 10, 2020, 02:57:11 pm
Besides the fact that this ruling means Native Americans cannot be tried for crimes committed on Native land by the state this shouldn't change anything as far as land ownership, unless I'm missing something.  Most people already understand that living in eastern Oklahoma means also living in sovereign Indian nations but still governed by city/state/federal laws.

Of course, I didn't say anything about land ownership being in question.  But as LandArchPoke said, this creates "a massive question of who has authority. . . "   That is the "wrench" to which I was referring.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: tulsabug on July 10, 2020, 04:08:16 pm
I have not followed what the Republicans are saying...


You're not missing anything.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on July 11, 2020, 07:58:34 am


Travis County Continues to Mull Economic Incentives for $1 Billion Tesla Gigafactory

Quote
The $1 billion Tesla plant is not a done deal for Austin. Tesla’s Founder Elon Musk visited Tulsa, Oklahoma over the fourth of July weekend to look at sites there for the proposed Gigafactory. Oklahoma is making a huge push to recruit Tesla.

http://siliconhillsnews.com/2020/07/07/travis-county-continues-to-mull-economic-incentives-for-1-billion-tesla-gigafactory/ (http://siliconhillsnews.com/2020/07/07/travis-county-continues-to-mull-economic-incentives-for-1-billion-tesla-gigafactory/)



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 13, 2020, 07:56:21 pm
You're not missing anything.


Yeah he is.  If you don't know what the forces of evil are doing, you cannot effectively counter them.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 13, 2020, 07:59:15 pm


It does however not make any determinations into land ownership. That is what a lot of people seem to be confusing (including Ted Cruz and others). This is about who has authority over law and jurisdiction issues, not land ownership. If you owned your house yesterday morning, the Creek Nation (etc.) does not now own your house today.



Maybe some are confused, but Ted Cruz is NOT one of them!   He understands perfectly what he is doing/saying, and is continuing in the tradition of obfuscation, distortion, and lies.  He is one of those who is intentionally trying to cause confusion.

Plus, I bet he is a John Wayne fan, too!



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 14, 2020, 05:30:06 pm
Travis County and Del Valle ISD passed the incentives.  Now it’s up to Tesla to make their decision.  I think they end up choosing Austin for this plant but that Tulsa is now in a good position to get a future plant.  


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 15, 2020, 04:00:52 pm
Rumor is the official announcement will be made during their shareholder meeting/battery day, which is in September. I'd imagine the decision will be made prior to that and city/state officials will be notified much sooner, but the public announcement will be around that time if Elon manages to not randomly tweet it.

Other news, Mazzio's offers up 7,000 + free pizzas - 1 to every employee at Tesla in Tulsa.

Interesting story from KJRH: https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/gov-stitt-continues-productive-talks-with-tesla

"The official told 2 Works for You the call focused on quality of life in Tulsa as opposed to specifics of Oklahoma’s site or incentive proposals.

During the call, the official said a group of entrepreneurs who moved to Tulsa through Tulsa Remote spoke about their experiences moving to the city from other parts of the country, including Austin.

Stitt concluded the meeting by sharing his personal story of starting his company in Tulsa with $1,000 and a computer and his vision of making Oklahoma a Top Ten state and raising its profile on a national level, the official said.

Officials said they believe the call was very productive and they plan to continue the conversation."

I've also heard that they have been able to collect over 2,000 resumes from engineers who have said they would move to Tulsa to work for Tesla and that's also been presented to senior Tesla officials. There's also a fair amount of internet blog press turning more favorable to Tulsa. So all in all this seems like a big win for Tulsa even if we don't get the plant. We needed something like that to open up some eyes in the site selection community to so how open Tulsa is to new development/job expansion. We've still got a lot of perception issues to battle in the quality of life arena though.

And... finally, Stitt tests positive for COVID. Which means he got it sometime around when Elon visited Tulsa. Wouldn't that be a way for Elon to remember Oklahoma if the governor gave him COVID.  :o


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 16, 2020, 09:21:58 am
Rumor is the official announcement will be made during their shareholder meeting/battery day, which is in September. I'd imagine the decision will be made prior to that and city/state officials will be notified much sooner, but the public announcement will be around that time if Elon manages to not randomly tweet it.

Interesting story from KJRH: https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/gov-stitt-continues-productive-talks-with-tesla

"The official told 2 Works for You the call focused on quality of life in Tulsa as opposed to specifics of Oklahoma’s site or incentive proposals.

During the call, the official said a group of entrepreneurs who moved to Tulsa through Tulsa Remote spoke about their experiences moving to the city from other parts of the country, including Austin.

Stitt concluded the meeting by sharing his personal story of starting his company in Tulsa with $1,000 and a computer and his vision of making Oklahoma a Top Ten state and raising its profile on a national level, the official said.

Officials said they believe the call was very productive and they plan to continue the conversation."

I've also heard that they have been able to collect over 2,000 resumes from engineers who have said they would move to Tulsa to work for Tesla and that's also been presented to senior Tesla officials. There's also a fair amount of internet blog press turning more favorable to Tulsa. So all in all this seems like a big win for Tulsa even if we don't get the plant. We needed something like that to open up some eyes in the site selection community to so how open Tulsa is to new development/job expansion. We've still got a lot of perception issues to battle in the quality of life arena though.

And... finally, Stitt tests positive for COVID. Which means he got it sometime around when Elon visited Tulsa. Wouldn't that be a way for Elon to remember Oklahoma if the governor gave him COVID.  :o


Well they seem to have the information they need from both Tulsa and Austin. Incentives are approved and closing arguments have been made. I would think they'd want to have a decision by the end of this month or next.

Also, 2000 resumes from engineers is an impressive amount and hopefully alleviates some concern about workforce in Tulsa.

Regardless, if Tulsa isn't chosen for this factory I can't imagine us not being on the top of the list for the next one they build. Then when you consider the publicity and the companies taking a look at the state because of it, this whole process is a win win for the city and state.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 16, 2020, 09:40:43 am
Well they seem to have the information they need from both Tulsa and Austin. Incentives are approved and closing arguments have been made. I would think they'd want to have a decision by the end of this month or next.

Also, 2000 resumes from engineers is an impressive amount and hopefully alleviates some concern about workforce in Tulsa.

Regardless, if Tulsa isn't chosen for this factory I can't imagine us not being on the top of the list for the next one they build. Then when you consider the publicity and the companies taking a look at the state because of it, this whole process is a win win for the city and state.

I honestly think the semi plant would be even better, even if it doesn't happen for a few years.  That is the game changer for how we move goods around in the U.S. (and world).  But landing the truck/SUV plant would be great as well.   :)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 16, 2020, 11:51:41 am
I honestly think the semi plant would be even better, even if it doesn't happen for a few years.  That is the game changer for how we move goods around in the U.S. (and world).  But landing the truck/SUV plant would be great as well.   :)

I agree, I'm more excited for the Semi than I am the Cybertruck. The game changer will be if Tesla can get the battery distance on the semi right. If they can get the battery to last for 8 hours of driving at least, then the drivers can charge the truck while they sleep. If they can do that I can't see any reason why anyone would want gas powered semi's in the logistics sector.

Amazon has already order 100,000 trucks from Rivian (electric car firm that has Ford, Amazon and others as investors). Those would be the smaller delivery local delivery trucks. Amazon would likely switch to all electric Semi's too and if they do it, UPS, FedEx, etc. will all follow. There's a huge market for the semi and would really go a long way to reducing smog/emissions in the big cities.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: AdamsHall on July 16, 2020, 04:14:55 pm
I agree, I'm more excited for the Semi than I am the Cybertruck. The game changer will be if Tesla can get the battery distance on the semi right. If they can get the battery to last for 8 hours of driving at least, then the drivers can charge the truck while they sleep. If they can do that I can't see any reason why anyone would want gas powered semi's in the logistics sector.

Amazon has already order 100,000 trucks from Rivian (electric car firm that has Ford, Amazon and others as investors). Those would be the smaller delivery local delivery trucks. Amazon would likely switch to all electric Semi's too and if they do it, UPS, FedEx, etc. will all follow. There's a huge market for the semi and would really go a long way to reducing smog/emissions in the big cities.

Tesla continues to increase the size of their factories, so there may be some advantage in getting the next one.  That said, I would prefer not to wait.  The semi (particularly with the automation options being discussed) has the potential to transform logistics and certainly the associated emissions.  It is going to be very interesting to watch the transition unfold.  Rivian is also very well funded and appears poised to make a very large splash with the Amazon vehicles and their truck and SUV offering.  In addition to the Amazon and Ford investments, Rivian received another 2.5 billion in funding last week and have yet to produce a single vehicle.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on July 18, 2020, 05:56:27 pm
Tesla has got to be impressed with Tulsa.  Truly feel that Tesla will have more planned for Tulsa's future since Mr. Elon Musk continues his visits.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Rattle Trap on July 22, 2020, 03:51:49 pm
Tesla picked Austin


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 22, 2020, 03:58:19 pm
Not a huge shock, we were the dark horse.  Now need to go 100% after the semi factory which would be a similar size to the Gigafactory.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: shavethewhales on July 22, 2020, 04:07:35 pm
Onward and upward, let's keep the momentum going and see what we can go for next! I didn't expect us to win out, but I'm ecstatic we seemingly held in there the way we did.

As has been said before, this process got us noticed by companies outside of Tesla as well. We are now on the radar at least in ways we weren't before. The experience and publicity gained from this could be very useful.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: patric on July 22, 2020, 06:36:53 pm
Not a huge shock, we were the dark horse.  Now need to go 100% after the semi factory which would be a similar size to the Gigafactory.



“We're gonna have a boardwalk where there will be a hiking, biking trail,” he continued. “It's gonna basically be an ecological paradise — birds in the trees, butterflies, fish in the stream. And it'll be open to the public as well.”

https://www.engadget.com/teslas-q-2-earnings-could-qualify-the-company-for-an-sp-500-listing-213918329.html


Austin wins Tesla's new factory, Musk thanks Tulsa
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/austin-wins-teslas-new-factory-musk-thanks-tulsa


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on July 23, 2020, 03:16:19 pm
We gave it a good shot, and I think Tulsa came across well on the national stage. Our time will come.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 23, 2020, 08:07:34 pm
We gave it a good shot, and I think Tulsa came across well on the national stage. Our time will come.


Mostly.

Except for that whole Trump rally thing and big jump in pandemic infections....


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: swake on July 23, 2020, 10:08:54 pm

Mostly.

Except for that whole Trump rally thing and big jump in pandemic infections....


Are you kidding me? the Trump rally in Tulsa with only 6k people was the most hilarious failure Trump has endured since he was president. One MILLION people will be there. You can just hear. Dr Evil.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 24, 2020, 10:31:42 am
I would think Tulsa and Nashville would the at the top of the list for future expansion after the G5 plant is built in Texas.  Just like Austin was passed over for Reno for G1 but was a finalist that helped them eventually land a factory.

Tesla Factory: Fremont, CA
G1: Reno, NV
G2: Buffalo, NY
G3: Shanghai, China
G4: Berlin, Germany
G5: Austin, TX
G6: ??

Quote
Musk disclosed the highly anticipated decision at the start of the company's earnings call while thanking officials in Tulsa, Oklahoma who also aggressively courted the automaker. Musk said he was "super impressed" by the economic development team and Governor Stitt and will consider Tulsa for other opportunities "down the road."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/austin-wins-teslas-new-factory-musk-thanks-tulsa (https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/austin-wins-teslas-new-factory-musk-thanks-tulsa)


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 24, 2020, 06:38:24 pm
I would think Tulsa and Nashville would the at the top of the list for future expansion after the G5 plant is built in Texas.  Just like Austin was passed over for Reno for G1 but was a finalist that helped them eventually land a factory.

Tesla Factory: Fremont, CA
G1: Reno, NV
G2: Buffalo, NY
G3: Shanghai, China
G4: Berlin, Germany
G5: Austin, TX
G6: ??

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/austin-wins-teslas-new-factory-musk-thanks-tulsa (https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/austin-wins-teslas-new-factory-musk-thanks-tulsa)


Probably Nashville area first - they have several other automakers nearby and can poach some people already trained.  Then us, maybe.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 25, 2020, 12:35:01 am

Probably Nashville area first - they have several other automakers nearby and can poach some people already trained.  Then us, maybe.



They will likely need an additional battery plant in the central U.S.  The Southeast as a whole is better suited for auto manufacturing with the existing companies there (Nissan and VW in Tennessee, Mercedes in Alabama, BMW in South Carolina, etc). But none of those states were finalists except Tennessee until the search was narrowed to Tulsa and Austin.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Laramie on July 25, 2020, 11:56:19 am
Disappointed in Tesla's decision to select Austin; however not surprised. 

Reminds me of OKC pitch to land a United Airlines maintenance facility years ago when Indianapolis was selected.  We had a much better incentive package put together by then Mayor Ron Norick.  Ron was later told that Indianapolis had a better standard of living and quality of life as their being selected.   They had NFL, NBA franchises and the infamous Indianapolis '500 at the motor speedway in their city and a host of arts and cultural related venues.   That led to the birth of OKC Metropolitan Area Projects (MAPS) initiatives to improve on the standing of living and quality of life issues.   The Bricktown Ballpark, Chesapeake Energy Arena, Bricktown Canal, North Canadian Riverfront Development and upgrades to aging city structures like Civic Center Music Hall needing attention.

Tulsa has a lot of positives that they can take away from the Tesla's decision.  Continue with that relentless pursuit, the same attitude that landed the American Airline Maintenance facility to Tulsa and other important drivers of your local economy.  Most importantly is to continue to take care of the existing businesses you have in your economy.  Focus on some smaller support and satellite businesses and the higher hanging fruit will eventually come.

Oklahoma Quality Jobs Program is still in place; it rewards job expansion and creation; therefore the firms and businesses you have now are your greatest assets.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 26, 2020, 06:13:04 pm
They will likely need an additional battery plant in the central U.S.  The Southeast as a whole is better suited for auto manufacturing with the existing companies there (Nissan and VW in Tennessee, Mercedes in Alabama, BMW in South Carolina, etc). But none of those states were finalists except Tennessee until the search was narrowed to Tulsa and Austin.


Great....(sarcastically)....just what we need - another battery plant here.  As if Picher wasn't bad enough... What new part of the state can we render uninhabitable next?  Between lead and big oil, just try to get a decent water well in NE Oklahoma!






Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 30, 2020, 08:46:27 pm
I've seen a lot of stories like these lately... let's hope this turns into some good news over the next year and we can build on some momentum.

From Costar News:

Promise of Tulsa, Oklahoma, Real Estate Emerges in Tesla Factory Site Search
Low Cost of Living Could Be a Lure for Companies


Three reasons why Tulsa stands out involve industrial real estate, a property type that has surged in demand as more consumers shop online and create a need for added logistics centers and warehouses. While Tesla ultimately decided to build a plant in Austin, Texas, it was lured by forces that led industrial real estate in Tulsa, even with 1 million fewer people in the surrounding region than Austin, to grow to 108 million square feet of space to surpass Austin's 107 million square feet, according to CoStar data.

That industrial real estate is less than half the price in Tulsa than it is in Austin, and Tulsa is outpacing its Texas rival for new construction of that property type. Real estate professionals say the presence of far more industrial real estate per capita, and at a far lower cost, in Tulsa than in high-profile Austin shows Oklahoma's second-largest city is primed for manufacturing growth. It also helps explain why Tulsa came down to the wire after Tesla initially looked at eight centrally located U.S. states to house its $1 billion, 4 million- to 5 million-square-foot manufacturing plant, a site that's expected eventually to create 5,000 jobs to make the Model Y and Cybertruck.

Tesla’s interest in Tulsa confirms the city's desirability for large-scale advanced manufacturing projects and, even though historically dominated by the oil and gas industry, an ability to diversify its industries, said Chris Schwinden, a senior vice president who leads the industrial business for the Dallas-based Site Selection Group advisory firm.

“If you look at its location in the south central United States, it makes a lot of sense that big companies want to be there,” said Schwinden, who's familiar with the region but isn't involved in Tulsa deals. “Tulsa is a really strong manufacturing market with robust training programs and a strong pipeline of labor. Tulsa is a Goldilocks-type of market that's big enough to satisfy hiring needs and not too big in which a company might have to deal with traffic congestion and other issues that pop up in larger cities.”

"Tulsa has flown under the radar for quite some time and Tesla's interest has brought the city to the forefront in terms of growth and quality of life," Hendershot said in an interview.

Developers in Tulsa don't tend to build large amounts of speculative industrial buildings as they do across the Red River in Texas. Instead, Oklahoma developers tend to wait to have a tenant in tow before beginning construction, he said.

That patience paid off with Tulsa landing a four-story, 2.56 million-square-foot Amazon e-commerce hub near the Muscogee Creek Nation that Hendershot said was "the crowning jewel of the decade for Tulsa," with a lot of land to do more deals. For real estate investors, Tulsa, which Hendershot says is like Austin a decade ago, can be seen as a bargain compared to the capital city of Texas, which ranked No. 1 in the nation for commercial real estate prospects and demand this year, according to the Urban Land Institute's annual survey.

Tulsa is a "really big small town" with growth potential because of what he calls business-friendly atmosphere and economic development help from the surrounding tribes in Oklahoma, said Schwinden.

"The tribal participation in economic development in Tulsa and, more broadly in Oklahoma, can be a big advantage for companies," Schwinden said in an interview. "It's a little bit of the secret sauce as it relates to economic development in Oklahoma being positioned to win big deals."

Native American tribes helped bring some big names to Oklahoma with the Cherokee Nation and the Muscogee Creek Nation being part of a larger coalition in helping e-commerce giant Amazon expand its presence in Tulsa. Years ago, the Cherokee Nation brought a half million dollars of economic incentives to a deal to bring a 1.2 million-square-foot distribution center for Macy's to Tulsa.

For potential employers, Schwinden said Tulsa could be a "surprisingly cool" choice with an arts and museum and culinary scene. City leaders created the Tulsa Remote program in 2018 to lure diverse young professionals with remote jobs by giving them up to $10,000 and office space in coworking locations. The program is funded by the George Kaiser Family Foundation, which recently donated $50 million to develop workforce development programs in Tulsa targeting jobs in energy technology, virtual health, drones, cybertechnology and data analytics.

As part of the $50 million investment, the Holberton School, a coding academy in San Francisco, is expected to open its third U.S. campus in Tulsa in early 2021. Billionaire George Kaiser made his money in oil and gas and banking and he opened The Gathering Place, a 66-acre park in Tulsa that's the largest public park in the country built with private funds, in 2018.

Several high-profile tech companies are planning a permanent work-from-home setup because of the pandemic and Tulsa might be a draw for workers and employers looking to exit big city life and rents, Schwinden said. For investors, this could be a good time to prepare for what is expected to be a bigger future for the city.

"There's an opportunity for Tulsa to better prepare with the help of developers, investors and especially the local community, which can play a big role in these industrial parks," Schwinden added.

Social media giant Facebook plans to hire remote employees in areas such as Dallas, Denver and Atlanta and pay them salaries based on their location, a move that could save Facebook a substantial amount considering the average annual tech salary in its hometown in Silicon Valley is $136,060, the highest in the nation, according to CBRE.

Growth Potential

Tulsa ranked as one of the 25 smaller markets to watch this year for growth potential for fostering tech talent development, according to CBRE's Scoring Tech Talent report. Tulsa had 13,040 tech workers in 2019, up 34% over the past year, with an average salary of $77,701, according to CBRE. Austin, meanwhile, ranked No. 6 on the report out of large markets and had 76,270 tech jobs in 2019, up 16.7% since 2014, paying an average annual salary of $95,416, according to CBRE.

Still, Tulsa has a high concentration of energy companies and is expected to be hurt by low oil prices. Energy companies have been hesitant to add jobs back, and consolidation and closings are disrupting Tulsa's office sector, according to a CoStar market analytics report.

And Austin's commercial real estate growth in the past decade has an edge over Tulsa in terms of two high-profile cultural factors: The Austin music scene is so strong it fostered the television program and festival Austin City Limits, which gave that city a national profile. Austin also is home to the well-known University of Texas at Austin, which provides so much trained technology workers that global companies like Google, Facebook and Apple have opened offices in the city. Those names often result in smaller tech companies popping up in the same area.

Even so, Tesla's Musk said on an earnings call last week when it posted its fourth consecutive quarter of positive profits that the Fortune 500 company will consider Tulsa for future expansions. That "bodes well for the future" of the city, said Bill Murphy, who oversaw economic development for the Tulsa Regional Chamber during the Tesla search. He now holds a deputy secretary role with the Kansas Department of Commerce.

"This reflects the community at large really put forward a positive image of the state and the community and we were able to compete with a world class city like Austin," Murphy said in an interview. "To have Elon Musk mention your city in an earnings call is every economic developer's dream."

As far as proceeding on any immediate large-scale development, the Tulsa area has three sites ready to go. MidAmerica Industrial Park is a business area involved in large industrial deals with tenant companies such as DuPont and Google, officials said.

Other sites being heavily marketed by Tulsa leaders include the Peoria Mohawk Business Park, an industrial area developed by the George Kaiser Family Foundation and the city of Tulsa in a partnership to drive business to north Tulsa, and the Claremore Industrial Park in Claremore, Oklahoma. Other sites near Tulsa, including in Broken Arrow and Muskogee, are also development possibilities.

Justin McLaughlin, executive vice president and chief operating officer for the Tulsa Regional Chamber, said finding large industrial development areas across the country can be difficult, but the Tulsa region has several "shovel ready" sites ready to go.

"You don't get looked at for these large projects unless you have the sites," said McLaughlin, who also is interim senior vice president for economic development, in an interview. "This put us on the radar screen with consultants and now there's a lot of information out there on us."

Murphy agrees, adding "this kind of publicity will pay dividends for another couple of months to a year."


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on July 30, 2020, 08:48:37 pm
Then this one from the Tulsa World today about CBRE's Tech Talent report which is the 2nd most downloaded report that they produce (it's a reoccurring report they produce):

https://tulsaworld.com/business/tulsa-ranked-as-promising-north-american-tech-talent-market-by-national-real-estate-firm/article_062b9c00-ba0e-5c1b-8145-06b3462e7f06.html

Tulsa has been listed as an “up-and-coming” North American tech-talent market, according to national commercial real estate services company CBRE.

Tulsa joined Oklahoma City on CBRE’s Scoring Tech Talent Report, which rates 75 U.S. and Canadian markets according to their ability to attract and expand tech talent.

Up-and-coming markets are separate from the 50 larger tech markets CBRE lists. In that secondary group, Tulsa ranked 15th overall, with its tech labor force growing by 34% to about 13,040 area tech employees in a recent five-year period. Tech salaries in Tulsa also have steadily increased, with total wage growth rising by 12% over that same span, according to the report.

Ranked No. 17 on the next 25 list, Oklahoma City saw its tech talent labor force grow 7% over five years to a total tech employment of 19,540 employees. Tech wages have also increased by 13 percent since 2014.

The up-and-coming markets were ranked by a narrower set of criteria than the top 50, including tech talent supply, wages, tech-talent concentration, recent tech talent growth rates and outlook.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on July 31, 2020, 08:35:52 am
I've been saying this for years and those that have been on this forum awhile are probably rolling their eyes: invest in higher education and it will pay dividends.  That is the missing ingredient Tulsa needs to take the next step.  The University of Tulsa, even as a private institution, should be leading the way and expanding.  They need to be more like a Vanderbilt or TCU.  And OSU and OU-Tulsa need to be full 4 year universities with residential campuses in their respective parts of town (Greenwood for OSU and midtown for OU).  

OSU Health Sciences/OSU Med Center/VA Hospital should be a medical complex on par with OU's in OKC.  And OSU should have all of its research programs and facilities in Tulsa.  The flagship undergraduate campus will always be in Stillwater but the bulk of graduate programs as well as undergrad programs in engineering, science, technology and business should be offered in Tulsa.  Look no further than Nebraska for how to operate a flagship campus (UNL) as well as an urban research campus (UNO) or the University of Colorado with Boulder and Denver.



Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on July 31, 2020, 01:23:10 pm
I've seen a lot of stories like these lately... let's hope this turns into some good news over the next year and we can build on some momentum.

From Costar News:

Promise of Tulsa, Oklahoma, Real Estate Emerges in Tesla Factory Site Search
Low Cost of Living Could Be a Lure for Companies


Three reasons why Tulsa stands out involve industrial real estate, a property type that has surged in demand as more consumers shop online and create a need for added logistics centers and warehouses. While Tesla ultimately decided to build a plant in Austin, Texas, it was lured by forces that led industrial real estate in Tulsa, even with 1 million fewer people in the surrounding region than Austin, to grow to 108 million square feet of space to surpass Austin's 107 million square feet, according to CoStar data.

That industrial real estate is less than half the price in Tulsa than it is in Austin, and Tulsa is outpacing its Texas rival for new construction of that property type. Real estate professionals say the presence of far more industrial real estate per capita, and at a far lower cost, in Tulsa than in high-profile Austin shows Oklahoma's second-largest city is primed for manufacturing growth. It also helps explain why Tulsa came down to the wire after Tesla initially looked at eight centrally located U.S. states to house its $1 billion, 4 million- to 5 million-square-foot manufacturing plant, a site that's expected eventually to create 5,000 jobs to make the Model Y and Cybertruck.

Tesla’s interest in Tulsa confirms the city's desirability for large-scale advanced manufacturing projects and, even though historically dominated by the oil and gas industry, an ability to diversify its industries, said Chris Schwinden, a senior vice president who leads the industrial business for the Dallas-based Site Selection Group advisory firm.

“If you look at its location in the south central United States, it makes a lot of sense that big companies want to be there,” said Schwinden, who's familiar with the region but isn't involved in Tulsa deals. “Tulsa is a really strong manufacturing market with robust training programs and a strong pipeline of labor. Tulsa is a Goldilocks-type of market that's big enough to satisfy hiring needs and not too big in which a company might have to deal with traffic congestion and other issues that pop up in larger cities.”

"Tulsa has flown under the radar for quite some time and Tesla's interest has brought the city to the forefront in terms of growth and quality of life," Hendershot said in an interview.

Developers in Tulsa don't tend to build large amounts of speculative industrial buildings as they do across the Red River in Texas. Instead, Oklahoma developers tend to wait to have a tenant in tow before beginning construction, he said.

That patience paid off with Tulsa landing a four-story, 2.56 million-square-foot Amazon e-commerce hub near the Muscogee Creek Nation that Hendershot said was "the crowning jewel of the decade for Tulsa," with a lot of land to do more deals. For real estate investors, Tulsa, which Hendershot says is like Austin a decade ago, can be seen as a bargain compared to the capital city of Texas, which ranked No. 1 in the nation for commercial real estate prospects and demand this year, according to the Urban Land Institute's annual survey.

Tulsa is a "really big small town" with growth potential because of what he calls business-friendly atmosphere and economic development help from the surrounding tribes in Oklahoma, said Schwinden.

"The tribal participation in economic development in Tulsa and, more broadly in Oklahoma, can be a big advantage for companies," Schwinden said in an interview. "It's a little bit of the secret sauce as it relates to economic development in Oklahoma being positioned to win big deals."

Native American tribes helped bring some big names to Oklahoma with the Cherokee Nation and the Muscogee Creek Nation being part of a larger coalition in helping e-commerce giant Amazon expand its presence in Tulsa. Years ago, the Cherokee Nation brought a half million dollars of economic incentives to a deal to bring a 1.2 million-square-foot distribution center for Macy's to Tulsa.

For potential employers, Schwinden said Tulsa could be a "surprisingly cool" choice with an arts and museum and culinary scene. City leaders created the Tulsa Remote program in 2018 to lure diverse young professionals with remote jobs by giving them up to $10,000 and office space in coworking locations. The program is funded by the George Kaiser Family Foundation, which recently donated $50 million to develop workforce development programs in Tulsa targeting jobs in energy technology, virtual health, drones, cybertechnology and data analytics.

As part of the $50 million investment, the Holberton School, a coding academy in San Francisco, is expected to open its third U.S. campus in Tulsa in early 2021. Billionaire George Kaiser made his money in oil and gas and banking and he opened The Gathering Place, a 66-acre park in Tulsa that's the largest public park in the country built with private funds, in 2018.

Several high-profile tech companies are planning a permanent work-from-home setup because of the pandemic and Tulsa might be a draw for workers and employers looking to exit big city life and rents, Schwinden said. For investors, this could be a good time to prepare for what is expected to be a bigger future for the city.

"There's an opportunity for Tulsa to better prepare with the help of developers, investors and especially the local community, which can play a big role in these industrial parks," Schwinden added.

Social media giant Facebook plans to hire remote employees in areas such as Dallas, Denver and Atlanta and pay them salaries based on their location, a move that could save Facebook a substantial amount considering the average annual tech salary in its hometown in Silicon Valley is $136,060, the highest in the nation, according to CBRE.

Growth Potential

Tulsa ranked as one of the 25 smaller markets to watch this year for growth potential for fostering tech talent development, according to CBRE's Scoring Tech Talent report. Tulsa had 13,040 tech workers in 2019, up 34% over the past year, with an average salary of $77,701, according to CBRE. Austin, meanwhile, ranked No. 6 on the report out of large markets and had 76,270 tech jobs in 2019, up 16.7% since 2014, paying an average annual salary of $95,416, according to CBRE.

Still, Tulsa has a high concentration of energy companies and is expected to be hurt by low oil prices. Energy companies have been hesitant to add jobs back, and consolidation and closings are disrupting Tulsa's office sector, according to a CoStar market analytics report.

And Austin's commercial real estate growth in the past decade has an edge over Tulsa in terms of two high-profile cultural factors: The Austin music scene is so strong it fostered the television program and festival Austin City Limits, which gave that city a national profile. Austin also is home to the well-known University of Texas at Austin, which provides so much trained technology workers that global companies like Google, Facebook and Apple have opened offices in the city. Those names often result in smaller tech companies popping up in the same area.

Even so, Tesla's Musk said on an earnings call last week when it posted its fourth consecutive quarter of positive profits that the Fortune 500 company will consider Tulsa for future expansions. That "bodes well for the future" of the city, said Bill Murphy, who oversaw economic development for the Tulsa Regional Chamber during the Tesla search. He now holds a deputy secretary role with the Kansas Department of Commerce.

"This reflects the community at large really put forward a positive image of the state and the community and we were able to compete with a world class city like Austin," Murphy said in an interview. "To have Elon Musk mention your city in an earnings call is every economic developer's dream."

As far as proceeding on any immediate large-scale development, the Tulsa area has three sites ready to go. MidAmerica Industrial Park is a business area involved in large industrial deals with tenant companies such as DuPont and Google, officials said.

Other sites being heavily marketed by Tulsa leaders include the Peoria Mohawk Business Park, an industrial area developed by the George Kaiser Family Foundation and the city of Tulsa in a partnership to drive business to north Tulsa, and the Claremore Industrial Park in Claremore, Oklahoma. Other sites near Tulsa, including in Broken Arrow and Muskogee, are also development possibilities.

Justin McLaughlin, executive vice president and chief operating officer for the Tulsa Regional Chamber, said finding large industrial development areas across the country can be difficult, but the Tulsa region has several "shovel ready" sites ready to go.

"You don't get looked at for these large projects unless you have the sites," said McLaughlin, who also is interim senior vice president for economic development, in an interview. "This put us on the radar screen with consultants and now there's a lot of information out there on us."

Murphy agrees, adding "this kind of publicity will pay dividends for another couple of months to a year."

They kinda stepped on their point by touting the attraction of an Amazon fulfillment center.  I mean, where does Amazon NOT have a fulfillment center?  (Hint: they are building one in Des Moines too, and one in Little Rock)  They currently have about 164 fulfillment centers in the US and are opening another 16 (including Tulsa) this year.  Getting one's first Amazon fulfillment center in 2020 doesn't tell us much about a city other than that it is a mid-sized metro area (perhaps a slightly under-achieving one).


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 31, 2020, 03:31:44 pm
I've been saying this for years and those that have been on this forum awhile are probably rolling their eyes: invest in higher education and it will pay dividends.  That is the missing ingredient Tulsa needs to take the next step.  The University of Tulsa, even as a private institution, should be leading the way and expanding.  They need to be more like a Vanderbilt or TCU.  And OSU and OU-Tulsa need to be full 4 year universities with residential campuses in their respective parts of town (Greenwood for OSU and midtown for OU).  

OSU Health Sciences/OSU Med Center/VA Hospital should be a medical complex on par with OU's in OKC.  And OSU should have all of its research programs and facilities in Tulsa.  The flagship undergraduate campus will always be in Stillwater but the bulk of graduate programs as well as undergrad programs in engineering, science, technology and business should be offered in Tulsa.  Look no further than Nebraska for how to operate a flagship campus (UNL) as well as an urban research campus (UNO) or the University of Colorado with Boulder and Denver.




Me too!  True!

Dallas and Texas in general didn't get the likes of Texas Instruments (Geophysical Service, Inc) by not having decent technical education!  As much as I like to tease Texas about being Baja Oklahoma, and some of the other crap they pull, technically, they shine!

And the eye rollers are just ignorant mouth breathers who don't understand much beyond how to pull a t-shirt over their head!   And half the time they get that inside out!


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Jake on August 04, 2020, 08:03:40 am
https://youtu.be/5ZZTBUtmX3M

Perspective from Musk himself on why Austin was chosen.

When asked about Oklahoma: "Wasn't a matter of who wanted Tesla. There's a critical mass of engineering and management that are needed to create this factory. There are a lot of smart talented people; it's not like just dropping a copy machine somewhere. The factory is the product more than the car. So it matters where these really talented people are willing to go and what is an uphill battle. Austin was not an uphill battle; that's why we picked Austin."

Also said there will be a 3rd gigafactory but said it would likely be in the northeast U.S. in the next 4-5 years, so it's doubtful Tulsa will ever get a Tesla factory.

Oklahoma simply doesn't have the education centers like Austin or other large cities do.

On the bright side, maybe all this national attention will attract another call center to Tulsa?


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: SXSW on August 04, 2020, 08:46:51 am
https://youtu.be/5ZZTBUtmX3M

Perspective from Musk himself on why Austin was chosen.

When asked about Oklahoma: "Wasn't a matter of who wanted Tesla. There's a critical mass of engineering and management that are needed to create this factory. There are a lot of smart talented people; it's not like just dropping a copy machine somewhere. The factory is the product more than the car. So it matters where these really talented people are willing to go and what is an uphill battle. Austin was not an uphill battle; that's why we picked Austin."

Also said there will be a 3rd gigafactory but said it would likely be in the northeast U.S. in the next 4-5 years, so it's doubtful Tulsa will ever get a Tesla factory.

Oklahoma simply doesn't have the education centers like Austin or other large cities do.

On the bright side, maybe all this national attention will attract another call center to Tulsa?

If Reno and Buffalo can attract a Tesla factory so can Tulsa.  There is an electric truck factory in Normal, Illinois (Rivian).  We lost this round but are very much in the game, maybe not specifically for Tesla but other advanced manufacturing companies.  To my point though we need to better invest in higher education and part of that is having TU raise its profile as an engineering/technology hub which is attainable.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on August 04, 2020, 09:49:35 am
If Reno and Buffalo can attract a Tesla factory so can Tulsa.  There is an electric truck factory in Normal, Illinois (Rivian).  We lost this round but are very much in the game, maybe not specifically for Tesla but other advanced manufacturing companies.  To my point though we need to better invest in higher education and part of that is having TU raise its profile as an engineering/technology hub which is attainable.

Agreed, I do think Tesla will build the next plant for cars likely in the Northeast. Given what someone else said about their delivery model being different (direct to consumers) that makes total sense they would want a factory in the Mid Atlantic or Northeast.

I still think when they get around to building the semi, Tulsa is probably the perfect location for it given our location in the Central US and near major trucking companies and people like Walmart who would be huge customers of the semi.

Even if Telsa doesn't come to Tulsa even, there's other electric car makers (Rivian, Fisker, Nikola, etc.) that all likely have Tulsa on their list now to at least scope out for future plants given we were a finalist for Tesla.

I have hope that Kaiser's involvement with TU will transform the university into something similar to Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh. That has been such a huge boost for that city that once was largely in the same category of other rust belt cities and now has become one of the biggest tech hubs in the Northeast for things like self driving cars. I'm encourage by the sectors they are focusing on like drones tech. OSU has probably the nations best drone programs in the nation and we've done little to capture much from that in partnering with tech firms. TU is also fairly well known for cyber security and further growing that sector which is a focus for the Kaiser foundation I think will pay off too, this will become a key sector of technology going forward not just for the civic side (cities, state, federal govt) but also for private firms like banks, etc. and we could become a hub for companies security divisions.

I find more to be encouraged about all of this and I just hope we don't go back to sleep, which I feel a lot of our leadership has been for the past several decades and actually use this moment to move forward with things we need to improve upon like higher education and research which is the catalyst for being an attractive market for expansion of most tech companies. 


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on August 04, 2020, 11:05:00 am
Agreed, I do think Tesla will build the next plant for cars likely in the Northeast. Given what someone else said about their delivery model being different (direct to consumers) that makes total sense they would want a factory in the Mid Atlantic or Northeast.

I still think when they get around to building the semi, Tulsa is probably the perfect location for it given our location in the Central US and near major trucking companies and people like Walmart who would be huge customers of the semi.

Even if Telsa doesn't come to Tulsa even, there's other electric car makers (Rivian, Fisker, Nikola, etc.) that all likely have Tulsa on their list now to at least scope out for future plants given we were a finalist for Tesla.

I have hope that Kaiser's involvement with TU will transform the university into something similar to Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh. That has been such a huge boost for that city that once was largely in the same category of other rust belt cities and now has become one of the biggest tech hubs in the Northeast for things like self driving cars. I'm encourage by the sectors they are focusing on like drones tech. OSU has probably the nations best drone programs in the nation and we've done little to capture much from that in partnering with tech firms. TU is also fairly well known for cyber security and further growing that sector which is a focus for the Kaiser foundation I think will pay off too, this will become a key sector of technology going forward not just for the civic side (cities, state, federal govt) but also for private firms like banks, etc. and we could become a hub for companies security divisions.

I find more to be encouraged about all of this and I just hope we don't go back to sleep, which I feel a lot of our leadership has been for the past several decades and actually use this moment to move forward with things we need to improve upon like higher education and research which is the catalyst for being an attractive market for expansion of most tech companies. 

Musk has already said the semi will also be built in Austin.  "In addition to the Cybertruck, Tesla will also build Model Ys and Model 3s destined for the East Coast, as well as the Tesla Semi," Musk said.  https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/22/21334860/tesla-cybertruck-factory-austin-texas-location-model-y


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Jake on August 04, 2020, 11:25:05 am
Reno and Buffalo are battery factories, which are very different from what Austin will be getting. Could Tulsa get a battery factory in the future? Possibly, and I agree that there's some positive momentum moving forward for something similar for Tulsa, which would be really cool.

But for the management positions that the Austin facility will include, Tulsa was never a real possibility. The higher-ups at Tesla were never going to choose Tulsa over Austin for that.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: LandArchPoke on August 04, 2020, 04:22:29 pm
Musk has already said the semi will also be built in Austin.  "In addition to the Cybertruck, Tesla will also build Model Ys and Model 3s destined for the East Coast, as well as the Tesla Semi," Musk said.  https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/22/21334860/tesla-cybertruck-factory-austin-texas-location-model-y


Not that I'm an expert on this, but just seems like given the amount of cars they produce from their existing plant in Fremont that if they plan to grow at the rate many predict I'd bet at some point sooner or later they need a dedicated Semi plant in addition to an east coast plant. Some of that will depend on the popularity of the cybertruck and if they plan a second truck (which Elon has said is likely if demand for a less edgy design is not as popular as they hope). I'd imagine they start production of the semi in Austin but would likely need its own dedicated plant for that at some point.


Title: Re: Tesla's Big F***ing Field
Post by: Oil Capital on August 06, 2020, 06:34:05 am

Great....(sarcastically)....just what we need - another battery plant here.  As if Picher wasn't bad enough... What new part of the state can we render uninhabitable next?  Between lead and big oil, just try to get a decent water well in NE Oklahoma!






Toto, stop pulling on that curtain!