The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

If you move to a suburb for "cheap" housing, you take it as is. Don't come asking me as a taxpayer to spend a few billion dollars to make your commute easier. You chose to live there and didn't absorb the cost of a new road. I feel the same about road widening.

I believe all roads should be electronic toll roads (and or privately built and maintained). Only those using the road should pay for it. The more you drive, the more roads you go over, the more you pay. Wider roads and intersections cost more. Highways cost more. etc.

Bixby specifically has fully developed areas served by small 2 lane roads without any sidewalks or bike trails. Once they convince me that they have the power to fix those issues, we can talk about helping them get more land.

I believe all roads should be electronic toll roads (and or privately built and maintained). Only those using the road should pay for it. The more you drive, the more roads you go over, the more you pay. Wider roads and intersections cost more. Highways cost more. etc.

Back to that discussion?

We really need to think of ourselves as a region, not a bunch of fiefdoms.

I don't think Bixby needs an expressway but another bridge over the Arkansas River would go a long way to reducing traffic intensity on Memorial.  So far the rich folks on Yale have stopped even a toll bridge in that area.

Public transit is almost never without subsidies.  Do you believe all the money for MTTA comes from within Tulsa City limits?

If you want to hear your neighbor talking in the kitchen, move to Tulsa.  But even that won't help in sections of mid-town.

What do you mean by that?

I've lived in Tulsa a long time and have never heard neighbors talking in their kitchens in any house. Are there parts of Tulsa where the construction was so lousy and thin-walled and compact that you can hear your neighbors talking in another house? If that's the case, is that unique to Tulsa and not in the suburbs? It seems like there's more low-quality subdivisions in the suburbs.

If you move to a suburb for "cheap" housing, you take it as is. Don't come asking me as a taxpayer to spend a few billion dollars to make your commute easier. You chose to live there and didn't absorb the cost of a new road. I feel the same about road widening.

You never go out past about 21st and Peoria?? 

It's a shared experience that does actually benefit all.  If you go by that logic, then downtown should receive the smallest bit of support from taxes, since it is what, maybe 3 or 4% of our metro land area?   Or maybe should just put a toll booth at 21st for anyone leaving town....

Not trying to go off on a tangent too much, but according to https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/analysis-downtown-tulsa-accounts-07-city-land-20-sales-tax-collections (https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/analysis-downtown-tulsa-accounts-07-city-land-20-sales-tax-collections), Downtown is closer to half a percentage of the metro land area

The pointless Gilcrease loop under construction in west Tulsa should have been built as a turnpike connecting 151st to the southwest corner of the Creek turnpike around south Broken Arrow. But that ship has sailed and with more and more houses built in that potential path and the money spent on Gilcrease.

I think creating a tollway connecting I-44 then wraps around sapulpa through glendpool and Bixby, cross the River and connect to the turnpike would be great.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the toll calculator and planned a route using the Kilpatrick from west of OKC to the Turner & I-35 and was floored by the price difference between toll tag and plate pay.

A national tag would be great, but getting 20 some odd turnpike authorities to agree on one system is doubtful, which is surprising since OTR truckers have ID transponders for truck scales where they actually weigh the truck while it's moving.

The federal government has required interoperability since 2016. It has just never worked. It works regionally now, but not nationwide.

Here is more news regarding the fastly growing suburb of Bixby. As of May of 2022, the city of Bixby has a $30 million dollar development in downtown. (Their biggest development planned ever at the moment. Expect more of these in the near future after this is done with construction) The project will be along 151st street and Memorial behind the CVS Pharmacy. The development will include 150 luxury apartments which will have 4 additional stories. It will include a workout facility and a pool. On the ground level, there will be 15,000 sq ft of retail and a 300 car parking car garage. This will be a major development for Bixby and expect things to grow exponentially especially downtown in the next 5-10 years which will look extremely different than it is now. Here is a link to the story with renderings:

https://www.newson6.com/story/62798c7aeaecee07218f87d7/bixby-announces-major-downtown-development-announcement-

Also to keep a note, the city of Bixby passed a $110 million bond issue to build and improve the High school (With upgrades to their athletic facilities as well including the increase of the football stadium capacity). This is a sign that the suburb is growing rapidly, and only to see the suburbs' stock rise in the next couple of decades.

https://www.krmg.com/news/bixby-parents-vote-110-million-bond-build-new-high-school-academic-building/MBKSB3U4VFHUTGUDGQ54C6YZBU/

Here are the renderings of the new High school academic building:

https://kktarchitects.com/projects/bixby-high-school-academic-building/

The federal government has required interoperability since 2016. It has just never worked. It works regionally now, but not nationwide.

And I will reiterate, don't expect me to pay taxes to make your environment destroying commute easier.

As for gas/diesel taxes to pay for roads, Arizona got smart back in the mid 80's and proposed and passed by the voters a half cent sales tax specifically for transportation, highways/arterial streets/public transportation.

This site: https://igentax.com/gas-tax-state/  indicates that AZ also has an $0.18/gal tax on gas and the same or $0.26/gal for diesel.  They don't clarify the "or".  Oklahoma is $0.19/gal for gas and $0.16/gal for diesel.

I don't believe a tax specifically for transportation etc will work in OK.  We have a history of passing a tax to fund something specific and then take the money already being spent on that to spend on something else.

Arizona House Bill 2292, which passed in the spring 2003 session of the Arizona Legislature, established the Maricopa Association of Governments Transportation Policy Committee which was tasked with developing a Regional Transportation Plan for Maricopa County, and established the process for an election to extend the current half-cent County Transportation Excise Tax. On November 2, 2004, voters in Maricopa County approved Proposition 400 to extend the half-cent sales tax for transportation for an additional 20 years to 2026. The extension began January 1, 2006 and ends on December 31, 2025.

In accordance with Arizona Revised Statutes §42-6105.E, 56.2 percent of the Proposition 400 sales tax collections is distributed to freeways and state highways; 10.5 percent is distributed to arterial street improvements; and 33.3 percent is distributed to the public transportation fund. The Regional Transportation Plan thus has three major components: Freeways/Highways, Arterial Streets, and Transit.

The Regional Transportation Plan Freeway Program includes new freeway corridors to serve growth in the region, and improvements to the existing system of freeways and highways to reduce current and future congestion and improve safety. The work includes new freeway corridors, additional lanes on existing facilities, and new interchanges at arterial cross streets, high occupancy vehicle ramps at system interchanges, noise mitigation, litter and landscape maintenance programs, freeway management systems, and freeway service patrols.

The Regional Transportation Plan Freeway Program is funded by three primary revenue sources: the Proposition 400 half-cent sales tax, ADOT funds dedicated for use in Maricopa County, and federal highway funds.

For nearly 40 years, a half-cent voter-approved sales tax has helped pay for roads, freeways and transit needs in Maricopa County as the region grew its population and economy robustly.

The time to re-up that critical commitment has come.

The cities in Maricopa County have unanimously asked that Arizona lawmakers pass House Bill 2598 and Senate Bill 1356 to put the expiring transportation sales tax on the Nov. 8 ballot for renewal.

The tax, first passed by voters in 1985 and reauthorized in 2004, is set to expire in 2025. Without an extension, both the county’s regional transportation plan and the funding will lapse.

Maricopa County cannot afford to fall behind.

These investments made us who we are
In 1980, the county boasted a little more than 1.5 million people. The only freeway serving the area was the Interstate 17 running through central Phoenix and ending near Sky Harbor International Airport.

Four decades later, Maricopa County’s population has nearly tripled to 4.4 million people and is again the fastest-growing in the United States – adding more than 81,000 people to the Valley in 2018 alone.

The economic attractiveness of our region is undeniable. We are blessed with incredible natural beauty, superb weather and a comparatively low cost of living.

The visionary leaders who came before us laid the groundwork for the infrastructure necessary to sustain and accommodate this economic miracle.

In 1985, government and business leaders throughout Maricopa County came together to pass Proposition 300 to fund the county’s first regional transportation plan. Their success launched one of the largest highway construction programs in the United States. Proposition 300 included 231 miles of new freeways including the acquisition of land to begin the construction of Loop 101, Loop 202, Loop 303 and State Route 51.

In 2004, once again, regional governments and business leaders came together to pass Proposition 400, a 20-year extension of the half-cent sales tax to fund:

Construction of Loop 202, the South Mountain Freeway, and Loop 303, the Estrella Freeway.
Additional lanes on I-10, I-17, SR 51, Loop 101 and Loop 202.
Improvements to the Grand Avenue stretch of U.S. 60.
Improvements to 36 intersections.
Construction of more than 225 miles of new or improved roadways.
Contributions toward bus service on the regional supergrid and “express” commuter bus service.
Construction of light rail extensions in Mesa, Tempe and Phoenix.
Regionwide paratransit service for seniors and persons with disabilities.
­Four of five jobs in Maricopa County are within two miles of a freeway or light rail corridor. More than half of the major employers are located within a half mile of these corridors.