The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

There is concern over a proposed zoning change that could make residential driveways wider than city streets:

http://midtowntulsahomes.com/2018/04/27/expanded-driveway-zoning-amendment-threatens-midtown/


The Home Builders Association of Greater Tulsa wants wider curb-cuts for 3-car driveways, or as much as half the frontage paved.

The following points, made in a letter to the TMAPC by the Bicycle/Pedestrian Advisory Committee further illustrate why this proposal is contrary to building a more livable city:

    Driveways, by definition, cross pedestrian pathways. Wider driveways increase the size of this conflict zone and reduce the comfort and safety of people who walk.
    Wide driveways enable higher driving speeds on residential streets and encourage drivers to make faster turns. The extra width allows for a wide turn radius and eliminates the need to slow while approaching a turn.
    Wide driveways are associated with street-facing multi-car garages.  Street-facing garages mean more blank walls, fewer windows, and fewer “eyes on the street.”
    Wider driveways mean more asphalt and less green space. They contribute to heat islands, eliminate space for shade trees, and increase runoff to local stormwater sewer systems.

Again...we need alleys..again.

What ever came of this, was it passed by TMAPC?

It was postponed until the proletariat loose interest.

Great idea...Let's go backwards...

I though everyone one wanted Tulsa to be the utopian dream of bicycles, Uber, car sharing of electric cars, trolleys, street cars, light rail, high speed rail, no gas pumps, and everyone walked or pedaled everywhere unless you needed to use an app to use a car by the hour?  ::)

Half the frontage paved...  that sounds like an attractive residential area.

Expand on that thought.

It wasn't a thought...   But I would love to see him try to expand on that or even express a thought!!

Yes.  Backwards to where there was actually architectural style in housing with the necessary utility related items at the back, unseen from the front, on a service access link - like gas meters, electric meters, trash pickup, entry to garage.

As opposed to the "pinnacle" of 20th century design - the big honking garage at the front of the house!   Oh, it is soooo attractive for the main architectural feature to be a barn door!!   Never.

I think Chimney Hills must be the ultimate delusion about 'classy design' in Tulsa.  They are beyond anal (Breadburner is gonna get a thrill here) in their embracing the garage as the central architectural feature - and the HOA...well, it's just not 'all that and a bag of chips' for classy housing design.

But hey, if you think that is attractive, well it just shows how all of your taste is in your mouth.

Ultimate expression of the American Dream of home ownership!   


For builders, realtors, and property tax entities...

On the agenda again, Wednesday, June 6th, at 1:30 at 175 E. 2nd St., 2nd Level, One Technology Center, Tulsa City Council Chamber.

Somebody will pay somebody and something will pass...

Probably a "consulting fee"...one prominent ex-State Senator's 'consulting gig' consisted of selling carport plans to 'clients'.  Ran about $20,000 or so for the set of detailed plans with drawings, ready to have built by the carport assembler of your choice!  Got to see and actually hold one of those sets of plans one time in the deep dark past!  Great work if you can get it!

One of three things needs to happen here with most people in Tulsa now owning more than two vehicles, RV's, or boats.

1) Enforce no curbside parking longer than four hours. (Will never happen. Waste of police resources.)
2) Widen residential streets so vehicles can park by the curb, on both sides, and it not be a visibility hazard. Happening already in some new neighborhoods but not others.
3) Widen driveways to allow for three vehicles to park side by side.

They're all poison but, one has to be chosen.

Probably so.   But at the same time, they COULD start planning better for the future so that 10, 20, 30, 50 years from now, all the new areas are done better...  My bet is that will never happen.

Where I currently live the north ingress to get to my house from the closest major arterial (Admiral) is a nightmare.  It travels about 2.5 blocks south (straight south) before it bends southeastward for about a block before a 3 way tee stop that I turn right to get to my home.

Way too many cars park in the street here and it's like automobile slalom course to survive it with that bend in the road.  Add to that on weekends I deal with Flea Market traffic as well (I live not far from the Traffic Circle) and most weekends I'd almost rather stay home untll 5pm or later, which is when the flea market closes and traffic subsides.  I try and travel south to 11th and deal with it that way but sometimes that's not an option.  I'd agree that wider driveways would be a plus.  And it's not just a hazard driving with all the cars parked in the streets.  There have been several times these cars conceal playing children who all of a sudden appear from behind one of these cars and my brakes get a test.

About 25 years ago because of just this hazard, my father (passed away now) hit a 6 year old on a bicycle who popped out from behind a vehicle parked in the street.  Didn't hurt her too badly, but he felt guilty about it for months.  I dare say years.  And it really wasn't his fault.  Not necessarily the girl's fault either.  At some point, parenting has to play a role, but I digress.

I like your train of thought. But I disagree. If every house has three vehicles, nearly every house has a garage and 2 spaces in the driveway.  If they have 4, there is room for at least one vehicle from every house to park on one side of the road (and thereby not clog the road entirely, which we also don't enforce).  If every household has 4 or more vehicles, plus boats or RVs, then its time for them to find a storage solution for their toys. "I have too much crap" is a lousy reason to downgrade livability.


#1 is a no-go.  We can't even enforce the "don't park in your dang front yard" ordinance. Heck, we haven't figured out parking meters efficiently yet.

#2 is something I would vehemently fight. I have zero interest in paying for wider streets or giving up my yard for the purpose of helping people with too much crap find a place for it all.  Heck, in my neighborhood we would have to move meters, cut down trees, and, of course, actually pay to redo streets that haven't been redone since the 1950s. Not gonna happen.

#3 is giving in that because people want to have too much crap and can't be mildly inconvenienced we just need to put up with ugly.

For some reason we have been able to survive without fully paved front yards for 100 years in Tulsa. Suddenly this is a necessity?  Here's a solution, build your garage taller...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DdNom8eNL.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/Auto-Lift-Car-Park-8-Storage-Parking/dp/B00KQZYAO6

Actual facts:
Approximately 9% of Tulsa households do not own a single vehicle.
In 2016, the average number of vehicles per Tulsa household was 1.6.

Thus, “most people” do not in fact own more than two cars.

I don’t think the census counts boats and RVs, but I can also say that very few people in my neighborhood store boats or RVs at home.

As for residential streets, I challenge you to find a steeet that is not already wide enough for two parked cars and a travel lane. Residential streets are between 20-30 feet wide, depending on when they were built.

Most residential additions have covenants to prevent boats, trailers, etc.  At least for a couple dozen years until the covenants expire....

People care about the homeless. Nobody cares about the boatless.

Hey!  I care about the boatless...I am one and I 'need' a boat!!  Small hunting/fishing boat with a 10 hp motor would be great!

I work in plenty of homes that have more than a 2 car garage, sometimes up to 5 or more car garages or multiple garages and they have 1 or 2 car "wide" driveways.  They have little court yards or parking areas offset from the driveway or garages.  There is no need for a wider cut through the curb or through sidewalk areas.

Richmond, Sandusky, Toledo, Urbana, Vandalia, etc

Ever been in the neighborhood south of the fairgrounds during the state fair?

You mean the ones that do not allow parking on at least one side during the state fair?  Those are all 26 feet wide.  Just like PonderInc said. 

And designing/modifying all city streets to cope with a location specific once a year event would be goofy.  Just like the north parking lot at Target on Yale, we could pave a ton of extra space for parking and then watch it sit empty 99% of the time.  Bad use of resources.