The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

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We let the 'burbs try it first to see if anyones heads exploded, now its time for Tulsa to give serious consideration to adding a flashing yellow arrow at some intersections to ease unnecessary congestion.

"Flashing yellow left turn signals allow both protective and permissive left turns and were installed to ease traffic flow at the intersection.  Previously, a driver attempting to turn left may have sat at a red light while there was no oncoming traffic. The new lights will flash a yellow arrow and allow the driver to turn left and avoid "unnecessary delays" when through lanes have a red light but there's no oncoming traffic."

Broken Arrow and Sand Springs have them, and there was one scheduled to be installed at 81st w ave & Charles page, but has anyone seen one on the city proper?

We have lots of good candidates for congestion-busting; 27th & Harvard (Broken Arrow Expressway underpass clusterflock) would be one place I might suggest.  When I pitched that to the MAC the response was "we dont have the parts, case closed."

I drive through BA quite a bit and those things are truly brilliant!!   Shame someone didn't figure this out many years ago!!

So... its like a green light.

They were just getting to installing them in my last year in Norman. I'm not sure if there was any noticeable difference between them and other setups (though I only had a few months of experience as a pedestrian and driver on those streets). Other than a lot of vocal opposition to them, which again, was probably finally giving up around the time I moved.

One of my co-workers doesn't think they are so great.  A young driver coming from the opposite direction thought it was like a regular yellow, one you could run because the "cross" traffic didn't have a green yet.  Yep, turned left just in front of him.  Significant front end damage to my co-worker's truck.  The brand new car of the young driver was presumably totaled.  I think it was probably another Master's or PHD thesis that someone just had to try.

More like a Yield sign that is traffic-aware.

What's a traffic light? What's congestion?

Man I feel blessed those days are over for me.

Yep. This revolutionary "new" traffic device is exactly like a green light.  You can turn left when clear. 

Of course, the concept isn't new and the flashing yellow isn't new either.  You see the sporadically in other places.  I find they cause me to pause for a moment to make sure the light isn't turning red and verify that it is a flashing yellow.

I'm not sure what the advantage is over a green light for "turn if you can" and a green arrow for"go go go."

That's more related to the young driver having not retained any of the drivers manual he/she was trained on.  But mostly texting.

Owasso has had those in a few intersections for a year or so and yea, most folks treat them the same as a yellow light although some are confused and just sit there.

Like that, but it costs thousands of dollars more and gives jobs to several brother-in-laws and cousins.

Next thing you know, we'll have back-in pasrking spaces on one-way streets...

Serious question: why are flashing yellow arrows an improvement to a solid green light?

They don't bother me, I just don't understand why it is supposed to be an improvement.  If it isn't an improvement, why do it?  If it isn't an improvement, costs money, and introduces confusion... 

Someone cure my ignorance.

Best I can figure out is it reminds people in the left turn lane to yield before turning, as opposed to thinking you dont have to if the signal is solid green.

Ive seen turn lanes pile up because they wait at a red light when there is no other traffic at all.

Scenario;
Traffic coming the other way has a green.  Left turn green on your side implies you have a right of way.  Flashing yellow left arrow means the same thing, but can go if the oncoming is clear.  Yellow left arrow implies about to change, I guess - also means yield but go.    The ones I have seen, the yellow left turns solid yellow arrow when it is ready to change.   Probably an extra level of 'training' needed, but looking at the sign and the flashing yellow arrow, it is (should be) a quick learn.  Well, for most...

So rather than train people the way it has always been done - let's spend a bunch of money to both change the system and retain everyone.

Yep.  Seems to be the way...   Anytime 'new' person comes into a place, they gotta put their 'stink' on whatever it is.  Regardless of how well it works already.


This particular one works pretty well for me, when the oncoming  has a green light, but light traffic - I don't have to sit through an entire other cycle.  That's the big benefit I see for it.

We do it all the time.  How much taxpayer money went to buy and shrinkwrap-decal the EnDUI van despite the main spokesman's statements that it actually accomplishes nothing?

I have no idea how we could compare the cost to 'train people the way it has always been done' (however long its been done that way) versus the cost of providing another traffic control option.  The feds gave their blessing to it years ago, so there might be some money attached to it.
We just wont know till we give it a try, and im thinking one or two signals and not the whole county.

Yeah, I don't buy the reasoning.

If there is a large number of people who don't realize you have to yield to turn left with a green light we'd have hundreds if not thousands of left turn related crashed in Tulsa everyday.  I simply don't see people thinking green means the same thing as green-arrow.  I don't think that is a real problem, so there isn't a need for a new "solution" to it.

And we are also going to install them for right turn on red?  Basically adding a light to make sure people know basic rules of the road?

My God.  Maybe we just need to start revoking licenses instead.  If people are so ignorant of the basics, they shouldn't be driving.

/and get off my lawn

In general, they are that ignorant.  It's Oklahoma...where we have gutted education by 30%.   Missing 1/3 of the education they should receive.

Rather than forcing people to be accountable and responsible for their actions, we just need more multicolored lights and flashy signals.   

Maybe to save money we could go back to 4-way stop signs and let nature take its course, but there will be collateral damage.

FIFY.

Oh dear God no!  One light was out on my way to work and people either sit there like a bird that's just run into a window or drive frantically through the intersection like a scared cat.  I acquiesce the point that many people are simply not capable of figuring out four way stops. Here's a work around for people having issues:

Sadly, the damage is as likely to be to people following the rules as it is to people just winging it.  So I don't think we can let this one sort itself out.

I thought about just writing "natural selection" but decided against it, but yes.

The point being a signalized intersection is much more complicated than four metal signs, yet people seem to have better luck adapting.  Maybe a flashing yellow arrow is more useful as a prompt? 

Tulsa has left-turn lanes that only have an arrow and no green light.  You can sit at a red light there with not another car in sight.

That is the circumstance I really like about the flashing yellows....don't have to wait an extra full light cycle.

I was recently in a city where the stoplights are timed to pedestrians.  At a normal if not semi-fast walking pace a pedestrian will hit every light as they walk down the street. 

San Francisco has been that way for years.   You have to walk pretty quickly, but you will hit every green.  The city is timed for pedestrians, not cars.

Went through 4 of them in Moore and Norman today and 1 out in Broken Arrow this afternoon.   Still liking it.

Tulsa is beginning to phase in new traffic signals with a flashing yellow arrow for permissive left turns. The first four of these new traffic signals will begin operating on Tuesday, October 1, at the following intersections:

    East 46th Street North and U.S. Highway 169
    East 46th Street North and 125th East Avenue
    East 36th Street North and Garnett Road
    West 81st Street South and Olympia Avenue

Also, soon to follow will be another flashing yellow arrow signal at West 71st Street and Tulsa Hills.

The flashing yellow arrow directs traffic in the left-turn lane in the same way as the green “ball,” which indicated that a driver must yield to oncoming traffic or pedestrians before turning left.

On these new traffic signals, the arrow for the left-turn lane will be either steady red, steady yellow, flashing yellow or steady green. “Red” will continue to mean “stop.” Steady yellow will mean “prepare to stop.” Flashing yellow will mean “proceed with left turn after yielding to oncoming traffic or pedestrians;” and green will mean “proceed with left turn.”

Signals with flashing yellow arrows for left turns have been included in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices since 2009, the version which Oklahoma adopted in 2012. The new signals improve traffic flow and safety. They are most helpful at intersections with frequent traffic congestion, high traffic volumes and above-average accident rates.

https://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/tulsa-begins-phasing-new-flashing-yellow-arrow

Has been well over a year, and I have talked about how much I go to Broken Arrow, where the things are very common.  They are working well.  We (family/friends) are all liking them a lot.  Regularly get to go through a light where would be blocked otherwise.   Next to the criss-cross intersections like they put into Norman city streets over I-35 a couple of years ago, this is second best innovation in traffic control in decades.  Probably since right turn on red.

Huh, they aren't really associated with being more efficient for intersections. It is normally associated with reducing collisions. Though I guess if people are more alert during a flashing yellow than at a solid green circle than maybe they are able to take better advantage of breaks and also get into fewer accidents?

Don't know if more efficient or not.  Nor the accident rates.  Just know that they 'resonate' at some level with me (and several family/friends in BA) to the point where we all like them to varying degrees - some more than others, but all positive.