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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 12:50:18 pm



Title: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 12:50:18 pm
Quote
Office-retail development planned near Utica Square


A new mixed-use building with retail and office space is scheduled to rise soon across from Utica Square.

BAM Properties, a veteran developer in areas around the upscale shopping center, is behind a three-story, roughly 22,000-square-foot project at 2005 E. 21st St., site of the recently closed Goldie's Patio Grill.

Demolition and construction will begin this spring with completion set for the first quarter of 2019, said John and Chris Bumgarner, the father and son who head Bumgarner Asset Management.

"We think there is a shortage of offices in midtown," John Bumgarner said Thursday during an interview at Utica Plaza, another BAM property. "We think there is a shortage of new retail in this midtown. But we'll find out.

"What makes this site work and the reason it is a unique site is because there is a stoplight at Yorktown (Avenue). There is a stoplight at Wheeling (Avenue), so people can get in and out because of the break in traffic. Without those stoplights, this would be a congested, hard-to-access-egress site. Because of those stoplights, it's perfect."

Designed by Miles Associates, the new development is at 21st Street and Xanthus Avenue and will have underground and surface parking. It also will feature the stucco-and-red-tile-roof look of other BAM properties in the area, such as Utica Plaza, Utica Place and 1515 South Utica.


"There are other examples of that style being able to stand the test of time," said Chris Bumgarner, alluding to shopping areas such as Country Club Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri, and Highland Park in Dallas. "It's pretty. It's more expensive construction than is typical so it should last longer."

The Bumgarners' downtown portfolio includes the 320 South Boston Building, Mid-Continent Tower, Kennedy Building and a segment of Main Street. Over a period of more than 40 years, the family has purchased about 10 parcels in the Utica Square area, John Bumgarner said.

"It's been a solid place to develop and compete," he said.

His son added, "Obviously, Utica Square is the reason we're in this area. It's a unique, regional shopping center."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on February 08, 2018, 12:55:42 pm
Nice looking project.  When will Miss Jackson's/Petty's see something similar??

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/81/a81421d6-2b03-5fe3-9fa1-e9f2a64583ef/5a7c98338f316.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C776)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 01:00:54 pm
It looks like the developer owns the Goldie's lot and the lot with a parking lot, one lot over (both of those owned by "2005 E 21ST LLC C/O CROW CORP" which look like they're part of Bumgarner's company).

The lot in between those (just empty fenced lot) is owned by "AD&ED LAND LLC" who bought it from St John's for $341k last September! That is pretty pricey for a single empty lot!


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 01:08:32 pm
Nice looking project.  When will Miss Jackson's/Petty's see something similar??


Yeah, and considering it will add below-ground parking and replace a parking lot, and empty lot and an ugly old building, this is a big win for the area.

I was just in Utica Park a couple weeks ago and thought about how ugly and out of place Goldie's looked there. It was unsightly and a big eye sore and kinda kills the Utica area vibe. There was a time when german-house style would've fit in better, but this new building will fit in much better with the buildings and newer developments around there now.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: patric on February 08, 2018, 01:16:00 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html)

Looks like the same glarebomb lights CVS put in at 15th & Utica.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: BKDotCom on February 08, 2018, 04:01:40 pm
Looks like the same glarebomb lights CVS put in at 15th & Utica.

Is there a reason we like this development but not?
(http://architectural-models.com/assets/images/Utica-Place-Condominium-Site-Model-2.jpg)
?


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2018, 09:15:17 am
I don't think people disliked the development, but we did mock the faux Tuscan design.  Which is consistent with my opinion of this development:  that is to say, I think its a great fit for the area, I love the density, use of space, and mixed use component.  But I'm not a fan of the Tuscan style - which is just a matter of opinion.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 09, 2018, 10:03:28 am
Is there a reason we like this development but not?
?

I've always liked that one well enough. Neither are amazing developments but both look good and seem overall good for the area. The huge condo building looks a bit bizarre and almost shocking there, especially up close, but I think it fits in well enough, especially with so many similar style buildings nearby and it looks like it fits in well with the landscape seeing it from a distance.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 09, 2018, 10:20:44 am
I don't think people disliked the development, but we did mock the faux Tuscan design.  Which is consistent with my opinion of this development:  that is to say, I think its a great fit for the area, I love the density, use of space, and mixed use component.  But I'm not a fan of the Tuscan style - which is just a matter of opinion.

I can see how people don't like the over use of that style, but it can look better than most buildings when done right. At its worst, it can be terrible, but these 2 above examples are not that.

Here are a couple faux Italian buildings that are awful and give the style a bad name:

(https://urbanize.la/sites/default/files/styles/1140w/public/field/image/davinci.jpg?itok=05G5OOmh)

(https://images1.laweekly.com/imager/u/blog/7149270/orsini.png]https://images1.laweekly.com/imager/u/blog/7149270/orsini.png)

(https://images1.apartments.com/i2/-hdkz5NqGdeo8P5Zslt-OdVUF_Jh5Fg0FocJOe4dyZg/118/the-medici-los-angeles-ca-building-photo.jpg)

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/ladowntownnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/c3/8c3d6354-38bd-11e1-8198-001871e3ce6c/4f07829f14714.image.jpg)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on February 09, 2018, 11:23:41 am
Great use of space for the old Goldie's location. As for the style of both the new building and the tower on the south end of Utica Sq., I think it's a plus. There are now a collection of buildings in that immediate area that share the look, like the SW corner of 21st & Utica. The biggest concern is that something can look out of place, but that is mitigated when the neighboring buildings match. Also, it's not out of place considering Tulsa's history. There are a number of oil mansions that share the style. Look at Philbrook!


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: patric on February 09, 2018, 12:02:36 pm
Great use of space for the old Goldie's location. As for the style of both the new building and the tower on the south end of Utica Sq., I think it's a plus. There are now a collection of buildings in that immediate area that share the look, like the SW corner of 21st & Utica. The biggest concern is that something can look out of place, but that is mitigated when the neighboring buildings match. Also, it's not out of place considering Tulsa's history. There are a number of oil mansions that share the style. Look at Philbrook!

How neat if there were a new Goldies on the lower floor... or some other eatery to make up for the loss.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 08:50:11 am
This site has been fenced off for awhile, hopefully this is not another 14th & Utica (another Bumgarner site). 


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 09:01:13 am
This site has been fenced off for awhile, hopefully this is not another 14th & Utica (another Bumgarner site). 


Goldie's looked better than that.  Saw it a couple weeks ago - not an improvement.



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 10:54:45 am

Goldie's looked better than that.  Saw it a couple weeks ago - not an improvement.

I'll give Bumgarner credit, Utica Place and Utica Plaza are high quality projects.  I'm just surprised the 14th & Utica site has languished for as long as it has and want to see some movement there.  Same for this site across from Utica Square, though it has only been a few months.  Both are very high profile locations that will benefit greatly from urban development.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 11:07:24 am
I'll give Bumgarner credit, Utica Place and Utica Plaza are high quality projects.  I'm just surprised the 14th & Utica site has languished for as long as it has and want to see some movement there.  Same for this site across from Utica Square, though it has only been a few months.  Both are very high profile locations that will benefit greatly from urban development.


Utica Place kind of confuses me - first glance, I think Italianate, then looking a while, it seems more Spanish (Mediterranean.?)   







Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 11:17:47 am
I can see how people don't like the over use of that style, but it can look better than most buildings when done right. At its worst, it can be terrible, but these 2 above examples are not that.

Here are a couple faux Italian buildings that are awful and give the style a bad name:



We seem to be getting a significant selection of Italianate type buildings in midtown.  3 of those were just wrong, but the one with the swimming pool seemed about as authentic as anything else done in this country, given the realities of building for office, retail, hotel, etc, in the area...well, except for the pool..!   I got a feeling that a lot of what we look at and see as "Tuscan" from the old world is either incomplete - as they ran out of money to finish the building, or worn such that the outer stucco layer has come off, leaving the stones/bricks exposed the building is made from.

This design looks like it would fit in well enough and not be a detriment to the area, though...  Just my thoughts...



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 18, 2018, 11:33:01 am

We seem to be getting a significant selection of Italianate type buildings in midtown.  3 of those were just wrong, but the one with the swimming pool seemed about as authentic as anything else done in this country, given the realities of building for office, retail, hotel, etc, in the area...well, except for the pool..!   I got a feeling that a lot of what we look at and see as "Tuscan" from the old world is either incomplete - as they ran out of money to finish the building, or worn such that the outer stucco layer has come off, leaving the stones/bricks exposed the building is made from.

This design looks like it would fit in well enough and not be a detriment to the area, though...  Just my thoughts...




I love the Mediterranean look when done well but you're right that one with the pool is pretty typical of when that look is attempted in the US. It is better than those others and better than a generic apartment complex, but certainly not a remarkable piece of architecture and I can see why many would dislike it.

This new building seems pretty well designed and will fit in with other new buildings. Not stunningly beautiful or remarkable, but very nice.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 01:47:48 pm

I love the Mediterranean look when done well but you're right that one with the pool is pretty typical of when that look is attempted in the US. It is better than those others and better than a generic apartment complex, but certainly not a remarkable piece of architecture and I can see why many would dislike it.

This new building seems pretty well designed and will fit in with other new buildings. Not stunningly beautiful or remarkable, but very nice.

For better or worse it has become sort of a trademark of midtown architecture, which I assume ties back to Philbrook.  I honestly like the style and hope more of the infill around Utica Square looks similar.  Similar to the "white district" that formed around 35th & Peoria it can create a defining look for a particular area.