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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 12:50:18 pm



Title: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 12:50:18 pm
Quote
Office-retail development planned near Utica Square


A new mixed-use building with retail and office space is scheduled to rise soon across from Utica Square.

BAM Properties, a veteran developer in areas around the upscale shopping center, is behind a three-story, roughly 22,000-square-foot project at 2005 E. 21st St., site of the recently closed Goldie's Patio Grill.

Demolition and construction will begin this spring with completion set for the first quarter of 2019, said John and Chris Bumgarner, the father and son who head Bumgarner Asset Management.

"We think there is a shortage of offices in midtown," John Bumgarner said Thursday during an interview at Utica Plaza, another BAM property. "We think there is a shortage of new retail in this midtown. But we'll find out.

"What makes this site work and the reason it is a unique site is because there is a stoplight at Yorktown (Avenue). There is a stoplight at Wheeling (Avenue), so people can get in and out because of the break in traffic. Without those stoplights, this would be a congested, hard-to-access-egress site. Because of those stoplights, it's perfect."

Designed by Miles Associates, the new development is at 21st Street and Xanthus Avenue and will have underground and surface parking. It also will feature the stucco-and-red-tile-roof look of other BAM properties in the area, such as Utica Plaza, Utica Place and 1515 South Utica.


"There are other examples of that style being able to stand the test of time," said Chris Bumgarner, alluding to shopping areas such as Country Club Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri, and Highland Park in Dallas. "It's pretty. It's more expensive construction than is typical so it should last longer."

The Bumgarners' downtown portfolio includes the 320 South Boston Building, Mid-Continent Tower, Kennedy Building and a segment of Main Street. Over a period of more than 40 years, the family has purchased about 10 parcels in the Utica Square area, John Bumgarner said.

"It's been a solid place to develop and compete," he said.

His son added, "Obviously, Utica Square is the reason we're in this area. It's a unique, regional shopping center."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on February 08, 2018, 12:55:42 pm
Nice looking project.  When will Miss Jackson's/Petty's see something similar??

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/81/a81421d6-2b03-5fe3-9fa1-e9f2a64583ef/5a7c98338f316.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C776)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 01:00:54 pm
It looks like the developer owns the Goldie's lot and the lot with a parking lot, one lot over (both of those owned by "2005 E 21ST LLC C/O CROW CORP" which look like they're part of Bumgarner's company).

The lot in between those (just empty fenced lot) is owned by "AD&ED LAND LLC" who bought it from St John's for $341k last September! That is pretty pricey for a single empty lot!


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 08, 2018, 01:08:32 pm
Nice looking project.  When will Miss Jackson's/Petty's see something similar??


Yeah, and considering it will add below-ground parking and replace a parking lot, and empty lot and an ugly old building, this is a big win for the area.

I was just in Utica Park a couple weeks ago and thought about how ugly and out of place Goldie's looked there. It was unsightly and a big eye sore and kinda kills the Utica area vibe. There was a time when german-house style would've fit in better, but this new building will fit in much better with the buildings and newer developments around there now.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: patric on February 08, 2018, 01:16:00 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/office-retail-development-planned-near-utica-square/article_a09d134e-31e4-5fda-9f1e-348f8cc9167b.html)

Looks like the same glarebomb lights CVS put in at 15th & Utica.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: BKDotCom on February 08, 2018, 04:01:40 pm
Looks like the same glarebomb lights CVS put in at 15th & Utica.

Is there a reason we like this development but not?
(http://architectural-models.com/assets/images/Utica-Place-Condominium-Site-Model-2.jpg)
?


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2018, 09:15:17 am
I don't think people disliked the development, but we did mock the faux Tuscan design.  Which is consistent with my opinion of this development:  that is to say, I think its a great fit for the area, I love the density, use of space, and mixed use component.  But I'm not a fan of the Tuscan style - which is just a matter of opinion.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 09, 2018, 10:03:28 am
Is there a reason we like this development but not?
?

I've always liked that one well enough. Neither are amazing developments but both look good and seem overall good for the area. The huge condo building looks a bit bizarre and almost shocking there, especially up close, but I think it fits in well enough, especially with so many similar style buildings nearby and it looks like it fits in well with the landscape seeing it from a distance.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 09, 2018, 10:20:44 am
I don't think people disliked the development, but we did mock the faux Tuscan design.  Which is consistent with my opinion of this development:  that is to say, I think its a great fit for the area, I love the density, use of space, and mixed use component.  But I'm not a fan of the Tuscan style - which is just a matter of opinion.

I can see how people don't like the over use of that style, but it can look better than most buildings when done right. At its worst, it can be terrible, but these 2 above examples are not that.

Here are a couple faux Italian buildings that are awful and give the style a bad name:

(https://urbanize.la/sites/default/files/styles/1140w/public/field/image/davinci.jpg?itok=05G5OOmh)

(https://images1.laweekly.com/imager/u/blog/7149270/orsini.png]https://images1.laweekly.com/imager/u/blog/7149270/orsini.png)

(https://images1.apartments.com/i2/-hdkz5NqGdeo8P5Zslt-OdVUF_Jh5Fg0FocJOe4dyZg/118/the-medici-los-angeles-ca-building-photo.jpg)

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/ladowntownnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/c3/8c3d6354-38bd-11e1-8198-001871e3ce6c/4f07829f14714.image.jpg)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on February 09, 2018, 11:23:41 am
Great use of space for the old Goldie's location. As for the style of both the new building and the tower on the south end of Utica Sq., I think it's a plus. There are now a collection of buildings in that immediate area that share the look, like the SW corner of 21st & Utica. The biggest concern is that something can look out of place, but that is mitigated when the neighboring buildings match. Also, it's not out of place considering Tulsa's history. There are a number of oil mansions that share the style. Look at Philbrook!


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: patric on February 09, 2018, 12:02:36 pm
Great use of space for the old Goldie's location. As for the style of both the new building and the tower on the south end of Utica Sq., I think it's a plus. There are now a collection of buildings in that immediate area that share the look, like the SW corner of 21st & Utica. The biggest concern is that something can look out of place, but that is mitigated when the neighboring buildings match. Also, it's not out of place considering Tulsa's history. There are a number of oil mansions that share the style. Look at Philbrook!

How neat if there were a new Goldies on the lower floor... or some other eatery to make up for the loss.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 08:50:11 am
This site has been fenced off for awhile, hopefully this is not another 14th & Utica (another Bumgarner site). 


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 09:01:13 am
This site has been fenced off for awhile, hopefully this is not another 14th & Utica (another Bumgarner site). 


Goldie's looked better than that.  Saw it a couple weeks ago - not an improvement.



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 10:54:45 am

Goldie's looked better than that.  Saw it a couple weeks ago - not an improvement.

I'll give Bumgarner credit, Utica Place and Utica Plaza are high quality projects.  I'm just surprised the 14th & Utica site has languished for as long as it has and want to see some movement there.  Same for this site across from Utica Square, though it has only been a few months.  Both are very high profile locations that will benefit greatly from urban development.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 11:07:24 am
I'll give Bumgarner credit, Utica Place and Utica Plaza are high quality projects.  I'm just surprised the 14th & Utica site has languished for as long as it has and want to see some movement there.  Same for this site across from Utica Square, though it has only been a few months.  Both are very high profile locations that will benefit greatly from urban development.


Utica Place kind of confuses me - first glance, I think Italianate, then looking a while, it seems more Spanish (Mediterranean.?)   







Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 11:17:47 am
I can see how people don't like the over use of that style, but it can look better than most buildings when done right. At its worst, it can be terrible, but these 2 above examples are not that.

Here are a couple faux Italian buildings that are awful and give the style a bad name:



We seem to be getting a significant selection of Italianate type buildings in midtown.  3 of those were just wrong, but the one with the swimming pool seemed about as authentic as anything else done in this country, given the realities of building for office, retail, hotel, etc, in the area...well, except for the pool..!   I got a feeling that a lot of what we look at and see as "Tuscan" from the old world is either incomplete - as they ran out of money to finish the building, or worn such that the outer stucco layer has come off, leaving the stones/bricks exposed the building is made from.

This design looks like it would fit in well enough and not be a detriment to the area, though...  Just my thoughts...



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 18, 2018, 11:33:01 am

We seem to be getting a significant selection of Italianate type buildings in midtown.  3 of those were just wrong, but the one with the swimming pool seemed about as authentic as anything else done in this country, given the realities of building for office, retail, hotel, etc, in the area...well, except for the pool..!   I got a feeling that a lot of what we look at and see as "Tuscan" from the old world is either incomplete - as they ran out of money to finish the building, or worn such that the outer stucco layer has come off, leaving the stones/bricks exposed the building is made from.

This design looks like it would fit in well enough and not be a detriment to the area, though...  Just my thoughts...




I love the Mediterranean look when done well but you're right that one with the pool is pretty typical of when that look is attempted in the US. It is better than those others and better than a generic apartment complex, but certainly not a remarkable piece of architecture and I can see why many would dislike it.

This new building seems pretty well designed and will fit in with other new buildings. Not stunningly beautiful or remarkable, but very nice.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 18, 2018, 01:47:48 pm

I love the Mediterranean look when done well but you're right that one with the pool is pretty typical of when that look is attempted in the US. It is better than those others and better than a generic apartment complex, but certainly not a remarkable piece of architecture and I can see why many would dislike it.

This new building seems pretty well designed and will fit in with other new buildings. Not stunningly beautiful or remarkable, but very nice.

For better or worse it has become sort of a trademark of midtown architecture, which I assume ties back to Philbrook.  I honestly like the style and hope more of the infill around Utica Square looks similar.  Similar to the "white district" that formed around 35th & Peoria it can create a defining look for a particular area.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Townsend on March 15, 2019, 10:12:38 am
The BoA drive through next door is closing.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on March 15, 2019, 12:50:39 pm
The BoA drive through next door is closing.

Is that part of this development?


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2019, 10:11:22 am
Is that part of this development?

I don't know.  I was just notified of the closing. 


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Conan71 on March 18, 2019, 01:12:34 pm
The BoA drive through next door is closing.

I hope this doesn't lead to a great bank drive through crisis in Tulsa, they are already pretty hard to find.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 22, 2019, 09:26:07 pm
This looks like it is topped out or close to it.  Nice infill and density in the Utica Square area.  Maybe they can replace the Wendy’s next.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: ELG4America on June 24, 2019, 09:08:54 am
This looks like it is topped out or close to it.  Nice infill and density in the Utica Square area.  Maybe they can replace the Wendy’s next.

I can't imagine Wendy's letting that location go. That place prints money at lunch time.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 24, 2019, 10:50:10 am
I can't imagine Wendy's letting that location go. That place prints money at lunch time.

You're probably right, unless they could be on the ground floor of a larger project that would likely involve more medical office space next to St John. 

Maybe once Bumgarner is finished with this project they'll do something at 14th & Utica.  Such a prime location just sitting there for over a decade, it better be on par with Utica Place/Plaza when they finally build it out.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 24, 2019, 12:19:35 pm
I can't imagine Wendy's letting that location go. That place prints money at lunch time.

A Wendy's executive takes a surprise visit to get dinner. He goes in and notices the line moves expeditiously. He orders and notices the employee is polite and takes his order with no issues as he orders a burger meal and frosty. They then make the meal quickly and even tell him "Thank you! Enjoy your meal!". Afterwords, he promptly fires everyone in the restaurant. "Excellent speedy service? An operational Frosty machine?? Treating customers with respect!?! That is NOT what customers expect of Wendys!"


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: ELG4America on June 24, 2019, 04:24:09 pm
A Wendy's executive takes a surprise visit to get dinner. He goes in and notices the line moves expeditiously. He orders and notices the employee is polite and takes his order with no issues as he orders a burger meal and frosty. They then make the meal quickly and even tell him "Thank you! Enjoy your meal!". Afterwords, he promptly fires everyone in the restaurant. "Excellent speedy service? An operational Frosty machine?? Treating customers with respect!?! That is NOT what customers expect of Wendys!"

^This!!! Hahahaha


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Conan71 on June 24, 2019, 11:06:20 pm
This looks like it is topped out or close to it.  Nice infill and density in the Utica Square area.  Maybe they can replace the Wendy’s next.

Anyone have pics to share?


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 07, 2019, 12:57:31 pm
A Wendy's executive takes a surprise visit to get dinner. He goes in and notices the line moves expeditiously. He orders and notices the employee is polite and takes his order with no issues as he orders a burger meal and frosty. They then make the meal quickly and even tell him "Thank you! Enjoy your meal!". Afterwords, he promptly fires everyone in the restaurant. "Excellent speedy service? An operational Frosty machine?? Treating customers with respect!?! That is NOT what customers expect of Wendys!"


True.



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on August 07, 2019, 02:06:51 pm

True.



And before I get sued by Wendy's, the last time I went there, the line moved relatively quick (There was no one in front or behind me), they were courteous and they only missed 1 thing from my order (which I only noticed when I was home so oh well). Truly a 5-star Wendy's experience!


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 30, 2019, 06:44:58 pm
And before I get sued by Wendy's, the last time I went there, the line moved relatively quick (There was no one in front or behind me), they were courteous and they only missed 1 thing from my order (which I only noticed when I was home so oh well). Truly a 5-star Wendy's experience!


I don't really have many complaints about Wendy's.  We go there once in a while.  I really like their chili...tastes somewhat similar to what I make at home - way better than Coney Ilander!.  And we have the 'free Frosty' tag for the year 2019, so that is good.   Don't eat their burgers much, though.



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Urban Enthusiast on December 17, 2019, 07:52:51 pm
Had a chance to take some pictures of the progress of this development this moring.  Looks like they are getting close to being finished.

(https://n1p8aw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m5AM5djG-UoZ072fI0fug1LtmPjEb35jc7XFq-QvE4CFVwMD57U5NB_x46HH48tB3VMOr27dJQTEzLTLS1mbL2IB8Mz4krKohWBJ3LepccoF6Zn4lFfqVtGSW9vY2BHcfTIsOE15d00OtS9edopyIPVBr32b-PHGIXG-XQF1Ipay1vV3gKYFOgh5gU7QeLvkEcgIvIWvPA7c68eVHqyBunw?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)

(https://nvp8aw.dm.files.1drv.com/y4m6vTJ7-B_qPGVhBktMvDSBUPt-ZAuJUku7OThmCs953aKLJezmWxev7QXwA6Hk07PkX-2pgSrl3lzHaQnH3k-gzntpBG5p35meMl-MpRt0bLKCYpDizdwmK_Wa7EJJ27E4Ls-8wCFjpceGzujAosNcok-tl_tVTG7E8hUmcbR27COSw_oaG4ufnB9H7fDpcIwO6akGbThtSnH_x5R03Nqzw?width=1024&height=583&cropmode=none)

(https://kd7heg.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mgOlXDHvweN9k5JJv1WyU3fNIzsoBTU5dEB3YWAXL-FmAQJrwEUiFYRowDN3QADgIL7boO5BstG5lWQYHwWTSX0flHy4gQbvFwW1XGrKYJ4a70hoO0uz_jea0EK71uj4mC0PkzJUmwtmMTKhrfdMwwsKZbbRVrxW2X-u5HjcFNtWUqt6W5L31UpSmZrwpwGOpJ4Y8ZOwa-yxAmIuNLhmAdQ?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none)


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: D-TownTulsan on December 18, 2019, 06:56:54 am
^^ So refreshing to see something like that built up to the sidewalk. Tulsa needs more of that. the first picture scared me as the Utica Square Parking lot hides the street! For a second there I thought they pulled a fast one on and dropped parking between the building and street!


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on December 18, 2019, 10:03:43 am
I know some don't like his style but I appreciate Bumgarner's Neo-Tuscan projects scattered around Utica Square.  I wouldn't mind a few others along 21st through there. 

Hopefully we see more redevelopment within Utica Square itself, mainly on the Miss Jackson's/Petty's site.  But also at the corners like at Utica where the bank could be redeveloped into something taller, with retail on the ground level and either offices or condos above.  Same for the corner at Yorktown where the Chico's building could be similarly redeveloped.  Lots of potential to make Utica Square a more dense retail/mixed-use area more similar to the Plaza in KC or Cherry Creek North in Denver.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 18, 2019, 12:09:50 pm
I know some don't like his style but I appreciate Bumgarner's Neo-Tuscan projects scattered around Utica Square.  I wouldn't mind a few others along 21st through there. 

Hopefully we see more redevelopment within Utica Square itself, mainly on the Miss Jackson's/Petty's site.  But also at the corners like at Utica where the bank could be redeveloped into something taller, with retail on the ground level and either offices or condos above.  Same for the corner at Yorktown where the Chico's building could be similarly redeveloped.  Lots of potential to make Utica Square a more dense retail/mixed-use area more similar to the Plaza in KC or Cherry Creek North in Denver.

I agree.

Maybe not the best architectural style, but matches the area as they've done previously and it adds needed density.  This building will house jobs and functions that otherwise might be spread out in single-story buildings like we have along 21st.

Developments like these are key to concentrating jobs and parking and showing that it's economically feasible. Would be great to replace more of the old single story buildings along major streets like this. Would also be great if this spurns development in Utica Square like you said. Attractive, mixed use is really the way going forward. Landlords should be able to offer space as needed and as the market dictates. Single-story build-to-suit is not a great plan long-term, even if mega-corporations pay top dollar lease contracts at the moment.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: Urban Enthusiast on December 18, 2019, 02:11:24 pm
I would like to see within Utica Square itself a hotel and some residential.  That would add vitality and sustainability.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: DTowner on December 18, 2019, 02:43:57 pm
I find Utica Square far less interesting and enjoyable now than it was 10 (or even 5) years ago.  I still go there, especially to eat at many of the restaurants and it is crowded on a typical Saturday, but it just doesn’t have the same feel or interest anymore.  That giant fenced off lawn where Miss Jackson’s and Petty’s were is much of the problem for me, but it also seems something else has changed.  It feels like a place just trying to hang on and ride the coat tails of its past without expending any effort or capital to adapt to the future.  If I didn’t live close by, I’m not sure I would make much effort to go there anymore.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: buffalodan on December 18, 2019, 03:08:50 pm
I find Utica Square far less interesting and enjoyable now than it was 10 (or even 5) years ago. 

My wife and I walk there fairly often. I was hoping that after 21st was done, it would be a more pleasant walk. It is not. I think that is what I don't enjoy about it. It isn't a nice place to walk through. I wouldn't mind them installing a parking garage and start trying to orient some of the business to more of a pedestrian experience.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on December 24, 2019, 03:00:36 pm
My wife and I walk there fairly often. I was hoping that after 21st was done, it would be a more pleasant walk. It is not. I think that is what I don't enjoy about it. It isn't a nice place to walk through. I wouldn't mind them installing a parking garage and start trying to orient some of the business to more of a pedestrian experience.

Yes!  It has a lot of good bones for a shopping center, especially the interior section around Queenies/Wild Fork/etc.  It just needs to redevelop the edges and create a more mixed-use setting.  I remember what Cherry Creek North in Denver looked like 15 years ago and it isn't that different than Utica Square, but now it's almost like a second, more retail-oriented downtown.  They adapted to a changing retail environment and Utica Square has not.  Luckily in that location surrounded by the highest income neighborhoods in the city it is in a good position to change if its leadership allows it.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: DowntownDan on December 26, 2019, 11:20:37 am
I personally really like the setting of Utica Square, with blocks of buildings breaking up the parking areas, and several trees in the parking areas. Completely different than the asphalt oceans in South Tulsa (Tulsa Hills, etc.). But it definitely needs an upgrade. Brightly marked crosswalks showing where to walk across the parking areas would be a start. And yeah, the old Miss Jacksons/Petty's spot needs something. The fence just so unsightly. Mixed use is the way of the future, and it could be incorporated well, as long as they try to stay true to the style and not plop down some boring glass megastructure in the middle of the square.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 27, 2020, 01:05:22 pm
I find Utica Square far less interesting and enjoyable now than it was 10 (or even 5) years ago.  I still go there, especially to eat at many of the restaurants and it is crowded on a typical Saturday, but it just doesn’t have the same feel or interest anymore.  That giant fenced off lawn where Miss Jackson’s and Petty’s were is much of the problem for me, but it also seems something else has changed.  It feels like a place just trying to hang on and ride the coat tails of its past without expending any effort or capital to adapt to the future.  If I didn’t live close by, I’m not sure I would make much effort to go there anymore.


We drive around through the place regularly, and you are spot on about the 'feel' changing!   Feels like we are just going there out of habit...

Losing Russell Stover didn't help...even though that wasn't Utica Square's fault. 



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: BKDotCom on January 27, 2020, 04:18:38 pm

Losing Russell Stover didn't help...


WAT?
Glacier is superior and local


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 27, 2020, 04:20:59 pm
WAT?
Glacier is superior and local


They are pretty good, I gotta admit.  And the chocolate shop on main in Broken Arrow is even better!  We do like them both a lot!

I just gotta stay at the lower priced tier for most of the time, though.  Would love to go to Glacier as much as we did RS, but just can't afford it, so we go once in a while!



Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 28, 2020, 02:20:47 pm
WAT?
Glacier is superior and local

I agree. The only thing RS has is lower price points on some items. But having Glacier in there is better for the city. Local brands like that are a great way to help build a local vibe. I can't speak on profitability or what the rent is, but losing RS and gaining Glacier looks like one of the better things Utica Square has done the last few years.

However, there has to be a mix of local and things that bring in the kind of people that watch commericials and want "name brand" everything. I'd much rather have DoubleShot or Fair Fellow than Starbucks, but our world is so saturated by mega corporations, a shopping center has to put in the later to bring in customers. Starbucks is probably the most visited place there. They sell poor quality burnt coffee and 1000+ calorie "beverages" and yet people still buy it. Maybe losing RS was bad for bringing in those types.

Utica Square definitely goes for big prestigious/high-demand brands, especially those desirable to upper middle class and above. I'd think RS has lost a lot of the luster over the years and that Glacier supplants it locally at least.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 28, 2020, 02:26:09 pm
Yes!  It has a lot of good bones for a shopping center, especially the interior section around Queenies/Wild Fork/etc.  It just needs to redevelop the edges and create a more mixed-use setting.  I remember what Cherry Creek North in Denver looked like 15 years ago and it isn't that different than Utica Square, but now it's almost like a second, more retail-oriented downtown.  They adapted to a changing retail environment and Utica Square has not.  Luckily in that location surrounded by the highest income neighborhoods in the city it is in a good position to change if its leadership allows it.

Following in the path of those sort of areas would be great for Utica Square, but it would be resisted pretty strongly from surrounding neighborhoods. I wonder if they could even get in one mixed use building like Cherry Creek North. It would be great for them to try though. They'd have to make it upscale like the pricey condo buildings surrounding it. It would take several of those to turn the area from outdoor shopping mall into a mini downtown.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: buffalodan on January 29, 2020, 11:06:21 am
I wouldn't mind if they just redid the parking around there. They spend a ton of land on drive aisles, which are horribly placed. It isn't good use of land for pedestrians, and it still isn't great for cars. I think they could redo some of the lanes and either extend the buildings or add in more pedestrian/cafe space.

I'm really upset that they redid the light onto 21st and didn't have any talks about to fix that area.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: patric on January 29, 2020, 11:34:30 am
That giant fenced off lawn where Miss Jackson’s and Petty’s were is much of the problem for me, but it also seems something else has changed.  It feels like a place just trying to hang on and ride the coat tails of its past without expending any effort or capital to adapt to the future.  If I didn’t live close by, I’m not sure I would make much effort to go there anymore.

An open greenspace would have been a logical use, but the presence of a big solid fence just screams "Hazmat," or at the least, not particularly inviting to an investor or developer.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on January 30, 2020, 08:47:15 am
Following in the path of those sort of areas would be great for Utica Square, but it would be resisted pretty strongly from surrounding neighborhoods. I wonder if they could even get in one mixed use building like Cherry Creek North. It would be great for them to try though. They'd have to make it upscale like the pricey condo buildings surrounding it. It would take several of those to turn the area from outdoor shopping mall into a mini downtown.

I think that’s the direction they will eventually go just need to have the vision and start executing it.  The demographics and location within midtown will support it.


Title: Re: Office-retail development across from Utica Square at old Goldie's location
Post by: SXSW on June 08, 2020, 04:48:30 pm
This buildings looks like it pretty much finished.  What are they building across the street at 21st & Xanthus?  ARK is currently tearing down the old 2 story medical office building.