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Non-Tulsa Discussions => Chat and Advice => Topic started by: patric on August 06, 2017, 10:30:10 am



Title: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 06, 2017, 10:30:10 am
A tornado is believed to have spun up last night over the Promenade Mall, and moved so fast thru Midtown and East Tulsa that it was out of the city before the sirens could be sounded.

https://mediaweb.fox23.com/photo/2017/08/06/PATH_1502015077885_8783770_ver1.0_640_360.png

A spokesperson from the city of Tulsa explained why the city did not activate sirens Sunday morning:

    "The National Weather Service issued a tornado warning at 1:25 a.m. This particular storm spun up at such a quick rate between scans of the radar and by the time the NWS issued the warning the storm was crossing into Broken Arrow jurisdiction at a high rate of speed. At this point, Tulsa did not activate the sirens because the NWS said the storm cell had moved into Broken Arrow. The TAEMA director called BA emergency management director and insured they had they same information so they could activate the BA sirens."

Tornado sirens sounded in Broken Arrow when a Tornado Warning was issued at 1:25 a.m.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 06, 2017, 10:45:30 am
A tornado is believed to have spun up last night over the Promenade Mall, and moved so fast thru Midtown and East Tulsa that it was out of the city before the sirens could be sounded.

https://mediaweb.fox23.com/photo/2017/08/06/PATH_1502015077885_8783770_ver1.0_640_360.png

A spokesperson from the city of Tulsa explained why the city did not activate sirens Sunday morning:

    "The National Weather Service issued a tornado warning at 1:25 a.m. This particular storm spun up at such a quick rate between scans of the radar and by the time the NWS issued the warning the storm was crossing into Broken Arrow jurisdiction at a high rate of speed. At this point, Tulsa did not activate the sirens because the NWS said the storm cell had moved into Broken Arrow. The TAEMA director called BA emergency management director and insured they had they same information so they could activate the BA sirens."

Tornado sirens sounded in Broken Arrow when a Tornado Warning was issued at 1:25 a.m.


And then I see people on FB and other social media blaming the TV meteos for 'not getting it right'.  Meteos tell people that even if a storm isn't expected to create a tornado, they can sure as hell spin up from one regardless.  People need to stay weather aware and stop being lazy.  And get a damned weather radio.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 06, 2017, 11:22:44 am
DUI checkpoint planned for Tulsa on Saturday

Tulsa police, Tulsa County Sheriff's deputies and Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers will establish the checkpoint Saturday, Aug. 5 in the area of 41st Street and Sheridan Road.

No time frame has been specified for the checkpoint; typically they are in place from 10 p.m. to 3 a.m.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/dui-checkpoint-planned-for-tulsa-on-saturday/article_4c7d949e-0782-568b-8dcc-b9b1893205a6.html



God said No.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 06, 2017, 11:24:15 am
And then I see people on FB and other social media blaming the TV meteos for 'not getting it right'.  Meteos tell people that even if a storm isn't expected to create a tornado, they can sure as hell spin up from one regardless.  People need to stay weather aware and stop being lazy.  And get a damned weather radio.

Weather radios are replaced by smart phone apps, but they become useless when the cellular network is congested or damaged.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: joiei on August 06, 2017, 11:38:19 am
Some of the photos by Tom Gilbert.   http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/weather/photo-gallery-damage-from-sunday-s-storm/collection_a7fa0498-565f-5b08-914c-abe4215b828a.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/weather/photo-gallery-damage-from-sunday-s-storm/collection_a7fa0498-565f-5b08-914c-abe4215b828a.html) 


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 06, 2017, 04:32:09 pm
The neighborhood lost power before the tornado touched down, leaving a lot of people unaware of the storm warnings, said resident Rachel Anderson.
"A lot of people, like me, went back to sleep and thought everything was OK," she said. "But they're waking up this morning to realize that everything is not OK."

A neighbor's tree collapsed on top of Sam Yell's cars, an SUV and Honda Civic parked his driveway near Whiteside Park.
A storm alert popped up on his phone, but only after the damage had already been done, he said.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/ef-tornado-injures-at-least-causes-extensive-damage-in-parts/article_f181726e-7aac-11e7-9d5f-3b2744d1f2ca.html


My beef with local media storm apps is they are bandwidth hogs bloated with self-promotion that clog networks and arent likely to be of real use in a real disaster.






Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 06, 2017, 05:56:36 pm
The neighborhood lost power before the tornado touched down, leaving a lot of people unaware of the storm warnings, said resident Rachel Anderson.
"A lot of people, like me, went back to sleep and thought everything was OK," she said. "But they're waking up this morning to realize that everything is not OK."

A neighbor's tree collapsed on top of Sam Yell's cars, an SUV and Honda Civic parked his driveway near Whiteside Park.
A storm alert popped up on his phone, but only after the damage had already been done, he said.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/ef-tornado-injures-at-least-causes-extensive-damage-in-parts/article_f181726e-7aac-11e7-9d5f-3b2744d1f2ca.html


My beef with local media storm apps is they are bandwidth hogs bloated with self-promotion that clog networks and arent likely to be of real use in a real disaster.






Yeah, let's let that not save lives then.   ::)


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Breadburner on August 06, 2017, 07:04:49 pm
The weather men smile the bed on this one....


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 06, 2017, 08:22:25 pm
The weather men smile the bed on this one....

Forecasting weather is not a perfect science.

Once again you provide nothing of substance to the discussion....


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 06, 2017, 08:29:10 pm
Yeah, let's let that not save lives then.   ::)

Trim some of the bandwidth-intensive promotional bloat so they dont bring down servers and cell towers when 10,000+ people log on.


Updated map:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=17XOFju_b0dzJR07qmfTy5yRNhAM&ll=36.09125151175993%2C-95.82598424999998&z=12


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Breadburner on August 06, 2017, 08:35:56 pm
Forecasting weather is not a perfect science.

Once again you provide nothing of substance to the discussion....


Lol...Nice try...They screwed the pooch.....


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 06, 2017, 08:50:11 pm

Lol...Nice try...They screwed the pooch.....

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/8f/8fc3162d32c7e051f086e0b5b18c443365deb6892f3fe5bc6f2677bba3447afd.jpg)


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: sgrizzle on August 06, 2017, 09:05:46 pm
I'm just west of yale. It came out of nowhere and while they say nothing west of yale was hit by the tornado, I'm not sure I believe it. I had stuff against my house, in a corner, under an overhang, where the wind can barely blow thrown out into my yard. Healthy trees twisted and snapped. It was sudden and it sounded like a disaster movie.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Red Arrow on August 06, 2017, 09:08:55 pm
Weather radios are replaced by smart phone apps, but they become useless when the cellular network is congested or damaged.

A weather radio with a battery back-up is a wise choice.

No excuses.



Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 06, 2017, 10:58:12 pm
A weather radio with a battery back-up is a wise choice.

No excuses.



I actually have three (two initially one for me and one for my mother when she was still with us).  I sort of bought another as I bought a Uniden Home Patrol scanner.  It has a weather radio built in.  Works quite well.The dedicated weather radios I do have are:

http://www.reecominc.com/r1650.htm

http://www.sangean.com/products/product.asp?mid=84


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 07, 2017, 09:57:54 am
I'm just west of yale. It came out of nowhere and while they say nothing west of yale was hit by the tornado, I'm not sure I believe it. I had stuff against my house, in a corner, under an overhang, where the wind can barely blow thrown out into my yard. Healthy trees twisted and snapped. It was sudden and it sounded like a disaster movie.

Thats the point; there was no warning... at least none we have become accustomed to.

NWS reported it formed between sweeps on the radar and they realized they had something when the picked up flying debris over Harvard ave.
It sailed out of the city by the time they were ready to start the wheels turning.

Im not thinking in terms of laying blame, but rather someone much smarter than I coming up with a tighter surveillance-to-response procedure for heat islands like Tulsa.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 07, 2017, 10:10:16 am
Thats the point; there was no warning... at least none we have become accustomed to.

NWS reported it formed between sweeps on the radar and they realized they had something when the picked up flying debris over Harvard ave.


Which would never have been possible to see without the advent of DualPol (Dual Polarization) radar that was implemented about five years ago.  Just five years ago this likely would never have been a warned storm in Tulsa County.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Ed W on August 07, 2017, 10:39:01 am
Weather radar isn't what we think of as a live image. Successive antenna sweeps are performed at different angles, cutting a thunderstorm like a layer cake. Then those images have to be combined into a composite. This can take several minutes. In those minutes, a tornado can form and touch down. It happened here and it happened in a similar way in Ft. Smith.

NWS puts on a free weather seminar that covers the limitations of radar. It's intended primarily for amateur radio operators who act as spotters, but if I recall right, it's open to the public.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Townsend on August 07, 2017, 11:05:55 am
It was sudden and it sounded like a disaster movie.

I believe this.  sgrizzle screams like Jamie Lee Curtis


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 07, 2017, 11:15:52 am
Weather radar isn't what we think of as a live image. Successive antenna sweeps are performed at different angles, cutting a thunderstorm like a layer cake. Then those images have to be combined into a composite. This can take several minutes. In those minutes, a tornado can form and touch down. It happened here and it happened in a similar way in Ft. Smith.

NWS puts on a free weather seminar that covers the limitations of radar. It's intended primarily for amateur radio operators who act as spotters, but if I recall right, it's open to the public.

It's the spotter training class and that usually occurs in February as a runup to severe weather season.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 07, 2017, 11:19:36 am
Weather radar isn't what we think of as a live image. Successive antenna sweeps are performed at different angles, cutting a thunderstorm like a layer cake. Then those images have to be combined into a composite. This can take several minutes. In those minutes, a tornado can form and touch down. It happened here and it happened in a similar way in Ft. Smith.

NWS puts on a free weather seminar that covers the limitations of radar. It's intended primarily for amateur radio operators who act as spotters, but if I recall right, it's open to the public.

However, right now it IS better due to two new radar modes that have been implemented in just the last couple of years.  It tries to help address the issue of QLCS tornadoes (Quasi-linear convective system...which is a fancy way of saying a tornado embedded in a squall line as opposed to in a discrete supercellular storm).

AVSET: https://www.roc.noaa.gov/wsr88d/NNOW/AVSET.htm

SAILS: http://www.weather.gov/gsp/sails


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 07, 2017, 11:48:40 am
Newest map shows the tornado formed at 36th & Gary... I cant get it to link from the Tulsa World though.


The first tornado blazed a nearly seven-mile path through midtown Tulsa, starting about 1:20 a.m. Sunday. It developed over a neighborhood east of South Harvard Avenue and south of East 36th Street South, according to the National Weather Service in Tulsa.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/businesses-damaged-after-three-tornadoes-touched-down-in-less-than/article_c8f0fa32-a8f0-5c39-8356-25df38c826c1.html

Had a major power bump at 1:16:12 at my house, just northwest of that.



Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: swake on August 07, 2017, 12:02:35 pm
Newest map shows the tornado formed at 36th & Gary... I cant get it to link from the Tulsa World though.


The first tornado blazed a nearly seven-mile path through midtown Tulsa, starting about 1:20 a.m. Sunday. It developed over a neighborhood east of South Harvard Avenue and south of East 36th Street South, according to the National Weather Service in Tulsa.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/businesses-damaged-after-three-tornadoes-touched-down-in-less-than/article_c8f0fa32-a8f0-5c39-8356-25df38c826c1.html

Had a major power bump at 1:15:42 at my house, just northwest of that.



We had a short outage at that time in Jenks too.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 07, 2017, 12:17:45 pm
Newest map shows the tornado formed at 36th & Gary... I cant get it to link from the Tulsa World though.


The first tornado blazed a nearly seven-mile path through midtown Tulsa, starting about 1:20 a.m. Sunday. It developed over a neighborhood east of South Harvard Avenue and south of East 36th Street South, according to the National Weather Service in Tulsa.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/businesses-damaged-after-three-tornadoes-touched-down-in-less-than/article_c8f0fa32-a8f0-5c39-8356-25df38c826c1.html

Had a major power bump at 1:15:42 at my house, just northwest of that.

Surprisingly for me, in an area that seems to have power outages in severe sunshine with moderate wind, I had but one minor blip...not enough to even reset my clocks but enough for my Tripp Lite UPSs to reset.  Just once though.  I was amazed but not saying anything at the time for fear of jinxing it.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 07, 2017, 12:20:05 pm
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/8f/8fc3162d32c7e051f086e0b5b18c443365deb6892f3fe5bc6f2677bba3447afd.jpg)



The "best" of both worlds...


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 07, 2017, 05:35:08 pm
TULSA, Okla. (AP) ó Inspectors have now condemned 10 businesses that sustained structural damage when tornadoes swept across midtown Tulsa and other parts of northeastern Oklahoma.

Notices were posted by city inspectors Monday prohibiting the structures from being occupied or used after they were heavily damaged by an EF2 twister early Sunday. The businesses were AT&T and Woodcraft stores, AspenDental, Panera, CarTec, Whataburger, TGI Fridays, The Flame Broiler, Vintage Stock and H&R Block.


It will be interesting when they recover surveillance video from any number of cameras in the area.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 07, 2017, 05:37:57 pm
(http://static-31.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/6340391d-f0e0-49f1-ad6d-52bea7cbd0ac-large16x9_tornadopath.PNG)

Here is the interactive map on which this is based:
https://noaa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=c816a5369e204f04ad77ad0b8a11353c

You can zoom in on an area, and click on a spot to show images of damage and details of the survey at that point.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Breadburner on August 07, 2017, 06:40:41 pm
We sure had to listen to all those channel 6 "Warn Weather Radar" commercials for the last 6 months.....They missed the boat on this big time....


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 07, 2017, 10:32:04 pm
I'm just west of yale. It came out of nowhere and while they say nothing west of Yale was hit by the tornado, I'm not sure I believe it.

The amount of residential damage does seem under-emphasized.  

Some of the perimeter control defies reason.  Leaving a doctors appointment driving eastbound on 41st approaching Yale, I passed numerous TPD vehicles blocking side streets to the north.  Cones were set up so you cant turn left (to go north) on Yale so you are funnelled thru the shopping center parking and right into the very neighborhood thats supposed to be blocked off.

I decided against that and back tracked, but clearly it was a cluster.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2017, 09:08:27 am
Weather radios are replaced by smart phone apps, but they become useless when the cellular network is congested or damaged.


That's why you get the weather radio anyway.  No excuse in this state is good enough not to have one!


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2017, 09:09:10 am

Lol...Nice try...They screwed the pooch.....



Nooo...that was you.  And then hallucinating about it later...


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 08, 2017, 10:11:14 am
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/eb/6ebd3176-e02a-50a4-93f7-61112b59f4cd/5988e23a84b2d.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800)

Since its condemned anyway, im hoping they scrape the floodlights that blind you as your driving east on 41st.
They wouldnt pass the new zoning code today... if it were enforced.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2017, 10:41:20 am
Side note - does anyone eat at Whataburger any more...??

And how do they stay open to start with...??


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 08, 2017, 11:51:06 am


Nooo...that was you.  And then hallucinating about it later...


I'm going to venture a guess that BB is not what you would consider a 'critical thinker'.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 08, 2017, 12:05:15 pm
Side note - does anyone eat at Whataburger any more...??

Nobody goes there anymore.  It's too crowded.

And how do they stay open to start with...??

I guess selling hamburgers and breakfast sammiches pays the bills


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2017, 01:31:55 pm
Nobody goes there anymore.  It's too crowded.

I guess selling hamburgers and breakfast sammiches pays the bills




Yeah...I guess so.  I have eaten there before, but when there are good burgers less than 100 miles away...why??

I will admit their breakfast sandwiches are up in the top 5 or so, though.  Like the way they do the eggs on them.

And they have a spicy ketchup for the fries, and that works well.



Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 08, 2017, 02:24:33 pm


Yeah...I guess so.  I have eaten there before, but when there are good burgers less than 100 miles away...why??

I will admit their breakfast sandwiches are up in the top 5 or so, though.  Like the way they do the eggs on them.

And they have a spicy ketchup for the fries, and that works well.



The only thing I go there for anymore?  Patty Melt.  The only other place in town that does one as good or better is McNellie's.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 08, 2017, 02:33:38 pm

Yeah...I guess so.  I have eaten there before, but when there are good burgers less than 100 miles away...why??


I find that when having small children, convenience trumps better.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2017, 04:06:43 pm
I find that when having small children, convenience trumps better.


Thank GOD I am beyond that...well, except for the great grandkids!   And they just keep coming!  They are so easy, it isn't even a challenge - McDonald's playground !!   And I can just fake it with a McDouble and iced tea...till can get some real food.  Or just tea without the McDouble.   Gotta say - McDonald's has some good tea!   And if traveling in the east south - they have a country ham biscuit that is deadly and more addictive than meth!!  Add round egg, add cheese.  Unbelievable decadence for a fast food joint!!







Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: rebound on August 08, 2017, 04:25:38 pm
Yeah...I guess so.  I have eaten there before, but when there are good burgers less than 100 miles away...why??
I will admit their breakfast sandwiches are up in the top 5 or so, though.  Like the way they do the eggs on them.
And they have a spicy ketchup for the fries, and that works well.

Love me some Whataburger!  I've gone of out of my way to make the pilgrimage to the original in Corpus Christi.   It is top of my list for "chain" hamburgers.  Breakfast is great, too.   It's not fair to compare them to any of the gourmet burger places, but for a good, quick, burger it's my go to.



Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: joiei on August 08, 2017, 06:52:58 pm
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/eb/6ebd3176-e02a-50a4-93f7-61112b59f4cd/5988e23a84b2d.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C800)

Since its condemned anyway, im hoping they scrape the floodlights that blind you as your driving east on 41st.
They wouldnt pass the new zoning code today... if it were enforced.
So it will end up looking like the one up at 21st and Yale?


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 08, 2017, 07:14:16 pm
That Whataburger was originally a Burger Chef.

http://www.thebawdycloister.com/burger_chef_locations/oklahoma/ (http://www.thebawdycloister.com/burger_chef_locations/oklahoma/)



Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 08, 2017, 07:58:16 pm
That Whataburger was originally a Burger Chef.
http://www.thebawdycloister.com/burger_chef_locations/oklahoma/ (http://www.thebawdycloister.com/burger_chef_locations/oklahoma/)

The site maybe, but most of those buildings are (were) only a few years old.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 08, 2017, 08:26:24 pm
The site maybe, but most of those buildings are (were) only a few years old.

The building was built in 1972 as Burger Chef, it became Whataburger around 1978 and remodeled in 1992.

http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php (http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php)



Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Breadburner on August 09, 2017, 05:36:28 am
They admitted they dropped the ball on this one....


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 09, 2017, 07:19:04 am
They admitted they dropped the ball on this one....

You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel OK.  I know the guys/gals at the NWS.  Do they hate that this happened?  Sure.  But it wasn't 'dropping the ball'.  FFS.   ::)


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: rebound on August 09, 2017, 02:11:15 pm
The weather is literally a poster child for Chaos Theory and The Butterfly Effect.   Anyone who thinks that near-term, real-time, weather like Tornadoes can be predicted is a fool.  (Tracking, yes.  Predicting, no.)

 


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Conan71 on August 09, 2017, 11:18:11 pm
Love me some Whataburger!  I've gone of out of my way to make the pilgrimage to the original in Corpus Christi.   It is top of my list for "chain" hamburgers.  Breakfast is great, too.   It's not fair to compare them to any of the gourmet burger places, but for a good, quick, burger it's my go to.



But how does it compare to Big Kahuna Burger?

(http://5.darkroom.shortlist.com/980/5e68481e0cba6aa521a0fbcfd8d6087e:652a4a11647ba57d443f8584af9f7216/kahuna2.jpg)


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 10, 2017, 10:47:22 am
I know the guys/gals at the NWS.  Do they hate that this happened?  Sure.  But it wasn't 'dropping the ball'.  FFS.   ::)

I propose we figure out a way to move the ball faster.

As far as warnings go, the NWS website forecast thunderstorms (with the possibility of some becoming severe) at least a day and a half in advance.
While the out-of-season occurrence of an EF2 tornado dropping down almost literally in the middle of the city sort of "blew away" everyone, it wasnt totally without some expectation.  Even without the twister, that was a hell of a storm.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Conan71 on August 10, 2017, 12:07:16 pm
I propose we figure out a way to move the ball faster.

As far as warnings go, the NWS website forecast thunderstorms (with the possibility of some becoming severe) at least a day and a half in advance.
While the out-of-season occurrence of an EF2 tornado dropping down almost literally in the middle of the city sort of "blew away" everyone, it wasnt totally without some expectation.  Even without the twister, that was a hell of a storm.

But if they would have suggested possible tornadic storms, the same people blowing up Facebook about how the NWS or TV stations blew it would have been blowing up FB if there had been no tornados calling meteorologists a bunch of over-reactors.  Some people will ignore all warnings because of the times meteorologists do miss it.  Itís a no win with people who have no appreciation for how forecasting works nor a desire to learn how it does.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 10, 2017, 12:30:09 pm
But if they would have suggested possible tornadic storms, the same people blowing up Facebook about how the NWS or TV stations blew it would have been blowing up FB if there had been no tornados calling meteorologists a bunch of over-reactors.  Some people will ignore all warnings because of the times meteorologists do miss it.  Itís a no win with people who have no appreciation for how forecasting works nor a desire to learn how it does.

And this is exactly what some of the NWS people say.  You can't have it both ways.  This was a simply an outlier of a storm that happens.  Warning of tornadoes is MUCH better than it was even 20 years ago.  Thanks in no small part to the technology that the NWS gets.  And the men and women that work for a pittance (remember, this IS after all a federal job) compared to what many of them could be getting at a TV station (although many of them will admit they have faces better suited for radio) or doing private meteo work.

Let's cut them a little slack.  How many of our jobs (aside from LEOs and first responders) do lives hang in the balance?   I know for a fact they take it seriously and are just as hurt when someone is injured or loses their lives.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: swake on August 10, 2017, 04:08:04 pm
The Tulsa World is reporting that Remington Tower may have to come down. It at least will have to be stripped to the steel beams.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: guido911 on August 11, 2017, 12:54:25 am
I heard Night Trips survived.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Conan71 on August 11, 2017, 09:53:32 am
I heard Night Trips survived.

Ahh, your table is still safe!


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 11, 2017, 11:56:29 am
Ahh, your table is still safe!

I drove the general area today at lunch (not what I wanted to do but in getting to my destination took the 41st St Exit on I-44).

What a mess.  The Regency building from reports I've heard may have to come down with some of the damage it has.  Whataburger was demolished; the complex with Aspen Dental didn't fare very well either.  I didn't get to see much of the TGIF as my travels took me from I-44 to Sheridan, so I didn't get to drive through that.

Looks like it will be a while before that is all back to normal.  There were still utility trucks out...and the damage to businesses and buildings along Sheridan between 42nd and 45th on the east side of Sheridan was pretty extensive also.  Lot of utility trucks in the area.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 11, 2017, 12:20:12 pm
Regency or Remington? It really surprises me that the Remington suffered sufficient damage that it would have to be taken down. I saw were some of the facade had come off, but it damaged the core support structure of a 20 story building that much?


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 11, 2017, 12:27:48 pm
Regency or Remington? It really surprises me that the Remington suffered sufficient damage that it would have to be taken down. I saw were some of the facade had come off, but it damaged the core support structure of a 20 story building that much?

Sorry...Remington.  The big tower on the east side of 44 just south of Academy.  Mind you, it's not official, but I have heard that.  I also heard for sure that the building owner told tenants above floor five to expect total losses.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 11, 2017, 12:38:00 pm
Just read the article in the Tulsa Fish Wrapper. It will be interesting to see what the real engineers find when they inspect the building. I can see with the way that building was built (no real interior offices so to speak) that a lot of the businesses in the upper floors would be a total loss because of wind and rain from the shattered windows. I guess the thing that gets me is that I know building engineering has changed since this build was built in the late 70's especially with better understanding storm forces, and I know the building is designed to have some flex to it, but if it was only 130 MPH winds (tornadic or straight) it almost sounds like the building was designed just to meet code. Just my own thoughts, not a tin foil hat rant.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Hoss on August 11, 2017, 12:50:40 pm
Just read the article in the Tulsa Fish Wrapper. It will be interesting to see what the real engineers find when they inspect the building. I can see with the way that building was built (no real interior offices so to speak) that a lot of the businesses in the upper floors would be a total loss because of wind and rain from the shattered windows. I guess the thing that gets me is that I know building engineering has changed since this build was built in the late 70's especially with better understanding storm forces, and I know the building is designed to have some flex to it, but if it was only 130 MPH winds (tornadic or straight) it almost sounds like the building was designed just to meet code. Just my own thoughts, not a tin foil hat rant.

No tinfoil rant suspected; my brother who is an electrical engineer by trade, rants to this day about cost cutting measures construction companies use to just meet code.  Happens all the time.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 11, 2017, 01:01:58 pm
Slightly off topic, the one building downtown that I used to hate delivering to, can't remember what it was but it's ONE Gas now, the upper floors have accordion like expansion panels in the hallways, and on windy days you could hear the panels creek as the building moved.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 11, 2017, 01:04:10 pm
Just read the article in the Tulsa Fish Wrapper. It will be interesting to see what the real engineers find when they inspect the building. I can see with the way that building was built (no real interior offices so to speak) that a lot of the businesses in the upper floors would be a total loss because of wind and rain from the shattered windows. I guess the thing that gets me is that I know building engineering has changed since this build was built in the late 70's especially with better understanding storm forces, and I know the building is designed to have some flex to it, but if it was only 130 MPH winds (tornadic or straight) it almost sounds like the building was designed just to meet code. Just my own thoughts, not a tin foil hat rant.

My take on the Tulsa Whirled and other media reports is that the building was designed to twist up to a certain point.  If that point was exceeded...
The theory was the elevator shaft was exposed to excess dynamic pressure and the skin ripped open as a result.

In home and small business constriction its usually a garage door that is the Achilles Heel, or debris breaching a large window that allows pressure to suddenly build up and the structure pops like a balloon.  


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: swake on August 11, 2017, 03:50:21 pm
Slightly off topic, the one building downtown that I used to hate delivering to, can't remember what it was but it's ONE Gas now, the upper floors have accordion like expansion panels in the hallways, and on windy days you could hear the panels creek as the building moved.

First Place Tower, I used to work in that building. It's really two buildings, a 41 story tower and a 19 story original building. There's a rubber gasket between the two buildings so they can sway separately in the wind. It was kind of wild to stand with one foot in each building during storms when I worked on the 14th floor.


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: patric on August 12, 2017, 09:29:08 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/weather/the-science-wasn-t-there-an-in-depth-look-into/article_84e84e1a-cda0-5137-a0dd-8ae2b3cfe6e9.html


Title: Re: Tornado slip thru the cracks?
Post by: Markk on August 13, 2017, 02:35:43 pm
It's been a week; there is no secret why the sirens weren't sounded in Tulsa---they wouldn't have made any difference, because by the time they would have sounded, the tornado was no longer in Tulsa.

Can we start talking now about whether there is better radar technology out there that the NWS should be using?  'cause beating this dead horse has become very tiresome.