The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Explain to me why they think they would need this?  At the writing below, there were three states that refused to do this, but I've seen an update and it's up to about 10 (Oklahoma, surprisingly, is included in that list of ten).

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/340192-state-officials-refuse-to-turn-over-voter-roll-data-to-trump

Wait, this guy has been sitting in the White House for over five months now and he wants an investigation into voter fraud because he didn’t win the popular vote?

The reason he didn’t win the popular vote is because he’s a dick.

Pure and simple.

But he and many of his supporters seem to think that there were 3 million illegal votes cast.  When the evidence doesn't show it.

This is hilarious. It's completely reasonable that we spend zillions of dollars and spill gallons of ink looking into how Russia stole the election for Trump. An argument Obama laughed at ladt October.  But by God we better not see who actually voted in our election. That's crazy talk.

Next, he’s going to be demanding an inquiry into missing strawberries from the White House kitchen.

(http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-sometimes-you-don-t-know-if-you-re-caesar-about-to-cross-the-rubicon-or-captain-queeg-cutting-your-anthony-kennedy-243165.jpg)

No, what's hilarious is you believe Trump.

Now THAT is really sad.

Well you tell us. What has Trump said about this request for voting records. I mean, I know the whole "Trump-conspired-with-Russia to throw the election his way" which Trump denied turned out to be true.

This is all so confusing. Trump won because of fraud and interference, but only the fraud and interference that idiots like you want to believe. Actually looking at who voted in our election, and seeing where that might lead--we can't have that. In that respect Trump is right. What are they afraid of?

Captain Queeg - perfect!

I for one have no problem with them looking to see if there was voter fraud and trying to determine how much there may have been and offering up potential solutions.  Actually I would push for it. BUT, what they are doing and asking for with this request seems inappropriate.  They can do what they are tasked to do without getting all the particular data points they are requesting (some which seem rather suspect and none of their business concerning what they are tasked with doing) and can definitely do a better job of working WITH the states to answer the question.

In some states, the commission is asking for information that states are legally bound from revealing. Yet Trump blasts all of them for being uncooperative. That's dumb. Nothing will get state officials to dig in their heels more than over-reaching demands from Washington.

Regardless, no investigation of voter fraud has ever turned up evidence of such wide spread fraud. Numbers are handfuls rather than the millions Trump alleges. So his comission will either fudge the numbers to fit his narrative, or as is more widely believed, provide a pretext for denying more Americans their voting rights.

Finally, as for Russian interference in our elections, nothing has been proven yet. That is most definitely not the same as denying it happened.

Exactly.  Why is address needed?  Smells like voter intimidation to me.  Oklahoma technically has complied, but only by releasing what is only publicly available (no SSN, name, county of registration I think and party affiliation).  They don't need my address.  Nor my social security number.  They're asking for too much under the guise of 'voter fraud investigating'.

I find it funny that the party of small government is pushing for government intervention on something that is typically a state function (voting).  Can't have your cake and eat it too.

And even funnier is this.   LOL.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/30/kris-kobach-says-hes-cant-comply-with-kris-kobachs-voter-data-request/

And another thing...the whole voter fraud thing...is a solution looking for a problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/us/voter-fraud.html

Get whatever information can be accessed and start there. Let's see where this goes. Whatever is revealed will answer whether or not there is fraud.

And as for voter suppression, I got no problem with suppressing the illegal or dead vote.

They'll find a few scattered cases of voter fraud.  That'll be the excuse they need to enact voter suppression type measures.

the issue is that Dump is saying there were 3 million cases of voter fraud.  His fragile ego cannot handle the fact that, while he did win the election based on the electoral college, he lost the popular vote.  Bigly.

Like what? Poll taxes? Property ownership requirement? Education? Or, gasp, voter ID?

 If you are worried about anything it should be possible loss of personal info.

Such a strange country we live in now:

- Trump claims widespread election fraud so we can't trust the results of the upcoming election
- Trump narrowly wins, claims historic mandate and totally no voter fraud
- Press focuses on Trump's loss by millions in the popular vote
- Trump unilaterally tweets that millions of fraudulent votes were cast, all for Hillary

That's the basis for this inquiry.  Not a rational belief or evidence that there actually is widespread voter fraud.  The basis for spending millions of dollars on something is the President's ego. 

Fine, that's where we start. But what do we know about actual voter fraud?

Many who have studied the issue have concluded that there is zero evidence that widespread voter fraud had an impact on the election (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/315914-author-of-study-spicer-cited-we-found-no-evidence-of-voter). We know  of four actual cases of voter fraud in the 2016 election (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/?utm_term=.b87beaa98984).  Out of 135,000,000 votes, 4.  There are another half dozen suspected cases. Here are the 4 reported cases:
1. Because Trump said the polls were all rigged, a lady in Des Moines tried to level the playing field by voting twice for Trump (and was caught),
2. A man in Texas voted twice, was caught, and claim he was an employee of the Trump Campaign testing the integrity of the voting system,
3. A Republican election judge in Illinois voted on behalf of her dead husband by absentee ballot, and
4. A mail clerk in Florida was filling in blanks on absentee ballots.

That's not to say that ineligible voting isn't a potential problem we need to keep an eye on. But even when newspapers set out to report on voter fraud (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/) they find a handful of actual incidents and several more instances of people who are registered improperly (such as automatically being registered to vote when getting a license, even if ineligible.  But that isn't evidence that they actually voted, let alone fraudulently).  Surely we can improve the system, but the constant drum beat that there is widespread voter fraud is propagating a myth that undermines our democracy (and seems to actually encourage some people to engage in voter fraud).

And that's ignoring the fact that the inquiry is a massive federal attempt to mine personal data using states as proxies.  Your voter information is as precious as what firearms you own, can you imagine the conservative outrage if the Feds asked states to collect firearms data on every American and turn it over to Uncle Sam?

Instead of focusing on a handful of people who may try to vote twice for Trump's reelection, why not focus on making the process more efficient and other actual existential threats to the integrity of our Republic?  But no, we actually cut funding for programs designed to keep the election process secure (https://www.wired.com/2017/02/want-secure-elections-maybe-dont-cut-security-funding/).  Back to the witch hunt!

See if this analogy fits...

- An ice storm knocks a million electric customers off the grid. 
- There is a public movement to require the utility bury its lines to increase reliability.
- The utility fights it tooth and nail, but says they "listen to their customers" and begins some high-profile construction work.
- The work is so shoddy and recklessly invasive that the customers demand that it stop.
- The utility replies "thats what you said you wanted" but we will stop if you insist.

This is just another step in the ongoing process of disenfranchising voters of non-white background.  That is a process that goes back to right after the Civil War and has never stopped.  People who actually care about this country living up to its ideals will remain vigilant and never let your guard down for a moment.  The forces of true evil - Rupert Murdoch and his minions - never rest, and are always looking for ways to probe and prod and get a crack in the armor of democracy!

There is no meaningful voter fraud in this country - even the most harped about case, Kennedy and Cook County, Ill. was found to be just another Fake News story propagated by the predecessors to Fake Fox News.  Right wing extremists.  Occasional anecdotes find dead people still on the rolls... but since they are DEAD, they don't vote!!   As evidenced by the lack of the dead's signature on polling forms!  Just like every other registered voter who didn't vote.

It keeps being re-born in the minds of GOP think-tanks as new voter-suppression schemes.

White Republican lawmakers have used the concocted threat of voter fraud as an excuse to enact voter ID laws whose main purpose is to disqualify and discourage young, poor and minority voters, who disproportionately lack the required documents.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.9ecf9a0b78ff

Let's not forget the cute trick they pulled in Alabama or Mississippi. I forget which. They told minority voters they needed ID'S issued through their county DL agency, then promptly closed those agencies in poor communities.

I don’t know why, but i’m struck with the ridiculous idea of some schmoe complaining about the government wanting their Social Security number.  I mean the government already has your SSN since they issued it!

I know, right?

My concern is that they are asking for information from the states that includes addresses, phone numbers, voting records and the like.  Most of which are not in the publicly available records.

What's even more ridiculous is that two of the members of this commissions' states (Kansas and not sure of the other) have refused the request.  Kobach essentially refused his own request.  LOL.  You just can't make smile like this up.

Now its up to 41 states that will not completely comply.  And then it appears that all the information will be made public?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/03/politics/kris-kobach-letter-voter-fraud-commission-information/index.html

"President Donald Trump created by executive order in May, sent a letter to all 50 states last Wednesday requesting a bevy of voter data, which he notes will eventually be made available to the public.

The information the commission is seeking includes registrants' full names, addresses, dates of birth, political parties, the last four digits of their social security numbers, a list of the elections they voted in since 2006, information on any felony convictions, information on whether they were registered to vote in other states, their military status, and whether they lived overseas. " 

I find it interesting that after the Republicans cried about President Obama issuing a few executive orders: President Trump seems only issue them  Is that the only way he gets things done?  Has 45 gotten any bills passed lately?  

Two weeks ago he signed a bill to help veterans dealing with the VA. Since it involved veterans, I understand why you don't remember.

Great.  Then they don't need to ask for it.  I largely ignored the privacy issue and focused on the "why," to which there isn't a sound response.  But...

In reality, there are restrictions on when and how the government can publish or share private information between agencies.  This magic panel probably has no authority to obtain the private data on citizens on its own.  So it is trying to use States as proxies to get the information. 

Hypothetically speaking, if a foreign government with a desire to infiltrate and disrupt elections of other nations wanted to obtain voter information in the United States - they'd have to hack 50 systems.  Why would we want to streamline that for them when the underlying "benefit" is dubious at best.

Honest question, who actually holds voter information in a state. You have to register in the county that you live in, so I would think the bulk of the info would be there. I thought (possibly mistakenly) that the state election board enforced the rules and laws governing elections, and just a list of registered voters and party affiliation.

Really ??   That is what you are hanging your hat on??  

There were much more sweeping and better changes and large budget increases in funding during Obama than this.  And the biggest problems that led to the waiting lists scandals were both inherited by Obama and cured during his term!   This is one tiny piece of a big puzzle that may help over a long time, but really...??  That's all you got, huh?

The Oklahoma State Election Board is in charge, and delegates registration and other duties to County Election Boards.  The data they collect is public record by law - full name, address, date of birth, party affiliations, sex, registration date, and elections that the person has voted in.   Here is a database you, or the Orwellian named Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity can go and look it up (this particular database has since stopped publishing when people voted, but the info is publicly available and all political parties pay someone to pull and sort it.  That's how they make targeted mailing list and door knocking campaigns):

http://www.oklahomadata.com/

The Election Board:
https://www.ok.gov/elections/About_Us/index.html

Don't feel bad about not knowing, the blue ribbon panel didn't know either. They sent the request to the Secretary of State, which is not involved.
http://newsok.com/article/5554766

Thanks Cannon. That answers my question.

President Trump’s voter fraud commission may have violated the law by ignoring federal requirements governing requests for information from states.
http://thehill.com/regulation/other/340738-voter-fraud-commission-may-have-violated-law

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/14/white-house-releases-sensitive-personal-information-of-voters-worried-about-their-sensitive-personal-information

I can't begin to understand whatever passed for reasoning behind this. Are they so appallingly incompetent that they'd release this personal information or is it a cynical ploy to pressure their critics by siccing the alt-right hounds on them?

If you make a public comment, it has to be public....   Ever try filing comments on the FCC or anywhere else?   All public.   If you want to stay anonymous, post to a message board.

You do know.  It's the ongoing attack by the RWRE against people they don't want to see vote.  Always has been - at least for 150 years or so.

Head Of Trump Voter Fraud Probe Wanted To Change Law To Make Registering More Difficult
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kris-kobach-nvra_us_59698037e4b017418627ac98