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Non-Tulsa Discussions => Sports Talk => Topic started by: TulsaRufnex on June 18, 2017, 11:16:58 am



Title: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on June 18, 2017, 11:16:58 am
So, the Hubbard brothers/Tulsa Drillers are at the end of a three year commitment to USL soccer in Tulsa at ONEOk Park.
What's next? New owners? Would Funk Jr/Prodigal/OKC Energy FC divest or take over as majority owners?

And Sonny Dalesandro and Dr. Tommy Kern find Tulsa Athletic stuck at LaFortune Stadium for year five of their existence (and beyond?).
You'll have to excuse me, but matches played on artificial turf with permanent lines and tailgates next door to a high school parking lot at a stadium that doesn't serve beer leaves much to be desired.

Conference Championship Finals Highlights 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXmVN_hnUc

Seems like this was eons ago...

 John Klein: ONEOK Field impact? Nearly 2 million in 5 years
    By JOHN KLEIN Senior Sports Columnist Apr 12, 2015
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/johnklein/john-klein-oneok-field-impact-nearly-million-in-years/article_722cccd0-a742-5cf4-b3b3-a701b456f7f8.html
Quote
Ideally, the Hubbards, and many Tulsa soccer fans, would love to have a soccer-specific stadium.

“We would love to have a stadium for the Roughnecks,” Jeff Hubbard said. “I think it would be a terrific addition to everything that is happening in downtown Tulsa.

“A soccer stadium would be perfect for a lot of things. Certainly, long term that’s something the city will have to consider for the long-term success of professional soccer in Tulsa.”
Quote
Instead of the usual preseason work toward baseball’s opening day, the Drillers staff has been preparing for hosting three USL soccer matches for the Roughnecks at ONEOK.

It included a sellout for the season opener against Oklahoma City.

“It wasn’t just a sellout,” Dale Hubbard said. “We turned away hundreds of fans.

Before.
(http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.BVPR236pMVamtThWZekgXgEsDW&pid=15.1)(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/78/ff/74/78ff7476dfb8290397512c35e978fc8a.jpg)

After.
http://www.newson6.com/story/35677591/usa-bmx-headquarters-to-relocate-from-tulsa-fairgrounds
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/14152079_G.jpg)



Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 19, 2017, 05:39:01 am
Tulsa Roughnecks doing great. They have an affiliation with a MLS team, are averaging 4,000 a game attendance, and have an active local fan club with their own podcast
http://www.tulsaroustabouts.com/category/tss/

The team has played well and lost in extra time to FC Dallas (US Open defending champs) just last week .

Tuesday June 27th they play again in Tulsa (Twofer Tuesday) which means tickets are BOGO and even select concession items are $2.

Come to that game and I will buy you a beer.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on June 22, 2017, 08:32:30 am
Tulsa Roughnecks doing great.... are averaging 4,000 a game attendance, and have an active local fan club with their own podcast
http://www.tulsaroustabouts.com/category/tss/

Sorry but no, Tulsa Roughnecks FC are not "doing great."  
They've lost 4 of their last 5 and currently sit in 11th place out of 15 teams in the USL's Western Conference at a mark of 5 wins, 7 losses, 0 ties.
But after winning only 5 games in all of last year, anything remotely competitive this season is an improvement.

Michael, if I were to spot you at an Athletic game, I'd buy you a beer, but, unlike Energy FC matches at OKC public schools' Taft Stadium, beer sales are forbidden at TPS's LaFortune Stadium.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCkZF1fV0AAn920.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBcFgZ0UIAAfXr2.jpg)

I went to five Roughnecks FC games last season, and have already attended close to that many so far this year. Other than sitting behind the goals or roaming around the concourse, ONEOk has, by far, the worst viewing angles I've ever been forced to endure in attempting to watch a soccer game.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C74dfC5UwAEFJC2.jpg)

And ever since the final months of last season, the crowds at ONEOk Park are about half what they drew the first season.
Which is less butts in seats than what my Tulsa Athletics drew in 2013 and 2014 at the old ballpark.

https://twitter.com/TheSoccerTour/status/859059600892493824
 The Soccer Tour‏ @TheSoccerTour

How to announce attendance:
1. Count tickets sold
2. Count tickets distributed
3. Pull larger number out of your donkey


FC Cincinnati actually drew over 30,000 fans for their last US Open Cup game against MLS's Columbus Crew, a match they hosted, won, and now they'll be playing Tulsa's affiliated club, MLS's Chicago Fire, in the next round of the cup. Cincy came out of nowhere to become a contender for the next round of MLS expansion in large part due to the kinds of crowds they've been drawing at University of Cincinnati's Nippert Stadium...

(http://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/photo/7425/9025/stadium_toronto_6-18__4__large.JPG)

Wish we had a modestly sized college football stadium like Cincy... oh, wait... we do...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8qAwC_UMAE4Atk.jpg)


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Conan71 on June 23, 2017, 01:49:42 pm
Roughnecks at Skelly was such a great show...always.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on June 29, 2017, 04:41:24 pm
Wednesday night on ESPN...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDc7QHnWsAACLwc.jpg)

FC Cincinnati shows there is no limit to what American soccer can become
On Wednesday night, over 32,000 people showed up to watch a minor-league team play in a scarcely covered secondary competition. It was incredible.
by Kevin McCauley@kevinmccauley Jun 29, 2017, 12:12pm EDT

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2017/6/29/15891714/fc-cincinnati-chicago-fire-2017-us-open-cup

Quote
We have the U.S. Open Cup — the perfect vessel for stories like FC Cincinnati’s — to thank for bringing us this moment. Like other more famous cup competitions around the world, the U.S. Open Cup allows anyone to qualify and starts with amateur teams, then gradually introduces higher level teams with each round. Fourth-division teams face qualifiers in the first round, then second- and third-division teams enter, then MLS teams join the party in the fourth round, when only a handful of smaller teams remain.

Amateur teams very rarely make it far enough to face off against MLS sides, but Christos FC bucked the trend this season, beating two semi-pro sides and pro team Richmond Kickers to earn a matchup with D.C. United. The amateur squad named after a Baltimore liquor store did not beat the Black and Red, but they did score the opening goal of the game. The reactions of their friends and family produced one of the best sports videos you’re going to see this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-FBc-6IdQk


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on June 29, 2017, 05:16:34 pm
Meanwhile in Little Rock...

Rangers melting pot leading LR soccer to new heights
http://www.thv11.com/sports/rangers-melting-pot-leading-lr-soccer-to-new-heights/452903763

Tulsa Athletic will be hosting Little Rock Rangers in the regular season finale on Saturday, July 8th at 7:30pm.
It will be VFW Appreciation Night at LaFortune Stadium.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Conan71 on June 29, 2017, 09:55:59 pm
Wednesday night on ESPN...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDc7QHnWsAACLwc.jpg)

FC Cincinnati shows there is no limit to what American soccer can become
On Wednesday night, over 32,000 people showed up to watch a minor-league team play in a scarcely covered secondary competition. It was incredible.
by Kevin McCauley@kevinmccauley Jun 29, 2017, 12:12pm EDT

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2017/6/29/15891714/fc-cincinnati-chicago-fire-2017-us-open-cup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-FBc-6IdQk

^^ This is just cool as smile!


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on June 30, 2017, 06:17:51 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDm9J7ZXsAA2PUd.jpg:large)


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on June 30, 2017, 06:26:56 pm
Several times before the start of the 2013 season, Sonny and a couple of others consistently mentioned the NPSL's Detroit City FC as a template for what they wanted to do at the old ballpark.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/2015/09/10/detroit-city-fc-wants--move--hamtramck-stadium/71999716/

Tonight in Detroit at Keyworth Stadium (yes, they are allowed by the local public school system to sell beer there).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDm532IW0AAFEf_.jpg)


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on July 08, 2017, 01:09:27 pm
Regular season finale.
Saturday's match will be VFW Appreciation night as we honor those who have fought for our freedom. Proceeds from ticket sales will go towards our local VFW Post.

(https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19702500_1559037060835447_7275276806951054284_n.jpg?oh=a1f563ef2a7254afe87e34dc9185c7f7&oe=59CF2AC2)


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TulsaRufnex on August 15, 2017, 06:14:20 pm
The equivalent of a AA or AAA baseball team playing the Yankees or Mets... from Univ of Cincy's Nippert Stadium... single elimination tourney semi-finals...

http://www.ussoccer.com/lamar-hunt-us-open-cup/open-cup-tournaments/2017-usoc/2017-us-open-cup-semifinals-final/20170815-us-open-cup-semifinals-fc-cincinnati-vs-new-york-red-bulls

Announced attendance at a college football stadium in Cincinnati: 33,250

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHUGMobXgAArNok.jpg)

Why not Tulsa?

Crowd of more than 30,000...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3cE9w82Bow

Crowd of over 26,000...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzlzaoRyF5M

Crowd of over 30,000...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUVhlSCpA84


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on October 17, 2017, 07:12:06 pm

(https://www.aupaircare.com/sites/default/files/styles/story_full/public/images/austin-au-pair.png?itok=c8qdk8L7)
Austin, Texas?

Quote
The Columbus Crew, one of MLS’s original teams, is angling to move its franchise to Austin, Texas, SI.com has learned.

Columbus owner Anthony Precourt is set to announce in a press conference on Tuesday that he will move his team to Austin in 2019 if a downtown soccer stadium for the Crew cannot be finalized in the next year.


Columbus Crew Angling Toward Relocation to Austin in 2019:  https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/16/columbus-crew-austin-texas-anthony-precourt-stadium?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si (https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/16/columbus-crew-austin-texas-anthony-precourt-stadium?utm_campaign=sinow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si)




Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on October 17, 2017, 08:01:40 pm
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4329/35289593343_11f43a5bfd_b.jpg)
Not sure how long the USL will give our two state USL teams to get soccer specific stadiums:

Quote
United Soccer League has a goal to have each of its clubs playing in or building soccer-specific stadiums that meet USSF standards by 2020.

Taft Stadium in OKC doesn't meet the specifications for a soccer specific stadium:

Quote
The Energy also recognizes that Taft Stadium is not viable long-term because it does not meet United States Soccer Federation standards. Taft is only 67 yards wide, three yards short of the minimum USSF standard. Funk Jr. confirmed that the club is unable to host U.S. Open Cup games at Taft because the pitch is too narrow.

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/football-stadium-arena-green-seats-grass-blue-sky-46733875.jpg)
Oklahoma City Energy MLS soccer stadium plans.

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5612e13ae4b0c37386e86b7e/56742caecbced6269950d022/56742dc7cbced6269950dabb/1450454475369/Wheeler+Aerial+2+-+From+the+River.jpg?format=750w)
    
Wheeler Park district master plans.
Quote
The Wheeler District is a new community in the center of Oklahoma City, located along the southern bank of the Oklahoma River less than two miles from the downtown. The 180 acre site was previously the Downtown Airpark and Capital Hill, a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood, is located just south of the site...  ...The Wheeler District is a new urban village that will grow over time to become the most walkable, bikable neighborhood in the region that focuses on family and modern pioneers with a range of housing options and building types not available elsewhere in the City.
OKC Energy moving forward with Major League Soccer stadium plans after Co-Op acquisition falls through:  http://newsok.com/article/5555634 (http://newsok.com/article/5555634)

Wheeler Park area emerges as top candidate for soccer stadium:  http://newsok.com/article/5555631 (http://newsok.com/article/5555631)




Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on October 18, 2017, 04:25:36 pm
.

2017 United Soccer League  Attendance as of October 15, 2017

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=9186 (http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=9186)


(http://media.socastsrm.com/wordpress/wp-content/blogs.dir/208/files/2016/05/WHWk29mN_400x400.jpeg)

2017 USL teams with an attendance average of 3,000 or better:

FC Cincinnati............................    16    339,164  21,198
Sacramento Republic FC.............   16    185,104   11,569
Louisville City FC.......................    16    137,801  8,613
San Antonio FC.........................    16    114,430  7,152
Rio Grande Valley FC Toros.........    16    113,076  7,067    
Phoenix Rising FC......................    16    98,020    6,126
Tampa Bay Rowdies...................    16    94,306    5,894    
Reno 1868 FC...........................    16    88,950    5,559
Ottawa Fury FC.........................    16    86,839    5,427    
Richmond Kickers......................    16    74,636    4,665
Saint Louis FC...........................    16    73,139    4,571
OKC Energy FC..........................    16    68,685    4,293
Tulsa Roughnecks FC..................    16    61,619    3,851
Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC .   16    54,222    3,389
Charleston Battery......................    16    50,400    3,150
Bethlehem Steel FC....................    16    48,837    3,052    

            


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on October 18, 2017, 04:45:52 pm
“A fool and his money are soon parted”.
 
Is MLS A Ponzi Scheme?  

Quote
It’s a bit of a strange course for a sports league that isn’t exactly lighting it up in terms of attendance, viewership, or revenue. MLS may be allegedly growing in popularity—you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a claim of its popularity with urban millennials—but it’s still miles behind the England’s Premier League and Spain’s La Liga and Germany’s Bundesliga and probably another half-dozen leagues around the world in terms of both talent and viewership. And as far as North American sports leagues go, it’s a distant fifth behind the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL. When Forbes last looked at MLS finances, it had to perf[orm mathematical contortions to explain why franchise values are rising even as annual losses continue to mount.

https://deadspin.com/is-mls-a-ponzi-scheme-1797509617?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow (https://deadspin.com/is-mls-a-ponzi-scheme-1797509617?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)    



Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TeeDub on October 19, 2017, 10:06:20 pm

I enjoy to watch it once in a while....   It seems a shame that they can't work something out to get a better venue than the ballpark.

It seems like a great fit for one of the local high schools to make some extra bucks..   or back in the old Skelly stadium as an 80s throwback.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on October 27, 2017, 01:37:02 pm
(http://www.skylinescenes.com/image?filename=tulsa_01_9401_up.jpg&width=300&height=0) (http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/oklahoma/tulsa_skelly2.jpg) (https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/fd/afd9f36a-fa6b-5a2a-8332-e8e36c5d113f/523d93a76a3d3.image.jpg)
Tulsa does have a better potential support advantage historically than OKC in that there are currently no major professional sports franchises (like NBA) to compete for the sports dollar.

OKC recently approved on September 12 a bond & MAPS III two year extension initiatives investing more than $1.5 billion (over10 years) in critical infrastructure like streets and sidewalks, including an annual $26 million boost for public safety and other day-to-day operations. Cyber & structural upgrades to The Peake & $27.5 million in funds to expand & renovate ASA Hall of Fame Stadium:  http://newsok.com/voters-decide-bond-sales-tax-measures/article/5563872 (http://newsok.com/voters-decide-bond-sales-tax-measures/article/5563872)

See very little public funds support available (next 2 years) for an MLS stadium. Funk Jr., expects MLS to eventually expand to 32 teams.  

Mayor Mick Cornett did indicate that the city would provide some infrastructure & support if an MLS venue were built & an MLS franchise were secured.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on December 20, 2017, 08:54:29 am
Does Skelly Stadium have the same width problem as Taft Stadium?  I would think so.  The latest renovation moved the stands closer to the sidelines. 

Is there really no other alternative for the A's than LaFortune?  Why can't they play at TU?  As a private institution, surely they could sell beer there.  Even the practice field could hold a decent NPSL crowd.  It has tiered berm-like seating that I think is pretty neat. 

Isn't there a way to move the field at ONEOK closer to the stands with a removable pitchers mound?  I thought I read that somewhere.  It's a pricey technology, but since they are doing pretty well with attendance you'd think it would be worth it by now to improve the sight lines.

A soccer-specific stadium would be a boon for downtown, but there seems to be no push at all for it, and it didn't make Visions renewal, so that won't come back up for a long, long time.  Such a shame.  They could hold a high school "game of the week" downtown and make use of it for concerts and other events.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 20, 2017, 09:54:19 am
Does Skelly Stadium have the same width problem as Taft Stadium?  I would think so.  The latest renovation moved the stands closer to the sidelines.

The front wall at HA Chapman stadium is stone and conrete, it was not moved closer during renovations, but it is really close to the field.

Quote
Is there really no other alternative for the A's than LaFortune?  Why can't they play at TU?  As a private institution, surely they could sell beer there.  Even the practice field could hold a decent NPSL crowd.  It has tiered berm-like seating that I think is pretty neat. 

The soccer field at TU could certainly sell beer (the football stadium already does).  Obviously it is regulation sized.  However, I don't think TU generally uses their facilities for outside events for a variety of reasons (using it for their soccer games, security/liability risks, overusing fields kills the grass).  Not saying it couldn't or shouldn't happen, just that I'm not aware of TU or most other Universities doing so.

Quote
Isn't there a way to move the field at ONEOK closer to the stands with a removable pitchers mound?  I thought I read that somewhere.  It's a pricey technology, but since they are doing pretty well with attendance you'd think it would be worth it by now to improve the sight lines.

Here is a list of stadiums with moveable seating:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movable_seating

15 stadiums in the world, mostly utilized by professional sports teams.  So the $horot an$wer is nope.

Quote
A soccer-specific stadium would be a boon for downtown, but there seems to be no push at all for it, and it didn't make Visions renewal, so that won't come back up for a long, long time.  Such a shame.  They could hold a high school "game of the week" downtown and make use of it for concerts and other events.

The math must not have worked out yet.  Quality soccer stadiums take up a lot of room and cost a lot of money. OKC is spending $25 million plus the cost of the land (probably around $5 million if downtown Tulsa).  I'd love to see UCAT sell land for such a project north of the Tulsa Arts District, but in that it would lesson the use of the Driller's stadium and cost the Roughnecks more money while not being obviously utilized for much else...  it's a tough sell for public money or private investment.

Hope I'm wrong.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TeeDub on December 20, 2017, 10:43:11 am
Isn't there a way to move the field at ONEOK closer to the stands with a removable pitchers mound?  I thought I read that somewhere.  It's a pricey technology, but since they are doing pretty well with attendance you'd think it would be worth it by now to improve the sight lines.

It could happen.   https://www.si.com/soccer/photos/2015/03/16/soccer-baseball-stadiums#19

But what fun is using someone else's stadium when you can get the taxpayers to spend another $20 million for something that sits empty 75% of the time?


You can ignore the "overusing fields kills the grass" for TU's Skelly stadium...   It is astroturf (or whatever the new version is called).


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: swake on December 20, 2017, 11:11:29 am
You can ignore the "overusing fields kills the grass" for TU's Skelly stadium...   It is astroturf (or whatever the new version is called).

Not the soccer fields.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TeeDub on December 20, 2017, 11:33:18 am
Not the soccer fields.

Did someone mention the soccer fields?     They only hold 2000 and the lowest attendance was in excess of 3000.   Seems moot.



Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: swake on December 20, 2017, 11:42:40 am
Did someone mention the soccer fields?     They only hold 2000 and the lowest attendance was in excess of 3000.   Seems moot.



Yes, both DowntownDan and Cannon mentioned the TU soccer fields and cannon mentioned overuse and the impact on the grass.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on December 20, 2017, 12:25:16 pm
It could happen.   https://www.si.com/soccer/photos/2015/03/16/soccer-baseball-stadiums#19

But what fun is using someone else's stadium when you can get the taxpayers to spend another $20 million for something that sits empty 75% of the time?


You can ignore the "overusing fields kills the grass" for TU's Skelly stadium...   It is astroturf (or whatever the new version is called).

Yeah, I'm not talking about moving seats, but the pitchers mound so that you can position the field right along the third base stands.  The ONEOK setup avoids having to flatten the mound, and it causes the bad sightlines.  That one change could make a world of difference.

Did someone mention the soccer fields?     They only hold 2000 and the lowest attendance was in excess of 3000.   Seems moot.

I'm talking about the A's for TU, not the Roughnecks.  I don't think the A's crowds are as large.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 20, 2017, 02:26:36 pm
Yeah, the A's for Tulsa's soccer stadium is what I was thinking.  Skelly might work for the Roughnecks, but not if they want a regulation pitch (and other issues with trying to use someone else's facilities).

Also, I misread the movable stands thing.  Moving the mound seems like a much simpler solution, but it would move everyone further away from the lawn.  Of course, you could add bleaches in the "outfield" to make it seem much more like a soccer stadium.  Poor, poor groundskeepers.  :)

In my opinion, baseball stadiums just struggle to make good soccer stadiums.  Then again, $20mil is a lot of money...


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 21, 2017, 03:49:50 pm
I have paid monthly dues for now eight plus years for two kids to play soccer. They have played for TSC, Blitz, Nationals, and WSA. The overwhelming majority of kids who play competitive soccer live in south Tulsa, Jenks, Bixby, or Broken Arrow.

Why do we only consider downtown locations for a new stadium?

There are struggling shopping centers on two corners of 71st and Memorial. The area is packed with everything needed for a stadium to work. Hotels, transit, parking, and restaurants to get money out of fans before and after games.

Tell me why this isn't a better choice for a soccer stadium than downtown.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 21, 2017, 05:32:12 pm
A downtown soccer stadium makes sense for all the same reasons you pointed out for the downtown baseball stadium...

(I had a longer post no one was going to read, simplified it)


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TeeDub on December 21, 2017, 05:36:19 pm

Seems like it would be a perfect partnership for an existing stadium (college or high school)

Maybe someone can talk TCC into building a stadium at their southeast campus.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on December 21, 2017, 11:15:55 pm
Oklahoma has two USL franchises (Roughnecks FC & Energy FC); USL wants all of its franchises in soccer specific stadium by 2020.  USL announced in May 2015 a multi-year partnership with the global design, architecture, engineering and planning firm HOK with an eye toward housing all 24 of their clubs in soccer-specific stadiums by the end of the decade.  

Has anyone seen any plans for soccer specific stadium in Tulsa or OKC?

Will the USL allow soccer clubs to retrofit or modify baseball stadiums to accommodate soccer franchises?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Chukchansi.jpg/1200px-Chukchansi.jpg)
Chukchansi Park (capacity 12,500), formerly Grizzlies Stadium was completed in 2002' it's a city-owned baseball stadium located in Fresno, California, home for the PCL's Grizzlies.
(Looks similar to Tulsa's ONEOK Park).

Fresno (2018) and Birmingham (2019) will be the next franchises to join the United Soccer League.  Can soccer fans find happiness inside a baseball park? Fresno’s new USL club says yes:  http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/marek-warszawski/article176312111.html (http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/marek-warszawski/article176312111.html)

USL Rio Grande Valley -RGV-FC (Toros) new 9,500 seat soccer stadium in Edinburg, Texas
(https://houston-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/styles/image_default/s3/mp6/image_nodes/2015/07/DL_RGVFCDynamo-Jun2015-StadiumInteriorView.jpg?M5JG1Ll_18bxQ8aDk_gZ30yvoA__V9is&itok=78pYTSek) (https://rgvaerialphotography.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/stadium-3-1.jpg?w=525)
Estimated cost: $36 million. The venue includes a full-service restaurant, sports bar, practice fields, executive lounges, a sports bar & 33 suites.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on December 23, 2017, 03:52:58 pm
Oklahoma City dismantling the Producers Cooperative Mill:

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop100817a.jpg)

Clearing & cleaning up this clinking, clanking, clattering collection of collagenous junk; then some real development can begin. TIF (Tax Increment Financing): Council approves plan for as many as six districts near downtown OKC.

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record   September 17, 2015
As many as six tax increment finance districts could be triggered near downtown Oklahoma City over the next 10 years

(http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop122317b.jpg)

Oklahoma City voters approve $967 million bonds and sales tax package measures: http://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-voters-approve-bonds-and-sales-tax-measures (http://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-voters-approve-bonds-and-sales-tax-measures)

The bond propositions are comprised of a 10-year, $967 million package. The money will go to streets, police and fire facilities, parks and other basic needs. Voters also approved a temporary continuation of an expiring MAPS 3 penny sales tax to raise $240 million to fund street resurfacing, streetscapes, trails, sidewalks and more. The last tax measure creates a permanent 1/4 sales tax to provide funding for police and fire. The tax rates kick in January 1, 2018


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Conan71 on December 23, 2017, 09:39:41 pm
Oklahoma City dismantling the Producers Cooperative Mill:


Clearing & cleaning up this clinking, clanking, clattering collection of collagenous junk; then some real development can begin. TIF (Tax Increment Financing): Council approves plan for as many as six districts near downtown OKC.

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record   September 17, 2015
As many as six tax increment finance districts could be triggered near downtown Oklahoma City over the next 10 years


Oklahoma City voters approve $967 million bonds and sales tax package measures: http://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-voters-approve-bonds-and-sales-tax-measures (http://okcfox.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-voters-approve-bonds-and-sales-tax-measures)

The bond propositions are comprised of a 10-year, $967 million package. The money will go to streets, police and fire facilities, parks and other basic needs. Voters also approved a temporary continuation of an expiring MAPS 3 penny sales tax to raise $240 million to fund street resurfacing, streetscapes, trails, sidewalks and more. The last tax measure creates a permanent 1/4 sales tax to provide funding for police and fire. The tax rates kick in January 1, 2018

So the road to the north of the old Coop, that's the old alignment for I-40 isn't it?  Interesting how they managed to pull that out and improve derelict properties just south of the downtown area.  How much did the re-alignment of I-40 end up costing?


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on December 24, 2017, 01:31:25 pm


So the road to the north of the old Coop, that's the old alignment for I-40 isn't it?  Interesting how they managed to pull that out and improve derelict properties just south of the downtown area.  How much did the re-alignment of I-40 end up costing?


(http://8020.photos.jpgmag.com/3514601_139501_596d0fc8ae_p.jpg)
The new I-40 (10 lanes) constructed 5 blks south of downtown cost $360 million; built to handle 170,000 vehicles daily, it replaces the old I-40, (state's busiest Crosstown was a 6 lanes thoroughfare; now under construction as Oklahoma City Boulevard $76 million) was built to handle 75,000 vehicles daily; it was overcrowded with 120,000

(http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/13757717_SA.jpg) (https://www.macokc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/OKC-Boulevard-430x290.jpg)
 Broadway Extension I-235/I-44 interchange is undergoing an extensive redo & OKC Blvd., old I-40.  http://newsok.com/article/5502245 (http://newsok.com/article/5502245)
(https://www.ok.gov/odot/images/DJI_Lindsey%20St_web.jpg)
I-35 Norman Lindsey Street Bridge nears completion.


(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-3479da4b1a606f18f9410009fb28387a.jpg)
New Norman interchange crossing the South Canadian River.
Unfortunately, this new route has created a redo of I-235/I44 Broadway Extension; OKC core construction is sandwiched between construction projects that involved Norman & Edmond.


(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-99eff259952cd4e61b4e1156c9b5e853.jpg)
OKC's long-neglected interstate highways and bridges are scheduled to get some much needed maintenance and traffic capacity upgrades. That's the good news. Bad news:  It is very difficult to navigate throughout the Oklahoma City metropolitan area & downtown core where the 6.8 mile streetcar route rails are under construction soon to finish near the new convention center & 600-room Omni Hotel site.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on December 26, 2017, 01:35:42 pm
Oklahoma has two USL franchises (Roughnecks FC & Energy FC); USL wants all of its franchises in soccer specific stadium by 2020.  USL announced in May 2015 a multi-year partnership with the global design, architecture, engineering and planning firm HOK with an eye toward housing all 24 of their clubs in soccer-specific stadiums by the end of the decade.  

Has anyone seen any plans for soccer specific stadium in Tulsa or OKC?

Will the USL allow soccer clubs to retrofit or modify baseball stadiums to accommodate soccer franchises?


I think OneOk could work full time if they used the same technology as others to remove the pitching mound for soccer, which is why I mentioned it in an earlier post.  It would improve the sight lines immensely.  The third base seats would essentially be parallel to the sideline seats.  I think they might also be able to widen the pitch a little.  The technology is worth the cost.  Here are examples of others that are using it, including MLS at Yankee Stadium.  

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/soccer/louisville-city-fc/2015/02/26/retractable-mound-saves-louisville-city-fc/24073431/

https://www.si.com/soccer/planet-futbol/2014/04/15/nycfc-new-york-yankees-yankee-stadium-mls-mlb-soccer-baseball

https://www.si.com/soccer/photos/2015/03/16/soccer-baseball-stadiums

The Roughnecks have done well thus far, but a soccer specific stadium just doesn't seem to be in our future.  Attendance average of 4,500 is good, but will be a difficult sell for a $30-$40 million investment.  I would support it, but can see legitimate pushback.  Nevertheless, I don't see any reason a baseball stadium with better sight lines isn't sufficient for minor league soccer.  Even the current setup is fine, though not ideal.



Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TeeDub on December 26, 2017, 09:53:47 pm

I've been to a couple of games with my kids.   Sitting in the lawn was nice, but it would probably have been better with real seats.

At least until they get the attendance up, it seems that the lower cost, under-utilized stadium option would be the most advantageous to everyone.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 27, 2017, 05:22:03 pm
And after all that, they still do nothing to fix the I-35 to  I-40 crossover mess.  One lane exiting 40 onto 35.  One lane exiting 35 onto 40.  Shameful.

Drove it yesterday and today - always a mess.



Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Conan71 on December 28, 2017, 12:27:44 am
And after all that, they still do nothing to fix the I-35 to  I-40 crossover mess.  One lane exiting 40 onto 35.  One lane exiting 35 onto 40.  Shameful.

Drove it yesterday and today - always a mess.



I dunno man, imagine Okrahoma drivers in two lanes going either direction with their cell phones out, putting on make up and screaming at their kids in the back seat.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on December 28, 2017, 02:25:59 pm
And after all that, they still do nothing to fix the I-35 to  I-40 crossover mess.  One lane exiting 40 onto 35.  One lane exiting 35 onto 40.  Shameful.

Drove it yesterday and today - always a mess.

(http://constructionnews.acppubs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/310295-1-eng-GB_cover-photo-765x409.jpg)

(http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/20220763_BG1.jpg)
Demolition of old Downtown I-35
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiL8rOlw63YAhWjjVQKHZ5JAfoQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news9.com%2Fstory%2F20220763%2Fconceptual-designs-for-western-end-of-okc-boulevard-up-for-review&psig=AOvVaw28ztqJo98LhU17L_dNUcvh&ust=1514578501854804)
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiL8rOlw63YAhWjjVQKHZ5JAfoQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news9.com%2Fstory%2F20220763%2Fconceptual-designs-for-western-end-of-okc-boulevard-up-for-review&psig=AOvVaw28ztqJo98LhU17L_dNUcvh&ust=1514578501854804)

(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-750d1f77b0c7a78bc8eabaef2b40b091.jpg) (https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/50th-bridge.png?w=388&h=258)
Got to admit, it is very difficult to get in, out & around OKC.                                                                                 New I-44/I-235 interchange under construction.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 29, 2017, 03:42:44 pm


Got to admit, it is very difficult to get in, out & around OKC.                                                                                 New I-44/I-235 interchange under construction.


That's a different place, couple miles north, I think.  Nothing changing at the "Dallas Junction"...right where the "new" First Nations Museum was supposed to go about $100 million ago... it's just another Oklahoma cluster.   I "live" a mile and a half south of there usually at least a couple days a week.







Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on December 30, 2017, 02:13:09 pm
You have some good things going in terms of sports facilities & new park you have built; a soccer specific stadium would be the next best venue.

(https://smartgrowthtulsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Soccer-Stadium-Sketch.jpg)
A VISION 2025 EXTENSION PROPOSAL in 2015 includes a soccer specific stadium & a Tulsa streetcar:  https://www.smartgrowthtulsa.org/a-vision-2025-extension-proposal/ (https://www.smartgrowthtulsa.org/a-vision-2025-extension-proposal/)

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/12252500_BG1.jpg) (https://photorator.com/photos/images/bok-center-in-downtown-tulsa-oklahoma-designed-by-csar-pelli--19223.jpg)
ONEOK Park, awesome outfield skyline view                                                  BOK Center, amazing exterior design by Csar Pelli
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/22620057_SA.jpg)
 
(https://theoklahoma100.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/web1_A-Gathering-Place-for-Tulsa-Oklahoma-100-680x467.jpg)
World Class Gathering Place Park; should complement the existing River Parks along the Arkansas River.

We've seen much progress between Oklahoma's two largest metropolitan areas within the past 20 years;  there's more to come.

.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: MostSeriousness on January 18, 2018, 01:36:59 pm
Looks like new plans are underway for the soccer side of ONEOK Field:

http://www.roughnecksfc.com/news_article/show/877298?referrer_id=2689357


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: TeeDub on January 18, 2018, 08:25:05 pm

Best answer ever.   I almost wish someone here had proposed something similar.

That should honestly make going to the games even better.   


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on January 24, 2018, 11:33:49 am
Looks like new plans are underway for the soccer side of ONEOK Field:

http://www.roughnecksfc.com/news_article/show/877298?referrer_id=2689357

Nice, and only a few weeks after I suggested it in this thread!  It will help the sight lines tremendously!  Not as ideal as a soccer specific stadium, but a massive improvement!  I still don't think it will fit an american football field, so a soccer specific stadium could still be pitched as a venue for a high school "game of the week" to make sure it gets a lot of use.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2018, 01:39:23 pm
Nice, and only a few weeks after I suggested it in this thread!  It will help the sight lines tremendously!  Not as ideal as a soccer specific stadium, but a massive improvement!  I still don't think it will fit an american football field, so a soccer specific stadium could still be pitched as a venue for a high school "game of the week" to make sure it gets a lot of use.



Maybe someone in their organization watches this place.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: D-TownTulsan on January 24, 2018, 02:43:12 pm
I'd be a fan of a stadium similar to what FC Dallas, and The Columbus Crew have in the parking lot black hole downtown. Those stadiums have a stage element behind one of the goals, adding another use for concerts and whatnot. I was thinking (Though I know this would be super far-fetched) it would be cool to have a sort of "Outdoor Chili Bowl" happen every year. Hell, you could even get away with having some rodeo action going on there, given Tulsa's relationship with the PBR. Tons of opportunities that Tulsans will overlook because they see an empty soccer stadium half of the year unfortunately. I'd love to see this as a mixed use opportunity, and to have something architecturally significant (to compliment the BOK).


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on January 25, 2018, 10:49:44 am
I'd be a fan of a stadium similar to what FC Dallas, and The Columbus Crew have in the parking lot black hole downtown. Those stadiums have a stage element behind one of the goals, adding another use for concerts and whatnot. I was thinking (Though I know this would be super far-fetched) it would be cool to have a sort of "Outdoor Chili Bowl" happen every year. Hell, you could even get away with having some rodeo action going on there, given Tulsa's relationship with the PBR. Tons of opportunities that Tulsans will overlook because they see an empty soccer stadium half of the year unfortunately. I'd love to see this as a mixed use opportunity, and to have something architecturally significant (to compliment the BOK).

I was also thinking that the stadium would include a building fronting a street that includes retail and restaurant space open year around (think how Greenwood businesses were sort of incorporated into the ballpark) and the field could be open to the public when not in use for a formal event.  But yeah, should have a staging area and a commitment to find ways to use it for things other than soccer games to keep it active year around.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: D-TownTulsan on January 25, 2018, 11:48:13 am
I was also thinking that the stadium would include a building fronting a street that includes retail and restaurant space open year around (think how Greenwood businesses were sort of incorporated into the ballpark) and the field could be open to the public when not in use for a formal event.  But yeah, should have a staging area and a commitment to find ways to use it for things other than soccer games to keep it active year around.

Agreed! If it were to be in the parking lot district, you essentially have a clean slate to create something really cool that could inform future development. As an architect, this would be the coolest project to tackle - One of the most difficult things is to create density from basically nothing. It's fragile too because you can't just force new context to exist, it has to listen and speak to the city.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: Laramie on February 01, 2018, 09:48:50 pm
(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/getpubliccontent?contentId=d1abd26c-2425-4f35-a5f2-44ce483cc893)
Oklahoma City Soccer Stadium
Quote
Mockup version of Oklahoma City Soccer Stadium, if it were to be used for Oklahoma State High School Football Championships. #American_Football #Field #Football #High_School #Oklahoma #OSSAA #Skydance_Bridge #Stadium #State #Union_Station

Despite the land acquisition setback, Funk Jr.'s stadium timeline remains on-track. The new location for the stadium, when finalized, will not have the originally planned real estate and commercial developments. The PCOM site also had a complicated clearing and cleanup process, which would have taken up to two years before building could begin.

The Energy also recognizes that Taft Stadium is not viable long-term because it does not meet United States Soccer Federation standards. Taft is only 67 yards wide, three yards short of the minimum USSF standard. Funk Jr. confirmed that the club is unable to host U.S. Open Cup games at Taft because the pitch is too narrow.--Excerpts: Oklahoman, July 8, 2017



Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on February 05, 2018, 10:55:01 am
From my office I can see them installing the sinking mound.  My iphone doesn't take good enough pics to make it worthwhile to post.  But it seems to be going quickly.


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on February 12, 2018, 08:06:40 am
Athletic are making an announcement on Thursday, including a different venue this season.  Any speculation or insight?


Title: Re: Does professional soccer have a future in Tulsa?
Post by: DowntownDan on February 15, 2018, 02:32:18 pm
Holy cow, I'm an oracle.  I mentioned the sinking mound for OneOk and then they do it.  In another thread I suggested Veterans Park for the Athletic, and today they announce they'll be playing their games there this season.  I think its a great move!  I'll be buying tickets for sure!