The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

That's a big footprint (and sizable surface lot) in the center of Brady/Greenwood.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/spaghetti-warehouse-closing-permanently-in-tulsa/article_677d330c-24e8-5d76-be1b-57b2796be051.html

Wow.
Not my favorite but I'm surprised it's closing considering it's survived so long.
That's a lot of empty space :(

End of an era.  At one time Spaghetti Warehouse was one of only a handful of downtown restaurants open for dinner.  Actually it wasn't all that long ago, maybe 15 years ago before McNellies and the wave of development after V2025.

Great redevelopment opportunity in the heart of Brady, I doubt it stays vacant for long.

The chain has been dying for a long time, they never had very good food and Tulsa was one of the last locations. Oklahoma City closed a year ago and after Tulsa closes there will only be ten stores left.

As for leaving the building empty, It's always been a lot of empty space. The upper floors were never used. I think this is positive as the whole building can be put into use now.

It's interesting how well it did and survived for years before anything else had developed down there, now it's all developed around it and it's going out. 

I think that went in around 1991 or 1992, 25 years isn't a bad run for a place which served "meh" food.

That is curious. The Bricktown one is literally at the epicenter, and still closed. And to my knowledge, nothing has moved in either. Of course, I don't know if that means irrational property owners, or no one wants it.

The building where the Bricktown SW was located is owned by an out-of-state investor that wasn't interested in rehabbing the upper floors or doing any other improvements.  Sounds like some properties in Tulsa.  I don't know who owns the Brady SW building, anyone know?  Does it include the parking lot?

Doesn't GKFF own the warehouse next door? I wonder if they bought it?

I've never been a fan of the food there.   I wonder if the increased competition was too much to offset the increased foot traffic.  Great location, neat building and atmosphere - but the food just never hit the mark when I was there.

Assessor records suggest Spaghetti Warehouse itself owns the building, but the parking lot is owned by a different entity.

Building owner: USRP FUNDING 2001 A LP C/O SPAGHETTI WAREHOUSE 065692

Parking lot owner: SWEATAC INC C/O DAVID B NIX & ASSOC

When I moved back to Tulsa in 2008 it was suggested we eat there, and it wasn't very good.  There was still only a handful of places to choose from.  Since then it has never once been suggested to me "hey, let's eat at Spaghetti Warehouse" and I haven't eaten there since.  I don't know how it's survived this long.

Friend or random hobo?

I think I ate there maybe twice and not in the last 20 years.

Next question, how does Mexicali stay in business?

Inspection reports from Health department...

http://www.tulsa-health.org/food-safety/restaurant-inspections/results-inspections

Mexicali has customers

I haven’t been there in 15 years or so, but Sp. Warehouse’s closing still makes me sad in a nostalgic sort of way.  When I moved back to Tulsa in 1997, it, along with Mexicali and (short-lived) Snooty Fox, was one of the few places to eat dinner in the Brady area.  In doing my part to try and help fulfill Mayor Savage’s prediction that the Brady District would be better than OKC’s Bricktown, I patronized all three, held my breath to drink a few beers at smoky Caz’s and even danced the night away a few times at the Hercules Motor Company.  Sp. Warehouse blazed a trail by going into an area few would go at the time and made it last for 25 years.  For that, they deserve a “well done.”

It seems to stay very busy on the weekends. I can't remember being in the Brady and not seeing it busy. Can't remember the last time I ate there, wife isn't a fan of Mexican or Tex-Mex food, but it does seem to stay busy.

I agree.  They came North of the railroad tracks when few would.  I've always liked that building and hope someone puts the property to good use.

Pepper's has been in business, although not at the original location, longer and is possibly just as "meh" .  But then again it's Tex-Mex.

Granted Spaghetti was way ahead in downtown dining.

 I heard Cheddar's is looking at this space.....

What a waste of an opportunity...

And weird if you ask me....I have never eaten there....But I guess it makes sense....

I haven't eaten at one, and after looking at the menus, I probably won't. Looks like a whole bunch of national chain meh.

Cheddar's should look at Tulsa Hills/Walk before thinking about downtown.

Isn't Cheddar's side of the interstate shopping center food?  I really hope whatever goes in that premium spot is not the equivalent of TGI Fridays or Chili's.  Talk about a waste of a great downtown space.   

Cheddars is a higher tier/price point. Like PF Changs isn't Panda Express.

Cheddar's is apparently owned by Darden Restaurants, whose portfolio includes suburbia stalwarts like Olive Garden and LongHorn Steakhouse.

Downside - Cheddar's would be a bummer.  Upside - downtown Tulsa's metrics have finally reached a threshold that triggers interest from national chain retailers.   

Some other positives (if true):  some people are only comfortable eating somewhere familiar.  Still others are excited for certain chains and will go out of their way to go there.  If a Cheddars makes more people comfortable downtown and/or draws more people, then bring it on.  (so long as they don't want to tear down the old brick building for a new shiny tilt up)

Downtown Tulsa dining: cool concepts with inconsistent results and so-so service.

This can be a big problem....

I agree. As long as they keep the building, a chain would be fine there. It is replacing a chain anyways. Downtown has a lot of local places and very small franchieses. It could probably use a couple big name franchises to bring in a different crowd (and keep people around who are going to Drillers/BOK events).

It would be neat if they could turn the 2nd floor into office or residential space and have the restaurant be just on the bottom floor but I am guessing a big part of the appeal to a new tenant would be the large space.

Random thought, but what would work great in there is one of the Pappas'  restaurants out of Houston.  A chain, yes, but a destination-type chain, and pretty high-end.  Papacito's or Papadeaux's would, I think, fit really well there.

Love me some Papadeaux's

Something we agree on.  I lived in Houston for 3 years in the nineties and ALL of their restaurants were great.  Pappas Seafood, Pappsita's, and Pappadeaux.  Tried my first bite of alligator from them.  Not sure how much they've changed in 25 years though.

Lived/worked in Dallas for a stretch, not far from the Pappadeaux on Oak Lawn. I mean, it's not the greatest food on the planet, but it is always really good. And I'm partial to cajun food to start so...

Been about 5 years though so I guess things could have changed.

I certainly don't know them all, but I don't ever recall seeing a Pappas restaurant in a reclaimed space. They were always constructed as restaurants with parking and everything.

Agreed. I've eaten at a lot of downtown places once. The one place I frequented most burned down. Most of the locals can't handle a crowd, and many others seem to eschew crowds by getting too stuck up with their concept. Basically every Elliot Nelson restaurant is under a different menu and operating model today than when it opened. Those that don't adapt usually close (Lucky's on the green, Back Alley, White Flag the first time, the 3 restaurants that were at 6th and Boston before Lasalle's, etc.)

That would be amazing!!

WPX Energy reportedly is buying this building for an expansion.  Not sure if they are moving people from the Tower here or just opening another location, anyone know?  Hopefully they redevelop the parking lot along Brady.

http://www.newson6.com/story/38233867/wpx-energy-to-expand-into-tulsa-arts-district (http://www.newson6.com/story/38233867/wpx-energy-to-expand-into-tulsa-arts-district)

I hope they don't tear it down. I can't imagine that building is big enough for them.

Maybe they have plans to expand into the adjacent building and parking lot.  More development around Guthrie Green.

From KOTV:

Well of course WPX must be considering building a new tower.  ;D

Honestly how this option hasn't been mentioned on an urban development thread at this point is pretty disappointing.

I am of course joking, but it is a bit surprising that hasn't been thrown out there yet. Our expectations must be thoroughly tamped down by now.

You may be too young, but there was a short bit on MadTV called "Lowered Expectations".   Always expect the worst, then can be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen...

I was hoping for spaghetti.  :-(

But seriously, when I think of a lively downtown I think more of eateries and less of office space.

Pretty vague details so far so not much to discuss.  I had once heard WPX was thinking about moving to the Santa Fe Square office tower.

If WPX is indeed buying the whole block and builds a new mixed-use HQ in those vacant buildings and on the parking lots then that is a major win for the Arts District and will spur additional development.  Excited to hear more as the details emerge. 

I hope their planning to renovate existing structures.  But with today's trends it's probably just the land to build a super fancy new building with plenty of parking.  Or maybe we can get a super cool mixed use complex, like this gem.

(http://www.bourncompanies.com/wp-content/uploads/Cimarex12-460x310.jpg)

I though it was Laredo going into Santa Fe Square?

I don’t see how 400 people fit into the Spaghetti Warehouse building.  I also wonder if the water damage from last winter’s burst pipe makes this building cost prohibitive to rehab.

With Santa Fe Square and the planned building across from Oneok Field, it seems there ought to be enough space (assuming either gets built timely) to accommodate WPX without having to take the risk of building its own building.

Having Guthrie Green across the street from your office would be a perk.  I agree though no way they all fit in a rehabbed Spaghetti Warehouse, but they could fit that many if they built out the entire block. 

Re: Laredo I had heard that too, but also WPX and Midstates Petroleum (that was before their failed merger with Sandridge).

I noticed that the building is boarded up. 

(https://i.imgur.com/roAWVU5l.jpg)

Hides the drug production

All the great development in downtown and the building that made it through all the hard times is boarded up.
Sad and it looks just awful :(

Keep it from getting banged up any more than it has.  Hopefully.

Not pretty.

I wonder if this means they are going to be renovating soon.

This is what I was thinking too.

Since they announced they were closing I had thought about what if a single developer were to buy the entire block and renovate the two buildings on the north side (incl. Spaghetti Warehouse) into offices and build new apartments or condos on the parking lot on the south side then connecting the buildings with an activated alleyway in between.  There is a project in Denver that just completed where they did this with existing and new buildings and created a cool alleyway space called Dairy Block:

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dPzDVWsvo8evxWBy6Gjz6cIeggU=/0x0:1200x800/1200x800/filters:focal(504x304:696x496)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56940843/Dairy_Block_Alley_2.0.0.jpg)

I think Spaghetti Warehouse was finished around 1991 or 1992 so at least most of the mechanical should be up to code or close and fully sprinkled.  I'd think a renovation of the space would be a good deal less than others which had little more than a slab and bare brick to start with. 

It won't sit vacant long unless there are any legal issues with it.

I like that!

Don't forget, it and the warehouse next door have already been bought, but not by a developer, WPX Energy. It seems they have plans to move.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/energy/report-wpx-energy-to-buy-former-spaghetti-warehouse-building/article_9f7ff2fa-f3d9-5bd5-ad14-1f5f336a63d0.html

I was just there so excuse all of the Denver references but for comparison this new building just outside downtown Denver is built for 200 employees of BP's Lower 48 HQ.  It takes up about the size of the half block parking lot on the Spaghetti Warehouse block.  No one really knows if this is intended for all of WPX's ~400 Tulsa employees or as a second downtown location for a certain division with fewer employees.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbWFnkos1xgnSnIq4cuINhWGK36ZWqAf57vT6a-VOJXAJ1pCh6)

I didn't know they also own the warehouse next door.  Is it the one that abuts Guthrie Green?  That's a lot of prime underutilized real estate.

The building has a drug problem? Man this is an epidemic.

I was just in Springfield, MO last weekend and experienced Commercial St.  Several blocks of renovated storefronts into shops, galleries and restaurants.  This is what we need to experience here  https://static1.squarespace.com/static/574889efcf80a1dfc9f00d7b/t/5abd278c03ce64b96d0f536e/1522345874503/CStreetMap_2018_03_Digitalwpng (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/574889efcf80a1dfc9f00d7b/t/5abd278c03ce64b96d0f536e/1522345874503/CStreetMap_2018_03_Digitalwpng)

more from their page  http://www.historiccstreet.com/history/ (http://www.historiccstreet.com/history/)  I did not see any non-local places.  White River brewery was pouring some decent beers.  Lots of walking traffic, families, couples.  If you haven't been to Springfield in a while I recommend a day trip. 

It’s probably boarded up due to the damage caused this past winter when a frozen sprinkler pipe burst.

That is really neat how much that area has grown! It is great the city preserved all of those stretches of old buildings for so long, both downtown and along commerce street. I'm wondering if it was more local laws or if they just kept them mostly occupied throughout the decades and avoided some of the urban sprawl we had here.

Springfield has a small but dense downtown. They don't have the big skyscrapers or many newer buildings like we have in Tulsa, but they have lots of the Victorian/early-1900s buildings that make it feel a bit like an old-fashioned-style downtown with lots of brick facade storefronts. All of Tulsa's stretches like that got demolished to put in bigger buildings (BOK Tower and it's garages) or parking lots. Because of the way Tulsa has been developed (used to be no regard for old buildings), we will never have anything like Commerce Street and that's fine and great for Springfield they've done that so well. Rose District is similar but much smaller and far fewer old buildings. Cherry Street and Brookside have their similarities, but just not at all the same sort of place.

Probably our most intact urban street is Boston Ave. from 3rd to 6th.  It's impressive but lacks the cohesive retail and restaurants like Commercial St.  Though outside of Commercial St Sprinfield is a pretty unremarkable place IMO.  Columbia MO is smaller but has a more vibrant downtown.

Urban renewal took out what was left of anything similar.  A couple other blocks that are mostly intact from that era are 5th St between Boston and Main, Main between Brady and Cameron and Greenwood between Archer and 244.

Commercial Street really has been remarkable for its recent development.  I grew up in Springfield and most of those buildings were empty or used furniture stores from the mid-1970s until recently.  However, Commercial St. is several miles north of downtown.  If I recall my Springfield history correctly, it may have even been a separate town at one point that developed along a separate rail line that ran north of town that eventually was gobbled up into the larger city.
 
I would say the closest comparison in Tulsa is Cherry St., although Cherry St. is surrounded by much more affluent and desirable housing and is closer to the downtown core.

It's 1.5 miles north of downtown so it is as far as TU is from downtown. Separate district for sure. Great that they renewed that and didn't demolish all those cool old buildings and building a great strip of seemingly every type of business.

And they are reaping the benefits of having people in charge and business owners who actually realized the buildings had value, even when vacant.

South Downtown Tulsa could've been the best urban neighborhood in Oklahoma with possibilities of this kind of strip had they not short-shortsightedly demolished it all. Back then, most people (especially Tulsans, apparently!) didn't realize how neat/historical/precious those old urban buildings were. They were just old ransacked crime-ridden eye sores with no future prospects. To be fair, the cost to fix them up was high and people were moving out of downtown fast so chances of renting them out were slim. But those decisions costed Tulsa the equivalent of another Brady Arts District type area or potential Commerce Street equivalent. Tens of millions in lost value and invaluable lost charm.

It is sad when Tulsa's downtown was far more urban in the 40s all the way up to the 60s when "urban renewal" was beginning. Fortunately, small towns rejected that so they have neat places like Commerce Street.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3f/8e/5e/3f8e5e00087b9c757c662182d665284e.jpg)

Interesting blog about what Tulsa lost with "urban renewal": http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/03/urban-renewal-what-we-lost.html (http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/03/urban-renewal-what-we-lost.html)

Thank you so much for posting that link!!   Loved seeing those pics.  Especially the first with the AAA Trading Post - knew Roscoe who ran the place for years.  Great to see that pic!!  Would go to Paul's loans, too but can't remember the people who ran it.  There was another one called Roy Oliver's that was somewhere near there, then moved over to the old Otasco store on east 2.   Rose is the only one left of that old group of shops and it moved to east 2nd during that time, too.  Got robbed at their old store around that time by a couple of idiots, one of whom got a dose of lead poisoning for his effort.

Also, the Rialto and Orpheum theaters were on Main (IIRC) and have been to both to see movies.  I think it was the Orpheum that had some beautiful fancy doors to the restrooms with frosted glass and gold lettering that I remember very well.  Plush carpet, ornate furnishings.  It was very much in the old Hollywood glitz style of the time.  Got to help tear them both down, sadly!

Well, some owners may have had foresight, but more likely Springfield’s downtown and Commercial St. buildings survived mostly in tact due to a near complete lack of demand to use those spaces for anything else.  It is hard to convey just how dormant those areas were for 2 decades.  In some ways, some of Tulsa’s interesting architecture fell victim to the fact downtown always maintained a large daytime work force that created the incentives to level old buildings for surface parking lots and new high rise buildings.

And I always love that postcard, even though it does make me sad.

That's seems a bit ironic at this point. Past economic hindrances contribute to current successes and vice versa (although, to be fair Tulsa's downtown has been booming for a while now, just  not much to renew in South Downtown).

I always thought it was a shame how Okmulgee has a sizable downtown full of beautiful, ornate unused buildings and how that would be amazing if only it were a bit closer to Tulsa because there's nothing else like that close by.

Sapulpa and McAlester also have good sized downtowns for their size.  And of course Bartlesville has several taller buildings and the famous Price Tower but doesn’t have as many older buildings left.

Sapulpa's downtown is doing well.  Pawhuska is being transformed, but not every little town has a rich rancher's wife who is a famous blogger/cookbook author/cooking TV star to make that happen.