The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

It looks like Amazon is about to start charging sales tax in Oklahoma. This is good news but there remains a question, is this just state sales tax or will cities receive new revenue as well?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahoma-watch-amazon-expected-to-charge-sales-taxes-soon-for/article_7f8f08af-0758-546a-913e-b9c45bdf37f4.html

What is Oklahoma doing to earn that money?   ...and what are Oklahoma citizens getting in return for paying it?

A fair playing field.

I think this will be nothing short of huge, especially for cities (if they are getting funds as well), as Amazon and others have “disrupted” into more and more businesses it has killed sales tax revenue for the state and cities.

It will have the ancillary benefit of helping brick and mortar stores. If the price is the same online and in a store many people will forgo shipping costs or want the instant gratification of not waiting for shipping.  This needs to be expanded to more and more online stores.

Keeping track of what is owed for "use tax" is now more of a hassle.
Some retails collect taxes, others don't
What taxes do they collect?
etc.

I click "buy" and it's on my doorstep in two days.  No crowd, no driving, no checkout line, no bad roads, no parking, no door dings, no shipping = no brick and mortar.

The legal question has always been what is Amazon getting?  My understanding is that Amazon could not be forced to collect sales taxes on behalf of the State of Oklahoma because they had no actual operations in the State of Oklahoma.  They don't use our roads, infrastructure, etc. (UPS, USPS, and FedEx do... which all pay Oklahoma taxes). However, citizens of the State of Oklahoma are not exempt from reporting the purchase and paying the tax.  It just never happens.

Amazon's other argument (other than "you can't make us") is that other online transactions are not taxed.  Etsy, Ebay, smaller retailers, whatever.  So it hurts their competitiveness if they are forced to (police the big guy, not the little one).  Given that Amazon is the 80 gorilla in online sales, they aren't likely to lose their hegemony.

Finally - it is sadly basically irrelevant inn the big picture about how broke our current leadership has left us.  Assuming Amazon accounts for a full 50% of all Oklahoma online sales and we tax it all, the estimate is it will bring in an additional $150,000,000.00.  Or enough to make up for 16% of this years budget shortfall.    

I'm not against collecting online sales tax, but it seems like the government is trying to say we are broke due to online sales.  The numbers provided in that article just don't support that conclusion.

Which is exactly why I use it.  Prime pays for itself (for me anyway) usually in the first two months of the year.  Plus you get TV shows much like Netflix.  I only go shopping for groceries at brick and mortars now.  I understand the whole 'shop local' thing, but people are looking for ways to save.

While Amazon has the ability to write a program to handle this I am sure.  These are the codes that they will have to use to determine how the sales tax will be calculated.  Imagine making every ebay seller having to do this in every state.  There is a county and a city code that has to be entered.  Sometimes part of the city won't have a county tax and the other part will.  It can get confusing.

https://www.ok.gov/tax/documents/copo2Q15.pdf (https://www.ok.gov/tax/documents/copo2Q15.pdf)

Gov. Mary Fallin: Amazon to charge sales taxes starting in March for customers in Oklahoma

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/gov-mary-fallin-amazon-to-charge-sales-taxes-starting-in/article_7f8f08af-0758-546a-913e-b9c45bdf37f4.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/gov-mary-fallin-amazon-to-charge-sales-taxes-starting-in/article_7f8f08af-0758-546a-913e-b9c45bdf37f4.html)

As much as I trust OK's government, my first reaction to this headline was "I wonder if Amazon agrees with her."

The story Townsend posted has an estimate of about $56 million, after the cities and counties get their cut the state nets about 1/2 of that.

If Amazon doesn't have nexus in Oklahoma, I'm trying to figure out what their incentive is to start collecting sales tax as supposedly it makes them less competitive.  Honestly, even with sales tax, I'll use them because of the convenience of not having to leave my home or office if it's not something which is terribly time-sensitive.  That has never kept me from using Best Buy, Target, etc. online.  For me, they are selling convenience, not necessarily beating the pants off everyone else's prices.

Its good to walk a little and get some exercise on occasion, especially if its an enjoyable walk.  Its also nice to be out and about with other humans on occasion. People are meant to both walk and be sociable its part of our nature (studies show that to be true despite some peoples claims otherwise).  Its also nice to see and feel an object in person before you purchase it (our soaps, candles, coffees and chocolates are also a delight to smell!).  We also work to create an enjoyable, and hopefully someday a magical, wonderful, environment at our store.  Neat things to see (far more enjoyable to see them and experience them in real life) that you can only find at our store and not online. Does Amazon have live music? occasionally throw parties with free wine, cheese and snacks? Puppet and magic shows? Book readings with author meet and greet? Friendly people to help you find that perfect gift? Amazon will also never have any DECOPOLIS product that we create just for our store. It also won't feature any of the one of a kind local artwork and crafts we have along with parties where you can meet the artist and talk to them about the art (along with having a free drink and snack while doing so).  Soon we will have interactive things at DECOPOLIS, museum artifacts, games you can play with friends (Tiki Toss in our Atomic Tiki Room) Bottle opener? hows this for you, Pop off your soda lid in Madame Minko's Magical Plinko and see what your fortune is!) etc. etc.  My theory is, create a great experience and then get em to spend a little money while they are there doing so. So more and more I hope to make DECOPOLIS a more enjoyable place to visit.  Mark my word, some day I will have a "store" that people will pay to get into. It won't be where I am at now, but some day, mark my word. In essence isn't that what Disney World is?  You pay to go there, pay to get inside, then pay to stay at their resorts, pay to eat their food, and you buy their stuff too!

But I guess you can sit at home and buy something online.  Woo hoo sounds like fun! Way to enjoy life!

They may not have everythigng DECOPOLIS has, but they have a lot.

http://www.decopolis.net/discovitorium/


Sparkling Mike   https://www.amazon.com/Schylling-Mens-Sparkling-Robot-Multi/dp/B000WHRYT6
Mechanical Planet Robot   https://www.amazon.com/Schylling-space-Mechanical-Planet-collectible/dp/B000PFJZXS/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1486131411&sr=1-1&keywords=mechanical+planet+robot
Cosmo (Wind up Robot)      https://www.amazon.com/Schylling-Cosmo-Tin-Robot-Figure/dp/B00BTWDB7C/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1486131571&sr=1-1&keywords=cosmo+wind+up+robot
Robot Lilliput       https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dtoys-and-games&field-keywords=robot+lilliput

DECOPOLIS isn't competing on a "cheapest product" basis. You have a angles to draw in customers and then hope they buy things from you.  That angle is to try to be interesting, engaging, and local. It works for me.

But Walmart, BestBuy, Barnes and Nobles, and Bed Bath and Beyond aren't pushing that same angle.  Walmart is sheer value, get your stuff here cheap!  Best Buy tries to be "cool" and show off lots of product as well as have knowledgeable staff, but some people do their research online and take the reviewers word for it...no need to see it.  Barnes and Nobles had an advantage when people had to browse paper books and ask "what's good," that advantage has really become harder to keep.   The stores are still a great way to go "shop,"  but for people that are looking to "buy" it is hard to keep a competitive edge with commodity like products.

As long as you are doing something different, then I think you are adding that competitive edge that makes people WANT to buy from you.

Yea, apologies, we are working on the website, looks terrible right now and that stuff is just something to "hold the space" while we work on creating the rest.   

What I am really talking about are our own line of products.

  My intent is to create a new product or line of products every quarter.   So far we have our own exclusive T-shirts, matted posters (those should be going up next week) card line, postcards, our own Coffees, teas (Just got word that our new "Tulsa Tiki Time Teas" are being made right now! Can't wait for people to see them, they are so cute! and have some great flavor blends), chocolates (DECOPOLIS Art DeCocoa), keychains, buttons, magnets, coasters, etc. and will soon be adding jewelry, keychains, books, toys, puzzles and games, etc. 

There are two great things about doing our own lines. We can sell them at prices competitive with stuff you get elsewhere, including online, and we make more from them. The profit margins on our cards and prints for instance are so much higher than purchasing similar items from a wholesale card company for instance.  Also, the items being unique to our "brand" alleviates some of the competitive factors related to amazon and big box stores. 

Time Artist...it's time.  Up at 4:20AM, treadmill for 30, 40 minutes taking care of dogs, cleaning or putting something away, and making breakfast for the family, then cleaning up after that.  Shower at 6.  Get the boy up at 6:30, out the door at 6:50.  Work...right down the road from you actually but no time to get to your store before I have to haul donkey to the boy's school to pick him up from after care.  Home at 5:15...let dogs out...feed them, start dinner while asking my son how his day was and look at the art/projects he did at school.  Maybe..MAYBE have a few minutes to play superhero with him.  Get dinner on the table (no bullshit fast food crap.  I cook real dinners)  Clean up after dinner while the boy's mom gets him showered and ready for bed, get upstairs at ~8 to read books with him.  Get back downstairs to make lunches for the family.  Fold Laundry etc...take care of dogs one last time...bed at 10-1030.  Alarm goes off at 4:20 AM...

This doesn't take into account 9 credit hours this semester I'm taking for shits and giggles.

It's time artist.  That and the general public in Oklahoma pisses me off.  Creepy-assed rednecks on powered store wheelchair/carts taking up the aisles in Target while trying to buy some damned thing.

I'll order it from my phone while I'm waiting for the chicken to brown.

Wouldn't you rather see the legislature show responsibility with using existing taxes than institute a new one?
...and it is functionally a new tax.  One we didnt vote on.

Of course we need money for education, but we know from experience that isnt the first in line when a new source of revenue opens up; if anything, it just provides another excuse to deferr some much needed soul-searching when it comes to cutting the fat.

FWIW, I feel good when I shop local, but its for things Amazon either doesnt have or are overpriced (and Amazon isnt always the low price).
But if they aint got it, and Amazon does...

Pretty simple....!!!

That is absolutely incorrect.  Every person in Oklahoma who makes an internet or telephone purchase from an out-of-state retailer that does not collect sales tax owes a use tax on the purchase.  The use tax is set as the exact same percentage as the sales tax.  That is and has been the law for a long time.  People have been committing a crime if not paying the use tax.  It is that simple.  Every time we vote to keep or increase some part of the sales tax, we are also voting on the amount of use tax to be charged. 

I’ve always been of the impression that use tax even goes so far if you make a purchase on a road trip of a durable good and you paid less in sales tax.

Example- If I buy a computer out of state and pay 7% sales tax on it, I would still owe another 1.517% in use tax to Oklahoma if I brought it home to use here.

The problem with our use tax is it is essentially unenforceable and unless someone keeps a daily or weekly record of their un-taxed purchases there’s no way to really keep up with how much should be owed.

This is why sales tax has become an out-moded method to fund government.  Some people purchase on line for the convenience of it and others do because if they are buying from sellers with no nexus in Oklahoma they automatically save 8-10% on their purchase.  If we did away with sales tax and instead funded from property and income tax you might end up lifting local economies when one of the drivers for online purchases is gone.  If the incomes of business owners rise as a result, so does the income and property tax bases.

Brick and mortar stores are at a competitive disadvantage because of sales tax.  There are two solutions:  increase enforce the sales tax on online sellers, or decrease the tax on brick and mortar retailers.  No one seems to even consider the second option, because it would have to be replaced with some revenue source and heaven forbid we discuss "new taxes."

Use taxes bother me to no end.  The market is evolving, and this use tax is simply a way to try to keep the status quo.  Quit trying to use taxes to favor brick and motar.  Some brick and  mortar will survive, even thrive possibly, if they offer a unique experience or enhanced customer support for specialty items, etc.   Others won't, but that's just the market.  If the goods to be purchased are enough of a commodity that I am comfortable buying remotely, then that is model that the market favors.  Quit trying to tax it.     

Said better than I could.  I support local by trying to buy local foods and obviously you all know I buy local brewers for my beer.  However for those things I cannot find easily at some store in town where Amazon Prime can ship it to me in 2 days I will buy there.  Even if a store says that they can order for me, it's usually a week out and I still wind up paying sales tax.  That was the whole reason Amazon did so well, by not having a nexus in the state.  Of course I'm saying stuff now that is like...duh....

Not all on-line retailers offer free shipping.  They are at a disadvantage because they charge shipping.

I've been of the impression that it is anything you buy, even a bag of apples.

I haven't looked at Turbo Tax yet but in years past Oklahoma has allowed a percentage of your taxable income as payment of use tax for un-taxed purchases.   It was fairly reasonable if you bought much of anything.

I mostly buy things on-line that I cannot find locally.  I have had some local merchants tell me to use their on-line site.  I tell them that if I have to use an on-line site, I will use one that does not have a brick and mortar site near Tulsa.  A few years ago I needed a part from the Sears parts place on 55th St, east of Mingo.  They didn't normally carry it at that location but it was a standard part. In addition to list price and sales tax they tried to add shipping from their warehouse for regular, non-expedited, service.  I went elsewhere and now refuse to buy pretty much anything that may need service or parts from Sears.

Anyone know how much sales tax is collected from non-residents of Oklahoma?

But only if the apples were brought back into the state.  If it was consumed out of state, Oklahoma has no legal authority to impose a use tax on you in that case.

Now here’s a quandary: 

Let’s say I purchased a jacket in New Mexico and paid 7.5% sales tax on it there.  I own a house there and a house here.  I pay income tax for business interests and employment in each state.  I come back and work for three weeks at my office in Tulsa and wear that jacket, forget and leave it in my closet in Tulsa for the next 6 months.  Do I owe 1.17% in use tax on it to the State of Oklahoma?

It gets a bit wonky determining authority at some point.

True.  I neglected to write that they would need to be brought back to Oklahoma.  What if you ate half of the apples in the bag?  Goes with your scenario below.

The tax collectors would probably say yes.  You used it in Oklahoma so you owe the tax.  Your dual citizenship makes that even more compelling.

I read a few years ago in either AOPA or Flying magazine that the State of Maine was collecting use tax on aircraft visiting Maine for even a short duration, say a few weeks. This applied even to vacationers that were not residents of Maine.  I don't know if they tried to do the same to automobiles. I haven't heard anything recently so maybe they saw the error of their way.  Rich people went somewhere else.

Looks like they did change it in 2011.
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/22/business/maine-does-away-with-taxes-on-aircraft-sales-parts/