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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: BKDotCom on January 04, 2017, 04:22:03 pm



Title: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on January 04, 2017, 04:22:03 pm
A few months ago I predicted some sort of mall closure announcement (or restructuring / refocus / something) after the holidays.

No announcement re the mall as a whole, but Macy's is pulling the plug (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/macy-s-at-tulsa-promenade-mall-is-closing/article_633e4cdb-92b9-50fe-9240-1397e2f336c9.html)... out by the end of the year.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on January 04, 2017, 04:28:52 pm
I vote for a greenhouse, microlofts, or an OU-Tulsa med school.

http://gizmodo.com/7-dead-shopping-malls-that-found-surprising-second-live-1634073681


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 04, 2017, 04:36:19 pm
Toys R Us in east Tulsa (by the old Eastland Mall) is closing in January, Sears in midtown is closing in April, and now Macy’s at Promenade Mall is closing by the end of the year.

Tulsa still has a K-Mart on the east side and a Sears at Woodland Hills, neither of those seem like they can last very long.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2017, 04:46:16 pm
Irony:  giving Macy's millions in tax subsidies for a couple hundred low wage jobs so they could build an online fulfillment center and close a retail store in Tulsa.

Macy's is closing 100 stores nationwide.  With Woodland Hills being <5 miles away, this sadly makes sense.  Many duplicate stores have pulled out of Promenade in the last ~5 years.  Mass retail in a brick and mortar store is becoming a harder and harder business.  Add Tulsa Hills to the shopping option and something has to give.  We didn't add a Tulsa Hill's worth of new population in the last 10 years...

- - -

I vote indoor paintball.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 04, 2017, 06:32:32 pm
Irony:  giving Macy's millions in tax subsidies for a couple hundred low wage jobs so they could build an online fulfillment center and close a retail store in Tulsa.

Macy's is closing 100 stores nationwide.  With Woodland Hills being <5 miles away, this sadly makes sense.  Many duplicate stores have pulled out of Promenade in the last ~5 years.  Mass retail in a brick and mortar store is becoming a harder and harder business.  Add Tulsa Hills to the shopping option and something has to give.  We didn't add a Tulsa Hill's worth of new population in the last 10 years...

- - -

I vote indoor paintball.

And yet, more proof that building new retail stores doesn’t mean it creates commerce.  It just pilfers customers from other existing businesses.

In reality, this is nothing new.  Aside from indoor malls generally being on the downswing, the overhaul of Southland which created Promenade is now 30+ years old and I don’t see that it’s really gotten much of a recent facelift to keep it relevant.  Any bets on how much longer JCP and Dillard’s stay open there?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: patric on January 04, 2017, 11:48:04 pm

I vote indoor paintball.


...on horseback.  Scotchguard some cavalry uniforms and outfit the mounts with WWI gasmask faceguards and your all set.

But actually, Im surprised the 21st and Yale store is the one on the chopping block given its uniqueness.

“This is the only free-standing store of its type in the nation”  says the Whirled.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-sears-had-everything-when-it-moved-to-the/article_ef525501-c34d-5966-a9d1-5c69d72c061e.html



Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 05, 2017, 12:26:24 am
And yet, more proof that building new retail stores doesn’t mean it creates commerce.  It just pilfers customers from other existing businesses.

In reality, this is nothing new.  Aside from indoor malls generally being on the downswing, the overhaul of Southland which created Promenade is now 30+ years old and I don’t see that it’s really gotten much of a recent facelift to keep it relevant.  Any bets on how much longer JCP and Dillard’s stay open there?

That kind of shocked me at first that Promenade was done 30 years ago, for some reason it didn't seem that long ago. I think JCP and Dillard's may have some more life left in them since there are enough people between 41st & Yale going towards downtown and north and east of it, and Woodland covers south Tulsa. As for them closing the 21st & Yale Sears it's probably because it's cheaper renting at Woodland than owning a freestanding store.

I remember reading an article in a trade magazine called Teleconnect back in 1994, when they were discussing the shopping revolution that was going to happen once the internet was widely available, and that it could be the end of the brick and mortar stores, and you would shop in a virtual mall. I remember chuckling about it thinking it would never happen.

The biggest impact I have seen with Macy's/KMart/JCP closing stores is the effect on the small regional malls in more rural areas where now the nearest ones are now up to a 3 hour drive away.(not everyone here is computer literate, and some can't afford it) We have a Sears here, but it is some quasi franchise arrangement and it's about the size of a CVS/Walgreen's and all they sell are tools/lawn & garden/appliances/TV's and beds.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 05, 2017, 09:10:17 am
That kind of shocked me at first that Promenade was done 30 years ago, for some reason it didn't seem that long ago. I think JCP and Dillard's may have some more life left in them since there are enough people between 41st & Yale going towards downtown and north and east of it, and Woodland covers south Tulsa. As for them closing the 21st & Yale Sears it's probably because it's cheaper renting at Woodland than owning a freestanding store.

I remember reading an article in a trade magazine called Teleconnect back in 1994, when they were discussing the shopping revolution that was going to happen once the internet was widely available, and that it could be the end of the brick and mortar stores, and you would shop in a virtual mall. I remember chuckling about it thinking it would never happen.

The biggest impact I have seen with Macy's/KMart/JCP closing stores is the effect on the small regional malls in more rural areas where now the nearest ones are now up to a 3 hour drive away.(not everyone here is computer literate, and some can't afford it) We have a Sears here, but it is some quasi franchise arrangement and it's about the size of a CVS/Walgreen's and all they sell are tools/lawn & garden/appliances/TV's and beds.
 

There’s a Sears franchise like the one you describe in Trinidad, Colorado and another in Pagosa Springs.  I believe they keep the quickest turn items on the shelf but can order in anything Sears carries which is their big advantage over the traditional Sears monoliths.  Funny you mention that about major shopping areas being three hours away.  It will be exactly like that for us when we move in a few months.  Pueblo and Albuquerque are each 3 hours from us.  Santa Fe is 2 1/2 hours and doesn’t have quite the same big box presence as larger cities.  Fortunately, MC and I aren’t terribly dependent on big box retail and if we cannot get what we need from Raton, Angel Fire, or Taos someone can order in what we need and have it in a matter of days or we can just buy it on line if it is electronics.

Sorry back on topic (Marshall’s!) I believe the renovation which created Promenade stretched from about 1985 to 1990 as I think 1990 is about the time they completed the parking garages.  I worked at the mall while attending classes at TJC during ’86 and ’87 which was the only reason I could even remember when they re-opened it.  In ’86 there weren’t many stores open yet and I remember thinking their timing was really bad as we weren’t that far out of the oil patch and S & L crash. 

It was a huge overhaul.  IIRC, Southland was more along the lines of the big box complexes being built now with seemingly unconnected stores with outward facing store entries, not stores oriented around an indoor walkway.  Southroads was more conventional with indoor entrances but it was converted around that era (maybe closer to the mid-’90’s) to the big box type model.  Rather ironic how that worked out for the two centers, eh?

There was an article not too long ago looking at the abandoned inner-spaces of the old Southroads.

Quote
...on horseback.  Scotchguard some cavalry uniforms and outfit the mounts with WWI gasmask faceguards and your all set.

But actually, Im surprised the 21st and Yale store is the one on the chopping block given its uniqueness.

“This is the only free-standing store of its type in the nation”  says the Whirled.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-sears-had-everything-when-it-moved-to-the/article_ef525501-c34d-5966-a9d1-5c69d72c061e.html

I live a few blocks from there.  Sears has been beyond dead for years in this location and I can’t believe they’ve kept it open this long.  They aren’t even busy during the holidays.  Great opportunity to snap up some bargains on Craftsman products when the start the close-out sale though!


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 05, 2017, 09:29:56 am
As part of this round of store closings Sears has sold Craftsman Tools. The hedge fund that owns Sears has "loaned" the company $500 million to stay afloat with their property holdings as collateral. Kenmore and Die Hard are for sale. So all the valuable pieces are being pealed off. I would assume once Kenmore and Die Hard and sold the rest of the stores including all K-Mart stores will close and the buildings themselves will be for sale to be paid back to the hedge fund. It's just a matter of time. Probably well before next Christmas.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 05, 2017, 10:50:12 am
As part of this round of store closings Sears has sold Craftsman Tools. The hedge fund that owns Sears has "loaned" the company $500 million to stay afloat with their property holdings as collateral. Kenmore and Die Hard are for sale. So all the valuable pieces are being pealed off. I would assume once Kenmore and Die Hard and sold the rest of the stores including all K-Mart stores will close and the buildings themselves will be for sale to be paid back to the hedge fund. It's just a matter of time. Probably well before next Christmas.

You’d mentioned K-Mart not being long for the world in east Tulsa.  It was announced on the news last night the K-Mart in Muskogee is closing.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 05, 2017, 10:52:25 am
 

There’s a Sears franchise like the one you describe in Trinidad, Colorado and another in Pagosa Springs.  I believe they keep the quickest turn items on the shelf but can order in anything Sears carries which is their big advantage over the traditional Sears monoliths.  Funny you mention that about major shopping areas being three hours away.  It will be exactly like that for us when we move in a few months.  Pueblo and Albuquerque are each 3 hours from us.  Santa Fe is 2 1/2 hours and doesn’t have quite the same big box presence as larger cities.  Fortunately, MC and I aren’t terribly dependent on big box retail and if we cannot get what we need from Raton, Angel Fire, or Taos someone can order in what we need and have it in a matter of days or we can just buy it on line if it is electronics.

Sorry back on topic (Marshall’s!) I believe the renovation which created Promenade stretched from about 1985 to 1990 as I think 1990 is about the time they completed the parking garages.  I worked at the mall while attending classes at TJC during ’86 and ’87 which was the only reason I could even remember when they re-opened it.  In ’86 there weren’t many stores open yet and I remember thinking their timing was really bad as we weren’t that far out of the oil patch and S & L crash. 

It was a huge overhaul.  IIRC, Southland was more along the lines of the big box complexes being built now with seemingly unconnected stores with outward facing store entries, not stores oriented around an indoor walkway.  Southroads was more conventional with indoor entrances but it was converted around that era (maybe closer to the mid-’90’s) to the big box type model.  Rather ironic how that worked out for the two centers, eh?

There was an article not too long ago looking at the abandoned inner-spaces of the old Southroads.

I live a few blocks from there.  Sears has been beyond dead for years in this location and I can’t believe they’ve kept it open this long.  They aren’t even busy during the holidays.  Great opportunity to snap up some bargains on Craftsman products when the start the close-out sale though!


I remember Southland and South Roads being converted (I moved away in 1998) just forgot that it had been that long. It has been interesting watching the change from indoor malls to outdoor mall/power centers like Desert Ridge in north Phoenix. I think the indoor mall to an extent is pretty much done, they will survive somewhat in areas with temperature extremes but they are dying off. There is a website "deadmalls.com" that has a long list of now gone malls.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 05, 2017, 10:57:52 am
As part of this round of store closings Sears has sold Craftsman Tools. The hedge fund that owns Sears has "loaned" the company $500 million to stay afloat with their property holdings as collateral. Kenmore and Die Hard are for sale. So all the valuable pieces are being pealed off. I would assume once Kenmore and Die Hard and sold the rest of the stores including all K-Mart stores will close and the buildings themselves will be for sale to be paid back to the hedge fund. It's just a matter of time. Probably well before next Christmas.

Craftsman Tools have been in Ace Hardware stores for a while, and one thing I forgot about the 21st and Yale Sears is that there is a Lowe's right next door and I can imagine that sucked the life out of Sears hardware, what was left, and with Autozone and O'Rielly for batteries, and Discount Tires for tires and Robertson Tire for more full service, I'm surprised the auto center lasted this long.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Hoss on January 05, 2017, 11:25:39 am
Craftsman Tools have been in Ace Hardware stores for a while, and one thing I forgot about the 21st and Yale Sears is that there is a Lowe's right next door and I can imagine that sucked the life out of Sears hardware, what was left, and with Autozone and O'Rielly for batteries, and Discount Tires for tires and Robertson Tire for more full service, I'm surprised the auto center lasted this long.

A bit of thread drift (not really since you mentioned them in your previous post) I had my first business transaction with Robertson Tire in November for a set of four tires.  Some of the nicest and friendly people you'll meet.  Great prices too.  They'll match from wherever.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 05, 2017, 11:49:30 am
Craftsman Tools have been in Ace Hardware stores for a while, and one thing I forgot about the 21st and Yale Sears is that there is a Lowe's right next door and I can imagine that sucked the life out of Sears hardware, what was left, and with Autozone and O'Rielly for batteries, and Discount Tires for tires and Robertson Tire for more full service, I'm surprised the auto center lasted this long.

The auto center isn't closing. I would expect them to be sold off as a independent chain as well.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 05, 2017, 12:12:37 pm
The auto center isn't closing. I would expect them to be sold off as a independent chain as well.

I stand corrected. Thanks.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Oil Capital on January 06, 2017, 08:29:07 am

But actually, Im surprised the 21st and Yale store is the one on the chopping block given its uniqueness.

“This is the only free-standing store of its type in the nation”  says the Whirled.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-sears-had-everything-when-it-moved-to-the/article_ef525501-c34d-5966-a9d1-5c69d72c061e.html


What is unique about the 21st & Yale Sears?  And what does that quote from the Whirled  even mean?  Free-standing Sears stores are not particularly unusual.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Hoss on January 06, 2017, 08:49:07 am
What is unique about the 21st & Yale Sears?  And what does that quote from the Whirled  even mean?  Free-standing Sears stores are not particularly unusual.

If you'd have seen the store 40 years ago you might understand.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: saintnicster on January 06, 2017, 08:55:11 am
What is unique about the 21st & Yale Sears?  And what does that quote from the Whirled  even mean?  Free-standing Sears stores are not particularly unusual.
Context is important folks...
Quote
“Sears is not in the habit of rebuilding free-standing stores. They prefer to go into the malls,” the store’s manager said in 1998. “But they stayed here because they saw that with the customer base and the community, it would be very helpful to keep a free-standing store.

“This is the only free-standing store of its type in the nation.”


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGuy on January 06, 2017, 10:20:01 am
I really think one of the better long-term options for Promenade Mall would be an expansion of the OU-Tulsa campus.  Build a skybridge over Yale to connect it to the existing SW corner campus and maybe an automatic circulator that goes back and forth between both campuses.  Perhaps a portion of the mall could be an incubator for startups coming out of the OU-Tulsa programs.  Another portion could be a clinic for the medical school. 


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 06, 2017, 11:02:17 am
I really think one of the better long-term options for Promenade Mall would be an expansion of the OU-Tulsa campus.  Build a skybridge over Yale to connect it to the existing SW corner campus and maybe an automatic circulator that goes back and forth between both campuses.  Perhaps a portion of the mall could be an incubator for startups coming out of the OU-Tulsa programs.  Another portion could be a clinic for the medical school. 

I like the way you think, a medical complex could be preferable than a shopping mall at this spot.  I could see that actually happening if they didn’t already have such a huge plot of land they can expand on as it is.

Oklahoma City benefits from a medical research park offshoot from the OU Med complex on 10th St. south of the Capitol.  Something like this could create hundreds of really good paying jobs for Tulsa.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: patric on January 06, 2017, 12:12:32 pm
I like the way you think, a medical complex could be preferable than a shopping mall at this spot.  I could see that actually happening if they didn’t already have such a huge plot of land they can expand on as it is.

Oklahoma City benefits from a medical research park offshoot from the OU Med complex on 10th St. south of the Capitol.  Something like this could create hundreds of really good paying jobs for Tulsa.

May compete with the St. John - Hillcrest medical corridor, but otherwise sounds like a neat idea.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 06, 2017, 01:30:42 pm
I've thought about the possibilities of having OU expand across Yale since the mid-2000's when the mall started going downhill.  Honestly there isn't a real need for a mall this size in between Woodland Hills and Utica Square.  If anything closing Promenade can only strengthen those two shopping centers.  Some kind of medical complex would probably make the most sense.  Or even a combined retail/medical development, there are lots of possibilities.

One successful indoor mall to outdoor shopping center case study is the Villa Italia Mall to Belmar transformation in Lakewood, CO.  They demolished the old dying mall and rebuilt it on the street grid with the big retail stores on the periphery and two "main streets" with the retail shops, a movie theatre and apartments/offices above.  Really well done it's worth seeing if you're ever in the area.  43rd is already a good connector to OU across the street, if you could punch Braden through from 43rd to 41st then you could line it with stores and have an OU medical component along Yale.  The same for 42nd from Yale to Darlington.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TeeDub on January 06, 2017, 06:53:06 pm
One successful indoor mall to outdoor shopping center case study is the Villa Italia Mall to Belmar transformation in Lakewood, CO. 


The Kensington Galleria was a pretty successful conversion of retail to office space as well.    Eastland is trying, but not there yet.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 06, 2017, 08:01:06 pm
And as previously mentioned, I believe the conversion of Southroads Mall directly to the north of the Promenade is a very good example of a successful indoor to outdoor conversion which was an adaptive re-use rather than a nuke and re-build.  It doesn’t really qualify as a “power center” per se, but it seems to serve a good purpose for midtown.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 13, 2017, 11:55:23 am
Here is another mall in Alexandria, VA that is using their anchor Macy's closing as the impetus to tear down the mall and start over as an open air shopping center.  That would be ironic if that is what eventually happens to Promenade since it started out as an open air shopping center..

http://www.chainstoreage.com/article/hughes-buys-macys-will-convert-mall-open-air-center# (http://www.chainstoreage.com/article/hughes-buys-macys-will-convert-mall-open-air-center#)

Quote
Macy’s shuttering of the location gave Hughes the opportunity to act on a rezoning of the site approved by the Alexandria City Council in 2013. In a release, the company said it intends to turn the 1965 vintage mall into a “vibrant, open-air, mixed-use community … designed to create a dynamic urban village.”


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 13, 2017, 01:06:37 pm
Here is another mall in Alexandria, VA that is using their anchor Macy's closing as the impetus to tear down the mall and start over as an open air shopping center.  That would be ironic if that is what eventually happens to Promenade since it started out as an open air shopping center..

http://www.chainstoreage.com/article/hughes-buys-macys-will-convert-mall-open-air-center# (http://www.chainstoreage.com/article/hughes-buys-macys-will-convert-mall-open-air-center#)


It would be incredibly ironic as Southroads transitioned from an indoor mall to power center after Foley's (Macy's) closed and moved across the street to Promenade


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: In_Tulsa on November 18, 2017, 08:12:30 pm
The rumor mill is spinning again. So I heard that Mathis Brothers is taking over the old Macy’s. I don’t know how accurate this information is. If it does happen I think it would be great for the mall and Mathis Brothers!!


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: realst8 on November 18, 2017, 09:57:32 pm
I believe the Mathis deal is dead. My understanding is the property fell out of contract about a week ago and CBRE is again marketing the property.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 20, 2017, 07:56:40 am
The rumor mill is spinning again. So I heard that Mathis Brothers is taking over the old Macy’s. I don’t know how accurate this information is. If it does happen I think it would be great for the mall and Mathis Brothers!!


Oh, yuck..!!   Gag me with a 10 lb turkey!!   Another Mathis place - just what Tulsa needs....NOT !!


Sounds like I may not be the fanboy most Tulsan's are...true.

Bait and switch
Misrepresent
Flat out lie




Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on November 20, 2017, 09:09:42 am

Sounds like I may not be the fanboy most Tulsan's are...true.


Who likes Mathis bros?
I assume it attracts everyone from the sticks that come into town for furniture shoppin'


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: In_Tulsa on March 10, 2018, 01:12:08 pm
Does anybody know what’s going in the old Mervyn’s? They are gutting both floors.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: realst8 on March 10, 2018, 10:02:49 pm
I believe CREOKS closed on the purchase of the building including the Sky space about a week ago. Sky has a lease and is generating income for the buyer so I believe that use will remain unchanged. I was told the balance of the vacant space would be used for CREOKS Administrative offices and various community medical programs - not sure how accurate the proposed use is but the sale information is accurate. I was also told the Macy's space is back under contract.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on March 10, 2018, 10:58:38 pm
I believe CREOKS closed on the purchase of the building including the Sky space about a week ago. Sky has a lease and is generating income for the buyer so I believe that use will remain unchanged. I was told the balance of the vacant space would be used for CREOKS Administrative offices and various community medical programs - not sure how accurate the proposed use is but the sale information is accurate. I was also told the Macy's space is back under contract.

I'm glad Sky apparently pays the rent because they don't care to pay contractors in a timely fashion, if at all.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2018, 08:58:41 am
I'm glad Sky apparently pays the rent because they don't care to pay contractors in a timely fashion, if at all.


Must be a Trump business.  Or Trump University graduate...




Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: In_Tulsa on March 11, 2018, 10:03:42 am
I was also told the Macy's space is back under contract.

Do you know who it is?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: realst8 on April 24, 2018, 06:13:49 pm
Believe it or not it appears to be an entity affiliated with Warren Ross & Elliot Nelson. They paid $1mm or about $5.00 per square foot.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: In_Tulsa on April 25, 2018, 08:23:30 pm
Believe it or not it appears to be an entity affiliated with Warren Ross & Elliot Nelson. They paid $1mm or about $5.00 per square foot.

That’s interesting! I wonder what the plans are.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: MostSeriousness on April 26, 2018, 06:47:32 am
Big Boxyard


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on April 26, 2018, 07:42:57 am
Coworking space?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 26, 2018, 01:54:50 pm
Coworking space would be nice!   


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: sgrizzle on April 27, 2018, 03:55:19 pm
That’s interesting! I wonder what the plans are.

TGI Friday's















Kidding.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: In_Tulsa on May 13, 2018, 08:02:20 pm
The sale closed. It will be interesting to see what happens!


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 16, 2019, 10:55:07 am
The movie theater no longer has movie listings and several other stores have closed.  What's going on at Promenade?

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/multiple-stores-closing-in-tulsa-promenade-mall-movie-theater-no/article_90431afb-11d6-5b17-b277-de774cbf7d82.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/multiple-stores-closing-in-tulsa-promenade-mall-movie-theater-no/article_90431afb-11d6-5b17-b277-de774cbf7d82.html)

The rumor that OU is buying it is still out there but I don't see any confirmation.  There were two statements the new OU president made at his inauguration speech that were interesting:

Quote
Additionally, Gallogly said he wants OU Medical Center to be available to everyone in the state of Oklahoma, as he said it’s Oklahoma’s largest and most comprehensive hospital.

“It would be nice for OU medicine to be the provider of choice for everyone in the state of Oklahoma,” Gallogly said.

Gallogly recognized the OU Tulsa campus in northeastern Oklahoma and added that he would like to see it grow.

1. Expansion of the OU Medical Center could mean a physical hospital in Tulsa in conjunction with the medical school/community medicine program at OU-Tulsa
2. Growth of the OU-Tulsa campus could mean a physical expansion across Yale


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Townsend on January 16, 2019, 11:25:06 am
The movie theater no longer has movie listings and several other stores have closed.  What's going on at Promenade?


(https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/life-church.jpeg?quality=85&strip=all&w=400&h=225&crop=1)


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 16, 2019, 11:58:14 am
The movie theater no longer has movie listings and several other stores have closed.  What's going on at Promenade?


This board has been talking about this for some time (Especially in this thread: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75)). Online is stil just in its infancy and only 10% of total retail in 2017.

In order to survive in retail as a big mall, you have to be the hot new thing on the block with all the trendy places or face a quick decline. Promenade had already been on the decline back in the 2000s before online retail was so huge. Now it's dated and lacking the wow/nice factor to lure in people. Woodlands is still a destination for Southys. Promenade isn't a destination and has felt on the downward spiral for some time.

I do hope OU Tulsa expands and Promenade seems like a good close spot (with AMPLE parking!), but unless they get the mall for cheap, it may not be the best setup as it would require a massive investment to retrofit into medical or education facilities. It's a tough choice when you would only typically save maybe 25% by remodeling vs building new and have a far less attractive building in this case. That is potentially cut down to maybe 15% with increased building material costs right now and the entire mall is probably far more than OU could use any time soon. So unless they are basically giving the mall away or splitting up parts, it might not make sense for them to retro fit. Best turn it into an outlet mall or maybe the worlds first Church Mall! Shop for all you creed needs in one place!

I do see the future of the mall being similar to Eastland, with bigger businesses/churches/medical moving in, but one section at a time and potentially keeping the food court viable. Medical makes the most sense though.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on January 16, 2019, 12:23:26 pm
This mall had struggled, but its ultimate demise was assured when it started losing chain stores in the early 2000s.  Unless someone like OU buys it for a major redevelopment project, it will likely take a decade to see it fully rehabbed into other purposes.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 16, 2019, 12:26:13 pm
This board has been talking about this for some time (Especially in this thread: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75)). Online is stil just in its infancy and only 10% of total retail in 2017.

In order to survive in retail as a big mall, you have to be the hot new thing on the block with all the trendy places or face a quick decline. Promenade had already been on the decline back in the 2000s before online retail was so huge. Now it's dated and lacking the wow/nice factor to lure in people. Woodlands is still a destination for Southys. Promenade isn't a destination and has felt on the downward spiral for some time.

I do hope OU Tulsa expands and Promenade seems like a good close spot (with AMPLE parking!), but unless they get the mall for cheap, it may not be the best setup as it would require a massive investment to retrofit into medical or education facilities. It's a tough choice when you would only typically save maybe 25% by remodeling vs building new and have a far less attractive building in this case. That is potentially cut down to maybe 15% with increased building material costs right now and the entire mall is probably far more than OU could use any time soon. So unless they are basically giving the mall away or splitting up parts, it might not make sense for them to retro fit. Best turn it into an outlet mall or maybe the worlds first Church Mall! Shop for all you creed needs in one place!

I do see the future of the mall being similar to Eastland, with bigger businesses/churches/medical moving in, but one section at a time and potentially keeping the food court viable. Medical makes the most sense though.

They could look at what Westminster CO is doing with their old mall.  This is what the mall used to look like 5 years ago:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7c/48/15/7c481516d689e218e639fc9293c816b6.jpg)

Then they demolished it (except for JC Penney which is still open..for now):
(https://www.cnu.org/sites/default/files/westminster-site.jpg)

And this is the redevelopment plan of which two of the mixed-use buildings are already under construction as well as a hotel and an Alamo Drafthouse:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jMf5KLspow4/maxresdefault.jpg)



Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 16, 2019, 01:18:09 pm
This board has been talking about this for some time (Especially in this thread: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21470.75)). Online is stil just in its infancy and only 10% of total retail in 2017.

In order to survive in retail as a big mall, you have to be the hot new thing on the block with all the trendy places or face a quick decline. Promenade had already been on the decline back in the 2000s before online retail was so huge. Now it's dated and lacking the wow/nice factor to lure in people. Woodlands is still a destination for Southys. Promenade isn't a destination and has felt on the downward spiral for some time.

I do hope OU Tulsa expands and Promenade seems like a good close spot (with AMPLE parking!), but unless they get the mall for cheap, it may not be the best setup as it would require a massive investment to retrofit into medical or education facilities. It's a tough choice when you would only typically save maybe 25% by remodeling vs building new and have a far less attractive building in this case. That is potentially cut down to maybe 15% with increased building material costs right now and the entire mall is probably far more than OU could use any time soon. So unless they are basically giving the mall away or splitting up parts, it might not make sense for them to retro fit. Best turn it into an outlet mall or maybe the worlds first Church Mall! Shop for all you creed needs in one place!

I do see the future of the mall being similar to Eastland, with bigger businesses/churches/medical moving in, but one section at a time and potentially keeping the food court viable. Medical makes the most sense though.

For perspective, the huge renovation which turned the old Southland into Promenade happened in 1985-86 so its current incarnation is now 33-34 years old.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 16, 2019, 01:27:59 pm
The last big renovation would have been when Foley's (Macy's) was added in 1996. That when the big parking garage in the back was added and the movie theater moved and expanded.

JC Penny probably isn't going to last real long either, their stock is down in the $1 range.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on January 16, 2019, 02:54:44 pm
That would be much better than OU-Tulsa turning it into part of its campus or a hospital.  I would love to see the Dillard’s and the parking garage on the south side survive, with some retail fronting 41st & Yale, but rest leveled to become a mix of office, apartments and townhouses.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 16, 2019, 03:17:41 pm
That would be much better than OU-Tulsa turning it into part of its campus or a hospital.  I would love to see the Dillard’s and the parking garage on the south side survive, with some retail fronting 41st & Yale, but rest leveled to become a mix of office, apartments and townhouses.

Absolutely.  Maybe it's a mix of student housing and office buildings along Yale across the street from campus that tie into the existing light/crosswalk at 43rd.  OU can then lease space as needed. 

Extend Braden Ave. north of 43rd to connect to 41st with a new light/crosswalk creating a connection to Southroads.  Line Braden with retail and restaurant space that utilizes the existing garages and connects to Dillard's as the remaining department store anchor.  Maybe integrate something unique like an Alamo Drafthouse movie theater or a hotel to create a destination.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: patric on January 16, 2019, 07:00:54 pm
That would be much better than OU-Tulsa turning it into part of its campus or a hospital.  I would love to see the Dillard’s and the parking garage on the south side survive, with some retail fronting 41st & Yale, but rest leveled to become a mix of office, apartments and townhouses.

I seem to recall the inverse; a childrens hospital campus being turned into a big shopping cluster alongside Skelly Drive.  Really rockin.
/s


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 17, 2019, 09:56:17 am
Apparently they have new tenants to replace some of the vacancies and a new operator of the theater:


Quote
New tenants headed to Promenade mall after movie theater, retailers close


The Tulsa Promenade is in the midst of a tenant transition.

The midtown mall, located near 41st Street and Yale Avenue, has several new tenants coming in to fill current and upcoming vacancies.

“We are getting new tenants in, and we are being able to stabilize the tenants who are here,” General Manager Veronica Butts said Wednesday.


The new cost for doing business in Tulsa.
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“We had great Christmas traffic, and we have Christmas vendors that were here that are going to come back full time. They are from out of state, which is good to see,” she said.

Abby’s Jewelry will be moving into a space left vacant with the recent closing of Zales Jewelry, and a candy store is going to be opening in the former location of Kay Jewelers.

Other recent additions to the mall include Brenda’s Bridal and Rental, which opened in January, and Selah Model and Co., which opened in October.

Hollywood Theaters Palace 12, which was owned by Regal Cinemas, closed Sunday.

The movie theater is set to reopen under new management within two weeks, Butts said.

Two national retailers, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russe, are planning to close soon. Butts said those spaces have been leased, and new stores should be opening in those spaces by mid-February.

She declined to name the new theater management company or the new tenants opening storefronts in the mall.

With the closing of Macy’s in 2017, Tulsa Promenade lost one of its anchor stores, leaving J.C. Penney and Dillard’s as the remaining large tenants.

The Macy’s store has been purchased by a broker, Butts said, and there is currently a contract on the space. She said she couldn’t say who the prospective tenant was.

Last year, CREOKS Behavioral Health Services moved its Tulsa clinic to the Tulsa Promenade mall, renovating 40,000 square feet of the old Mervyn’s location. Part of that space had already been transformed into Sky Fitness.

Tulsa Promenade was sold in 2013 to a New York real estate investor. In 2016, mall owners Tulsa Promenade Realty Management LLC refinanced its commercial mortgage.

Butts said there have been rumors that the mall has been sold again, but that is incorrect.

“The mall has not been sold,” Butts said.

According to a note left on the Zales storefront, customers should contact the Woodland Hills Mall location for layaways, online orders, repairs and special orders.



https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/new-tenants-headed-to-promenade-mall-after-movie-theater-retailers/article_90431afb-11d6-5b17-b277-de774cbf7d82.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/new-tenants-headed-to-promenade-mall-after-movie-theater-retailers/article_90431afb-11d6-5b17-b277-de774cbf7d82.html)


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 17, 2019, 10:07:01 am
Quote

“We are getting new tenants in, and we are being able to stabilize the tenants who are here,” General Manager Veronica Butts said Wednesday.

“We had great Christmas traffic, and we have Christmas vendors that were here that are going to come back full time. They are from out of state, which is good to see,” she said.

Something about the way the manager is doing damage control sounds a bit desperate (Maybe the "stabilize the tenants who are here" and ignoring the elephant in the room of major chains leaving at an alarming rate).

The bridal place being added last year is not in the slightest bit exciting for prospective shoppers. I'm not their target audience but losing Macys, Zales, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russ are huge losses in terms of popularity and stability. I don't know anything about Abbys but hard to believe it'll have the same draw.

I guess it's good for the area to have Promenade get through this, but seems like it might be pushing back the inevitable rather than evolving or innovating to create something unique. All in all I don't mind if the mall fails eventually though because it is owned by a bit NYC firm so good chance local companies will come out winners with some cheap real estate. However, it is in the public's interest to have some sort of thriving retail close to midtown to capture sales tax revenue that will inevitably be spent elsewhere.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on January 17, 2019, 10:31:12 am
Noticed they've got new maps on the website (http://www.tulsapromenade.com/map)
(https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/570ba9e01f76dada7d3d30db/572777aa9134bc281e42511f_TulsaPromenadeupper_Page_11.png)
(https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/570ba9e01f76dada7d3d30db/572777a8639cfa231e7a70d8_TulsaPromenadelower_Page_10.png)

Why the heck did they omit Dillard's from the map??


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 17, 2019, 10:35:22 am
Something about the way the manager is doing damage control sounds a bit desperate (Maybe the "stabilize the tenants who are here" and ignoring the elephant in the room of major chains leaving at an alarming rate).

The bridal place being added last year is not in the slightest bit exciting for prospective shoppers. I'm not their target audience but losing Macys, Zales, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russ are huge losses in terms of popularity and stability. I don't know anything about Abbys but hard to believe it'll have the same draw.

I guess it's good for the area to have Promenade get through this, but seems like it might be pushing back the inevitable rather than evolving or innovating to create something unique. All in all I don't mind if the mall fails eventually though because it is owned by a bit NYC firm so good chance local companies will come out winners with some cheap real estate. However, it is in the public's interest to have some sort of thriving retail close to midtown to capture sales tax revenue that will inevitably be spent elsewhere.

Yeah seems like they are kicking the can down the road.  They are still viable as long as Dillard's and the theater are operating but far from healthy.  I just think a big redevelopment would really give this area a big shot in the arm.  There are higher-income neighborhoods to the west and a few miles to the south that this would pull from, and potentially help stabilize or even revitalize some of the declining neighborhoods to the north and east.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 17, 2019, 11:09:24 am
Noticed they've got new maps on the website (http://www.tulsapromenade.com/map)
(https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/570ba9e01f76dada7d3d30db/572777aa9134bc281e42511f_TulsaPromenadeupper_Page_11.png)
(https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/570ba9e01f76dada7d3d30db/572777a8639cfa231e7a70d8_TulsaPromenadelower_Page_10.png)

Why the heck did they omit Dillard's from the map??

Maybe Dillards owns it's own building?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on January 17, 2019, 11:57:34 am
Maybe Dillards owns it's own building?

Yep, same reason the former Macy's building is not shown.



Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on January 17, 2019, 12:05:36 pm
Something about the way the manager is doing damage control sounds a bit desperate (Maybe the "stabilize the tenants who are here" and ignoring the elephant in the room of major chains leaving at an alarming rate).

The bridal place being added last year is not in the slightest bit exciting for prospective shoppers. I'm not their target audience but losing Macys, Zales, American Eagle Outfitters and Charlotte Russ are huge losses in terms of popularity and stability. I don't know anything about Abbys but hard to believe it'll have the same draw.

I guess it's good for the area to have Promenade get through this, but seems like it might be pushing back the inevitable rather than evolving or innovating to create something unique. All in all I don't mind if the mall fails eventually though because it is owned by a bit NYC firm so good chance local companies will come out winners with some cheap real estate. However, it is in the public's interest to have some sort of thriving retail close to midtown to capture sales tax revenue that will inevitably be spent elsewhere.

The owner paid millions for this property, it is not going to just shut it down without a buyer lined up so long as it can keep generating some cash flow.  Plus, there are probably lease clauses that tie rent rates to occupancy levels/foot traffic, etc., so getting new tenants in is important to prop up rent rates for existing tenants.

I suspect few if any of the new tenants will be national chains, but the owner is trying to get as much of the mall occupied as possible.  That is a reasonable strategy under the circumstances.  The death of a mall is usually a long slow process.



Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on January 17, 2019, 01:10:42 pm
Yep, same reason the former Macy's building is not shown.

Dillard's is part of the mall (regardless of who owns the bldg).
Dillard's is listed underneath the map "Anchor  Dillard's"
Same with Macy's & Mervyn's  (which I assume aren't shown because they're empty / not accessible from the inside)


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Tulsa Zephyr on January 17, 2019, 04:50:48 pm
If something doesn't happen soon, it'll become the largest QuikTrip in the world...


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 18, 2019, 09:15:36 am
The owner paid millions for this property, it is not going to just shut it down without a buyer lined up so long as it can keep generating some cash flow.  Plus, there are probably lease clauses that tie rent rates to occupancy levels/foot traffic, etc., so getting new tenants in is important to prop up rent rates for existing tenants.

I suspect few if any of the new tenants will be national chains, but the owner is trying to get as much of the mall occupied as possible.  That is a reasonable strategy under the circumstances.  The death of a mall is usually a long slow process.



Yes, obviously they're not going to just shut it down. No one suggested they would. But the way they're going about it shows that they want to suck every penny they can from it as a mall and kick the can down the road as long as possible, keeping a slowly declining "status quo" rather than try any sort of reinvention or innovative approach to bring in more customers.

There's a pretty good chance the market value of the mall and prospective tenants/rent has declined significantly since they bought it in 2013. If the retail collapse gets worse in future years and if Promenade remains looking somewhat bleak/dated and a recession comes, they might end up in a situation where they have to sell it for quite a bargain due to massive waves of closures. I won't feel any remorse for a big NYC firm not willing to invest in making it better.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 18, 2019, 09:19:37 am
If something doesn't happen soon, it'll become the largest QuikTrip in the world...

Like a Bucees? (https://bobcat.grahamdigital.com/image/upload/view?width=1280&height=720&method=crop&url=https://media.click2houston.com/photo/2017/04/14/Katy%20Buc-ee%27s20170414141728_9440949_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg) https://www.click2houston.com/community/new-50000-square-foot-buc-ees-location-to-open-monday-in-katy (https://www.click2houston.com/community/new-50000-square-foot-buc-ees-location-to-open-monday-in-katy)


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on January 18, 2019, 09:28:17 am
The owner paid millions for this property, it is not going to just shut it down without a buyer lined up so long as it can keep generating some cash flow.


Could be playing the Sears long con.    Go bankrupt and sell the property off cheap to the CEO.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 18, 2019, 10:12:35 am
I suspect whatever tenants are replacing stores like Charlotte Russe and American Eagle are pop-ups and not chains, though I could be wrong.  None of the chains seem to be wanting to expand in malls at the moment...or anytime in the near future.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 18, 2019, 10:27:27 am
Like a Bucees? (https://bobcat.grahamdigital.com/image/upload/view?width=1280&height=720&method=crop&url=https://media.click2houston.com/photo/2017/04/14/Katy%20Buc-ee%27s20170414141728_9440949_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg) https://www.click2houston.com/community/new-50000-square-foot-buc-ees-location-to-open-monday-in-katy (https://www.click2houston.com/community/new-50000-square-foot-buc-ees-location-to-open-monday-in-katy)

"Everything's bigger in Texas!"

Some people I know on a couple of other forums actually plan their trips so they can stop at one of their locations.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 22, 2019, 01:38:32 pm
"Everything's bigger in Texas!"

Some people I know on a couple of other forums actually plan their trips so they can stop at one of their locations.

Interesting places and perfect consumerism concept for middle America. Huge and full of quite a few good food options but not convenient in any way. The inside is about the size of a Reasors or maybe larger and a huge walk from some of the pumps to inside. It does have a good local selection of foods so easy to shop for that.

The place is like someone making a giant caricature of a gas station. Like someone drunkenly thought this up as a joke but then made it and it actually worked so they kept making them bigger to see how inconvenient they can make them and keep people coming back. It's like everything wrong and "right" about the US in one place. It's hard to celebrate such brash car-centric developments, but doesn't seem any worse than having 100 nasty crime-ridden shell gas stations in any given city. 


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on January 22, 2019, 04:45:52 pm
but doesn't seem any worse than having 100 nasty crime-ridden shell gas stations in any given city. 

In that case:

"I'll take Buc-ee's for $100 Alex!"


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on March 06, 2019, 09:56:27 am
Victoria's Secret has left the building


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on March 06, 2019, 12:05:49 pm
To add further insult, a water pipe in the old Macy's froze and busted.

The owner needs a serious rethink of what this mall is and should be going forward.  Repopulating the spaces of vacated chain stores with a few local stores with little to no following or name recognition is not going to slow the slide.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 07, 2019, 12:02:46 pm
To add further insult, a water pipe in the old Macy's froze and busted.

The owner needs a serious rethink of what this mall is and should be going forward.  Repopulating the spaces of vacated chain stores with a few local stores with little to no following or name recognition is not going to slow the slide.

To add even further insult, Charlotte Russe is shutting down all stores (Tulsa locations at Promenade & Woodland Hills):

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/charlotte-russe-to-close-all-stores-including-tulsa-locations/article_c4e141ad-947b-5194-8bf9-7b91b3dcd7e5.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/charlotte-russe-to-close-all-stores-including-tulsa-locations/article_c4e141ad-947b-5194-8bf9-7b91b3dcd7e5.html)


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: erfalf on March 07, 2019, 12:17:20 pm
"Everything's bigger in Texas!"

Some people I know on a couple of other forums actually plan their trips so they can stop at one of their locations.

I thought that picture was a photo-shopped joke at first. I actually saw the one under construction in Melissa, TX this last weekend (on HW 75), and good gracious. It's as ridiculous looking in person as it is from an aerial photo.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 07, 2019, 12:19:45 pm
To add further insult, a water pipe in the old Macy's froze and busted.

The owner needs a serious rethink of what this mall is and should be going forward.  Repopulating the spaces of vacated chain stores with a few local stores with little to no following or name recognition is not going to slow the slide.

I agree. It is interesting how we have been discussing this inevitable collapse of Promenade for years and yet they (seemingly) haven't been very proactive and there's still a massive new retail mall (reportedly) in the works in Jenks. They really need a bold new plan and leadership that will bite the bullet and realize the Promenade format of mediocre experience and dwindling customer base is not sustainable and that online will take even more of the pie in the future. Time to fully repurpose a la Eastland. The best time would've been when it was glaringly obvious to us on here, but the second best time is after years and years of massive reputation hits, closures and slow decline.

This decline is like how the guy in the Hemmingway novel went bankrupt: Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.

The retailers who have somewhere to go are going to start leaving or exploring options. Bigger chains are going to ask for discounts to not leave citing lower sales. There's still ~60 places at Promenade so still in the "gradual" phase, but the quality of the tenants is starting to read like a discount mall lineup.


Quote
5.99 or Less
228Abby's Jewelry
103American Eagle Outfitters
Animal Rides
231Artisan Life Photography
102Auntie Anne's® Hand-Rolled Soft Pretzels
101Bath & Body Works
115Blue Mist
129Buckle
124Charlotte Russe
210Chinese Gourmet Express
AnchorDillard's
Diva Style Warehouse
152El Chico
147Eye Exams by Dr. Rozell
125Finish Line
204Foot Locker
223FootAction USA
227Game Stop
111Helzberg Diamonds
121Hibbett Sports
126Hot Topic
209It's Greek to Me
205J's Hallmark
AnchorJCPenney
Anchor LLJCPenney Portrait Studio
Anchor LLJCPenney Styling Salon
K5Jazei's Cafe
Jazei's Home Decor
127Journeys
202BJourneys Kidz
150Kay Jewelers
242Kids Against Hunger
201Kids Foot Locker
117La Biotique
108La Fleur Nails and Day Spa
148LensCrafters
146Les Parfums
218Lids
Medicare Supplement Store
My Church Walk of Faith
111Nail Studio
K3Nut Hut
211Pholicious
240Quick Fit Alterations
250Romancing the Stone
Upper Level North EntranceSHOE DEPT. ENCORE
Inside JCPSephora
AnchorSky Fitness and Wellbeing
113So Relax
216Steak n' Bake
214Subway
138T-Mobile
Taco Shop
105Things Remembered
Upper Level, West EndThunderkick Fitness
K-4Treasures
143Tulsa Learning Academy
Tulsa Promenade
106Underground Station
K9VIP Perfume Bags and More
104Victoria's Secret
5538Wireless 2 Go
Lower LevelWireless Gizmos
119Zales
220rue21


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: rebound on March 07, 2019, 12:21:35 pm
I thought that picture was a photo-shopped joke at first. I actually saw the one under construction in Melissa, TX this last weekend (on HW 75), and good gracious. It's as ridiculous looking in person as it is from an aerial photo.

Ridiculous, but awesome!   I am one of those that will plan my stops to hit a Buckee's.  


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 07, 2019, 12:21:52 pm
I thought that picture was a photo-shopped joke at first. I actually saw the one under construction in Melissa, TX this last weekend (on HW 75), and good gracious. It's as ridiculous looking in person as it is from an aerial photo.

Yep! It's their motto on their licenses:

"Texas: Where things are so big, you'll swear to high heaven it's photoshopped!"


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on March 07, 2019, 10:57:07 pm
I agree. It is interesting how we have been discussing this inevitable collapse of Promenade for years and yet they (seemingly) haven't been very proactive and there's still a massive new retail mall (reportedly) in the works in Jenks. They really need a bold new plan and leadership that will bite the bullet and realize the Promenade format of mediocre experience and dwindling customer base is not sustainable and that online will take even more of the pie in the future. Time to fully repurpose a la Eastland. The best time would've been when it was glaringly obvious to us on here, but the second best time is after years and years of massive reputation hits, closures and slow decline.

This decline is like how the guy in the Hemmingway novel went bankrupt: Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.

The retailers who have somewhere to go are going to start leaving or exploring options. Bigger chains are going to ask for discounts to not leave citing lower sales. There's still ~60 places at Promenade so still in the "gradual" phase, but the quality of the tenants is starting to read like a discount mall lineup.



I could be really flippant and say they should have re-purposed to a mixed use development in 1986 instead of re-tooling an outdoor mall or what was a precursor to a "power center" and turning it into something like Woodland Hills.  By comparison, Southroads just to the north went from an indoor mall to somewhat of a prototype of the power center.  That was only 10 years or so after Woodland Hills Mall opened and the indoor mall was still a viable business model.  Turns out, the remake gamble on Southroads was the right direction over the long term.

I'm somewhat surprised Simon is moving forward in Jenks.  With the unstable terrestrial retail environment it seems like a much bigger gamble than it did five years ago.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on March 08, 2019, 08:12:46 am
I agree. It is interesting how we have been discussing this inevitable collapse of Promenade for years and yet they (seemingly) haven't been very proactive and there's still a massive new retail mall (reportedly) in the works in Jenks. They really need a bold new plan and leadership that will bite the bullet and realize the Promenade format of mediocre experience and dwindling customer base is not sustainable and that online will take even more of the pie in the future. Time to fully repurpose a la Eastland. The best time would've been when it was glaringly obvious to us on here, but the second best time is after years and years of massive reputation hits, closures and slow decline.

The difference between Promenade and Eastland is that Promenade sits on much higher valued land on the edge of midtown.  Yale is a major north-south corridor and 41st is a major east-west corridor.  You have some of the highest incomes in Tulsa just to the west and northwest, and another large pocket of higher incomes following Yale south of 61st.  Add in the decently-sized employer/student base at OU across the street and it’s a prety attractive location. 


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on March 08, 2019, 01:26:29 pm
I agree. It is interesting how we have been discussing this inevitable collapse of Promenade for years and yet they (seemingly) haven't been very proactive and there's still a massive new retail mall (reportedly) in the works in Jenks. They really need a bold new plan and leadership that will bite the bullet and realize the Promenade format of mediocre experience and dwindling customer base is not sustainable and that online will take even more of the pie in the future. Time to fully repurpose a la Eastland. The best time would've been when it was glaringly obvious to us on here, but the second best time is after years and years of massive reputation hits, closures and slow decline.

This decline is like how the guy in the Hemmingway novel went bankrupt: Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.

The retailers who have somewhere to go are going to start leaving or exploring options. Bigger chains are going to ask for discounts to not leave citing lower sales. There's still ~60 places at Promenade so still in the "gradual" phase, but the quality of the tenants is starting to read like a discount mall lineup.

Perhaps the better question is why would the owner want to commit to the huge capital expenditures necessary to convert this dying mall to some other use?  I read recently where some malls had successfully converted shuttered Sear’s stores into a number of smaller stores, but that it was a very expensive undertaking.  Any significant conversion of Promenade will be hugely expensive with no guaranty that will it ever pay off.  Why not just ride it out with whatever cash flow it can generate (or offsetting losses for tax purposes) until there is nothing left and then sell the property at a fire sale price?  When you consider that the Dillard’s building, like the Macy’s building, is not owned by the mall, it is unlikely the owner could sell the mall now for much  more than it could if it was completely empty.



Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 08, 2019, 01:59:48 pm
Perhaps the better question is why would the owner want to commit to the huge capital expenditures necessary to convert this dying mall to some other use?  I read recently where some malls had successfully converted shuttered Sear’s stores into a number of smaller stores, but that it was a very expensive undertaking.  Any significant conversion of Promenade will be hugely expensive with no guaranty that will it ever pay off.  Why not just ride it out with whatever cash flow it can generate (or offsetting losses for tax purposes) until there is nothing left and then sell the property at a fire sale price?  When you consider that the Dillard’s building, like the Macy’s building, is not owned by the mall, it is unlikely the owner could sell the mall now for much  more than it could if it was completely empty.



That sounds like exactly what they will do and are doing... riding the retail wave until the end. That'll work for a while but will be bad for the area and other shopping areas will continue to sponge away their customers. I just hope they do something a bit more proactive than that (even competing to bring in some outlet chains could be better than the status quo).

They don't have to take on the financial burden of renovating. Either sell pieces off or look to sell the entirety of it to someone who does have a vision for it. It seems they aren't committed to making it a nice mall that will survive the impending retail shift.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on March 08, 2019, 02:29:23 pm
That sounds like exactly what they will do and are doing... riding the retail wave until the end. That'll work for a while but will be bad for the area and other shopping areas will continue to sponge away their customers. I just hope they do something a bit more proactive than that (even competing to bring in some outlet chains could be better than the status quo).

They don't have to take on the financial burden of renovating. Either sell pieces off or look to sell the entirety of it to someone who does have a vision for it. It seems they aren't committed to making it a nice mall that will survive the impending retail shift.

I agree it is bad for that area and bad for Tulsa.  Of course, out-of-state real estate investment companies don't much care what we or other Tulsans want or think.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 08, 2019, 04:00:10 pm
I agree it is bad for that area and bad for Tulsa.  Of course, out-of-state real estate investment companies don't much care what we or other Tulsans want or think.

True. And even with the potentially massive loss in real estate value, they'll probably still end up far ahead in the deal.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on March 09, 2019, 12:39:45 am
That sounds like exactly what they will do and are doing... riding the retail wave until the end. That'll work for a while but will be bad for the area and other shopping areas will continue to sponge away their customers. I just hope they do something a bit more proactive than that (even competing to bring in some outlet chains could be better than the status quo).

They don't have to take on the financial burden of renovating. Either sell pieces off or look to sell the entirety of it to someone who does have a vision for it. It seems they aren't committed to making it a nice mall that will survive the impending retail shift.

I call oxymoron on that one


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on March 10, 2019, 08:23:40 am
I call oxymoron on that one


Is mother road market a nice food court?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: Conan71 on March 10, 2019, 12:43:05 pm
Is mother road market a nice food court?

Depends do they have Sbarro and It's Greek To me?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on March 22, 2019, 09:45:02 am
"Everything's bigger in Texas!"

Some people I know on a couple of other forums actually plan their trips so they can stop at one of their locations.

I read this article and it reminded me of this thread:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/buc-ees-the-path-to-world-domination/ (https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/buc-ees-the-path-to-world-domination/)

They are expanding their inconvenient store empire outside of Texas. On one hand they're providing a clean place with great food options for travelers, on the other hand it is banking on the culture of excessive consumption and sprawl (although typically built on highways in the middle of nowhere). Also, they pay and treat the employees very well.

68,000 square feet is getting close to a typical Walmart store size (101,000 ft2) and much larger than the vast majority of retail stores. Crazy that they've made this work as a successful chain. I know when I've been, it has added nearly an hour to the trip. That's a long stop, especially when splitting up 1-3 hour drives between Austin, Houston and SA!


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 06, 2019, 09:16:57 pm
I read this article and it reminded me of this thread:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/buc-ees-the-path-to-world-domination/ (https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/buc-ees-the-path-to-world-domination/)

They are expanding their inconvenient store empire outside of Texas. On one hand they're providing a clean place with great food options for travelers, on the other hand it is banking on the culture of excessive consumption and sprawl (although typically built on highways in the middle of nowhere). Also, they pay and treat the employees very well.

68,000 square feet is getting close to a typical Walmart store size (101,000 ft2) and much larger than the vast majority of retail stores. Crazy that they've made this work as a successful chain. I know when I've been, it has added nearly an hour to the trip. That's a long stop, especially when splitting up 1-3 hour drives between Austin, Houston and SA!

Yeah, I'm not their target market. I just spent a couple of weeks driving through AZ, NV, and CA and avoided the large truck stops similar to this. I usually stop at Love's, Pilot/Flying J, and occasionally Travel America. Mainly because I can get in, get gas, go to the restroom and get something to drink and get back on the road. The biggest thing that chaps my hide, and this applies to any of them, is when they are really busy, the people that pull up to the pump and then go inside to take care of business and then come back out and put gas in their vehicle. They tie up a pump for at least ten minutes without buying fuel, and then spend another five minutes actually putting fuel in.

Okay, rant off, back to the normal thread discussion.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: ELG4America on April 11, 2019, 12:43:26 pm
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/tps-seeks-to-move-tulsa-learning-academy-from-promenade-mall/article_3d145e24-a67c-5bd5-a1a2-6474bdaa965d.html#tncms-source=infinity-scroll-summary-siderail-latest (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/tps-seeks-to-move-tulsa-learning-academy-from-promenade-mall/article_3d145e24-a67c-5bd5-a1a2-6474bdaa965d.html#tncms-source=infinity-scroll-summary-siderail-latest)

There goes another tenant.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on April 11, 2019, 01:33:24 pm
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/tps-seeks-to-move-tulsa-learning-academy-from-promenade-mall/article_3d145e24-a67c-5bd5-a1a2-6474bdaa965d.html#tncms-source=infinity-scroll-summary-siderail-latest (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/tps-seeks-to-move-tulsa-learning-academy-from-promenade-mall/article_3d145e24-a67c-5bd5-a1a2-6474bdaa965d.html#tncms-source=infinity-scroll-summary-siderail-latest)

There goes another tenant.

That is doubly painful because that is the type of tenant it needs to transform itself from retail to commercial office and services tenants.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on April 11, 2019, 08:36:40 pm
That is doubly painful because that is the type of tenant it needs to transform itself from retail to commercial office and services tenants.

They need to go all in.
Right now it's just a weird dying mall with some other random stuff in there


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on April 12, 2019, 08:19:17 am
They need to go all in.
Right now it's just a weird dying mall with some other random stuff in there

True, although it is hard to blame this one on the mall.  TPS is moving this academy to a school that is being shut down.  It makes financial sense for TPS -  it can expand the program and house it in a building it already owns.  Nonetheless, this sucks for the mall.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TheArtist on July 22, 2019, 09:12:26 pm
From Tulsa World Article....  https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/promenade-mall-s-mortgage-holder-seeking-foreclosure-on-the-property/article_7a9d7f3b-cf7c-5493-b235-00be8a87a49a.html?fbclid=IwAR2gRdM-LhjfrSl9XpDhD6frGd4dcZCdDkmy5CmmS3kjK4vnoGqkBCBabPA


"The holder of Promenade Mall’s mortgage is seeking to foreclose on the loan, according to documents filed with Tulsa County District Court last month.

Ready Capital Corp., the original lender and current holder of the loan, alleges in court filings that the mall’s owner — a Delaware limited liability company — has defaulted on the loan by failing to make payments from March 2019 forward.

Ready Capital Corp. also alleges that its collateral interest in the property is diminishing as a result of the mall owner’s failure to maintain the property and a suspected failure to direct all rents to the designated “lock box.” Court filings claim the property’s value has seen a three-year plunge from $25.9 million in a 2016 appraisal to $4.5 million per a recent estimation by NAI Farbman...."


I almost wonder if there was something to gain by the Mortgage Holder by loaning the money to these people that are known bad actors and "Mall Killers" ?   Like people who can get a tax write off from devalued property? 

All anyone has to do is look the company up online to find horror story after horror story....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohan_Retail_Investment_Group?fbclid=IwAR2GVoqL7jf1C1ChZCPIBaUdobqVM9aP2qjOp_9pYH_w1K_XfsWe_FK0owU


Kohan lost the Jamestown Mall in late 2011 due to foreclosure, but retained some ownership in late 2012.[1][10] The mall had previously declared bankruptcy in August 2011.[1] After purchasing Woodville Mall in 2009, it was closed in December 2011 by court order, and demolished by Northwood, Ohio in March 2014 due to its poor material condition.[32][33] Lincoln Mall suffered from serious material condition issues during Kohan's ownership and in August 2013 went into receivership.[15][34] Matteson, Illinois took over ownership in June 2014 and it closed in January 2015 after running out of money.[35][34][36] At the malls closure, over $10 million in fines and taxes was owed to Matteson by Kohan.[34] Lincoln Mall was demolished starting in May 2017.[37] During a 2013 police drug search, serious issues were discovered in Northland Mall's former Kmart that included mold, roof damage, and other major issues. Ownership also owed $141,081.61 in taxes to Nobles County, Minnesota.[38][39] The mall had serious material condition issues in April 2014 that Worthington, Minnesota took action on.[40][41] Worthington won a court decision about the former Kmart in June 2014, and demolition began in February 2015.[42] The mall was sold to 7&41 LLC in May 2015.[43]

Due to lack of payment on a $300,000 bill, Rotterdam Square Mall lost power on February 12, 2015.[2][44] The mall was later sold to ViaPort USA for $9.25 million.[45] Since its purchase, Berkshire Mall has suffered from serious tax issues with many payments being missed. Kohan has been taken to court several times over these issues and has narrowly avoided Berkshire's seizure.[24][46] Berkshire has also suffered from a series of power outages.[8] Kohan owed $627,789 in property taxes on the Washington Square Mall in 2017, and the mall was put up for tax sale.[21] The malls outstanding taxes were paid off in October 2018 for $1.1 million.[8] VF Factory Outlet Mall closed in October 2017.[33] Indian River Mall almost lost power in December 2017 due to unpaid electric bills and bounced checks totaling $428,175. The bill was paid the day electric was to be shutoff.[47]

Mayberry Mall was almost closed on February 1, 2018 by local government officials due to roof and mold issues. It was sold to WRS Inc. Real Estate Investments in 2019.[48][49] In August 2018, Kohan sued Clay, New York for a reduction in the Great Northern Mall's taxes, while owing $1.53 million to county government.[50] Due to the roofs poor condition, Effingham City declared Village Square Mall unsafe in August 2018.[51] Due to Kohan not paying Lycoming Mall's PPL electric bill, it lost power in late August 2018.[52] In September 2018, Southbridge Mall was sued by Cerro Gordo County for $177,324 in back taxes.[26][53] Those taxes were paid off in December 2018, with three of the previous four checks sent to the county bouncing.[54] Kohan owed around $550,000 on The Orchards Mall in various taxes before its sale in late 2018.[19]

Lycoming County Water and Sewer Authority placed Lycoming Mall on the February 2019 sheriff's sale list due to unpaid bills.[55] Kohan made a partial payment to stop the auction.[8][22] Chapel Hill Mall almost had power disconnected by Ohio Edison due to unpaid bills in April 2019.[7]




So what gives?  If I were the court I would say "Heck no, you knew what you were getting into and you knew what was likely to happen to the mall, how it could damage the area it is in, the jobs of the people who worked there, etc. and you didn't care!" thats immoral. If I could I would seize the mall, sell it to a reputable company, and turn around and fine the company that made the loan on top of what they are losing in order to teach them a lesson.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on July 23, 2019, 11:23:20 am
The only surprise in any of this is that the property was appraised for $25.9 million in 2016.  That is absurd, particularly when you consider that the Dillard’s and Macy’s buildings and the southside parking garage have separate ownership.

Unfortunately, this day has been obvious in coming for years.  Prying this property out of the hands of the current owner is the only way to have any hope that this dying mall can be repurposed into a modern use.  However, even if the receiver gets appointed and the foreclosure occurs quickly, I wouldn’t get any hopes up that anything meaningful will happen in the foreseeable future.  It sounds like the capital for just the deferred maintenance will eat up all the revenues for years and a new buyer with a plan and a lot of money will have to be found.

Maybe now that the folks that transformed the old Eastland Mall have sold it, they are interested in tackling another Tulsa project….


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on July 23, 2019, 02:39:57 pm
So what gives?  If I were the court I would say "Heck no, you knew what you were getting into and you knew what was likely to happen to the mall, how it could damage the area it is in, the jobs of the people who worked there, etc. and you didn't care!" thats immoral. If I could I would seize the mall, sell it to a reputable company, and turn around and fine the company that made the loan on top of what they are losing in order to teach them a lesson.

I’m not sure I follow your point or your solution.  It appears that the owner of Promenade is a real estate bottom feeder - buying distressed or struggling properties and attempting to squeeze whatever profit is left out of them.  Ready Capital loaned them money to do so and knowingly took a risk with such an operator.  Ready will likely take a hit and not recover all it’s owed - which is its just deserts for loaning money to such a company in the first place.  Neither should get a Rotarian award for contributions to the Tulsa community, but both were doing what they do - trying to make a buck in a turbid niche real estate market.

The sooner the foreclosure process plays out, the sooner this property can be put on the market and start looking for a new owner.  Again, it’s unlikely anything will happen fast, but up to now this property has been stuck in limbo with an owner that isn’t going to invest in it to turn it around.  This is actually good news for Tulsa, even if it comes disguised as bad.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on July 23, 2019, 06:45:46 pm
I’m just hoping a local investment group can gain control that has the long-term vision of repurposing the mall into a mixed use development.  Unlike Eastland Mall this site is on two main arterial streets, within a half mile of I-44 and across the street from OU-Tulsa.  Some of the highest income neighborhoods in the city are to the northwest. 

It’s a drain on that area now but could be a catalyst to revitalizing the whole area around 41st & Yale.  Look no further than OKC to what they have planned for the 50 Penn site, mixed-use retail with office and housing.  That’s what is needed here.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on July 23, 2019, 07:23:13 pm
I’m just hoping a local investment group can gain control that has the long-term vision of repurposing the mall into a mixed use development.  Unlike Eastland Mall this site is on two main arterial streets, within a half mile of I-44 and across the street from OU-Tulsa.  Some of the highest income neighborhoods in the city are to the northwest. 

It’s a drain on that area now but could be a catalyst to revitalizing the whole area around 41st & Yale.  Look no further than OKC to what they have planned for the 50 Penn site, mixed-use retail with office and housing.  That’s what is needed here.

A major medical research facility?


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on January 17, 2020, 03:30:35 pm
It's past time to stick a fork in the Mall
https://www.businessinsider.com/jcpenney-closing-stores-list-addresses-2020-1

El Chico's closed earlier this month / now they're loosing JC-Penney


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: swake on January 17, 2020, 04:16:57 pm
It's past time to stick a fork in the Mall
https://www.businessinsider.com/jcpenney-closing-stores-list-addresses-2020-1

El Chico's closed earlier this month / now they're loosing JC-Penney

I wonder if Dillards would like to move back to Utica.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: shavethewhales on January 17, 2020, 05:05:20 pm
Every time news breaks of another shop in Promenade closing I am reminded that it is still actually open in some capacity. I really should stop in sometime for old time's sake just to see it one last time.

I feel like everyone has discussed it's demise for years now. Just turn it into offices already.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: DTowner on January 20, 2020, 11:44:38 am
The Hallmark store also closed at the first of the year.

The Dillard’s building isn’t owned by the mall (same with the former Macy’s building), which would make relocating the store difficult and expensive.  The ever declining foot traffic through the rest of the mall has to be killing Dillard’s.


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: BKDotCom on January 20, 2020, 02:15:11 pm
The ever declining foot traffic through the rest of the mall has to be killing Dillard’s.

The Dillards and mall crowds have been mutually exclusive for a while


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on January 24, 2020, 02:14:58 pm
The Dillards and mall crowds have been mutually exclusive for a while

Agree, it's almost like a stand-alone store.  I think if the rest of the mall was redeveloped there would still be a place for Dillard's and their adjacent garage along 43rd St. 



Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on February 14, 2020, 11:22:35 am
Quote
Tulsa Promenade mall losing another store this month

The Hallmark store, a longtime tenant, is scheduled to shut its doors for good at the close of business Feb. 29, a store representative said Thursday. The Hallmark news follows the recent closure of Foot Locker and the impending exit of JCPenney, which announced in January that it would close its Promenade location in the spring.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/tulsa-promenade-mall-losing-another-store-this-month/article_b8f03b7b-8821-5286-a3e8-64184a949669.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/tulsa-promenade-mall-losing-another-store-this-month/article_b8f03b7b-8821-5286-a3e8-64184a949669.html)


Title: Re: Promenade Mall
Post by: SXSW on February 15, 2020, 08:42:54 am
Reminds me of the final years of the Westminster Mall in Colorado.  It was purchased by the city and demolished to be redeveloped by individual developers as a mixed-use downtown area.  From Wikipedia:

Quote
Between 1997 and 2009, the mall would lose three of its six department stores as well as major tenant Fashion Bar, which closed in 1997.  Wards closed in 2001 with the demise of the chain, followed by Mervyn's closing in 2005. Mervyn's departed from the Colorado market in 2006.  Macy's closed in early 2009.  With the loss of these anchor stores, the mall has also become increasingly vacant, and is only half occupied as of 2009.  In June 2009, the mall's owners purchased the vacant Mervyn's as part of a redevelopment plan.

In May 2011, the City of Westminster purchased the mall for redevelopment. Plans called for the 34-year-old mall to be demolished by the end of the year with hopes that the anchor stores would remain open.  On May 13, 2011, Dillard's reported that it would close its location at the mall during its second quarter of business in 2011. Demolition of the mall began on June 23, 2011, starting off with the demolition of Macy's.

On January 20, 2012, it was announced that Sears would also be closing in June 2012 as part of a plan to close 81 stores nationwide which left JCPenney as the only remaining anchor. On January 24, 2012, it was further confirmed that the City of Westminster would purchase the 7.9 acre parcel from Sears Holding Corp. for $4.2 million.

By the spring of 2012, three anchors, Macy's, Mervyn's, and Montgomery Ward, two restaurants, Trail Dust Steakhouse and Steak & Ale, the cinema and remaining mall corridor had been demolished. The demolition of Dillard's began that spring. The demolition of Sears started in August 2012.

Plans for the former Westminster Mall location were revealed August 27, 2013. Westminster's plans for a new downtown on the site of the former Westminster Mall took another step forward during an Aug. 26 presentation that outlined a development that includes multi-story office and residential buildings, unique public spaces and vibrant shopping areas.