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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: cannon_fodder on December 15, 2016, 08:43:18 am



Title: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 15, 2016, 08:43:18 am
The new home of OKPop was announced today and I didn't see that OKPop has ever had its own thread.  Now that it looks like they have a home directly across from Canes (SW corner of Brady and Easton), plans are sure to follow.  I'm guessing some people on here will have an opinion to share in that regard... so lets start a thread!

http://www.newson6.com/story/34055255/long-awaited-okpop-museum-will-be-built-across-from-cains-ballroom

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/okpop-museum-finally-finds-home-near-historic-cain-s-ballroom/article_2ccf1060-5898-5fb9-b360-31cc427c3b8b.html

- - -
Oddly, its own website has the location wrong (still shown in the BOK lot) and the latest announcement doesn't appear on the website:
http://www.okpop.org/

And nothing on the Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/OKPOPmuseum/
- - -

No word yet on if the plan would be the same submitted to the TDA across from the ballpark (http://www.newson6.com/story/32426360/tulsa-development-authority-looks-at-okpop-museum-retail-development-for-brady-district), or closer to the renderings given for the BOK lot, or something entirely different. I trolled the website of the listed architect (http://www.okpop.org/2016/05/okpop-museum-selects-architectural-design-team/) (Overland Partners) and didn't see anything. 


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 09:01:04 am
Quote
OKPOP museum finally finds home near historic Cain's Ballroom
Museum finally finds home near historic Cain’s Ballroom in Brady District


After years of searching for a home in Tulsa for Oklahoma’s proposed pop culture museum, the facility will soon be built across the street from one of the city’s decades-old cultural icons: Cain’s Ballroom.
The new location for the Oklahoma Historical Society’s Oklahoma Museum of Pop Culture, known as the OKPOP, will be just south of Interstate 244 at the corner of West Easton Street and North Main Street, directly across from Cain’s, officials plan to announce Thursday.
The empty lot at 422 N. Main St., which comprises a fourth of the city block, has been used for years as paid concert parking for Cain’s. It will soon be the location of the proposed 40,000-square-foot, $40 million museum facility and a 100-space underground parking garage, Oklahoma Historical Society Director Bob Blackburn said.
Since 2014, three different sites within Tulsa’s downtown have been proposed as potential locations for the museum, though the plan has always been for the building to end up in Tulsa, specifically the Brady Arts District, Blackburn said.
Once completed, the museum will include interactive exhibits showcasing the creativity of Oklahomans and how that influence has spread into pop culture at-large, as well as a performance venue and recording and broadcasting studios.
The goal is to give historical context to these pieces of art and culture, which Blackburn thinks will set the museum apart.
“There’s a story behind the music, behind the literature, behind the illustration, behind the movies. That’s the story that’s going to make this a unique museum,” he said. “You can get the music and the movies and everything else online anymore, but where can you get the story behind the art to connect the dots?”
Notable Oklahomans to be featured in the museum are Woody Guthrie, Mary Kay Place, S.E. Hinton, Garth Brooks, Leon Russell and the country star who called the adjacent Cain’s Ballroom home, Bob Wills.
The museum, which is funded in part by a $25 million state bond, was initially slated for a lot near the Brady Theater in 2008. Plans then changed because of the recession, moving the museum to a parking lot near Archer Street and Boston Avenue used by Bank of Oklahoma employees.
Officials scrapped the plan after a trade-off between the lot’s owner, BOK Financial, and the Oklahoma Historical Society to build parking for BOK employees created some legal and political difficulties.
The next proposed spot was near ONEOK Field, on Elgin Avenue between Archer and M.B. Brady streets. The museum competed against a proposal for a 250,000-square-foot multi-use building in vying for the Tulsa Development Authority-owned property.
During the bidding process for the Tulsa Development Authority property, Blackburn learned the property across from Cain’s Ballroom was available.
In addition to being next to the “sacred ground” that is the ballroom, Blackburn said the property had everything he’d been looking for because of the area’s history.
The site is in Tulsa, in the historic Greenwood District, in the modern Brady Arts District, and because of that history it represented the “crossroads of creativity” concepts museum officials hoped to illustrate with exhibits in the facility.
Blackburn called the new site “perfect,” and after the nearly decade-long search, he said it’s a relief to finally have a location selected for the museum.
“Now it’s time to get to the table and roll our sleeves up,” he said.
Officials plan to break ground on the museum by the beginning of 2018 and use 2017 for planning and designing the facility. The museum should open by the end of 2019.



http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/okpop-museum-finally-finds-home-near-historic-cain-s-ballroom/article_2ccf1060-5898-5fb9-b360-31cc427c3b8b.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/okpop-museum-finally-finds-home-near-historic-cain-s-ballroom/article_2ccf1060-5898-5fb9-b360-31cc427c3b8b.html)


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 09:02:04 am
The new home of OKPop was announced today and I didn't see that OKPop has ever had its own thread.  Now that it looks like they have a home directly across from Canes (SW corner of Brady and Easton), plans are sure to follow.  I'm guessing some people on here will have an opinion to share in that regard... so lets start a thread!

http://www.newson6.com/story/34055255/long-awaited-okpop-museum-will-be-built-across-from-cains-ballroom

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/okpop-museum-finally-finds-home-near-historic-cain-s-ballroom/article_2ccf1060-5898-5fb9-b360-31cc427c3b8b.html

- - -
Oddly, its own website has the location wrong (still shown in the BOK lot) and the latest announcement doesn't appear on the website:
http://www.okpop.org/

And nothing on the Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/OKPOPmuseum/
- - -

No word yet on if the plan would be the same submitted to the TDA across from the ballpark (http://www.newson6.com/story/32426360/tulsa-development-authority-looks-at-okpop-museum-retail-development-for-brady-district), or closer to the renderings given for the BOK lot, or something entirely different. I trolled the website of the listed architect (http://www.okpop.org/2016/05/okpop-museum-selects-architectural-design-team/) (Overland Partners) and didn't see anything. 

Per the article, it will be a new 40,000 sq ft museum-only design with below ground parking garage rather than 250,000 sq ft mixed-use development proposed across from the ballpark. It will be designed in 2017.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 09:02:49 am
Quote
The empty lot at 422 N. Main St., which comprises a fourth of the city block, has been used for years as paid concert parking for Cain’s. It will soon be the location of the proposed 40,000-square-foot, $40 million museum facility and a 100-space underground parking garage

Seems like a great spot for it, across from Cain's and it will replace the parking lot with another lot so perhaps no loss of parking.

The BOK center lot would've been nice, but would be isolated from everything else right now. I didn't like using the spot across from the ballpark as that would hurt the walkability over there and it seems like a mixed-use development would fit better there (with retail/food options) to help connect Blue Dome to Brady rather than the monstrosity they had proposed for that block. Cain's is already sort of an entertainment strip and that spot should enhance the appeal of Cain's along with SoundPony for visitors. It will also have a performance venue so that should also fit with the area, adding to it becoming an area for concerts.

Quote
The next proposed spot was near ONEOK Field, on Elgin Avenue between Archer and M.B. Brady streets. The museum competed against a proposal for a 250,000-square-foot multi-use building in vying for the Tulsa Development Authority-owned property.

The new one is 40,000 foot. I did not know the previous one was a multi-use building. That might've been good for that spot then, but I'm sure the financials would be very tough to build that large of a place. Rather than something like $4-$12 million building cost, it could've been more like $25-$60 million building costs and would've left no money for all of the expensive exhibits and artifacts they'll need.

Quote
Officials plan to break ground on the museum by the beginning of 2018 and use 2017 for planning and designing the facility. The museum should open by the end of 2019.

That's a long ways away! But at least they have a site and a plan to finish it with an end in sight.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 09:14:56 am
Most comments on TW were positive, but I got a kick out of this one:
Quote
$1000 per square foot. What kind of building are these people building?

It is a $40 million museum, for everything: the parking garage, building, exhibits and collections they will have to buy. The exhibits and collectibles will be expensive (at least $15 million is for that). Although many items will be donations, in terms of a museum, $15 million isn't too much, but great for this purpose and should be a real gem for Tulsa. To be fair, the TW just said "40,000-square-foot, $40 million museum facility and a 100-space underground parking garage".


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Moderator on December 15, 2016, 09:48:16 am
Details for OKPOP have been updated on its project page (http://tulsanow.org/index.php/okpop).


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 15, 2016, 10:33:04 am
I don't mind saying that I think the OKPOP Museum is kind of a silly waste. As a friend of mine puts it: "Who would go see a bunch of tchotchkes related to anyone and everyone who was minor celebrity from a previous generation and had some connection to New Mexico?" It seems over-broad and lacking in depth. The performance space and recording studio may save it.

That said, if it must be built, I think the latest location is the best place it could possibly be. Across the street from the Cain's may help alleviate the previous concerns by giving the museum the seriousness it needs; and I think both institutions could benefit from a positive feedback loop. And of course in favor of putting just about anything on top of a parking lot on Main Street in the Brady District.

2019 does seem like the distant future. That's the time the Hansons' project (http://www.newson6.com/story/33280360/hanson-brothers-in-talks-to-build-brewery-studio-in-brady-district) is supposed to be starting - yikes. There are many days I wish things downtown would move faster. I want to be able to enjoy while I still have a chance!


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: DowntownDan on December 15, 2016, 11:08:53 am
I don't mind saying that I think the OKPOP Museum is kind of a silly waste. As a friend of mine puts it: "Who would go see a bunch of tchotchkes related to anyone and everyone who was minor celebrity from a previous generation and had some connection to New Mexico?" It seems over-broad and lacking in depth. The performance space and recording studio may save it.

That said, if it must be built, I think the latest location is the best place it could possibly be. Across the street from the Cain's may help alleviate the previous concerns by giving the museum the seriousness it needs; and I think both institutions could benefit from a positive feedback loop. And of course in favor of putting just about anything on top of a parking lot on Main Street in the Brady District.

2019 does seem like the distant future. That's the time the Hansons' project (http://www.newson6.com/story/33280360/hanson-brothers-in-talks-to-build-brewery-studio-in-brady-district) is supposed to be starting - yikes. There are many days I wish things downtown would move faster. I want to be able to enjoy while I still have a chance!

I agree that it needs to host events and have studios to succeed.  I don't see people caring enough to repeatedly pay to see exhibits about Garth Brooks and Delmar from O Brother Where Art Thou.  Being next to Cain's is perfect.  They can host events related to the various acts that perform across the street and can maybe start a full blown film festival. 


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: DTowner on December 15, 2016, 11:12:52 am
I don't mind saying that I think the OKPOP Museum is kind of a silly waste. As a friend of mine puts it: "Who would go see a bunch of tchotchkes related to anyone and everyone who was minor celebrity from a previous generation and had some connection to New Mexico?" It seems over-broad and lacking in depth. The performance space and recording studio may save it.

That said, if it must be built, I think the latest location is the best place it could possibly be. Across the street from the Cain's may help alleviate the previous concerns by giving the museum the seriousness it needs; and I think both institutions could benefit from a positive feedback loop. And of course in favor of putting just about anything on top of a parking lot on Main Street in the Brady District.

2019 does seem like the distant future. That's the time the Hansons' project (http://www.newson6.com/story/33280360/hanson-brothers-in-talks-to-build-brewery-studio-in-brady-district) is supposed to be starting - yikes. There are many days I wish things downtown would move faster. I want to be able to enjoy while I still have a chance!

Wow, I couldn’t disagree more.  Philbrook and Gilcrease are wonderful museums that stake out a particular space in the art world.  But most decent size cities have nice museums that have a notable national or regional bent.  This will be something entirely unique and showcase Oklahoma’s oversized impact and influence on popular culture.  Combined with the Woody Guthrie Center and the Dylan archives, OKPOP has the potential to create a real draw to downtown.



Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: SXSW on December 15, 2016, 11:18:07 am
With this going in it's even more critical the proposed parking garage at Main & Cameron has street level retail space or something interesting.  Isn't that going to be across the street from the future Hanson brewery?


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 15, 2016, 11:23:39 am
With this going in it's even more critical the proposed parking garage at Main & Cameron has street level retail space or something interesting.  Isn't that going to be across the street from the future Hanson brewery?

I think the Hanson project is where the LA King Corporation building is, so that would be directly across the street from the big field and diagonal to the Borden milk truck parking lot. Not sure if the Hanson project extends all the way to Cameron.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 11:29:29 am
Wow, I couldn’t disagree more.  Philbrook and Gilcrease are wonderful museums that stake out a particular space in the art world.  But most decent size cities have nice museums that have a notable national or regional bent.  This will be something entirely unique and showcase Oklahoma’s oversized impact and influence on popular culture.  Combined with the Woody Guthrie Center and the Dylan archives, OKPOP has the potential to create a real draw to downtown.


I agree with DTowner, it adds to the overall "Museum District" aspect of the Brady Arts District and builds on those other musical museums. Tulsa has had a good distinct music scene over the decades and a museum to celebrate that and other pop icons is good for Tulsa and Oklahoma. It should at least be a regional draw for Oklahomans, but mostly it is another potential tourist stop in an increasingly dense area with lots of neat things.

Memphis has a couple pop museums in their downtown which are great tourist draws and awesome museums. Memphis is on another level when it comes to musical history, but still the potential is there to build a place that celebrates and informs about Oklahoma's influence on pop culture. It likely won't be as cool as those places, but if done well should be a neat place that could inspire and that can always be added to. It will be great to recommend a day for visitors to see the Bob Dylan archives, Woody Guthrie Center, Cain ballroom plus the Okpop museum, not to mention all the hot spots to watch a show and eat nearby.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 15, 2016, 11:39:21 am
Yes in the sense that it plays a supporting role to better things, it works.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 15, 2016, 01:20:46 pm
The same negative comments could apply to Living Arts Museum ,the Woody Guthrie Center, Bob Dylan center coming, or most any museum.  Few are, in and of themselves, actual destinations.  Rather they are part of a collection of attractions which together make an area more likely to draw tourists.  No one goes to San Antonio for the Alamo, they go for Old Towne, the River Walk, the Alamo and because there is probably something going on. Same with OKC.  Same with KC.  Same with most people going to Memphis.  Other than a dwindling few who go to Memphis because they are Elvis freaks, they want to eat BBQ, walk down Beale, see where MLK was shot, maybe go to the Gibson guitar factory, and maybe catch a game while in town.

The OK POP adds one more thing to do in Tulsa.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on December 15, 2016, 02:43:50 pm
The same negative comments could apply to Living Arts Museum ,the Woody Guthrie Center, Bob Dylan center coming, or most any museum.  Few are, in and of themselves, actual destinations.  Rather they are part of a collection of attractions which together make an area more likely to draw tourists.  No one goes to San Antonio for the Alamo, they go for Old Towne, the River Walk, the Alamo and because there is probably something going on. Same with OKC.  Same with KC.  Same with most people going to Memphis.  Other than a dwindling few who go to Memphis because they are Elvis freaks, they want to eat BBQ, walk down Beale, see where MLK was shot, maybe go to the Gibson guitar factory, and maybe catch a game while in town.

The OK POP adds one more thing to do in Tulsa.

Great points! You listed pretty much all the main things that brought us to San Antonio and Memphis recently. In Memphis, I didn't even plan on the music museum but went on a whim and enjoyed it. Even though I didn't know who many of the artists were, it was still interesting.

In the Brady, they are creating a real gem. TONS of new stuff to attract all sorts of different people. Maybe it does not any home runs yet, but a lot bunts and even a few line drives (to use baseball puns as an ode to Drillers which catalyzed a lot of this  ;) ). Woody Guthrie Museum, Living Arts, okpop, minor league baseball in an awesome atmosphere? Maybe bunts or even doubles. Cain's and shows at Guthrie Green are line drives and several of the food and bars are top notch drives as well. Maybe someday it will attract something truly spectacular to really hit it out of the park, but together, all of those have the potential to grow into something spectacular that brings in visitors from all over as the premier arts and entertainment district around (especially if it merges more into Blue Dome).

The Pearl District had a really ambitious proposal for Vision 2020 with canals and focused urban development. Maybe someday, something on a similar scale could go down in Brady, transforming it into a sizeable urban pedestrian area with water features and outdoor plazas. Santa Fe Square is doing that internally for a couple blocks in Blue Dome. Maybe Brady will get its own Santa Fe sized project someday.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 15, 2016, 02:49:33 pm
Add the BOK Center to all the things you listed and we drastically increase the likelihood that someone coming to town for a show decides to stay for a long weekend.  Add it all up and we keep events like the Arabian Horse show and BMX Nationals and we start adding to the list.  Most Tulsan's don't realize how easy it is becoming to sell Tulsa.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 15, 2016, 04:11:56 pm
Add the BOK Center to all the things you listed and we drastically increase the likelihood that someone coming to town for a show decides to stay for a long weekend.  Add it all up and we keep events like the Arabian Horse show and BMX Nationals and we start adding to the list.  Most Tulsan's don't realize how easy it is becoming to sell Tulsa.


We started out 15-20 years ago with a fairly decent hot-fudge sundae of attractions.  These new things are adding the whipped cream and cherry on top!

Now if we can get more Californian's to bring the nutz...!



Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: johrasephoenix on December 15, 2016, 07:09:37 pm
That's exactly right - it's about creating an ecosystem of attractions, which together are more than the sum of their parts.  I think that programming beyond the pure museum component is absolutely key to OKPOP's success - imagine performances, a music school, fantastic acts from genres that may not sell out stadiums (Delta blues, folk, gospel, bluegrass, Americana), writing workshops, etc.  A place where up and coming talent can be nurtured and get their work out there outside of bars.

GKFF is heavily involved in OKPOP.  So far they have killed it on programming, from the Guthrie Green to the various other museums in the Brady District, and I think they fully recognize that the museum has to have a steady stream of events to succeed.  I have a lot of hope. 

PLUS we'll start to get a music district.  OKPOP, Cain's, Soundpony, Yeti, all right there and you start to get one of those destinations where you don't need to plan in advance to expect quality entertainment.  You just show up and there will be at least one good show going on. 

Anyway I'm really excited about this!



Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: swake on December 15, 2016, 08:30:55 pm
That's exactly right - it's about creating an ecosystem of attractions, which together are more than the sum of their parts.  I think that programming beyond the pure museum component is absolutely key to OKPOP's success - imagine performances, a music school, fantastic acts from genres that may not sell out stadiums (Delta blues, folk, gospel, bluegrass, Americana), writing workshops, etc.  A place where up and coming talent can be nurtured and get their work out there outside of bars.

GKFF is heavily involved in OKPOP.  So far they have killed it on programming, from the Guthrie Green to the various other museums in the Brady District, and I think they fully recognize that the museum has to have a steady stream of events to succeed.  I have a lot of hope. 

PLUS we'll start to get a music district.  OKPOP, Cain's, Soundpony, Yeti, all right there and you start to get one of those destinations where you don't need to plan in advance to expect quality entertainment.  You just show up and there will be at least one good show going on. 

Anyway I'm really excited about this!



You forgot The Brady Theater and I would say the Brady District is already there.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: carltonplace on December 20, 2016, 11:42:34 am
I think this location is better than the previous sites mainly because it has more potential to drive additional new development around it.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 23, 2017, 10:33:21 am
Quote
OKPOP museum clears hurdle to build in Tulsa with $25 million in bonds approved

State bond council OKs $25 million in financing for facility in Brady Arts District

Efforts to build a museum of popular culture in downtown Tulsa cleared another hurdle on Thursday.

The state Council of Bond Oversight approved the sale of $25 million in bonds to build the four-story facility across from Cain’s Ballroom in the Brady Arts District.

“This is the culmination of one more very significant step toward the ultimate creation of this facility,” said Mike Neal, president and CEO of the Tulsa Regional Chamber.

The Oklahoma Museum of Pop Culture, known as the OKPOP, will be just south of Interstate 244 at the corner of Main and Easton streets. The facility is expected to open in the spring of 2020, said Bob Blackburn, executive director of the Oklahoma Historical Society.

“I have high hopes this will be a very successful museum,” he said.

Construction is expected to begin in 2018 and take a year. It will take another six to eight months to move in the collections, Blackburn said.

Officials hope to privately raise another $15 million or more to support the facility, he said.

The museum will showcase actors, singers, artists, bands and writers, among others. It will highlight the “history of creativity by those who can make a living at it,” Blackburn said.

The museum will have space for interactive exhibits, educational programming, administration offices, and archival and collection storage.

The facility will be between 40,000 and 45,000 square feet and have a two-story, 100-space underground parking garage, which will generate revenue, Blackburn said.

The city of Tulsa is a partner in the parking facility and has pledged more than $2 million toward the garage, he said.

A rooftop feature is also part of the museum’s design, Blackburn said.

Mayor G.T. Bynum praised the concept of OKPOP.

“This museum is important not just because it honors our heritage, but more importantly because it will inspire the next generation of creative Oklahomans in a global economy that increasingly rewards creative thinking,” he said. “The state of Oklahoma’s commitment is significant and, in combination with both donor support and local government assistance, will help build a transformative destination for Oklahomans.”

 
Legislation authorizing the museum was passed and signed in 2015 after several failed attempts.

“We are ready to go,” Blackburn said.

Neal said the facility will attract visitors, new businesses and help create jobs.

Next week, a delegation will travel to Los Angeles and Seattle to look at similar facilities and learn more about generating revenue. The delegation will host a dinner for various Hollywood-based Oklahomans, seeking to get their input and recruit others to participate in the project, Blackburn said.

A trip to the East Coast will be made in the fall, he said.

“We are in the vision-seeking phase of it,” Blackburn said.




http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/okpop-museum-clears-hurdle-to-build-in-tulsa-with-million/article_01b1f823-3470-50ce-808c-20a358453fac.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/okpop-museum-clears-hurdle-to-build-in-tulsa-with-million/article_01b1f823-3470-50ce-808c-20a358453fac.html)


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: SXSW on July 09, 2018, 01:27:00 pm
Groundbreaking anticipated this fall with an opening in 2020.  This is the empty lot across from Cain's.  Interested to see the design which will be unveiled on July 16.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/scenelatest/okpop-to-reveal-museum-s-new-look-surprising-hours-groundbreaking/article_15cf8248-a1a4-5d88-a68d-de1feaf736be.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/scenelatest/okpop-to-reveal-museum-s-new-look-surprising-hours-groundbreaking/article_15cf8248-a1a4-5d88-a68d-de1feaf736be.html)


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: hello on July 09, 2018, 02:20:50 pm
I feel like there was a better location for that museum. Like maybe the giant parking lot on the corner of Main and Cameron and not right by the highway. Pretty soon places that made the neighborhood cool aren't going to be able to stay-like Soundpony.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: SXSW on July 09, 2018, 08:57:11 pm
I feel like there was a better location for that museum. Like maybe the giant parking lot on the corner of Main and Cameron and not right by the highway. Pretty soon places that made the neighborhood cool aren't going to be able to stay-like Soundpony.

I like that it will offer another attraction next to Cain’s.  I believe they also want to include structured parking which can also be used for shows.

I believe Main & Cameron is the next area to develop.  That will be a huge hole filled along Main.  I wish the city would abandon any plans for a parking garage there and build a larger one for the district on the BOK lot on Archer instead.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 10, 2018, 09:16:30 am
I feel like there was a better location for that museum. Like maybe the giant parking lot on the corner of Main and Cameron and not right by the highway. Pretty soon places that made the neighborhood cool aren't going to be able to stay-like Soundpony.

They tried several locations and considered quite a few others. They were originally going to put it in the BOK parking lot across from AHHA. That would've been a pretty good use of that lot, but would've made it a bit out of the way for a lot of the people that might want to visit it the most: Those going to shows in the district.

Being across from Cain's, with visibility from the highway is the ideal spot for it. People using the garage for shows will see how cool it is up close. They announced they'll be open late to take advantage of show-attendees. I'm guessing that wouldn't make as much sense at the previous location. I don't think Main and Cameron was ever a real possibility for them but that could've been neat also.


They'll reveal the official plans of the museum Monday:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/scenelatest/okpop-to-reveal-museum-s-new-look-surprising-hours-groundbreaking/article_15cf8248-a1a4-5d88-a68d-de1feaf736be.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/scenelatest/okpop-to-reveal-museum-s-new-look-surprising-hours-groundbreaking/article_15cf8248-a1a4-5d88-a68d-de1feaf736be.html)


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: SXSW on July 16, 2018, 09:39:25 am
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/17201252_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&width=800&lastEditedDate=20180716113205)


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: D-TownTulsan on July 16, 2018, 12:52:13 pm
Were there other renderings provided?

I'm starting to become more and more of a fan of this Lilly Architecture group. Cool, well thought out stuff. I'm sure this design will catch a lot of flack from Tulsans, but the city needs more unique and significant architectural points around the city. With this and the Bob Dylan Archives, we've started to lay a pretty decent foundation for that!


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: AngieB on July 16, 2018, 01:43:36 pm
<snip>I'm sure this design will catch a lot of flack from Tulsans, but the city needs more unique and significant architectural points around the city. <snip>

Why do you think that? I think it will be wholly embraced. Why wouldn't it?


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Herb Albert on July 16, 2018, 02:04:56 pm
No other renderings were shown today. Here is a link to the recording of the reveal should you want to give it a listen.

http://www.newson6.com/story/38650786/what-tulsas-ok-pop-museum-will-look-like-to-be-unveiled-today


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: D-TownTulsan on July 16, 2018, 02:12:32 pm
Why do you think that? I think it will be wholly embraced. Why wouldn't it?


Perhaps I just read too many comments in the TW, but it seems that whenever something "different" gets built ( think BOK center), it's the negative responses that stick. I believe the folks that know that it's a good thing don't feel the need to defend it. I'm sure this building will be fully embraced by the city eventually, I just have to look past the negative responses. It's part of the problem of being on the outside, down here in Dallas, looking in!


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: joiei on July 16, 2018, 08:58:53 pm
Perhaps I just read too many comments in the TW, but it seems that whenever something "different" gets built ( think BOK center), it's the negative responses that stick. I believe the folks that know that it's a good thing don't feel the need to defend it. I'm sure this building will be fully embraced by the city eventually, I just have to look past the negative responses. It's part of the problem of being on the outside, down here in Dallas, looking in!
Hey D-TT, this forum is filled with so many Negative Nancies.  The stuff they posted about the failure of the BOK is legend.  The stuff they posted about the failure of the Drillers Stadium was over the top.  Let a new restaurant open and some of them are so sure they know better than the persons who spent the money to open it.  And it seems no one does it exactly like they would do it. It is amazing that Tulsa is still a fully functioning entity because it seems to keep on keeping on in spite of their sage advice. 


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Herb Albert on July 17, 2018, 07:20:31 am
I love to read the comments! I get some pretty good laughs from them sometimes. My favorite comment from yesterday was - "Oh great, looks like we are loosing yet ANOTHER parking lot". Hahahaha! That's kind of the idea! Do you think they would build a building without taking parking into consideration? So funny. It's going to be a long while until Tulsa can get over the fact that it is actually ok to walk a block or two or three to get where you are going. Maybe you'll see something you never would have noticed along the way.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 17, 2018, 07:34:03 am
I was thinking it needed to be more radical, haters be danged.  ;D


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 17, 2018, 08:40:43 am
Hey D-TT, this forum is filled with so many Negative Nancies.  The stuff they posted about the failure of the BOK is legend.  The stuff they posted about the failure of the Drillers Stadium was over the top.  Let a new restaurant open and some of them are so sure they know better than the persons who spent the money to open it.  And it seems no one does it exactly like they would do it. It is amazing that Tulsa is still a fully functioning entity because it seems to keep on keeping on in spite of their sage advice. 

The BOK center design is pretty underwhelming and a bit of a copy of so many "trendy" arenas built around the US around that era. It was tax-payer funded so people had the right to hate the design. I'm still unimpressed by the look of it. It's great it is successful, but it and the Cimarex building are bold eye sores in an already ugly part of downtown.

Almost all of the restaurant reviews on here are positive. Even HopBunz and Maxxwell's had good ratings on here. Torero's is the worst rating I think I've seen and it didn't last long.

I don't see many hating on this OKPOP museum, especially if it looks like the rendering when completed. It is a great attractive design and looks like  a nice fit right there.

This forum is all about criticism when design doesn't meet expectations of the taxpayers, who are often footing the bill (like in this case or BOK Center!), or when it doesn't meet acceptable minimum design standards for what we want Tulsa to be (What Tulsa Now was founded on). I honestly don't see too many "Negative Nancies" on here except for the guy who is always (understandably) griping about the lighting. I see far more "attaboys" for great design like this place or Santa Fe Square renderings or NOLA's. There's a lot of great things to celebrate, but if we can't get on here to criticize and discuss, why have this board? Some of us don't want Tulsa to end up with too many Cimarex towers, generic-looking CVS's on Cherry Street or riverfront shopping centers.

Comments on News articles tend to be far more negative and unproductive/inaccurate like the Newson6 link above where they gripe about parking. I'll take constructive criticism of tulsanow.org over that any day.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 17, 2018, 08:46:34 am
Perhaps I just read too many comments in the TW, but it seems that whenever something "different" gets built ( think BOK center), it's the negative responses that stick. I believe the folks that know that it's a good thing don't feel the need to defend it. I'm sure this building will be fully embraced by the city eventually, I just have to look past the negative responses. It's part of the problem of being on the outside, down here in Dallas, looking in!

It is better to not read the news article comments. Fortunately, Tulsa World removed those and put them separate on fb. I don't know how some of those people can constantly complain about most everything, but they don't represent most people.

I don't think anyone will hate on this design. It's kind of a game-changing design, far better than the original rendering, and it will take an ugly edge of downtown and turns it into something you'd expect to be in downtown Seattle or LA. The pergola on the roof makes it look like there might be some sort of restaurant or bar/venue up there which is a really nice idea.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2018, 08:58:10 am
It is better to not read the news article comments. Fortunately, Tulsa World removed those and put them separate on fb. I don't know how some of those people can constantly complain about most everything, but they don't represent most people.

I don't think anyone will hate on this design. It's kind of a game-changing design, far better than the original rendering, and it will take an ugly edge of downtown and turns it into something you'd expect to be in downtown Seattle or LA. The pergola on the roof makes it look like there might be some sort of restaurant or bar/venue up there which is a really nice idea.


You are right on about the BOK center - it is bu$$ ugly, but has been very successful, so that brings it's own funky 'beauty' to it.  I mean, really, who wouldn't want to have a crashed spaceship in their backyard??  I want one!!  Anyone who says no is lying!!


OKPop is gonna bring a nice touch to the area.  I absolutely hate that so many buildings are using so much glass instead of true design elements, but that is the period of time we are in right now in architecture schools, and I think they did a pretty good job given the limits/constraints of melty sand!


Glass is like the commercial building equivalent of large garage door in front of a house as architectural element.  They both suck.




Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: D-TownTulsan on July 17, 2018, 09:46:19 am

You are right on about the BOK center - it is bu$$ ugly, but has been very successful, so that brings it's own funky 'beauty' to it.  I mean, really, who wouldn't want to have a crashed spaceship in their backyard??  I want one!!  Anyone who says no is lying!!


OKPop is gonna bring a nice touch to the area.  I absolutely hate that so many buildings are using so much glass instead of true design elements, but that is the period of time we are in right now in architecture schools, and I think they did a pretty good job given the limits/constraints of melty sand!


Glass is like the commercial building equivalent of large garage door in front of a house as architectural element.  They both suck.





I'm a fan of the BOK, I think because just seeing SOMETHING being built downtown, while on the bus to Booker T, was the coolest thing for me. It actually had some sort of an impact on me to want to become an architect! Not because of the design, but more for the impact it would have on, what was at the time, a pretty barren part of downtown, and at least started a conversation there.
Unfortunately the stuff being built adjacent have been a whiff design wise, but hey, it's SOMETHING. We could definitely do better, and I think fortunately folks have taken note and have pushed for more thoughtful design, though understandably it does come down to money so we have constraints. I actually think someone needs to come in and re-skin that exterior of cimarex.

I like the comment on glass here because you are right, EVERYONE in architecture school felt the need to make everything glass! I do appreciate transparency, but staying true to materials can be just as successful, as well as having a good mix of them. Thankfully this OKPOP museum looks to be doing just that!




Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2018, 11:24:32 am

I'm a fan of the BOK, I think because just seeing SOMETHING being built downtown, while on the bus to Booker T, was the coolest thing for me. It actually had some sort of an impact on me to want to become an architect! Not because of the design, but more for the impact it would have on, what was at the time, a pretty barren part of downtown, and at least started a conversation there.
Unfortunately the stuff being built adjacent have been a whiff design wise, but hey, it's SOMETHING. We could definitely do better, and I think fortunately folks have taken note and have pushed for more thoughtful design, though understandably it does come down to money so we have constraints. I actually think someone needs to come in and re-skin that exterior of cimarex.

I like the comment on glass here because you are right, EVERYONE in architecture school felt the need to make everything glass! I do appreciate transparency, but staying true to materials can be just as successful, as well as having a good mix of them. Thankfully this OKPOP museum looks to be doing just that!





You are an architect?   But in Texas??   Oh, wait... Baja Oklahoma!   There...I got it right....


I felt the BOK center should not have been built until we were willing to keep up maintenance on the original Civic Center - it languished for decades, then we are gonna spend a b$ttload of money on something else...  Well, now we have both - finally did do some remodeling to Civic Center.  And the Crashship kinda grows on ya after a while...like Stachybotrys or a small moss on the north side of an oak tree.  Anyway, I still think it looks like a crashed spaceship, but it is developing its own 'niche' in the downtown.  And while it can never be said to be 'attractive', it has established its place and looks good there - it 'fits'.   It is an attraction of it's own, bringing a touch of modern to the whole Route 66 mystique - bridging the old to the new...  Route 66 is having a hey-day now and it needs new to complement the old.  And a little quirky is a good thing.   Especially since so much of the old is gone...


OKPop does have more real materials than the full glass carp we see so often.  They tried, but just couldn't quite completely overcome their training - but definitely a very good step in the right direction!!  And there may be hope someday for a LEED building to have greater than R-4 !!   Fingers crossed!!  Won't go so far as to say a building that actually works, since ASHRAE and LEED have made no visible move toward fixing the whole outside air coming inside thing...


Cimarex - is that the two tone brick thing with the Ross Group sign on front on Google Earth??   If so, yeah, that could use some help - the glass bricks above the door are it's only salvation that keeps it from being something that should be torn down....


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: patric on July 17, 2018, 11:43:37 am

This forum is all about criticism when design doesn't meet expectations of the taxpayers, who are often footing the bill (like in this case or BOK Center!), or when it doesn't meet acceptable minimum design standards for what we want Tulsa to be (What Tulsa Now was founded on). I honestly don't see too many "Negative Nancies" on here except for the guy who is always (understandably) griping about the lighting. I see far more "attaboys" for great design like this place or Santa Fe Square renderings or NOLA's. There's a lot of great things to celebrate, but if we can't get on here to criticize and discuss, why have this board? Some of us don't want Tulsa to end up with too many Cimarex towers, generic-looking CVS's on Cherry Street or riverfront shopping centers.

Ahem (cough, cough) constructive criticism.  To their credit, the city has made a lot of progress in the last few years; It just took a while to see that better lighting choices were not necessarily coming from the people selling the electricity.
Also, im very cool with the revival of neon.  No one has really gone overboard with it so thats very encouraging.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: erfalf on July 17, 2018, 12:08:00 pm
Is it just the perspective, or is this building sticking out further into the right of way?

Not a complaint so much as an observation.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: erfalf on July 17, 2018, 12:09:01 pm

You are right on about the BOK center - it is bu$$ ugly, but has been very successful, so that brings it's own funky 'beauty' to it.  I mean, really, who wouldn't want to have a crashed spaceship in their backyard??  I want one!!  Anyone who says no is lying!!


OKPop is gonna bring a nice touch to the area.  I absolutely hate that so many buildings are using so much glass instead of true design elements, but that is the period of time we are in right now in architecture schools, and I think they did a pretty good job given the limits/constraints of melty sand!


Glass is like the commercial building equivalent of large garage door in front of a house as architectural element.  They both suck.




I mean, what else are we going to build the tornado museum next to. Or whatever it was going to be called.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: D-TownTulsan on July 17, 2018, 12:12:38 pm

You are an architect?   But in Texas??   Oh, wait... Baja Oklahoma!   There...I got it right....


Yep! Originally from Dallas, grew up in Tulsa, went to the University of Arkansas for the architecture program, then SOMEHOW got pulled out to San Francisco for work. Realized I was not a good Californian and transferred to our Dallas office (closest to home), so pretty much come full circle. I've been following Tulsanow since a freshman in highschool in all the cities I've lived in to keep up with the development happening there. I am unapologetically proud Tulsan and love seeing how far it really has come. We are actually trying to tap into the Oklahoma market (although I am trying to contain my bias to gun for the Tulsa metro). I come up about twice a month and it just amazes me, how much has actually happened development wise. This museum is just going to add fuel to the fire and keep the train rollin'!


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: carltonplace on July 17, 2018, 01:06:42 pm
I'm a fan of the OK POP design, it's even cooler knowing that it will have Bob Will's bus embedded in the façade.
Also I have always loved the BOK center's design. I think Peli did a good job with it.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: SXSW on July 17, 2018, 01:08:17 pm
Yep! Originally from Dallas, grew up in Tulsa, went to the University of Arkansas for the architecture program, then SOMEHOW got pulled out to San Francisco for work. Realized I was not a good Californian and transferred to our Dallas office (closest to home), so pretty much come full circle. I've been following Tulsanow since a freshman in highschool in all the cities I've lived in to keep up with the development happening there. I am unapologetically proud Tulsan and love seeing how far it really has come. We are actually trying to tap into the Oklahoma market (although I am trying to contain my bias to gun for the Tulsa metro). I come up about twice a month and it just amazes me, how much has actually happened development wise. This museum is just going to add fuel to the fire and keep the train rollin'!

The Brady Arts District has definitely changed the most, with plenty still to come.  It always had some good bones but ONEOK Field and then Guthrie Green really led the way in transforming the area.  Blue Dome is still plagued by parking lot-itis but has some projects on the boards that will change that in the next 1-3 years.  Once those areas are built out or close to it I'm sure the attention will shift to the "Arena District" where the city is actively planning out its next steps for development and south downtown which is pretty much a blank slate but surrounded by some really cool buildings.  Just south of downtown Riverview IMO is the next great urban neighborhood in Tulsa. 


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2018, 01:50:07 pm
I'm a fan of the OK POP design, it's even cooler knowing that it will have Bob Will's bus embedded in the façade.
Also I have always loved the BOK center's design. I think Peli did a good job with it.


I really like what they did with 36 Degree North.  just a shame they didn't leave that elevator functional !!   That would have been the coolest thing ever...

I would like to get an office in there...



Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TheArtist on July 17, 2018, 08:17:32 pm
I like the design of this building.  I like how it will lighten up the end of the street and pull you that direction in the evenings.  The gold will add some color and interest as well. Like how the wood? element will add some warmth, and how that and the gold jut out over the sidewalk for a little shad and protection from rain (I believe a gift shop component will be accessible under the gold part).  And yes, the pergola is part of a deck area that can add a little more feeling of life and festivity (and connectivity) to the street especially when they have events there in the evening along with those at the Cains.

There was of course a lot of talk at the reveal about musicians and that art form, I am really interested in hearing more about movies and visual arts like cartoons (Dick Tracey, Alley Oop, Willie & Joe, and the "Dave" comic strip were/are made by Oklahomans, today the Alley Oop comic strip is made by a couple here in Tulsa).


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 18, 2018, 09:37:21 am
Ahem (cough, cough) constructive criticism.  To their credit, the city has made a lot of progress in the last few years; It just took a while to see that better lighting choices were not necessarily coming from the people selling the electricity.
Also, im very cool with the revival of neon.  No one has really gone overboard with it so thats very encouraging.

Haha.. true it was constructive. I learned quite a lot from your posts like to never buy acorn lights even though I think they look nice visually during the day and about how much needless light pollution we have. Seeing your posts about proper lighting, which is far cheaper long-term, definitely opened my eyes to how wasteful the city is by pinching pennies up front (and even developers of projects downtown). 

As far as I can tell the newer blue light posts on the I-244 bridge over the river to west Tulsa from downtown look nice and so do the Blue Dome/Arts District lights. They look like far better lighting options than what we have had in the past with the standard blue halogen or orange blur machines. 

Your criticisms were on point. I was mostly saying this board in general doesn't seem very negative in general, more just apt criticism where it is due (Like the first-draft of CVS at 15th and Lewis or Turkey Mountain Mall fiasco).


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: patric on July 18, 2018, 11:18:22 am
Haha.. true it was constructive. I learned quite a lot from your posts like to never buy acorn lights even though I think they look nice visually during the day and about how much needless light pollution we have. Seeing your posts about proper lighting, which is far cheaper long-term, definitely opened my eyes to how wasteful the city is by pinching pennies up front (and even developers of projects downtown). 

As far as I can tell the newer blue light posts on the I-244 bridge over the river to west Tulsa from downtown look nice and so do the Blue Dome/Arts District lights. They look like far better lighting options than what we have had in the past with the standard blue halogen or orange blur machines. 

Your criticisms were on point. I was mostly saying this board in general doesn't seem very negative in general, more just apt criticism where it is due (Like the first-draft of CVS at 15th and Lewis or Turkey Mountain Mall fiasco).

But you can never say never.  Acorns can be made to be good lights as long as we understand they are decorative fixtures and not actual streetlights (the trick is to reduce intensity to about 1000 Lumens and use real shielded fixtures to light the streets).  Treat them like lighted signs, in a way.
...and as much as we dislike the orange sodium lights, the amber color turned out to be much more eye-friendly than the welding-torch blue of early LEDs... but we have another thread for that.  8)



Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: D-TownTulsan on July 18, 2018, 11:57:59 am
http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/grit-and-glitz-tulsa-gets-its-first-look-okpop

Elevations are interesting, pretty cool actually. Curious to what the west facade looking from Boulder is going to look like. I haven't watched the release video yet, but does the site occupy the entire northern part of that block between Boulder and Main? or just the lot that looks "newer"? If it's the newer part of that plot, because the building indicates it only extends to about the back side of the inner circle, then I am curious if there are future plans for "behind" the building.


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: BKDotCom on July 18, 2018, 01:53:25 pm
I assume that's not the final sign design?


Title: Re: OKPOP Museum new home
Post by: Townsend on July 19, 2018, 10:32:36 am
(https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/media:073ddf616b6140eb2b6737ff51f35d4f/800.jpeg)

What I'm really going to like is all the people crowding the sidewalks but that there are still all those open parking spaces. 

There must be an amazing transportation plan coming soon.