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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: swake on December 07, 2016, 01:25:54 pm



Title: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on December 07, 2016, 01:25:54 pm
That is all folks....


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on December 07, 2016, 01:28:40 pm
And here is more:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa-trump.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa-trump.html?_r=0)

The Earth is going to die


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 07, 2016, 01:49:36 pm
What could possibly go wrong?

(http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/MAD-Magazine-Alfred-E-Neuman-Norman-Mingo.jpg)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 07, 2016, 02:11:38 pm
Lets see if I have this right...

- Head of the EPA thinks the EPA has no place in government and seems to have covered up the link of the energy industry to earthquakes
- Head of education thinks public education is a hindrance to society when public money could go to religious schools (but hey, she also inherited tons of money and gave a lot o the Donald, right?).
- The Defense Secretary is a retired general nicknamed "mad dog" who was discharged by the DOD (guy could be a great general, but civilian control of the DOD is kind of important).
- DHS secretary is another retired general, who used to run Guantanamo Bay
- National security adviser is a retired general known for conspiracy theories, his subordinates called "Flynn facts," before he was discharged fro the DOD. Tried to get his son security clearance before he seems to have unapologetically inspired an attack on a pizza parlor over a conspiracy theory. Criticized for anti-Muslim rhetoric.
- The CIA director thinks we need a database connecting all information on all citizens and seems to think that the 4th Amendment is a hindrance to democracy. Criticized for anti-Muslim rhetoric.
- His HUD director has acknowledged having no experience in government, running a huge organization, or anything that HUD actually does ($60bil agency with ~10k employees!).
- The attorney general was OK with the KKK, until he learned they smoked pot. Because racism is cool and he has a zero rating with Human Rights watch, but no good people smoke pot. Wants to double down on the failed war on drugs, mandatory minimums, etc.
- And his White House adviser is famous for running a bombastic website (recall all the concern with fake news recently?) that he brags is the voice of the alt-right (code for white nationalists).

Add to that list the fact that a good percentage (all?) of his picks are loyalists, long time political insiders (drain the swamp!), and/or Wall Street "wolves." Fill up that swamp!

I heard Hoffa for Labor Secretary.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Ibanez on December 07, 2016, 02:20:54 pm
At least he's out of Oklahoma?

Trying to find a silver lining here......


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 07, 2016, 02:28:18 pm
At least he's out of Oklahoma?

Trying to find a silver lining here......

If he could just make Crazy Mary and Mike Ritze go away now.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on December 07, 2016, 04:54:37 pm
If he could just make Crazy Mary and Mike Ritze go away now.

Im predicting an earthquake or twenty, and having to get used to the taste of Arkansas chicken poop in the water.
Think he will abandon suing Colorado for Being Another State or just pass the baton?


What if the President-elect nominates someone whose career has been dedicated to undermining the agency he has been chosen to lead, and opposing the laws he would be asked to enforce?

 Effective and efficient environmental rules, however, have not been Pruitt’s focus. Instead, he has made attacking environmental protection the cornerstone of his political career. Since becoming Oklahoma’s attorney general five years ago, Pruitt has tried to stop national efforts to reduce soot and smog pollution that crosses interstate lines. He has sued EPA to stop limits on emissions of toxic mercury, arsenic, acid gases and other toxic pollutants from power plants. He has sought to block efforts to improve air quality in national parks and wilderness areas. Each time, he has failed, with courts dismissing his arguments and confirming EPA’s legal and scientific views.

Pruitt characterizes these legal challenges as a righteous assault on overweening federal power. But their real impact would have been simply to allow the powerful to pollute without legal consequence — while doing real harm to American families. The common-sense efforts he sought block are cutting pollution, saving lives, preventing dangerous brain-development issues in children, reducing asthma attacks and increasing worker productivity.

Pruitt also doubts the established science of climate change. He has questioned “the degree and extent of global warming and its connection to the actions of mankind.” That would make him perhaps the only national environmental chief in the world to hold that view. It is a position at odds with overwhelming scientific consensus, majority American opinion and the views of most leading corporations.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/scott-pruitt-threat-article-1.2902332




Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 07, 2016, 06:21:20 pm
Im predicting an earthquake or twenty, and having to get used to the taste of Arkansas chicken poop in the water.
Think he will abandon suing Colorado for Being Another State or just pass the baton?


What if the President-elect nominates someone whose career has been dedicated to undermining the agency he has been chosen to lead, and opposing the laws he would be asked to enforce?

 Effective and efficient environmental rules, however, have not been Pruitt’s focus. Instead, he has made attacking environmental protection the cornerstone of his political career. Since becoming Oklahoma’s attorney general five years ago, Pruitt has tried to stop national efforts to reduce soot and smog pollution that crosses interstate lines. He has sued EPA to stop limits on emissions of toxic mercury, arsenic, acid gases and other toxic pollutants from power plants. He has sought to block efforts to improve air quality in national parks and wilderness areas. Each time, he has failed, with courts dismissing his arguments and confirming EPA’s legal and scientific views.

Pruitt characterizes these legal challenges as a righteous assault on overweening federal power. But their real impact would have been simply to allow the powerful to pollute without legal consequence — while doing real harm to American families. The common-sense efforts he sought block are cutting pollution, saving lives, preventing dangerous brain-development issues in children, reducing asthma attacks and increasing worker productivity.

Pruitt also doubts the established science of climate change. He has questioned “the degree and extent of global warming and its connection to the actions of mankind.” That would make him perhaps the only national environmental chief in the world to hold that view. It is a position at odds with overwhelming scientific consensus, majority American opinion and the views of most leading corporations.


http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/scott-pruitt-threat-article-1.2902332




I believe he was also instrumental in crafting the language for sh1tburger SQ-777.  Based on his record, I’m pretty certain he was all for that measure.

I’m still not entirely taken in by man-made global warming climate change climate phenomena.  Mostly because that has become an industry unto itself and it’s been over-politicized.  I don’t see the harm though in reducing emissions and being better stewards of the earth wherever practical and/or critical to do so.  

Appointing someone with common sense to run the EPA would be a great idea.  Appointing someone who is a flat-earther on anything environmental is very much a bad idea just as it would be a bad idea to appoint someone who only has draconian notions of regulation.  We got the flat-earther.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 07, 2016, 08:35:22 pm
Scott Pruitt to head EPA is like asking a dingo to watch your baby.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 07, 2016, 08:42:50 pm
All the people who voted for Trump are probably gonna be surprised that the won't get what they wanted or thought they were gonna get.   But they WILL get what they deserve.   Sadly, the rest of us will also be afflicted....


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on December 07, 2016, 08:46:05 pm
Scott Pruitt to head EPA is like asking a dingo to watch your baby.



Great John Oliver reference.  He said that about the incoming FCC commissioner in 2014.

https://youtu.be/fpbOEoRrHyU?t=6m41s

The link takes you to the spot in the piece where the reference is made, but the whole segment is funny.  And some of it is NSFW.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on December 07, 2016, 08:49:15 pm
All the people who voted for Trump are probably gonna be surprised that the won't get what they wanted or thought they were gonna get.   But they WILL get what they deserve.   Sadly, the rest of us will also be afflicted....


Here are some of those 'surprised people'.  LOL.

https://trumpgrets.tumblr.com/


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 07, 2016, 08:52:55 pm
Here are some of those 'surprised people'.  LOL.

https://trumpgrets.tumblr.com/


Just the beginning.  When blue collar folk start to figure out what he is gonna do to them....


Mark Levin - LOL !!   Love it.  Right up there with Tomi Lahren for Biggest Loser.



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 08, 2016, 09:02:38 am
This is going to come as a huge shocker, but THEY DONT CARE.  Trump is their team, that's it, nothing more.  Most of them don't care about his policies or what they mean.  Facts don't matter.  Hypocrisy doesn't matter.  That they know he said X to them and went down the street and said Y, doesn't matter.  If you're an OU supporter, Mixon just defended himself.  If you waive an orange flag on gameday, Mixon is a monster who shouldn't be allowed to play.  Go team!

So many won't even realize that he has gone from "drain the swamp" to filing DC up with Gold-Man-Sacks execs, political elites, and generals who were forced out after decades in Washington.  They have no clue what  Secretary is or does. They don't have any notion of what is "normal" for a cabinet post or that these people are usually imminently qualified, not patronage positions (that's why we have a ambassador to New Zealand, right?).

So you can grab a Trumpster by the toe and point out that he is stuffing the swamp to the brim. That he wants to trounce States under a stronger Federal government (already talking about removing states ability to regulate conceal carry, rolling back legalized marijuana, etc.). That he has already rewarded companies with socialists tax breaks while making fun of the union representing the workers. or that nearly every economist (as well as the GSA) indicates his economic policy proposed is a net loss for most Americans, but makes the top 5-10% boatloads of money.

Walk up to a Trumpster and show them these facts, it won't matter at all.  Team Trump 110% baby!

Like the caller to KRMG said on the radio this morning, "Scott Pruitt will do a much better job running the EPA than Al Gore did."  Reality doesn't matter...


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: AquaMan on December 08, 2016, 09:33:56 am
We are among the leader states in exporting Idiocracy.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Tulsa Zephyr on December 08, 2016, 11:12:36 am
Just wait until he nominates Sally Kern to the Supreme Court   :o


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on December 08, 2016, 11:16:52 am
All the people who voted for Trump are probably gonna be surprised that the won't get what they wanted or thought they were gonna get.   But they WILL get what they deserve.   Sadly, the rest of us will also be afflicted....



If we all go down together, Trump can take credit for unifying the country.

Meanwhile, Pruitt's corruption is astounding:
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/us/politics/energy-firms-in-secretive-alliance-with-attorneys-general.html

Oklahoma’s Attorney General Misled Supreme Court About Letter On Execution Drug Availability
https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrismcdaniel/oklahomas-attorney-general-misled-supreme-court-about-letter






Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: BKDotCom on December 08, 2016, 01:56:16 pm
Quote
Uncertain about climate change because it has become over-politicized

Being over-politicized doesn't change any of the facts or data.
The ones "politicizing" it are the likes of Scott Pruitt

Trump has said he wants to throw out all of NASAs climate-change research because it's too "politicized".
As opposed to wanting to throw it out because of bad data, methods, conclusions, etc.
Making something political and then dismissing it because it's been politicized... is...  trump logic.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on December 08, 2016, 02:35:34 pm
Being over-politicized doesn't change any of the facts or data.
The ones "politicizing" it are the likes of Scott Pruitt

Trump has said he wants to throw out all of NASAs climate-change research because it's too "politicized".
As opposed to wanting to throw it out because of bad data, methods, conclusions, etc.
Making something political and then dismissing it because it's been politicized... is...  trump logic.

Trump Logic, my new favorite oxymoron.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Breadburner on December 08, 2016, 06:18:48 pm
T.A.R.D in full effect.....Heh....


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Ibanez on December 08, 2016, 07:11:01 pm
At this point I'm expecting Joseph Hazelwood to be named Secretary of the Navy.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Ed W on December 08, 2016, 07:35:23 pm
He's holding off on the big announcement of Sarah Palin as abassador...wait for it...to Russia.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 08, 2016, 08:02:16 pm
He's holding off on the big announcement of Sarah Palin as abassador...wait for it...to Russia.

Hey come on now, she could see Russia from her front porch, ya know.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 09, 2016, 08:20:19 am
I wonder what all the blue collar union guys in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan think about his choice for labor secretary - Andy Puzder.  He is best known for running the parent company of Carls Junior/Hardees. In general, he opposes anything that seems to be good for workers (higher minimum wage, sick leave, lunch breaks, overtime rules, etc.). His theory is that the only way to save American jobs is to make sure they remain cheap labor or else they will all be replaced.  Ergo, the problem with the American economy is that workers make too much money. That all makes sense, his profits are dependent on cheap labor.

What doesn't make sense is that Trump says the guy has an extensive record fighting for workers... but other than assuring labor remains cheap, no one seems to know exactly what that means.  But, in his defense, he did give lots of money to Donald Trump/his super PACs. Here is what labor has to say about the guy:  "Puzder as labor secretary is like putting Bernie Madoff in charge of the Treasury.”  Basically, in the battle between labor and management, Trump has sided with management, but I assume his "populist" supporters won't notice.

Fun fact:  Trump thinks the BLS (the official staistics on employment) are a "hoax" and the "real" unemployment rate is 42% (of course there were no facts to back this up, because it isn't real).  His new pick will be in charge of the BLS too, so I really hope we "fix" those statistics.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/economy/andrew-puzder-trump-labor-secretary/
https://mic.com/articles/161681/andrew-puzder-net-worth-here-s-what-we-know-about-the-millionaire-ceo-of-cke-restaurants#.XahCzuDqx
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/08/trump-expected-to-name-fast-food-ceo-andy-puzder-as-pick-for-labor-secretary-source.html



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Ibanez on December 09, 2016, 09:06:56 am
I brought this up with a couple of Trumpsters that I know. One drives for a local company. His response was "I don't know anything about him, but if he has run a business then he knows the problems workers face." Oooooook. Never could get him to understand that running a business does not equal sympathizing with workers and in many cases means quite the opposite.

The other guy, who owns his own business and has 10 or so employees didn't even know there was such a thing as Secretary of Labor.

(http://i.imgur.com/czhHppj.gif)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: TheArtist on December 09, 2016, 10:50:56 pm
Read an article that noticed how Trumps people were wanting info from some current government agencies like the EPA and were asking questions about the employees that seemed rather disturbing like "What kind of organizations or groups employees belonged to outside of work?" "What kinds of papers, articles, research, etc. had any of them done or had published or peer reviewed." etc.  Basically the context seemed to imply "If you believe X "In climate change for instance" and we find proof of that, you may be out of a job, we may defund that job and or replace you with someone who believes as we do. One was part of an agency that was supposed to non-biased and not political but to simply supply research information upon which to  to inform the public and businesses.  May be that the information we get in the future is "correctly adjusted".


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 10, 2016, 10:40:48 am
Read an article that noticed how Trumps people were wanting info from some current government agencies like the EPA and were asking questions about the employees that seemed rather disturbing like "What kind of organizations or groups employees belonged to outside of work?" "What kinds of papers, articles, research, etc. had any of them done or had published or peer reviewed." etc.  Basically the context seemed to imply "If you believe X "In climate change for instance" and we find proof of that, you may be out of a job, we may defund that job and or replace you with someone who believes as we do. One was part of an agency that was supposed to non-biased and not political but to simply supply research information upon which to  to inform the public and businesses.  May be that the information we get in the future is "correctly adjusted".

If this is really the case, one could make a similar inference that it is possible agencies have previously been staffed with people who support a specific agenda.

I’m not defending Trump’s choice of Pruitt to lead the EPA but pointing out if it’s possible to staff an agency to support an agenda now, then it has always been the case.

/tinfoil hat off.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on December 10, 2016, 11:58:05 am
If this is really the case, one could make a similar inference that it is possible agencies have previously been staffed with people who support a specific agenda.

I’m not defending Trump’s choice of Pruitt to lead the EPA but pointing out if it’s possible to staff an agency to support an agenda now, then it has always been the case.

/tinfoil hat off.

Republican President Richard Nixon wanted to give the feds a tool to counter individual state's corruption involving unchecked pollution of our water and air when he created the EPA. 

Some things tend to work better at the federal level.  Printing money, major disaster relief, national defense.  Demanding clean water might be an agenda, but its something most people wouldn't be willing to give up.


William...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/09/trump-transition-team-for-energy-department-seeks-names-of-employees-involved-in-climate-meetings/


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 10, 2016, 04:34:03 pm
Republican President Richard Nixon wanted to give the feds a tool to counter individual state's corruption involving unchecked pollution of our water and air when he created the EPA. 

Some things tend to work better at the federal level.  Printing money, major disaster relief, national defense.  Demanding clean water might be an agenda, but its something most people wouldn't be willing to give up.


William...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/12/09/trump-transition-team-for-energy-department-seeks-names-of-employees-involved-in-climate-meetings/

When it comes to rivers, ground water, and air which all cross state lines it makes sense for federal regulations.  That is until you get a troglodyte like Pruitt trying to help ensure changes to state constitutions to usurp federal authority in terms of air and water.

The silver lining is perhaps we will get a new AG who understands, you know, the law.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2016, 12:16:53 pm
The silver lining is perhaps we will get a new AG who understands, you know, the law.

I'd have a difficult time placing a wager on this.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 12, 2016, 12:46:34 pm
Support whatever agenda you want.  My pet peeve is ignoring or manipulating evidence if it doesn't fit your agenda.  There is plenty of ground for making changes to the EPA without having to flat out reject science, let alone passive aggressively threatening people who are actually conducting science ("what?  You did a peer reviewed study that reached a conclusion I don't like!  I demand to know your funding level..."  that's basically telling other researchers what results they better get).

I'm looking forward to the hearings on scientific evidence.  All steps taken by the EPA are supposed to be based on evidence back science (burning coal produces mercury, mercury causes health issues with humans, ergo - regulating mercury output is OK) and there are hearings where that can be challenged.  based on history, Pruitt is willing to argue that stopping Colorado from legalizing marijuana is a matter of Oklahoma's "states rights,"  that the Ten Commandments are in no way religious, and that Federal Preemption isn't a real thing.

So I suspect we have some sad hearings ahead...


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on December 13, 2016, 09:30:52 am

So I suspect we have some sad hearings ahead...

Reminds me of a Cards Against Humanity Card.  I only wish this would be funny.  It won’t.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 20, 2016, 07:48:57 pm
Reminds me of a Cards Against Humanity Card.  I only wish this would be funny.  It won’t.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/article/It-s-a-tough-time-in-Oklahoma-except-for-Scott-10808432.php


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 22, 2016, 02:21:12 pm
Amidst all the ugliness of the coming years...let's have a little beam of light and hope for better...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj6r3-sQr58



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: AquaMan on December 22, 2016, 03:31:12 pm
Quite nice. Thank you. Italy?


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: BKDotCom on December 22, 2016, 03:37:02 pm
Quite nice. Thank you. Italy?

Barcelona


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on December 26, 2016, 10:03:30 am
based on history, Pruitt is willing to argue that stopping Colorado from legalizing marijuana is a matter of Oklahoma's "states rights,"  that the Ten Commandments are in no way religious, and that Federal Preemption isn't a real thing.


Hes got big swamp money behind him:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/d-c-report-gop-group-pushing-scott-pruitt-s-nomination/article_b090e7d7-30f0-594d-be96-34409e3b0f74.htm




 "It's Got What Plants Crave"


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on February 16, 2017, 09:01:49 pm
Scott Pruitt, President Trump’s EPA Nominee, Ordered to Release Thousands of Emails

Oklahoma County District Judge Aletia Haynes Timmons told Pruitt's office that it would have to hand over the emails to the Center for Media and Democracy, or CMD, which requested the first batch of documents in 2014, or to the court.
But the CMD and Pearson said Pruitt's office intentionally withheld documents. Of the 411 emails it received for its initial request, the investigative group identified 27 that had been provided to The New York Times in a 2014 Pulitzer Prize-winning investigation that revealed that Pruitt had taken fracking rules drafted by Devon Energy, an Oklahoma oil company, and passed them as his own.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/scott-pruitt-president-trump-s-epa-nominee-ordered-release-thousands-n722161


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2017, 08:03:55 am
Scott Pruitt, President Trump’s EPA Nominee, Ordered to Release Thousands of Emails

Oklahoma County District Judge Aletia Haynes Timmons told Pruitt's office that it would have to hand over the emails to the Center for Media and Democracy, or CMD, which requested the first batch of documents in 2014, or to the court.
But the CMD and Pearson said Pruitt's office intentionally withheld documents. Of the 411 emails it received for its initial request, the investigative group identified 27 that had been provided to The New York Times in a 2014 Pulitzer Prize-winning investigation that revealed that Pruitt had taken fracking rules drafted by Devon Energy, an Oklahoma oil company, and passed them as his own.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/scott-pruitt-president-trump-s-epa-nominee-ordered-release-thousands-n722161



Not quite up to Bush's 22 million emails deleted from a private server hosted in the White House but same process in mind.



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on February 17, 2017, 09:01:52 am
He's going to be confirmed today.

Will he be next weeks crisis for the administration as his emails are poured over by the press starting today? I'm guessing so. Trump's vetting processes seem to be lacking. But then, ALL Trump's processes seems to be lacking.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2017, 10:18:47 am
So at least we will now get the opportunity to resume our spot as #1 in earthquakes - since he says he is gonna remove all regulations from oil companies.   Bring on the injection wells!!


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on February 17, 2017, 12:40:15 pm
Senate confirmed him


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Ed W on February 17, 2017, 03:48:11 pm
Senate confirmed him

What next? Victoria Jackson for the Department of Education? Oh, wait....


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on February 22, 2017, 12:00:35 pm
Senate confirmed him



OKLAHOMA CITY, Okla. — As a result of an Open Records Act request and lawsuit filed by the Center for Media and Democracy, on Tuesday night the Oklahoma Attorney General’s office released a batch of more than 7,500 pages of emails and other records it withheld prior to Scott Pruitt’s nomination as EPA Administrator last Friday.

The AG’s office has withheld an undetermined number of additional documents as exempted or privileged and submitted them to the Judge Aletia Haynes Timmons for review. A number of other documents were redacted, and CMD will be asking for the court to review those as well. On February 27, the AG’s office has been ordered to deliver records related to five outstanding requests by CMD.

“There is no valid legal justification for the emails we received last night not being released prior to Pruitt’s confirmation vote other than to evade public scrutiny,” said Arn Pearson, general counsel for CMD.


http://www.exposedbycmd.org/Scott-Pruitt-Missing-Emails


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 22, 2017, 12:04:09 pm
I like how they are patting themselves on the back for transparency after a couple of years and a Court order...

Quote
The office had until 5 p.m. Tuesday to comply with District Judge Aletia Haynes Timmons’s order to turn over emails and other documents to the Wisconsin-based Center for Media and Democracy, which requested the documents more than two years ago under Oklahoma’s Open Records Act.

. . .

“The office went above and beyond what is required under the Open Records Act and produced thousands of additional documents that, but for the court’s order, would typically be considered records outside the scope of the act,” Ferguson said in an emailed statement.

“This broad disclosure should provide affirmation that, despite politically motivated allegations, the office of attorney general remains fully committed to the letter and spirit of the Open Records Act,” Ferguson said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/usworld/epa-head-scott-pruitt-s-emails-with-energy-companies-to/article_71b58f26-0c26-5ac1-baf1-bef88b749d3f.html


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 22, 2017, 12:57:39 pm

Second post - would this be considered spamming?   Maybe if it weren't so true and pertinent.


https://www.facebook.com/AwarenessAct/videos/1295228900491644/


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on April 05, 2017, 11:13:29 pm
Fox News destroyed EPA chief Scott Pruitt over climate change
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/03/the-left-and-right-agree-fox-news-destroyed-epa-chief-scott-pruitt-over-climate-change


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: BKDotCom on April 06, 2017, 07:55:36 am
Fox News destroyed EPA chief Scott Pruitt over climate change
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/03/the-left-and-right-agree-fox-news-destroyed-epa-chief-scott-pruitt-over-climate-change


Fox News of all places.

Why's he using a Tulsa backdrop.   I don't want him associated with Tulsa.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on April 06, 2017, 10:06:35 am
Fox News of all places.

Why's he using a Tulsa backdrop.   I don't want him associated with Tulsa.

Well he's from here and apparently spends a good deal of time here now. I saw him at my son's lacrosse game a couple of weeks ago. His son plays for Cascia. Maybe he's not popular at the actual EPA?


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on April 06, 2017, 11:58:50 am
Well he's from here and apparently spends a good deal of time here now. I saw him at my son's lacrosse game a couple of weeks ago. His son plays for Cascia. Maybe he's not popular at the actual EPA?

The "lets give him a chance" crowd hang on the belief that he will surround himself with smarter people, but who picks the smarter people?


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on April 06, 2017, 12:23:36 pm
The "lets give him a chance" crowd hang on the belief that he will surround himself with smarter people, but who picks the smarter people?

Did you know that there is a Kremlin, Oklahoma?


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 06, 2017, 02:05:17 pm
The "lets give him a chance" crowd hang on the belief that he will surround himself with smarter people, but who picks the smarter people?


Trick question...?

Not Trump...universal answer.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on April 06, 2017, 03:55:23 pm
The "lets give him a chance" crowd hang on the belief that he will surround himself with smarter people, but who picks the smarter people?

This makes no sense. Scott Pruitt is a very well known quantity. And is well owned by the energy industry.

I may well see him again tomorrow. We play Cascia again tomorrow night, this time at Cascia at 7:00 if anyone wants to come to talk to Scott. I'm going to refrain as it's my son's game and the game should be about the kids. The last game got really chippy as Cascia is big and tough and not very good. When the score started to get out of hand they got pretty dirty with cheap shots.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 06, 2017, 05:49:39 pm
Horrible..just horrible.

Quote
Hard times have arrived at the Environmental Protection Agency. It’s not just the budget and staff cuts which have the long time staffers down in the dumps. It seems that they feel the new boss, Scott Pruitt, as well as his boss, aren’t exactly onboard with the old agenda which they’ve grown used to over eight years under Barack Obama. According to this report from the LA Times, this has some of them feeling so glum and hopeless that they are thinking of leaving their plush, virtually fire-proof jobs and heading out in search of greener pastures. The pressure is such that Jared Blumenfeld, a regional EPA administrator, says his phone is “ringing off the hook.”

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/04/05/and-then-depression-set-in-at-the-epa/


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on April 06, 2017, 06:46:22 pm
Hard times have arrived at the Environmental Protection Agency. It’s not just the budget and staff cuts which have the long time staffers down in the dumps. It seems that they feel the new boss, Scott Pruitt, as well as his boss, aren’t exactly onboard with the old agenda which they’ve grown used to over eight years under Barack Obama. According to this report from the LA Times, this has some of them feeling so glum and hopeless that they are thinking of leaving their plush, virtually fire-proof jobs and heading out in search of greener pastures. The pressure is such that Jared Blumenfeld, a regional EPA administrator, says his phone is “ringing off the hook.”

Knowing you boss' goals are to undermine your work and eliminate your job must be the new "plush."


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 06, 2017, 06:58:39 pm
Knowing you boss' goals are to undermine your work and eliminate your job must be the new "plush."

That. Or the days of their job killing overrugulation are over and gravy train stopped.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: BKDotCom on April 07, 2017, 08:15:54 am
That. Or the days of their job killing overrugulation are over and gravy train stopped.

Thanks Trump
(http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/11/pennsylvania-coal-miners-P.jpeg)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: AquaMan on April 07, 2017, 10:41:56 am
Yeah, Gweed. Happy days are here again.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on April 07, 2017, 11:38:58 am
Yeah, Gweed. Happy days are here again.


The entire coal industry employs fewer people than Arby’s

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2017/03/coal_jobs.png)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/31/8-surprisingly-small-industries-that-employ-more-people-than-coal/




Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 07, 2017, 01:27:54 pm
Thanks Trump
(http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/11/pennsylvania-coal-miners-P.jpeg)

Yeah. The days of kids in coal mines are coming back because the EPA employees are depressed. Drama queens are everywhere.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: AquaMan on April 08, 2017, 06:26:28 am
For a man whose posts reek of exaggeration and spin like a top you sure seem offended when its used to answer. Republicans have never looked worse than when they wear the garb of Bannon and Breitbart style hate filled ultra conservatism. It suits you though.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Breadburner on April 08, 2017, 07:39:11 am
It's about time somebody reigns in an out of control EPA......


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Breadburner on April 08, 2017, 07:41:02 am
Fox News destroyed EPA chief Scott Pruitt over climate change
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/03/the-left-and-right-agree-fox-news-destroyed-epa-chief-scott-pruitt-over-climate-change



Lol..Climate change...What a joke....


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on April 08, 2017, 08:30:31 am

Lol..Climate change...What a joke....

Yeah...really funny.

I'm sure you think the Earth is flat also, like Shaq.

 ::)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 08, 2017, 03:46:12 pm
For a man whose posts reek of exaggeration and spin like a top you sure seem offended when its used to answer. Republicans have never looked worse than when they wear the garb of Bannon and Breitbart style hate filled ultra conservatism. It suits you though.


(https://pics.onsizzle.com/imsteve-bannon-liberals-fear-me-6597731.png)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: AquaMan on April 09, 2017, 02:34:51 pm
Loathe him is more accurate. I fear ignorance being passed on to youth.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 09, 2017, 03:15:03 pm
Loathe him is more accurate. I fear ignorance being passed on to youth.

That was my fear when Obama said there was 57 states, and 10,000 Americans were killed in a Kansas tornado, and that breathalyzers are used as an emergency treatment for asthma.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: rebound on April 10, 2017, 08:18:37 am
That was my fear when Obama said there was 57 states, and 10,000 Americans were killed in a Kansas tornado, and that breathalyzers are used as an emergency treatment for asthma.

Your fear?  Come on man.  The problem is not the immediate mistake or gaffe.  Heck Bush had those all the time.  And while yes people joked about them, no one seriously thought he was going to try to stand by the statement.  Trump and his ilk actually try to defend the statements and convince people that they are right.  They intentionally create and provide "alternate facts", etc.  That's the difference.

The Obama comparison is ridiculous.  All of them are simply gaffes in the moment, which he owned up and clarified.  The breathalyzer one was fixed even before he finished the sentence, he just couldn't find the right word. 

(On the "57 states" quote)
"Talking with reporters at a later campaign stop, Senator Obama expressed concern that he’d recently misstated both the number of potential victims of a recent cyclone in Burma and the number of states he’d visited, saying: “I hope I said 100 thousand people the first time instead of 100 million. I understand I said there were 57 states today. It’s a sign that my numeracy is getting a little, uh …”

(From Fox, regarding KS tornado)
As the Illinois senator concluded his remarks a few minutes later, he appeared to realize his gaffe.
"There are going to be times when I get tired," he said. "There are going to be times when I get weary. There are going to be times when I make mistakes."


(Breathalyzer)
“Everybody knows that it makes no sense that you send a kid to the emergency room for a treatable illness like asthma. They end up taking up a hospital bed. It costs when, if you, they just gave, you gave, treatment early, and they got some treatment, and uhhh a breathalyzer, or uhh, an inhalator, not a breathalyzer...”







Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on April 10, 2017, 08:22:25 am
Your fear?  Come on man.  The problem is not the immediate mistake or gaffe.  Heck Bush had those all the time.  And while yes people joked about them, no one seriously thought he was going to try to stand by the statement.  Trump and his ilk actually try to defend the statements and convince people that they are right.  They intentionally create and provide "alternate facts", etc.  That's the difference.

The Obama comparison is ridiculous.  All of them are simply gaffes in the moment, which he owned up and clarified.  The breathalyzer one was fixed even before he finished the sentence, he just couldn't find the right word. 

(On the "57 states" quote)
"Talking with reporters at a later campaign stop, Senator Obama expressed concern that he’d recently misstated both the number of potential victims of a recent cyclone in Burma and the number of states he’d visited, saying: “I hope I said 100 thousand people the first time instead of 100 million. I understand I said there were 57 states today. It’s a sign that my numeracy is getting a little, uh …”

(From Fox, regarding KS tornado)
As the Illinois senator concluded his remarks a few minutes later, he appeared to realize his gaffe.
"There are going to be times when I get tired," he said. "There are going to be times when I get weary. There are going to be times when I make mistakes."


(Breathalyzer)
“Everybody knows that it makes no sense that you send a kid to the emergency room for a treatable illness like asthma. They end up taking up a hospital bed. It costs when, if you, they just gave, you gave, treatment early, and they got some treatment, and uhhh a breathalyzer, or uhh, an inhalator, not a breathalyzer...”







I love it when the counselor comes on here with his ODS.

Now, I wonder where all the outrage from the right will be regarding this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-travel-expenses-10-weeks-us-taxpayer-fifth-barack-obama-eight-years-mar-a-lago-us-a7670541.html


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: erfalf on April 10, 2017, 08:36:27 am

The entire coal industry employs fewer people than Arby’s

Pay is slightly better...

But the working conditions... Arby's is pretty rough though, so...


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: AquaMan on April 10, 2017, 08:43:36 am
Hoss, its too late for him or anyone weened on the Fox network. But I really do fear for the younger set being polluted by the mindset of the hoaxers and their network of disbelief. I am starting to see and hear outrageous "science" statements from homeschooled, fundamentalist school graduates. Science doesn't care about their politics or their "prophecy" view of the world. Add to that the anti-intellectualism being foisted on us for the same reasons and pretty soon we really will be an Idiocracy.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 10, 2017, 09:37:05 am
That was my fear when Obama said there was 57 states, and 10,000 Americans were killed in a Kansas tornado, and that breathalyzers are used as an emergency treatment for asthma.


See...exactly what I have been talking about when the RWRE won't go past the sound bite...they just keep on getting it wrong every single time.




Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 10, 2017, 03:45:18 pm
I love it when the counselor comes on here with his ODS.

Now, I wonder where all the outrage from the right will be regarding this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-travel-expenses-10-weeks-us-taxpayer-fifth-barack-obama-eight-years-mar-a-lago-us-a7670541.html
(http://i.imgur.com/avHnbUZ.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/PijcGEU.gif?noredirect)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on April 10, 2017, 04:20:38 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/avHnbUZ.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/PijcGEU.gif?noredirect)

Still king of the AV world I see....does that translate well in your litigation?

Just curious.   :P


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 11, 2017, 08:30:29 am
That. Or the days of their job killing overrugulation are over and gravy train stopped.


I keep asking... no one of the RWRE ever answers... What over-regulation??  As in an example beyond the sound-bite Faux Fox News lies, distortions, and fabrications....

Looking for examples...  For years, still haven't heard one single valid objectionable example.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: erfalf on April 11, 2017, 08:45:22 am

I keep asking... no one of the RWRE ever answers... What over-regulation??  As in an example beyond the sound-bite Faux Fox News lies, distortions, and fabrications....

Looking for examples...  For years, still haven't heard one single valid objectionable example.


Mandating companies with over 50 employees to provide health insurance is over-regulation. That's an easy one.

The Dodd-Frank regs (voluminous) are putting smaller banks out of business while helping the very thing that we labeled as a risk not that long ago. There has been single digit creation of new banks since, and I doubt that is a coincidence, since as far as I can tell lending/investing money still seems to be a fairly profitable enterprise. At least it looks that way when I walk into virtually any regional or large bank branch.

Google the REINS Act. To address this very thing. But I'm sure it's just made up by some wingnuts that watch too much FOX News. Good for Congress for un-delegating some of it's responsibilities.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: BKDotCom on April 11, 2017, 08:48:41 am

What over-regulation??


Prohibiting lead bullets
Prohibiting pesticides that double as chemical weapons
Prohibiting asbestos
Mandating higher gas milage
etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2QXMGYluzo


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 11, 2017, 09:00:55 am
Mandating companies with over 50 employees to provide health insurance is over-regulation. That's an easy one.

The Dodd-Frank regs (voluminous) are putting smaller banks out of business while helping the very thing that we labeled as a risk not that long ago. There has been single digit creation of new banks since, and I doubt that is a coincidence, since as far as I can tell lending/investing money still seems to be a fairly profitable enterprise. At least it looks that way when I walk into virtually any regional or large bank branch.


BS.  There is no absolute requirement that a company over 50 provide insurance.  There IS however a provision that prevents a company from doing that without providing relief to the rest of us who then have to subsidize that cost - the cost of uninsured people riding on the backs of people who do participate and pay for the entire infrastructure - there is a tax for not providing insurance.  Sadly, it is most likely lower than the cost of insurance and would never offset the cost we have to pay to let those freeloaders carry on with business as usual.


As for Dodd-Frank.  Interesting thing - a bill disguised as "regulatory overhaul" that really just lets the biggest banks continue on with business as usual, while as you noted, blocking new banks from starting up.  That is not regulatory - that is monopoly enhancement.  Written BY big banks - FOR big banks.

Next...!?


How about the EPA?  Since that is the nominal topic?  Or OSHA?   FMCA?








Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: erfalf on April 11, 2017, 09:28:47 am

BS.  There is no absolute requirement that a company over 50 provide insurance.  There IS however a provision that prevents a company from doing that without providing relief to the rest of us who then have to subsidize that cost - the cost of uninsured people riding on the backs of people who do participate and pay for the entire infrastructure - there is a tax for not providing insurance.  Sadly, it is most likely lower than the cost of insurance and would never offset the cost we have to pay to let those freeloaders carry on with business as usual.


As for Dodd-Frank.  Interesting thing - a bill disguised as "regulatory overhaul" that really just lets the biggest banks continue on with business as usual, while as you noted, blocking new banks from starting up.  That is not regulatory - that is monopoly enhancement.  Written BY big banks - FOR big banks.

Next...!?


How about the EPA?  Since that is the nominal topic?  Or OSHA?   FMCA?








So your strategy is to not call a reg a reg, and claim there are no regs.

Got it.

And I grew up on a family farm. EPA is a four letter word. Which coincidentally, many EPA regs seem to tilt the scales toward much larger farm producers as well. All though it's not a coincidence at all. But you know that.

See a trend here. Agencies generally are just a blunt object with which competition is beaten down.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 11, 2017, 09:34:55 am
Prohibiting lead bullets
Prohibiting pesticides that double as chemical weapons
Prohibiting asbestos
Mandating higher gas milage
etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2QXMGYluzo


I love the sarcasm!!   Fits my personality perfectly!!


I do have one comment about higher mileage - and the good things that have happened since that started.  All the associated "added costs" really have not raised the price of a car in real terms at all.  Still looking and will post when I find it - comparison on Honda cost over about 30 years - the price of the car was within a few dollars in real terms (inflation adjusted) to the cost 30 years ago - tens of dollars, not hundreds.  But in that time, in the quest for more power in the same engine volume, vast changes have been made in a wide range of areas to comply with mileage and pollution regulations.  

Starting with the simple little EGR valve - when they were first put into cars, I remember all the people I knew took them out, so they could continue to direct vent the crankcase without a trip through the carb and combustion cycle.  Except that always cut their mileage with no noticeable increase in power/performance - no matter how much they tried to lie about it!  You could always get better performance by adjusting the ignition timing and dwell a little bit.

Then electronic ignitions came along.  Hardened valve seats to allow unleaded gas.  Better spark plugs.  All these things combined to make it so that today, most new car buyers will never own a car long enough for it to need a 'tune-up'.  Every car I had until 1980 - and my 70 Cutlass still - required new plugs, points, distributor cap, rotor EVERY 10,000 miles!!  No matter what!!   They STOP running not long after that without the maintenance....    So imagine how people would react if they had to go spend $400 every 6 to 9 months on a tune-up!  Lol...

Oil changes - were 2,500 miles.  Today what...about 5,000 or more?  Better oil and better filters.  And yeah, there is still the cheap junk filter available - FRAM - but you can get a WIX and have a very good oil filter!   Lately the oil companies have started re-formulating their oils, especially for diesel engines...and it has NOT been a step forward !!

I got as high as 21 mpg on the Cutlass in the past - during the era of 55 mph speed limits, with a tail wind.  14 - 15 was the more normal highway level.  1980 Olds Delta got 17 city, 23 highway.  We have stagnated horribly - 2007 Merc only gets a little better - 21 city, 26 highway.  That is ridiculous that it isn't better.  And a Honda/Toyota/Lexus - exactly the same!    Case of needing more regulation!  Which we had, then got taken away again by Trump.

And a huge step backwards - my 80's cars all had 5 mph bumpers meaning there was NO damage in a collision up to 5 mph.  And it worked!!   But then the anti-regulation clown show took that away...what does a 5 mph collision cost today?   Thousands!!   Who was helped by the elimination of those regulations??   Certainly not real people.

Turns out I had more than one comment...



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 11, 2017, 09:46:55 am
So your strategy is to not call a reg a reg, and claim there are no regs.

Got it.

And I grew up on a family farm. EPA is a four letter word. Which coincidentally, many EPA regs seem to tilt the scales toward much larger farm producers as well. All though it's not a coincidence at all. But you know that.

See a trend here. Agencies generally are just a blunt object with which competition is beaten down.


No...just when there is no real regulation to be discussed.

EPA - yeah, I can see how not being allowed to continue the practices that ended up with the Cuyahoga river catching on fire might be construed as "restrictive".  Or the dust bowl...  "Gee whiz...I can't keep on indiscriminately trashing the world around me..." and all the long term effects on the rest of the population, would be a culture shock.  EPA regulations have not gone far enough on the herbicide front - RoundUp.  Usage has skyrocketed because it is no longer effective on a quickly broadening range of "pest" plants.  At the same time, Roundup resistance genetics are being put into the seed to allow even higher dosage rates.  Stupid stuff going on in your food !!

Regulations have often been bought and paid for by corporate America - see any activity engaged in by DuPont/Monsanto, etc.  But there have been many that actually helped real people INCLUDING small farmers!!  And if you have not totally walked away from your heritage, you would see the huge resurgence going on in the small farm world for the last couple decades!  I grew up in the 50's/60's family farm environment - I didn't live on one, but ALL my cousins did and we visited a LOT.  Only one (out of maybe 25 - 30) remains on a farm, and he is getting ready to retire.  I am starting up again in that world FOR retirement!

Today's small family farm is not fighting regulations - they are fighting the big corporate farms who have taken over agriculture!   Just try to grow ANY field crop today - the alternative, natural, heritage variety - on a small farm.  If you grow specialty corn you WILL run into problems with Monsanto genetics contaminating your crop!  And then, if you complain, Monsanto will sue you for 'stealing' their IP.   Same with beans.  Wheat hasn't quite got to that point - there are quite a few emmer and spelt growers out there doing very well.

Anything you grow, though, from fruits to nuts will have trouble from time to time.  And if you complain, you will be pushed down.



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: erfalf on April 11, 2017, 10:24:30 am
So because some regulations are good, all regulations are good.

For some reason the only thing I ever think of when I discuss things with you is this...

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-trouble-with-our-liberal-friends-is-not-that-they-re-ignorant-it-s-just-that-they-ronald-reagan-24-11-94.jpg)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on April 11, 2017, 10:35:55 am
So because some regulations are good, all regulations are good.

For some reason the only thing I ever think of when I discuss things with you is this...

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-trouble-with-our-liberal-friends-is-not-that-they-re-ignorant-it-s-just-that-they-ronald-reagan-24-11-94.jpg)

With that quote coming from the master of Trickledown...so much irony.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: erfalf on April 11, 2017, 10:46:56 am
You also realize corporations as competitors are not hurting the family farm in Oklahoma? They are all but outlawed in this state. Except maybe in livestock production. Now, corporations like Monsanto and such you could maybe make that argument, but it is generally going to just be a pricing issue.

Generally speaking the issues with regulation come at costs. Who is going to bear the costs. Since no one seems to want to pay more for food that is being produced on less and less acres, the farmer is taking the brunt end of it. At some point I believe that we will come to a tipping point.

And you think the farmers now and then wanted the dust bowl to happen. "Modern" farming practices at the time led to the dust bowl (that and virtually no rain for 8 years, which I might add would be bad for just about any region). Modern farming practices that were widely accepted by our government, our regulation creating body. They did what they were supposed to and it didn't work out. Linking that and fiery rivers is beyond ridiculous. Farming practices have changed immensely over the decades thanks in large part to another government body (Oklahoma State University and the like across the country). It the vary same set of weather circumstances arose today however, I doubt the outcome would be dramatically different. That truly was a disaster beyond mankind stopping it.

In many cases though, our fair government, in the name of conservation, does exactly the opposite. Generally speaking, federally regulating something like farming is a fools errand as it "farming" varies so widely from state to state. THAT is the problem.

And do you really think, a farmer, who intends to hand it off at some point, is looking for a quick buck at the expense of his land. The land IS the commodity. The corn/wheat/beans are a byproduct of the land. I wish people would get that. But they know better.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: saintnicster on April 11, 2017, 10:51:48 am
So because some regulations are good, all regulations are good.

For some reason the only thing I ever think of when I discuss things with you is this...
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-trouble-with-our-liberal-friends-is-not-that-they-re-ignorant-it-s-just-that-they-ronald-reagan-24-11-94.jpg

"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size" Ronald Reagan
I can pull quotes out of context too :D


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: erfalf on April 11, 2017, 10:55:55 am
"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size" Ronald Reagan
I can pull quotes out of context too :D

Mine isn't out of context though.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 11, 2017, 03:07:44 pm
You also realize corporations as competitors are not hurting the family farm in Oklahoma? They are all but outlawed in this state. Except maybe in livestock production. Now, corporations like Monsanto and such you could maybe make that argument, but it is generally going to just be a pricing issue.

Generally speaking the issues with regulation come at costs. Who is going to bear the costs. Since no one seems to want to pay more for food that is being produced on less and less acres, the farmer is taking the brunt end of it. At some point I believe that we will come to a tipping point.

And you think the farmers now and then wanted the dust bowl to happen. "Modern" farming practices at the time led to the dust bowl (that and virtually no rain for 8 years, which I might add would be bad for just about any region). Modern farming practices that were widely accepted by our government, our regulation creating body. They did what they were supposed to and it didn't work out. Linking that and fiery rivers is beyond ridiculous. Farming practices have changed immensely over the decades thanks in large part to another government body (Oklahoma State University and the like across the country). It the vary same set of weather circumstances arose today however, I doubt the outcome would be dramatically different. That truly was a disaster beyond mankind stopping it.

In many cases though, our fair government, in the name of conservation, does exactly the opposite. Generally speaking, federally regulating something like farming is a fools errand as it "farming" varies so widely from state to state. THAT is the problem.

And do you really think, a farmer, who intends to hand it off at some point, is looking for a quick buck at the expense of his land. The land IS the commodity. The corn/wheat/beans are a byproduct of the land. I wish people would get that. But they know better.


You certainly are old enough to understand that you don't have to "own" something - in this case land - to control the use of it.  Think Tyson.  They don't own a sq foot of land in this state, but exert a lot of control.  Just because there is a "law" doesn't keep the thing from happening the law was written for.   And yeah, they do hurt, not just the family farm in Oklahoma, but overlap other areas of activity.  Been to the Illinois River lately??

Monsanto - much more than just price fixing and collusion - I touched on that in the post.  They actively go after people who complain about their crops being contaminated by Monsanto "largesse" in the form of their genetics being spread all around the area.

Dust bowl - you are making my point - there was no regulation.  Just as there was no understanding of the land they were on trying to apply practices from other areas that just didn't apply.  The plains had really just been farmed for a couple decades, with the 20's having a huge expansion.  By the way, we are in drought here, too, right now - some of it extreme.  Our practices are different, so we are not getting the big dust storms seen then...well, except for one we had in 2005 that was pretty good size...  And even after all that, we did the same thing over again in the 40's during WWII.  And the 50's - when the govt paid people to grow pasture instead of wheat.  Dodged a bullet on that one...   And OSU was trying to get farmers to diversify and get away from monoculture as early as 1905 - 1910.  But people would not listen and since there were NO regulations or govt buyback programs to stop the effects, the landslide just gathered steam and headed over the edge.  I have a grandfather and uncle who came to Stillwater area at the first land grab and set up farming.  His ledgers mention how he would talk to OSU people regularly for advise - he was much more progressive than most.  By the late teens they went back to KS due to age.

Kind of like global climate change - since we don't understand, maybe we should be moving cautiously..??   We also see a big experiment like this going on in South America where the rain forest "desert" is being decimated to get 2 or 3 years of crops like wheat, corn, beans, etc.  And then when it is ecologically reduced to rubble, move on to the next freshly cut plot.

Here is a map of precipitation going back to the 1890's.  The 30's really weren't that much worse than other times - like the 50's and 60's.  It's what you do during those times that count's.  And the 40's problems - well there was above average rain, but due to farming practices, big problems.  Mankind brought the problems on and mankind stopped it (see 50's and 60's) by doing what they should instead of all the "rugged individualists" being bad stewards of the land...

http://climate.ok.gov/index.php/climate/climate_trends/precipitation_history_annual_statewide/CD00/prcp/Annual/oklahoma_climate


Getting rid of regulation is what that state question wanted to do last year - make it so large corporate groups could do whatever they wanted with no oversight.  So, yeah, there is definitely a place for regulation.

Finally something we are 100% aligned together one - the land is what is important - if you take care of it, it will take care of you!   Except too many don't actually agree with that.  And it's really much more than a commodity....









Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 13, 2017, 05:44:19 pm
No more gym memberships...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pruitt-ends-epa-gym-memberships/article/2620217


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on April 14, 2017, 11:10:39 am
No more gym memberships...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pruitt-ends-epa-gym-memberships/article/2620217

Wouldn't want sound bodies/sound minds working for Pruitt.  They'd be too smart for him.

Oklahoma sure can breed them.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 14, 2017, 11:53:08 am
Wouldn't want sound bodies/sound minds working for Pruitt.  They'd be too smart for him.

Oklahoma sure can breed them.

Christmas gift idea for you. Buy a gym membership for your favorite EPA worker.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on April 14, 2017, 02:10:43 pm
Christmas gift idea for you. Buy a gym membership for your favorite EPA worker.

Go get yourself an anus to eat


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Hoss on April 14, 2017, 03:16:33 pm
Go get yourself an anus to eat

(http://clipartix.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Thumbs-up-clipart-cliparts-for-you.jpg)


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 14, 2017, 05:10:28 pm
Go get yourself an anus to eat
Have a blessed and reflective Good Friday and Easter.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: joiei on April 14, 2017, 07:10:16 pm
Have a blessed and reflective Good Friday and Easter.

You also Guido.  If it isn't raining, I'll be at the sunrise service at Guthrie Green. 


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: guido911 on April 14, 2017, 07:26:47 pm
You also Guido.  If it isn't raining, I'll be at the sunrise service at Guthrie Green.  


Never been to that one. I go to Easter Vigil and then Sunday night. Also did Mass of the Lord's Supper Thursday and Stations today. Had kiddo duty for Good Friday Mass.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on August 28, 2017, 06:18:51 pm
WASHINGTON — A high-ranking political appointee at the Environmental Protection Agency has been cited by federal regulators for unspecified violations while serving as the top executive at an Oklahoma bank.

Albert “Kell” Kelly was hired earlier this year as a senior adviser to EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. Kelly was previously the chairman of SpiritBank, headquartered in Tulsa.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/adviser-to-epa-chief-cited-for-federal-banking-violations/2017/08/28/e5c40762-8c3a-11e7-9c53-6a169beb0953_story.html?utm_term=.791da2072546


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 07:06:15 am
In other EPA news, Pruitt said recently that science shouldn't be thrown about to dictate policy in the United States, what we need is televised "debates" about settled science, then we can base policy off of that.... I guess?  Just as long as it isn't science.  From the head of the EPA.  Which is supposed to base EVERY decision off of science.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/epa-chief-scott-pruitt-science-dictate-policy/

Quote
The mission of EPA is to protect human health and the environment.
EPA's purpose is to ensure that:
* all Americans are protected from significant risks to human health and the environment where they live, learn and work;
*national efforts to reduce environmental risk are based on the best available scientific informationn;
https://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/our-mission-and-what-we-do

Unless you don't like the best available scientific information?  Bah, just change the policy statement.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on August 29, 2017, 08:25:22 am
In other EPA news, Pruitt said recently that science shouldn't be thrown about to dictate policy in the United States, what we need is televised "debates" about settled science, then we can base policy off of that.... I guess?  Just as long as it isn't science.  From the head of the EPA.  Which is supposed to base EVERY decision off of science.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/epa-chief-scott-pruitt-science-dictate-policy/
https://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/our-mission-and-what-we-do

Unless you don't like the best available scientific information?  Bah, just change the policy statement.


Pure insanity.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 29, 2017, 08:30:15 am

You couldn't possibly be surprised by any of this...   It's Trump World.



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: swake on August 29, 2017, 08:37:58 am
You couldn't possibly be surprised by any of this...   It's Trump World.



Just because you expect the crazy, doesn't change the fact that it IS crazy.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 29, 2017, 08:44:09 am
Just because you expect the crazy, doesn't change the fact that it IS crazy.


Absolutely!!   It is beyond crazy...!   The guy is well into dementia - could be Alzheimers.  But given his history of like behaviour for so long a time, he may just be plain old paranoid schizophrenic.  Hard to say without more info.


What is more concerning to me is the way to apparent willingness in complicity of the entire Republican party, with only a very few notable exceptions, to not only condone but, with inaction, actively endorse this completely immoral regime and President.  It says so much about the true "good family values and Christian beliefs" of these people than any other commentary and action we have ever seen before.



Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 10:51:16 am
In other EPA news, Pruitt said recently that science shouldn't be thrown about to dictate policy in the United States, what we need is televised "debates" about settled science, then we can base policy off of that.... I guess?  Just as long as it isn't science.  From the head of the EPA.  Which is supposed to base EVERY decision off of science.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/epa-chief-scott-pruitt-science-dictate-policy/
https://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/our-mission-and-what-we-do

Unless you don't like the best available scientific information?  Bah, just change the policy statement.


So this rather helps prove my point that things like climate science can be influenced or filtered by political agendas, eh Cannon?


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2017, 11:10:49 am
So this rather helps prove my point that things like climate science can be influenced or filtered by political agendas, eh Cannon?

No - but the stupid can


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 12:18:47 pm
So this rather helps prove my point that things like climate science can be influenced or filtered by political agendas, eh Cannon?

Nope.  Rather than helping your point it deals a significant blow. I think you've been trying to say that there is a scientific debate going on with climate change, this reinforces the notion that it is merely political.

I mean, sure.  Any subject can be influenced or filtered by political agendas.  Trump could demand tomorrow that schools that receive Federal funds teach that babies come from storks.  That doesn't change the science behind it that say otherwise.  Scott Pruitt can say science doesn't matter, climate change is "unsettled", and that we must debate this on TV.  That doesn't change the science one bit.

So I agree in so much as the denial of climate change is a political agenda item, not a scientific debate.  Which explain why the head of the EPA feels the need to make such ridiculous statements.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on September 23, 2017, 08:53:16 am
We could guard Beyoncé for less than what it costs to protect EPA chief
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/carl-hiaasen/article174938816.html


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on September 27, 2017, 08:45:31 am
Cone of $ilence.

E.P.A. to Spend Nearly $25,000 on a Soundproof Booth for Pruitt
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/climate/pruitt-epa.html


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on September 28, 2017, 09:03:06 am
Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/scott-pruitt-spending-epa_us_59cc2a95e4b05063fe0ef9b3


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on September 28, 2017, 12:08:19 pm
Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/scott-pruitt-spending-epa_us_59cc2a95e4b05063fe0ef9b3

Pruitt is a D-Bag but it seems like false outrage on the part of Huff-Poo.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 28, 2017, 12:48:51 pm
Pruitt is a D-Bag but it seems like false outrage on the part of Huff-Poo.

They probably didn't bother to check that there are no commercial flights between Tulsa and Guymon, and Guymon and OKC. Those east coast/west coast opinion writers have the luxury of commercial shuttles everywhere along the coasts.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on September 28, 2017, 06:57:08 pm
Pruitt is a D-Bag but it seems like false outrage on the part of Huff-Poo.

Perhaps, but its good to have an accounting for when Pruitt tells us what a great Governor he will be.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: patric on November 01, 2017, 10:59:10 am
E&E News published a fascinating piece on how religion may inform Pruitt's deregulatory ideology. The takeaway is that the creation story in Genesis shows that God has given mankind dominion over Earth. In contrast, environmentalists, as one pastor in the piece put it, "have started worshiping God's creation, the planet and all the living organisms on it, instead of God."

...and God says "drill baby drill"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-energy-202/2017/11/01/the-energy-202-pruitt-cites-bible-in-ending-way-epa-committees-staffed/59f8f39c30fb0468e7653f76/?utm_term=.112823033050


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: Conan71 on November 01, 2017, 12:37:33 pm
E&E News published a fascinating piece on how religion may inform Pruitt's deregulatory ideology.

I’m sorry I could have sworn that said “derogatory ideology”.  Very apt in this case.


Title: Re: Scott Pruitt to head the EPA
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 01, 2017, 01:46:08 pm
Perhaps, but its good to have an accounting for when Pruitt tells us what a great Governor he will be.


Okrahoma is gonna love it.