The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

This absolutely should have ground floor retail fronting Main.  If done right it could be a nice addition and better than the seldom-used sunken garden.  Hopefully the sculpture/fountain there finds a new home downtown.

I caught wind of this about a year ago and there was already a fight to try and get Kanbar to install street level retail.  It told me all I needed to know, they don't want to do it, and developers always win in this town.

Is this going in where the sunken plaza is that has the fountain sculpture that used to be where the Vault is now?   If so I hope Kanbar realizes that that sculpture is probably one of the most valuable pieces of art he owns.  I would guess its worth around $800,000 or more (which is worth more than some buildings have sold for downtown lol).

I'm sure he does not. You should offer to remove it for him for free.

I will give it a try  ;)

Its such an ugly, strange looking piece of metal. Bet its pretty heavy too. Will cost me a lot to haul it off but I will be willing to do it as a favor.  

Also, I may have underestimated its scrap metal value...

http://artist.christies.com/Harry-Bertoia--11973.aspx

 https://www.bonhams.com/press_release/13305/

I am trying to remember.  Years ago I saw one that was similar to the one in Tulsa, but smaller, go for, was it $500,000 or 5 mill?  Cant recall.  Think it was purchased by the Philly Museum of Art, may do some research.  Anyway, I always thought it so odd that the one here is just sitting outside in some hole with nary a mention about it as being one of the most significant pieces of art downtown.

hope it gets moved somewhere else downtown

Middle of Bartlett Square?

Middle of Bartlett Square?

It might be safer in Owasso since their cheerleaders run over stuff in downtown Tulsa.
 
 ;D

Permits issued.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/city-issues-permit-for--story-parking-garage-in-heart/article_f537992d-c361-5395-9c26-ea27f25d16b5.html

Is there a way to view the permit drawings online? 

Nope. You have to file an Open Records Request and then view them in person.

Are you allowed to photocopy and/or photograph them in there?

I see your cool parking garage and raise you the Georgetown Car Barn

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9049099,-77.0700837,3a,78.3y,26.07h,103.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT_jR68fHlBzfaACjnGhmoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9049099,-77.0700837,3a,78.3y,26.07h,103.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT_jR68fHlBzfaACjnGhmoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn’t be in the hands of one group

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn’t be in the hands of one group

Perhaps the developer is not interested in constructing more retail space to compete with all the vacant retail space in the buildings it already owns.  Seems like a good argument why so much downtown real estate shouldn’t be in the hands of one group

Or downtown Bellevue, WA with the Freemans. 

It COULD be a really good thing if the ownership group is on point and well capitalized and has a deep understanding of the different property types.  That's historically how malls were able to nail retail - they own the whole place so they can fine tune rents to get the perfect tenant mix, charging Nordstrom nothing and the Sunglass hut a fortune.

With one ownership group, you could conceivably see them treating the area as a district rather than as a group of individual buildings, making them all work together to create an attractive district for tenants and visitors.  It also gives the ownership group an incentive to figure out the Deco district perennial parking problem, where each property feels it needs to provide enough parking for itself and parking needs aren't addressed as a district.

But as we saw with Kanbar, one ownership can also be a big problem if they run into trouble or lose motivation. 

I agree with BKDotCom:  Constructing another parking garage seems short-sighted.  Self-driving vehicles will become common soon, I think.

Self-driving still seems to be a ways off from active public use on regular roads, but once it arrives, it could ramp very quickly, according to a new study by the Boston Consulting Group. The study found that by 2030, up to a quarter of driving miles in the U.S. could be handled by self-driving electric vehicles operating in shared service fleets in cities, due mostly to considerable cost savings for urban drivers

Any idea why the existing plaza was made so terrible?  Seems like it would be much better as a little pocket green space. 

Plans to build a new parking garage in downtown Tulsa are still up in the air. The question being debated is - does the project warrant tax abatement money from the city?
The city has set aside several million dollars to help build up downtown by providing tax abatements for certain projects. But some questioned whether the planned parking garage is the best recipient of that tax help.

Price Family Properties wants to build a parking garage at 4th and Main but said they can't do it unless they get the abatement money. Developers said the parking garage they hope to build would cost $15 million and add more than $50,000 annually in city sales tax revenue.

Daniel Regan, property manager for the group, went in front of the local development act review committee Tuesday, April 25.  He made the case that the garage deserves close to $1 million in tax abatements and said without it, the project will die.

"Every expert says we don't need more parking," said Committee Member Jonathan Belzley, "we need a better coordinated effort on the part of the city."

The committee also didn't have any renderings of the project to review, and some committee members wanted to see renderings of what it would actually look like before voting.

 "It means we need to know are there windows on the bottom floor?  Is there a ramp that gets you to a door and where might the doors be?  Nobody is going to hold you to the linear dimensions," said Blake Ewing, committee member.

Regan didn't have any renderings to show or express interest in pushing back the vote for more time to provide those details to the group.

But committee members voted to give Price Family properties another chance to come back with more information anyway.
 
Price Family Properties has until the next meeting to come up with more comprehensive renderings and specific reasons as to why it cannot happen without the $900,000 abatement.

The committee also didn't have any renderings of the project to review, and some committee members wanted to see renderings of what it would actually look like before voting.

 "It means we need to know are there windows on the bottom floor?  Is there a ramp that gets you to a door and where might the doors be?  Nobody is going to hold you to the linear dimensions," said Blake Ewing, committee member.

Love Blake, he gets it unlike a lot of our city leaders.

I keep waiting for someone else to say it, can we please rename the thread title so that it reads correctly?   The proposed garage is at 4th and Main right?  Directly west of the current ONE Gas / First Place Tower building?

Love Blake, he gets it unlike a lot of our city leaders.

If you come to the city asking for a million dollars, you should have renderings, power points, charts, and fireworks.

"umm... dude... can I like... Have a million dollars?" is not a way to do business. We're not the administrators of your trust fund.

I thought I read the fencing for now is just for the sculpture removal/transfer. Haven't heard anything about any go ahead on the garage

I thought I read the fencing for now is just for the sculpture removal/transfer. Haven't heard anything about any go ahead on the garage

New rendering with first floor retail/restaurant space.

"The TDA approved a Downtown Development Redevelopment Fund committee request to negotiate a redevelopment request with First Place LLC in October 2015. After working toward a resolution, Mayor G.T. Bynum approved terms he sent to the TDA on Aug. 28.

Those terms include the 3,000 feet of immediate retail space on the ground floor, with provisions for future retail. The project also must maintain access via the tunnel system to Main Park Plaza Garage."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/downtown-parking-garage-plans-go-to-tulsa-development-authority/article_4200c911-6665-5fda-a504-5ced4edebbdd.html

That's a huge garage! Perhaps it is needed. That rendering doesn't look great to me and the final product might  be much worse and likely more obviously a garage. I wonder how those red strips would hold up over time.

It is good they added retail space but that rendering looks pretty boring like they haphazardly added it in as an afterthought.

If they are asking for a $1.7 million development loan AND "a six-year exemption on local property taxes" (which comes out to $940,083 from the city assuming they pay back they pay back the loan).
If the tax abatement is the only thing that will get them to add the ground-floor retail, then this is not worth it: $940,083/6-years is $52/square foot per year of that agreement!

I realize the parking is the bigger part of this, but they should be able to do that on their own without city help. The main thing they are "adding" to their own plan by city request is the retail. Is downtown really going to boom that much because of any extra spaces they might add with the extra taxpayer money? There are plenty of parking garages empty after 5pm and I don't think 500 will be needed there during the day any time soon. The number they can afford on their own should be plenty. I do see the advantage of them building as large a garage as possible this one time, but tax abatement for parking sets a pretty bad precedent.

I thought I read somewhere that parking garage is getting a facelift.

From Tulsa Parking Authority meeting minutes on city website:

IV. Discussion on Main Park Plaza garage improvements and alternate options

Looks to have been on the agenda for the last few months, but not sure what stage that is in...

TDA votes to negotiate loan agreement for downtown parking garage

The Tulsa Development Authority on Thursday unanimously OK'd plans to negotiate an agreement that would lend $1.67 million to a local developer for the construction of a downtown parking garage.

Headed by First Place LLC and developer Stuart Price, the project would place a 519-slot garage and at least 3,000-square-feet of retail space for a restaurant at 419 S. Main St.

The Downtown Development and Redevelopment Fund loan would provide First Place a six-year exemption on local property taxes and allow it to repay the loan over a 12-year period, documents show.

The city has one Tax Incentive District covering real estate within the Inner Dispersal Loop, the interstate highways surrounding downtown. The garage is projected to cost about $13 million, according to a building permit.

TDA approved a Downtown Development Redevelopment Fund committee request to negotiate a redevelopment request with First Place LLC in October 2015. After working toward a resolution, Mayor G.T. Bynum approved terms he sent to the TDA on Aug. 28.

Cyntergy is the architect for the project, and Nabholz is overseeing construction, which is set to take nine to 12 months, Price said this week.

I never knew what love would do 'til I saw your smile
And when I did I flipped my lid and almost went plum wild
But now I know I'll never show my love to anyone
'cause wham bam you broke my heart (downtown) and I hope that you had fun

(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied
You took my heart (downtown) and tore it apart you hurt me deep inside
I'll never be a fool again you really crushed my pride
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied

I looked at you and thought I knew just how the game was played
My shirt tail ran right up my back just like a window shade
I cross my heart I'll never start to pal for anyone
'cuz wham bam you broke my heart and hope that you had fun
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied
You took my heart (downtown) and you tore it apart you hurt me deep inside
I'll never be a fool again you really crushed my pride
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) and I hope you're satisfied

I made a mess of things I guess but now I'll recognize
The next young thing that tries to say its a love-light in her eye
The love light that you spoke about was only just a flame
'cuz every tome you meet a man it lights right up again
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) Hope you're satisfied
You took my heart (downtown) and you tore it apart you hurt me deep inside
I'll never be a fool again you really crushed my pride
(Wham bam thank you ma'am) I hope you're satisfied

It is good they added retail space but that rendering looks pretty boring like they haphazardly added it in as an afterthought.

Is there a requirement to consider or state what the public benefit of the project is and/or what are the criteria that the decision on public money revolves around?  There are some obvious questions -

Does the new project fulfill a community need - is there a lack of parking in the area?

There is a lack of parking owned by Price properties.

They could of done something like this.    <img src="https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/2707716/size/tmg-gift_guide_variable;jpeg_quality=20.jpg" alt="a parking garage in miami, florida"/> 

(https://st2.depositphotos.com/1380064/9166/i/450/depositphotos_91662200-stock-photo-night-scene-in-miami-beach.jpg)


So here's the thing about the miami parking garage...

We demand thicker walls for safety here in Tulsa


(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o9qtOLlevPY/UukZTF7PXTI/AAAAAAAAg10/ZltVlp5plFM/s1600/fotobrodo11.jpg)

I remember that.  You can still see the outline on the exterior wall---like the roadrunner.