The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Let’s ... focus on the issues

On a mountain of skulls,
in the castle of pain,
I sat on a throne of blood!
What was will be!
What is will be no more!
Now is the season of evil!

-Obamacare: What would happen with a full repeal, is it even possible?

-Hillary Clinton: Will there be a follow-through on continuing to investigate her email issue and allegations of pay-to-play at the CFF?

-Immigration: Will he fulfill his promise of sealing the borders and vetting Muslim immigrants?

-Obamacare: What would happen with a full repeal, is it even possible?

-Hillary Clinton: Will there be a follow-through on continuing to investigate her email issue and allegations of pay-to-play at the CFF?

-NAFTA & TPP: What happens with a repeal of these and would it mean bringing jobs to the rust belt?

Wait, so this guy says he wants a database for Muslims and belittles women yet we can't attack his character?

Sophisticated conversations regarding him went out of the window when he got a Twitter account.

Wait, so this guy says he wants a database for Muslims and belittles women yet we can't attack his character?

Database for Muslims. That's the issue I'll start with...

I'm thinking Trump may need to rethink his position on immigration. We need more Dreamers apparently. The current lot of native "Dreamers" doesn't seem to be all that bright. You know, those ditching class to protest the election.

I actually heard one on CNN saying he was concerned he was going to be deported to Guam. GUAM!

Heaven help us all.

So from Trump's own lips, here are his priorities:

10. Clean up Corruption in Washington Act. Enacts new ethics reforms to Drain the Swamp and reduce the corrupting influence of special interests on our politics.

Washington (CNN) To shape his administration, President-elect Donald Trump is drawing squarely from the "swamp" he has pledged to drain.
Trump's transition team is staffed with long-time Washington experts and lobbyists from K Street, think tanks and political offices.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transition-drain-the-swamp/

Trump Campaigned Against Lobbyists, but Now They’re on His Transition Team
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/us/politics/trump-campaigned-against-lobbyists-now-theyre-on-his-transition-team.html

Here’s who is being looked at by Trump for the cabinet:

Secretary of Treasury - Steven Mnuchin, 17 year Goldman Sachs guy, made Mad Max Fury Road, hedge funder
Secretary of Agriculture – Sam Brownback, Destroyed Kansas
Secretary of State – Newt Gingrich, deathbed divorce guy that gets along great with people
Chief of Staff – Reince Priebus, whatever
Attorney General - Rudy Giuliani, America’s crazy racist uncle mayor and current lobbyist
Secretary of Defense – Jeff Sessions (why? How? He was in the reserves 30 years ago?)
Secretary of the Interior – Harold Hamm, oilman and earthquake truther
Secretary of Commerce - Chris Christie, Bridge blocker
Secretary of Education – Ben Carson, semi-awake human and mumbler

What a staff!!

Insane.

Is there a complete list? I like the idea of Jamie Dimon in the cabinet.

News from today:

Trump is whining about protestors and the media:
Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump
Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!
8:19 PM - 10 Nov 2016

Add Steve Bannon as chief strategy advisor, co-equal with Priebus.

Immigration - I hope that he finally becomes the person to follow through on reform and enforcement of the borders. I don't see people rounding illegals up and putting them on trains, that's pure BS. I think what they are going to have to do is change they pathway to become a citizen, it shouldn't take seven to ten years for a someone to become a citizen.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/donald-trumps-comments-database-american-muslims/

...it shouldn't take seven to ten years for a someone to become a citizen.

7 to 10 seems a bit long but I have no problem with it being several years.  The requirement for English and some knowledge of our country is fair enough.   Just because US born kids don't learn it in school should not be an excuse for someone who wants to live here as a citizen instead of another country.  I do not think 5 years is unreasonable but it should not take an additional 2 to 5 years because of bureaucracy.  If the person cannot/will not learn English and civics in 5 years, it will just need to take a bit longer.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization/path-us-citizenship

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/21/race-relations-following-trumps-election/ (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/21/race-relations-following-trumps-election/)

I'm assuming this will only get worse. That's what happens when you elect someone who was a part of one of the largest discrimination lawsuits in history.

Not everyone wants to become a citizen. I have a friend that has lived in the US since he was an infant and to my knowledge has never even been to Jamaica or the UK since he was a small child, which are the countries he technically is a citizen of. He has a green card and has just never bothered to register to become a citizen.

My own grandfather lived here almost 30 years before he became a citizen. I think my father was in high school when my grandfather finally became a citizen. My grandfather was Canadian so there were no language or civics issues for him to need to learn. My father claimed dual citizenship so technically I can too. It's my "get the Trump outta here card" if things go really south.

Again people, let’s focus on our similarities instead of our differences.

I know through training at work that "Diversity" is supposed to help us embrace the differences among us.  Somehow it seems more effective at emphasizing the differences. No one wants to be an American anymore. They all want to be hyphenated Americans.  The melting pot is separating.

No, that’s not true, there have always been “others”. They just weren’t allowed at the table. Now they are and they have a voice too. You shouldn’t be threatened by that.

You quoted me but I don't believe you addressed my post. 

To answer you.  Yes there have always been "others".  It was not particularly popular to be "Eastern European" in the early 20th Century or even now if you listen to the initial tone on the Ancestry TV commercial.  I even had an electronics instructor in the Navy in the early 70s essentially say all persons of Polish decent were stupid and he never had one do well in his class.  I got an "A".  Groups that want to join the melting pot have contributed and adopted customs, holidays etc.  What I am seeing now seems more like trying to preserve tribes and stay different.  Think tribes in the Middle East.  You may not agree but that is what I see.

I don't feel threatened being an old white guy.  I don't believe the country will go to pieces in my lifetime.  I do resent the implication of the past election by the left leaning talking heads that all old white guys are stupid, racist......

Your results may vary.

When you vote for a racist bigot, the inference is easy to make

When you vote for a racist bigot, the inference is easy to make

What is the inference about the people who voted for the corrupt white heterosexual female who assisted in covering up multiple sexual assaults by a previous POTUS?

This isn't a new argument.

The Protestant settlers thought the Catholics  (http://www.ushistory.org/us/25f.asp)needed to assimilate, particularly those German catholics. The English and Germans thought the Eastern Europeans needed stop with their foolish traditions and assimilate. The Irish  (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/358458451562915200/)were both Catholic and had odd customs, and demands were made that they get with the program! Then there were the Jews (https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/assimilation-in-united-states-nineteenth-century), boy oh boy did they need to learn new habits. The Chinese were accused of holding onto their customs and clinging to their own communities.  Slave owners "beat the African" out of their slaves. Native Americans were taken from their homes and forced to learn English and adopt Christianity (very "successful" assimilation story).  Italians were lynched in New Orleans in the 1890s (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/opinion/falco-italian-immigrants/). During WWI German immigrants (many of whom had been here for generations) were told to stop speaking German and be more American.

Each time the last group of immigrants joined in and told the new group that they better assimilate or they will divide the country, as they celebrated St. Patrick's day, made goulash for dinner, stopped by Chinese restaurants, danced to African inspired music, chow down on Italian food, and lament the injustices done to the Native Americans.

Nativism is as old as America. (http://www.thetimesnews.com/article/20140908/Opinion/309089801) The more hostile the country is towards a particular group, the longer it takes them to assimilate.  It is the same story, "we've" just moved on to different "thems."

What is the inference about the people who voted for the corrupt white heterosexual female who assisted in covering up multiple sexual assaults by a previous POTUS?

We don't lock up wives of men who are criminals.

Now Trump has nominated Nikki Haley as Ambassador to the UN.

She is the current governor of a small and mostly rural state. Before entering politics she worked for her mother's clothing shop and has a bachelors degree from Clemson in Accounting.

She has exactly zero education or experience in International Relations or Diplomacy and is now going to be one of our most important diplomats. Nothing could go wrong there.

Perhaps they didn't want a White Nationalist as the top advisor to the President. Nor a science denying racist as AG that wants to evict all 11 million illegals from this country and wants to end LEGAL immigration. Or not have as the top person over domestic policy transition a man employed by a designated anti-gay hate group. Or someone over environmental policy that thinks that more greenhouse gasses are good. Or a often confused doctor with zero qualifications over housing, or Mary freaking Fallon over Interior.


And that's aside from the President Elects now admitted years of self dealing from his foundation that was required to shut down by the state of New York. Not to mention that he is now paying a million dollars in fines and 25 million in restitution over his fraudulent "University", and now his unwillingness to separate his business from his office. Plus of course his own sexual assaults and rape. And Trump's victims include children.

You see, there's not a moral equivalency between being married to a man who committed to sexual assault and being a man who has committed sexual assault and rape. We don't lock up wives of men who are criminals. I don't see the right going after Melania certainly and she has said far worse publicly about Trump's victims than Hillary ever did.

Give it six months, it's going to be damn hard to find an admitted Trump voter. He's already projected to lose the popular vote by 2.5 million votes, the polls weren't really that wrong except in certainly swing states, and some people are finding irregularities in those states electronic voting machines in certain areas. I hope we haven't been hacked. Or hacked more than Russia already did to elect this orange disaster.

What qualifications did her predecessor have that made her such a blazing success? Or does being an author and academic better suite one to be a diplomat? Come on. More of this sky is falling BS. You know, eventually something is going to be a real problem, and I won't believe you. You can only cry wolf so many times.

Sometime we do. Abetting criminals is also a crime.

We get it swake, you have a sad because Trump got elected.  Deal with it.  Life is a whole lot bigger than Donald Trump and who the POTUS is.  Brown shirts aren’t going to go house to house rounding up brown people, mooslims, Jews, and teh gheys.  Do you remember the biggest fear of redneck ‘Merca with Obama in the WH was his minions going house to house rounding up firearms and ammo?  Didn’t happen.  

I think we can agree both candidates had a ton of character flaws.  Trying to claim one is less flawed than the other is a fool’s errand.

Quit blaming white racist supporters for Trump being in office and go apeshit on your party which tilted the playing field in Hillary’s favor for nomination because it was “her turn”.  I honestly cannot say if Bernie could have beaten Trump or not.  Young, handsome, and dynamic was the successful formula which lead to Democrat control of the White House from ’61 to ’63, ’93 to 2001, and 2009 to 2017.  Don’t tell me there’s not someone in the wings who fits that description in the Democratic party.

Back to the implications of a Trump presidency as the thread title states:

It does appear Trump is softening his rhetoric from the campaign.  For starters, I’m encouraged he doesn’t intend to run a circle-jerk investigation of the Clintons.  This along with some other comments which are coming out gives me hope he will be a moderate.  After all, he was a New York liberal before he was a conservative.

His cabinet selections and other appointments do seem a bit odd.  If I were going to offer Ben Carson any job in my administration, it would be more in line with his expertise.  Oh I dunno, maybe Surgeon General since he does have a degree in medicine and practiced medicine.  I do agree with swake’s take on Nikki Haley being a puzzling pick as our UN ambassador.  Perhaps this is all a gambit on not wanting “lifers” with the inside track on jobs but rather people who might approach that job with a willingness to be flexible.  Or perhaps there is something he sees in each individual which makes them ideal for a job that we don’t.  It’s not like evaluating skills and delegating responsibility to the right people is something new to him.  He has run a rather large business empire for 40+ years so I would give him credit for having some idea on how to staff up.

My personal hope is we will look back and find he ended up being pretty middle of the road.  I’m at least willing to wait and see how his policy and staffing decisions play out.  He’s been elected, we really don’t have much more choice than that, do we?  I don’t care to walk around all balled up for the next four years because my guy lost.

Ken Starr spent years and many millions of dollars to investigate all those claims against Bill and found nothing he could even charge Bill with, much less Hillary. All he found was the Bill lied on a deposition in a civil case. So there's nothing there to abet.

Trump paid off Ivana in their divorce settlement to kill the rape allegation she made under oath in her deposition and then had the records sealed. Trump said on tape he liked to go into the dressing rooms of his parents and check out the hot naked girls. Five girls from Miss Teen USA verified that he had done that to them, and some of them were naked and as young s 15.

Samantha Jane Power, UN Ambassador

- Born in London, Raised in Ireland, immigrated to the US and lived in Pittsburgh and Atlanta before attending Yale,, going overseas, attending Harvard, etc.
- BA from Yale in history
- JD from Harvard Law
- international journalist, very well traveled
- Published author and Pulitzer prize winner on issues of human rights and foreign affairs
- Founding Executive Director of the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School
- Anna Lindh Professor of Practice of Global Leadership and Public Policy at Harvard University
- Adviser on international affairs to US Senator Obama
- Presidential director of human rights to the UN


That seems like a pretty good resume to be a UN ambassador, no?  I'm not saying this SC woman will be a poor job, just a bizzaro pick. It just seems you would want someone with some experience, interest, or idea of what they are getting into. I hope she does really well, and I don't see a serious concern or flags on her personally, just a very strange appointment.  Like appointing me to the Supreme Court or Patric to head the Department of Energy.

Of course, Carson to HUD makes no sense either. The guy has as much knowledge on urban development as I do on brain surgery.

Yet he's not in jail. Are you going to spend just as much time and money howling at the moon. Or are prosecutes just dumber than you?

Do you remember the biggest fear of redneck ‘Merca with Obama in the WH was his minions going house to house rounding up firearms and ammo?  Didn’t happen.  

Perhaps they didn't want a White Nationalist as the top advisor to the President. Nor a science denying racist as AG that wants to evict all 11 million illegals from this country and wants to end LEGAL immigration. Or not have as the top person over domestic policy transition a man employed by a designated anti-gay hate group. Or someone over environmental policy that thinks that more greenhouse gasses are good. Or a often confused doctor with zero qualifications over housing, or Mary freaking Fallon over Interior. ......

Give it six months, it's going to be damn hard to find an admitted Trump voter. He's already projected to lose the popular vote by 2.5 million votes, the polls weren't really that wrong except in certainly swing states, and some people are finding irregularities in those states electronic voting machines in certain areas. I hope we haven't been hacked. Or hacked more than Russia already did to elect this orange disaster.

No. The groups always assimilate. The larger mass pulls them in and we change them, as they change us marginally in their direction. It is inevitable.
I thought my point was clear - this isn't anything new. It is ugly, hateful, and unnecessary. If anything, it is counter productive and encourages the group being persecuted to avoid natives, and thus delay assimilation.

This isn't a real issue. Assimilation is as old as America. There is no reason to believe a 300 year trend will suddenly stop.  People for 300 years have argued that we have to stop the immigrants because they will never assimilate. They were all wrong. You're wrong too.  So don't pretend racism and bigotry is a good thing because it helps bind America together.

I wanted Warren to run and I think she would have won. I think she will run in four years.

Evidently you weren't clear enough.

You have misread me too.

Additionally, even in large countries that are multi-lingual, a dominant language takes hold. See, for example, all of Europe - where over time the nations merged on a common language in spite of most countries having several native tongues.  Also in China, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, Russia and all over Africa. Basically, anywhere people are a common language eventually dominates. Mono-linguistics is a huge weakness for Americans, not a strength. According to most scientific analysis, we are actually held back in many regards because of it (speaking more than one language increases your cognitive abilities such as problem-solving, creativity, and memory (http://www.gli.northwestern.edu/learn-languages/benefits-of-multilingualism/)).

I wasn't trying to accuse you specifically, it was a rhetorical device for anyone who may read the statement.

Shoot, I'm just hoping travel between the new districts will be allowed.

If not, I'm pleased to know that most likely, with Oklahoma's voting record, we won't be part of district 12 or 13.

I expect that:
Net Neutrality will die
The new overtime rules will be stopped
Pot legalization is done with
Transgendered Rights are done
Gay Rights rules against discrimination are done
We will have trade wars with China and Mexico at least hurting the economy and driving up illegal immigration
We will have some level of mass deportations
The Dream Act is done
Increasing the minimum wage will not happen
Unions will further be diminished by attacks by Federal rules and laws
We will have mass surveillance of Muslims and groups like BLM
Civil rights will be badly eroded by the Justice Department, hate crimes laws will be overturned
Taxes on the wealthy and corporations will go way down
Income inequality will skyrocket
The deficit will grow at an ugly rate
Regulation of banks and Wall Street will be greatly curtailed
The Federal Reserve's independence will end
Millions of people will lose healthcare
healthcare costs will skyrocket
We will be in recession within 18 months
China's claim the South China Sea will be allowed
Global Warming will accelerate to an unstoppable rate of heating


It's very possible:
Roe v Wade will be overturned
Gay Marriage will be overturned
Medicaid will be ended and replaced by state block grants
"Investment" accounts for Social Security will be allowed
NATO may die
Russia may invade the Baltic States and Ukraine without consequences
Legal Immigration will be massively restrained
Native Rights acts will be overturned including casinos and possibly sovereignty
We will enter a depression within 24 months
Trump will be impeached for financial self dealing
Trump will be impeached for sexual crimes

But Obama never said he was going to take anyone's guns away, never appointed anyone with a legacy of trying to take someones guns away, and never took any steps in an attempt to take anyone's guns away.

I believe Obama and many others would like to take away assault looking weapons but realize it isn't going to happen.  How far that may extend to hand guns and regular hunting rifles I don't know.

I don't understand the focus on assault rifles. Sure, several high profile crimes involve them but so many more lives have been lost due to handguns, yet no one has proposed limits on them.

Deleted...  

Short version, almost all of Trump's team want more power to big government, care little for civil liberties, are pro-fake news, advocate conspiracy theories, and are long term power brokers elevated to new heights.

I expect that:
Net Neutrality will die- I don’t know enough about this to know if that is good or bad or what it truly is.
The new overtime rules will be stopped-
Pot legalization is done with- Maybe as a national initiative, which needs to happen but here we go again with state’s rights (which is how gay marriage was being done prior to the SCOTUS ruling)
Transgendered Rights are done- Ruled as equal protection with a 5/4 court.  I don’t see this changing.
Gay Rights rules against discrimination are done- Again, equal protection, not going to happen
We will have trade wars with China and Mexico at least hurting the economy and driving up illegal immigration- quite possibly depending on how misguided his trade ideas are or what sort of manufacturing he is thinking we should bring back on shore.
We will have some level of mass deportations- This is bluff and bluster, these are undocumented aliens, we don’t know where many of them are at any given time.  I suspect if he is re-elected to a second term, he will end up doing some sort of Reagan amnesty during second term.  I seriously doubt he will be any more aggressive than Obama on deportations, especially without the cooperation of larger metro areas.
The Dream Act is done Possibly for now
Increasing the minimum wage will not happen Will never happen under any GOP admin, but can be done state by state.  Do note that Obama failed to do this with a Congress in his favor from 2009 to 2011.
Unions will further be diminished by attacks by Federal rules and laws   This does not particularly bother me.  Unions had their place and time, their legacy cushy pension funds brought many companies to the brink of extinction.  Strong unions like UAW aren’t going anywhere though. 
We will have mass surveillance of Muslims and groups like BLM I don’t buy this any more than what the NSA, CIA, FBI already do.  If they have reason to suspect someone is connected to terrorist cells they will watch them.  They don’t have near the manpower to spy on every Muslim in this country.
Civil rights will be badly eroded by the Justice Department, hate crimes laws will be overturned Will never happen.  No reason to.
Taxes on the wealthy and corporations will go way down Lower corporate taxes might result in companies bringing some operations back on-shore and repatriating money into the U.S. economy.  Simply the tax codes which are the true cause of such low effective tax rates on the uber wealthy.
Income inequality will skyrocket Income inequality didn’t improve under Obama. His Council of Economic Advisors makes such claims but they revolve around tax breaks, in increase in the EIC, and people getting subsidies for health insurance via the ACA.  That’s not improving their wage, it’s more subsidy.  I’m optimistic Trump might have economic policies which sees the actual wages of the middle class rise, not a complicated scheme of subsidies.
The deficit will grow at an ugly rate This remains to be seen.  Trump talked good game on attacking debt and the deficit.  Let’s see what he does the first two years with a fairly stable economy.
Regulation of banks and Wall Street will be greatly curtailed Let’s hope not, but do keep in mind every administration is cozy with Wall Street and has been for decades.
The Federal Reserve's independence will end I really don’t see this happening, some of your notions point almost to fascism which is as overused as racism these days. Obama was supposedly a fascist to many.
Millions of people will lose healthcare Millions may be put into some sort of state plan depending on how many insurers can afford to stay on the exchanges in the coming years.  This has less to do with Trump than the cold hard economic realities which too many people ignored in the run up to Obamacare.
healthcare costs will skyrocket They already have thanks to the ACA.  This is a fact.
We will be in recession within 18 months There’s a good chance of this simply due to the cycle, regardless of who would have won
China's claim the South China Sea will be allowed Sorry haven’t really followed this issue
Global Warming will accelerate to an unstoppable rate of heating That makes the assumption that mankind can have absolute control over climate change, it cannot.


It's very possible:
Roe v Wade will be overturned It has survived intact for 43 years and will continue to.  I’ve not seen another case brought to SCOTUS which even remotely had a chance of seeing it overturned.  Not even with the 5/4 conservative-leaning split most recently.
Gay Marriage will be overturned I don’t see this, it’s been ruled Constitutional with that same 5/4 court
Medicaid will be ended and replaced by state block grants There may well be a better way to fund and administer Medicaid, I’m not certain this is a bad thing for states to manage
"Investment" accounts for Social Security will be allowed Pipe dream of the neocons, won’t happen
NATO may die doubtful
Russia may invade the Baltic States and Ukraine without consequences Entirely possible though Putin is not easily predictable
Legal Immigration will be massively restrained I highly doubt this.  Our economy depends on a certain level of immigration.  The channels might become a bit slower for immigrants from certain nations but I don’t see there ever being an outright ban on Muslim immigrants.
Native Rights acts will be overturned including casinos and possibly sovereignty Not going to happen without causing serious unrest and there’s no reason to do this at all
We will enter a depression within 24 months See comment above about recession
Trump will be impeached for financial self dealing I would hope he’s smarter than this
Trump will be impeached for sexual crimes Perhaps we would finally figure out if there’s any veracity to claims against him, we didn’t seem to care when it came to a previous POTUS

Some of your notions ignore checks and balances and the rest seem to indicate you believe Trump could act as a dictator or he would rule through blind rage for all minorities.  I believe you are far more worried than necessary over Trump’s policies.

Anything is certainly possible but let’s keep in mind there is a Congress, Supreme Court, and 300,000,000+ citizens to answer to.

I expect that:
Net Neutrality will die
The new overtime rules will be stopped
Pot legalization is done with
Transgendered Rights are done
Gay Rights rules against discrimination are done
We will have trade wars with China and Mexico at least hurting the economy and driving up illegal immigration
We will have some level of mass deportations
The Dream Act is done
Increasing the minimum wage will not happen
Unions will further be diminished by attacks by Federal rules and laws
We will have mass surveillance of Muslims and groups like BLM
Civil rights will be badly eroded by the Justice Department, hate crimes laws will be overturned
Taxes on the wealthy and corporations will go way down
Income inequality will skyrocket
The deficit will grow at an ugly rate
Regulation of banks and Wall Street will be greatly curtailed
The Federal Reserve's independence will end
Millions of people will lose healthcare
healthcare costs will skyrocket
We will be in recession within 18 months
China's claim the South China Sea will be allowed
Global Warming will accelerate to an unstoppable rate of heating


It's very possible:
Roe v Wade will be overturned
Gay Marriage will be overturned
Medicaid will be ended and replaced by state block grants
"Investment" accounts for Social Security will be allowed
NATO may die
Russia may invade the Baltic States and Ukraine without consequences
Legal Immigration will be massively restrained
Native Rights acts will be overturned including casinos and possibly sovereignty
We will enter a depression within 24 months
Trump will be impeached for financial self dealing
Trump will be impeached for sexual crimes

Race relations weren’t exactly stellar under Obama.  As of a month ago 54% of Americans believed that.  The media does not help with it’s 24/7 fascination with racial discord but Obama missed key opportunities to bring people together after Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, Freddy Gray, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/05/politics/obama-race-relations-poll/

I do note that whites (57%) believe more than blacks (40% which I still find significant with a black president) that racial relations got worse under Obama.  That might explain why Trump energized a group of Americans who felt left behind the last eight years. 

Again people, let’s focus on our similarities instead of our differences.

What is the inference about the people who voted for the corrupt white heterosexual female who assisted in covering up multiple sexual assaults by a previous POTUS?

Ken Starr spent years and many millions of dollars to investigate all those claims against Bill and found nothing he could even charge Bill with, much less Hillary. All he found was the Bill lied on a deposition in a civil case. So there's nothing there to abet.

Trump paid off Ivana in their divorce settlement to kill the rape allegation she made under oath in her deposition and then had the records sealed. Trump said on tape he liked to go into the dressing rooms of his parents and check out the hot naked girls. Five girls from Miss Teen USA verified that he had done that to them, and some of them were naked and as young s 15.

I hope the Democratic Party can do better than Warren.

Mr. tell your constituents one thing and vote another Jim Jones would be no better.  My father used to attend Jones' local meetings.

There was an injunction yesterday on the new overtime law.

Not a big deal. I applaud them in this case as a disbeliever in minimum wage laws actually helping people.

That's because Obama didn't hide racism under the rug. He had an open discussion about it.

Huge deal actually. I manage this daily, do you?

Most definitely. For a living my entire life.

It was a stupid rule, and caused more problems than it could have ever solved.

Better than Warren? What do you mean by that? She's one hell of a politician in my book.

Salary gets abused and causes high turnover on the low end. That's a fact.

How exactly is that the government's problem? Are you forcing people to work for you?

Because the government exist to protect the people, not your assumption on what might be more profitable on an Excel sheet in the short term. Government is a check on business and most of the time they get it right.

To each their own. How many truly believe Warren would have fared any better than Clinton. Media would have been just as insulting to the people that voted for Trump in the end. I don't really see her pulling any more from the minority crowd.

Protect them from low wages. Where exactly does it stipulate that again?

This is wrong on so many levels. Government is not a check on business.

I don't think you should avoid putting someone on a ballot because she's a blunt woman. Don't know who runs your house but blunt women are highly effective people. They get crap done, stick to the task and don't pander around like Trump types. Count me out on the good ole' boy network, I want effieceny.

Absolutely is a check. Do you think regulations exist for fun?

New overtime law protects a business from making someone earning $455/week from working 70 hours. That's $6.50 per hour and it happens way, way more than you think.

And you think Warren fits that description?

More bluster than bluntness. Given your predisposition to labor laws, I can see how you are totally on board with Warren. When she writes a law to actually put teeth in the STOCK Act I'll believe she is truly for the little guy. Until then, she's just one more D.C. blowhard that will say whatever it is she thinks will help her get elected.

Like I said, to each their own.

I know, I had a position that would have been effected at one point in my life. I was a willing participant in the marketplace. The government is acting not as a check on business, but as a check on people that want to work. Stupid if you ask me. If I offer $40K/year for  CPA to work 80 hours a week and they take it, why is that a crime. They are medelling in a societal problem that isn't a problem. If a business (like you describe) has problems retaining talent, well that's on them. Why are they waiting for the government to do something. Pretty poor business practice if you ask me.

Better than Warren? What do you mean by that? She's one hell of a politician in my book.

We've already implemented hourly for the managers that were salary in stores. It has way, way more positives than negatives. Happier employees, fair wage on an hourly average, more flexibility and less turnover.

The issue is less the new CPA making $40K and more the assistant manager making $23K on salary. If someone wants to debate the low end should be more like $750/week then ok, but $455/week is manipulating folks.

Are your managers still working the same abusive hours but just getting paid for them?  Do you pay your beginning hourly workers significantly more than minimum wage?

If you feel so strongly about The $23K salary, why weren't "you" paying them a salary more commensurate with their contributions? 

One hell of a politician but not one I would like to have elected.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that we must have different "books".

Then you read your book and I'll read mine.

They aren't working abusive hours but they are getting their fair shake after 40 hours and nobody has a chance of working on salary at $455/week like I had to. And that's a good thing.

Compare that map to the most economically productive areas in the United States .... Raleigh-Durham, NYC, Silicon Valley, San Francisco, Austin, Atlanta, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, Washington DC...

Strangely, for blue areas being famously overregulated job destroyers they sure do produce a lot of extremely high value, knowledge sector activity that drives the American economy.

*end my only political post ever on Tulsa Now* back to urban revitalization.

I have nothing against Haley, I don't agree with her much, but that's ok. I think she would have been a solid appointment to a position that she was qualified for, something that she dealt with as Governor. Ambassador to the UN just makes no sense. Like Conan said, Carson would probably be a decent Surgeon General, though I do think he's a bit of a loon, but as the head of HUD he makes no sense. He doesn't even have much leadership experience.

Good for your formerly salaried workers.  I agree that salaried workers can be abused but that is a function of management and the need of the abused to have a job, not the government. 

How about your beginning hourly workers?  Do they make a living wage?  Your workers, not the industry average.

I'd say roughly 80% of my workers make a living wage by the hour for what the standard in Oklahoma is. The ones that don't are usually always high school or college students working part time for a little extra cash.

Which is why minimum wage is viewed as entry level or part time pay, for those looking to make extra cash while going to school or as some extra income for a young family.

Based on the economics of it, could you maintain the same menu prices while, say, doubling your payroll costs or even raising them by 50%?

This is always asked in a hypothetical, but you literally are the only one on here qualified to speak to that.  TIA.

Adding to this, the one thing I disagree with is over 40 hours being overtime. In my opinion it should be over 45 hours. And the salary minimum should be closer to $40-$42k instead of $46k.

I'd say roughly 80% of my workers make a living wage by the hour for what the standard in Oklahoma is. The ones that don't are usually always high school or college students working part time for a little extra cash.

No, you have to increase prices with the labor cost but raising prices doesn't hurt the customer as much as low wages hurt the employee, customer service and the company due to turnover. I can have all of the personal opinions I want, but there is a very strong argument that raising wages helps everyone involved as a whole from a business perspective.

We've had to increase our prices this year for delivery to pay our drivers reimbursement (even the bike drivers who spend money on their bikes, even though that's our choice and not required) and raise prices on food because of rising labor cost. It's very, very tough to get quality workers these days unless you stay competitive on wages.

The blessing this year has been that food cost have come down which takes some of the heat off of the rising labor cost. When it comes to managing the cost for us you have to keep food cost and labor cost at around 50% to make a profit. Making a profit isn't only important for the company but it also helps keep our wages competitive because 25% of a store profit each period (every four weeks) goes back to the store management.

I fully understand the example early about the accountant at $40K, but the new regulations are helping us long term. We went from salary to hourly three months ago and our turnover has decreased drastically with management. In my particular industry, that pays dividends over time. I know the response will be that you don't need the government to tell you that but in food service it's all about instant gratification with profits which is often at the expense of the employee.

Why do you pick 45 hours?

Eating food mostly produced in red areas.

According to several accounts Mary Fallin was passed over for Interior Secretary after an “awkward” interview.  I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that one:

“Well, I did some interior design work before I was Lieutenant Governor, but I found it just really wasn’t for me.”

If I have heard correctly, it sounds as if Trump might be interested in selling off some public lands.  Or at least at one time he did.  He’s used to being on all sides of an issue so I’m sure he will before he won’t before he does.

Trump expected to pick oil drilling advocate, climate-change skeptic to run Interior Department
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-trump-expected-to-pick-oil-drilling-advocate-to-run-interior-department-source-2016-12

Basically someone to open up tribal land and national parks to oil drilling.

Does anyone know why Trump is so mad about the statements from the FBI, CIA, State Department, Homeland Security, Army Intelligence and others that it appears Russia hacked US political parties in an attempt to influence the election?  It appears all the evidence points to Russia, and no one is presenting evidence or realistic alternatives.  No one is saying Trump was in on it, and no one is denying that Russia greatly prefers Trump to Clinton.

So why start bashing our own intelligence services and ignoring the best evidence in order to side with Russia?

Team Trump is falling over themselves - but the USA messed with other countries elections!  But the FBI wouldn't say they are positive!  But all they did was expose Hillary for who she was!  But the intelligence community was wrong in Iraq!  These statements are being made by Team Trump and Russian politicians at the same time.  And they are arguably true... but skipping over the entire point:

A foreign power repeatedly hacks a US political party in an attempt to influence a US election and gain leaders who will have a more favorable position. 

Foreign interference in US elections is an existential threat to democracy.  I don't care who it is supposed to benefit. To me, manipulating the election is even more hostile than the rebels in Yemen lobbying antiquated missiles at our navy ships in the gulf.  Have things gotten so partisan that it's OK so long as it helps your candidate?

Does anyone know why Trump is so mad about the statements from the FBI, CIA, State Department, Homeland Security, Army Intelligence and others that it appears Russia hacked US political parties in an attempt to influence the election?  It appears all the evidence points to Russia, and no one is presenting evidence or realistic alternatives.  No one is saying Trump was in on it, and no one is denying that Russia greatly prefers Trump to Clinton.

Foreign interference in US elections is an existential threat to democracy.  I don't care who it is supposed to benefit. To me, manipulating the election is even more hostile than the rebels in Yemen lobbying antiquated missiles at our navy ships in the gulf.  Have things gotten so partisan that it's OK so long as it helps your candidate?

Which world do you think Trumple Thinskin wants to live in? His win was just a Yuge as his hands.

That is the internet winner for today.  Carry on...

I'm really trying to get development threads going and let these politics threads languish, but good God...

Trump appointed a man to Secratary of State who has worked for Exxon for 40+ years and has been given awards of friendship from Vladimir Putin. He has zero public experience and has operated in an entirely different world.  When there are serious concerns that Trump is Putin's man, this is not helping.  If I were any of our allies on the border with Russia - I'd be terrified.  If I were an ally in the middle east, where Russia is suddenly relevant there, I'd be terrified. What chance does Ukraine have of keeping its territory now?

And... he appointed to the head of the Department of Energy a person who forgot the name of the agency when trying to argue it should be eliminated.  The current head is a nuclear physicist, which make sense because the department is in charge of all nuclear materials as well as research on nuclear weapons.  Rick Perry's last job was Dancing with the Stars.
http://time.com/4598910/rick-perry-department-energy-oops-gaffe/


No hyperbole:  many of these picks could have been made by an SNL skit, and people would have laughed and laughed and laughed.

I'm really trying to get development threads going and let these politics threads languish, but good God...

Trump appointed a man to Secratary of State who has worked for Exxon for 40+ years and has been given awards of friendship from Vladimir Putin. He has zero public experience and has operated in an entirely different world.  When there are serious concerns that Trump is Putin's man, this is not helping.  If I were any of our allies on the border with Russia - I'd be terrified.  If I were an ally in the middle east, where Russia is suddenly relevant there, I'd be terrified. What chance does Ukraine have of keeping its territory now?

And... he appointed to the head of the Department of Energy a person who forgot the name of the agency when trying to argue it should be eliminated.  The current head is a nuclear physicist, which make sense because the department is in charge of all nuclear materials as well as research on nuclear weapons.  Rick Perry's last job was Dancing with the Stars.
http://time.com/4598910/rick-perry-department-energy-oops-gaffe/


No hyperbole:  many of these picks could have been made by an SNL skit, and people would have laughed and laughed and laughed.

(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/829042/thumbs/o-ANIMAL-HOUSE-facebook.jpg)

Drinking Ice Tea out of a Jack Daniels bottle.

I'm waiting for all the people who promised they were going to Canada to go.  Actually, we are still waiting for some who promised to go to Canada when Bush II was elected to go.

 ;D

Being that's John Belushi, and knowing what he was like during filming of that movie, that could very well be real JD in that bottle.

Being that's John Belushi, and knowing what he was like during filming of that movie, that could very well be real JD in that bottle.

THEY TOOK THE BAR!!!!  THEY TOOK THE WHOLE F#CKING BAR!!!

I’ve owned a horse and Yorkshire Terrier.  I believe that would make me imminently qualified to be Trump’s Car Czar or Surgeon General but I’m not getting any calls yet.  Oh wait, I didn’t donate millions to his campaign.  Damn it all!

I didn't make it up, but I am using it as much as possible.

No, you have to give him a chance.  Isn't it obvious?  By appointing life-long political insiders along with big executives and business tycoons, they are going to reign in some of the harms done to this country by political insiders, big banks, and oligarchs. 

Personally, I think his new appointment for the Department of Not Eating My Baby is right in line with many of his other picks:

No, you have to give him a chance.  Isn't it obvious?  By appointing life-long political insiders along with big executives and business tycoons, they are going to reign in some of the harms done to this country by political insiders, big banks, and oligarchs. 

Personally, I think his new appointment for the Department of Not Eating My Baby is right in line with many of his other picks:

(https://retrieverman.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/dingo.jpg)

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
Based on the tremendous cost and cost overruns of the Lockheed Martin F-35, I have asked Boeing to price-out a comparable F-18 Super Hornet!
4:26 PM - 22 Dec 2016
  13,252 13,252 Retweets   51,861 51,861 likes

And when I'm driving, no one is actively competing with me to see who can kill the other one first.

Today the idiot tweeting

For someone supposedly hawkish and pro-jobs, he sure has been sending a lot of defense industry's stocks into death spirals.

"Republicans claim they want to 'drain the swamp,' but the night before the new Congress gets sworn in, the House GOP has eliminated the only independent ethics oversight of their actions," the California lawmaker said in a statement. "Evidently, ethics are the first casualty of the new Republican Congress."

First act of the new Congress:

Kill the independent ethics investigation committee.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/03/house-gop-votes-to-gut-independent-ethics-office.html

Ryan and Kevin McArthy were against the change, but it passed with flying colors.  Essentially, instead of an independent group investigating and making conclusions on ethics complaints, the House will police itself. Back to the way things were before 2008 - when the new panel took over and sent several members of Congress to jail for corruption, bribery, etc.

I really struggle to think of a good reason to do this...

Decision reversed after Trump blasts them.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-03/house-gop-votes-to-strip-ethics-office-of-independent-status (https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-01-03/house-gop-votes-to-strip-ethics-office-of-independent-status)

Ford Motor, which had been bashed by Donald Trump for shipping jobs outside the U.S., announced Tuesday that it will cancel production of a $1.6 billion plant in Mexico, and will instead invest $700 million in Flat Rock, Michigan.

The U.S. auto giant said it will add 700 direct new jobs in Flat Rock to produce high-tech electrified and autonomous vehicles, plus the Ford Mustang and Lincoln Continental.

Ford had originally planned to build its Ford Focus in San Luis Potosi, Mexico. The company said it will continue to build its Focus at an existing plant in Hermosillo, Mexico, to improve company profitability.

Ford Chairman Bill Ford Jr. said he spoke with President-elect Trump on Tuesday morning to tell him of the decision to invest in the U.S. and cancel the Mexico plant, according to Reuters.

"We're also encouraged by the pro-growth policies that President-elect Trump and the new Congress have indicated that they will pursue," Ford President and CEO Mark Fields said in a statement.

A source told Reuters there were no negotiations between Trump and the company.

In Twitter posts, Trump claimed credit for Ford's announcement.

During the final weeks of the presidential campaign, Trump slammed what he called Ford's "horrible" plans to move all small car production to Mexico within three years.

"It used to be cars were made in Flint and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico," he said in a September speech in Flint, Michigan. "Now the cars are made in Mexico, and you can't drink the water in Flint. That's not good." He was referring to the lead water crisis in the the Michigan city.

Trump also claimed that he helped stop Ford from moving an entire factory from Kentucky to Mexico.

It is not clear how many jobs would have been impacted if the low-selling MKC had moved to Mexico.

Earlier Tuesday, Trump attacked General Motors on Twitter, saying the auto giant is making a Chevy Cruze model in Mexico and then sending them to U.S. dealers tax free. Trump had previously bragged about a deal with United Technologies unit Carrier to keep some jobs in Indiana.

Ford's changes are a part its plan to become an auto and mobility company. The company said it will invest $4.5 billion in electrified vehicles by 2020.

"As more and more consumers around the world become interested in electrified vehicles, Ford is committed to being a leader in providing consumers with a broad range of electrified vehicles, services and solutions that make people's lives better," Fields said in the company's announcement.

The electrified vehicles announced on Tuesday include, fully electric small SUV, coming by 2020 and a hybrid version of its best-selling F-150 pickup.

Ford CEO Mark Fields said the company decided in recent weeks not to build the plant because of declining demand for small cars in the U.S

It was a much wider backlash than Trump.   Unless he orchestrated this with the House to get some Brownie Points...!   And we all know what he would want to be doing with Brownie Points....

To be sure, there may be some who give Trump's Twitter account credit for the course correction. But though it surely had an impact on some of the members, Trump's tweets merely rode the crest of public opinion against the changes, rather than leading it. It is a mistake to give Trump too much credit, just as it is a mistake to take his Drain the Swamp plan seriously.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/03/opinions/house-ethics-drutman-opinion/

To be sure, there may be some who give Trump's Twitter account credit for the course correction. But though it surely had an impact on some of the members, Trump's tweets merely rode the crest of public opinion against the changes, rather than leading it. It is a mistake to give Trump too much credit, just as it is a mistake to take his Drain the Swamp plan seriously.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/03/opinions/house-ethics-drutman-opinion/

And to point out another act of copying, the article also references the then Democratic party wanting to "drain the swamp" too.

Both parties failed on both issues, for now

Trump will ask Congress, not Mexico, to pay for border wall

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/

Trump will ask Congress, not Mexico, to pay for border wall

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/border-wall-house-republicans-donald-trump-taxpayers/

They warned us that if a majority of Americans voted for Hillary Clinton, we would get historic corruption in Washington.

They were right!

In the last 24 hours Trump has:

- again denied all US intelligence agencies in favor of believing a wanted man and Vladimir Putin and makes up reasons why... but it sounds so truthy!  Why is he asking Twitter about US intelligent reports that he has access to and for which he can literally summon the author and ask questions?  Oh right, propoganda purposes.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/intel-report-says-us-identifies-go-betweens-who-gave-emails-to-wikileaks/index.html

- again used his twitter in an attempt to interfere with private enterprise (this time Toyota moving a plant from Canada to Mexico)

- advised all US political ambassadors they will be terminated immediately so the spots can be filled with Trump donors (the customary allowance for family circumstances, emergencies, or ongoing business have been revoked)

- pushed to defund Planned Parenthood's sexual health services (abortion is already not funded by Federal Law).  So we decrease abortions by refusing to provide birth control...  (the Planned Parenthood thing is a political obsession)

- formally admitted that the US will pay to build a border wall that experts say won't do much to address the actual issue (but we will totally get paid back). He now refers to the border wall as "the Great Wall (for sake of speed),"  ignoring both the fact that the Great Wall failed to keep out invaders and that typing "for the sake of speed" was far longer than just typing "border wall."

- took time to mock Arnold Schwarzenegger's "Apprentice" ratings and brag about a meeting with the editor of Vogue, he apparently still doesn't have time for answers from intelligence briefings...


Trump has not mentioned year end reports showing
- Unemployment below 5%
- Real wages rising at increasing rates
- Corporate profits up
- Stock markets near record highs
- 2016 saw fewer terror attacks on US targets, far fewer military deaths, etc. etc. etc,

How long after Trump is sworn in before he starts pointing these things out and taking credit?

How long after Trump is sworn in before he starts pointing these things out and taking credit?

Well, he's "not a politician" right, so probably just a shade under when a standard politician would.

Well played, H!

How long after Trump is sworn in before he starts pointing these things out and taking credit?

Some celebrity gave a speech at some awards show and said people in power that use their platform to lob insults at everyone set a bad example and have the effect of telling everyone in the country that it is OK to simply insult anyone you disagree with.   Trump reacts by insulting the celebrity on twitter.

How can anyone miss the humor in that?

Some celebrity gave a speech at some awards show and said people in power that use their platform to lob insults at everyone set a bad example and have the effect of telling everyone in the country that it is OK to simply insult anyone you disagree with.   Trump reacts by insulting the celebrity on twitter.

How can anyone miss the humor in that?

Some celebrity gave a speech at some awards show and said people in power that use their platform to lob insults at everyone set a bad example and have the effect of telling everyone in the country that it is OK to simply insult anyone you disagree with.   Trump reacts by insulting the celebrity on twitter.

How can anyone miss the humor in that?

The humor was Ms. Streep calling on Hollyweird to save the country.

There was one performance this year that stunned me. It sank its hooks in my heart. Not because it was good. There was nothing good about it. But it was effective and it did its job. It made its intended audience laugh and show their teeth. It was that moment when the person asking to sit in the most respected seat in our country imitated a disabled reporter, someone he outranked in privilege, power, and the capacity to fight back. It kind of broke my heart when I saw it. I still can't get it out of my head because it wasn't in a movie. It was real life.

And this instinct to humiliate, when it's modeled by someone in the public platform, by someone powerful, it filters down into everybody's life, because it kind of gives permission for other people to do the same thing. Disrespect invites disrespect. Violence incites violence. When the powerful use their position to bully others, we all lose.

This brings me to the press. We need the principled press to hold power to account, to call them on the carpet for every outrage.That's why our founders enshrined the press and its freedoms in our constitution. So I only ask the famously well-heeled Hollywood Foreign Press and all of us in our community to join me in supporting the committee to protect journalists. Because we're going to need them going forward. And they'll need us to safeguard the truth.

No.  Here let me help you:

We need the principled press to hold power to account, to call them on the carpet for every outrage. That’s why our founders enshrined the press and its freedoms in our Constitution. So I only ask the famously well-heeled Hollywood foreign press and all of us in our community, to join me in supporting the Committee to Protect Journalists, because we’re going to need them going forward, and they’ll need us to safeguard the truth.

The humor was Ms. Streep calling on Hollyweird to save the country.

God help us all...

Crowley has been accused of plagiarism before. In 1999, Slate reported a column by Crowley in the Wall Street Journal mirrored a 1988 article in Commentary, the neoconservative magazine.
"Had we known of the parallels, we would not have published the article," a Journal editor’s note said at the time. Crowley denied the charge at the time, saying, "I did not, nor would I ever, use material from a source without citing it."

As a reality TV star, it works out great to just write off ridiculous statements.  Its funny, it keeps the nonexistent plot as an always moving target, and people watch just to see what happens next.  Its why Haward Stern got popular.

When he said he was worried about leaks, we thought he meant national security, not his depends...

Actually, the allegations state he was the 'receiver'....

Now it's take and take takeover, takeover
It's all take and never give
All these trumped up towers
They're just golden showers
Where are people supposed to live?

You can arm yourself, alarm yourself
But there's nowhere you can run
'Cause a man with a briefcase
Can steal more money
Than any man with a gun

Lol...The butt-hurt is still strong......

Ahhh...back to the old oral/anal fixations....


Butt what else would one expect from fans of the Pedophile in Chief ?


Today's umbrage about "fake news" from Russia - HA!!  So funny...if it wasn't so serious.  Sounds like fake birth certificate news...??

(http://i.giphy.com/26DOv0UKKzf2FPGKY.gif)

Wow.
He does love him some "gold" though

Lets pretend that the dossier is totally made up by some kid in Cleveland and that our intelligence services (as well as UK intelligence services) are too stupid to know the difference.  We can still take away information from the press conference:

1) Trump now says Russia probably did hack the DNC.  So it turns out they were right about that, but now that there is more information that appears negative for Trump, it is time to start attacking the intelligence services again.  An important nuisance that the Donald is missing:  the intelligence services didn't say the information was accurate.  They merely advised him that it exists. Still, the pattern of "attack if you feel threatened" remains strong.

Also worth noting that the CIA/FBI/NSA could not more stop this document from getting around than it could stop the fake news from the kids in Albania or the Hillary emails.

2) Again he reiterated that Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall.  Rather we are going to involuntarily loan the money to Mexico and force them to repay us sometime in the future through unknown means.  Basically - we are paying for it, but he still really wants Mexico to pay for it but doesn't know how to make that happen.

3) He is still obsessed with Hillary Clinton.  He brought her up several times in the press conference, out of context.  Usually, "do you think Hillary could do any better?"

4) Trump's man crush on Vladimir remains strong. 

5) He doesn't have any real plans.  Never, in a response to a reporters question, did he even hint that he had a real plan on anything.

6) He is an undignified donkey.  He cut people off, insulted people, and was generally more of an donkey to the media than a pissed off NFL coach.  That wasn't his campaign persona, that's who he is.

I think they are waiting for inauguration, then "Trump" up an impeachment case and get Pence into the job.

Lots of talk about Article 1, Section 9, clause 8, in particular Emoluments.  He can then make the case that business dealings are not profits from King, Prince, or Foreign State....

I don't know about that. I'm sure most Republicans in Congress would love to be rid of him as soon as possible, but Republican voters would be livid.

Chris Steele, the former MI6 agent behind the Trump/Russia Report is the man who brought down Sepp Blatter and FIFA with a former investigation

http://deadspin.com/the-spy-who-compiled-the-golden-showers-dossier-helped-1791144993

Meh, he’s a gun for hire and of course MI6 was where the WMD intel in Iraq came from in the first place and we all know how that turned out, right? 

So basically Bush was hosed on the WMD issue because Twitter didn’t exist yet for him to say: “FAKE NEWS! FAKE NEWS!”

I was waiting on the light at 101st and Sheridan and a newer model  dark blue Ford F250 diesel with a lift blew by me on the shoulder on the SE corner.

There was an enormous "TRUMP, make America great again" bumper sticker taking up 1/3 of the back window.

The driver floored the truck turning East.  Black diesel smoke billowed out, the rear tires chirped a bit going around the corner and some trash flew out of the bed of the truck.

This is what has gained control in the federal government.  It will appoint new Scotus, it will make decisions that our kids and grandkids will suffer through.

The United States has been Oklahoma'd.  The people who've been making decisions in Oklahoma's state government now have comrades running the country.

The implications are frightening.

While he continued his explanation, I had an internal conversation with myself about whether or not universal suffrage is a good idea.

I do not do well with a lack of facts or logic. When both the facts and logic are mangled, I have a mini strike.

Come on now...

I can find a ton of jack donkey Obama supporters, and even I'm smart enough not to link the two together to imply that is how Obama is going to be.

This line of thinking is just as low brow and childish as the ones you are criticizing displayed.

I was waiting on the light at 101st and Sheridan and a newer model  dark blue Ford F250 diesel with a lift blew by me on the shoulder on the SE corner.

There was an enormous "TRUMP, make America great again" bumper sticker taking up 1/3 of the back window.

The driver floored the truck turning East.  Black diesel smoke billowed out, the rear tires chirped a bit going around the corner and some trash flew out of the bed of the truck.

This is what has gained control in the federal government.  It will appoint new Scotus, it will make decisions that our kids and grandkids will suffer through.

The United States has been Oklahoma'd.  The people who've been making decisions in Oklahoma's state government now have comrades running the country.

The implications are frightening.

Actually, you really can't.  Except for being SOOO wrong on the 2nd Amendment, they are universally more educated, well read, thoughtful, tolerant, and open to a wider range of thought and opinions.  In other words - educated.

Well aren't you all special. You must be the most patronizing person I have ever met. Why don't you add that to the list too, because "they" are incredibly patronizing. And so incredibly sure of their superiority. And they are also incredibly adept at being pompous dicks. Geez, come on.

If you really believe/think this like this, well, I don't know really what to say about that. Thank god we have the chosen one's to show us the light.

Well, you all did elect Trump, so there's that....

You're right. Not one educated, enlightened person, with kindness in their heart voted for Trump.

You guys will believe anything.

There is nothing at all patronizing about stating facts.

No, wait...you are right...it's only educated, enlightened people who claim to be follower's of Christ that vote for an admitted pedophile.  Serial adulterer.  Thief who has stolen untold millions from people who did an honest day's work for him.  Called our POW's cowards.  Ridicules the handicapped.  Serial breaker of Federal immigration law - hiring literally thousands of undocumented workers, and paying millions in fines for that.  Repeatedly makes derisive, racist comments.  Implores supporters to violence.  Invites Russia to hack US government computers.  Can't find an American woman who would marry him....well, I can see why.   And this is just the short list....

Verbally attacks a Gold Star family...!!   Oh, but according to the RWRE, that's fine - it was only a Muslim who was blown up by a car bomb...

Yeah...it's all the good people on the right who voted for that.

Would love to know exactly how it is YOU resolve/rationalize all that in your mind?

As for believing anything... Whew!   Biggest Projection of the Year award goes to erfalf !!

The ridiculing of the handicapped journalist was the final straw for me, especially since my mother was handicapped and I was a HUGE advocate for rights for them.  If I ever run into Trump anywhere in person it would be difficult for me not to punch him right in the face.  He has a punchable face, much like Martin Shkreli.

And it wasn't the ridiculing that was the final straw.  It was his lying about doing it/not doing it.  He was absolutely mocking that guy.

He's a giant dooshrocket.

The ridiculing of the handicapped journalist was the final straw for me, especially since my mother was handicapped and I was a HUGE advocate for rights for them.  If I ever run into Trump anywhere in person it would be difficult for me not to punch him right in the face.  He has a punchable face, much like Martin Shkreli.

And it wasn't the ridiculing that was the final straw.  It was his lying about doing it/not doing it.  He was absolutely mocking that guy.

He's a giant dooshrocket.

I had the CNN "fake news" line parroted back to me the very same day as Trump's press conference.  The person thought the Russian Intel story was invented by CNN and......

....While he continued his explanation, I had an internal conversation with myself about whether or not universal suffrage is a good idea.

I do not do well with a lack of facts or logic. When both the facts and logic are mangled, I have a mini strike.

I had a guy telling me that facts and opinions are the same things and they're subject to our individual biases. I was gobsmacked.

Universal sufferage, indeed.

Meh, he’s a gun for hire and of course MI6 was where the WMD intel in Iraq came from in the first place and we all know how that turned out, right?

Initially, Steele was working on behalf of Trump’s Republican opponents and later for Democrats, but after Election Day, those employers were no longer interested. Instead, Steele began disseminating his findings to both British and American intelligence officials pro bono, as he reasoned that this matter was of national security concern for both parties cashing in with the sleazy tabloids.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-mi6-spy-troubed-findings-trump-worked-free-article-1.2946322

FIFY, because we know what an anachronism strong journalistic integrity is these days.

FIFY, because we know what an anachronism strong journalistic integrity is these days.

As an example (excuse the drift) here's how local TV stations reported news of police freaking out when a street person hopped into an undercover cop's car:


TULSA, Oklahoma - Tulsa Police took a suspect in custody in a possible attempted robbery. Officers responded to the QuikTrip at 51st and Harvard around 7:15 p.m. Monday, January 9, 2017.
Officers say a man hopped in the back seat of the detective's blue Ford and said, "take me somewhere." The door was unlocked, according to police.
The officer said the man refused to leave, so he called for backup.
"He told the officer to get out of the vehicle and to take him," said Sergeant C. Hardaway, Tulsa Police. "He said, 'take me, just take me with you.' And the officer felt like he was in fear, and the subject kept pounding his fists and just making like he was going to assault him.
http://www.newson6.com/story/34220677/tulsa-police-suspect-tries-to-rob-detective-in-unmarked-car


Officers responded to the QuikTrip near I-44 and South Harvard around 7:15 p.m. They say Cpl. D. Filak requested assistance over the radio after Anthony Haley opened the unlocked rear driver's side door, got in the backseat and refused commands to get out.
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/man-accused-of-jumping-into-backseat-of-unmarked-tpd-car-in-custody-allegedly-threatened-officer


But you cant beat another station's hysterical "hostage situation"

Man allegedly takes officer hostage
 by: Sara Whaley Updated: Jan 10, 2017 - 6:04 AM
TULSA, Okla. - Quick facts:
    Police arrested a man near the QuikTrip at 51st and Harvard.
    The man reportedly took an officer hostage in his unmarked car.
    He allegedly demanded the officer surrender the car; he was believed to be on PCP

And yet his supporters/apologists still dismiss this behavior out of one side of their face while bleating plaintively about their religious beliefs from the other...

What the he!! does any of this have to do with Trump? Your highjacking every thread with your anti-cop diatribes is really tiring . And I say that as something that thinks police in this country are often awful.

Not as funny this time but hit the relevant topics:

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/donald-trump-press-conference-cold-open/3454408?snl=1

...And I Feel Fiiiine...     (REM, 1987)

Daddy took Smokey's iPhone away.
http://gizmodo.com/national-park-service-banned-from-tweeting-after-anti-t-1791449526

(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--zWwMemJc--/ffhzrfihtvotr3kyr3n7.png)

Some people have jobs you know.

Some people have jobs you know.

What?? I thought the economy is so bad 93 million people are out of work.

I think you missed the joke.

I guess maybe I did, too?   Was that some vague racially-tinged reference to white folk having to work, and not blacks?  If so,  go get on another forum. There's no place that here, and really not anywhere.   If not, I'm not sure what the joke was supposed to be.

No, just the non-racially "tinged" Obama voters don't work. Geez, always with the knee jerk reactions. You know white people voted for Trump too right. And they actually had the gaul to show their faces at his inauguration, in numbers I would dare to say were greater than any other race present. Math is hard isn't it.

Man, I seriously can't tell if you are intentionally going all "troll-y" on me, or what...

So, I just want to confirm.  You position (even if you caged it in a joke) is that there were more people at Obama's inauguration because a majority of them were black, and a lot of them didn't have jobs anyway, so they had nothing better to do?   And that Trump's voters were mostly white, and so had jobs, and couldn't come?   I just want to make sure I am understanding what your thoughts are here.  I'll let others make their own decisions on their perceptions of you depending on your answer.

And what does Hillary have to do with it?  She didn't win (which is I guess your point), but even if she had, SHE wouldn't have had the same numbers as Obama, either.  She would have been the first woman president, so that would have bumped attendance quite a bit, probably more than Trump's,  but almost certainly would have been less than Obama's.

Again, it's not the actual number.  Trump drew a respectable crowd.  It's his inability to accept they weren't as large as Obama's and not lie about stupid stuff that IS the problem.

Oh MF, I meant to say white people voted for Obama. Changes the whole context now doesn't it. It was truly meant to be a jab at Obama voters portraying them as little snowflakes that always have time to jet set around to things like that, but can't actually get a job.

What is important is that the ego of a billionaire, married to a model, who is the most powerful man in the world is so fragile that he cares.  He cares so much he is willing to direct his staff to pretend it was the largest in history.  To actually approach a lectern in front of people who can read or look at photos and just make a blatantly false statement.  He cares so much his staff is still discussing it, tweeting about it, and insisting that the crowd size wasn't small. It's totally huge at least above average!  And his hands are huge.

So, the inauguration is over, we need to be over it as well.

Trump has signed executive orders to revive the Keystone XL Pipeline and Dakota Access pipelines.  Obama sitting on the issue for several years before finally giving it the axe in 2015 seemed more to me like someone trying to figure out the political winds than someone with a real conviction on the issue.

We are nowhere close to being free of dependence on oil and oil products and are decades away from that regardless of which party holds the White House so there has to be safe methods to deliver oil to refiners and their final markets.

The other option seems to be truck or rail car to transport oil and that has vastly greater risks associated with it if you look up rail accident statistics and highway accident stats.  There are 1500 to 1800 rail incidents a year ranging from crossing collisions to derailments.  I honestly thought derailments were a rare occurrence until I had lunch with an old acquaintance a week or so back whose job it is to coordinate crews to clean up derailed trains.  It’s virtually a daily occurrence somewhere in the United States.

I certainly do have reservations about pipelines crossing significant wetlands and wildlife areas and imminent domain so there is a serious trade off to consider.  Yes pipeline construction creates temporary jobs like any other infrastructure project and the kind of numbers they were claiming for permanent employment courtesy of the Keystone XL were very over-blown.

Discuss.

The Trump Administration has placed gag orders on the Department of Agriculture, the EPA and The National Institute of Health among others. No press releases, no publications of scientific findings, no blog posts, no social media or speaking engagements. All EPA contracts are frozen.

Trump wants the ability to review science before it’s shared, and if it’s to be shared and we know about his lack of relationship to the truth and facts if he doesn’t like them.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/24/14372940/trump-gag-order-epa-environmental-protection-agency-health-agriculture

The Trump Administration has placed gag orders on the Department of Agriculture, the EPA and The National Institute of Health among others. No press releases, no publications of scientific findings, no blog posts, no social media or speaking engagements. All EPA contracts are frozen.

Trump wants the ability to review science before it’s shared, and if it’s to be shared and we know about his lack of relationship to the truth and facts if he doesn’t like them.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/24/14372940/trump-gag-order-epa-environmental-protection-agency-health-agriculture

I would agree that this seems like a bit of a non-starter for the time being. He did put a hiring freeze on all non-essential personnel, which this certainly falls under. Seems pretty rational at the moment with a little flair added by Swake.

No, a gag order is not normal and may not even be legal and is at least against policy as stated today

http://mashable.com/2017/01/24/trump-administration-gag-order-epa-usda/#uehquaPaCiqC

Just stopping in to drop this off. Some posters are in REAL need of help, and its only been 5 days into Trump's first term (https://pics.onsizzle.com/industrial-strength-butthurt-relief-stabilized-aloe-vera-gel-doctor-recommended-6478858.png)

Sounds like the new resident of WH could use it instead.

https://apnews.com/61415760238042f2ad7bc38acc2f468c

Hey, remember when Trump called Clinton the biggest security threat in American history? With chants of "lock her up" over her using a private email server?

Yeah, about that....


http://www.newsweek.com/trump-emails-rnc-reince-priebus-white-house-server-548191

Well of course his staffers have these email accounts. How else can Trump secretly communicate with his Russian overlords?

Read the whole transcript of his ABC interview.

Trump is mentally ill, no joke, he really is. This is scary stuff.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/transcript-abc-news-anchor-david-muir-interviews-president/story?id=45047602

Hey, remember when Trump called Clinton the biggest security threat in American history? With chants of "lock her up" over her using a private email server?

Yeah, about that....

Does everyone also remember the Bush White House using a RNC owned private email server and losing 22 million emails? Yeah, but that was a long time ago, right?

Not so much, now the Trump White House is using that SAME RNC SERVER. Four days in and they are already using a private email server.

Gaslighting is a tactic of behavior in which a person or entity, in order to gain more power, makes a victim question their reality.  It works a lot better than you may think.  Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting.  It is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders

We are seeing a large uptick in business at my day job.  We are used to a cycle every four years prior to the November elections where business slows down and doesn't pick back up until near or after inauguration day.  It does not really  matter which party is in power, it's just a fact of life in the steam and hot water business and other industries.  That was no different this year.

Regardless of the economy, there's always a need for steam and hot water.  When the general economy is down companies tend to fix what they have or only replace equipment in an emergency.  However, when the economic outlook is good or there is great optimism for the next few years, companies turn loose with new capital spending.  That is what has suddenly happened the last two weeks.

Some of these inquiries and orders are from the terminal and transportation business (think rail and barge), some are oil related, some are food industry, a couple of breweries (I'd expect growth there regardless) and one from a government entity which I was not expecting to see as I think many government agencies are taking a wait-see approach to see what cuts may be coming to their budgets with a promise to shrink government spending.  In particular companies seem to be looking to add capacity anticipating an uptick in business or an uptick in revenue which will pay for upgrading older equipment.  There are also a couple of well-funded new start ups.

These customers, with the exceptions of the new start ups, are all talking about an increase in workflow and orders themselves.  Our vendors are reporting the same.

There certainly has been no time for President Trump's new policies to actually take effect.  However, if corporate management and company owners believe government leadership is friendly to business, they are generally optimistic about the future of the economy and their business.     

It's not just there, we've seen a huge upswing in the online business my wife and I own dealing in vintage motorcycle parts.  55% over this time last year.  Part of that I can attribute to more offerings (about 33% more items now listed on line) so that leaves about 22% in a business uptick I cannot explain in any other way.  I believe this growth is more a symptom of an economy which has done fairly well over the last year.  I'm sure there are some people who have been sitting on their savings who might feel more confident about their job situation with so much optimism in the economy.

I haven't done an analysis to see if our ratio of domestic orders vs. global is up. That would tend to say something is up specifically with optimism in the U.S. economy if that ratio has become skewed more in favor of domestic orders.

I'd also consider that these entities making the orders may be worried that interstate commerce and travel may become more difficult.  (In German accent..."Let me see your papers")

Not to disrupt a hate on Trump festival, but you do realize the order he signed doesn't even mention Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen?

The CNN piece I linked to hints to that fact...

The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."

So much for real news.



Feel free to read it yourselves.Here is a CNN link.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/

Why would anyone care about facts?  Innuendo and hysteria seems to be the order of the day.

I believe the reaction we have seen is quite warranted when people that have built their lives in the United States and been here for some time are suddenly barred from entry.

trump set the environment for innuendo, alternate facts, outright lies and hysteria. Not surprising that it will become the pond we fish in.

On a more sobering thought for education in OK, we derive a lot of income from Muslim countries as they send their children to study at our schools and Universities. TU particularly benefits from petroleum students as well as the surrounding community. Nationally it is a 34 billion dollar loss should they feel it is unsafe or unwelcome to do so. Especially if their travel is problematic. They may leave freshmen to finish out a degree but if the choke on Muslims continues within 4 years private universities may start to choke as well.

Anticipating a $34 billion loss to our economy is nothing but speculation at this point. 

I've read nowhere this is a long-term ban.  IIRC, the idea was to put a moratorium on immigration from certain countries until our vetting process could be reviewed which was anticipated to be 30-90 days.

Meanwhile, no one called Obama a hater or racist while deportations and detentions were up under his administration.  This managed to go mostly unnoticed by protesters in the streets or either it represents a double-standard.

I still can't stand Trump but at least I'm willing to view his actions with an objective eye.

Not to disrupt a hate on Trump festival, but you do realize the order he signed doesn't even mention Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen?

The CNN piece I linked to hints to that fact...

The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."

So much for real news.



Feel free to read it yourselves.Here is a CNN link.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/

"Perhaps other countries needed to be added to an executive order going forward — but in order to do this in a way that was expeditious, in a way that would pass muster quickly, we used the 7 countries" already identified by Congress, he said.

I found this to be terrifying:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/gaslighting-know-it-and-identify-it-protect-yourself

A psychological profile of gas lighting.  It is not directed at Trump, just good/bad timing I guess.  I implore you to read it, and see how many boxes our new leader checks off.  Argue with psychologists if you want, but wow...

The article lists the common tactics and explains each of them:

1. They tell you blatant lies.
2.  They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof.
3.  They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition.
4.  They wear you down over time.
5. Their actions do not match their words.
6. They throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.
7.  They know confusion weakens people.
8.  They project.
9.  They try to align people against you.
10.  They tell you or others that you are crazy.
11.  They tell you everyone else is a liar.

Meanwhile, no one called Obama a hater or racist while deportations and detentions were up under his administration.  This managed to go mostly unnoticed by protesters in the streets or either it represents a double-standard.

As leaders, we have a responsibility to secure the homeland. The executive action issued Friday is a 90-day pause and reevaluation of the screening process for individuals traveling from seven war-torn nations, and a 120-day pause for the refugee resettlement program. It is not a ban on Muslims or a permanent change in immigration policy. However, this executive action has some unintended consequences that were not well thought out. I encourage the president's staff to evaluate American policy with an eye on both security and compassion for the refugees fleeing the terrors of war and persecution. For decades, our resettlement program has maintained a very extensive multi-year screening process for refugees from all over the world. There are unique challenges when you accept refugees from countries like Syria and Yemen, but our American security and intelligence communities are the best in the world. America can have strong homeland security and uphold our foundational values of religious freedom and refuge for the persecuted. These goals are not mutually exclusive. We should also encourage, not discourage, people who have gone through the legal visa and immigration process. America has always welcomed people from different walks of life, religions and countries, and we should continue doing so.

This is well put.  I would probably encourage more immigration that Lankford would, and we can disagree on that.  And I can agree with this statement:


U.S. Sen. James Lankford has issued the following statement regarding President Donald Trump's executive order on immigration:

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald Trump’s travel bans on Sunday, according to members of Congress and attorneys who rallied protests around the country in support of detained refugees and travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries.
On Sunday afternoon, four Democratic members of the House of Representatives arrived at Dulles airport in Virginia on word that people had been detained and denied access to lawyers.
“We have a constitutional crisis today,” representative Don Beyer wrote on Twitter. “Four members of Congress asked CBP officials to enforce a federal court order and were turned away.”

Iran is “war torn”? How?

The Iraqi parliament has now voted to ask the Iraqi government to reciprocally ban Americans from entering Iraq and to expel Americans already there including US troops. If such a ban is implemented it would deal a devastating blow to US efforts to fight ISIS.

So much for “keeping us safe”. Part of the last two administrations plan was to fight terrorists in other countries to keep us from having to fight them here. The ban is damaging those efforts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-donald-trump-parliament-committee-immigrant-muslim-travel-ban-reciprocal-americans-us-a7552546.html

We have been talking about stuff like this for well over a year.   I know you cannot possibly be surprised by anything this clown is doing or going to do.

Iran is “war torn”? How?

And the Sudanese civil war is in the new country of South Sudan, not Sudan itself, and South Sudan isn’t even part of the order. The Trump Administration probably doesn’t even know that South Sudan is a country now. Just plain stupid.

We have, but Trumpers have been saying that we take him too literally and that he should be given a chance, that we should wait and see what he actually does.

Well here we are. And his actions are actually dumber and meaner than I thought they would be, and we are all of eight days in.

A local business owner flies to Iraq to bring his mother back home to the US for medical treatment. But under President Trump's ban on immigration and travel from seven predominately Muslim nations, he said he was forced to leave his family behind.

Mike Hager fled Iraq with his family during the Gulf War, returned during the Iraq war and worked alongside United States Marines and Army forces. He now owns a business in Metro Detroit and said his mom would still be alive today if President Donald Trump had not instituted his travel ban on Muslim countries.

Hager said he was returning home with his family that included his sick mom. They were returning home to the United States where his mother has lived since 1995. As they were waiting in line at the airport in Iraq on Friday, he was told that he could pass through because he was a U.S. citizen. But his family members - including his mom - weren't allowed, despite holding green cards.

Detroit family caught in Iraq travel ban, says mom died waiting to come home
"They destroyed us. I went with my family, I came back by myself. They destroyed our family," Hager said.

Hager was born in Iraq and fled during the Gulf War. He lived in a refugee camp with his family for four years before settling in the United States. In the 2000s, he returned to Iraq where he worked as a contractor for the United States armed forces between 2003 and 2008 as an interpreter and cultural advisor. He even survived being shot in the back while serving.

He's a proud American citizen whose family has now been torn apart.

"The immigration told us that the President of the United States put an order right now - you guys cannot go," he told FOX 2's Amy Lange.

Hager said he was traveling with  his niece, two nephews, and his 75-year-old mother, Naimma, home to Michigan. He said they traveled to Iraq to visit family and when she fell ill but didn't expect it to be a problem for the family to travel since they all had green cards and had lived in the United States for 20 years.

"I was just shocked. I had to put my mom back on the wheelchair and take her back and call the ambulance and she was very very upset. She knew right there if we send her back to the hospital she's going to pass away - she's not going to make it," Hager said.

Sadly, he was right. He said Naimma, who lived in the United States since 1995, wasn't allowed to come home and he said she died in her native country. Hager said if it weren't for the order, his mom would still be alive today.

He blames her death on President Trump.

"I really believe this in my heart: if they would have let us in, my mom - she would have made it and she would have been sitting right here next to me," Hager said. "She's gone because of him."

Just as the family was traveling, President Trump signed an executive order banning travelers from seven majority-Muslim countries.

Travelers from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia are banned from traveling to the United States for 90 days so the country can detect "individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States."

Hager says he has no idea when his nephews and niece will be able to return to the United States and he's worried about his own status - even though he is an American citizen.

"This is our home. We've been here for too long, we've been here since we were kids," Hager said. "If I'm not wanted overseas in Iraq and I'm not wanted here, then where do I go? What am I supposed to do with my family?"

Hager is mourning more than his mother; he's also mourning the way of life he believes that makes America great. He also has this message for the Commander in Chief:

"You have to understand you have a daughter - you have family - imagine if somebody does that to your mom. You put the terrorists on this side - the bad people - but don't mix everyone together," Hager said.

DETROIT (WJBK) - The leader of a mosque in Dearborn has confirmed to FOX 2 that a man who claimed his mother died in Iraq after being barred from returning to the United States under a ban instituted by President Trump this weekend, lied to FOX 2 about when her death occurred. CLICK HERE FOR MORE DETAILS

You people................

So this is a TRUMP thing yes?? Pull your head out of your arse...

In an exclusive interview on Thursday with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos, President Obama noted that "battle hardened" foreign fighters in Syria are increasingly slipping over porous borders and joining terrorist groups in Iraq, where the group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria -- or ISIS -- is now wreaking havoc.

Though al Qaeda denounced and cut ties with ISIS earlier this year, elements of both groups are committed to attacks against the West.

"Then they come back, they've got European passports ... [and] don't need a visa to get into the United States," the president said of certain foreign fighters

http://abcnews.go.com/US/syria-threat-prompt-airports/story?id=24351979

We have a man in the White House willing to tell you and me to F'ck off, that his #1 priority is to protect this nation PERIOD and you want to call him a fool for doing so? You want to say that HE is banning Muslims and that's all this is about? Banning Muslims??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???

OBAMA SAW THIS!! He tried to do something as well and YOU supported him! YOU DID because he was your Lord and Savior and I did because he was doing the RIGHT thing. But now because there is a Conservative in the White house you denounce the SAME action??

In issuing his ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries, President Trump relied on a 65-year-old provision of the federal Immigration and Nationality Act.
The provision gives presidents broad authority to ban individual immigrants or groups of immigrants. Presidents haven’t hesitated to use it.
Barack Obama invoked it 19 times, Bill Clinton 12 times, George W. Bush six times and Ronald Reagan five times. George H.W. Bush invoked it once.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigrant-ban-history-20170130-story.html

Every single one of you should be ashamed for being so transparent on what fools you really are. You are the reason this country is so at odds with each other for spreading such dishonest hatred. You elected a man that did it 19 times!! 19 times!!!! Trump has done it once for the EXACT same reason that President Obama did but you will not support him for doing the SAME THING!!

The difference is Trump is a man that says why he is doing it and doesn't hide the facts. And that's why you cant handle it. You need sugar coating, you need to be told something different than what it really is.

Obama:

His broadest application of the law came in 2011, when he suspended entry of foreigners “who participate in serious human rights and humanitarian law violations and other abuses,” including “widespread or systemic violence against any civilian population” based on, among other factors, race, color, disability, language, religion, ethnicity, political opinion, national origin, sexual orientation or gender identity.

You will except that explanation yes? You will because it's President Obama saying this.

And every one of you will bash and say I am so wrong. All I am doing is quoting President Obama and telling you the facts. But in your eyes it is NOT the facts, not at all. AGAIN, that's what's wrong with this country.

Obama

He turned to the provision more than any other recent president, using it to bar people who conducted certain transactions with North Korea, engaged in cyberattacks aimed at undermining democracy or contributed to the destabilization of Libya, Burundi, Central African Republic or Ukraine.

His broadest application of the law came in 2011, when he suspended entry of foreigners “who participate in serious human rights and humanitarian law violations and other abuses,” including “widespread or systemic violence against any civilian population” based on, among other factors, race, color, disability, language, religion, ethnicity, political opinion, national origin, sexual orientation or gender identity.

Obama has also used the law to block anybody involved in “grave human rights abuses by the governments of Iran and Syria” through the use of communications technology to disrupt computer networks or provide monitoring or tracking.

Of course! How could I have been so blind to this. You are right, ISIS never ever caused " Wide spread or systemic violence against any civilian population. It never did anything based on factors such as Religion or Race or especially gay people, Never ever did they do that. They can't be the individuals or groups President Obama spoke of, no of course not. Must have been those pesky Buddhist terrorists.

Explain to me the difference (other than they way it was put out by Trump) between the temporary bans President Obama invoked 19 times and Trump has done once. That's 19 different times that need explained.

I supported President Obama when he did it because as he said himself they go back to Syria from Iraq and they've got European passports and bam, right in the USA they come. He was right, do you deny he did it for the reasons HE stated?

Maybe we can approach this from basic grade school math. Remember sets and subsets? "Muslim" is a set. "Syrian" is a subset of "Muslim." "ISIS" is a subset of "Syrian." The subset "ISIS" is not equal to the sets "Muslim" or "Syrian" no matter how much Trump or his minions insist on it, just as "McVeigh and Nichols" are not equal to "All Christians."

Exactly.

And when you ban a larger set than the subset you need to make us safe from, it tends to anger that larger set creating a larger problem. Like Iraq now threatening to kick out the American soldiers now helping with the fight against ISIS in Mosul. Trump's ban has made us less safe and has isolated us.

So this is a TRUMP thing yes?? Pull your head out of your arse...


We have a man in the White House willing to tell you and me to F'ck off, that his #1 priority is to protect this nation PERIOD and you want to call him a fool for doing so? You want to say that HE is banning Muslims and that's all this is about? Banning Muslims??? ARE YOU SERIOUS???

In issuing his ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries, President Trump relied on a 65-year-old provision of the federal Immigration and Nationality Act.
The provision gives presidents broad authority to ban individual immigrants or groups of immigrants. Presidents haven’t hesitated to use it.
Barack Obama invoked it 19 times, Bill Clinton 12 times, George W. Bush six times and Ronald Reagan five times. George H.W. Bush invoked it once.

Every single one of you should be ashamed for being so transparent on what fools you really are. You are the reason this country is so at odds with each other for spreading such dishonest hatred. You elected a man that did it 19 times!! 19 times!!!! Trump has done it once for the EXACT same reason that President Obama did but you will not support him for doing the SAME THING!!

The difference is Trump is a man that says why he is doing it and doesn't hide the facts. And that's why you cant handle it. You need sugar coating, you need to be told something different than what it really is.

And every one of you will bash and say I am so wrong. All I am doing is quoting President Obama and telling you the facts. But in your eyes it is NOT the facts, not at all. AGAIN, that's what's wrong with this country.

Though al Qaeda denounced and cut ties with ISIS earlier this year, elements of both groups are committed to attacks against the West.

My big concern right now is his want to repeal the Johnson Amendment.  I'm all for that, as long as churches start paying taxes.  I can think of one 'church' right now that would fight that tooth and nail.

In what way did what Trump do make us safer than what Obama was doing?

Didn't say what he was doing made us safer, couldn't say that since we don't know if that is true or not. What I have said is I supported President Obama and I support Trump in this area. The difference that I see is proactive vs reactive.

President Obama put into place the restrictions due to the two individuals that slipped through the cracks, ended up in Kentucky and was later to be found to have placed roadside bombs in Iraq targeting US troops. His was a reaction to a vetting process that failed.

Trump is proactive with a 120 day timeline to fix the broken vetting process. Just how that will be fixed is beyond me since I see no fixes for anything in the near future.

Also, let me make this clear. I am not a die hard Trump supporter. I said it here in the past and I will say it again. He is, in my opinion, Sheep in wolves clothing. My entire point was pertaining to the ban, what the differences were and why when President Obama did it that no one was outraged like they are today when Trump signed bans. Yes yes, I know, stupid ol me, I no not math, I didn't gradumatate third grade....

So explain to me just how President Obama determined what people belonged to what group and from where? How do you do that? Really, this is not a sarcastic question. Do you just take the words of the people attempting to enter the US? Do you take the fake papers that he himself talked about and inadvertently allow two guys proved to be bombers later into the country? How do you properly vet certain groups or individuals?

President Obama did the right thing by taking a step back and attempting to fix this. Trump is doing the right thing by taking 120 days to come up with a vetting solution.

How is the current vetting process broken?

Some officials, including FBI Director James Comey, worry there are what Comey has called "gaps" in the vetting process. Experts say U.S. intelligence in Syria isn't very good, because the U.S. lacks much of a presence on the ground. So there's no way to compile a thorough watch list of possible terrorists from Syria against which refugees can be checked.

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456395388/paris-attacks-ignite-debate-over-u-s-refugee-policy

Federal agents are reinvestigating the backgrounds of dozens of Syrian refugees already in the United States after discovering a lapse in vetting that allowed some who had potentially negative information in their files to enter the country, two U.S. law enforcement officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-syria-refugees-vetting-gap-20170125-story.html

How it is broke I do not know, but as you can see by NPR and by LA Times, serious issues are there. Do you not see an issue?

So how many Americans have been killed in terrorist attacks by refugees or immigrants from those seven nations since Obama redid the vetting process in 2011?

Zero.

So far.

Good lord, you are far more likely to be killed by a lightning strike or a shark attack than a terrorist, and that's including the right wing wackos. You take a far greater risk getting into a car and driving than your risk of harm in a terrorist attack, many, many times a greater risk.

I don't disagree, but that is an illogical argument to an illogical (but legitimate) fear.    People are always more comfortable with risk when they get the choice of whether to take the risk.   (Don't like sharks, stay out of the water. Fear a car wreck? Don't ride in a car, etc...)   Terrorism, or at least the emotional consideration of terrorism, has nothing to do with an action on the person's part.  There is no assumed risk.  Of course it is illogical, but so are a lot fears. It does not dismiss their legitimacy regarding how the public feels.

But again, I agree with your general position.

 

They could have rolled this out with minimal news coverage but they wanted to get global attention by the mass chaos. 

Life is deadly. Whether its a lightning bolt or a recluse spider or a plane dropping out of the sky and falling on you, the percentages are always going to be used in an argument like that. It is legitimate. You really don't have the choice to not take those risks. Terrorism is just a part of life that also has nothing to do with action on the person's part. One must assume all of life is a deadly risk. Once you realize that there is no safety, then you can start to assign the relative risk. Terrorism of all kinds has less effect on ones safety than weather related risks and you cannot responsibly spend more money and effort to defend against terrorism than against a hurricane. But, I also agree that the how the public "feels" is also a consideration politically.

Or ratings.  Sometimes it seems he is still looking at the presidency as if it were a reality TV show.

So far.

But the perception is (correct or not) by and large something CAN be done about it. Whereas a lightning strike, not so much. Airplanes, we take measures to reduce that. The perception is shared by many that something MORE could be done to alleviate this risk.

Sometimes politics has to deal with perception more than reality.

IF that was a real concern, why not a ban on the country - the only country - the has sourced the largest deadly attack so far??   9/11.


It's all about the hypocrisy, lies, deception, deflection, and overall fraud being perpetrated on the US.

Trump is a toddler who is pushing boundaries to see how much they can get away with before being disciplined.
Unfortunately congress and senate are dysfunctional.    The public is treating him like someone else's kid.

Trump is a toddler who is pushing boundaries to see how much they can get away with before being disciplined.
Unfortunately congress and senate are dysfunctional.    The public is treating him like someone else's kid.

Unanimous ruling defeats Trump Admin's appeal.


Twitter engaged.....

Did you hear that on his call with Putin he had to be told what the START treaty was? He's not a bright or informed man. Scary.

Hadn't heard that but it's not surprising.  What an embarrassment.

When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, Trump paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was

His response?

"See you in court".

He doesn't realize that it doesn't work like all the lawsuits he's been a part of.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-putin-idUSKBN15O2A5

He also said it was it was a bad deal. He's playing with nuclear weapons here.

Unanimous ruling defeats Trump Admin's appeal.


Twitter engaged.....

Well.... If you want to take a picture with the nuclear football its $200,000 a year :D  Also you can watch him respond to North Korea :D


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/319211-mar-a-lago-guest-posts-pics-with-nuclear-football-carrier (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/319211-mar-a-lago-guest-posts-pics-with-nuclear-football-carrier)

You guys are the kings of reading (making up smile) between the lines. Seriously.

The outrage is beyond humerus at this point.

Watching Hollywood/Music Industry this weekend and I find it truly ironic that the "punk" thing to do now is to show support for Trump. Because every single other lemming is doing just the opposite. What a weird world we have created.

What exactly is made up about Trump profiting $200,000 off people that now can have selfies with the nuclear football? Did that happen, or not? Because the photo shows a man that paid Trump $200k to join his club and now has a photo of himself on his facebook page that says it did.

You guys are the kings of reading (making up smile) between the lines. Seriously.

Hey honey, stopped by the store and got milk, oranges, some coke, and a loaf of bread.

To be fair Trump obviously told him to talk to them about it. Flynn is just a scapegoat.  Your homey isn't going to talk to your side piece without talking to you first.  This is the second person to leave because of ties to Russia.

Don't even try Swake.  People would rather follow this cheeto Jesus than admit they got duped by a guy who said he was going to drain the swamp and actually filled it.  People are gullible and lazy.

He resigned because he lied to his boss. The earth shattering thing here is that he was actually forced to resign. Any other admin would have circled the wagons. Refreshing isn't it.

And the point I was actually talking about was Swake insinuation that Trump is selling access at Mar A Lago. Anybody ever consider it is literally more expensive to maintain the security in that place now?

But no, Swake IMMEDIATELY assumes that Trump is selling access, never mind the fact that people were paying $100k a year prior to his presidency, as if that was paltry in comparison.

And forget the fact that we live in a society where everyone is walking around with a camera/computer/email/do it all in their pockets 24/7 and the guy that has the "football" is a real person that actually walks the same earth we do. And sometimes actually comes into contact with other human beings.

That's what I'm talking about.

It's like getting a selfie with the President at the White House. And being shocked that the President is at the White House.

I don't think you know how ridiculous you sound deflecting his behavior by saying, "everybody does it!" You got conned dude. Lots of people refused to see him for what he is.

I don't think you know how ridiculous you sound deflecting his behavior by saying, "everybody does it!" You got conned dude. Lots of people refused to see him for what he is.

Access apparently = selfies with chubby guys now a days.

As if power and influence hadn't been peddled for decades. You (swake) are furious at the wrong actors. Trump is just one in a long line of people peddling influence. Hell, one of the biggest was just shut down for not having any more leverage. You are furious at a person, when the problem is so much bigger and so much more complicated than party affiliation.

Intercepted phone calls and phone records show that several aides and allies to President Trump's campaign were in repeated contact with senior Russian intelligence officials

I don't think you know how ridiculous you sound deflecting his behavior by saying, "everybody does it!" You got conned dude. Lots of people refused to see him for what he is.

Trump is exactly like every other politicians except decidedly less cunning.

No, I see him for exactly what he is, and haven't been one bit surprised. I'm not defending him, as much as trying to redirect y'alls furor. Trump is exactly like every other politicians except decidedly less cunning.

No one was conned. The left is still just having PESD (Post Election Stress Disorder) and can't come to terms with the fact that all of their former secrets (conspring with foreign enemies, pay for play) are all now coming out into the open. I personally think, that while Trump's "Presidency" will be a flaming disaster, it may turn out to be one of the best things to happen to this country in a long time. Because the path we were heading down with liar and cheat after liar and cheat (just better at it than Trump) was going to lead us to some dark places I'm afraid. While Trump might be laughed out of office, he will not get his head chopped off or dragged out in the street and gutted.

And I think we will easily survive anything he could possibly do. I have more faith in American's than I guess most do. That's my vice.

To bolster what CF and H just said, if you want a more conservative view from a respected analyst, read this link. You are living in a bubble constrained by your view of what is left, right and normal. The republicans are none of those right now.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/opinion/how-should-one-resist-the-trump-administration.html

Trump saying leaks abt treason are worse than treason is like the Empire convincing Alderaan survivors that the stolen Death Star plans was the real war crime.

Trump saying leaks abt treason are worse than treason is like the Empire convincing Alderaan survivors that the stolen Death Star plans was the real war crime.

Apparently it's just the corruption and ineptitude that bother me, not the level of corruption and ineptitude.

Cannon I appreciate your non-knee jerk response. I just have a real sour taste for all "politicians". I real dis-trust. Honestly, I have never really considered getting off the grid more so than at this point in my life. People letting a duffus like Trump cause them to literally tear each other down is pretty depressing to watch.

And to think we could have had this and been so much better off...

Apparently it's just the corruption and ineptitude that bother me, not the level of corruption and ineptitude.

Cannon I appreciate your non-knee jerk response. I just have a real sour taste for all "politicians". I real dis-trust. Honestly, I have never really considered getting off the grid more so than at this point in my life. People letting a duffus like Trump cause them to literally tear each other down is pretty depressing to watch.

And to think we could have had this and been so much better off...

Oh he'll just call Brooks a RINO and continue on.

Meanwhile, this nugget appeared in my feed today re:  Trump's response to the 'Russia' question:

In a recent column, I explained how the still-forming Trump administration is already doing serious harm to America’s longstanding global intelligence partnerships. In particular, fears that the White House is too friendly to Moscow are causing close allies to curtail some of their espionage relationships with Washington—a development with grave implications for international security, particularly in the all-important realm of counterterrorism.

Now those concerns are causing problems much closer to home—in fact, inside the Beltway itself. Our Intelligence Community is so worried by the unprecedented problems of the Trump administration—not only do senior officials possess troubling ties to the Kremlin, there are nagging questions about basic competence regarding Team Trump—that it is beginning to withhold intelligence from a White House which our spies do not trust.

That the IC has ample grounds for concern is demonstrated by almost daily revelations of major problems inside the White House, a mere three weeks after the inauguration. The president has repeatedly gone out of his way to antagonize our spies, mocking them and demeaning their work, and Trump’s personal national security guru can’t seem to keep his story straight on vital issues.

That’s Mike Flynn, the retired Army three-star general who now heads the National Security Council. Widely disliked in Washington for his brash personality and preference for conspiracy-theorizing over intelligence facts, Flynn was fired as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency for managerial incompetence and poor judgment—flaws he has brought to the far more powerful and political NSC.

Flynn’s problems with the truth have been laid bare by the growing scandal about his dealings with Moscow. Strange ties to the Kremlin, including Vladimir Putin himself, have dogged Flynn since he left DIA, and concerns about his judgment have risen considerably since it was revealed that after the November 8 election, Flynn repeatedly called the Russian embassy in Washington to discuss the transition. The White House has denied that anything substantive came up in conversations between Flynn and Sergei Kislyak, the Russian ambassador.

That was a lie, as confirmed by an extensively sourced bombshell report in The Washington Post, which makes clear that Flynn grossly misrepresented his numerous conversations with Kislyak—which turn out to have happened before the election too, part of a regular dialogue with the Russian embassy. To call such an arrangement highly unusual in American politics would be very charitable.

In particular, Flynn and Kislyak discussed the possible lifting of the sanctions President Obama placed on Russia and its intelligence services late last year in retaliation for the Kremlin’s meddling in our 2016 election. In public, Flynn repeatedly denied that any talk of sanctions occurred during his conversations with Russia’s ambassador. Worse, he apparently lied in private too, including to Vice President Mike Pence, who when this scandal broke last month publicly denied that Flynn conducted any sanctions talk with Kislyak. Pence and his staff are reported to be very upset with the national security adviser, who played the vice president for a fool.

It’s debatable whether Flynn broke any laws by conducting unofficial diplomacy with Moscow, then lying about it, and he has now adopted the customary Beltway dodge about the affair, ditching his previous denials in favor of professing he has “no recollection of discussing sanctions,” adding that he “couldn’t be certain that the topic never came up.” That’s not good enough anymore, since the IC knows exactly what Flynn and Kislyak discussed.

In pretty much every capital worldwide, embassies that provide sanctuary to hostile intelligence services are subject to counterintelligence surveillance, including monitoring phone calls. Our spy services conduct signals intelligence—SIGINT for short—against the Russian embassy in Washington, just as the Russians do against our embassy in Moscow. Ambassadors’ calls are always monitored: that’s how the SpyWar works, everywhere.

Ambassador Kislyak surely knew his conversations with Flynn were being intercepted, and it’s incomprehensible that a career military intelligence officer who once headed a major intelligence agency didn’t realize the same. Whether Flynn is monumentally stupid or monumentally arrogant is the big question that hangs over this increasingly strange affair.

Prominent Democrats in Congress are already calling for Flynn to be relieved over this scandal, which at best shows him to be dishonest about important issues. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, has bluntly asked for the national security adviser’s ouster. Republicans on the Hill who would prefer that the White House stop lying to the public about its Kremlin links ought to get behind Schiff’s initiative before the scandal gets worse.

In truth, it may already be too late. A new report by CNN indicates that important parts of the infamous spy dossier that professed to shed light on President Trump’s shady Moscow ties have been corroborated by communications intercepts. In other words, SIGINT strikes again, providing key evidence that backs up some of the claims made in that 35-page report compiled by Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence official with extensive Russia experience.

As I’ve previously explained, that salacious dossier is raw intelligence, an explosive amalgam of fact and fantasy, including some disinformation planted by the Kremlin to obscure this already murky case. Now SIGINT confirms that some of the non-salacious parts of what Steele reported, in particular how senior Russian officials conspired to assist Trump in last year’s election, are substantially based in fact. This is bad news for the White House, which has already lashed out in angry panic, with Press Secretary Sean Spicer stating, “We continue to be disgusted by CNN’s fake news reporting.”

That is hardly a denial, of course, and I can confirm from my friends still serving in the IC that the SIGINT, which corroborates some of the Steele dossier, is damning for the administration. Our spies have had enough of these shady Russian connections—and they are starting to push back.

There are pervasive concerns that the president simply isn’t paying attention to intelligence.

How things are heating up between the White House and the spooks is evidenced by a new report that the CIA has denied a security clearance to one of Flynn’s acolytes. Rob Townley, a former Marine intelligence officer selected to head up the NSC’s Africa desk, was denied a clearance to see Sensitive Compartmented Information (which is required to have access to SIGINT in particular). Why Townley’s SCI was turned down isn’t clear—it could be over personal problems or foreign ties—but the CIA’s stand has been privately denounced by the White House, which views this as a vendetta against Flynn. That the Townley SCI denial was reportedly endorsed by Mike Pompeo, the new CIA director selected by Trump himself, only adds to the pain.

There is more consequential IC pushback happening, too. Our spies have never liked Trump’s lackadaisical attitude toward the President’s Daily Brief, the most sensitive of all IC documents, which the new commander-in-chief has received haphazardly. The president has frequently blown off the PDB altogether, tasking Flynn with condensing it into a one-page summary with no more than nine bullet-points. Some in the IC are relieved by this, but there are pervasive concerns that the president simply isn’t paying attention to intelligence.

In light of this, and out of worries about the White House’s ability to keep secrets, some of our spy agencies have begun withholding intelligence from the Oval Office. Why risk your most sensitive information if the president may ignore it anyway? A senior National Security Agency official explained that NSA was systematically holding back some of the “good stuff” from the White House, in an unprecedented move. For decades, NSA has prepared special reports for the president’s eyes only, containing enormously sensitive intelligence. In the last three weeks, however, NSA has ceased doing this, fearing Trump and his staff cannot keep their best SIGINT secrets.

Since NSA provides something like 80 percent of the actionable intelligence in our government, what’s being kept from the White House may be very significant indeed. However, such concerns are widely shared across the IC, and NSA doesn’t appear to be the only agency withholding intelligence from the administration out of security fears.

What’s going on was explained lucidly by a senior Pentagon intelligence official, who stated that “since January 20, we’ve assumed that the Kremlin has ears inside the SITROOM,” meaning the White House Situation Room, the 5,500 square-foot conference room in the West Wing where the president and his top staffers get intelligence briefings. “There’s not much the Russians don’t know at this point,” the official added in wry frustration.

None of this has happened in Washington before. A White House with unsettling links to Moscow wasn’t something anybody in the Pentagon or the Intelligence Community even considered a possibility until a few months ago. Until Team Trump clarifies its strange relationship with the Kremlin, and starts working on its professional honesty, the IC will approach the administration with caution and concern.

I previously warned the Trump administration not to go to war with the nation’s spies, and here’s why. This is a risky situation, particularly since President Trump is prone to creating crises foreign and domestic with his incautious tweets. In the event of a serious international crisis of the sort which eventually befalls almost every administration, the White House will need the best intelligence possible to prevent war, possibly even nuclear war. It may not get the information it needs in that hour of crisis, and for that it has nobody to blame but itself.

I knew he wouldn't read it. Makes too much sense. Ego gets in the way.

My favorite hypocritical remarks are those who think the illegal leaking of criminal, traitorous activities are worse than the activities themselves!

And to be PERFECTLY clear, my comment did not mean that I belived Trump would actually be doing the fixing. Just that the fixing would come about because of his existence.

That is decidedly not so.  I respect your dissent, I really do.  And it is axiomatic that every politicians engages in politics and that this administration appears to be less cunning, but this is not normal.

It isn't normal for a top adviser to be fired only after the media makes it public that he openly lied to the President and the American people. While Flynn may have been the fastest in history he is by far not the only one. Clifton R Wharton Jr served as Deputy Secretary of State under President Clinton. He was forced to resign after Secretary Warren Christopher leaked rumors of his disappointment with Wharton's performance on the job.  

 It isn't normal for a President to regularly lob juvenile insults at people. Serious? How about LBJ talking about Ford? “Jerry Ford is so dumb that he can’t fart and chew gum at the same time.” and another ( my favorite) “Ford’s economics are the worst thing that’s happened to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-f*cking.”    

It isn't normal for a President not to release a tax return.  Presidents release tax returns only for years they serve in office and only while they still hold that office. Incoming presidents do not release returns for the year before they assumed office. Though President Obama certainly did.  http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns

 It isn't normal for a spokesman to plug products on behalf of the first family. It is ok though for the President to endorse a product for himself though? Remember the Blackberry? President Obama said they would have to pry it out of his hands. At the time it was thought to be an endorsement by many, in reality it was because he depended upon it so much.

  It isn't normal to conduct intelligence briefings with a foreign leader in an open dining room surrounded by people who paid $200k to join your club. 100% agree

 It isn't normal to pick fights with our allies. From Iran to Cuba, Obama bent over backwards to court our adversaries. At the same time, he mistreated our closest allies — allowing Israel to get bullied by the U.N. Security Council and canceling missile defense deals with Poland and the Czech Republic in a misguided effort to curry favor with Moscow.

 It isn't normal for a President to never have served the public in any capacity. Not normal, isn't this one of the main reasons people elected him? His screaming from the mountain "drain the swamp". We have had a few Presidents that only served in the military and never in an elected office though. Not normal though.

  It isn't normal for a President to send out angry tweets in a near constant stream. Had some Presidents in the past had that type of technology I think they would have.

 It isn't normal to have the head of the EPA to be engaged in active lawsuits with the EPA. Not Normal and worthy of being called a twat monkey

  It isn't normal for the intelligence community to investigate administration ties to foreign governments who attempted to influence the US election.  The 1996 United States campaign finance controversy was an alleged effort by the People's Republic of China to influence domestic American politics prior to and during the Clinton administration and also involved the fund-raising practices of the administration itself.

  It isn't normal for the President to regularly insult the judicial branch and question its purpose. A noted Supreme Court historian who “enthusiastically” voted for President Obama in November 2008 today called President Obama’s criticism of the Supreme Court in his State of the Union address last night “really unusual” and said he wouldn’t be surprised if no Supreme Court Justices attend the speech next year. Added Professor Powe, who clerked for Supreme Court Justice William Douglas, “you don’t go to be insulted.   http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/01/supreme-court-historian-after-presidents-insult-wont-be-surprised-if-supreme-court-doesnt-attend-next-year.html

 It isn't normal for spokespeople for the President to give different versions of events to different media outlets at the same time. This happens all the time. See Benghazi

 It isn't normal for a President to brag about "grabbing them by the Pussy!" Not Normal, nor is it appropriate 

   It isn't normal to Presidents to issue executive orders without speaking with the experts advisers on staff. You know for a fact he didn't speak with his advisers?

  It isn't normal for Presidents to repeat claims that have repeatedly been proven false. Please see " Like your doctor keep your doctor claims, also refer back to the Benghazi video.

  It isn't normal for the First Family to divide their time equally between two residences and a luxury resort. Agreed!!

   It isn't normal for the President to be ignorant of basic governmental concepts. Agreed. Though I do suspect that many had a learning curve going in. No one can know everything

 It isn't normal to exclude security experts from the security council. Agreed but I will have to do more research.

  It isn't normal for the Education Secretary to have no experience in education. True. DeVos does have a degree, just not in education; she graduated from Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan with a bachelor’s degree in business administration and political science. She wouldn’t be the first Secretary of Education to take office without a degree in the subject, however. Margaret Spellings, George W. Bush’s education secretary from 2005 to 2009, had a degree in political science. Bill Clinton’s education secretary, Richard W. Riley, had a law degree

  It isn't normal to regularly get in fights with the intelligence community. I think this is not normal but it has happened in the past. See WMD BUSH years.

It isn't normal to insist on facts that are demonstrably fiction. YUP, agreed.

 It isn't normal for the plan to be "come up with a plan" even after taking office. Agreed, but it in my mind falls right in line with " We must pass it to find out what's in it"


There is some normal political wrangling that both Democrats do and Republicans do, and each whines and wails when the other engages in it (a good hint is when they accuse the other of "politicizing something" it really means "why are you doing exactly what I did last term?").  Of course there is some of that going on - Jeff Sessions was a fairly normal political fight and the Supreme Court nominee is going to be tit for tat on locking out Garland. But please, don't actually believe that most of what's going on is "normal."  This is not normal.  

Is this the end of America?  Almost certainly not. Powers usually don't blink out of existence, they fade away.  Leaders with no direction and a poor understanding of the matters of state greatly hasten that decline.  Vegas says Trump only has a 40% chance of making it all 4 years, that isn't good for anyone.  America season 45 isn't normal, but I don't think its the last season.

This I could agree with.  He may be a catalyst to finally roll by executive power, to protect the independence of the judiciary, to place qualifications on cabinet positions, to make it clear that conflict of interest laws extend to the executive, to mandate more financial disclosure, strengthen nepotism laws,  to reign in how much taxpayers will pay to protect various private residences and enterprises of the president, and to protect scientific endeavors from political interference.  He has exposed a ton of flaws in the system in the first month - some of which I think a bipartisan Congress could (and should) get behind fixing.  Both sides say it should be fixed when they aren't in power...

From Trump's press conference today, where he got his new Labor nominees name wrong more than he did right and where he completely exposed himself as a crazy toddler.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4zs7U9WQAAZeDl.jpg)

 His corruption is at a level never seen in this country.

I watched that presser.  What a bumbler.

I personally never thought of Obama is terribly eloquent.  To many pauses, “and-ahh”, etc. which I realize can either indicate a thoughtful and careful speaker, someone very unprepared, or someone terribly aloof.

Listening to Trump, he’s raised the bar on unprepared and aloof.

Well, Flynn is toast.

He lied about his conversations with Russia to the FBI. They don't like that. That's a felony that comes with jail time.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/16/click-for-a-full-transcript-of-trumps-first-solo-press-conference.html

"I mean I watch CNN, and it's so much anger, hatred, and just the hatred, I don't watch it anymore because it's very good — he's saying now, it's okay, Jim, you'll have a chance. But I watch others too. You're not the only one, don't feel badly. But I think it should be straight. I think it should be, I think it should be frankly more interesting."

"Well, you look at your show that goes on at 10 in the evening. You just take a look at the show. It's a constant hit. The panel is almost always exclusive anti-Trump. The good news is he doesn't have good ratings, but the panel is almost exclusive anti-Trump, and the hatred and venom from his mouth. And hatred from other people on your network. I'll say this. I watch it. I see it. I'm amazed by it. And I just think you'd be a lot better off. I honestly do. The public gets it.

You go to rallies, they're screaming at CNN, they want to throw their placards at CNN. You know, I think you would do much better by being different. But you just Take a look. Take a look at some of your shows in the mornings and evening. If a guest comes out and says something positive about me, it's brutal. Now, they'll take this news conference, I'm actually having a very good time, okay, but they'll take this news conference — don't forget, that's the way I won. I used to give you a news conference every day and made a speech, which was every day. That's how I won, with news conference and probably speeches. I certainly did not win by people listening to you people. That's for sure.

But I'm having a good time. Tomorrow, they will say, Donald Trump rants and raves at the press. I'm not ranting and raving. I'm telling you you're dishonest people, but I'm not ranting and raving. I love this. I'm having a good time doing it, but tomorrow's headlines are going to be Donald Trump, rants and rants. I'm not ranting. "

He should have just stuck to naming his Labor Sec nominee.  This has evolved into more than just a dumpster fire now.  Wow.

I did, and what I have been saying lines up pretty square with what Brooks said.

Did I once say Trump is great. I said Trump could be good for the country, but not in a way that means he is good at what he does. Without Trump, I don't believe Washington gets fixed, or at least not nearly as fast as it will with him. There is a difference. Nuance is a thing.

We didn't read the same editorial then. He doesn't fix anything. He has a well known history of failing actually. But do go on....

Ego must be in YOUR way, as you obviously didn't read what I said.

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (GARANCE BURKE)
February 17, 2017, 9:19 AM CST
(AP) -- A draft memo obtained by The Associated Press outlines a Trump administration proposal under consideration to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants. Millions of those who would be affected in 11 states live nowhere near the Mexico border.

The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana. If the proposal is implemented, governors in the affected states would have final approval on whether troops under their control participate.

This just isn't funny anymore. Soldiers in the streets of American cities rounding people up. This isn't fascist at all. Nope.

Trump Weighs Mobilizing National Guard for Immigration Roundups

Enough leaks to sink even the Titanic.

This has got to be pretty unprecedented. Of course I say that with basically no way of measuring what so ever.

Unsurprising response from you.

Leaks.  I thought Trump LOVED leaks.  Wikileaks to be sure.  He even encouraged Russians to hack further to find Hillary's emails.

Oh, unless it affects him.  Then he hates them.

This President is dangerous.  You can call the previous president aloof, whatever.  After yesterday's display I'm at a loss to see how much further it can go down in flames.  I've got friends of mine now who voted for him openly telling me they made a mistake.  They wouldn't have voted for Hillary, but now they regret voting for this meat-head.

If the leaks bring out in the open some untoward actions by the administration (and sofar there seem to be many of them, from Kellyanne promoting Ivanka's goods, to the Flynn dismissal, to his potential replacement turning down the job offer, to the Labor Secretary removing himself from nomination...and finally, elephant --or bear -- in the room...what does the president know about Russia and what ties does he have) that would be a good thing.  Instead, you have Chaffetz doing two things.  Investigating the leaks (that should be done) but refusing to investigate the Russia ties.  And his continuation of the investigation of the Hillary emails.  The rank and file Rs have lost their damned minds.  Guys like McCain, Graham and a few others give me hope, however.

Yesterday he was in full campaign mode.  His supporters eat that up.  His approval ratings continue on the decline.  He has gone to his vacation home each of the weekends he has been in office.

This camp....err.....administration is a train wreck on fire with dumpsters on the load cars.

I had visions of brown shirts cruising the streets.

Turns out, Spicer is denying the White House has any such knowledge of the plan.  Here's an article with a pdf of the memorandum which originated from John Kelly, the DHS secretary.  If this happened without Trump's prior knowledge I suspect Kelly might be sacked soon.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-document-trump-national-guard-draft-memo-20170217-htmlstory.html

And yes, this admin seems to be leakier than the SS Minnow.

DHS official described the document as a very early draft that was not seriously considered and never brought to the secretary for approval

It's real. Now DHS is admitting the doc is legit, but was just an early, unapproved draft. It's unreal how incompetent this White House is
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/trump-weighs-mobilizing-national-guard-for-immigration-roundups

Some have suggested these leaks are some sort of by-design bait-and-switch, wherein the White House gets a “Donald Trump is mulling doing something extreme” story, then denies it, leaving the news organization that reported on it sandbagged and exposed. Meanwhile, the White House is suddenly in a stronger position to do what they actually want to do.

Here’s how this would work:

    1. The White House lets it be known that they might do something crazily extreme.

    2. Which allows the media’s reporting to sow outrage.

    3. Allowing the White House to back up onto a policy that’s less crazily extreme.

    4. Leaving everyone feeling relieved about the bullet that was dodged and proud of themselves for having backed Trump down. Also, the media looks stupid.

    5. But the less crazily extreme plan was what they wanted all along!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ap-national-guard-trump-media_us_58a76c45e4b045cd34c1970c

But the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in Sweden yesterday. Everybody knows that.

Day 31 of the smile show:

I saw that Herr Trump posted a request for people to take a survey in what was called a 'mainstream media accountability survey'.  However, things didn't go quite his way on this, as the poll didn't live up to what he expected (you can read that as more than just HIS supporters/followers took the poll).  What did he expect?  He asked 'Americans' to take it.  His respsonse?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C46MTiDUcAEz9mh.jpg:large)

While in Florida yesterday during his 'rally' (hey Donny, you won...hasn't anyone told you this?) he alluded to some nefarious incident in Sweden happening.  From a Swedish media outlet, here  (http://www.aftonbladet.se/a/Vn17J)is what they say happened in their country.

This morning on Meet the Press, John McCain (yes that John McCain) had the following to say during a discussion with Chuck Todd:

"I hate the press, I hate you especially, but the fact is we need you, we need a free press," John McCain told Chuck Todd.
"I'm not saying President Trump is trying to be a dictator, I'm just saying we need to learn the lessons of history."

But I'm sure many in this state would call McCain a RINO.  That took incredible courage and love of country above party to say.  Of course that's my opinion.

What McCain said and what Trump says about the press in my eyes are perfectly in line with each other, they both hate the press, But in yours one is heroic, and the other a dictator?

Please describe to me exactly how Trump has been hindering the "free press". I really would like to know. Presidents have long tried to control the press or release what they thought would best suit them. Trump is (STILL) not unique on this front. Roosevelt had polio, yet no one knew. Was he a dictator because he controlled the message (well, maybe a bad example)?

Yep, continue to fall in line.

The difference is that no President has EVER called the press the 'enemy of the American people'.  Not even Nixon did that, although at the end I'm pretty sure he probably thought it.

Wow.