The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/family-north-tulsa-leaders-view-fatal-shooting-video-pastor-expects/article_5b449b2b-d722-563e-b6db-1777a5d2d881.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/family-north-tulsa-leaders-view-fatal-shooting-video-pastor-expects/article_5b449b2b-d722-563e-b6db-1777a5d2d881.html)

This can't happen in our city. Obviously, more details will emerge. But I will live in a city where a black man coming home from a class at TCC doesn't get shot dead when because his car breaks down. It's not negotiable.

Video one is out.

Shows a man with his hands up walking away from a female police officer who has a gun drawn on him. It appears he had walked over to her vehicle when she pulled up. Another police officer shows up, quickly followed by 2 more (as well as the helicopter). The man approaches the drivers side of his stalled vehicle, the female officer appears to jump back and shoot him. He falls to the ground, the officers take cover positions and back away... leaving the "suspect" on the ground as another police car pulls into frame.

Not good. No sudden movements. No indication that he was acting erratically or threatening.  It is a somewhat obstructed view, but this isnt going to calm things down.

http://www.tulsaworldtv.com/Graphic-Video-Tulsa-Police-officer-shoots-Terence-Crutcher-31411497?vcid=31411497&freewheel=91468&sitesection=tulsa

The video from the copter and from the shooter's dashboard might give more info. But it looks at the moment like the female officer got scared and when she flinched for some unknown reason she shot him.

Also, I'm ashamed at how this is dragging out the racism in this town. So many older white people are jumping to find something wrong with this guy so they can justify his death. They can't handle the truth.

All the videos except the first officer on scene:

https://vimeo.com/183327146
(videos have since been removed)

People are already digging into the guys past, or what they say is this man's past under several variations on the spelling of Terrence/Terence/Terance Crutcher. But neither of the 911 callers reported a tag number so it wouldn't seem like the police would have known who the guy was anyway. Ergo, hard to say the police response was based on any knowledge of his history anyway, for better or for worse (be he a convict or a preacher, it seems they didn't know when he was shot).

Not going to help either:

The guy in the helicopter, was very likely the shooter's husband. Not sure if he is the one giving commentary or not, hopefully he wasn't flying that day, but his job is as an observer for the copter. If her husband is the one giving the ill-advised commentary about how the guy looks, well, just another angle to the story.

Article saying they are husband and wife:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/officer-involved-in-crutcher-shooting-got-her-start-in-law/article_5a4ef13f-00ba-5249-b7d2-39a5f7af9b4e.html

Article on David serving as the spotter for the TPD copter:
http://www.newson6.com/story/28487399/news-on-6-views-pursuit-from-tulsa-police-helicopter

Not to belittle the death and aside from who's at fault, but what a really crappy day for David too. Sure, it's bad for his wife no matter what (and obviously beyond tragic for Crutcher's family), but at least it can be said she is the one that made the decision to pull the trigger. Even if David was the one who jumped to some conclusions and said thoughtless things on tape, he didn't pull the trigger and his life is messed up too... another person hurt in this situation. Just no winners here. Sucks all around.

Yeah, I guess....but shows an attitude that would seem to be all too widespread throughout the department, so maybe the sentiment that lets him have those thoughts and express them so eloquently will shield him emotionally from the worst of it.  So, the level of his life being "messed up" is kinda relative.  He got a very mild indigestion compared to what the other family got/gets.  Plus they got to hear his pronouncements and judgement on their loved one!  Bonus!  It could get worse for him depending on what happens with his wife.  Maybe.


Yep.  I admit it - I am extremely jaded AND cynical !!  That is also called 'experienced'....

From what I've read, they said he had a criminal record.  Carrying a concealed weapon....in 1996.  Twenty years ago.  He was 20.  Also, they made sure to note he had some traffic violations...some as recent as....wait for it...2005. Really?  Bring up traffic stops from 11 years ago.

SMFH.

Man, I'm in trouble if they ever find out about my failure to yield in 2011.


Seriously though, days like this are why I avoid Facebook. My wife can't and is always trying to show me the posts the stupid, mouth-breathing, racist trolls roll out at times like this. Personally I'd rather have a hot poker shoved up my chocolate starfish than be exposed to that intellectual diarrhea.

The Tulsa World comments are downright depressing.

Man, I'm in trouble if they ever find out about my failure to yield in 2011.


Seriously though, days like this are why I avoid Facebook. My wife can't and is always trying to show me the posts the stupid, mouth-breathing, racist trolls roll out at times like this. Personally I'd rather have a hot poker shoved up my chocolate starfish than be exposed to that intellectual diarrhea.

Same with the Eric Harris case, talking about how Robert Bates had done society a favor by taking out a felon.

It’s as if these people don’t have a clue that due process applies to everyone, even people with a criminal past.

The World said his only criminal record was possession of an illegal gun in the mid 90s and traffic violations more than 10 years ago. Not much of a record and nothing recent.

The Tulsa World comments are downright depressing.

I think the national media is expecting us to start rioting
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-tulsa-fatal-police-shooting-20160918-snap-story.html
but we've been there, done it... and were better than that.

My instincts lean towards an accidental discharge they just dont want to own up to.

Any criminal history is irrelevant as the officers didn't know about it when responding. Their reactions were not based on any such knowledge.  No reason to be nervous around a stalled motorist unless you had knowledge that he was likely to cause trouble.


A predominant view appears to be:  he didn't comply with orders, what do you expect?

That's sad for several reasons. First, we have no idea what orders they may be talking about.  Second, the video doesn't support the contention that he presented an imminent threat justifying the use of deadly force. And most troubling, it represents the attitude that you will do what the government tells you at all times or you should rightfully expect to be executed.

Remember when we rebelled with the greatest empire on earth because they raised taxes on tea? We have regressed to the point now that shooting a citizen in need of assistance is acceptable to many people if they fail to obey unspecified government orders. That's ugly, either the person is utterly ignorant of our founding ideals or because it implicitly support the racist narrative that I don't want to believe (not that police are intentionally killing black people, but rather than many people don't take it seriously because it "isn't me or mine").

Give me compliance, or give me death! #smallgovernment #protectandserve

I'm not making a full judgment on this matter, but rather the perception that is being expressed. On the matter at hand, my current theory is that the female officer was scared of dealing with an angry big black man and so she drew her gun (lets face it, big black guys are more intimidating to many people). The other officer sees a smaller female officer confronting a large black man and runs in for backup, not really clear on whats going on.  For whatever reason (I'm assuming because the guy isn't complying with whatever request they are making) the backup officer believes he needs to deploy his taser and does so. This appears to startle the female officer, so she fires one shot and jumps to the side nervously.  

It looks to me like she was nervous/scared, got startled, and accidentally shot the guy to death. That's my best guess. If she intended to execute him she could have done it before more cameras were on the scene.  If she intended to shoot him because she perceived a threat, Officers are trained to fire more than one shot to eliminate the threat. And, generally speaking, when an Officer fires on a suspect they don't shy away as she appears to.

I'm not making a full judgment on this matter, but rather the perception that is being expressed. On the matter at hand, my current theory is that the female officer was scared of dealing with an angry big black man and so she drew her gun (lets face it, big black guys are more intimidating to many people). The other officer sees a smaller female officer confronting a large black man and runs in for backup, not really clear on whats going on.  For whatever reason (I'm assuming because the guy isn't complying with whatever request they are making) the backup officer believes he needs to deploy his taser and does so. This appears to startle the female officer, so she fires one shot and jumps to the side nervously.  

Any criminal history is irrelevant as the officers didn't know about it when responding. Their reactions were not based on any such knowledge.  No reason to be nervous around a stalled motorist unless you had knowledge that he was likely to cause trouble.


A predominant view appears to be:  he didn't comply with orders, what do you expect?

That's sad for several reasons. First, we have no idea what orders they may be talking about.  Second, the video doesn't support the contention that he presented an imminent threat justifying the use of deadly force. And most troubling, it represents the attitude that you will do what the government tells you at all times or you should rightfully expect to be executed.

Remember when we rebelled with the greatest empire on earth because they raised taxes on tea? We have regressed to the point now that shooting a citizen in need of assistance is acceptable to many people if they fail to obey unspecified government orders. That's ugly, either the person is utterly ignorant of our founding ideals or because it implicitly support the racist narrative that I don't want to believe (not that police are intentionally killing black people, but rather than many people don't take it seriously because it "isn't me or mine").

Give me compliance, or give me death! #smallgovernment #protectandserve

I'm not making a full judgment on this matter, but rather the perception that is being expressed. On the matter at hand, my current theory is that the female officer was scared of dealing with an angry big black man and so she drew her gun (lets face it, big black guys are more intimidating to many people). The other officer sees a smaller female officer confronting a large black man and runs in for backup, not really clear on whats going on.  For whatever reason (I'm assuming because the guy isn't complying with whatever request they are making) the backup officer believes he needs to deploy his taser and does so. This appears to startle the female officer, so she fires one shot and jumps to the side nervously. 

It looks to me like she was nervous/scared, got startled, and accidentally shot the guy to death. That's my best guess. If she intended to execute him she could have done it before more cameras were on the scene.  If she intended to shoot him because she perceived a threat, Officers are trained to fire more than one shot to eliminate the threat. And, generally speaking, when an Officer fires on a suspect they don't shy away as she appears to.

It's called a "police state" for a reason.  

Just one of the reasons "1984" should be required reading in schools....


Another one for the list of of troubling things is now the videos have been pulled.  I have no doubt they intend to continue to follow the 'company line' of lies about the situation and the videos just showed a completely different story.  This is much more rotten than the imitation deputy situation under the Glanz regime!!

The videos have not been pulled.  They may have dropped from the Vimeo account linked earlier, but they are available here still:

http://www.tulsaworldtv.com/Graphic-Warning-The-complete-unedited-view-of-Terence-Crutchers-death-31413336?playlistId=15318

Then the fat, white, middle aged guy in your office says something stupid like, "he should have complied". And it leaves you speechless.

The videos have not been pulled.  They may have dropped from the Vimeo account linked earlier, but they are available here still:

http://www.tulsaworldtv.com/Graphic-Warning-The-complete-unedited-view-of-Terence-Crutchers-death-31413336?playlistId=15318

This is something which stumps me:

-Cop(s) pass stalled car which is basically in the middle of the road, ostensibly someone radios in there is a motorist in need of assistance.

-Officer Shelby shows up and the first of the video we see from the helicopter and Turnbough’s unit is Crutcher with his hands in the air ostensibly being marched back to his vehicle.  Shelby is first shown in the helicopter video coming from the right rear of her unit, gun drawn and pointed at Crutcher.

-On video at least, we see  all this has happened in a mere matter of moments, less than a minute.  But what happened prior to that final minute before Crutcher was shot?  Why was Shelby’s weapon drawn on the passenger side of her vehicle in the first place?  She is first shown at about the right rear quarter panel of her car.  What threat did a motorist of a stalled car represent to the first officer on the scene?  We soon realize she obviously had called for backup...lots of it.  The helicopter video shows Turnbough’s unit and several others not far behind rushing to the scene moments before the shooting.  Others responded from the west fairly quickly.  Why such a big response?  

-In that time-frame why was the police helicopter dispatched to this scene, or had they just left the airpark west of there, they heard radio chatter and realized it was less than a few miles down the road?  The released video from the helicopter starts just south and west of Mohawk Blvd. & Lewis, a few blocks from the scene.

-This being worthy of the of a police air unit is what I still cannot figure out unless it was just cosmic timing which put air support in the area as this unfolded. I’m assuming the helicopters are still based out of the old Downtown Airpark which is less than three miles west of the scene of Crutcher’s shooting.  

-I’m further stumped why none of the responding officers offer any aid to Crutcher as he lays in the ground.  Judging by the blood spatter on his SUV and on his shirt, there likely wasn’t much they could do at that point since Shelby ten-ringed him, but they just left him laying there while it appears officers go around to clear the right side of the vehicle.  Is that policy?  Why were they worried there was someone else in the vehicle who was a threat?

-Perhaps the camera in Shelby’s unit will reveal how this went terribly wrong so quickly.  Clearly there could have been more restraint shown by officers Turnbough and Shelby.  But, what we still don’t know is why was Crutcher perceived as such a serious threat to Shelby in the first place?  What was said, what were his actions which we have not seen nor heard prior to the two videos released thus far?

One scenario which has played through my head is when something goes wrong with Crutcher’s car, out of frustration he gets out of the car and walks off to the side of the road to take a leak and call a friend for help.  He gets wound up and is waiving his arms and talking loudly out of frustration.  Or he could have been doing that anyhow, not on his phone, just venting. The cop pulls up and automatically assumes he’s on PCP or drunk and starts yelling commands which freaks him out. I know I’ve been known to go off when something unfortunate and ill-timed happens to me, maybe not to the level of looking like I was on drugs or drunk, but you get the point.

It is easy to judge someone else’s job when we have not been in the same high stress situation.  I’m not picking sides here, but I’d like to know what happened to create the response of at least four or five back up units PLUS air support within minutes.  This in itself seems highly unusual but I’m not a cop and I’m not certain how these things work.  I am fairly sure a simple DUI stop or mobile meth lab doesn’t warrant this sort of response.

This shows Chief Jordan saying they will NOT cover anything up at 2:00.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tulsa-police-release-dashcam-video-fatal-shooting-124825150.html


And lots of commentary about what is involved in gathering all the video and compiling (editing!) for release.  Some questions immediately arise....

- Where is the video from Shelby's car?  Especially for the minutes leading up to this!  Would not have taken 10 minutes more than retrieving the videos already released.

- Where is the audio from her car?  Again, especially for the minutes before what they are showing so far.


Your scenario is probably more typical than not - breakdowns like that are frustrating and I see many people go through gyrations after that type of event just as an adrenaline 'release' mechanism.  Ranting and raving about one's stupid car is not cause for the death penalty.


Already, editing and selective visibility has occurred.  I like what he has made happen so far, but Chief Jordan and his department will have to move quicker and get ahead of this better if any credibility is to be maintained/retained.

Sometime after 7:30 p.m. September 16, dispatchers received two 911 calls. The first call came from a woman who said an abandoned vehicle was blocking a road.

"Somebody left their vehicle running in the middle of the street with their doors wide open," the caller said. "The doors are open, the vehicle is still running. It's an SUV. It's in the middle of the street, it's blocking traffic.”

The woman also told the 911 operator that "the guy was running from [the vehicle]" after explaining to her it was going to "blow up.”

Shelby, who is white, was headed to a domestic violence call when she arrived first at the scene of Crutcher's stalled vehicle. Shelby told the dispatcher that "she's not having cooperation" from Crutcher, according to Chief Jordan at a Monday news conference. The police chief declined to offer more information regarding the lack of cooperation Shelby faced.

When Shelby arrived, Crutcher was on the side of the road, away from his vehicle. He then approached Shelby, police said.

We paid for the dash cams. Lots of cops feel they are intrusive and resent the big brother attitude. But they are there for their own defense, not as a weapon. Do your job as trained and you have no need to worry. I have eight cameras and a hard drive on my bus and people can monitor me real time as I drive. Its my only defense against scams and liars. But if I put a coffee cup over the camera....

I also want to say I've spent a lot of time in North Tulsa over the last few years. A broken down car in the middle of the road is neither uncommon or indicative of poor mental state. Its a poor area with small town atmosphere. People take care of each other. Real different culture than south of 71st where likely AAA picks up your car. Just sayin'...

Regardless of how hard the decision was under pressure, with distractions, nerves, helicopter,

ABC reported that the dash cam wasn't on because she never activated her lights or siren.

ABC reported that the dash cam wasn't on because she never activated her lights or siren.

Shelby's dash cam was not on. Officers control when it is on or off. Many departments mandate it be on any all interactions with the public, Tulsa stated they don't have a policy that covered this interaction so the Officer can do as they please. Toggle one = back lights. Toggle 2 = lights and camera. Toggle 3 lights, siren and camera.

Looking back at the videos, the LIGHT BAR IS ON and flashing prior to the arrival of other units, so this is a big discrepancy.

The Panasonic Arbitrator cameras have multiple triggers (airbags, etc) which can be set in software, and lightbar activation is on by default.
They can also be set to record continuously, or motion-activated, which goes thru a lot of memory but these systems can go about 3 days before running out.

I don't think anything on that video would in some way help Shelby.  I think it would show what lead to the escalation that lead to pulling the gun out.  Also, an idea of the body language of the victim.

As far as helping her avoid criminal charges it won’t help.  But as CF points out, the elements of 2nd degree manslaughter are very apparent here.  Regardless of how the officer was provoked, it would appear she was negligent when she shot Crutcher.

It looks like TPD will defend the shooting.  One tactic that seems to be emerging is the emphasis on Shelby, who was apparently not only a medical first responder but a "Drug Recognition Expert" now claiming the victim was on PCP.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tulsa-fatally-shot-terence-crutcher-pcp-article-1.2799465

There's too many cops involved for TPD to just throw her under the bus.   Even the JAFO was a drug recognition expert:  "Looks like a bad dude, too. Could be on something."

How would showing what led to the escalation not in some way help the officer?

As it is, most people reading the headlines are thinking she cowboyed it and shot him because he’s black and she’s racist.  At least seeing his actions which led to her unholstering her weapon might be of help at least in terms of public opinion and helping to ease racial tension in the community.  Diffusing that tension as well as tension with the TPD would be good things.

As far as helping her avoid criminal charges it won’t help.  But as CF points out, the elements of 2nd degree manslaughter are very apparent here.  Regardless of how the officer was provoked, it would appear she was negligent when she shot Crutcher.

Tulsa World is now reporting PCP was found in Crutcher’s car.  I would assume the autopsy and toxicology would be very closely monitored.  I’d expect the family will want their own autopsy done.

This would make parking/breaking down in the middle of the road make a lot more sense. You still can't shoot people just because they might be on drugs or have a mental illness either.

Because a person having their hands in their pockets doesn't justify shooting them when they don't pose a threat. If he posed a big enough threat earlier he would have already been shot.

His hands were not in his pocket for at least the minute + before she shot him.  They were in the air.

No matter what her lawyer says...the video is clear.

His hands were not in his pocket for at least the minute + before she shot him.  They were in the air.

No matter what her lawyer says...the video is clear.

Actually, it’s not that clear.  Shelby and Turnbough block the camera’s view of Crutcher in the final seconds before he’s shot and tazed.  The helicopter was on the RH side of his vehicle when he went down.  It’s hard to tell where his hands were even when the helicopter was hovering on the driver’s side when crutcher was at the door of his vehicle.  In one screen grab the TW is using from that angle it does not appear to me his hands are still up.

/Edit: From the screen grab, the angle of his shoulders could indicate he is reaching forward into the vehicle or still had hands up.  It’s too grainy to see hands.

Actually, it’s not that clear.  Shelby and Turnbough block the camera’s view of Crutcher in the final seconds before he’s shot and tazed.  The helicopter was on the RH side of his vehicle when he went down.  It’s hard to tell where his hands were even when the helicopter was hovering on the driver’s side when crutcher was at the door of his vehicle.  In one screen grab the TW is using from that angle it does not appear to me his hands are still up.

/Edit: From the screen grab, the angle of his shoulders could indicate he is reaching forward into the vehicle or still had hands up.  It’s too grainy to see hands.

His lawyer showed a blow up pic of the drivers side window. It is up and blood was found on the outside of the window. Tests for PCP have not been concluded. It may be something else. I sure didn't see any action that would have created fear for her life. Unless he was going to break the window, reach in after being tasered, grab a weapon and face off with the officers. I don't see it.

Edit: interesting that Channel 6 continues to report that a vial of PCP was found in the car, even though it is a vial of clear liquid until tests prove otherwise. Then of course there is the chain of possession issue. Where was it found, or was it placed, tox reports on the victim. Minor stuff to Channel 6 I guess.

But let's be clear, reaching into a car alone is not enough to justify shooting someone.

In spite of every effort to make this transparent, this really has a bad smell. No camera footage on the officers car even though the lights were activated. Thought the victim was reaching into the car even though she had closed the doors herself upon arrival after looking around the inside of the car. He had his hands up til he was tasered when his natural physical response got him shot. Later, he is described as acting like he was on some kind of drug, and voila! A vile of clear liquid shows up in the car. Of course, it must be PCP. Whatever. He was never considered innocent.

It seems the guy never had a chance once the police arrived to help.

The PCP is just the latest lie they started with last Friday and continue through today.  Just the same ole 'stuff'....

I think it's pretty clear that the officer never should have discharged her weapon, and for that matter maybe she didn't even mean too. I obviously am speculating but it looks accidental to me. Cops can't make those mistakes though. That does not mean the officer did not commit a crime per our laws. That being said, due process people. We don't string people up on a whim anymore.

Easily the most disturbing thing about the whole situation was the apparent indifference to a man bleeding to death on the pavement. I know it was probably only a minute or two but watching the videos it felt like an eternity. There were multiple officers on site, were they concerned about him attacking or something? Again, is this really protocol? Even the comments requesting EMSA seemed pretty lackadaisical.

And someone earlier mentioned that cars being left in the middle (literally the middle) of the street was normal in North Tulsa. Really? It's not a whole other country or anything for goodness sake.

Hearkening back to Conan's words earlier about getting a CCL, and this is something I have been thinking all week. I have been comparing this situation to not wearing a seat belt. If I chose not to wear a seat belt, that doesn't necessarily condemn me to death, nor do I deserve to die, however I have to live (or die) with the consequences that my life may be out of my hands at the moment, that the actions of another could end my life in the blink of an eye.

I'm not blaming the victim, because he WAS unjustly killed, but before the officer shot him, there were a lot of choices made, choices that ultimately had several officers weapons drawn. I don't know what they were but I'm guessing different choices would not have led to weapons being drawn. I have yet to hear of a police officer shooting when their weapon was still holstered. And it would have to be a lot more than he was a big black person. And again, the choices that the police made could have been unwise too. Maybe they are too jumpy. I just don't know. All speculation.

Or is that just the mentality of cops when in North Tulsa? Admittedly I do not have intimate knowledge of the workings of North Tulsa, even less so the workings of police altercations in North Tulsa. Do a higher proportion result in drawn weapons? Do police officers act differently in certain parts of town, certain parts of North Tulsa? If so, is it justifiable, or are we still working off of old realities? Big questions, difficult answers. And sometimes the answers are difficult because they are not what we want them to be (not that it is necessarily the case here, but it can be sometimes).

I’d like to think I’d have the patience to actually see a weapon in someone’s hand before having to make that split second decision.  I’d like to think the taser would have been sufficient to subdue him, but I’ve not been in that situation and hope to never be.

Which is why we have a professional police force that is well paid, well educated, and well trained. That's why there is so much respect and why we give them so much power. That's why we expect them to perform at a high level. It's a tough job that must be performed at a high level. When ti isn't, someones rights are violated and the community loses trust in the government.

And someone earlier mentioned that cars being left in the middle (literally the middle) of the street was normal in North Tulsa. Really? It's not a whole other country or anything for goodness sake.

Or is that just the mentality of cops when in North Tulsa? Admittedly I do not have intimate knowledge of the workings of North Tulsa, even less so the workings of police altercations in North Tulsa. Do a higher proportion result in drawn weapons? Do police officers act differently in certain parts of town, certain parts of North Tulsa? If so, is it justifiable, or are we still working off of old realities?

When you have a former Tulsa police chief stand with the protestors and lambast the current leadership, that lends cred to the assertion that things have deteriorated.

As for cred, suppressing Shelby's dashcam video to prop up a weak and over-used narrative would only hurt them in the long run.

What is the news on Shelby's dashcam? Are they still saying it wasn't activated even though the lights were on?

Yes. Every official who has discussed it and every report I have heard on it says the same thing. Tulsa police emergency system has a three toggle system:

0 = off
1 = rear lights (direction lights)
2 = overhead lights and camera
3 = all lights, siren, and camera

She parked and put her car in #1. I suppose that's not unusual for a routine stop when an officer thinks they may just be pushing a vehicle to the side of the road or blocking traffic. I have no reason to doubt that's how the system actual works, I haven't heard a credible source dispute it either. Clearly, it would be a stupid lie it that wasn't how the system works. Unfortunately, it may be impossible to disprove the theory that the video was destroyed.

https://www.readfrontier.com/spotlight/police-promise-achieve-justice-investigate-continues-death-terence-crutcher/
Tulsa World reports the same

Every official who has discussed it and every report I have heard on it says the same thing. Tulsa police emergency system has a three toggle system:

0 = off
1 = rear lights (direction lights)
2 = overhead lights and camera
3 = all lights, siren, and camera

She parked and put her car in #1. I suppose that's not unusual for a routine stop when an officer thinks they may just be pushing a vehicle to the side of the road or blocking traffic. I have no reason to doubt that's how the system actual works, I haven't heard a credible source dispute it either. Clearly, it would be a stupid lie it that wasn't how the system works. Unfortunately, it may be impossible to disprove the theory that the video was destroyed.


https://www.readfrontier.com/spotlight/police-promise-achieve-justice-investigate-continues-death-terence-crutcher/
Tulsa World reports the same

That's exactly how the lights/toggle system works with the camera.  All the news tonight is focusing on how poorly Charlotte, NC is dealing with a somewhat similar situation.  I'm proud that Tulsa is, so far, dealing with this in a much more reasonable, thoughtful, community-wide manner.  I would hope that we could refrain from non-fact based conjecture and give our system time to discern exactly what happened before we start assigning the blame to either the victim or police officer.  Tulsa has chosen the route of transparency and avoided the riot-geared police force which seems to have exacerbated the situation in Charlotte.

I don't think that's how the lights/siren toggle system works with the camera.

If the lights/siren toggle system does work that way with the camera, then after watching the helicopter video, I'd say that Officer Shelby's system must have been toggled to 2 or 3 (with camera on), and couldn't have been 0 or 1 (with camera off).

About 54 seconds after Mr. Crutcher is shot, Officer Dunn's vehicle passes in front of Shelby's and to the right of Crutcher's.  Dunn's lights are toggled off (to 0 or possibly 1) for a few seconds, but the video continues.  Obviously, Dunn's camera was recording without the overhead lights toggled on (to 2 or 3).

After time mark 42:18 in Officer Roy's video, I don't see the flash of any overhead lights.  About 20 seconds later, the headlights are turned off, also.  However, the video continues until 48:27, so Roy's camera was recording for at least six minutes without the overhead lights toggled on (to 2 or 3).

Here are my thoughts.

First and foremost, if you don't like or trust the police, don't put yourself in a position to have to deal with them.
If you do have to deal with them, be polite and follow their instructions.

That said,
Regardless of what has come out on Crutcher's past, the PCP in his vehicle, and the fact that he certainly appears to not be following the officers instructions, there was absolutely zero reason for him to have been shot. None. There was zero indication of imminent threat. The type of person he was absolutely doesn't matter in this situation as TPD did not even know his name when he was shot.

When she was alone with him and he wasn't following commands, I understand her drawing her firearm due to the size difference between him and her. Once backup arrived, she should have holstered it and pulled out the taser.

Fortunately for Tulsa, We the People is an organization truly committed to going about things correctly and not fanning the flames with the, "this person was a good citizen, father, brother, child, and church goer, who was thinking about improving his life" or the "police are racists rants" but are working peacefully with a police chief who also seems to truly be willing to be open about his department and doing things the right way.



I believe all police departments should have cameras in every car and ideally on every officers chest to protect them and the citizens they work for and those tapes should be released in their entirety(from the time the officers get the call until the call is over) after an incident such as this.

I also think this officer should be arrested and charged now as there is no evidence presented thus far to indicate the shooting was justified at any level.

Big, big disagreement with your first statement - I am thoroughly convinced that if he had the choice, he would have been driving a brand new dependable car - maybe a Lexus?  Or Mercedes? - that would not have broken down.  I know I would be.  There is no way on this planet that he put himself into this position of having to deal with the police.  This is trying to throw it back on him - as in his fault...



As for PCP, that's probably just gonna end up being another one of the lies they tried to push on this deal.  She had already been to the car.  As part of standard operating procedure, no doubt checked it out for weapons and drugs and found nothing.  Closed the doors to "secure" it.  Then sometime after the shooting, this was "found"...??   Right.....

Big, big disagreement with your first statement - I am thoroughly convinced that if he had the choice, he would have been driving a brand new dependable car - maybe a Lexus?  Or Mercedes? - that would not have broken down.  I know I would be.  There is no way on this planet that he put himself into this position of having to deal with the police.  This is trying to throw it back on him - as in his fault...



As for PCP, that's probably just gonna end up being another one of the lies they tried to push on this deal.  She had already been to the car.  As part of standard operating procedure, no doubt checked it out for weapons and drugs and found nothing.  Closed the doors to "secure" it.  Then sometime after the shooting, this was "found"...??   Right.....

If the lights/siren toggle system does work that way with the camera, then after watching the helicopter video, I'd say that Officer Shelby's system must have been toggled to 2 or 3 (with camera on), and couldn't have been 0 or 1 (with camera off).

Did you even read my entire statement or just gloss over it?
As I said, if you do have to deal with them, follow the officers directives... which he obviously did not do.

The reports were an abandoned or stalled vehicle blocking traffic... but the vehicle was running so I'm not sure if there was actually a problem with the vehicle or what.

And again, as I said, I still have not seen a single reason for him to have been shot. His actions that I have seen barely justify a taser.

That's exactly how the lights/toggle system works with the camera.  All the news tonight is focusing on how poorly Charlotte, NC is dealing with a somewhat similar situation.  I'm proud that Tulsa is, so far, dealing with this in a much more reasonable, thoughtful, community-wide manner.  I would hope that we could refrain from non-fact based conjecture and give our system time to discern exactly what happened before we start assigning the blame to either the victim or police officer.  Tulsa has chosen the route of transparency and avoided the riot-geared police force which seems to have exacerbated the situation in Charlotte.

So, after looking at the videos and comparing what I saw to cannon_fodder's toggle explanation, I doubt if the lights/siren toggle works with dashcam exactly as he described.

So are we all deciding to refute every single thing that Shelby has said happened (that I posted above)?

Honestly, if every single thing she said was true, I can still see that she made a gigantic mistake by discharging her weapon.

The big issue here is why did Crutcher stop his car in the middle of the street like that with the engine running and walk away, to any cop that comes along it looks like someone left a stolen car there and fled on foot, or it could also be a set-up to ambush any cop that stops for it. It's likely Crutcher was high PCP or meth and did not know what was going on or what he was doing so he stopped his car in the middle of the street and got out and walked around. The cop said he was un-responsive & would not say much and he kept putting his hand in his pockets and he was warned 3 times not to do that. He could have a gun in there and shoot right thru the pocket. The whole thing was one big grim situation. If Crutcher parked on the side of the road it never would of attracted attention. Not really sure what to make of this, have to wait for lab reports I guess.

Oh, geez....maybe he stopped because the car was having trouble...??   If you had ever driven a car, you might understand that the engine can actually run, while the car is inoperable or at least dangerous to drive. 

Yeah....likely that he just attended class and got high right then.... could be. 

Oh, geez....maybe he stopped because the car was having trouble...??   If you had ever driven a car, you might understand that the engine can actually run, while the car is inoperable or at least dangerous to drive. 

Yeah....likely that he just attended class and got high right then.... could be. 

It would be more believable if he hadn't left and told others it was going to explode.

FYI

District attorney calls for first-degree manslaughter charge against officer in fatal shooting of Terence Crutcher

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/district-attorney-calls-for-first-degree-manslaughter-charge-against-officer/article_e5cc9bee-6300-5f1f-bc0b-e45dd7fd356f.html

Even if Shelby's dashcam wasn't triggered by the light bar, it still recorded to the buffer, which could have been forensically extracted at a later time.

That charge seems to properly fit what happened.

And, as well, a car can continue to run after you hallucinate and see a dragon in the passenger seat and flee the vehicle claiming it's going to blow.

I mean it does happen.

I have had it happen to me a couple of times.  Turns out it wasn't real....

Seems like they said he was talking about it catching fire... coulda smelled a gas leak.  Or anti-freeze.  Or who knows what....?  Overheated brakes.  Transmission 'burning' out.  Electrical short in dash.  Dropped cigarette on carpet or upholstery.

Several possible sources of fire in a car...haven't covered half of them....

Well, one 911 caller said she thought he was "smoking something".  I'm not making that up.

That seems reasonable to me.

What doesn't make sense is why Officer Shelby's camera wasn't activated.  Her light bar appeared to be flashing, which means the lights were toggled to 2 or 3, as explained in cannon_fodder's description.

There wasn't a class for him to leave.

The videos are from around 7:45pm.

https://banweb.tulsacc.edu/PROD/bwckschd.p_disp_dyn_sched

Select fall, then select after 430 and fri sat and sun evening and tell me there was no class for him to be leaving. Sorry I would screenshot but there are far to many classes for that.
 

Every official who has discussed it and every report I have heard on it says the same thing. Tulsa police emergency system has a three toggle system:

0 = off
1 = rear lights (direction lights)
2 = overhead lights and camera
3 = all lights, siren, and camera

She parked and put her car in #1.

Technology fails. In twenty years in the tech field I have had stuff fail out of the box, after first use, and then again had things run constantly for years and not fail. Equipment in police cars tend to have short life spans because it's in a harsh enviroment. Now if it's proven that it was tampered with that's a different issue.

Says who?  The helicopter video indicates #2 or #3, not #1.

I agree that technology fails sometimes.  What I'm doubting is the statement that Officer Shelby parked her vehicle and toggled on to #1.  That doesn't vibe with the helicopter video.  It was toggled to #2 or #3 in the helicopter video, or so it seems to me and others on the this forum.

Not disagreeing with that, just commenting on a possible equipment failure. We had similar technology failures in police cars at the municipality I worked for from the computer, radios, and cameras.
 

Shelby’s dash cam was not functioning during the shooting. Tulsa police vehicles work on a three toggle system — when the switch is flipped to “level one,” as Shelby’s car was that night, only the lights in the rear window are active and the siren and camera remain off.

At level two, the overhead lights and camera activate. At three, all lights are on, as are the camera and the siren.

“She had it on one, because it appeared she just thought she came up on a stalled car,” Public Information Officer Shane Tuell said. “You can hear it in her voice, she says, ‘I just came up on an abandoned car.’ ”

Shelby turned on her police car's rear flashing lights only when stopping to approach Crutcher, which meant her dash camera did not turn on, Sgt. Shane Tuell told reporters Monday.

Attorney Scott Wood, who has represented Shelby so far, said there are about two unrecorded minutes of interaction between Shelby and Crutcher.

I've been warned by 3 separate different people this afternoon that "riots" are expected at 71st and Hwy 169. All cited a third party who "heard it from the Police." Two mentioned the same church "being evacuated" ahead of time (even though that Church is well away from the supposed "riot" area).

Twitter has a few people talking about a protest at 169... they all heard it from someone, usually someone close to someone important. Blathering about stores closing early and hospitals calling in extra staff.

Sounds like people wanting there to be "excitement" with no actual issues going on. Hopefully it stays that way.

My son is an armed security officer. He was called to work early on the basis of this rumor. I'm  hoping he has a very quiet, even boring night.

That charge seems to properly fit what happened.

I've been warned by 3 separate different people this afternoon that "riots" are expected at 71st and Hwy 169. All cited a third party who "heard it from the Police." Two mentioned the same church "being evacuated" ahead of time (even though that Church is well away from the supposed "riot" area).

Twitter has a few people talking about a protest at 169... they all heard it from someone, usually someone close to someone important. Blathering about stores closing early and hospitals calling in extra staff.

Sounds like people wanting there to be "excitement" with no actual issues going on. Hopefully it stays that way.

Says who?  The helicopter video indicates #2 or #3, not #1.

I agree that technology fails sometimes.  What I'm doubting is the statement that Officer Shelby parked her vehicle and toggled on to #1.  That doesn't jibe with the helicopter video.  It was toggled to #2 or #3 in the helicopter video, or so it seems to me and to others on this forum.

... not that they have to announce every step in the investigation, of course.

I honestly don't know that the dash cam would make all that much difference in the end. Does anyone really think something on their is going to move this up a degree in charges? I know it seems to create a sense that the force is hiding something, but does anyone really think this cop just flipped and went targeting Mr. Crutcher? Seems pretty unlikely to me.

Similarly, the fact that Mr. Crutcher has a less than stellar record or may have been high as a kite really has little bearing as to whether Officer Shelby deserves to be convicted of Manslaughter or not.

I honestly don't know that the dash cam would make all that much difference in the end. Does anyone really think something on their is going to move this up a degree in charges? I know it seems to create a sense that the force is hiding something, but does anyone really think this cop just flipped and went targeting Mr. Crutcher? Seems pretty unlikely to me.

Similarly, the fact that Mr. Crutcher has a less than stellar record or may have been high as a kite really has little bearing as to whether Officer Shelby deserves to be convicted of Manslaughter or not.

Its only use at this point would be for the PR benefit to the TPD which would come along with illustrating there was a reason for Officer Shelby to have her weapon drawn in the first place.  It might show that Terence Crutcher was out of his mind at the time of the encounter.  It doesn’t mitigate the fact that she was negligent when she fired her weapon but it might help defuse the notion that Crutcher’s race was the only reason she’d pulled a gun on him.

Shelby’s dash cam was not functioning during the shooting. Tulsa police vehicles work on a three toggle system — when the switch is flipped to “level one,” as Shelby’s car was that night, only the lights in the rear window are active and the siren and camera remain off.

At level two, the overhead lights and camera activate. At three, all lights are on, as are the camera and the siren.

“She had it on one, because it appeared she just thought she came up on a stalled car,” Public Information Officer Shane Tuell said. “You can hear it in her voice, she says, ‘I just came up on an abandoned car.’ ”

Shelby turned on her police car's rear flashing lights only when stopping to approach Crutcher, which meant her dash camera did not turn on, Sgt. Shane Tuell told reporters Monday.

I find it hard to make the reach that something on that video (if it truly does exist) would be so damning as to demand this sort of deceitfulness.

Anyone ever consider that maybe they are suppressing it for the family. Disparaging the dead potentially? Just seems like the force, while supportive of one of their own, at the same time has done everything else the way they should, and understand that the punishment for one of their sisters is likely to be prison time.

Junk science and a favorite defense in these cases... Pretending it's real, she was THAT stressed out by a noncompliant nonshsoect after 10 years in law enforcement?

An interesting excerpt from a law enforcement magazine with a story from a Los Angeles detective.

"There is a gap between the officer’s last radio transmission and when the helicopter arrived on scene that none of us have any concrete evidence as to what happened. I have not seen concrete evidence that she had a body cam and didn’t use it or what the story is about that. She may have done that on purpose or maybe she didn’t (Editor’s Note:  Sources indicate that TPD does not have body cameras). We don’t know and any opinions at this point are simply opinions. It will be interesting to hear what she says happened during this period."

She really gives a good account of what may have happened from a detective's perspective.

Here's the link. http://lawofficer.com/2016/09/detectivetulsa/

Oh, geez....maybe he stopped because the car was having trouble...??   If you had ever driven a car, you might understand that the engine can actually run, while the car is inoperable or at least dangerous to drive. 

Yeah....likely that he just attended class and got high right then.... could be. 

Its only use at this point would be for the PR benefit to the TPD which would come along with illustrating there was a reason for Officer Shelby to have her weapon drawn in the first place.  It might show that Terence Crutcher was out of his mind at the time of the encounter.  It doesn’t mitigate the fact that she was negligent when she fired her weapon but it might help defuse the notion that Crutcher’s race was the only reason she’d pulled a gun on him.

People high on PCP don't follow directions well, Terence  kept putting his hands in his pockets, he didn't respond to questions she asked him- a gun hidden in the pockets could still be fired right thru the pocket in a nano second, and lets be fair the Crutcher family suffered a severe loss but it flips both ways- they need to be truthful too Terence was not the good guy they made him out to be he had a long criminal record & rap sheet, that does not mean he should of been shot- however put your self in the cops position with someone un-responsive who has their hands in their pockets what would you do? IMO I think the only reason they charged the cop so fast was to avoid civil un-rest, "mob rule".

Do you have proof he was on PCP?  His 'lengthy rap sheet'?  Check OSCN.  He was charged in 1996 for a concealed weapon, which was ultimately dismissed.  Some traffic violations as well.  Stop listening to idiots like Sean Hannity.  Even the KRMG reporter he was interviewing said his criminal history wasn't very long.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sean-hannity-rebuffed-smear-terence-crutcher-article-1.2802715

 

I'm not sure what OSCN is supposed to have in it's database, but it's either not showing cases that resulted in prison, or other people are lying about him. Not sure which it is.

Has anyone said that the car was working or not? That would say a lot about a lot as to whether of not he was incapacitated.

All this being said, I still find it hard to say the shooting was justified. She certainly seemed to have made a huge mistake.

Look yourself up in OSCN.  If you have had contact with courts it is there.

If that statement about being in prison was true it would be there.  What do ya wanna bet it's just another "sauerkraut style" lie**...?


**Something that has been proven to be the exact opposite of what he is saying, but he continues to spread the falsehood.

That could also be referred to as a "Sean Hannity".

Wider scope - ALL of Faux News....the "entertainment" channel....  Biggest of their lies.

Maybe so, but I have a hard time believing the Tribune (actually it was AP) and those others mentioned above are ever on the "same page" so to speak.

I noticed that the wrap sheet list that is making the rounds on the internet appears to me to be a different TerAnce Crutcher. Is the AP also using the wrong name? I searched on OSCN and didn't find anything for the spellings I have seen for Terence. Or are Oklahoma records lying?

I don't see the need to sugar coat his past, since in this case it should have little bearing on the outcome, unless the officer knew him personally from prior experience (which I doubt).

OSCN sometimes spells names wrong. But you can usually click on the defendants name and get a physical description, last known address, and birthday.  That can help make sure you are looking at the right person, or looking at the same person if there are different spellings. It can help, but it is no guarantee.

You can do an offender look up on the ODOC web site.  For some reason it is not working this morning.  Google “ODOC offender lookup” and it will bring up the link.

The Trib was correct, he’s most definitely been a guest of the ODOC.

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=556091&offender_book_id=333041

Newspaper and this site keep using an E in the middle. ODOC lists aliases of Terance, Terrance, and Terrence. None of which are used by the news sites.

Regardless of history - this event is what counts, and no matter how much someone is trying to cast him as "bad dude" - they had no idea about that when this occurred.  And certainly nothing rose to the level of capital punishment.

...could Shelby's video have been so outrageous as to make city leaders fear it triggering rioting?

Shelby turned on her police car's rear flashing lights only when stopping to approach Crutcher, which meant her dash camera did not turn on, Sgt. Shane Tuell told reporters Monday.

Shelby’s dash cam was not functioning during the shooting. Tulsa police vehicles work on a three toggle system — when the switch is flipped to “level one,” as Shelby’s car was that night, only the lights in the rear window are active and the siren and camera remain off.

At level two, the overhead lights and camera activate. At three, all lights are on, as are the camera and the siren.

“She had it on one, because it appeared she just thought she came up on a stalled car,” Public Information Officer Shane Tuell said. “You can hear it in her voice, she says, ‘I just came up on an abandoned car.’ ”

TPD suit ends with dash cameras ordered

A federal judge approved a settlement in a racial discrimination lawsuit against the city of Tulsa. The action ended 16 years of litigation in the class-action case brought by black police officers. U.S. District Judge Terence Kern signed an agreement calling for the city to purchase, install and maintain video cameras for all Tulsa Police Department patrol vehicles over a period of five years. The city was also ordered to pay for data storage of information captured by the cameras.

Why pay to have the cameras installed and then not activate them?  Why not store data from the cameras and keep that information so it can be retrieved later?
  

Throwback Tulsa: Police cameras and the legacy of Officer Gus Spanos

The murder of a 24-year-old rookie Tulsa police officer during a traffic stop shocked the community in 1993.

Spanos had been an offensive lineman on the University of Tulsa football team and earned a bachelor’s degree in education before entering the police academy.

He and his wife, Christie, were nearing their second anniversary and had lived in their new southside brick home for only two months. She told Tulsa World reporter David Fallis that Spanos loved his job, his life and kids.

“I think he touched a lot of the northside kids’ hearts,” she said.

His death resulted in a fund drive that raised more than $500,000 to buy and install camcorders in 117 of the 400 Tulsa police cars.

Spanos had radioed a dispatcher shortly before 2 a.m. on April 22, 1993, and provided a tag number and description of a car he had pulled over on 58th Street North, just east of Cincinnati Avenue.

Minutes later, a fellow officer found Spanos lying unconscious in a pool of blood in the street about 10 feet from his car. His gun, which had not been fired, was nearby.

Spanos died the next day of massive brain damage from a shot that struck him behind the right ear, the medical examiner said. He is among 39 Tulsa police officers killed in the line of duty.

During the trial, Assistant District Attorney Doug Horn said Kimbrough “assassinated” Spanos to avoid arrest on outstanding drug and firearms warrants and because he had $27,000 worth of cocaine in his possession.

Kimbrough was convicted of first-degree murder on May 25, 1994. He was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole after the jury deadlocked 10-2 on the death penalty. He also received a life sentence for cocaine trafficking.

Shortly after the Spanos shooting, a Tulsa woman launched “Camcorders for Cops,” a fundraising drive to equip Tulsa police patrol cars with camcorders.

“The tragic shooting of Officer Spanos and the escape of the perpetrator demonstrates a great need for this equipment,” Gloria DeMier said.

Her husband, Tulsa County assistant district attorney Fred DeMier, said he believed the cameras would be a deterrent to anyone considering assaulting an officer.

Their son, Fred DeMier Jr., was a retired police officer who had survived being shot by a mental patient in 1981.

As a result of the fund drive, Tulsa Police Chief Ron Palmer said in October 1993 that his department would soon have 120 video cameras in its patrol cars.

“We’re going to be breaking a lot of new ground,” Palmer said of a metropolitan area putting the new technology into such wide usage.

However, a University of Tulsa law professor cautioned that the cameras opened a “Pandora’s Box” that would force police to address far-reaching issues such as privacy and the handling of evidence.

A year later, some officers said they had pulled the plug on the cameras, fearing that the tapes were being monitored by supervisors or the Internal Affairs Unit.

“There’s some apprehension,” said one officer, who asked not to be identified. “They’re a great tool for DUIs, but they can be used against you. That’s what bothers us. It’s like Big Brother watching over your shoulder.”

Others said the cameras malfunctioned frequently, were a hassle to use and obscured the view because they were attached to the windshield.

By 1998, only 69 of the units were still being used and a decade after Gus Spanos died, the camera program had been abandoned.

In 2010, a federal judge approved a settlement between black police officers and the city of Tulsa, requiring the city to install cameras in police cars and maintain them for five years.

The city spent $4 million for the equipment. But the computer processors that worked with the dash cameras proved too weak and the Sprint network connection had dead spots.

The problems persisted and only about 200 of the department’s 500 patrol cars have functioning dash cameras, officials said in September.

Meanwhile, the department has plans to outfit its 700-plus officers with body cameras this year at a cost of $1.2 million. Half of the money is from a Department of Justice matching grant. The goal is to increase trust and accountability between law enforcement agencies and their communities.

Sand Springs has used body cameras for over seven years. Other area cities using them include Owasso, Muskogee, Tahlequah, Okmulgee and Henryetta.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-police-cameras-and-the-legacy-of-officer-gus/article_182e3dfa-ab55-52a7-b3f8-484f8a968cb7.html

After watching four different police videos, I'd say that Betty Shelby had her toggle switch set to at least level two, not to level one.  In my opinion, unless it malfunctioned, her camera should have been activated by the toggle system, as explained by Sgt. Tuell.

But today, from Dan Smolen, we're hearing that there are other ways to activate the camera:

1. Hitting the bumper of the vehicle
2. Pressing a button on a microphone worn on duty belts or elsewhere
3. Pressing the red "RECORD" button on the in-car camera
4. Pressing a button in the in-car computer

Pre/post recording up to 90 seconds. Which would have much of the missing 2 minutes when she first stopped. Whatever, they're just waiting for this to pass from top of mind consciousness. Should take a couple more weeks.

Anyone remember what happened to the cop who shot his daughters boyfriend to death?

Losing a lot of faith in tv news recently and cancelled the TW. So, basically happier, a bit out of touch and much better company for others.
 

Losing a lot of faith in tv news recently and cancelled the TW. So, basically happier, a bit out of touch and much better company for others.
 

Do you have proof he was on PCP?  His 'lengthy rap sheet'?  Check OSCN.  He was charged in 1996 for a concealed weapon, which was ultimately dismissed.  Some traffic violations as well.  Stop listening to idiots like Sean Hannity.  Even the KRMG reporter he was interviewing said his criminal history wasn't very long.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sean-hannity-rebuffed-smear-terence-crutcher-article-1.2802715

Still waiting for the tox report.

Regardless of history - this event is what counts, and no matter how much someone is trying to cast him as "bad dude" - they had no idea about that when this occurred.  And certainly nothing rose to the level of capital punishment.

They had some idea they were not dealing with a boy scout when PCP was found in the car, The shooting happened when he did not remove his hands from his pockets, anyone remember the cop who did wait a second too long and ended up gurgling blood as he was calling for help on his radio? Cops want to go home to their family too. This is about split second dessions - people with guns like to keep their hands in their pockets. Tampering with a dash camera would be a crime, would a cop want to risk that?

I’ve said you were out of touch for years, Aqua!

You can just check in about every week or two and be as up to date as if stayed in front of tv/computer all day long.  Nothing new really occurs very often....mostly just the same ole things over and over.  This place is about as up to date as any other source.  And then can google for a deep dive to get details....

What are you talking about??   This is the Terence Crutcher thread.  You remember a week ago, don't you, when the videos showed him with his hands in the air?  Maybe not...


Are you kidding??  Or even more oblivious than normal?   This cop committed a crime by killing him in the first place.  Planting a little PCP, or other drug, is no big deal - it is an "honored tradition" by a few TPD officers going back at least to the 60's.  As for tampering a dash cam...well that is a non-event in the world of crime - there is never a consequence for that.  Ever.


Since I don't really know what it is you are on when you do these posts, I can't tailor it to the moment, but I do recommend this as a catch-all, cover a wide range of possibilities for your listening enjoyment while impaired!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0&index=11&list=RDInRDF_0lfHk

This cop committed a crime by killing him in the first place.  Planting a little PCP, or other drug, is no big deal - it is an "honored tradition" by a few TPD officers going back at least to the 60's.  As for tampering a dash cam...well that is a non-event in the world of crime - there is never a consequence for that.  Ever.

Before Terence Crutcher’s flesh came to live and dwell among us as a hashtag, a police officer in a helicopter said that he looked like a “bad dude” who was probably “on something.” Deeply problematic, likely racist, and perhaps miscalculated, the officer started a familiar narrative that is often used to justify two types of violence. First, it justifies police escalation while the person is still alive. Second, it starts to rationalize police action once the victim is killed.

Police departments, prosecutors, and mainstream media fall deeper into character assassination after the victim’s death, releasing untimely or irrelevant information to further rationalize the killer’s actions. The public quickly learned of Michael Brown’s encounter with a store clerk before his murder, and of the autopsy report revealing marijuana in his system. A prosecutor suggested that Tamir’s family had “economic motives” in the outcome of the grand jury process. News outlets chose to circulate Sam DuBose’s mugshot, the victim, and not Officer Ray Tensing’s mugshot, the one charged with his murder. Now, the nation has learned that officers found PCP in Terence Crutcher’s truck after his death. And? Even if true, his hands were still visible, up, and non-threatening. An officer pulled the trigger anyway.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bad-dudes-have-rights-challenging-problematic-police_us_57e272c5e4b05d3737be519b





Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby killed Terence Crutcher by accident, but the police union is murdering him every day:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/officer-betty-shelby-s-attorneys-are-told-terence-crutcher-was/article_6e1f1a5e-5b64-5f51-9de6-3a443ac5296d.html

Clearly Betty Shelby foobared up.  There is no doubt about it.  However, she- just as you, I or Terence Crutcher is still entitled to a defense against her crime.

I too was rather surprised to hear the revelation about Crutcher allegedly shooting a gun down his street.  There had been issues between the Crutcher/Johnsons and some neighbors recently based on a PO filed against his wife in which he was named.   It’s becoming obvious Crutcher had issues or a substance abuse problem which led to his odd behavior the night he was killed.  Crutcher and his wife were not model citizens by any stretch of the imagination and I don’t think anyone has tried to make them out as such.  But it does appear there was a recent escalation in his odd behavior.  We will find out soon enough when his tox results are announced.  He definitely did not deserve to die because of those suspected issues...but- Officer Shelby also has a right to establish why she felt threatened enough to have her gun drawn on him.

Clearly Betty Shelby foobared up.  There is no doubt about it.  However, she- just as you, I or Terence Crutcher is still entitled to a defense against her crime.

I too was rather surprised to hear the revelation about Crutcher allegedly shooting a gun down his street.

Would the drunk driver be allowed to excuse his actions because he happened to crash into the home of a bad dude? Of course not. It's irrelevant to his crime. But blabbing about it sure could help taint a jury...

Would the drunk driver be allowed to excuse his actions because he happened to crash into the home of a bad dude? Of course not. It's irrelevant to his crime. But blabbing about it sure could help taint a jury...

Not applicable to this discussion. In your example there is only one acting party. In Crutcher's case there are two, and the actions of both have a lot to do with the innocence of guilt of the officer in this case.

In my scenario the actions of the guy making meth in his house are as much to blame for the drunk crashing into it as Crutches actions before have to do with getting shot that night.

Assuming the Officer knew nothing of the previous actions, firing a gun in the air at some previous time could not have influenced her decision in any way. Assuming the drunk didn't know there was a meth lab in the house, he couldn't have decided to ram it to save the neighborhood. Crutcher firing a gun some previous day without the Officers knowledge did not cause her to be more afraid than she ever had been before.

I don't see any relevance and I guess I  need further explanation of your thought process.

What about the guy who fired the Taser? She wasn't alone. He didn't pull a gun. He was not scared enough to do so.  Add in the failure to provide the previous two minutes which I feel is actually on her dash cam and will never be presented, a helicopter nearby, and you have to ask just how scared could she be. Here's a thought to defuse such a situation, stand back and wait patiently to see what transpires instead of being the catalyst for violence. If she had simply waited, at a distance, ready for the next phase to unfold, this tragedy ends differently.

I feel for her really, but this effort to paint him as either an escalating drug user or mentally unstable etc. is akin to pulling up a rape victims last date. It is a gambit worth pulling by the defense but is totally useless as a defense.

All that said, if all we armed our cops with were tasers and billy clubs to prevent suspect shootings accidental or otherwise, we might have more cops end up dead.

Perhaps this is a watershed case where law enforcement takes a long look at what sort of response they are training their officers for when things like this go down.

Anyone remember what happened to the cop who shot his daughters boyfriend to death?

Kepler had dumped his daughter at the homeless shelter to teach her a lesson, but she fell in love with someone there. When Kepler found out she was in a relationship with the guy on facebook, he used NCIC, cellphone data and other "secure" police databases to background check and stalk the guy, found his house, got shitfaced, targeted him for execution.  Sat in a car until his daughter came out and shot him point-blank in the face.

After Kepler was arrested, a gun magically appeared in a trash can inside the interview room.
O’Carroll, in his arguments, alleged the gun could have been placed there out of the view of surveillance cameras because of the trash can’s position in the room.

He said his client intends to present a self-defense case that will corroborate why there was a gun in the trash can.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/judge-suppresses-former-tulsa-police-officer-s-statement-about-drinking/article_b73c8ea7-8e27-5d6c-8340-912009137bab.html

But sorry, too much premeditation for a stand-your-ground defense.  The union will arrange for a minimal sentence at an out-of-state country-club prison with an early release based on how much good he did while serving the community.

A judge declared a mistrial in November in the first trial for the same reason. That time the jury was deadlocked 11 to 1 guilty.
The lone holdout said he simply could not convict a cop.

So much for the Rule of Law.  Shows what people have been saying about the different standards...  can't convict a cop no matter how guilty he is proven to be.  Geez, what an "Okie" !!

Saw that - story once again does not match the video, but hey, if she can get enough alt-right Failin' fans to believe her - it only takes 1.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/terence-crutcher-unarmed-black-man-shooting-60-minutes/

Bill Whitaker: What would've changed things?

Betty Shelby: If he would've complied.  If he would have communicated with me, if he would've just done as I asked him to do we would not be here. You and I would never have met and no one would ever know my name.

So lame.  But I guess they gotta have something...

Anyone here got one of these in the mail?

(https://blackwallsttimes.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/img_7161.png?w=640)

I wonder how 60 Minutes would feel about their logo being used on this mailing?

If more police had to consider their actions might have consequences, wouldn't the result be better policing?

And do stuff like this
 Okmulgee County chief deputy arrested on robbery, assault charges (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/okmulgee-county-chief-deputy-arrested-on-robbery-assault-charges/article_e4575803-812a-514d-baaa-9b80ca5dae2a.html)

and this
Tulsa County deputy facing rape, porn charges accused of sexually abusing another child (http://www.fox23.com/news/fox23-investigates/former-tulsa-county-deputy-facing-rape-porn-charges-accused-of-sexually-abusing-another-child/519100834)

and this
Muskogee officer pleads no contest to assaulting ex-wife, receives deferred sentence (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/former-muskogee-officer-pleads-no-contest-to-assaulting-ex-wife/article_6c857d2f-d6c3-54e2-9ea2-ff02af1f8bcd.html)

I would like to point out that police are people too.   And as such, they occasionally screw up.   (see above)    But, when they do, they are arrested and prosecuted as an individual would be.

Maybe instead we should have a "position of public trust" law....   If you hold a position of public trust and violate the law, you have an extra XX yeas added to you sentence.  Whether it be fireman, policeman, politician or government employee, if you take public money, you are held to a higher standard.

Fallin Signs 'Blue Lives Matter' Bill Into Law
http://www.newson6.com/story/35370827/fallin-signs-blue-lives-matter-bill-into-law (http://www.newson6.com/story/35370827/fallin-signs-blue-lives-matter-bill-into-law)

I do not know the facts of this case in any detail, I just hope the verdict is just.

I do not know the facts of this case in any detail, I just hope the verdict is just.

Just so I know just exactly what we are talking about here we want just a just verdict, am I just right?

Today is verdict day, along with a Tsunami of information that was being withheld till now.

Fox23 reported ADA Gray not only saying video was tampered with, but Shelby and her union legal team got those videos two days prior to her even making her official report.

And it gets grittier.


Cop Who Killed Terence Crutcher Accused Of Making Her Daughter Sleep In Dog Urine: Report
The family of the slain 40-year-old publicly released the information, which they believe speaks to the character of Officer Betty Shelby.

After the defense rested in the manslaughter trial of Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby, who is on trial for the September 2016 death of Terence Crutcher, his family held an impromptu press conference on the courthouse steps on Tuesday, expressing their displeasure at how the trial went.

According to KJRH, Crutcher’s family and supporters felt that the defense and police union disparaged Crutcher’s name, when it is he who is the aggrieved (that is, dead) party.

“As opposed to Betty Shelby being on trial, it appears that Terence Crutcher is on trial,” said Pastor of Morning Star Baptist Church Dr. Rodney Goss.

To rectify that, the family presented court documents from 2005 that say Shelby’s ex-husband claimed she physically abused their children, prompting him to seek custody.

Specifically, the report claims that Shelby choked and kicked her 10-year-old daughter and forced her to sleep in dog urine.

Local reporter Jonathan McCall presented some of the documents on Twitter.

    #BREAKING Officer charged with killing #TerenceCrutcher accused of choking daughter forcing her to sleep in dog urine according to records pic.twitter.com/asTxmkKEFk

    — Jonathan McCall (@JonathanMcCall) May 16, 2017

“Her daughter said her mother had choked her and kicked her,” said Pastor of My Church Walk of Faith Marcus Howard. “We’re trying to portray her as being an angel, and an angel she is not.”

The domestic case against Shelby was eventually dismissed. Unsurprisingly, her peers in the local police union defended her.

“I don’t see how that would go to her mindset during a shooting years later,” said Tulsa Fraternal Order of Police Chairman Jerad Lindsey. “I’m sure Mr. Crutcher has many more things in his past there were not coming up because they’re not pertinent to what’s going on in this trial.”

However, the family felt that the FOP also released disparaging information on Crutcher over the weekend.

Some of the videos were about the affects of PCP and the difference between the “action and reaction” of officers.
Crutcher was known to have battled substance abuse and had PCP in his system when he was killed.

“Terence is not on trial. It is his life that we are here to protect and to make sure that justice is served,” Pastor Howard said.

The jury in the trial was instructed to come back to court Wednesday morning for closing arguments and to decide a verdict.
SOURCE: KJRH – Tulsa   https://newsone.com/3713232/betty-shelby-made-her-daughter-sleep-in-dog-urine/

Anyone check on Vashta?

Vashata on the Right.....
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YI3NoBeNwfk/hqdefault.jpg

What Bread? Guido? Easier to make fun of the poster than address the conflicting evidence? I am very curious as to whether this effects future cases. Both sides should be able to review police video before giving their statements. The five second discrepancy is pretty alarming as well. He was twice tasered, (maybe one missed) and physically reacted. It seemed unclear when she shot him. I agree with the jury that there is no way should she ever be returned to a street officer status.

The civil trial is bound to be a bloodbath, but the taxpayers always pay up.

So much for the Rule of Law.  Shows what people have been saying about the different standards...  can't convict a cop no matter how guilty he is proven to be.  Geez, what an "Okie" !!

In an open letter posted to the Rogers County Sheriff’s Office’s Facebook page on Monday, (Rogers County Sheriff Scott) Walton accuses Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler and Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan of “dealing an incredible blow to the entire American law enforcement community.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/rogers-county-sheriff-scott-walton-calls-out-tulsa-county-da/article_57b3ae2c-b34b-54b0-9fbf-b622c46f3f77.html

Sorry Shrek, police don't have the right to kill because they're spooked.

(https://i0.wp.com/fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/police-easily-startled-sign.jpg?resize=358%2C271)

Sorry Shrek, police don't have the right to kill because they're spooked.

In an open letter posted to the Rogers County Sheriff’s Office’s Facebook page on Monday, (Rogers County Sheriff Scott) Walton accuses Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler and Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan of “dealing an incredible blow to the entire American law enforcement community.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/rogers-county-sheriff-scott-walton-calls-out-tulsa-county-da/article_57b3ae2c-b34b-54b0-9fbf-b622c46f3f77.html

Sorry Shrek, police don't have the right to kill because they're spooked.
(https://i0.wp.com/fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/police-easily-startled-sign.jpg?resize=358%2C271)

I read that Walton is facing re-election later this year and his self-serving statements about Shelby are no more than red meat for his base, you know, angry, frightened white folks.

Now he has a new "I-cant-handle-a-firearm-in-a-crisis" deputy:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma/articles/2017-08-10/the-latest-acquitted-ex-tulsa-cop-becomes-reserve-deputy


My God, people...

FFS is more like it.  How many came to the conclusion Shelby doesn’t belong in that sort of situation again?  This is akin to hiring Robert Bates as a reservist at another department when he gets out of jail. 

I'll be very blunt here.  Walton is an idiot.  This was a straight PR move.

I'll be very blunt here.  Walton is an idiot.  This was a straight PR move.

FFS is more like it.  How many came to the conclusion Shelby doesn’t belong in that sort of situation again?  This is akin to hiring Robert Bates as a reservist at another department when he gets out of jail. 

A. Persons authorized to file a motion for expungement, as provided herein, must be within one of the following categories:

1. The person has been acquitted;
. . .
B. For purposes of this act, "expungement" shall mean the sealing of criminal records, as well as any public civil record, involving actions brought by and against the State of Oklahoma arising from the same arrest, transaction or occurrence.

There is still another trial, correct?

FFS is more like it.  How many came to the conclusion Shelby doesn’t belong in that sort of situation again?  This is akin to hiring Robert Bates as a reservist at another department when he gets out of jail. 

What if he was deaf or autistic and unable to follow orders?

It would be Déjà Vu.

Witnesses yell 'he can't hear you' as cop shoots deaf man
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-man-holding-stick-shot-officer-oklahoma-city-49969676

You left off the part where the deaf man was coming at police with a metal pipe that had a leather grip strap. Now, proceed with your regularly scheduled anti-police diaper wetting.

Read the REST of the story...you might learn the rest of the story.

But this doesn't happen in other countries in the world.  Why is it that our police see no option but to kill hundreds of people per year, but other nations on the planet don't?  Seriously, in no other advanced country does an investigation into a hit and run end with police shooting someone, and it seems perfectly normal. It is not common in other countries for government agents to confront a citizen and it end with the government agent killing the citizen.  That happens more times per day in the US than all year in most countries.

I'm tired of debating individual cases.  Many are likely to either always believe the "he's coming right for us" defense or that all police set out to murder black/poor/mentally ill people.  I've seen cases where I can't believe the officer decided to kill someone, I've seen scenarios where I can't believe the person put an officer in a position where they had to.  We could have the same conversation a dozen times a month, and some do.  That hasn't led anywhere.

But when you look at the macro statistics, it is undeniable that police in the United States kill magnitudes more people than any other advanced nation (even as a percent of population).  I think most people would agree that it isn't a good thing (for police or for the community). So we need to ask the questions:

1) WHY?

 and

2) Is there anything we can do about it?

Then we can discuss the risks and rewards of the potential actions.  

You left off the part where the deaf man was coming at police with a metal pipe that had a leather grip strap. Now, proceed with your regularly scheduled anti-police diaper wetting.

You are only considering that the police could be the only variable. I doubt that's it. There are a multitude of reasons that things are different here.

Ohh, please share. What are the other variables?

I have one!    In Russia the police don't have to respond to pesky domestic violence calls.

(https://cdn1.pri.org/sites/default/files/styles/original_image/public/cdn2.pri.org/embeds/2017-03/russia-dv/russia-dv-infographic_0.png?itok=YzXsT47f)
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-03-10/least-12000-people-killed-domestic-violence-every-year-russias-not-even-sure

Do you grab a pipe off the porch when you go talk to cops?

You are only considering that the police could be the only variable. I doubt that's it. There are a multitude of reasons that things are different here.

Cite your source that specifically claims he grabbed a pipe off his porch to go talk to cops, or stop obfuscating.

I have one!    In Russia the police don't have to respond to pesky domestic violence calls.

1) WHY?

 and

2) Is there anything we can do about it?

Then we can discuss the risks and rewards of the potential actions. 

This was not domestic violence.

One idea floated around:

Police can, and should be required to protect themselves from claims against poor behavior in the same way other professionals do. Physicians, nurses and lawyers all maintain malpractice insurance, which protects them from liability associated with their doing their jobs. Unlike qualified immunity, malpractice insurance doesn't only protect the professional; it also compensates victims. And insurance companies have a strong profit incentive to monitor professionals.

Those who exhibit patterns of reckless or abusive behavior would see their insurance premiums rise proportionally. The result would be that the "bad apples" would simply become too expensive to insure, and they would have to find work in other industries more in keeping with their capabilities.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/civil-wars/articles/2017-09-07/how-to-hold-police-accountable-to-the-public

No, I didn't limit my considerations at all, I agree there are tons of factors.  Certainly the United States has more diversity than most advanced countries.  We have more firearms than any country.  We have unique development patters that tend to separate "us" and "them" more than many places.  Perhaps Americans are simply more prone to violence. Maybe police in the US just have a more dangerous job than everywhere else?  

There's a huge multitude of things that might go in to explain the "why."  And there is enough comparable data on many of the things that it can be intelligently discussed without everyone being on one side or the other.  There is no "us" or "them,"  everyone needs effective policing and no one wants to see innocent people shot (and no, this isn't an opinion on any one case or an assertion that most police shooting are of innocent people).

So to be clear, this is certainly not a case of everything being the police officers' fault.  

I would love to...   Since you read the article you should have seen it.... 

(From here:   http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-man-holding-stick-shot-officer-oklahoma-city-49969676)

1.    ....Sanchez was on the porch when Lindsey arrived.

2.    Lindsey called for backup and Barnes arrived, at which point Sanchez left the porch and began to approach the officers, Mathews said.

3.    He said Sanchez was holding a metal pipe that was approximately 2 feet (0.6 meters) long and that had a leather loop on one end for wrapping around one's wrist. Lindsey called for            backup and Barnes arrived, at which point Sanchez left the porch and began to approach the officers, Mathews said.
   

It was mentioned twice in the article (Guido didnt bother reading):

Why is it that our police see no option but to kill hundreds of people per year, but other nations on the planet don't?

I read the article. How else would I know you left out the contributing factor to the shooting in your biased, "cops are big meanies" post?

I think the problem with a malpractice type thing for cops is that generally speaking we ask cops to partake in inherently dangerous exercises with people that generally don't have the well being of society in mind. It's a decidedly different environment than the other industries you mentioned.

Based on this account, it's similar to the Crutcher shooting as a taser and pistol were fired at the same time apparently.

It makes me wonder if the cop with the gun was startled by the taser a split second before.  I've long thought that may have spooked Shelby into shooting Crutcher.

How about making it mandatory to learn and use non-lethal take-downs as a part of training being preferable to raising a weapon?  This was one thing which really impressed me when I took my CCL course: even though the class was to give the proper training to earn a CCL, the instructors really emphasized non-lethal take-down and self-defense as a part of the class.

Ever fired a gun as part of a volley?  Its a well-known reflex and nearly instantaneous.

I use a .45 auto and .357 mag revolver - one in each hand.  Fire simultaneously, and as fast as I can, until both are empty.  Josey Wales always fired one, then the other, but I find simultaneous to be more gratifying.

Yeah, but Wales used Colt Walker 1847s.  Single action. Hard to fire simultaneously.  (At least more than once.)

I use a .45 auto and .357 mag revolver - one in each hand.  Fire simultaneously, and as fast as I can, until both are empty.

I'm tired of debating individual cases.  Many are likely to either always believe the "he's coming right for us" defense or that all police set out to murder black/poor/mentally ill people.  I've seen cases where I can't believe the officer decided to kill someone, I've seen scenarios where I can't believe the person put an officer in a position where they had to.  We could have the same conversation a dozen times a month, and some do. 

I'll be very blunt here.  Walton is an idiot.  This was a straight PR move.

If he's running for office he probably needs his own thread, but here's his latest missive:
http://www.newson6.com/story/37322317/sheriff-walton-responds-to-city-councilors-crooked-cops-comment

Its in response to other lawmakers
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-police-union-criticizes-city-councilor-after-she-makes-crooked/article_8dd4c0c2-2f6f-5691-8317-ca080d4f03ba.html

Tulsa County DA debate turns to questions over last summer’s Betty Shelby trial

Wood also asked about positions Kunzweiler brought up during Shelby’s trial, such as when Shelby was criticized for taking 72 hours to give a statement to investigators. TPD policy, Wood said, is for officers to receive that 72-hour period to cool off before making a statement, yet during trial Kunzweiler and ADA Kevin Gray told the jury that was improper.
https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/tulsa-county-da-debate-turns-to-questions-over-last-summers-betty-shelby-trial/

Could it be both policy and improper?  

Tim Harris residuals....what do you expect...?    (Collective 'you', not specific 'you'...)

Tulsa in the news, again.



https://abcnews.go.com/US/protest-erupts-critical-incident-class-taught-oklahoma-officer/story?id=57448147


This white police officer will teach you how to 'survive' after shooting an unarmed black man
http://theweek.com/speedreads/792925/white-police-officer-teach-how-survive-after-shooting-unarmed-black-man


Betty Shelby Is Teaching a Class on Surviving Killing an Unarmed Black Man. Here Are 10 Things She'd Be Better At
https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/betty-shelby-is-teaching-a-class-on-surviving-killing-a-1828659721


Shelby has instructed the class for other agencies. Goodwin said the course “has already been taught, word has it, at the Tulsa Police Department.”
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/the-situation-is-very-ugly-protest-targets-betty-shelby-s/article_ef592b5c-4fb9-5ee1-9f4a-543cb21ac559.html

And there is wonder at the fact that Oklahoma doesn't thrive the way the rhetoric/propaganda says we should....

Community leaders challenge Tulsa Police Department's hiring of Betty Shelby despite questionable background
“They knew the risk, and they knew about Betty Shelby’s past, and they did nothing.”

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/bettyshelby/community-leaders-challenge-tulsa-police-department-s-hiring-of-betty/article_a0c291a6-ca53-559c-8a38-aa40cc55e0c1.html

What the frack is that. How on earth was she ever a cop? How did that not come out in her trial?

What the frack is that. How on earth was she ever a cop? How did that not come out in her trial?

And Rogers County just can't get enough of her!!   When Tulsa finally got those little scraps of conscience and got rid of her, leave it to Claremorons to scoop her up and put another gun in her hand!!  

A favorite law firm among cops is sponsoring a firearms class.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/former-tulsa-police-officer-betty-shelby-to-teach-basic-nra/article_0380c8b4-fdd3-5a59-80f9-b4bd2ec9ce40.html

Betty Shelby teaching course for officers on 'surviving the aftermath of a critical incident'
Officers will get CLEET credit for class about aftermath of a shooting
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/bettyshelby/betty-shelby-teaching-course-for-officers-on-surviving-the-aftermath/article_9388a019-cd03-5890-9757-069a5bf9706d.html

In 3 years since Terence Crutcher's death, Tulsa Police added one policy. More could reduce killings by officers, a researcher says.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/in-years-since-terence-crutcher-s-death-tulsa-police-added/article_93d2b213-3948-5b38-bcf9-503963dd58d5.html


Terence Crutcher was meant to go to a music appreciation class at community college. When it was cancelled, he made his way to Friday night choir practice, where his father was waiting. After that, he was supposed to go to a birthday party for Tykiaha’s younger sister Tyjunae. He never made it.
“Kaka,” he said, “some white lady killed my daddy.”
Why, he asked.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/24/police-killings-families-ramarley-graham-terence-crutcher-tamir-rice

Aaaaaand, at some point that evening, Crutcher stopped long enough to snort some PCP and put himself and others at danger with his hallucinations.

I'll be very blunt here.  Walton is an idiot.  This was a straight PR move.

Do we see a pattern?


Brown now has a new badge, working as a detention officer for the Rogers County Jail. Sheriff Scott Walton hired Brown after seeing the posts in question.
https://ktul.com/news/local/ex-officer-accused-of-racist-social-media-posts-finds-a-new-job

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/recent-tulsa-police-academy-graduate-fired-after-anti-government-islamophobic/article_ac778ffc-a487-55a0-882f-85ee50b8dec2.html

Always has been the pattern of Rogers County.  For at least since statehood.  Probably before.

Walton said Brown’s firing after the department received complaints was an “example of spineless, coward leadership.” He compared Brown’s firing to how he felt the Tulsa Police Department treated former officer Betty Shelby.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/rogers-county-sheriff-scott-walton-calls-out-tulsa-county-da/article_57b3ae2c-b34b-54b0-9fbf-b622c46f3f77.html

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/fired-tulsa-police-officer-hired-as-detention-officer-in-rogers/article_1e781846-d43d-5b3d-947b-59eb54c1d986.html

Maybe it will play out as a new "reality" cop show on A&E...

Always has been the pattern of Rogers County.  For at least since statehood.  Probably before.

That guy was arrested and charged with murder yesterday.

That guy was arrested and charged with murder yesterday.