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Talk About Tulsa => PlaniTulsa & Urban Planning => Topic started by: brettakins on September 05, 2016, 12:18:41 pm



Title: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: brettakins on September 05, 2016, 12:18:41 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/toll-road-under-consideration-to-finish-tulsa-s-gilcrease-expressway/article_b16f0660-39e5-5810-8e7a-119ae362a1db.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/toll-road-under-consideration-to-finish-tulsa-s-gilcrease-expressway/article_b16f0660-39e5-5810-8e7a-119ae362a1db.html)
(http://)


I really hate idea of a toll but if that is the only way to get this completed in a timely manner then I'm all for it.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: SXSW on September 05, 2016, 01:30:08 pm
This has been on the boards for so long I'll believe it when I see it.  NW Tulsa is one of the last undeveloped parts of the city.  I would like to see more thoughtful development there then what has been built in SW Tulsa, something like Bradburn Village in Broomfield, CO:
(http://www.terrain.org/unsprawl/22/images/bradburn_aerial.jpg)

The challenges in developing NW Tulsa are the existing low performing TPS schools, hilly terrain, and lack of any retail.  That is why you need a large master-planned housing development so you can create a small town center for essential retail (grocery, pharmacy, coffee shop, etc) and also build a new elementary school.  That is what they did with Bradburn Village. 



Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: AquaMan on September 05, 2016, 01:58:14 pm
I know that area very well. You're describing the symptons of NW Tulsa not the causes for its malaise. Its the lack of good manufacturing jobs they used to depend on, the high density of low quality homes, and the predominantly low income, low education families. Other than Gilgrease Hills and the original Tulsa, Crosbie, Owen Park areas there just isn't much in demographics over there to attract development. They deserve good shopping, good grocers and retail, but most investors see the area as suitable for rental property, industrial and not much else. Some of that is Osage county management, part of it is being ignored by COT and Tulsa County.

If you think its a case of "build it and they will come" including schools and an expressway, I'm afraid it isn't likely. They need good jobs.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: SXSW on September 05, 2016, 03:29:17 pm
Well it is just a few miles outside downtown where the largest concentration of office jobs are in the city.  I would think NW Tulsa and a 5-10 minute commute would be attractive for people working downtown.  It's also close to the airport and aerospace industries.  What would you propose to bring in more jobs to this area?  I think if we keep building up downtown this will be a natural extension of that growth if it can overcome the challenges I mentioned above.  Just plopping down a suburban-style neighborhood by the Gilcrease Expressway won't cut it.

There are some hilly areas that have downright amazing views.  The areas along 53rd W Ave remind me of west Austin before it became overdeveloped or the hilly parts of south Tulsa.  If you haven't been to the botanical garden it is a gem that will only get better as the plants mature and they build more gardens and trails.  The Gilcrease extension will certainly improve access to that.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: davideinstein on September 05, 2016, 05:47:05 pm
How many highways do we need?


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Red Arrow on September 05, 2016, 08:56:02 pm
How many highways do we need?
7


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 06, 2016, 12:10:33 pm
How many highways do we need?


More....

Always more....


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: DowntownDan on September 08, 2016, 06:49:29 am
Fewer highways.  Less sprawl.  This is a continuation of the old way of thinking about cities. 


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 08, 2016, 07:19:51 am
Fewer highways.  Less sprawl.  This is a continuation of the old way of thinking about cities.  

Tulsa’s style of sprawl is also a failed economic model yet those in leadership keep ignoring the obvious.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 08, 2016, 12:37:52 pm
Lets take the money we would spend on a highway and use it to encourage the desired economic development. Boulevards, beautification, tax breaks, good schools... lets see if that can't do it when a highway can't (see, .e.g., the Tisdale loop having tons of empty lots). I'm sure we can come up with a creative proposal that beats a highway.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: DTowner on September 08, 2016, 01:21:34 pm
Lets take the money we would spend on a highway and use it to encourage the desired economic development. Boulevards, beautification, tax breaks, good schools... lets see if that can't do it when a highway can't (see, .e.g., the Tisdale loop having tons of empty lots). I'm sure we can come up with a creative proposal that beats a highway.

Wasn’t the Northwest Passage development announced in the late 1990s supposed to be just that sort of grand development that was going to spur growth in the entire area?  Seems that very little came of it.

The Gilcrease Expressway has been on the planning map for something like 50 years and at the current pace will not be completed for another 40 years.  By building it in such small segments, it is something of a highway from nowhere to nowhere.  While I doubt completing the Gilcrease will have anywhere near the developmental effect that the Creek Turnpike had, it’s hard to argue that without it nothing much has happened in the area or is likely to happen in the coming decades.

If Tulsa grows, it is going to keep pushing its boundaries outward.  It would be better to do that in all directions, instead of primarily to the south/southeast.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 08, 2016, 01:47:53 pm
Wasn’t the Northwest Passage development announced in the late 1990s supposed to be just that sort of grand development that was going to spur growth in the entire area?  Seems that very little came of it.

The Gilcrease Expressway has been on the planning map for something like 50 years and at the current pace will not be completed for another 40 years.  By building it in such small segments, it is something of a highway from nowhere to nowhere.  While I doubt completing the Gilcrease will have anywhere near the developmental effect that the Creek Turnpike had, it’s hard to argue that without it nothing much has happened in the area or is likely to happen in the coming decades.

If Tulsa grows, it is going to keep pushing its boundaries outward.  It would be better to do that in all directions, instead of primarily to the south/southeast.


JMO, if road access is the only thing supposedly stifling growth in NW Tulsa, then the area would benefit just as well with Edison being four-laned to 65th W. Ave.  Apache has been improved in recent years as well as (I think) 36th St. North west out to 52nd West. Ave.  That puts highway access within a few miles or less from the south (I-244 with exits every mile or so) and the east (The LL Tis) to those areas.  FFS, you don’t have to bring a highway to the front door to make for better access.

Perhaps those living west of Central HS don’t care for dense neighborhoods and that’s why they moved out that way in the first place.

“It may be a road to nowhere and a complete boondoggle, but it’s been on the books for years, therefore let’s build it!"


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 08, 2016, 05:47:54 pm
Fewer highways.  Less sprawl.  This is a continuation of the old way of thinking about cities.  


Just in case you think I really meant 'more'.... No!  I agree with you.  That was as sarcastic as can be expressed without inflection and voice tones....






Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: AquaMan on September 08, 2016, 06:03:17 pm
JMO, if road access is the only thing supposedly stifling growth in NW Tulsa, then the area would benefit just as well with Edison being four-laned to 65th W. Ave.  Apache has been improved in recent years as well as (I think) 36th St. North west out to 52nd West. Ave.  That puts highway access within a few miles or less from the south (I-244 with exits every mile or so) and the east (The LL Tis) to those areas.  FFS, you don’t have to bring a highway to the front door to make for better access.

Perhaps those living west of Central HS don’t care for dense neighborhoods and that’s why they moved out that way in the first place.

“It may be a road to nowhere and a complete boondoggle, but it’s been on the books for years, therefore let’s build it!"

Getting around those areas is not difficult. People did move out there for the lack of density. A friend of mine used to tell me that people who moved to Black Dog couldn't get along with other people very well! The truth is that no one in Northwest Tulsa really wants to be connected to the people living in West Tulsa anymore than Westies  and Berryhill give a flip about the Sand Springs line and Osage. Its the people who don't live in those areas that seem to want the connection. I guess to have another way around the metro. Anyway, it hasn't been done because there is no real purpose for it other than vague promises of increased development. Oh, and Dewey owns land out that way.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 08, 2016, 07:10:46 pm
I knew some people back in the 80's and the early 90's that lived in that area between Chandler Park/Berryhill and West 41st and I would tell them that I forgot about that area, and they would say "That's why we moved there." W 41st & Hwy 97 was where they shopped and I want to say back then it was a Safeway that became a Homeland store was where the went, and working downtown was a nice drive with way less traffic. It's what a 15 to 20 minute drive from that area into downtown?


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Hoss on September 08, 2016, 08:34:54 pm
I knew some people back in the 80's and the early 90's that lived in that area between Chandler Park/Berryhill and West 41st and I would tell them that I forgot about that area, and they would say "That's why we moved there." W 41st & Hwy 97 was where they shopped and I want to say back then it was a Safeway that became a Homeland store was where the went, and working downtown was a nice drive with way less traffic. It's what a 15 to 20 minute drive from that area into downtown?

Not really...unless there is construction or a wreck...97 to downtown now is about 10 minutes.  However for me I get into downtown from that stretch by taking the Quanah exit.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 08, 2016, 08:35:53 pm
It's what a 15 to 20 minute drive from that area into downtown?

If that.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 08, 2016, 10:06:56 pm
Been a while, what can I say. Have to say I think it's stupid to cut through that area now. Maybe back in the 60's when it would have connected all of the manufacturing along Charles Page, west 21st and over to where Unit Rig and all the manufacturing that was/is in that area. But with the Red Fork 244/444 and highway 97 it just seems pointless, unlike the heads of many in charge at the state. (Bless their little hearts)


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 09, 2016, 09:29:27 am
Been a while, what can I say. Have to say I think it's stupid to cut through that area now. Maybe back in the 60's when it would have connected all of the manufacturing along Charles Page, west 21st and over to where Unit Rig and all the manufacturing that was/is in that area. But with the Red Fork 244/444 and highway 97 it just seems pointless, unlike the heads of many in charge at the state. (Bless their little hearts)

Agreed.  The Chas. Page industrial corridor has been dying a slow death for a few decades.  This is to stroke a few egos and as someone else suspects, people sitting on property in the area (who don’t live on it) probably think they can gain from a highway cross-cutting the land.

North Tulsans will be told this will really benefit them and create new jobs and they will fall for this like every other panacea for their economy that’s been promised over the years.  In reality, a few people will gain financially.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: SXSW on September 09, 2016, 11:37:01 am
What are the challenges with reviving the Charles Page industrial corridor? 


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 09, 2016, 12:11:33 pm
What are the challenges with reviving the Charles Page industrial corridor?  

The area I was referring to is the stretch from the old ADC to just past where the Knotty Pine was. There is still manufacturing happening there, but I doubt it will be what it was during the 50's through the 70's. At that time it was all petrochemical based, and at times there were three shifts working there to keep up. The shrinking oil industry in the 80's and 90's is what killed it off. If you draw a line from Sheffield Steel to the airport, (basically along the rail line) that was the petrochemical corridor for lack of a better way, and then you had a similar area Oakhurst area around I-44 and 49th W Ave. over to the refineries. I think the other issue along that stretch of Charles Page would be the clean up involved to build something new even if it was manufacturing. It's similar to where Storey Wrecker is, or the old Fin Tube sight.

To revive it, I think you will need a new industrial revolution so to speak, but manufacturing in the US has shrunk so much in the last 30+ years I don't think it will ever be what it was.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 09, 2016, 12:30:10 pm
What are the challenges with reviving the Charles Page industrial corridor? 

Old buildings and crumbling infrastructure are two things which come to mind.  Some of the industries have been sent off-shore or consolidated elsewhere in the state or country, others have found better spots elsewhere around the area like the Port of Catoosa. 

If you mean as to repurpose buildings along the corridor, there’s not much attractive along there for repurposing into other uses, JMO.  There’s some good brick buildings but corrugated steel panel seems to be pretty ubiquitous through there.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: AquaMan on September 09, 2016, 10:16:38 pm
There is a Frank Lloyd Wright building in the area and of course the old Cord auto manufacturing plant.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 10, 2016, 03:55:09 pm
There is a Frank Lloyd Wright building in the area and of course the old Cord auto manufacturing plant.

Where are those?  I can't place the FLW and was unaware Cord had a place out on the line.  Were they the reproduction Cords or the original plant?


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: AquaMan on September 10, 2016, 04:23:33 pm
The Cord plant is right where the railroad crosses Charles Page diagonally across from the old Knotty Pine Barbeque.  Red brick. Its actually for sale right now. I think it is the original. There was a newer one in Broken Arrow.

The FLW is a bit farther east towards downtown on the south side of Charles Page. Its glass brick windows have been covered up and it has a deco look to it. Seems like it was a valve company. I go by there occasionally so I'll check it out.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on September 14, 2016, 10:10:55 am
Speaking of Sand Springs and their industrial district here is some good news:

Quote
Major industrial park development at former steel mill site to change heart of Sand Springs

The Sand Springs City Council has entered into an agreement to be a part of a major redevelopment plan for the former Sheffield Steel mill in the middle of the city.

Officials said the project will breathe new life into a very visible part of Sand Springs.

“This will be transformative for generations for the citizens of Sand Springs,” City Manager Elizabeth Gray said.

The Sheffield Steel plant and rail line to Tulsa were purchased by Gerdau Ameristeel, which eventually halted production in 2009. OmniTRAX bought the site in 2014, apparently with plans for redevelopment.

Major highlights of the proposal include the demolition of some of the former mill’s massive metal structures, which directly abut the west side of Oklahoma 97 and can be seen from U.S. 412 toward the south.

About 26 acres of the property are planned for retail development. For city officials, that could translate not only to jobs but also sales-tax revenue.

Per the development agreement Monday, the city eventually would have an option to buy a 10-acre parcel for use as a public-safety complex. Officials said that project has about $10 million through the city’s Vision renewal, which Sand Springs voters approved last fall.

Other public funding needed for the redevelopment would be for construction on Morrow Road along the project’s north border from Oklahoma 97 to Broad Street, Gray said.

“We’ve been working on this for about six months,” Gray said. “But we want to give as much credit to the OmniTRAX people.”

Sand Springs officials had previously planned the public-safety complex for property on the west side of the city, but met public pushback due in part because the proposed facility was not in a central location.

Gray and other officials said building the police, fire, 911 and municipal court facility on part of the former Sheffield Steel property is the perfect opportunity to keep it centralized.

“That’s not a done deal either,” Vice Mayor John Fothergill said. “We’re definitely going to take it to the public.”

Fothergill said he hopes residents agree that a public-private partnership to redevelop the former steel plant is a strong opportunity.

“It was something that we needed anyway,” Fothergill said. “We can put police just about anywhere, but you really want your fire department centrally located.”

Fothergill said OmniTRAX has a track record of buying rail lines and then fueling development all along the lines.

“I think it’s going to be bigger than this,” Fothergill said. “This is just the Sheffield site. That rail goes all the way through Sand Springs and into Tulsa and unincorporated (Tulsa) County property.”

Fothergill pointed at Charles Page Boulevard, which runs along the line, as an area ripe for redevelopment.

Tulsa County Commissioner Karen Keith said she hopes the redevelopment of the property will repair damage to Sand Springs done when the jobs at the steel mill were lost.

“When they lost those jobs, it was just brutal,” Keith said. “Elizabeth (Gray) is a hero in pulling this together. She’s bringing life back into the community.”

jarrel.wade@tulsaworld.com

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/major-industrial-park-development-at-former-steel-mill-site-to/article_63d4aa59-e776-5dd0-b593-a53ac1b34859.html


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: carltonplace on September 14, 2016, 11:02:23 am

North Tulsans will be told this will really benefit them and create new jobs and they will fall for this like every other panacea for their economy that’s been promised over the years.  In reality, a few people will gain financially.

Councilor Jack Henderson is the only vocal person from District 1 that I have heard touting this highway. North Tulsa is easy to get around in...and there is already H75 cutting up neighborhoods. This highway will not be for the residents...it will be for people that want to easily get through north Tulsa on their way to a burb.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: rebound on September 14, 2016, 11:10:45 am
The Cord plant is right where the railroad crosses Charles Page diagonally across from the old Knotty Pine Barbeque.  Red brick. Its actually for sale right now. I think it is the original. There was a newer one in Broken Arrow.

The FLW is a bit farther east towards downtown on the south side of Charles Page. Its glass brick windows have been covered up and it has a deco look to it. Seems like it was a valve company. I go by there occasionally so I'll check it out.

I'm interested in the possible FLW building. My understanding is that the only FLW building in Tulsa is WestHope. (Currently for sale, if anyone is looking for a really cool fixer-upper.)   

Do you think this is actually FLW, or is it Bruce Goff, or another of FLW's disciples?  (Just checked the Goff site, and can't find anything there, either.)



Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Townsend on September 14, 2016, 11:19:30 am
Speaking of Sand Springs and their industrial district here is some good news:

Not to be that guy, but let's check back in 5 years and see what happened.


Title: Re: Completing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Bamboo World on September 14, 2016, 11:41:20 am



North Tulsa is easy to get around in...and there is already H75 cutting up neighborhoods. This highway will not be for the residents...


True.

Something I've admired about Tulsa's development is the relatively pristine natural beauty in the Osage County northwest quadrant, reaching very near to the central business district.  If the Gilcrease Expressway loop is completed, it will chop and spoil that natural beauty, similar to the way the landscape of Tulsa Hills has been ruined by the development along Highway 75 south of 61st Street.  A few years ago, that corridor along Highway 75 was a gorgeous oak forest.
   


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: AquaMan on September 14, 2016, 11:42:47 am
I'm interested in the possible FLW building. My understanding is that the only FLW building in Tulsa is WestHope. (Currently for sale, if anyone is looking for a really cool fixer-upper.)  

Do you think this is actually FLW, or is it Bruce Goff, or another of FLW's disciples?  (Just checked the Goff site, and can't find anything there, either.)



Rebound, you could be right. I'm at the age where I say, "I used to know where I got that story...". It could have been in one of the Tulsa World books on Tulsa history, or it could have been one of the locals who told me. It remember reading it was early in the architect's career. Something about "Equitable Metering" comes to mind but when I was told the story I visited the building and could see Deco elements in its style. Then they covered up the windows and I feared it would be destroyed. I will go by there today.

note: I just visited a list of Deco buildings on Wikipedia and it lists the building as Midwest Equitable Meter at 3130 Charles Page blvd, built in 1929 but it doesn't list the architect. Would have been about the right time for either Goff or FLW. Also of interest in the area is a nice little fire station at 3924 Charles Page blvd built in 1931 by Albert Joseph Love.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: rebound on September 14, 2016, 01:10:08 pm
Rebound, you could be right. I'm at the age where I say, "I used to know where I got that story...". It could have been in one of the Tulsa World books on Tulsa history, or it could have been one of the locals who told me. It remember reading it was early in the architect's career. Something about "Equitable Metering" comes to mind but when I was told the story I visited the building and could see Deco elements in its style. Then they covered up the windows and I feared it would be destroyed. I will go by there today.

note: I just visited a list of Deco buildings on Wikipedia and it lists the building as Midwest Equitable Meter at 3130 Charles Page blvd, built in 1929 but it doesn't list the architect. Would have been about the right time for either Goff or FLW. Also of interest in the area is a nice little fire station at 3924 Charles Page blvd built in 1931 by Albert Joseph Love.

I've been told since my earlier post that the Meter company building is by Goff.  I hope whatever happens, that building is protected and refurbished.   We've lost too much good architecture in Tulsa.  Thanks for the info!


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: brettakins on February 25, 2017, 09:50:32 am
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/final-stretch-of-gilcrease-expressway-to-be-finished-as-turnpike/article_4245a629-7c5d-511c-a406-ca627f2300fd.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/final-stretch-of-gilcrease-expressway-to-be-finished-as-turnpike/article_4245a629-7c5d-511c-a406-ca627f2300fd.html)

Quote
City leaders will announce a plan early next month to complete the Gilcrease Expressway using a unique funding approach that includes turnpike tolls.
Invitations from Mayor G.T. Bynum and Gov. Mary Fallin are being delivered this week to area leaders for a March 10 event at Chandler Park, 6500 W. 21st St., to announce details of the plan.
“It’s a partnership between the city of Tulsa, Tulsa County, Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and Oklahoma Department of Transportation (which are) committed to the completion of the concept of the Gilcrease Expressway,” Tulsa Deputy Mayor Michael Junk told the Tulsa World.
The Gilcrease Expressway project began in the 1950s to create a loop around the city. Finished portions largely include Interstate 44 and Oklahoma 11, and the planned loop has stalled at a necessary crossing of the Arkansas River west of downtown.
The final portion needed to complete the loop, west and northwest of downtown, will require a substantial investment, largely for a bridge across the river.
At current funding rates that come largely from local contributions, the project is scheduled for completion close to 2050 — 100 years after it was started.
The approach being announced March 10 — while still requiring more pieces to fall into place — will be a multisource funding process to complete the loop with a turnpike and a substantially quicker timeline than current funding allows, Junk said.
“It will be a turnpike,” Junk said.
“It’s a result of many months of planning and coordinating. … We have seen the need for access to that side of Tulsa.”
The project has two main goals: to provide road access for development of northwest Tulsa and to lighten the wear and tear that heavy traffic puts on Tulsa’s Inner Dispersal Loop, Junk said.
One key component of turning the new part of the loop into a turnpike is that the city of Tulsa wouldn’t ultimately be on the hook for maintaining the roadway, Junk said.
“There’s going to be a lot of questions regarding the viability of this project,” Junk said. “We have done an extensive study to ensure the need of the project.”

(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj517/Brettakins/proposed%20route_zpsyeni0iz8.png)


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on February 25, 2017, 04:21:34 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/final-stretch-of-gilcrease-expressway-to-be-finished-as-turnpike/article_4245a629-7c5d-511c-a406-ca627f2300fd.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/final-stretch-of-gilcrease-expressway-to-be-finished-as-turnpike/article_4245a629-7c5d-511c-a406-ca627f2300fd.html)

(http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj517/Brettakins/proposed%20route_zpsyeni0iz8.png)


I'm disappointed Bynum would push this forward.  This is either a great example of a solution looking for a problem, or maybe my thinking is not far enough into the future to see the necessity of it and he's being visionary by getting the wheels turning on this.

It turns out I was wrong about how underutilized the Creek Turnpike would be for years after it was completed, but Tulsa was also growing south that that time, especially along the Memorial corridor.  

I could see once Tulsa is filled in completely to the south and east to the neighboring suburbs NW might be a growth corridor, but only if people are willing to sell their nice peaceful parcels of land for subdivisions or apartment developments.

I see how much cities like Austin have been over-built and it has always been my hope that Tulsa would avoid a similar fate.  Perhaps if I were around 20 and more inclined to live in a larger city rather than around 50 and in the process of moving to rural New Mexico, I might have a different perspective on this road and potentially developing some of the last areas of open space close into the city.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on March 10, 2017, 12:33:39 pm
Private investor found to fund the turnpike:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/turnpike-involving-private-investor-will-help-secure-million-needed-to/article_d771b587-3253-58d0-9280-123b21f2d5b4.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=Breaking%20News&utm_campaign=Breaking%20News


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Townsend on March 10, 2017, 12:40:17 pm
Private investor found to fund the turnpike:



Quote
Fallin said finishing the Gilcrease has been a priority for her since she was first elected.
"One of the first things I told Secretary Ridley was, 'Get this thing done,'" she said.

Which she then was heard saying (under her breath) "I'm so full of poo"


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: brettakins on May 10, 2017, 10:15:18 am
Gilcrease Expressway working group meets for first time

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/gilcrease-expressway-working-group-meets-for-first-time/article_931ca3d0-1f40-58f7-939f-797ed3d0d408.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/gilcrease-expressway-working-group-meets-for-first-time/article_931ca3d0-1f40-58f7-939f-797ed3d0d408.html)


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: brettakins on November 13, 2017, 09:02:20 pm
Expansion Of Gilcrease Expressway May Happen Sooner Than Planned
http://www.newson6.com/story/36834145/expansion-of-gilcrease-expressway-may-happen-sooner-than-planned (http://www.newson6.com/story/36834145/expansion-of-gilcrease-expressway-may-happen-sooner-than-planned)

Quote
If everything continues as planned, by this time next year we should see construction underway.

“Yes, finally its coming together," Keith said.

The total price tag for the project is $300 million.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 14, 2017, 08:37:23 am
Big ole bucket of stupid.   Just what we need - spend another $300 million for a road to nowhere.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: TheArtist on November 14, 2017, 11:36:49 pm
Big ole bucket of stupid.   Just what we need - spend another $300 million for a road to nowhere.


That way the same population of people can spread out even more and have more roads to complain about how bad a shape they are in and at the same time gripe when they are told they need to pay more for the, more roads (and fire, and police, and mowing, and snow removal, pothole repair, lighting, etc. 


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: swake on November 15, 2017, 09:49:19 am
It would help to balance Tulsa's growth around downtown. Some sprawl around cities is inevitable and better there than past Coweta or Collinsville.

That said, that area, despite it being beautiful, will never grow with it's current school district situation no matter what kind of access it has.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: SXSW on November 15, 2017, 10:48:16 pm
It would help to balance Tulsa's growth around downtown. Some sprawl around cities is inevitable and better there than past Coweta or Collinsville.

That said, that area, despite it being beautiful, will never grow with it's current school district situation no matter what kind of access it has.

You know people said the same thing about the Stapleton neighborhood in Denver when the airport moved.  Developers wanted to turn the site into a residential neighborhood next to some of the city’s worst neighborhoods with bad schools.  So to counter that the local district (DPS) set guidelines that only residents in the new neighborhood could attend the new schools.  And attracted by (then) cheaper new housing a few miles from downtown the area grew and 25 years after the airport closed there are 35,000 people living in Stapleton with 4 elem schools, 2 middle schools and a high school. 


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: TheArtist on November 16, 2017, 07:41:45 am
You know people said the same thing about the Stapleton neighborhood in Denver when the airport moved.  Developers wanted to turn the site into a residential neighborhood next to some of the city’s worst neighborhoods with bad schools.  So to counter that the local district (DPS) set guidelines that only residents in the new neighborhood could attend the new schools.  And attracted by (then) cheaper new housing a few miles from downtown the area grew and 25 years after the airport closed there are 35,000 people living in Stapleton with 4 elem schools, 2 middle schools and a high school. 

Yea another similar example, Glenpool had some of the worst test scores and such in the entire area but once growth began to spill over into that area the scores went up.


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 16, 2017, 11:09:49 am
Yea another similar example, Glenpool had some of the worst test scores and such in the entire area but once growth began to spill over into that area the scores went up.


Some of the kids went to Glenpool in early 80's... not strong schools at that time, but they did ok...then Jenks and that was a hot mess.  If you weren't some of the rich kids - ours weren't - it was not a friendly place to be.  Got out of there and went to Tulsa and Union with a short branch out to BA for a year.  All of which were better for the less rich kids.   But then when a grandkid went to Union High about 5 years ago, after being raised in southern Louisiana schools, her comment was, "that school is soooo ghetto..."



Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: Conan71 on November 16, 2017, 10:47:36 pm
Well, we are all up in arms out in Cimarron about the new trails the mule deer are taking as a by-pass from Philmont to Ted Turner's ranch.  They transit my land all the time and aren't even paying toll.

It's scandalous I tell you!


Title: Re: Completeing the Gilcrease Hills expressway
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 17, 2017, 08:32:18 am
Well, we are all up in arms out in Cimarron about the new trails the mule deer are taking as a by-pass from Philmont to Ted Turner's ranch.  They transit my land all the time and aren't even paying toll.

It's scandalous I tell you!


Sounds like a cook out event is imminent... some good eating there.


We have a herd of about 15 to 20 deer that run across our place out north.  And a couple of very good sized Hackberry trees perfect for a tree stand...er, uh,...playhouse for the grandkids...!  When I get the new freezer, it's gonna be put to good use.  And reduce the protein costs dramatically.