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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 09:31:08 am



Title: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 09:31:08 am
I've been trying to stay away from politics this cycle moreso than in the last cycle on this forum, but last night's events force my hand.

First, some of the 'celebrity' speakers (an old soap star and Chachi?).  Then a fellow reality show star (Willie Robertson from Duck Dynasty, the biggest family of sellouts on reality TV).

Then, the presumptive nominee's wife gives a speech which looks like it was lifted from the First Lady's speech in 2008.  Then, the RNC director says the speechwriter should 'probably be fired'.

You think?

My favorite though?

Lou Holtz was seen roaming the floor with Crown Royal bag/bottle in hand.  Hilarious!



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 19, 2016, 09:54:46 am
You know they let Americans in there right?  ;)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ed W on July 19, 2016, 10:28:18 am
Cleveland PD has the Republican convention security traffic on Broadcastify.com. Interesting stuff and a lot of nonsense. "Revolutionary groups, not violent...yet. Have dufflebags and they're changing black t-shirts for white ones."

Trump staffers passing out cease and desist orders to unauthorized vendors.

Suspicious photographers.

Gosh, this is fun!


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 19, 2016, 10:41:27 am
You know they let Americans in there right?  ;)


Are you sure?  Melania was there...she's not American.




Just saw a notice that said no one will be fired for plagiarism...of course.

Have not had much time to look in at it yet, but this whole election cycle has been the most interesting pretty much for ever!!


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 19, 2016, 10:51:54 am

Are you sure?  Melania was there...she's not American.




Just saw a notice that said no one will be fired for plagiarism...of course.

Have not had much time to look in at it yet, but this whole election cycle has been the most interesting pretty much for ever!!


Are her and Trump not married? I guess I just assumed. Seriously though. Or are you saying she's not 'Merican.

Politics (all of it) has devolved into prime time reality TV. The tragic part is that even if I don't watch, I still feel it.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 19, 2016, 11:05:39 am
Are her and Trump not married? I guess I just assumed. Seriously though. Or are you saying she's not 'Merican.

Politics (all of it) has devolved into prime time reality TV. The tragic part is that even if I don't watch, I still feel it.


Yeah, they are married.

She is Slovenian.  Which according to Trump and the other anti-immigrant fan-boys would pretty much say she doesn't deserve to be here....  Guess she is getting 'grandfathered in'.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: patric on July 19, 2016, 11:23:18 am
The nineteen-eighty-four entrance and giant Big Brother screen werent enough... Handling Bob Dole like a sack of potatoes was shameful, and after the General's warmongering speech I fully expected us to announce which country we are bombing next.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 19, 2016, 11:32:01 am

Yeah, they are married.

She is Slovenian.  Which according to Trump and the other anti-immigrant fan-boys would pretty much say she doesn't deserve to be here....  Guess she is getting 'grandfathered in'.


While the speech gaffe thing is pretty funny, I will say that it certainly is no issue for me. As if Michele was the only human on planet earth who could have possibly had those experiences. My guess is the potential first lady writing style guide must be a rather thin volume.

Even if copied, it's 15 seconds of a 15 minute speech. Which now that I think about it, is par for the course for the media. Focus on one small thing, context be damned.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 11:39:56 am
While the speech gaffe thing is pretty funny, I will say that it certainly is no issue for me. As if Michele was the only human on planet earth who could have possibly had those experiences. My guess is the potential first lady writing style guide must be a rather thin volume.

Even if copied, it's 15 seconds of a 15 minute speech. Which now that I think about it, is par for the course for the media. Focus on one small thing, context be damned.

Kinda like that whole 'birther' thing, huh?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 19, 2016, 11:42:27 am
Kinda like that whole 'birther' thing, huh?

What was the context of the whole "birther" thing? that might I add was a democratic conspiracy.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 12:01:02 pm
What was the context of the whole "birther" thing? that might I add was a democratic conspiracy.

And that should matter why?  It started within Clinton supporters who didn't want Obama to get the nom in 2008.  Does that prove it was a democratic conspiracy?  Didn't even start anywhere within her campaign.  Not really any different than what happened to McCain with the 'illegitimate black child' rumor.

Once again, context.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 12:03:57 pm
But, back to the real topic now....

...who is up for creating a drinking game for these proceedings?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 19, 2016, 12:27:18 pm
The plagiarism thing shouldn't have been a big deal:

"Some of you may know that many big speeches like that are written with the help of speech writers (pause of laughs). Mrs. Trump III gave her thoughts and words to our team of writers, and while most of the words were hers, the speech writers tried to help package the speech. Unfortunately, they apparently did so by using language they had heard in Mrs. Obama's speech. Mrs. Trump had no way of knowing this and we will address the issue internally."

Poof. Controversy over. Mrs. Trump exonerated and the campaign goes on with a minor hiccup.

Instead, they deny the similarities. Downplay the reality. Blame Hillary. Say Michelle Obama did it too. Denying it happened at all. Saying they would probably fire the speech writer. Then just moving on after that disjointed reaction. What a cluster.

The entire convention so far has been a mix between head scratcher and face palm. The fact checkers are having lots of fun too - the message isn't going to be compromised by reality!  I'm waiting for the rest of the cast from Idiocracy to take the stage.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 19, 2016, 12:36:46 pm
And that should matter why?  It started within Clinton supporters who didn't want Obama to get the nom in 2008.  Does that prove it was a democratic conspiracy?  Didn't even start anywhere within her campaign.  Not really any different than what happened to McCain with the 'illegitimate black child' rumor.

Once again, context.

I didn't say Clinton, just Democrat. My only qualm was that the example you brought up is completely out of left field and was in no way like what I was describing. Besides the media by and large (including Breitbart) were pretty in sync in denouncing this claim.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 12:40:26 pm
The plagiarism thing shouldn't have been a big deal:

"Some of you may know that many big speeches like that are written with the help of speech writers (pause of laughs). Mrs. Trump III gave her thoughts and words to our team of writers, and while most of the words were hers, the speech writers tried to help package the speech. Unfortunately, they apparently did so by using language they had heard in Mrs. Obama's speech. Mrs. Trump had no way of knowing this and we will address the issue internally."

Poof. Controversy over. Mrs. Trump exonerated and the campaign goes on with a minor hiccup.

Instead, they deny the similarities. Downplay the reality. Blame Hillary. Say Michelle Obama did it too. Denying it happened at all. Saying they would probably fire the speech writer. Then just moving on after that disjointed reaction. What a cluster.

The entire convention so far has been a mix between head scratcher and face palm. The fact checkers are having lots of fun too - the message isn't going to be compromised by reality!  I'm waiting for the rest of the cast from Idiocracy to take the stage.

LOL.  We might be witnessing the death of GOP as I remembered it growing up.  I said this also...I wonder if this isn't just Trump issuing a giant F U to the party and establishment Republicans.  I still hold out that this is Trump with his greatest dupe yet.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 19, 2016, 12:40:59 pm
But, back to the real topic now....

...who is up for creating a drinking game for these proceedings?

What in the world would the game be. It's not focused enough to promote any binging. The RNC's fears are pretty wide spread.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 19, 2016, 12:49:12 pm
Easy. Every time they show or interview a black person with a cowboy hat take a drink. Every time they use the words repeal ObamaCare, take a drink. Every time someone yells out Crooked Hillary, that's two shots and every time the word "Bhengazi" is uttered, beer and a shot.

Any one notice that the lady whose son was killed by a Mexican gang blamed Obama for not doing anything? Problem was it occurred in the summer of 2008. The election was in the fall iirc. Or that Melania says she wrote the entire, speech so what speech writer do you fire? Details, details.

Got to love the Leader's entrance with backlighting and fog. "We're gonna' win. We're gonna' win big." Wonderful theatre.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: swake on July 19, 2016, 12:51:34 pm
RNC Drinking Game – This is for speeches given on the main stage:

1 drink every time someone says “Crooked Hillary”
2 drinks every time someone says “BENGHAZI!”
3 drinks every time someone says “email server”
Take a shot every time an actual elected Republican member of Congress or state governor actually mentions Trump


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 19, 2016, 01:16:02 pm
Stephen Colbert has a RNC Bingo Card generator (http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/convention-bingo/), and it is fantastic. 


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 19, 2016, 01:27:30 pm
Stephen Colbert has a RNC Bingo Card generator (http://www.cbs.com/shows/the-late-show-with-stephen-colbert/convention-bingo/), and it is fantastic. 


Love the refresh - just pitch till ya win...get the card you want...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2016, 02:12:27 pm
I guess my title of the subject was prophetic...

Norovirus outbreak reported among GOP convention staffers (https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/19/norovirus-republican-convention-cleveland/)

So now, it's literally...a s**t show.   ;D


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 19, 2016, 02:54:25 pm
I guess my title of the subject was prophetic...

Norovirus outbreak reported among GOP convention staffers (https://www.statnews.com/2016/07/19/norovirus-republican-convention-cleveland/)

So now, it's literally...a s**t show.   ;D

Best thing to happen in Cleveland yet this week.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: swake on July 19, 2016, 03:08:53 pm
Best thing to happen in Cleveland yet this week.


The Mistake by the Lake


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: davideinstein on July 19, 2016, 03:21:57 pm
Waste of time.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: TheArtist on July 19, 2016, 04:17:27 pm
I think I heard that on several of Trump's construction sites people have died, there have been safety violations, warnings, complaints, etc.  

If Hillary is responsible for the Benghazi deaths, couldn't it be argued that Trump is responsible for the deaths on his development sites?  

I wonder who is responsible for "murdering" (if we are going to use that language for these tragedies) more people under their watch?

If he can't manage a few construction sites, how are we supposed to believe he is going to be more responsible handling the entire US government including its numerous embassies?

Sarcasm off...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 20, 2016, 11:35:56 am
Looks like the speechwriter fell on the sword.  Evidently Melania read passages from the First Lady's speech to her, and she wrote them.  Not necessarily verbatim, but at this point, the damage is done, although the Donald responded to it by saying 'any publicity is good publicity'.

How's that for plagiarism?

This week sure hasn't lacked for entertainment.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 20, 2016, 12:09:20 pm
Looks like the speechwriter fell on the sword.  Evidently Melania read passages from the First Lady's speech to her, and she wrote them.  Not necessarily verbatim, but at this point, the damage is done, although the Donald responded to it by saying 'any publicity is good publicity'.

How's that for plagiarism?

This week sure hasn't lacked for entertainment.


He has also been illegally misappropriating copyright material for his own entertainment objectives.  Stealing Queen's music.  Just another layer of criminal activity he engages in.  Remember the college kids that have been prosecuted and fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for downloading just to listen in the dorm?  Well, Trump is using this in his "sales pitch" to the nation.  Classy as always....



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 20, 2016, 12:18:37 pm
So, after a day and a half of denying it was similar or that it was in any way copied from Michelle's speech, they now say that she read the speech to someone who wrote it down? So basically, yeah... we copied the speech from Michelle.  You think our helping, but...

Listened to a number of highlights, seems like the RNC really hates Hillary, really loves Jesus (who is on their side), hates Obama (who is a Moslem), and are going to make America great again. Other than that, I haven't gotten anything from the convention.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 20, 2016, 12:22:32 pm
What did you all expect to happen? Maybe it's me that just doesn't understand what is supposed to happen at a convention. I'm not saying it's not a dog and pony show, but that's what I expected it to be. Who here thought anything different.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 20, 2016, 02:23:09 pm
What did you all expect to happen? Maybe it's me that just doesn't understand what is supposed to happen at a convention. I'm not saying it's not a dog and pony show, but that's what I expected it to be. Who here thought anything different.


It's exactly what I expected.  As will be the DNC convention.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 20, 2016, 02:34:33 pm

It's exactly what I expected.  As will be the DNC convention.



Oh, I'm pretty sure it will be quite a show.  However, I don't expect norovirus nor anyone calling the opposing party's nominee 'a worshipper of Lucifer'.  This has been quite a week sofar.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 20, 2016, 03:49:07 pm
I expected them to tout their own candidate rather than pillory Hillary and invoke the muslim Obama theme. Really, I expected them to say what they believe in rather than do a negative sell. Very negative. But like most salesmen, Trump is aware of how effective the negative sell can be.

To be succinct, I expected them to behave like adults with some professionalism rather than a Jerry Springer show.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 20, 2016, 07:05:10 pm
I chuckled at this:
Quote
BREAKING NEWS ALERT!!!

(AP) Springfield, Illinois:

The corpse of Abraham Lincoln broke out of its' grave at Oak Ridge Cemetery, stole an ax from a nearby Home Depot, and is now making it's way towards Cleveland. Citizens are advised to avoid all contact with the corpse and immediately remove all Confederate flags from public view.

Live Updates when available....


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 21, 2016, 07:03:37 am
I love that Ted Cruz announced that he thought Republicans should vote their conscious, for the person they think will best lead the country, and the candidate who will uphold the Constitution - and he was booed off the stage.

Also, the guy who wrote "The Art of the Deal" did an interview with the New Yorker. Pretty interesting stuff. Well, not really. Just spending most days with the guy for 18 months reinforced every stereo type of Trump there is. Pure egotist. Attention span of a gnat. Anti-intellectual (Trump couldn't recall the last book he read and only reads stories about himself). Habitual liar - particularly about what he himself did or says.  Attention whore. And a thin skinned bully. 2016.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 21, 2016, 07:10:06 am
I love that Ted Cruz announced that he thought Republicans should vote their conscious, for the person they think will best lead the country, and the candidate who will uphold the Constitution - and he was booed off the stage.

Also, the guy who wrote "The Art of the Deal" did an interview with the New Yorker. Pretty interesting stuff. Well, not really. Just spending most days with the guy for 18 months reinforced every stereo type of Trump there is. Pure egotist. Attention span of a gnat. Anti-intellectual (Trump couldn't recall the last book he read and only reads stories about himself). Habitual liar - particularly about what he himself did or says.  Attention whore. And a thin skinned bully. 2016.

That author was guest on Maher's live show from Cleveland last night.  He was pretty emphatic about all you just said.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 21, 2016, 07:25:23 am
I expected them to tout their own candidate rather than pillory Hillary and invoke the muslim Obama theme. Really, I expected them to say what they believe in rather than do a negative sell. Very negative. But like most salesmen, Trump is aware of how effective the negative sell can be.

To be succinct, I expected them to behave like adults with some professionalism rather than a Jerry Springer show.


Lol... Love your satire!!!


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 21, 2016, 07:47:17 am
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0891/8314/products/11_1024x1024.jpg?v=1462546577)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 21, 2016, 09:08:00 am
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0891/8314/products/11_1024x1024.jpg?v=1462546577)

Think I'm stealing that for FB....that's awesome stuff right there.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 21, 2016, 08:48:28 pm

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/puffy%20shirt_zpsccm1hfhi.jpg)



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 21, 2016, 08:56:42 pm
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/puffy%20shirt_zpsccm1hfhi.jpg)



Saw that on my sister-in-law's FB feed about 10 minutes ago.  Hilarious


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 05:02:18 am
Saw that on my sister-in-law's FB feed about 10 minutes ago.  Hilarious

While it's still funny, you know that's photo shopped right?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 05:53:29 am
From what I heard last night (not all of that hour plus rambling), it sounds like Trump is "feeling the Bern". Or better yet, he think those that do feel the Bern will be feeling like voting for him instead of Clinton. It sounds outlandish and probably is because of the brainwashing that goes on in this country, but Trump and the Bern have quit a bit in common. Their economic protectionism in particular. It seems Trump as well is a bit of a libertarian when it comes to all the LGBTQ issues, similar to Bern. While not to the same degree, Bernie is certainly much more of a restrictionist than Hillary would be on immigration. They both love women (apparently enough to marry a handful each).  ;D Crazy hair. Both are certainly off script most of the time.

But all the press must be right, Trump is a Nazi and want's to enslave blacks, and deport non-white's.

Peter Thiel (who has some radical ideas of his own in regards to self-governing) even got up and gave his shtick, which I imagine resonates well with most conservatives. Simply put, the fake "culture war" is just a distraction from the real issues that effect most of our lives. Peter is a gutsy guy to be showing his face their considering his line of work. It certainly flies in the face of virtually all of his peers and likely costs him investment opportunities in his VC efforts.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 22, 2016, 06:30:43 am
While it's still funny, you know that's photo shopped right?

Your point being?....


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 22, 2016, 06:54:29 am
From what I heard last night (not all of that hour plus rambling), it sounds like Trump is "feeling the Bern". Or better yet, he think those that do feel the Bern will be feeling like voting for him instead of Clinton. It sounds outlandish and probably is because of the brainwashing that goes on in this country, but Trump and the Bern have quit a bit in common. Their economic protectionism in particular. It seems Trump as well is a bit of a libertarian when it comes to all the LGBTQ issues, similar to Bern. While not to the same degree, Bernie is certainly much more of a restrictionist than Hillary would be on immigration. They both love women (apparently enough to marry a handful each).  ;D Crazy hair. Both are certainly off script most of the time.

But all the press must be right, Trump is a Nazi and want's to enslave blacks, and deport non-white's.

Peter Thiel (who has some radical ideas of his own in regards to self-governing) even got up and gave his shtick, which I imagine resonates well with most conservatives. Simply put, the fake "culture war" is just a distraction from the real issues that effect most of our lives. Peter is a gutsy guy to be showing his face their considering his line of work. It certainly flies in the face of virtually all of his peers and likely costs him investment opportunities in his VC efforts.

On the scale of political ideology, an extreme socialist is not too far away from a fascist. However, respectfully, neither of these guys fit those descriptions. Bernie stayed pretty true to his script the whole campaign and, while Trump has failed to discipline himself to not speak about things he has little understanding of, he at least stayed true to his negative view of America. One is an outsider who has dedicated himself to social issues within the establishment of Congress. The other is a (arguably crooked) businessman dedicated to his own aggrandizement. So, though you stretched pretty hard, I really don't see your comparisons as accurate.

Its yet to be determined if Trump is the tip of an iceberg of political revolution or just a dog who finally caught the bus and doesn't know how to let go. Either way, the cycle of politics has to change. Under 35's have grown up with different paradigms and a cynicism nurtured by political propagandists. Whether its this election or the next, the artificial choices of conservative vs liberal are going to pass.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 22, 2016, 07:43:54 am
Quote
So if you want to hear the corporate spin, the carefully-crafted lies, and the media myths the Democrats are holding their convention next week. Go there.

But here, at our convention, there will be no lies. We will honor the American people with the truth, and nothing else.

This is too much! Lets look at the factual statements in his speech that followed this very claim:

Claim: I will present the facts plainly and honestly.
Fact: Donald Trump has lied more than any presidential candidate in history. Fact checkers illustrate that less than 20% of his fact based statements are true.

Claim: The number of police officers killed in the line of duty has risen by almost 50% compared to this point last year.
Fact: 8%

Claim:  58% of African-American youth are now not employed.
Fact: 38%

Claim: 2 million more Latinos are in poverty today than when President Obama took his oath of office less than eight years ago.
Fact: True! But spin. There were millions more Latinos than there were 8 years ago, the poverty rate declined. That's good news!

Claim: Household incomes are down more than $4,000 since the year 2000. That's sixteen years ago.
Fact: True! But spin. The drop under Bush accounts for $2,500 of that, and Obamas first three years account for most of the rest.

Claim: In Libya, our consulate – the symbol of American prestige around the globe – was brought down in flames.
Fact: It wasn't a consulate, it was a "Temporary Mission Facility."

Claim: That is why Hillary Clinton's message is that things will never change. Never ever.
Fact: Hillary has detailed plans to change immigration, to criminal justice, to higher education, to...

Claim [Referring to Trumps opposition to Free Trade] In this cause, I am proud to have at my side the next Vice President of the United States: Governor Mike Pence of Indiana. . .
Fact: Pence is strongly in favor of free Trade.

Claim: I will do everything in my power to protect our LGBTQ citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology
Fact: The Log Cabin Republicans have called the current GOP platform the "most anti-LGBT platform" in GOP history, which seems to indicate the oppression and hatred isn't foreign

Claim: there's no way to screen Syrian refugees in order to find out who they are or where they come from.
Fact: Refugees are screen by the host government, then by the UN, them by the State Department, then by the FBI, etc.

Claim: Remember, it was Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA, one of the worst economic deals ever made by our country. Or frankly, any other country. Never ever again.
Fact: True with spin, and false. Bill did sign NAFTA, after it was negotiated by GH Bush and approved by a Republican Congress. Also, Congressional studies show the agreement was a wash for jobs (neither producing the great boom or great bust each side predicted).

Claim:  Excessive regulation is costing our country as much as $2 trillion a year, and we will end it very, very quickly.
Fact: He rounded up the highest estimate, which was a "spit ball" not based on actual data. Likely hyperbole.  The statement that he will end "as much as $2T" in regulation is absolutely false.

Claim: We are going to lift the restrictions on the production of American energy.
Fact: We produce more energy today than ever before, so much "drill baby drill" was done under Obama that the USA has turned the global energy market on its head and, some argue, collapsed the price of oil and gas.

Claim: We will completely rebuild our depleted military
Fact: Adjusted for inflation, we spend as much or more (depending on what you count) on military than we did under Reagan or GW

Claim: My just released 10 point plan has received tremendous veteran support.
Fact: Recent polls indicate a record number of military personnel will vote for a 3rd party candidate

Claim: I, on the other hand, received the early and strong endorsement of the National Rifle Association and will protect the right of all Americans to keep their families safe.
Fact: Before running for office he was in favor of assault weapons bans, a mandatory waiting period, and universal background checks.

Claim: My Dad, Fred Trump. . . it's because of him that I learned, from my youngest age, to respect the dignity of work and the dignity of working people.
Fact: Fred Trump was so hated by working people (particularly minorities) that Woody Guthrie wrote a song about him called "Old Man Trump."

Claim: This was just prior to the signing of the Iran deal, which gave back to Iran $150 billion and gave us absolutely nothing – it will go down in history as one of the worst deals ever negotiated.
Fact: Repeatedly debunked talking point.

Claim: America is a nation of believers, dreamers, and strivers that is being led by a group of censors...
Fact: Trump has almost certainly sent more letters and sued more people attempting to censor people than any other politician in the history of America.

Claim: My opponent asks her supporters to recite a three-word loyalty pledge. It reads: "I'm With Her". I choose to recite a different pledge.
Fact: They chant it at rallies, they aren't asked to recite it. The campaign slogan is technically "Stronger Together."


Overall, the fact checkers give him around a 50% mark for the speech. Some higher, some lower. But only lying 50% of the time is a really good job for Trump.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 22, 2016, 07:57:04 am
I'm interested if Bernie's supporters might flock to Gary Johnson.  He's probably closer to Bernie's social views than Trump.  He's also a realist on immigration since he was governor of a border state with Mexico.  He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cynical on July 22, 2016, 08:46:30 am
Only those who will never vote for Hillary. Bernie's views are sort of barely in the same universe as Johnson's, just as they are sort of in the same universe with Trump, Cruz. His views align better with Hillary's than anyone else's.

There's more to Johnson's platform than marijuana legalization. Elimination of the welfare state is central to Libertarian thought, including programs such as social security and medicare. Deregulation of the economy is also central. No SEC, no FTC, no DoE, no subsidies, no EPA, no public schools, no income tax, no duty to bargain collectively, etc, etc. Does that sound remotely like Bernie's views on anything? Abortion, MJ, LGBT issues, perhaps. Everything else is pretty much pure anarchism. It should be attractive to conservatives turned off by Trump's authoritarianism, but not to the most ardent Hillary hater on the left.

https://www.lp.org/platform (https://www.lp.org/platform)

Jill Stein of the Green Party is overtly making a play for disaffected Bernie supporters. Anyone who wants to make a protest vote for a fringe movement can go there, except in Oklahoma where she won't be on the ballot. Oddly, the Green Party website is listing Oklahoma as a "write-in/legislative action" state, perhaps unaware that write-in votes spoil the voter's entire ballot in Oklahoma.

I'm interested if Bernie's supporters might flock to Gary Johnson.  He's probably closer to Bernie's social views than Trump.  He's also a realist on immigration since he was governor of a border state with Mexico.  He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ibanez on July 22, 2016, 09:08:50 am
I'm interested if Bernie's supporters might flock to Gary Johnson.  He's probably closer to Bernie's social views than Trump.  He's also a realist on immigration since he was governor of a border state with Mexico.  He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.

Lifelong Republican here. I will be voting for Gary Johnson. I know many more like me. In fact of all my Republican friends I only know of one who is voting for Trump. She's an idiot though so it doesn't surprise me.

I am also friends with several Democrats who will be voting for Johnson. The split is still probably 80/20 in her favor among my Democrat friends, but I am still a bit surprised by it.

It would be great if he were part of the debates.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 22, 2016, 09:19:18 am
The problem with the third parties or alternative parties is that they only seem to come out for the Presidential elections.  Start coming out for local/state legistlative/Congressional elections if you want to be taken seriously.  Until that point, the only thing they'll really ever be is a punch line or vote spoiler.

I like Gary Johnson too.  I just wish more of these alternatives would run in down-ballot races.  It would legitimize their standing.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on July 22, 2016, 09:34:19 am
The problem with the third parties or alternative parties is that they only seem to come out for the Presidential elections.  Start coming out for local/state legistlative/Congressional elections if you want to be taken seriously.  Until that point, the only thing they'll really ever be is a punch line or vote spoiler.

I like Gary Johnson too.  I just wish more of these alternatives would run in down-ballot races.  It would legitimize their standing.

Same here.  It will be interesting to see if Johnson stays with the Libertarian party and helps them with local/state politics after this run is over.  This is the first year that Libertarian party is on every state presidential ballot.   That should give them some room to move to get on more local elections.   I think we can assume that no matter which side wins, there are going to be a lot of disaffected voters, and the time is right for a strong third party (which the Libertarians seem to finally be gelling into) to actually make inroads locally.   If they could just win a few local/state elections at the next mid-terms it would be really interesting in four years.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 22, 2016, 10:01:53 am
FYI: the Libertarians (and other third parties) were/are effectively banned from the ballot in Oklahoma. If you don't have a D or an R next to your name, you need a crippling number of signatures to get on the ballot in Oklahoma. To get on the ballot you need 5% of the voter turnout in the last election to get on the ballot. So... 50-70,000 signatures each and every election. That number was reduced to 3%.

Still, it's a hard sell when people get tired of the effort time and time again. Much harder again when it is an off-year election or a minor candidate trying to get on a ballot.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cynical on July 22, 2016, 10:10:28 am
The Libertarian Party is on the ballot here as of March of this year. The Green Party is not.

FYI: the Libertarians (and other third parties) were/are effectively banned from the ballot in Oklahoma. If you don't have a D or an R next to your name, you need a crippling number of signatures to get on the ballot in Oklahoma. To get on the ballot you need 5% of the voter turnout in the last election to get on the ballot. So... 50-70,000 signatures each and every election. That number was reduced to 3%.

Still, it's a hard sell when people get tired of the effort time and time again. Much harder again when it is an off-year election or a minor candidate trying to get on a ballot.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: patric on July 22, 2016, 10:16:08 am

Claim: The number of police officers killed in the line of duty has risen by almost 50% compared to this point last year.
Fact: 8%


Today the Officer Down Memorial page says its  -1%


https://www.odmp.org/search/year


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 11:47:20 am
Today the Officer Down Memorial page says its  -1%


https://www.odmp.org/search/year

I don't know specifically what they are looking at without being thorough with the list (which I don't have time right now), but in 2015 there were 39 gunfire related deaths, so far in 2016 there have been 31. If you look a lot of the deaths are not necessarily what you would consider a murder. Think auto accidents, falling, heart attacks. They include them all, even 9/11 related illnesses of which there were 8 last year and only 1 so far this year. To say there is not an increase in violence towards cops at least on a measurable level is disillusion. There has been what would equate to 1/5 of a year's worth of gunfire related cop fatalities in one week. Hopefully it is an anomaly. But it doesn't discount the "fact".


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 22, 2016, 12:04:46 pm
This is too much! Lets look at the factual statements in his speech that followed this very claim:

Claim: I will present the facts plainly and honestly.
Fact: Donald Trump has lied more than any presidential candidate in history. Fact checkers illustrate that less than 20% of his fact based statements are true.



Thank you!



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 22, 2016, 12:09:05 pm

He's making an awful lot of sense to this Libertarian, anyhow.



You are way smarter than to embrace more than just a fraction of their mostly adolescent stuff.....


Some nice sound bites that can give a sense of longing for a false time past, but when you step even an inch beyond the 'curtain', it unravels quickly.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 22, 2016, 12:13:52 pm
Conan, doesn't any of this give you pause to reflect?

"There's more to Johnson's platform than marijuana legalization. Elimination of the welfare state is central to Libertarian thought, including programs such as social security and medicare. Deregulation of the economy is also central. No SEC, no FTC, no DoE, no subsidies, no EPA, no public schools, no income tax, no duty to bargain collectively, etc, etc. Does that sound remotely like Bernie's views on anything? Abortion, MJ, LGBT issues, perhaps. Everything else is pretty much pure anarchism. "

To me these planks of the platform point towards chaos. Even if never accomplished they are roadmaps to the late 19th century.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 22, 2016, 12:24:26 pm
I don't know specifically what they are looking at without being thorough with the list (which I don't have time right now), but in 2015 there were 39 gunfire related deaths, so far in 2016 there have been 31. If you look a lot of the deaths are not necessarily what you would consider a murder. Think auto accidents, falling, heart attacks. They include them all, even 9/11 related illnesses of which there were 8 last year and only 1 so far this year. To say there is not an increase in violence towards cops at least on a measurable level is disillusion. There has been what would equate to 1/5 of a year's worth of gunfire related cop fatalities in one week. Hopefully it is an anomaly. But it doesn't discount the "fact".


These type events look alarming, and it is alarming that anyone is killed during police related events, but this year cannot be compared in any meaningfully statistically way to just last year.  The year may end up higher than last, but in 2013 there were 31 total, so 2014 saw about a 25% increase....is that number meaningful?  Not yet.  A few more years will be required to see if this is a real trend or just a blip.  The decade average is 53 - this year is still likely to be lower than that....


9/11 had 72 officers killed in 1 day - putting us on "pace" late that afternoon for more than 26,000 police deaths per year.  Not meaningful.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 01:06:12 pm

These type events look alarming, and it is alarming that anyone is killed during police related events, but this year cannot be compared in any meaningfully statistically way to just last year.  The year may end up higher than last, but in 2013 there were 31 total, so 2014 saw about a 25% increase....is that number meaningful?  Not yet.  A few more years will be required to see if this is a real trend or just a blip.  The decade average is 53 - this year is still likely to be lower than that....


9/11 had 72 officers killed in 1 day - putting us on "pace" late that afternoon for more than 26,000 police deaths per year.  Not meaningful.



I'm with you. I was just pointing out how they likely came up with that meaningless, yet probably entirely accurate stat.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 01:08:54 pm

Thank you!



The same fact checks that "fact checked" the statements made by a grieving mother? Fact checkers have been notorious cherry pickers. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say. Not necessarily what they say, but what they don't say.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 22, 2016, 01:22:05 pm
The same fact checks that "fact checked" the statements made by a grieving mother? Fact checkers have been notorious cherry pickers. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say. Not necessarily what they say, but what they don't say.


Well, regardless of what the fact checkers say, if one has been listening to Trump at all, it's very easy to find the lies, distortions, and twisted comments - they are in every contradictory statement he makes.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 01:46:43 pm

Well, regardless of what the fact checkers say, if one has been listening to Trump at all, it's very easy to find the lies, distortions, and twisted comments - they are in every contradictory statement he makes.



Trump doesn't have an exclusive claim to that trait.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 22, 2016, 02:08:11 pm
Trump doesn't have an exclusive claim to that trait.


Absolutely not.   But when you compare the relative "whopper-ness", he is light years above and beyond.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 22, 2016, 02:16:43 pm

Absolutely not.   But when you compare the relative "whopper-ness", he is light years above and beyond.



I love watching people try and defend this guy.  My mother is rolling over in her grave.  She was by no means a republican but I'm betting had she lived she would have gotten a kick out of all this.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 02:29:19 pm
I love watching people try and defend this guy.  My mother is rolling over in her grave.  She was by no means a republican but I'm betting had she lived she would have gotten a kick out of all this.

The same could be said for his opponent.

Look, I'm with you. Defending the indefensible is not the way I look at it. It's analyzing which sucks less.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 22, 2016, 02:36:37 pm
The same could be said for his opponent.

Look, I'm with you. Defending the indefensible is not the way I look at it. It's analyzing which sucks less.

But as H has said, this guy lies daily.  He loves telling whoppers.

I hate to roll out a Nazi comparison, but it's like Goebbel's quote:  "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Drumpf is a snake oil salesman.  We have people uninformed enough and lazy enough to believe him.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 02:38:46 pm
But as H has said, this guy lies daily.  He loves telling whoppers.

I hate to roll out a Nazi comparison, but it's like Goebbel's quote:  "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Drumpf is a snake oil salesman.  We have people uninformed enough and lazy enough to believe him.

Name one lie he has been consistent on.  ;D

This is a joke. I just notice, like many politicians, he plays to his audience, regardless of who it is. He will be what he needs to be to close the deal (except modest).


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 22, 2016, 02:44:38 pm
Conan, doesn't any of this give you pause to reflect?

"There's more to Johnson's platform than marijuana legalization. Elimination of the welfare state is central to Libertarian thought, including programs such as social security and medicare. Deregulation of the economy is also central. No SEC, no FTC, no DoE, no subsidies, no EPA, no public schools, no income tax, no duty to bargain collectively, etc, etc. Does that sound remotely like Bernie's views on anything? Abortion, MJ, LGBT issues, perhaps. Everything else is pretty much pure anarchism. "

To me these planks of the platform point towards chaos. Even if never accomplished they are roadmaps to the late 19th century.

Read the entire platform and Johnson’s own position statements.  Don’t take someone else’s summary of it as Gospel. 

http://www.johnsonweld.com/

I don’t agree with every facet of the platform, but I find myself far more in agreement with it than that of the Democrat or Republican platforms.  The GOP has taken a hard right into moral stupidity and both of the leading parties represent complacency and cleptocracy.  How much good has it done the public to have politicians picking winners and losers in bank bailouts, stimulus packages, and all sorts of taxpayer-funded incentives to large contributor’s corporations?

How many of you Democrats or Republicans can say you really still agree 100% with the platforms and actions of either of the legislating members of these parties these days?



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on July 22, 2016, 03:10:58 pm
Read the entire platform and Johnson’s own position statements.  Don’t take someone else’s summary of it as Gospel. 

http://www.johnsonweld.com/

I don’t agree with every facet of the platform, but I find myself far more in agreement with it than that of the Democrat or Republican platforms.  The GOP has taken a hard right into moral stupidity and both of the leading parties represent complacency and cleptocracy.  How much good has it done the public to have politicians picking winners and losers in bank bailouts, stimulus packages, and all sorts of taxpayer-funded incentives to large contributor’s corporations?

How many of you Democrats or Republicans can say you really still agree 100% with the platforms and actions of either of the legislating members of these parties these days?

+1           #feelthejohnson     


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 22, 2016, 03:16:47 pm
#feelthejohnson     


Something makes me feel a little dirty repeating that.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 22, 2016, 03:44:32 pm
I saw a discussion of Johnson's stand on issues. I couldn't find a platform. A bit more sophisticated wording than Trump's positions but still heavily slanted towards negative views. Apparently nothing works well and it all must be recreated from ground up. May be true, but I doubt it would gain much support when average, aging, white labor finds out their safety net is in the hands of free range businessmen who don't have their interests at heart. The "solutions" offered, once the sugar is dusted off, seemed pretty drastic and it seemed like Cynical might have summed them up pretty well. Its likely that, like any new party, it will depend on strong young voter mobilization. Too bad about the VRA being gutted.

Still, I am very much in favor of any new party that forces the others to stand and deliver.  



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 22, 2016, 05:39:37 pm
I saw a discussion of Johnson's stand on issues. I couldn't find a platform. A bit more sophisticated wording than Trump's positions but still heavily slanted towards negative views. Apparently nothing works well and it all must be recreated from ground up. May be true, but I doubt it would gain much support when average, aging, white labor finds out their safety net is in the hands of free range businessmen who don't have their interests at heart. The "solutions" offered, once the sugar is dusted off, seemed pretty drastic and it seemed like Cynical might have summed them up pretty well. Its likely that, like any new party, it will depend on strong young voter mobilization. Too bad about the VRA being gutted.

Still, I am very much in favor of any new party that forces the others to stand and deliver.  



The other parties are delivering shitsandwiches, I really want them to cease and desist.

Start here:

https://www.lp.org/platform

Every party has, at its core, an idealistic platform.  That gets tempered by reality and opposing forces in legislation.

There have been somewhat incorrect stereotypes about the Libertarian party for years.  People who are more comfortable with the broken status quo tend to brush off the Libertarians as an upstart bunch of kooks.  I believe as more disaffected moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans start to realize they have more in common, they could find each other in the Libertarian party.  As that party grows, I think you will see more pragmatism.  

There has to be some government intervention.  There has to be some regulation to keep order and there has to be a revenue stream for government to operate.  However, not even current government regulation is stopping the creation of monopolies.  Mega banks still merge.  Mega communication companies still merge.  Heck, the DOJ even signed off this week on a huge merger of beer giants which will leave one company with a 29% global market share of the beer market.  How is that for the great regulatory arm of government?

I personally like a government that stays out of marriage and my bedroom.  I like a government which does not pick winners and losers based on whomever is donating the most money to keep their friends in power.  I like the idea of a government which doesn’t mismanage resources through a series of redundant and broken bureaucracies.  I really believe the federal government has managed to screw up the education system with no regard for state-by-state needs.

Johnson and I see eye-to-eye on many issues.  I left the GOP about six or seven years ago because there was no place in it for me anymore.  Philosophically, I see the Libertarian Party as being somewhat like the GOP before the GOP was hi-jacked by the Christian Right.  I’ve always felt this way politically, though my social views have definitely gravitated toward the more liberal side of things in the last 10 or 15 years.

Most of the people I know who feel left behind by the GOP seem to feel the same way.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 22, 2016, 05:54:37 pm
I'm happy for you. I find all I need in the Democratic party but I perceive it differently than you. Not perfect but workable. I like the idea of progressing through time with new ideas and intelligent discussion. The best, the brightest etc. I don't see that in the conservative leaning Republican party. So, if Libertarians replace Republicans it won't bother me much. Any party has to deal with a Congress that thinks it is the real power. Its embarrassing to me to see my generation slop at the conservatives only and Tea Party trough and to believe in such morality bs.

But, I suspect within a decade any emerging party will also be co-opted, corrupted and complacent.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 22, 2016, 07:40:02 pm

But, I suspect within a decade any emerging party will also be co-opted, corrupted and complacent.


It is politics, after all.  ;D


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 22, 2016, 11:55:24 pm
It is politics, after all.  ;D

The simple solution?  Campaign finance reform.  Too bad neither party has the balls to do it.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 23, 2016, 07:24:49 am
Perhaps a crisis will effect campaign reform. Like if Texas secedes or is invaded, or Minnesota admits its been secretly socialist all along! Really, it seems like tragedy and crisis is all that effects change.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 23, 2016, 12:09:53 pm
The simple solution?  Campaign finance reform.  Too bad neither party has the balls to do it.

That and term limits, but again there is this lack of balls thingy.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 23, 2016, 12:29:13 pm
That and term limits, but again there is this lack of balls thingy.

Yeah, that too...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 23, 2016, 05:54:43 pm
There has been what would equate to 1/5 of a year's worth of gunfire related cop fatalities in one week.

....and a corresponding uptick in police violence against civilians; some particularly outrageous
Cop "doesnt know why" he shot autistic worker (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91406042.html).


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Breadburner on July 24, 2016, 08:45:52 pm
Lol...Now whats a smile show...Exactly...???


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Breadburner on July 24, 2016, 08:50:42 pm
I've been trying to stay away from politics this cycle moreso than in the last cycle on this forum, but last night's events force my hand.

First, some of the 'celebrity' speakers (an old soap star and Chachi?).  Then a fellow reality show star (Willie Robertson from Duck Dynasty, the biggest family of sellouts on reality TV).

Then, the presumptive nominee's wife gives a speech which looks like it was lifted from the First Lady's speech in 2008.  Then, the RNC director says the speechwriter should 'probably be fired'.

You think?

My favorite though?




Lou Holtz was seen roaming the floor with Crown Royal bag/bottle in hand.  Hilarious!


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoLMKKJUIAAKnuz.jpg:small)




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 24, 2016, 09:48:30 pm


I don't think it's going to be able to hold a candle to that s**tshow we just saw in Cleveland, as much as the Republicans would want it to.  Had they got a decent candidate maybe...

Scott Baio?  Really?  That's nearly as bad as Eastwood with the chair...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Breadburner on July 25, 2016, 05:21:53 am
I don't think it's going to be able to hold a candle to that s**tshow we just saw in Cleveland, as much as the Republicans would want it to.  Had they got a decent candidate maybe...

Scott Baio?  Really?  That's nearly as bad as Eastwood with the chair...

How far in the sand is your head....???


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 25, 2016, 05:41:42 am
How far in the sand is your head....???

Obviously not far as yours is.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on July 25, 2016, 07:03:36 am
I don't think it's going to be able to hold a candle to that s**tshow we just saw in Cleveland, as much as the Republicans would want it to.  Had they got a decent candidate maybe...

Scott Baio?  Really?  That's nearly as bad as Eastwood with the chair...

Baio was worse.  Eastwood went rogue and didn't follow the script, but he's Clint Eastwood, so it wasn't a bad call strategically.   Scott Baio is all Trump could get.  That speaks volumes.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 25, 2016, 07:14:28 am
Baio was worse.  Eastwood went rogue and didn't follow the script, but he's Clint Eastwood, so it wasn't a bad call strategically.   Scott Baio is all Trump could get.  That speaks volumes.

Scott's career is already toast. It's generally bad for business to be associated with Republicans in Hollywood. It doesn't really speak all that much to anything except that Hollywood is liberal.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 25, 2016, 07:17:50 am
enjoy yourselves boys. This election is over except the theatrics.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 25, 2016, 08:00:06 am
That and term limits, but again there is this lack of balls thingy.


That AND campaign finance reform....it isn't the politicians - they are ONLY doing what we tell them and elect them for!   

It's us.  We put them in, and we can take them out.  But we don't.  Because we like our guys.  It's just all the other people's guys that are the problem....not ours.




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 25, 2016, 08:11:10 am
Gary Johnson on the issues:
https://www.johnsonweld.com/issues

More hit than miss from me. Some of the points are debatable, but at least he lays them out there. Reeks of pragmatism and a core belief that government is the "official" and shouldn't be in the game or influencing the outcome of the game. The guy delivers some hard truths in a succinct manner that will piss off the left and the right. Some of what his positions don't work for me, some of the Libertarian platform is a conspiracy based, but overall...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 25, 2016, 08:13:33 am

That AND campaign finance reform....it isn't the politicians - they are ONLY doing what we tell them and elect them for!   

It's us.  We put them in, and we can take them out.  But we don't.  Because we like our guys.  It's just all the other people's guys that are the problem....not ours.




I usually think that line of thinking carries water, however I rarely meet anyone that is really that high on Inhofe, so I think it may be a little more complicated than that. I always just say follow the money. That is almost certainly the answer to every political question.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 25, 2016, 08:14:04 am
Gary Johnson on the issues:
https://www.johnsonweld.com/issues

More hit than miss from me. Some of the points are debatable, but at least he lays them out there. Reeks of pragmatism and a core belief that government is the "official" and shouldn't be in the game or influencing the outcome of the game. The guy delivers some hard truths in a succinct manner that will piss off the left and the right. Some of what his positions don't work for me, some of the Libertarian platform is a conspiracy based, but overall...

Agreed.  I'm still undecided...except that I won't be voting for Trump.  My problem with the Libertarian party is that at its core they want government gone (essentially).  No medicare or medicaid or social security.  However, they're not so socially restrictive (really not at all restrictive) as the Conservatives tend to be.  I'm all for smaller government, but Libertarians (not all) tend to want no government.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 25, 2016, 08:20:08 am
I usually think that line of thinking carries water, however I rarely meet anyone that is really that high on Inhofe, so I think it may be a little more complicated than that. I always just say follow the money. That is almost certainly the answer to every political question.


Probably don't meet anyone high on Inhofe because you don't hang around with people that do like him.  I try hard to hang around with people who are smart enough to recognize what he is and what he has done to this state, but even certain branches of my family are not smart enough to act on it, even when they DO recognize it.  A lot of it goes to how brilliantly he choreographs his lie campaigns - and that's all they have ever been, is an ongoing litany of lies against whatever opponent dares to run against him.  And the weak minded in this state - and yeah, sad to say, that is a small part of my family - keep electing him.

Absolutely - it IS always about following the money!




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 25, 2016, 10:03:59 am
Agreed.  I'm still undecided...except that I won't be voting for Trump.  My problem with the Libertarian party is that at its core they want government gone (essentially).  No medicare or medicaid or social security.  However, they're not so socially restrictive (really not at all restrictive) as the Conservatives tend to be.  I'm all for smaller government, but Libertarians (not all) tend to want no government.

And there again, that is why we have checks and balances.  If Johnson became president, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security could not be dismantled by one person.  The characterization of the Libertarian Party being a bunch of anarchists is over-played and perhaps they need to take a more pragmatic look at their platform. 

My values definitely align best with the Libertarians, but I don’t know if I will ever register as one or remain an independent in the long term.

I do believe if many more pragmatic thinkers like some of us on here who no longer associate with the D or R parties (*cough*) would get involved, the L party could become that viable third party which has not seemed to happen as of yet.  I’m sure there are many Bernie supporters and moderate Dems who can’t stand Hillary just as I believe there are Tea Party types and moderate GOP types who just don’t care for Trump.  There is enough critical mass of disaffected voters now that it looks better for a third party than it has in some time.  Is it enough to topple either Hillary or Trump in this election?  I doubt it, but it puts the party on the map.

Voting for Hillary, to me, would be voting for more of the same.  I believe Trump rose to the top of the GOP because people are sick of the status quo, but he’s just not the answer.  He lacks the temperament and knowledge to lead a government.  It’s one thing to run your own business empire, entirely another to run an empire.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 25, 2016, 11:49:48 am

It’s one thing to run your own business empire into the ground, entirely another to run an empire into the ground.



Fixed it.   


And he couldn't have repeatedly done the bankruptcy thing if it hadn't been for Daddy Trump bailing him out every step of the way.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 25, 2016, 11:57:58 am

Fixed it.   


And he couldn't have repeatedly done the bankruptcy thing if it hadn't been for Daddy Trump bailing him out every step of the way.



So you're saying Trump would be good for the country?  ;)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 25, 2016, 12:06:43 pm
So you're saying Trump would be good for the country?  ;)


See reply 8, here;

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21360.new#new



Actually, I have said before that perhaps we should just go ahead and elect him, get this Clown Show accelerated and get it run into the ground sooner, rather than dragging it out.  At least that way, there may still be enough usable ruins to at least try to recover.  For 35 years it has been like pulling a bandaid off a hairy arm very slowly.  Just rip the thing off and get it over with!!



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 25, 2016, 01:40:45 pm

Fixed it.   

And he couldn't have repeatedly done the bankruptcy thing if it hadn't been for Daddy Trump bailing him out every step of the way.


Actually, that’s not entirely true.  Fred was dead when the last two bankruptcies were filed.  A fast read on the history of the two filed in the 1990’s shows he sold off other assets and a percent of his ownership in the enterprises.  No idea if his dad bought any of those assets or not.

There’s little doubt Drumpf probably would not be where he is today were it not for his father’s slums er head start, but he has managed to build upon that empire.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 25, 2016, 02:20:31 pm
Looks like Tiny Hands will be having an AMA (Ask me Anything) night on Reddit Wednesday.  It might be worth it simply for entertainment value...problem is, it will be held not in the traditional Reddit AMA thread (/r/iAma/ I think it is), it will be held in his own Reddit room.  Guess it's Ask me Anything as long as I can vet who it is....LOL.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoNu4hbW8AASJXp.jpg:large)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 25, 2016, 02:37:16 pm
There’s little doubt Drumpf probably would not be where he is today were it not for his father’s slums er head start, but he has managed to build upon that empire.

If by "build" an empire you mean he earned less with his inherited contacts and fortunes than the average investor...than sure. But for most people, starting with a huge head start and ending up with a lower return than Average Joe isn't impressive. If I started out in a 1000 meter race with a 500 meter head start over some random 10 year old, and won that race by 400 meters... no one should be wowed by my ability.

The only reason Trump is rich is because he started off rich. Analysis seems to support the fact that had he given the money to someone else to manage for him, even the most basic index fund, he'd be far better off.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2016/03/03/has-donald-trump-underperformed-in-the-real-estate-business/#14e2221e5506

Sadly, this is the state we present our country in. Currently, we are better off than most. That lead is so insurmountable that it is unlikely to fully yield in a lifetime. But with the right mismanagement, we can certainly perform below average.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 25, 2016, 02:49:41 pm
If by "build" an empire you mean he earned less with his inherited contacts and fortunes than the average investor...than sure. But for most people, starting with a huge head start and ending up with a lower return than Average Joe isn't impressive. If I started out in a 1000 meter race with a 500 meter head start over some random 10 year old, and won that race by 400 meters... no one should be wowed by my ability.

The only reason Trump is rich is because he started off rich. Analysis seems to support the fact that had he given the money to someone else to manage for him, even the most basic index fund, he'd be far better off.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2016/03/03/has-donald-trump-underperformed-in-the-real-estate-business/#14e2221e5506

Sadly, this is the state we present our country in. Currently, we are better off than most. That lead is so insurmountable that it is unlikely to fully yield in a lifetime. But with the right mismanagement, we can certainly perform below average.

I'm not going to go too far into detail, but just a few things.

Let's just say you and I start with $200 M. You spend $100M of it on non-investments, I don't. What happens?

Academia is great isn't it. To quote Keven Costner "Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy." But you are inclined to believe it, so it's proof.

I have no idea how well Trump's investments have performed (other than a handful of casino's  ;)), they are all private investments. I also don't know what he spends on hair pieces (a lot I'm sure). It all factors in. That and the fact that he obviously does much more than real estate. Books, TV, public speaking. I do feel pretty confident that he has made a lot of money, and not by accident, and not all because of daddy (unless you are counting rearing and training as because of daddy). If that's the case then you didn't earn anything either on your own, it was only because of your daddy. Now that I saw that it does fit nicely into the whole "you didn't build that" mentality.

Guys, get over this, there is plenty of stuff to go after Trump on (less than Clinton in my opinion but plenty). Don't resort to hypothetical and characterizations of him. Also, my faith in the Finance department at UT just went down the poop shoot.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 25, 2016, 03:10:15 pm
If by "build" an empire you mean he earned less with his inherited contacts and fortunes than the average investor...than sure. But for most people, starting with a huge head start and ending up with a lower return than Average Joe isn't impressive. If I started out in a 1000 meter race with a 500 meter head start over some random 10 year old, and won that race by 400 meters... no one should be wowed by my ability.

The only reason Trump is rich is because he started off rich. Analysis seems to support the fact that had he given the money to someone else to manage for him, even the most basic index fund, he'd be far better off.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2016/03/03/has-donald-trump-underperformed-in-the-real-estate-business/#14e2221e5506

Sadly, this is the state we present our country in. Currently, we are better off than most. That lead is so insurmountable that it is unlikely to fully yield in a lifetime. But with the right mismanagement, we can certainly perform below average.

Ostensibly, he’s turned it into a gain.  If, according to Forbes, he was worth $1 billion in 1988 and he’s now worth a reputed $2.9 billion to $10 billion (Drumpf’s own claim)  He’s still managed to at least triple his worth.  Sure, I’ve done far better than that on a percentage basis, but I had a whole lot less to start with in 1988 than where Trump was at.

Comparing Trump’s performance with main street investors is little more than a meme.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 25, 2016, 04:36:59 pm
Bears repeating....



http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a46981/sean-hannity-jon-stewart/




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 25, 2016, 04:40:20 pm
This is too much! Lets look at the factual statements in his speech that followed this very claim:

Claim: I will present the facts plainly and honestly.
Fact: Donald Trump has lied more than any presidential candidate in history. Fact checkers illustrate that less than 20% of his fact based statements are true.

Arbitrary and entirely subjective. Depends on which statements you look at entirely.

Claim: The number of police officers killed in the line of duty has risen by almost 50% compared to this point last year.
Fact: 8%


I already commented on how this is likely very accurate.

Claim:  58% of African-American youth are now not employed.
Fact: 38%

Was it true when Bern said it (51%)? Politifact seems to think so.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/13/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-real-unemployment-rate-african/

Claim: 2 million more Latinos are in poverty today than when President Obama took his oath of office less than eight years ago.
Fact: True! But spin. There were millions more Latinos than there were 8 years ago, the poverty rate declined. That's good news!

So technically not a lie. There were 6.8 million more from 09-14 according to Pew, with a poverty rate that technically did go do, but but really not all that much. That’s still adding a lot of people to the roles of all the benefits, which I think was the point of the comment.

Claim: Household incomes are down more than $4,000 since the year 2000. That's sixteen years ago.
Fact: True! But spin. The drop under Bush accounts for $2,500 of that, and Obamas first three years account for most of the rest.

I very much doubt he was trying to shield Bush, or he wouldn’t have gone back to 2000. Again, where is the “lie”?

Claim: In Libya, our consulate – the symbol of American prestige around the globe – was brought down in flames.
Fact: It wasn't a consulate, it was a "Temporary Mission Facility."

While I won’t vouch for the “symbol of American prestige” bit, the statement is a lie, however it is a continuation of a lie that the State Department (Hillary’s official statement) initiated in order to make it sound like we were there for diplomatic reasons. As most American’s probably don’t know the difference, this white lie is something I can live with considering most people just understand that Americans were there on behalf of their country (regardless of how nefarious it may have been).

Claim: That is why Hillary Clinton's message is that things will never change. Never ever.
Fact: Hillary has detailed plans to change immigration, to criminal justice, to higher education, to...

Are we really “fact checking” this one? It is a pep talk he is giving for pete sake.

Claim [Referring to Trumps opposition to Free Trade] In this cause, I am proud to have at my side the next Vice President of the United States: Governor Mike Pence of Indiana. . .
Fact: Pence is strongly in favor of free Trade.

You mean Trump is flexible with who he associates. The horror. Again, seriously…

Claim: I will do everything in my power to protect our LGBTQ citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology
Fact: The Log Cabin Republicans have called the current GOP platform the "most anti-LGBT platform" in GOP history, which seems to indicate the oppression and hatred isn't foreign

You are trying to link the beliefs of one to another. You can’t fact check opinion. Every president does not follow the party platform plank for plank.

Claim: there's no way to screen Syrian refugees in order to find out who they are or where they come from.
Fact: Refugees are screen by the host government, then by the UN, them by the State Department, then by the FBI, etc.

He’s not alone on this one. Not a lie, maybe not true in the end, but not a lie.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/17/senior-obama-officials-have-warned-of-challenges-in-screening-refugees-from-syria/

Claim: Remember, it was Bill Clinton who signed NAFTA, one of the worst economic deals ever made by our country. Or frankly, any other country. Never ever again.
Fact: True with spin, and false. Bill did sign NAFTA, after it was negotiated by GH Bush and approved by a Republican Congress. Also, Congressional studies show the agreement was a wash for jobs (neither producing the great boom or great bust each side predicted).

No, both houses of Congress were Democratically controlled. And yes, the Bush presidents were both openly Free Traders. Trump is a protectionist, so he is going to think NAFTA is bad. It’s arguable either way, as you said in reality, it probably had not that much effect either way. But again, no lie.

Claim:  Excessive regulation is costing our country as much as $2 trillion a year, and we will end it very, very quickly.
Fact: He rounded up the highest estimate, which was a "spit ball" not based on actual data. Likely hyperbole.  The statement that he will end "as much as $2T" in regulation is absolutely false.

Hyperbole or not, (I’ll give you that) is he just going to say “well I really can’t do much about it”. Come on. Let’s fact check some actual facts, not what someone says they will or won’t do in the future. I’m going to make a million dollars. Is that a lie since it’s probably pretty unlikely?

Claim: We are going to lift the restrictions on the production of American energy.
Fact: We produce more energy today than ever before, so much "drill baby drill" was done under Obama that the USA has turned the global energy market on its head and, some argue, collapsed the price of oil and gas.

Again, where is the lie? He can still remove more restrictions. Energy production is currently pretty restrictive, with mountains of paper work necessary before any dirt moves anywhere.

Claim: We will completely rebuild our depleted military
Fact: Adjusted for inflation, we spend as much or more (depending on what you count) on military than we did under Reagan or GW

We spend more on education than we ever have in history, yet it still needs a lot of work.

Claim: My just released 10 point plan has received tremendous veteran support.
Fact: Recent polls indicate a record number of military personnel will vote for a 3rd party candidate

Does this necessarily indicate that Trump does NOT have strong support. Say 3% was the biggest support for 3rd party in the past (just guessing), does 4% support mean that Trump doesn’t have good support? Military Times thinks he’s out-polling Clinton 2 to 1.

Claim: I, on the other hand, received the early and strong endorsement of the National Rifle Association and will protect the right of all Americans to keep their families safe.
Fact: Before running for office he was in favor of assault weapons bans, a mandatory waiting period, and universal background checks.

Clinton supported traditional marriage and the Iraq war. Is he lying? I don’t know, and neither do you.

Claim: My Dad, Fred Trump. . . it's because of him that I learned, from my youngest age, to respect the dignity of work and the dignity of working people.
Fact: Fred Trump was so hated by working people (particularly minorities) that Woody Guthrie wrote a song about him called "Old Man Trump."

Uh…. besides the fact that this doesn't disprove what he said...uh.... I think Obama is a jerk, does it make it so...come on...I guess if I was famous it might...no it wouldn't.

Claim: This was just prior to the signing of the Iran deal, which gave back to Iran $150 billion and gave us absolutely nothing – it will go down in history as one of the worst deals ever negotiated.
Fact: Repeatedly debunked talking point.

Considering the administration thought it would be $50 Billion, and Iran is saying $100 B, I don’t really trust anyone, including Trump. But I will give you this one even though there have been conflicting reports as to what is what, with virtually no way to verify anything except for what the administration says, which is going to be admittedly pro administration.

Claim: America is a nation of believers, dreamers, and strivers that is being led by a group of censors...
Fact: Trump has almost certainly sent more letters and sued more people attempting to censor people than any other politician in the history of America.

What does one have to do with the other. Being a hypocrite does not make you a liar necessarily.

Claim: My opponent asks her supporters to recite a three-word loyalty pledge. It reads: "I'm With Her". I choose to recite a different pledge.
Fact: They chant it at rallies, they aren't asked to recite it. The campaign slogan is technically "Stronger Together."

Seriously?
So out of all of that, you got him on one or two half truths.

Was this really what professional fact checkers came up with in that 50% mark? I'm just saying the ratio of lies has EVERYTHING to do with what is measured.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 25, 2016, 06:40:08 pm
Bears repeating....



http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a46981/sean-hannity-jon-stewart/




I'm sorry, Stewart and Colbert are just short Chris Matthews for a DNC circle jerk for their love fest for Obama and Hillary while drinking Hillary's bath water.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 26, 2016, 06:04:36 am
Saw this posted somewhere else, but it was too good:

Quote
The greatest threat to Bernie's candidacy isn't the machinations of the DNC to throw it for Hillary; it's that most of his supporters are leaving the arena to go catch Pikachu and Snorlax...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 26, 2016, 08:10:55 am
Arbitrary and entirely subjective. Depends on which statements you look at entirely.

Fair points on most of those. Kudos. I picked on one speech. The vast majority of his statements weren't fact based. I picked on that speech because he started it with a fabulous promises of never lying. I can do better! The best lies are when Trump denies facts about Trump. Even things he said on tape. I'm sticking with three categories: lies about Trump, Economics, and Conspiracy Theory Crazy.

Statements aren't cut and pasted, but typed to save time. So take the quote with a grain of salt, but the message is true. Damn dogs woke up at 5 AM and this is how I use my time?

Trump on Trump

Quote
I had a high draft number (and avoided Vietnam)

Actually, Trump was given four deferments. Draft numbers weren't even used at the time.

Quote
I wrote every word in the Art of the Deal.

Not according to the ghost author the publisher, or the editor.

Quote
I'm worth more than $10 bil dollar

Not according to any source other than Donald Trump. And even then, that number varies but the billions of dollars a day.

Quote
I never pretended to be my own PR director...

He previously admitted he did, but laughed it off as a joke.

Quote
No one has ever mentioned the size of my hands before

In 1988 the editor of Vanity Fair made a jab about Trump's hands, and wrote after the Rubior incident that to this day Trump still sends him photos with his hands circled.

Quote
I take zero dollars from anyone, I'm fully self funded...

Always has accepted donations (millions even in the primary), never has been fully self funded.

Quote
Trump winery is the largest on the east coast

It isn't even the largest in Virginia... let alone the east coast.

Quote
I never said Bush lied about WMDs

He did. It's recorded.

Quote
I don't know anything about David Duke...

He did and he does.

Quote
I won 66 counties out of 67 in Florida. No one has ever done that well.

Except Kerry, Bush, Gore, and Dole in their respective primaries.

Quote
I warned them what would happen if they went to Iraq

He called the invasion a "great thing for the free world." In nine interviews around that time, he never criticized the war.

Quote
They edited that tape, if they release the whole thing...

No matter the topic, whenever the whole tape is released its a lie.

Quote
Art of the deal is the #1 selling business book of all time

Maybe #5.

Quote
My magazine is great. I send it to all my clubs...

The magazine he was pretending to hold up went out of business 8 years ago.

Quote
I'm number one with Hispancis [after the Nevada Primary]

93% of Hispanics voted for someone not Trump.

Quote
Word is that Ford Motor, because of my constant badgering at packed events, is going to cancel their deal to go to Mexico and stay in U.S...

Except Ford announced that decision in 2011, years before Trump discussed the issue.

Quote
I never tried to bulid a casino in Florida (while dressing down Jeb)

He did. In a very publicly failed bid to work with the Seminoles.

Quote
I handpicked many of my University professors.

Court records reflect the guy who ran the school says otherwise.

Quote
I got paid $1mil to give a speech (the Learning Annex), actually more than that.

It was $400k.

Quote
I was more than $9 Billion in debt...

Claim was made in two separate Trump books. Trump later said it was a "mistake" and was "no where near" that figure after being called out on it.

Quote
I have never said the government should pay for everyone's healthcare

He did, on 60 minutes.

Quote
25% of black voters support me...

The highest poll is 12%.

Quote
John Oliver has tried to have me on four or five times...

The correct answer is zero.

My favorite...  (http://time.com/4108198/donald-trump-60-minutes-putin/)
Quote
I got to know Putin very well because we were both on 60 Minutes. We were stablemates. We did well that night.

Trump was interviewed from New York. Putin was in Moscow. The interviews were conducted separately and the men never spoke.




Or on economics, his strong point right?

Quote
The United States has zero tarrifs on Chinese goods...

We do.

Quote
Our GDP growth has never been below zero

It has, frequently.

Quote
The unemployment rate in Wisconsin is 20%.

Closer to 5.

Quote
Japan sends us cars, I've seen the boats coming in. You know what we send them, beef. And they don't want it. And wheat. They don't want it.

US exports to Japan: #1, Aircraft. #2, medical and technical equipment, #3 industrial machinery, #4 electronics, #5 pharmaceuticals.

Quote
Made in America is dead, you don't see it anymore because we don't make anything

Commerce Department says $4.4 Trillion in goods qualify for the label.

Quote
Our trade balance with China is $500 Billion a year

It's $350 Billion.

Generally, if he is citing an economic number of talking about economics. It isn't accurate.



Then there's plan old conspiracy theories and delusion...

Quote
The wives of the hijackers knew exactly what was happening and returned to Saudi to watch it...

None of the hijackers had wives or girlfriends.

Quote
Thousands of Muslims in NY cheered when the towers fell

No documentation of this anywhere.

Quote
An American General in the Philippines put down a Muslim uprising by killing all the Muslims prisoners with bullets dipped in pigs blood...

Not only no, but praising a massacre?

Quote
81% of white people that are murdered are murdered by black people...

84% of murdered white people are murdered by other white people (he was citing statistics from a White Supremacist group).

Quote
Obama: birther conspiracy, never went to Columbia, Muslim...

No comment needed.

Quote
Just the other day, 2 years old, 2½ years old, a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back, and a week later got a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic.

No comment needed.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 26, 2016, 08:22:17 am
Great! This is what I am talking about. The more stuff like your first post that people see, it only causes more and more people to support Trump because it appears you are attacking him with baseless accusations. I honestly haven't gone through everything you posted yet, however I am sure most if not all is true.

If only the alternative's record was the opposite, then we would have something.

(http://consciouslyenlightened.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/hillary-clinton-sniper-fire.jpg)



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on July 26, 2016, 08:42:19 am
You have to give Conservative Republicans credit where its due. They are not afraid to support mental illness. This morning I checked the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder on the Mayo Clinic website. www.bpdcentral.com.

Uncanny how well Trump does with the traits. Not surprising his strongest defenders and the party that put him there would not recognize them. Summarized:

     -Lacks empathy
     -Grandiose sense of self importance
     -Sense of entitlement
     -Interpersonally exploitative
     -Envious of others or believes others are envious of him
     -Requires excessive admiration
     -Show arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
     -Believes that he is special and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with, other special, high status people or institutions
     -Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or ideal love.

He scores! Nine out of nine.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 26, 2016, 10:14:37 am
You have to give Conservative Republicans credit where its due. They are not afraid to support mental illness. This morning I checked the criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder on the Mayo Clinic website. www.bpdcentral.com.

Uncanny how well Trump does with the traits. Not surprising his strongest defenders and the party that put him there would not recognize them. Summarized:

     -Lacks empathy
     -Grandiose sense of self importance
     -Sense of entitlement
     -Interpersonally exploitative
     -Envious of others or believes others are envious of him
     -Requires excessive admiration
     -Show arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
     -Believes that he is special and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with, other special, high status people or institutions
     -Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty or ideal love.

He scores! Nine out of nine.

The same has been said about Obama.  It’s likely true of any previous president or presidential candidate.  It would take a certain amount of narcissism to believe you should be POTUS.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 26, 2016, 10:27:50 am
The same has been said about Obama.  It’s likely true of any previous president or presidential candidate.  It would take a certain amount of narcissism to believe you should be POTUS.

The problem with Trump however is that he sounds good to his followers in 140 characters or less.  Doesn't really make a good statesman.  My opinion of course.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on July 26, 2016, 12:36:47 pm
The problem with Trump however is that he sounds good to his followers in 140 characters or less.  Doesn't really make a good statesman.  My opinion of course.

This puzzles and alarms me somewhat.  How does he sound good or serious to anyone, in any amount of words?

He has come off as an egotistical tool for the last three or four decades, ever since the national media started paying more attention to him in the 1980s. 

I thought he was hilarious early on in the run up to the primaries because he was the proverbial "turd in the punch bowl".  I never dreamed he’d actually end up with the nomination.  I figured everyone would fall for Rubio’s or Cruz’ schtick.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on July 26, 2016, 12:57:32 pm
The same has been said about Obama.  It’s likely true of any previous president or presidential candidate.  It would take a certain amount of narcissism to believe you should be POTUS.

I disagree, at least in the level of extremity of ego.   Yes, all Presidents (and anyone in a position of real power) must have a solid ego, and must feel that they should be in that position.  But there is a difference between having a healthy/large ego and being a Narcissist.   Obama does has a large ego, Trump shows real aspects of true Narcissism.  Ego good, Narcissism not.

**And no, I'm not an expert and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  But anyone can read up on Narcissism disorder if they want to.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: swake on July 26, 2016, 01:11:31 pm
This puzzles and alarms me somewhat.  How does he sound good or serious to anyone, in any amount of words?

He has come off as an egotistical tool for the last three or four decades, ever since the national media started paying more attention to him in the 1980s. 

I thought he was hilarious early on in the run up to the primaries because he was the proverbial "turd in the punch bowl".  I never dreamed he’d actually end up with the nomination.  I figured everyone would fall for Rubio’s or Cruz’ schtick.



I had Rubio pegged as the eventual winner from the start. He’s young, good looking, well-spoken and well educated. He comes off as sharp and serious about the issues and seems likeable and empathetic. He’s also Cuban and has a great family story. I don’t agree with his politics at all so I wouldn’t vote for him, but by all rational measures he’s exactly the kind of guy people on the right should love and easily nominate. He even comes from a major swing state, a state he lost to a racist cheese puff ball who probably can’t spell “Florida”. I just don’t get it. The Republican Party has lost its collective mind.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 26, 2016, 01:26:30 pm
I disagree, at least in the level of extremity of ego.   Yes, all Presidents (and anyone in a position of real power) must have a solid ego, and must feel that they should be in that position.  But there is a difference between having a healthy/large ego and being a Narcissist.   Obama does has a large ego, Trump shows real aspects of true Narcissism.  Ego good, Narcissism not.

**And no, I'm not an expert and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.  But anyone can read up on Narcissism disorder if they want to.

As I think was articulated by the email dump, the two parties are the same, one is just much more out in the open (about his narcissism that is).  ;)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 28, 2016, 01:07:17 pm
I'm just going to leave this here.

https://news.grabien.com/story-watch-obama-refer-himself-119-times-during-hillary-nominatin


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 28, 2016, 01:11:10 pm
I'm just going to leave this here.

https://news.grabien.com/story-watch-obama-refer-himself-119-times-during-hillary-nominatin


Notice how Trump never said "God" during his convention appearances?

I think he is actually Lucifer Morningstar!     

Just kidding people...!!

Or am I...???




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on July 28, 2016, 02:01:30 pm

Notice how Trump never said "God" during his convention appearances?

I think he is actually Lucifer Morningstar!     

Just kidding people...!!

Or am I...???




You laugh (I do too), but that's how this crap gets started.

Reporter: Well my source who I won't name (cause I made up) said Trump is in cahoots with Lucifer...

5 Twitter minutes later...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 28, 2016, 02:07:24 pm
You laugh (I do too), but that's how this crap gets started.

Reporter: Well my source who I won't name (cause I made up) said Trump is in cahoots with Lucifer...

5 Twitter minutes later...


Someone on NPR was talking about how he didn't say 'God'.  I didn't hear all of him, so can't say for sure - what I did hear, he didn't say it.

The rest is mine!!


And if anyone wants to use it, feel free - the more people believe Trump is Satan, the better for the country!  At least with Hillary, we got a chance in 4 years to get a better one, slim though that chance may be....




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on July 28, 2016, 02:08:26 pm
You laugh (I do too), but that's how this crap gets started.

Reporter: Well my source who I won't name (cause I made up) said Trump is in cahoots with Lucifer...

5 Twitter minutes later...

He plagiarized that line from Dr. Batsh...err...Dr. Carson.

Meanwhile....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/post-reporter-barred-patted-down-by-police-at-rally-for-trump-running-mate/2016/07/28/dffbd2c8-5465-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 30, 2016, 03:19:31 pm
Quote from: cannon_fodder on July 22, 2016, 07:43:54 am
Claim: The number of police officers killed in the line of duty has risen by almost 50% compared to this point last year.
Fact: 8%

I already commented on how this is likely very accurate.



The nonprofit Marshall Project, which focuses on criminal justice reform...notes the small sample size and that the number of officers killed remains lower than during the 1970s into this decade.

And as others note, the number of civilians killed by police is roughly 10 times higher in any given period.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20160729-the-false-equivalence-of-officers-shooting-vs.-officers-being-shot.ece


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 30, 2016, 08:02:03 pm
He plagiarized that line from Dr. Batsh...err...Dr. Carson.

Meanwhile....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/post-reporter-barred-patted-down-by-police-at-rally-for-trump-running-mate/2016/07/28/dffbd2c8-5465-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html


Did Carson call him Lucifer, too?  I missed that....shows that Carson has at least a little glimmer of a brain.





Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Breadburner on August 01, 2016, 07:53:24 pm
(http://www.cristyli.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Kahn-and-Obama.png)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ed W on August 01, 2016, 08:04:10 pm
(http://www.cristyli.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Kahn-and-Obama.png)

You're saying this is the same woman? Please cite your source.

(http://s3.r29static.com//bin/entry/646/x,80/1629457/image.jpg)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 01, 2016, 09:18:31 pm
You're saying this is the same woman? Please cite your source.

(http://s3.r29static.com//bin/entry/646/x,80/1629457/image.jpg)

Remember who you're responding to....I'm guessing crickets will follow.  That looks nothing like her.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 01, 2016, 09:20:49 pm
I think I hear Trump screaming now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EnsUeR2MyI


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 02, 2016, 11:47:59 am
538 is showing 66.1% for Clinton v 33.9% for Trump at the moment.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 02, 2016, 11:56:45 am
Even Lankford knows this is an unwinnable situation:

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/audio-senator-speaks-out-trumps-spar-slain-soldiers-family (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/audio-senator-speaks-out-trumps-spar-slain-soldiers-family)

Quote
Lankford says Trump should have just never gone down that road. He should simply ignored the comments made by Kahn at last week's DNC.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 02, 2016, 12:00:23 pm
Who is Lankford voting for? Probably straight party ticket. We need to know how each of our red state, redder city candidates are going to vote. Its like a mental test of sorts. Doubt any of the local media would dare ask though.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 02, 2016, 12:02:38 pm
Who is Lankford voting for? Probably straight party ticket. We need to know how each of our red state, redder city candidates are going to vote. Its like a mental test of sorts. Doubt any of the local media would dare ask though.

We're pretty special:

Trump’s Fundraising in Oklahoma Eclipses Clinton’s for First Time

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/trump-s-fundraising-oklahoma-eclipses-clinton-s-first-time (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/trump-s-fundraising-oklahoma-eclipses-clinton-s-first-time)

Quote
Donald Trump has a new reason to believe that deep-red Oklahoma will swing his way as the presidential campaign accelerates into the final months.

Federal Election Commission filings released recently show that June was the first time the Republican presidential nominee has raised more money in the state than his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton.

Until that month, the latest for which campaign finance data is available, Clinton had outpaced Trump in contributions from Oklahomans every month since April 2015. In fact, from January 2015 to January 2016, Clinton raised more money in the state than the five Republicans who remained in the race early this year. Trump came in second to Ted Cruz in the GOP primary.

In June, Trump reported raising $113,685 in individual contributions from Oklahoma donors, compared with Clinton's $93,408. Trump's previous monthly high was in May, when he received just under $14,000.

A Democrat hasn’t carried Oklahoma in the presidential election since Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

Clinton still far exceeds Trump in total amount raised in the state since January 2015, at $1.2 million compared to Trump's $159,000. Like Trump, June was Clinton’s largest fundraising haul in Oklahoma.  Clinton lost to Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary.

The fundraising numbers for July won’t be released until Aug. 20.

Trump has struggled to win over many prominent Republicans nationally since his campaign began to take off. In early May, Gov. Mary Fallin endorsed Trump, and Republican megadonors are expected to start bundling donations and pumping in funds themselves, if they haven’t already. Trump’s campaign and the Republican National Committee added more than 80 fundraising leaders in late June, including Larry Nichols, co-founder of Devon Energy Corp.

A May poll by Cole, Hargrave, Snodgrass and Associates showed Trump leading Clinton, 48 percent to 28 percent, in the state.

The last general-election forecast by Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEight group gave Clinton a one-in-250 chance of winning Oklahoma.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 02, 2016, 12:12:22 pm
538 is showing 66.1% for Clinton v 33.9% for Trump at the moment.


That is the polls only analysis, one of three analyses. If the election were held today it would be Clinton 83% to Trump 16%. Silver has always shown a 75-80% likelihood that Clinton will win no matter what the spread.

He looks like toast. Time for Oklahoma to double down. Maybe we could judge him mentally incompetent and send in Inhofe to replace him......


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 02, 2016, 12:32:55 pm
That is the polls only analysis, one of three analyses. If the election were held today it would be Clinton 83% to Trump 16%. Silver has always shown a 75-80% likelihood that Clinton will win no matter what the spread.

He looks like toast. Time for Oklahoma to double down. Maybe we could judge him mentally incompetent and send in Inhofe to replace him......

Maybe it could be settled with a duel between him and Inhofe.  Maybe...snowballs at twenty paces?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 02, 2016, 12:57:26 pm
Maybe it could be settled with a duel between him and Inhofe.  Maybe...snowballs at twenty paces?

Airplanes!  Make them crash airplanes together!


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 01:36:56 pm
Who is Lankford voting for? Probably straight party ticket. We need to know how each of our red state, redder city candidates are going to vote. Its like a mental test of sorts. Doubt any of the local media would dare ask though.


Who do you think any of our clowns are voting for...??   You already know.  

Trump is only holding up the mirror to the right wing reactionary extremists who have hijacked the Republican party.  The mirror is showing what they think and say in private already.  And are too cowardly to say out loud.  But now they have the example of just how far they can go and still gain support...you might see more "honesty" from some of them.  Be ready to be appalled.

I am surrounded by it at work.  Doesn't matter how obscene, disgusting, and despicable he becomes, the cheering just gets louder!  Literally.  It's Okrahoma....




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 02, 2016, 01:43:52 pm
Trump is way, way, ahead in Oklahoma.

http://newsok.com/article/5511779


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 02, 2016, 01:46:09 pm
Trump is way, way, ahead in Oklahoma.

http://newsok.com/article/5511779

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/oklahoma/ (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/oklahoma/)

99.6% Trump


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 02, 2016, 01:51:12 pm
I think the only state redder and more Trumpy is Wyoming.

Minnesota looking better every day. Yeah, its hell during winter but I can always come back to the low wage state during the blizzards.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 01:56:48 pm
I think the only state redder and more Trumpy is Wyoming.

Minnesota looking better every day. Yeah, its hell during winter but I can always come back to the low wage state during the blizzards.


Well, it really sucks don't it.  When winter and their mosquitoes are better choice than home state....



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 02, 2016, 02:07:58 pm
Stranger than truth. In every ranking of livability, economics, health, etc. they always come out in the top 10.

Today, Trump egged on a 10 year old who called Clinton a lying grumble, had the balls to accept some old guy's purple heart and asked a woman with a crying baby to leave his rally. And this is just Tuesday of the first week after the DNC convention.

Is Pence the real candidate? And Trump just bait?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 03:09:10 pm
Stranger than truth. In every ranking of livability, economics, health, etc. they always come out in the top 10.

Today, Trump egged on a 10 year old who called Clinton a lying grumble, had the balls to accept some old guy's purple heart and asked a woman with a crying baby to leave his rally. And this is just Tuesday of the first week after the DNC convention.

Is Pence the real candidate? And Trump just bait?


And the difference would be....??


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 02, 2016, 03:15:02 pm

Who do you think any of our clowns are voting for...??   You already know.  

Trump is only holding up the mirror to the right wing reactionary extremists who have hijacked the Republican party.  The mirror is showing what they think and say in private already.  And are too cowardly to say out loud.  But now they have the example of just how far they can go and still gain support...you might see more "honesty" from some of them.  Be ready to be appalled.

I am surrounded by it at work.  Doesn't matter how obscene, disgusting, and despicable he becomes, the cheering just gets louder!  Literally.  It's Okrahoma....




I have several like-minded individuals at my place of employment, luckily.  However, and Conan knows where I work, the CoB here is just as conservative as they come.  Given that our biggest industry is Oil/Gas, that's not so surprising.  But we have also ventured out into renewable energies like Wind, Solar and the like. so he can't blurt out too much publicly.

Makes the Holiday Party interesting though when he gets up and talks for 20 minutes.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 04:27:10 pm
I have several like-minded individuals at my place of employment, luckily.  However, and Conan knows where I work, the CoB here is just as conservative as they come.  Given that our biggest industry is Oil/Gas, that's not so surprising.  But we have also ventured out into renewable energies like Wind, Solar and the like. so he can't blurt out too much publicly.

Makes the Holiday Party interesting though when he gets up and talks for 20 minutes.


My company is big into sustainability, renewability, energy efficiency, and all the environmental catch phrases.  And other divisions, along with corporate, does seem to have a vested interest due to product mix.  My direct management string disses it all, especially one previous guy, who thankfully is gone.  Normal Okies - don't buy into anything that would be good for the city, state, nation, or themselves.  They just want to wallow in their current "Trumpiness".

Go figure....


Do they need any help from an extreme moderate?




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ed W on August 02, 2016, 05:13:22 pm
Stranger than truth. In every ranking of livability, economics, health, etc. they always come out in the top 10.

Today, Trump egged on a 10 year old who called Clinton a lying grumble, had the balls to accept some old guy's purple heart and asked a woman with a crying baby to leave his rally. And this is just Tuesday of the first week after the DNC convention.

Is Pence the real candidate? And Trump just bait?

In talks with Kasich as a possible VP, Trump's staffers said the governor would be in charge of policy while Trump set about "making America great again." In other words, someone else does the work while Trump preens on TV.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 02, 2016, 07:05:29 pm
(http://www.cristyli.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Kahn-and-Obama.png)

Oh BB, you so gullible.

http://www.snopes.com/ghazala-khans-hijab-was-a-political-stunt/

That was Mrs. Khan.  Just the wrong one.  SMFH.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CozhjdAVMAE11I0.jpg)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 07:55:03 pm
Bronze Star.   

Something Trump is not fit to polish. 



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 07:58:57 pm
Stranger than truth. In every ranking of livability, economics, health, etc. they always come out in the top 10.




Key word in all that.  Progressive.  


Nothing at all strange about it.   Rare in Oklahoma, but not exactly strange.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 02, 2016, 08:14:53 pm
There are 21 good questions that should have been asked or should have been answered before this guy became a candidate for anything political.

They were asked by this guy http://davidcayjohnston.com/

And he has the nerve to call Hillary a crook?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Red Arrow on August 02, 2016, 08:29:42 pm
Airplanes!  Make them crash airplanes together!

What a waste of airplanes that would be.  :(



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 02, 2016, 08:47:23 pm
There are 21 good questions that should have been asked or should have been answered before this guy became a candidate for anything political.

They were asked by this guy http://davidcayjohnston.com/

And he has the nerve to call Hillary a crook?

Another predictable election season hit job on a d-bag of a candidate?  Yawn.

How many do you think will be published on Hillary in the coming weeks?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 06:45:00 am
Of course you didn't Google his name. A Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist who asked these questions a year ago before the primaries. Did you read the questions? Or are you letting your hate for Hillary interfere with your usual insightful analysis?



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 03, 2016, 07:17:46 am
Another predictable election season hit job on a d-bag of a candidate?  Yawn.

How many do you think will be published on Hillary in the coming weeks?

Read Breitbart or Drudge.  There's your answer.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 03, 2016, 08:15:02 am
Of course you didn't Google his name. A Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist who asked these questions a year ago before the primaries. Did you read the questions? Or are you letting your hate for Hillary interfere with your usual insightful analysis?





I ran into a sewage situation like this in New Jersey - near Atlantic City about 1982.  Was offered a bribe to make the meters read a 'special' number, just like this.  (I didn't take it, unlike the participants in this story.)

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/071316/how-donald-trump-tried-cash-dumping-sewage-hudson-river.asp




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 03, 2016, 08:25:39 am
Of course you didn't Google his name. A Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist who asked these questions a year ago before the primaries. Did you read the questions? Or are you letting your hate for Hillary interfere with your usual insightful analysis?



I dislike Trump every bit as much, if not more, than I dislike HRC.  I thought he was funny at first and simply stirring the bucket in the GOP.  Then he started winning delegates.  I honestly did not think the electorate could be so stupid to fall for his rhetoric as being serious or as having any qualifications to lead the U.S.

First problem with your post is:  you didn’t link to anything showing 21 questions at least not that I could find.  Your link had more links to several reviews and cover shots.

Secondly, why didn’t he publish any of this a year ago?  Oh right, because there’s a motive in publishing it now.  Sorry, that smacks of a complete lack of journalistic ethics if it could have been published prior to the primaries.  I have no idea if that would have made a difference, it appears the majority of the electorate is voting based on emotion rather than intellect these days in order to end up with two such detestable candidates for POTUS.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 03, 2016, 08:35:57 am
I dislike Trump every bit as much, if not more, than I dislike HRC.  I thought he was funny at first and simply stirring the bucket in the GOP.  Then he started winning delegates.  I honestly did not think the electorate could be so stupid to fall for his rhetoric as being serious or as having any qualifications to lead the U.S.

First problem with your post is:  you didn’t link to anything showing 21 questions at least not that I could find.  Your link had more links to several reviews and cover shots.

Secondly, why didn’t he publish any of this a year ago?  Oh right, because there’s a motive in publishing it now.  Sorry, that smacks of a complete lack of journalistic ethics if it could have been published prior to the primaries.  I have no idea if that would have made a difference, it appears the majority of the electorate is voting based on emotion rather than intellect these days in order to end up with two such detestable candidates for POTUS.

Not trying to defend this guy here, but maybe he didn't publish because, like you, and like so many of us, he didn't take his candidacy seriously?

Just puttin' that out there.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 08:56:37 am
I dislike Trump every bit as much, if not more, than I dislike HRC.  I thought he was funny at first and simply stirring the bucket in the GOP.  Then he started winning delegates.  I honestly did not think the electorate could be so stupid to fall for his rhetoric as being serious or as having any qualifications to lead the U.S.

First problem with your post is:  you didn’t link to anything showing 21 questions at least not that I could find.  Your link had more links to several reviews and cover shots.

Secondly, why didn’t he publish any of this a year ago?  Oh right, because there’s a motive in publishing it now.  Sorry, that smacks of a complete lack of journalistic ethics if it could have been published prior to the primaries.  I have no idea if that would have made a difference, it appears the majority of the electorate is voting based on emotion rather than intellect these days in order to end up with two such detestable candidates for POTUS.

If your complaint is my ineptness in posting the wrong link, I can handle that. I'm overwhelmed at the moment. But its hard to question his ethics with his background of investigative journalistic excellence. Those 21 questions were available a year ago all over the net, prior to the primaries. Some of them I saw on PBS documentaries. More importantly, lots of New York businessmen and politicians are aware of these issues. They also thought he would go nowhere. When good men do nothing....

As far as the majority of the electorate voting on emotion, that's a pretty sweeping indictment. Trump supporters admire him because he says out loud what they think and are afraid to say. They abhor the elitism that education and wealth can breed, education and wealth they don't have. New Hillary supporters suddenly are aware of the true nature of Republican conservatism and its failure to keep a Trump from leading their party. That seems to me be an intellectual choice.

As usual, maybe some leftover republicanism in your blood, you attack the messenger rather than the messages. Give me some time. I'll find the links.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 09:05:12 am
They go back as far as July 10, 2015,
www.alternet.org/21-questions-donald-trump
ww.nationalmemo.com/21-questions-for-donald-trump
https://www.facebook.com/theharryshearer/posts/1182434358439459
www.democracynow.org/.../david_cay_johnston_21_questions_for

From the New Yorker, "On July 10th of last year, six days before Donald Trump confirmed rumors that he was entering the 2016 Presidential race, David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative reporter, published a piece at The National Memo that was headlined “21 Questions For Donald Trump.”


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 03, 2016, 11:36:28 am
ROMNEY!  ROMNEY!  ROMNEY!

Senior GOP Officials Exploring Options if Trump Drops Out

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senior-gop-officials-exploring-options-trump-drops/story?id=41089609 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senior-gop-officials-exploring-options-trump-drops/story?id=41089609 :D)

Quote
Republican officials are exploring how to handle a scenario that would be unthinkable in a normal election year: What would happen if the party's presidential nominee dropped out?

ABC News has learned that senior party officials are so frustrated — and confused — by Donald Trump's erratic behavior that they are exploring how to replace him on the ballot if he drops out.

So how would it work?

First, Trump would have to voluntarily exit the race. Officials say there is no mechanism for forcing him to withdraw his nomination. (Trump has not given any indications that he no longer wants to be his party's nominee.)

Then it would be up to the 168 members of the Republican National Committee to choose a successor, though the process is complicated.

One Republican legal expert has advised party officials that, for practical reasons, Trump would have to drop out by early September to give the party enough time to choose his replacement and get the next nominee's name on the ballot in enough states to win.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 11:53:23 am
Or, they could take someone currently enticing to moderate republicans, like say....Johnson? That gives them time to work on downticket races and blame the Donald for losing the presidency. If he should win, fine. Rebuild the party.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 03, 2016, 12:10:06 pm
ROMNEY!  ROMNEY!  ROMNEY!

Senior GOP Officials Exploring Options if Trump Drops Out

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senior-gop-officials-exploring-options-trump-drops/story?id=41089609 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senior-gop-officials-exploring-options-trump-drops/story?id=41089609 :D)


I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't his plan all along.  How I wish Mom AND my grandmother was here to see this.  Both of them would be smiling ear to ear.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on August 03, 2016, 12:26:37 pm
Or, they could take someone currently enticing to moderate republicans, like say....Johnson? That gives them time to work on downticket races and blame the Donald for losing the presidency. If he should win, fine. Rebuild the party.

I don't know how many ballots Johnson is already on, but could the party not just swing their financial weight behind him?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 12:33:04 pm
According to the rules, they could. The republican national committee could choose on their own a replacement (no mention of party affiliation) or reconvene the convention (not likely) and have the states re-vote. Lots of different permutations of how this could unfold.

The original players are still available and have viable organizations: Cruz, Kasich, Bush, et al.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on August 03, 2016, 01:29:07 pm
I don't know how many ballots Johnson is already on, but could the party not just swing their financial weight behind him?

Libertarian party is on the ballot in all 50 states.  First time ever.

I can't see the GOP doing it, but yeah, if the big players started backing Johnson (who was a Republican), I could see him winning the whole thing.  Once people thought he was "legitimate", it would be a really interesting race.   But Trump would keep his hard-core supporters and the question would be if Johnson could pull enough Dems over to beat Hillary.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 03, 2016, 01:58:39 pm
Fantasy talk, it’ll never happen.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on August 03, 2016, 02:08:41 pm
Fantasy talk, it’ll never happen

Agreed.  But wouldn't that just be amazing?  Fun to think about.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 03, 2016, 02:13:58 pm
If your complaint is my ineptness in posting the wrong link, I can handle that. I'm overwhelmed at the moment. But its hard to question his ethics with his background of investigative journalistic excellence. Those 21 questions were available a year ago all over the net, prior to the primaries. Some of them I saw on PBS documentaries. More importantly, lots of New York businessmen and politicians are aware of these issues. They also thought he would go nowhere. When good men do nothing....

As far as the majority of the electorate voting on emotion, that's a pretty sweeping indictment. Trump supporters admire him because he says out loud what they think and are afraid to say. They abhor the elitism that education and wealth can breed, education and wealth they don't have. New Hillary supporters suddenly are aware of the true nature of Republican conservatism and its failure to keep a Trump from leading their party. That seems to me be an intellectual choice.

As usual, maybe some leftover republicanism in your blood, you attack the messenger rather than the messages. Give me some time. I'll find the links.

No, nothing against you.  I simply find investigative books timed around elections as participating in electioneering- acting as a shill, if you will.  When I studied journalism, I apparently took the ethics of editorializing vs. presentation of facts too serious.  Too many writers and pundits blur those lines these days.  Delving into his 21 questions and the tone it is written in, he’s got an axe to grind with Trump.  Good for him.  Electioneering books are a weird OCD thing with me.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 03, 2016, 02:15:56 pm
Agreed.  But wouldn't that just be amazing?  Fun to think about.

It’s a perfect example of unsubstantiated chatter being blasted out as headlines.  The basis for much of this appears to have occurred prior to the convention, not since the convention, other than Obama calling for GOP leaders to drop their endorsements.

This whole election thus far is a flaming bag of sh!t.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 03, 2016, 02:35:47 pm

This whole election thus far is a flaming bag of sh!t.



Yeah, it is!  But you have never seen a more interesting one up close and personal like this one is!!  We haven't had elections like this since the early 1800's....!!

LBJ tried, I think, with the commercial showing Goldwater nuking the little girl, but even that was mundane compared to some of the old ones.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 02:38:52 pm
No, nothing against you.  I simply find investigative books timed around elections as participating in electioneering- acting as a shill, if you will.  When I studied journalism, I apparently took the ethics of editorializing vs. presentation of facts too serious.  Too many writers and pundits blur those lines these days.  Delving into his 21 questions and the tone it is written in, he’s got an axe to grind with Trump.  Good for him.  Electioneering books are a weird OCD thing with me.


It doesn't phase you that he wrote the questions before Trump announced candidacy over a year ago? Or his bonafides as an investigative journalist for Newsweek, New York Times, The New Yorker etc? You are hard to impress.

There are going to be tons of books written about this election by people with a lot less insight and knowledge of the subject than this guy. The difference is they will be written afterwards when it won't really matter. I can't blame him for his timing if its allegations are true or defensible.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ed W on August 03, 2016, 03:56:28 pm
According to the rules, they could. The republican national committee could choose on their own a replacement (no mention of party affiliation) or reconvene the convention (not likely) and have the states re-vote. Lots of different permutations of how this could unfold.

The original players are still available and have viable organizations: Cruz, Kasich, Bush, et al.

This is unlikely for several reasons. First, Trump's ego has swollen enormously. He would not stop voluntarily now and it would take a yuge lawsuit to do so. Oh, the spectacle would be entertaining as the RNC tried to remove their duly elected candidate and Trump would scream like a petulant three year old. Second, his base would go even more apeshot crazy than they are already. Think stupid people with guns. One of his key supporters has already talked about a "bloodbath" if Hillary wins. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that threat turned on the RNC.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Red Arrow on August 03, 2016, 04:22:45 pm
Fantasy talk, it’ll never happen.

As long as everyone is fantasizing, the Democrats could dump Hillary and put in someone I could vote for.   ;D



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: patric on August 03, 2016, 04:27:51 pm
This is unlikely for several reasons. First, Trump's ego has swollen enormously. He would not stop voluntarily now and it would take a yuge lawsuit to do so. Oh, the spectacle would be entertaining as the RNC tried to remove their duly elected candidate and Trump would scream like a petulant three year old. Second, his base would go even more apeshot crazy than they are already. Think stupid people with guns. One of his key supporters has already talked about a "bloodbath" if Hillary wins. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that threat turned on the RNC.

He might use the tactic he's used on his contractors:  "Ive decided Im not going to pay you so if you dont like it you can deal with my lawyers."


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 04:44:52 pm
This is unlikely for several reasons. First, Trump's ego has swollen enormously. He would not stop voluntarily now and it would take a yuge lawsuit to do so. Oh, the spectacle would be entertaining as the RNC tried to remove their duly elected candidate and Trump would scream like a petulant three year old. Second, his base would go even more apeshot crazy than they are already. Think stupid people with guns. One of his key supporters has already talked about a "bloodbath" if Hillary wins. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that threat turned on the RNC.

Well, I agree for the most part. Especially about the Trump Militia that led armed rally's outside the convention. His fantasy is that he is the leader of the party. Their only salvation. However, I am convinced he never intended to win, doesn't want to win and if he does, intends to farm the job out to Pence. He doesn't want it, but he isn't letting these pugs take it from him. Now its personal.

Given his fat ego and personality he may very likely again claim, "rigged!" and drop out. He secures his place in history, his militia raises hell and the Republican party hastily anoints a new anti-Hillary while the party slowly dies and reforms.

Remember what this prideful man claims is his greatest strength. Negotiation. This is his negotiation position to those leaders in his party who have dropped hints in the press that he isn't mentally stable, is undisciplined, unfit and they may intervene and possibly depose him.

Could happen. Who would have guessed he got this far....other than Gary Trudeau 30 years ago.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 04:47:56 pm
As long as everyone is fantasizing, the Democrats could dump Hillary and put in someone I could vote for.   ;D



Biden? Sanders? Warren? I don't see you going for any of the speakers at the convention, but maybe I've misjudged. :)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 03, 2016, 05:17:45 pm
It’s a perfect example of unsubstantiated chatter being blasted out as headlines.  The basis for much of this appears to have occurred prior to the convention, not since the convention, other than Obama calling for GOP leaders to drop their endorsements.

This whole election thus far is a flaming bag of sh!t.

And to think we said the 2012 election was pretty much the same.

That election was a walk in the park compared to this Trumpster Fire.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Red Arrow on August 03, 2016, 05:45:53 pm
Biden? Sanders? Warren? I don't see you going for any of the speakers at the convention, but maybe I've misjudged. :)

Are you saying those are the only three Democrats qualified to run for President of the USA? 

I did not watch any of the Democratic convention since I knew I would not vote for Hillary.  I only watched a few hours of the PBS talking heads trash everything happening at the Republican convention.  I figured the Democratic convention coverage by PBS would be a love fest that would make me barf.

I have joked about voting for Bernie so I could get free stuff but in reality I could not.
Warren?  Who bashed your brain in?
I've had enough of Biden.  He reminds me a bit of Dan Quayle but Biden didn't get near the quantity of bad press.  Being a Democrat has its advantages. I am sympathetic for the loss of his son.

How about someone like David Boren?  I voted for him as Senator.  I could maybe vote for him for POTUS.

There is bound to be some Democrat out there that I could find less undesirable than The Donald but I don't have any names other than Boren at the moment since I only rarely have voted for a Democrat.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 03, 2016, 06:39:09 pm
Boren works. We have found the intersection of our political beliefs.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 03, 2016, 09:27:40 pm
Boren works. We have found the intersection of our political beliefs.

Make that three.  I voted for Boren as well.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2016, 11:59:23 am
As long as everyone is fantasizing, the Democrats could dump Hillary and put in someone I could vote for.   ;D




Like McCain?  Or Romney?   They have become good  moderate Dems according to the RWRE....

Wouldn't be all bad...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2016, 12:09:55 pm


How about someone like David Boren?  I voted for him as Senator.  I could maybe vote for him for POTUS.

There is bound to be some Democrat out there that I could find less undesirable than The Donald but I don't have any names other than Boren at the moment since I only rarely have voted for a Democrat.



Jim Jones  (ex-Representative, OK).
Jim Webb  (maybe 2020 or 2024...)
Mark Warner





Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 04, 2016, 12:10:24 pm
We need to remember that the current republican candidate was chosen out of a large field of the very best the GOP could bring forward.

This pretty much means that the other choices could only be worse...right?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2016, 12:17:56 pm
We need to remember that the current republican candidate was chosen out of a large field of the very best the GOP could bring forward.

This pretty much means that the other choices could only be worse...right?


No they didn't choose out of the best...they intentionally chose a large field that was NOT the best the GOP could bring forward.  That's the "teabagger effect".  Kind of like an warped, evil, alternative universe "Carbonaro effect"....    My apologies to Michael Carbonaro....



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2016, 12:19:36 pm
Boren works. We have found the intersection of our political beliefs.


Boren would be good for this.

But remember when he started to run before?   Someone took him aside and told him to "sit down and shut up".  So he came home to become OU President.... Huge loss for the country - huge gain for OU.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2016, 02:14:11 pm
Saw this and agree about 10,000 %.


Today's history note. The first POW of the Vietnam era and the longest held POW in our history! Rather than disparaging these people, I cannot understand why they don't ALL qualify for the Medal of Honor !!?? Every one. Every war.

It's beyond shameful that anyone would disparage them, let alone someone who dodged the draft and then sets himself up as "qualified" to be President !! It's despicable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_James_Thompson






Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 04, 2016, 03:26:20 pm
We need to remember that the current republican candidate was chosen out of a large field of the very best the GOP could bring forward.

This pretty much means that the other choices could only be worse...right?

It wasn’t a field.  It was a clown car.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 04, 2016, 04:36:06 pm
It wasn’t a field.  It was a clown car.

^^^^This^^^^  A thousand times.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 05, 2016, 11:25:41 am
It wasn’t a field.  It was a clown car.

Right on...a clown car full of the very best the GOP could bring forward...

Trump was chosen to lead the GOP.  That's it.  I have no idea what that says about the republican party.  The R on my ID card I now am obligated to present means jack squat to me.

I'm hopeful this will result in a massive dumping of the closed-minded ambi-sexual walnuts that were swept into congress and state governments in 2012.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on August 05, 2016, 01:06:09 pm
Are you saying those are the only three Democrats qualified to run for President of the USA? 

I did not watch any of the Democratic convention since I knew I would not vote for Hillary.  I only watched a few hours of the PBS talking heads trash everything happening at the Republican convention.  I figured the Democratic convention coverage by PBS would be a love fest that would make me barf.

I have joked about voting for Bernie so I could get free stuff but in reality I could not.
Warren?  Who bashed your brain in?
I've had enough of Biden.  He reminds me a bit of Dan Quayle but Biden didn't get near the quantity of bad press.  Being a Democrat has its advantages. I am sympathetic for the loss of his son.

How about someone like David Boren?  I voted for him as Senator.  I could maybe vote for him for POTUS.

There is bound to be some Democrat out there that I could find less undesirable than The Donald but I don't have any names other than Boren at the moment since I only rarely have voted for a Democrat.

How can you blame them. They tried McCain, an honorable man and a bit of a centrist if there ever was one. They vilified him.

Romney next. Also a decent human being, and in my opinion too liberal for me. They vilified him.

See the trend.

Trump is the nearly the exact opposite of what they did before. You can't say they are insane.

Except for his extreme protectionist economy views that is.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: rebound on August 05, 2016, 01:47:57 pm
How can you blame them. They tried McCain, an honorable man and a bit of a centrist if there ever was one. They vilified him.

Romney next. Also a decent human being, and in my opinion too liberal for me. They vilified him.

See the trend.

Trump is the nearly the exact opposite of what they did before. You can't say they are insane.

Except for his extreme protectionist economy views that is.

I'll nit pick this a bit.   

Regarding McCain.  "They" didn't vilify him, they vilified Palin, and rightfully so.   In that election,  John McCain was in an excellent position to win.  But instead of letting him pick his own running mate, which would probably have been Lieberman, Sarah Palin was foisted upon him by the right wing of the party.   If McCain picks Lieberman, a moderate/Liberal and pro-choice, he would have almost certainly won.  (Hindsight, I know, but...)   Palin was/is a complete bust and drug McCain down with her.

Romney was/is a good guy.  But the overall negativity created by the GOP leadership during Obama's first term cast a pall over him, and he was also again forced by the hard-right of the party to take positions counter to what (most likely) he preferred.    Case in point was Obamacare, which was modeled off of Romney's own plan.  But he was mind-bendingly forced to argue against it, even though he had seen how successful it was.

The problem with Romney and McCain wasn't Romney and McCain.  They were both good candidates and centrist enough, and if left to their own devices and inclinations possibly could have won.  (McCain for sure,  Romney a little less so.)  It was the right-wing of the GOP that forced both of them into contrived positions that caused them to lose.   And instead of recognizing that for what it was, the hard-right faction said "this time let us nominate somebody that we really like". And we get Trump.

Let's see how that works out for them.
 


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 05, 2016, 01:59:04 pm

Let's see how that works out for them.
 

WELL...

Polls only forecast:

Chance of winning

FiveThirtyEight

Hillary Clinton
81.5%
Donald Trump
18.4%

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=2016-electionhttp://

Workin' great


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Conan71 on August 05, 2016, 02:20:24 pm
I'll nit pick this a bit.   

Regarding McCain.  "They" didn't vilify him, they vilified Palin, and rightfully so.   In that election,  John McCain was in an excellent position to win.  But instead of letting him pick his own running mate, which would probably have been Lieberman, Sarah Palin was foisted upon him by the right wing of the party.   If McCain picks Lieberman, a moderate/Liberal and pro-choice, he would have almost certainly won.  (Hindsight, I know, but...)   Palin was/is a complete bust and drug McCain down with her.

Romney was/is a good guy.  But the overall negativity created by the GOP leadership during Obama's first term cast a pall over him, and he was also again forced by the hard-right of the party to take positions counter to what (most likely) he preferred.    Case in point was Obamacare, which was modeled off of Romney's own plan.  But he was mind-bendingly forced to argue against it, even though he had seen how successful it was.

The problem with Romney and McCain wasn't Romney and McCain.  They were both good candidates and centrist enough, and if left to their own devices and inclinations possibly could have won.  (McCain for sure,  Romney a little less so.)  It was the right-wing of the GOP that forced both of them into contrived positions that caused them to lose.   And instead of recognizing that for what it was, the hard-right faction said "this time let us nominate somebody that we really like". And we get Trump.

Let's see how that works out for them.
 

Romney also was a pussy.  He just would not fight back and refute the character attacks on himself and his professional life.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: AquaMan on August 05, 2016, 02:21:46 pm
I'll nit pick this a bit.  

Regarding McCain.  "They" didn't vilify him, they vilified Palin, and rightfully so.   In that election,  John McCain was in an excellent position to win.  But instead of letting him pick his own running mate, which would probably have been Lieberman, Sarah Palin was foisted upon him by the right wing of the party.   If McCain picks Lieberman, a moderate/Liberal and pro-choice, he would have almost certainly won.  (Hindsight, I know, but...)   Palin was/is a complete bust and drug McCain down with her.

Romney was/is a good guy.  But the overall negativity created by the GOP leadership during Obama's first term cast a pall over him, and he was also again forced by the hard-right of the party to take positions counter to what (most likely) he preferred.    Case in point was Obamacare, which was modeled off of Romney's own plan.  But he was mind-bendingly forced to argue against it, even though he had seen how successful it was.

The problem with Romney and McCain wasn't Romney and McCain.  They were both good candidates and centrist enough, and if left to their own devices and inclinations possibly could have won.  (McCain for sure,  Romney a little less so.)  It was the right-wing of the GOP that forced both of them into contrived positions that caused them to lose.   And instead of recognizing that for what it was, the hard-right faction said "this time let us nominate somebody that we really like". And we get Trump.

Let's see how that works out for them.
 

Agreed. "They" is such a sinister word, but in this case you identified the correct "they". McCain couldn't overcome the disastrous Palin. Romney had done quite well in his first debate and his poll numbers were within reach but it was always hard for him to argue against Obamacare and then, that damaging video surfaced.

Has anyone seen the economic adviser group Trump has chosen?


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on August 05, 2016, 03:40:10 pm

Has anyone seen the economic adviser group Trump has chosen?


The "Steves" are represented


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ed W on August 05, 2016, 04:03:24 pm
The far right reliably shows up to vote in Republican primaries, and that gives them considerable power. But after Trump loses this election, even if it's a disastrous landslide, I fully expect to hear that he wasn't a true believer in tea party issues. He wasn't a real conservative. And that will set the stage for Ted Cruz or a similarly reptilian ideologue to gain far more traction in the next presidential contest.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on August 05, 2016, 04:15:49 pm
The "Steves" are represented

https://youtu.be/M_FBR7_8XIw?t=23s


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 05, 2016, 06:11:32 pm
Romney also was a pussy.  He just would not fight back and refute the character attacks on himself and his professional life.


He wouldn't stoop to the bottom of the muck and mire to be with the teabaggers, and that cost him.   Just like Kerry wouldn't fight back against the muck and mire of the Swift Boaters.  Both groups ARE the lowest common denominator.  What is astounding is how many are actually buying into this.   The level of ignorance is mind blowing.



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Breadburner on November 13, 2016, 09:20:12 am
Looks like the Dems are the real smile show they have gotten their asses kicked across the board Trump was the final nail being hammered in....... ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Ed W on November 13, 2016, 09:56:56 am
Looks like the Dems are the real smile show they have gotten their asses kicked across the board Trump was the final nail being hammered in....... ;D ;D ;D

Not really. Clinton beat Trump in the popular vote, and although that didn't equate to victory in the Electoral College, it shows that Democratic turnout is still very good. Trump's supporters, many of them disaffected blue collar workers, are about to find out that those rust belt jobs he promised are never coming back. They've been betrayed and used. As usual, evangelicals chose political power in pursuit of their social agenda rather than adherence to their much-vaunted morals, and already we're seeing a rift developing. The only ones who will gain substantially are Wall Street types. Trump did not betray his class.

But that's not meant to imply the Democrats are blameless. They too used blue collar workers as pawns in previous elections, paying little more than lip service to union rights and workers genuine needs. They can return as Democratic voters IF the party can show concrete, demonstrable changes that support workers.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Hoss on November 13, 2016, 10:13:36 am
Not really. Clinton beat Trump in the popular vote, and although that didn't equate to victory in the Electoral College, it shows that Democratic turnout is still very good. Trump's supporters, many of them disaffected blue collar workers, are about to find out that those rust belt jobs he promised are never coming back. They've been betrayed and used. As usual, evangelicals chose political power in pursuit of their social agenda rather than adherence to their much-vaunted morals, and already we're seeing a rift developing. The only ones who will gain substantially are Wall Street types. Trump did not betray his class.

But that's not meant to imply the Democrats are blameless. They too used blue collar workers as pawns in previous elections, paying little more than lip service to union rights and workers genuine needs. They can return as Democratic voters IF the party can show concrete, demonstrable changes that support workers.

Look who you're responding to Ed.  Likely in one ear/out the other.

And the Dem turnout wasn't good at all.  Not like it should have been.  It always takes an election like this for a post-mortem to be done.  Hopefully the Dems will listen to it moreso than the Republicans did last time...you know, "stop being the party of stupid" and all that?  Stop alienating minorities?  While they came out ahead this election, from all accounts they didn't do alot to help with that.

My hope, is that Trump's claim of 'being the least racist person I know' is true and his rhetoric during the campaign was just that.  I have my doubts, but am willing to give him the benefit of it (unlike Republican supporters who for the last eight years have done everything they could to delegitimize the legally elected President).

And for those who say Trump has a mandate?  He may have the two houses of Congress (although not the Senate if you consider right now it's not a filibuster-proof entity) but winning the EC and losing the PV doesn't give him a mandate.  I hope those Republicans who distanced themselves from him are just as critical of what he wants as they should be.

Time for Dems to stop being pussies.  I have a feeling that may finally happen (although I'm skeptical).  If there's one thing the Republicans are good at, it's inciting interest within the base.  The DNC needs an overhaul.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 14, 2016, 05:46:10 pm
Looks like the Dems are the real smile show they have gotten their asses kicked across the board Trump was the final nail being hammered in....... ;D ;D ;D


Wasn't exactly a mandate - Trump is about a million less in popular vote than Clinton.  Probably gonna be a lot bigger difference before it's over - just not in "swing states".


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: swake on November 14, 2016, 07:23:58 pm
Looks like the Dems are the real smile show they have gotten their asses kicked across the board Trump was the final nail being hammered in....... ;D ;D ;D

Your reputation on this site is well earned


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: davideinstein on November 14, 2016, 11:33:37 pm
Looks like the Dems are the real smile show they have gotten their asses kicked across the board Trump was the final nail being hammered in....... ;D ;D ;D

Hillary is going to win by almost 2M in the popular vote. Enjoy demographic change after the 2020 census...


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: erfalf on November 15, 2016, 06:21:11 am
Hillary is going to win by almost 2M in the popular vote. Enjoy demographic change after the 2020 census...

Wait, I thought Trump was going to "take care of that".

 ::)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: patric on December 12, 2018, 11:47:01 pm


Sen. Inhofe reportedly bought defense stock days after pushing for Pentagon spending


https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-james-inhofe-bought-defense-stock-days-after-pushing-for-record-pentagon-spendingthen-dumped-it-when-asked-about-it




Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: BKDotCom on December 13, 2018, 09:54:05 am

Sen. Inhofe reportedly bought defense stock days after pushing for Pentagon spending


https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-james-inhofe-bought-defense-stock-days-after-pushing-for-record-pentagon-spendingthen-dumped-it-when-asked-about-it


shockedn't


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: patric on December 14, 2018, 10:23:58 am
shockedn't


Anti-abortion Republicans force Health and Human Services to shut down HIV research

The move follows the unsettling establishment earlier this year of a new department within HHS, the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division, that was created to handle complaints from healthcare providers who did not wish to treat transgender people or perform abortions.
“This effectively stops all of our research to discover a cure for HIV”


https://www.salon.com/2018/12/14/health-and-human-services-department-shuts-down-hiv-research_partner/



Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: guido911 on December 14, 2018, 12:09:20 pm
(http://ace.mu.nu/archives/hillary%20-%20lost%20to%20trump.jpg)


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: Townsend on December 14, 2018, 12:21:57 pm


Turning on the news and seeing the crazy that is the executive branch is not reassuring. 


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: guido911 on December 14, 2018, 03:30:39 pm
Turning on the news and seeing the crazy that is the executive branch is not reassuring. 

I wish Trump would just shut up sometimes.


Title: Re: RNC - what a s**t show
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 14, 2018, 08:20:18 pm
I wish Trump would just shut up sometimes.


The real question is that when it gets there, will Trump be tried as an adult...?