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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: swake on February 24, 2016, 09:14:25 am



Title: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on February 24, 2016, 09:14:25 am
Pause a tax break that saves the average tax payer about $50 a year? Not doable to fix our budget hole. Not worth it.

I know! Let’s kick 111,000 poor parents off Medicare! And let’s violate Federal Law while we are at it. That’s the ticket. It’s the moral choice.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/bill-booting-oklahomans-from-medicaid-advances-in-house/article_62f0dbf1-163b-5323-bab8-c898d30c5633.html
Quote
A bill to cut 111,000 Oklahomans from Medicaid advanced from the House of Representatives’ full Appropriations and Budget Committee late Tuesday despite agreement all around that the measure would violate federal law.
Also advancing was a bill requiring public high schools to incorporate an anti-abortion message teaching the “humanity of the unborn.”
 
House Bill 2665 by Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove, would instruct the Oklahoma Health Care Authority to seek a federal waiver allowing the state to exclude from Medicaid all able-bodied adults under 65 with dependents.
According to statements during the committee meeting and a Feb. 8 subcommittee meeting, those affected would be adults with at least one dependent child and annual household income under $9,500. Many and perhaps most would be single parents with pre-school children.
Cox acknowledged the federal waiver is unlikely to be granted, but said the bill would “send a message to the federal government about the situation here in Oklahoma.”
With the state facing a $1.3 billion general revenue reduction in the coming fiscal year, Cox said his bill was the best of many unpalatable options.
The alternative, he said, would be reductions in aid to the elderly and children.
House Minority Leader Scott Inman, D-Del City, and Rep. Mike Brown, D-Tahlequah, argued that the bill demonstrated the state’s misplaced priorities.
Brown referred to business incentives given the Oklahoma City Thunder pro basketball team, while Inman said the $111 million saved in state revenue would cost twice that in federal matching funds and take more than $300 million out of the “state’s health care economy.”
The bill passed 14-7, with Republicans John Bennett of Sallisaw and Pam Peterson of Tulsa joining the five committee Democrats in opposition.
House Bill 2797 by Rep. Ann Coody, R-Lawton, would require public high schools to teach the “humanity of unborn” and that abortion is murder.
The bill would have little immediate affect because of the state’s budget situation, but Coody amended it to assure that any money that does reach the program cannot be used “for instruction on human sexuality.”
A retired educator, Coody turned aside questions about why her bill not only doesn’t include a sex education component but now specifically excludes it.
“We tried that,” she said. “It didn’t work. It teaches methods, mainly, and condones sexuality. … All that teaches is how to have intercourse.”
The bill passed 17-2, with term-limited Democrats Jeannie McDaniel of Tulsa and Wade Rousselot of Wagoner in opposition.





Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: AquaMan on February 24, 2016, 09:55:54 am
"Cox acknowledged the federal waiver is unlikely to be granted, but said the bill would “send a message to the federal government about the situation here in Oklahoma.”

They've sent the federal government plenty of messages in the last decade. I think the feds may understand quite well the "situation" in Oklahoma.

And as a youth who still remembers being young, I assure the former educator that kids don't need much help in figuring out how intercourse works.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2016, 10:13:11 am
I think I could come up with a descriptor stronger than “scumbag”.

This is precisely the kind backwards-donkey thinking that forced my hand to leave the Oklahoma GOP and become IND.  It’s also the same kind of thinking which has MC and I looking for another state to retire to.  Low taxes is nice in concept, but living in a place where education, the health and welfare of the underclass, and maintaining public infrastructure is the least of our priorities is not the kind of place we care to live.

Yeah, let’s dance around this budget hole while we try and roll back daylight savings time and add 15th century mentality to our public school curricula.

SMH


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 24, 2016, 10:31:42 am
I think I could come up with a descriptor stronger than “scumbag”.

This is precisely the kind backwards-donkey thinking that forced my hand to leave the Oklahoma GOP and become IND.  It’s also the same kind of thinking which has MC and I looking for another state to retire to.  Low taxes is nice in concept, but living in a place where education, the health and welfare of the underclass, and maintaining public infrastructure is the least of our priorities is not the kind of place we care to live.

Yeah, let’s dance around this budget hole while we try and roll back daylight savings time and add 15th century mentality to our public school curricula.

SMH


Let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools even though I personally don’t have a kid in school.  It’s because I don’t like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people. 



Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on February 24, 2016, 10:41:21 am
I think I could come up with a descriptor stronger than “scumbag”.

This is precisely the kind backwards-donkey thinking that forced my hand to leave the Oklahoma GOP and become IND.  It’s also the same kind of thinking which has MC and I looking for another state to retire to.  Low taxes is nice in concept, but living in a place where education, the health and welfare of the underclass, and maintaining public infrastructure is the least of our priorities is not the kind of place we care to live.

Yeah, let’s dance around this budget hole while we try and roll back daylight savings time and add 15th century mentality to our public school curricula.

SMH

Scumbag is the strongest I could come up with and not hit the content filter. I would like to say something stronger.

I'm back to Tulsa and the eastern part of this state needs to succeed. Oklahoma Sucks.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2016, 10:49:24 am

House Bill 2665 by Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove, would instruct the Oklahoma Health Care Authority to seek a federal waiver allowing the state to exclude from Medicaid all able-bodied adults under 65 with dependents.

According to statements during the committee meeting and a Feb. 8 subcommittee meeting, those affected would be adults with at least one dependent child and annual household income under $9,500. Many and perhaps most would be single parents with pre-school children.


I thought that was what the Obamacare was supposed to cover....   Aren't the poor supposed to get all sorts of health insurance credits?


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on February 24, 2016, 11:14:38 am
I thought that was what the Obamacare was supposed to cover....   Aren't the poor supposed to get all sorts of health insurance credits?

Don't be idiotic. Medicare is and always has been for the poor. Obamacare expanded Medicare to include the poorest of the working poor. Oklahoma lovingly declined that expansion. 

Obamacare then set up exchanges for everyone else not covered by insurance to be able to pool together to buy insurance at decent rates with some help with paying for people with smaller incomes.

The state is now planning to cut out Medicare for the truly poor which Obamacare never addressed because at the time they were covered by Medicare. But Oklahoma is moving forward with a bold new plan now. No insurance for the poor at all! Screw the poors.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: cynical on February 24, 2016, 12:06:44 pm
You do mean "Medicaid" rather than "Medicare," don't you?

Don't be idiotic. Medicare is and always has been for the poor. Obamacare expanded Medicare to include the poorest of the working poor. Oklahoma lovingly declined that expansion. 

Obamacare then set up exchanges for everyone else not covered by insurance to be able to pool together to buy insurance at decent rates with some help with paying for people with smaller incomes.

The state is now planning to cut out Medicare for the truly poor which Obamacare never addressed because at the time they were covered by Medicare. But Oklahoma is moving forward with a bold new plan now. No insurance for the poor at all! Screw the poors.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on February 24, 2016, 12:25:41 pm
You do mean "Medicaid" rather than "Medicare," don't you?


Sorry, yes.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 25, 2016, 09:49:48 am
Parks and tourism has seen a 50% reduction in budget since 2009 (keep in mind, Oklahoma was booming during that period).

The arts budget has been slashed.

Per Pupil spending on education is down in the same period.

Our infrastructure grade is still "deficient."

And our solution was to cut taxes on anyone making above average, propose raising taxes on everyone (more sales tax), and take away subsidies for poor people.

What this says is that our current leadership feels the problems facing our state is too much spending on public infrastructure, too much spending on quality of life, the wealthiest people need more help from government, the poorest people need to pay more in taxes, and that our education system is over funded. If that isn't delusional, I don't know what is.

The good news is that the medicaid proposal is illegal and a waiver will be denied. We've already donated billions in medical dollars to other states, at least Uncle Sam won't let us make this stupid decision.  Of course, we will find a way to spend millions trying to make it clear that deteriorating the health of the poorest people, having a sickly workforce, and removing money from our healthcare industry is a priority.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Townsend on February 25, 2016, 12:05:40 pm
  Of course, we will find a way to spend millions trying to make it clear that deteriorating the health of the poorest people, having a sickly workforce, and removing money from our healthcare industry is a priority.

"We gonna sue them F'ers"

(http://freedomoutpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/scott-pruitt.jpg)


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: TheArtist on February 25, 2016, 12:48:16 pm
I am all for the state cutting taxes and spending.... especially if they then let the cities and the counties have the flexibility to tax and spend the way the state does. 

Change the state constitution if need be.  I am all for smaller state government.   Why should Tulsa pay for paper shuffling jobs in OKC?  Why should Tulsa send our taxes to OKC, then we have to turn around and beg for a portion of it back?

Lets turn this perceived lemon of "the state wanting to cut state taxes and not wanting bureaucrats in far away places telling the people of Oklahoma what to do" into lemonade and get them to do just that here at home by giving us the power to do with our tax money as we see fit. 


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on February 25, 2016, 01:55:49 pm
I am all for the state cutting taxes and spending.... especially if they then let the cities and the counties have the flexibility to tax and spend the way the state does.  

Change the state constitution if need be.  I am all for smaller state government.   Why should Tulsa pay for paper shuffling jobs in OKC?  Why should Tulsa send our taxes to OKC, then we have to turn around and beg for a portion of it back?

Lets turn this perceived lemon of "the state wanting to cut state taxes and not wanting bureaucrats in far away places telling the people of Oklahoma what to do" into lemonade and get them to do just that here at home by giving us the power to do with our tax money as we see fit.  

This isn't cutting "paper shufflers in OKC" anymore, these cut are going to be real and very deep. Call you representatives.

Tulsa Public Schools considers four-day school week, eliminating buses to meet next year's budget cuts

Tulsa Public Schools considers four-day school week, eliminating buses to meet next year's budget cuts - Tulsa World: Education (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/tulsa-public-schools-considers-four-day-school-week-eliminating-buses/article_e6b49f9c-de8a-59bf-a7f6-8c6cc778f73c.html)
Quote
Tulsa Public Schools is considering shortening the school week to four days and eliminating transportation for everyone except special education students as possible scenarios to deal with anticipated budget cuts next year.
Tulsa Public Schools Superintendent Deborah Gist sent employees an email Wednesday evening laying out these and other options as possible cuts to the district’s budget next year.
In her email, obtained by the Tulsa World late Wednesday night, Gist says the cuts for next school year likely will be between $7 million and $20 million.
“Therefore and unfortunately, it is unlikely that we can protect our students and teachers from feeling the effects directly next year,” she said in the email, sent out around 7 p.m.
Gist shared a few scenarios for next year, emphasizing that they were simply to show the magnitude of the situation.
“These are NOT decisions or even options at this point,” she wrote. “Rather, I’m trying to give you a sense of what it takes to put together a package of reductions that meet what we may have before us.”
Below are some of the scenarios Gist listed:
Central office: A 5 percent reduction in administrative staffing would yield a savings of about $820,000. A 15 percent reduction could net a savings of about $2.4 million.
“These reductions would result in fewer, or perhaps in some cases slower, essential services provided to our schools, students, teachers, and families,” Gist said.
Shorter school week: Gist said she and her team are exploring a four-day school week as a possible scenario. However, she said this scenario would save only $1.4 million.
“Of course, this would result in our students having an additional day each week away from school,” she wrote. “It also means that parents would need to make accommodations for a full day of child-care, which could be extremely challenging for them. It would also mean that site and classroom schedules would need comprehensive revisions.”
Program reductions: Gist said the district could also consider reducing or eliminating programs such as athletics and fine arts.
“Even a total elimination of athletics would only provide $2.3 million,” she said. “Elimination of fine arts would mean $8.1 million in savings.”
But Gist said that “these are unfathomable considerations.”
Increased class sizes: Gist called this a “terrible option to consider” but explained that an increase of just one student across the board could provide $2.6 million in savings. Then she added, “In some cases, we might have to consider larger increases” and said an increase of four students would create $9.6 million in savings.
Transportation: Gist said Tulsa Public Schools “may have to consider reducing or eliminating transportation,” noting that limiting transportation services to only special education students, for whom transportation is required, would net the district about $8 million per year.
Campus security: The superintendent said that “arguably, the need for campus security has never been higher” but that the elimination of the campus police and security services would save $3.5 million.
Gist's letter

From: "Gist, Deborah" <gistde@tulsaschools.org>
Date: February 24, 2016 at 6:58:19 PM CST
To: TPS Employees
Subject: TPS team member update on the state revenue shortfall
Hi team,
I write to you after spending much of the day in our schools. Once again, I am impressed, inspired, excited and grateful. That makes it exponentially harder for me to share the news I'm bringing about our financial situation. I wanted to reach out to you directly, via this email and video, so that you hear this news from me rather than through the media. I know that doesn't make the overall problem any better, but I thought that was important.
Over the last few weeks, I've worked with the TPS district leadership team to carefully review the potential impact of state budget reductions and to determine our best--or perhaps I should say "least bad"--next steps. We have two budgets to consider. First, we need to manage the mid-year state budget cuts for our current school year. We have a plan for that and are working with the board. These cuts, which should not be directly felt by those of you in our schools, will be reflected in a budget amendment to go before the Board of Education in March.
Second, we have a projected state deficit and expected cuts for next year, the 2016-2017 school year. These will be much more significant based on our state's revenue shortfall. A 15.9% reduction is expected statewide although we don't know for sure how state leaders will manage it. We are doing everything we can to minimize the impact these reductions will have for our students, classrooms, and teachers. Right now, we are anticipating that the 2016-2017 district budget cuts will be anywhere between $7 million and $20 million. Therefore and unfortunately, it is unlikely that we can protect our students and teachers from feeling the effects directly next year.
We are now faced with making extremely difficult decisions about the future of our district. In order to help illustrate the magnitude of this challenge and the kinds of difficult decisions we have before us, I wanted to share a few scenarios. These are NOT decisions or even options at this point. Rather, I'm trying to give you a sense of what it takes to put together a package of reductions that meet what we may have before us.
Central office

It is so important that you know that we are carefully reviewing administrative staffing, functions and expenditures at the central office and identifying what reductions could be made. If we made a 5% reduction in administrative staffing, we could realize $820,000 in savings. A 15% reduction could realize approximately $2.4 million. Keep in mind that the central office provides many essential services such as payroll and benefits, student enrollment, bond projects and facilities management, IT infrastructure and support, maintenance management, and professional development. These reductions would result in fewer, or perhaps in some cases slower, essential services provided to our schools, students, teachers, and families.
Shorter school week

Some school districts are considering a four day week, and some of you have asked about this as an option. We are exploring this schedule change as one of the possible scenarios for next year. We would protect learning time by lengthening the school day, but we would only save approximately $1.4 million. Of course, this would result in our students having an additional day each week away from school. It also means that parents would need to make accommodations for a full day of child-care, which could be extremely challenging for them. It would also mean that site and classroom schedules would need comprehensive revisions.
Program reductions

We could consider reducing or eliminating important programs like athletics or fine arts. Even a total elimination of athletics would only provide $2.3 million. Elimination of fine arts would mean $8.1 million in savings. These are unfathomable considerations. We know that the arts and athletics are extremely important avenues of opportunity for our students. We know that they help to educate the whole child, ensuring that our graduates are well-rounded young adults. In addition, school schedules are built using these classes as a way to provide planning time for our teachers.
Increased class sizes

We are analyzing the savings that could result from increased class sizes. For example, an increase of one student could provide $2.6 million in savings. In some cases, we might have to consider larger increases. To give you a sense of what that would mean, an increase of four students would create $9.6 million in savings. We already know that our current classes are too large, so any increase is a terrible option to consider.
Keep in mind that due to both educator attrition and our strong hiring numbers for this year, larger class sizes could mean a decrease in the number of new teachers hired into TPS next year.
Transportation

We may have to consider reducing or eliminating transportation of students in the district. For example, if we limited transportation services to special education students only, we would save approximately $8 million per year. Of course, it would also mean that more than 7,000 students and their families would need to find alternate transportation to school. For most of our families, that would be a tremendous hardship. It could mean increased absenteeism of our students as well.
Campus security

We are fortunate to have our campus police and campus security available to deal with a wide variety of safety concerns. If we completely eliminated these services, we would save $3.5 million. Of course, safety is a priority for our district. In fact, above everything else, we have to be sure that our students and teachers are safe, and we know that our world has changed. Arguably, the need for campus security has never been higher.
I want to reiterate that we have NOT made any decisions. In addition, these are not the only possibilities. What I'm sharing with you is information to consider. We are working hard to identify solutions that allow our district to continue to serve Tulsa students and families well and prepare our children to succeed in college and careers.
This afternoon I met with our school leaders, and they are available for site-based staff to share concerns, ideas and questions. Central office staff members can contact their chiefs and executive directors to discuss this message and any questions or concerns. You can also reach out to me directly. I will continue to keep you updated during this challenging time especially as more information becomes available. I want you to be aware of the conversations happening within the district leadership team and Board of Education as we determine how to manage the shortfall.
I know it is a really difficult time to be working in education in our state, and I am so grateful for you! We will get through this painful time together. I made a video to accompany this email, and you can find it here: video message.
Best,
Deborah
Deborah A. Gist | Superintendent
Tulsa Public Schools


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Townsend on February 25, 2016, 03:42:47 pm
This isn't cutting "paper shufflers in OKC" anymore, these cut are going to be real and very deep. Call you representatives.

Tulsa Public Schools considers four-day school week, eliminating buses to meet next year's budget cuts

Tulsa Public Schools considers four-day school week, eliminating buses to meet next year's budget cuts - Tulsa World: Education (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/tulsa-public-schools-considers-four-day-school-week-eliminating-buses/article_e6b49f9c-de8a-59bf-a7f6-8c6cc778f73c.html)

That will draw so many families and businesses to our section of Oklahoma.  That's really helping us out...raising our home values, building our quality of life...


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: davideinstein on February 25, 2016, 07:38:36 pm
The education cuts are very alarming. Something drastic needs to change in Oklahoma City.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Conan71 on February 26, 2016, 08:52:13 am
The education cuts are very alarming. Something drastic needs to change in Oklahoma City.

It’s not just education as CF alluded to.  Why would anyone want to move to a low tax utopia which will resemble Mexico in 20 years?

Quote
Parks and tourism has seen a 50% reduction in budget since 2009 (keep in mind, Oklahoma was booming during that period).

The arts budget has been slashed.

Per Pupil spending on education is down in the same period.

Our infrastructure grade is still "deficient."

And our solution was to cut taxes on anyone making above average, propose raising taxes on everyone (more sales tax), and take away subsidies for poor people.

What this says is that our current leadership feels the problems facing our state is too much spending on public infrastructure, too much spending on quality of life, the wealthiest people need more help from government, the poorest people need to pay more in taxes, and that our education system is over funded. If that isn't delusional, I don't know what is.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 26, 2016, 09:48:48 am
Simple argument:

What areas of the country are drawing in residents, seeing economic growth and innovation, have the highest incomes and standards of living?

If our representatives were right, it would be Kansas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, and West Virginia.  Cutting taxes, cutting education, cutting workers comp, cutting environmental regulations, fighting socialized medicine, and fighting for laws to enforce socially conservative values. And they have been doing it for decades, with the last 10-15 years really a boom time for that ideology.

Where are the people and companies fleeing the areas we are trying to differentiate ourselves from?  Where are the people and companies from Oregon, Seattle, the Bay Area, Minneapolis, the eastern range of Colorado, Chicago, Connecticut or New York? Certainly people don't continue to move there, start companies there, or grow companies there because they are conservative, low tax, low regulation, cheap labor destinations?

Oklahoma is a commodity economy. Just like Nigeria or Venezuela. Take away our oil and we will collapse in short order - remove Williams, OneOK, H&P, Devon, Chesapeake, Unit Corp, Holly, etc. Remove the myriad of manufacturers who depend on the needs of the oil patch. Remove the trucking jobs, the pipeline welders, and all the service jobs that support those people. 100 years on and we still depend on the oil patch - we don't need no education. We don't need no quality of life.

As long as we have oil, people have to live here. So who cares about improving anything?

The areas that truly prosper have seen their "commodity" dry up. Chicago's boom time as a railroad crossing isn't its economic identity anymore. The eastern range grew basically from settlers giving up on heading west. New York hasn't been a port town for several generations. The Bay area's gold ran out 150 years ago. They rely on their people for their wealth. Education. Innovation. And diversification.

As long as we depend on and cater exclusively to the oil patch... we will remain a commodity economy. That's not a knock on the oil patch, God knows we need those jobs and many of the companies I listed are top notch companies. But we need more, and relying on call centers and warehouse jobs isn't what I mean. Only an educated population with proper infrastructure and government services can build what we want.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: AquaMan on February 26, 2016, 11:31:54 am
Why do you keep expecting more from this group of legislators and leaders when they so closely follow the demographic makeup of their constituents?

Chicago didn't kill the railroads to change their politics, they died off and the economics changed them. Michigan is changing because of economics. Education is not going to change Oklahoma either unless its on a massive scale. Make note that when we do educate them they leave for the eastern range or the coasts.

Yet, we continue to whine about the politicians doing what they are elected to do, which is to reflect our religious, moral, conservative values.

To me Oklahoma must change its attitude from admiring people who agree to execute the populace wishes even when they are in error and play up those who actually lead in spite of disapproval. That may have to come from corporations who move here for our "commodities" and bring their enlightened leadership with them. Those leaders then migrate into the state's political arena with bonafides and make change.

At least that's what worked in the past Oklahoma, and specifically Tulsa, when we had major oil companies locate here from non commodity states.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: AquaMan on February 27, 2016, 10:51:34 am
This isn't cutting "paper shufflers in OKC" anymore, these cut are going to be real and very deep. Call you representatives.

Tulsa Public Schools considers four-day school week, eliminating buses to meet next year's budget cuts

Tulsa Public Schools considers four-day school week, eliminating buses to meet next year's budget cuts - Tulsa World: Education (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/tulsa-public-schools-considers-four-day-school-week-eliminating-buses/article_e6b49f9c-de8a-59bf-a7f6-8c6cc778f73c.html)

I don't think legislators in OK give a flip about proper funding of public schools. We need to work around them in the short term. With that in mind I want to propose a solution to part of the funding that may provide some synergy to our city and state. Please don't dismiss it with a few short snappy retorts like the legislators do. Give it some thoughtful consideration.

The one part of TPS I know something about is the bus system. It struggles to maintain its purpose with less than adequate funding, just like the rest of TPS. It also suffers from the same level of mediocre management the rest of the system labors under. However, no amount of top level management can make up for the fact they are both underfunded and over criticized.

Consider eliminating all or most of the yellow bus system and replace it with city metro service from MTTA.

This frees up budgeting to allow history, athletics, music and arts to continue which is infinitely more important than a "free" ride to school. This is not unprecedented. I attended public schools in Tulsa during the 1950's and 1960's when Tulsa experienced growth in suburbs and downtown. We didn't have school buses. Never saw one at Kendal, Wilson, Central or the other outlying schools. We either walked to school, rode with our parents or ....took the city bus. I walked a mile to Kendal, rode my bike to Wilson and walked a couple blocks to catch the 6th street bus to Central.

I know, times have changed. We didn't have special needs classes (we mainstreamed a lot of what we call special needs today, the rest we committed to facilities like Hissom or juvenile detention). We had a majority of stay at home moms and single income families. The suburbs hadn't really exploded yet. We were content to accept separate but equal, so busing was delayed here. We only had two expressways, I-44 and the BA expwy. So, yes times have changed.

But times are changing again. The trend now is towards inner city, heavier density, private schools, charter schools and religious schools. Even suburbs tend to be self sufficient as in Stone Bluff in Owasso. That argues for more public transportation, and private school buses. At some point I believe the pendulum will swing back to neighborhood schools with less need for yellow bus transportation. As we press to increase public transportation of all kinds the funding for yellow buses can be transferred.

MTTA is a better employer for the dislocated TPS drivers and staff, since it doesn't carry the stigma of public school waste the legislators hate so much. And, their funding is more secure. The IBC bus manufacturer in east Tulsa (who strangely does not provide to the local system) can easily retool for more public trans buses or change their strategies. They will adjust, or not. The Lift, also managed by MTTA,  is well qualified and suited for real disability students and can easily meet that need. Federal funding is available for each special needs passenger. Many special needs classified students are merely behavioral, low performing or mild autism who can and should be riding with their peers on regular buses.

So, the bottom line is we have less duplication of efforts, more routes serving more people who then become adjusted at an early age to public transportation, more budget for education's main mission and less dependence on state malevolence toward them.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: TheArtist on February 27, 2016, 03:20:32 pm
I don't think legislators in OK give a flip about proper funding of public schools. We need to work around them in the short term. With that in mind I want to propose a solution to part of the funding that may provide some synergy to our city and state. Please don't dismiss it with a few short snappy retorts like the legislators do. Give it some thoughtful consideration.

The one part of TPS I know something about is the bus system. It struggles to maintain its purpose with less than adequate funding, just like the rest of TPS. It also suffers from the same level of mediocre management the rest of the system labors under. However, no amount of top level management can make up for the fact they are both underfunded and over criticized.

Consider eliminating all or most of the yellow bus system and replace it with city metro service from MTTA.

This frees up budgeting to allow history, athletics, music and arts to continue which is infinitely more important than a "free" ride to school. This is not unprecedented. I attended public schools in Tulsa during the 1950's and 1960's when Tulsa experienced growth in suburbs and downtown. We didn't have school buses. Never saw one at Kendal, Wilson, Central or the other outlying schools. We either walked to school, rode with our parents or ....took the city bus. I walked a mile to Kendal, rode my bike to Wilson and walked a couple blocks to catch the 6th street bus to Central.

I know, times have changed. We didn't have special needs classes (we mainstreamed a lot of what we call special needs today, the rest we committed to facilities like Hissom or juvenile detention). We had a majority of stay at home moms and single income families. The suburbs hadn't really exploded yet. We were content to accept separate but equal, so busing was delayed here. We only had two expressways, I-44 and the BA expwy. So, yes times have changed.

But times are changing again. The trend now is towards inner city, heavier density, private schools, charter schools and religious schools. Even suburbs tend to be self sufficient as in Stone Bluff in Owasso. That argues for more public transportation, and private school buses. At some point I believe the pendulum will swing back to neighborhood schools with less need for yellow bus transportation. As we press to increase public transportation of all kinds the funding for yellow buses can be transferred.

MTTA is a better employer for the dislocated TPS drivers and staff, since it doesn't carry the stigma of public school waste the legislators hate so much. And, their funding is more secure. The IBC bus manufacturer in east Tulsa (who strangely does not provide to the local system) can easily retool for more public trans buses or change their strategies. They will adjust, or not. The Lift, also managed by MTTA,  is well qualified and suited for real disability students and can easily meet that need. Federal funding is available for each special needs passenger. Many special needs classified students are merely behavioral, low performing or mild autism who can and should be riding with their peers on regular buses.

So, the bottom line is we have less duplication of efforts, more routes serving more people who then become adjusted at an early age to public transportation, more budget for education's main mission and less dependence on state malevolence toward them.

I think it's definitely an idea to consider.  I imagine in other places in the world they don't have dedicated school busses but the kids use transit or walk/bike to school.  Where I lived in London every morning you would see the kids and their parents walking to school.  The parents dropped the kids off at school and then took transit to work in the city.  The schools would often be within walking of transit and where people lived/shopped.  Too bad our city doesn't plan this stuff out like that. 


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Conan71 on February 27, 2016, 10:26:07 pm
Aqua, you and I had similar ways of getting to school and I really don’t remember TPS having much of a bus system prior to 1980 or so.  I’ve shared on here before that I used MTTA to get around quite a bit as a latch key kid.  I think you make great points.  When we moved to 81st & Yale and started going to Jenks, yellow buses made sense because MTTA did not serve that area of the city and Jenks was the school district for south Tulsa from roughly 65th from Yale to Lewis and on south.  Their main campus was still at 1st & B streets in Jenks.  For that matter, their entire system was still at that plot of land in 1977 when we started there.

In other words, having their own bus system made great sense. 

Probably with a few exceptions, all of TPS’s campuses are served by Tulsa Transit and might be a way that Tulsa Transit could become more relevant and perhaps gain some additional funding by TPS dropping its own bus service.



Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: AquaMan on February 28, 2016, 08:10:33 am
Its not an inconsequential amount of savings in their budget. There are some 300 buses at an average purchase price exceeding $75,000 used to $150,000 new plus drivers, staff, maintenance, administrative overhead, and 4 bus depot sites. They even recently purchased high end VanHool coach buses to accommodate out of state activity runs (they are way underutilized) while the majority of their regular/special needs fleet is aged, decrepit and in need of replacement. Can't even find parts for them.

My next step is to find someone on the board to listen to me. Listening is the most important, yet rarest, skill these days.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Conan71 on February 28, 2016, 09:34:59 am
My next step is to find someone on the board to listen to me. Listening is the most important, yet rarest, skill these days.


Sounds like Dr. Gist is already willing to consider sacrificing that system. 

Guido mentioned something about getting rid of bus service in public schools some time back and he was basically called an insensitive dick.  I do believe the genesis of TPS starting to rely on bus service was when the administration finally was willing to admit how much worse the schools were in poorer parts of the TPS system.  Rather than put more effort into making those schools much better within their own community, they started integrating north side kids into south side schools. 

When I was growing up, elementary schools were within walking or bicycling distance or a very short drive on crappy weather days, and for the most part, still are.  I have to question the wisdom of TPS continuing to bus kids 10-15 miles for high school students.

There’s no need for school systems to own over the road coaches for out of town events.  That’s nothing more than a vanity contest amongst school administrators.  If the athletes need a cushy ride out of state, Kincaid has a whole fleet they can rent, including the driver.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on February 28, 2016, 12:16:50 pm
Sounds like Dr. Gist is already willing to consider sacrificing that system. 

Guido mentioned something about getting rid of bus service in public schools some time back and he was basically called an insensitive dick.  I do believe the genesis of TPS starting to rely on bus service was when the administration finally was willing to admit how much worse the schools were in poorer parts of the TPS system.  Rather than put more effort into making those schools much better within their own community, they started integrating north side kids into south side schools. 

When I was growing up, elementary schools were within walking or bicycling distance or a very short drive on crappy weather days, and for the most part, still are.  I have to question the wisdom of TPS continuing to bus kids 10-15 miles for high school students.

There’s no need for school systems to own over the road coaches for out of town events.  That’s nothing more than a vanity contest amongst school administrators.  If the athletes need a cushy ride out of state, Kincaid has a whole fleet they can rent, including the driver.

Owning the bus is cheaper to schools than renting it. Due to our methods of school funding districts can get the capital funds they need locally, it's the operating costs that come from state funding and schools are prohibited from raising more operating funds locally.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: AquaMan on February 28, 2016, 01:23:22 pm
There was no good reason to heavily invest in Van Hool coaches when the rest of the regular fleet is old and older. Maintenance is a real struggle anyway but the yellow fleet is a real drain. Good condition activity buses are easily found in the $25K range. These monsters were reconditioned and ran $75-150K. To take football teams to OKC? Administrative staff to out of state training? No, they intend to, and do compete in the open market against private operators with public monies. Not cool.

Lease vs own is complicated for a school system I'm sure. If you don't include the real costs of administration, self insurance, maintenance, site expense, recruiting/hiring/firing of labor etc. its easier. The school system doesn't get to deduct those expenses or take depreciation either. The TPS buses are sold as scrap for pennies on the dollar even though many are still usable in the private sector. Oh, well, what taxpayers don't know won't hurt them. Then factor in they are a 9-10 month asset use while your overhead is 12 months. In Lousiana it is common for independents to take on all those expenses and liabilities. The school system sets standards and the operators bid on the routes.

When a system is well funded, our model works. When your legislators are intent on replacing a public system with vouchers and private schools, it gets messy.



Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: Conan71 on February 28, 2016, 06:28:03 pm
Owning the bus is cheaper to schools than renting it. Due to our methods of school funding districts can get the capital funds they need locally, it's the operating costs that come from state funding and schools are prohibited from raising more operating funds locally.

That depends on utilization.  If you run the bus several times a week up to daily, that would be correct.  If the activity buses are used a few times a month, there is simply no way owning is cheaper than leasing on an as-needed basis.


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 29, 2016, 12:47:59 pm
Aqua, you and I had similar ways of getting to school and I really don’t remember TPS having much of a bus system prior to 1980 or so.  I’ve shared on here before that I used MTTA to get around quite a bit as a latch key kid.  I think you make great points.  When we moved to 81st & Yale and started going to Jenks, yellow buses made sense because MTTA did not serve that area of the city and Jenks was the school district for south Tulsa from roughly 65th from Yale to Lewis and on south.  




Mid 60's the TPS bus system was well developed.  Had to live more than about a mile from school to get a ride, so I never did.  Drove my car, too.  Couple of girl friends at East Central rode every day at 3:41 pm.  It was touch and go whether we could get there from Hale before they got on the bus.  Most times we made it...


The story I tell the kids about how rough it was when I went to school is that, "I had to drive a half mile every day, rain or shine, uphill both ways..."




Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: swake on March 02, 2016, 12:33:29 pm
And the bill to drop Medicaid for over 100k Oklahomans passes the house.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/oklahoma-house-passes-bill-cutting-from-medicaid/article_e2bb35ee-f174-5c27-a0c9-5e9021164c8e.html




Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: patric on March 27, 2016, 01:30:16 pm
And the bill to drop Medicaid for over 100k Oklahomans passes the house.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/oklahoma-house-passes-bill-cutting-from-medicaid/article_e2bb35ee-f174-5c27-a0c9-5e9021164c8e.html


Obviously, others were more deserving of the money.
</s>




OKLAHOMA CITY — Last year, a pair of out-of-state private prison companies received a record $92.7 million from the state Corrections Department for housing Oklahoma inmates, a necessary expense to deal with the state’s persistent overcrowding problem, agency officials say.

Since 2004, the state has spent roughly $975 million on contracts with the two for-profit corrections enterprises operating in Oklahoma, based in Florida and Tennessee.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/private-prison-spending/pdf_9a942a1e-926c-5e98-8cfe-ed2d66e0bd60.html


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 28, 2016, 09:18:18 am
“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”
--Garrison Keillor


Title: Re: The Oklahoma Republican Party is made up of Scumbags
Post by: RecycleMichael on March 28, 2016, 10:40:23 am
Back in my day...I walked a mile and a half to Wilson Middle School with my siblings. My mother took us in her car in bad weather or we rode the 11th street transit bus. Usually after school I rode the city bus to downtown to hang out at the downtown YMCA till a parent could take me home.