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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: cannon_fodder on January 08, 2016, 04:03:53 pm



Title: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 08, 2016, 04:03:53 pm
Lets start off where we ended up last year, with legalized gay marriage by the Supreme Court.

2016 SB973, Preservation of Sovereignty and Marriage Act purports to undue all of that. It was introduced last February as HB 1599 by this same idiot and Sally kern, and died because we had a Constitutional Amendment and laws on the books doing the same thing, but this was going to make trippple sure because it says the Courts cant stop it (this was after 2 Federal Courts had already ruled Oklahomans had a US constitutional right, so our legislatures were trying to over ride that right). It was introduced, made fun of by people all over the internets, then died. Then, of course, it turns out it would have been unconstitutional anyway.

So lets bring that back!

It purports to make gay marriage illegal, unfunds all services , prohibits Oklahoma public employees from recognizing, and prohibits anyone from interfering with the state interfering with gay marriage, all while preserving Oklahoma's sovereignty.  It goes on to say all State Judges must dismiss any Court challenge to the Act, and any judge that hears a challenge to the act shall be removed from office (the reasons specified, when viewed in this context, are awesomely funny (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84964)) in the act is immune from any Federal Court rulings.

Text here:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20INT/SB/SB973%20INT.PDF
Tracker here:
http://www.oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=SB973&Session=1600

I think my favorite part is that it is not challenged in State Court in any way, and if a judge dares uphold our State Constitution and allow a judicial challenge he is corrupt/derelict/incompetent and gets the boot! Remember, if one branch of government tells the other branch of government that it can not longer do its job, then that's how separation of powers works!

Or maybe it is the Federal Court clauses:

Quote
The Preservation of Sovereignty and Marriage Act shall be fully effective, based on the Eleventh Amendment to the Constitution
of the United States and the structure of the United States Constitution, against any contrary federal court ruling.

let it goes guys, because its gone. [sarcasm font]I don't like the fact that non-landing-owning non-white non-males can vote... but I decided to just give up on that and move on [/sarcasm font].

(https://media.giphy.com/media/71SHuWsZp5fwY/giphy.gif)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 08, 2016, 04:35:14 pm
An Amendment to the "Oklahoma Religious Freedom Act" is back on the table. SB898. The original law The Amendment essentially prohibits the government from making anyone do anything if the person makes a claim that it conflicts with their religious beliefs. A person can "act or refuse to act" in accordance with your religious beliefs, even if contrary to law or the rights of others, and be immune from criminal, civil, or administrative penalties.

http://www.oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=SB898&Session=1600

The original law was drafted in such a way that an ultra orthodox Jew who was denied the right to make a sacrafice by a City could call BS, or if a Catholic Church got in trouble for serving wine before 10Am on  Sunday...

I assume this is an attempt to give exemptions to the Kim Davis types who don't want to issue gay marriage licenses. But certainly the broad wording could apply to just about any situation you could imagine. If were to stone my neighbor for being a whore and the police wanted to arrest me, is that not the government "directly or indirectly constrain,inhibit, curtail or deny the exercise of religion by any person or compel any action contrary to a person's exercise of religion."

If I state that my sincere religious belief says that I can clap all stupid people and am forbidden from following speed limits - can I go around slapping people and not following speed limits? If you want to exempt public employees from issuing marriage licenses, do so. This law is just waiting for abuse by the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Laramie on January 29, 2016, 02:08:49 pm
Really what we call idiot bills being proposed through the Oklahoma State legislature.  

There are some colorful characters like Sally Kern; who wants to legislate morality, really get under the sheets in your bedroom.   Just often imagine what's going on in her life--why should we be happy...

My grandmother use to say, "if you're going to throw stones, don't stand too close to the rock pile."


Oklahoma has got to shed this 'Mother-hen mentality' if we want to do business in the 21st Century.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 29, 2016, 02:39:58 pm
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act is mirror language to what they passed in Indiana, which was repealed as quickly as they could - but not before as much as $100,000,000.00 in lost economic activity. Recall the NCAA, NFL, and major conventions threatened to boycott if they didn't repeal. Other businesses began the process of leaving, and are continuing that process.

So hey, it worked out well for them. Lets copy THAT.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 31, 2016, 07:02:22 pm
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act is mirror language to what they passed in Indiana

So hey, it worked out well for them. Lets copy THAT.


Watch for this coming down the pike:


The National District Attorney's Association hasn't hidden its intention to mobilize its local offices. The association, along with the International Association of Chiefs of Police, announced in November that they planned to partner with state legislators to enact mandatory smartphone decryption bills around the country.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/22/10815054/california-jim-cooper-encryption-district-attorney


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 01, 2016, 09:05:21 pm

Watch for this coming down the pike:


The National District Attorney's Association hasn't hidden its intention to mobilize its local offices. The association, along with the International Association of Chiefs of Police, announced in November that they planned to partner with state legislators to enact mandatory smartphone decryption bills around the country.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/22/10815054/california-jim-cooper-encryption-district-attorney


Here's another hard hitting, impactful, deep investigative, fact finding, insightful revelation discovering blog from the author you quoted..........

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/29/10868218/poncho-weather-ios-app (http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/29/10868218/poncho-weather-ios-app)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Hoss on February 07, 2016, 11:13:49 pm
Here's another one.

http://www.oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=sb977&Session=1600

In summary, this places a 'moratorium' on historic tax credits beginning in July of this year and lasting two years or until repealed.

The irony of it?

This:

Quote
This act shall be known and may be cited as the Fiscal Responsibility Moratorium Act.  Unless earlier repealed or revoked by the Legislature, the moratorium shall be in effect for the time period from July 1, 2016, through June 30, 2018.

So, we can reduce income tax for everyone, but somehow this gets the axe for two years.  SMFH.

Here's what prompted me to post this:

http://www.newson6.com/story/31162707/with-tax-credits-in-jeopardy-so-are-oklahoma-historic-renovations


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 08, 2016, 08:45:32 am
Aren't those projects only supposed to get tax credits if it is shown they would not happen without them?  That is to say, those tax credits only come down the pipe if someone certifies that it will end up being a net plus to the tax base...

I assume the Thunder's "quality jobs" kickbacks are still safe though?

- - - -

In other news, there have been TWENTY (20) bills filed again this year to try and bring the judiciary back under partisan control.  The legislature and governor have been very unhappy that judges have been enforcing laws instead of following the political will. Removing Monuments to favorite gods, throwing out laws that violate the constitution, and other unpopular constitutional bullsh!t!

So we have an annual trend of trying to gut the judiciary. From bills making it unconstitutional for judges to rule laws unconstitutional, to funding cuts, to making judges subject to removal for making unpopular decisions. The most common approach is to make judges either political appointments or partisan elections.

http://okpolicy.org/no-less-20-measures-filed-change-oklahomas-judicial-system-year-capitol-updates

Please recall, Oklahoma is famous for our 1960s examples of how NOT to run a judicial system. By having partisan elections and making judges political appointments, it turns out you get partisan and political decisions. Also, it turns out many of them were for sale. It is actually studied and written about in volumes as an example of how a judiciary should not be run.  (https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=oklahoma%20judicial%20scandal&oq=oklahoma%20judicial%20scandal&aqs=chrome..69i57.3735j1j4) The current system has worked well for 50 years.

Now lets think, why would we want to go back to the other system. Easier to corrupt. Less likely to follow the constitution. Susceptible to political pressure and bribes.  Why, oh why, would someone want that system.

Probably just to ensure that laws are upheld and the constitution is supported...


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 08, 2016, 11:55:32 am

There are some colorful characters like Sally Kern; who wants to legislate morality, really get under the sheets in your bedroom.  
[/i]



Probably without intent or even realizing it, you have just painted one of the scariest pictures in my mind I have ever had....  Worse than all the chain saw/big shark massacres combined!!

Worse than no more Snickers bars or Coca Cola...!!

Sally Kern under anyone's sheets, let alone mine!!





Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on February 08, 2016, 01:36:39 pm

Probably without intent or even realizing it, you have just painted one of the scariest pictures in my mind I have ever had....  Worse than all the chain saw/big shark massacres combined!!

Worse than no more Snickers bars or Coca Cola...!!

Sally Kern under anyone's sheets, let alone mine!!


Remember, she's always got a big gun with her.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/28/article-0-0BD0A53800000578-887_233x423.jpg)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 08, 2016, 03:13:19 pm
Remember, she's always got a big gun with her.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/28/article-0-0BD0A53800000578-887_233x423.jpg)


I shudder....



And not in the good way like the hyenas saying Mufasa in the Lion King....



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: AquaMan on February 08, 2016, 03:14:41 pm
She looks like Fallin's meth sister.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 08, 2016, 03:15:53 pm
WOW!!  Second look, she DOES look like Meth user...geez, what is this state doing to itself??



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: patric on February 09, 2016, 11:16:26 am
WOW!!  Second look, she DOES look like Meth user...geez, what is this state doing to itself??


Though we rank high in the stupid, we are not alone:

Michigan legislators, busy with the Flint water crisis, had time to ban beastiality last week.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/michigan-legislators-extend-statewide-sodomy-ban-article-1.2525376

We should be paying attention to Flint because our water system is old enough to have some lead supply lines (and im told we do).




Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: AquaMan on February 09, 2016, 12:43:30 pm
Without a doubt. Lots of lead pipes in the older parts of town (pre 1950's). Someone from the water dept. was on the news when this all broke saying that we added a chemical to our water that keeps the lead pipes from leaching. Great...I guess.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on February 09, 2016, 01:06:49 pm
The problem in Flint was they changed water sources to a river with really corrosive water. That water ate into the old lead pipes causing them to leach lead into the water, even after the water source was changed.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 09, 2016, 03:21:37 pm
We are not alone in the stupid. BUT -

The Flint crisis is a three pronged assault. First, old system with lead pipes and lead solder that had built up deposits over the years that masked the problem. Second, new system had more corrosive water and higher requirements for chlorine and other oxidizers that removed the buildup. And third, government incompetence or cover-up (take your pick). That issue is not mutually exclusive with other issues.

Also - the legislator behind the "sodomy law" has a pretty good defense for it. He wanted a law that prevents those convicted of animal cruelty from getting more animals. He tacked it into existing law, which included the sodomy language (covering pretty much anything other than vaginal intercourse) as a 15 year felony, life on the second offense. He stated that the law is clearly unconstitutional and unenforceable, but if he raised it as an issue and tried to strike it --- people would be up in arms and his main objective would fail. So, no harm no foul.

Ridiculous (and a 80% chance hypocritical) that any legislator would actually stand up and try to defend a felony conviction for oral sex in 2016, but pragmatic approach by this Michigan legislator.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/johnwright/michigan_senate_passes_bill_saying_sodomy_is_a_felony


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on February 09, 2016, 04:34:38 pm

Ridiculous (and a 80% chance hypocritical) that any legislator would actually stand up and try to defend a felony conviction for oral sex in 2016,

Kern


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on February 10, 2016, 12:30:28 pm
Gay Rights Groups Celebrate Defeat of Anti-Gay Oklahoma Bill

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gay-rights-groups-celebrate-defeat-anti-gay-oklahoma-bill (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gay-rights-groups-celebrate-defeat-anti-gay-oklahoma-bill)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Gay rights activists are celebrating the Republican-led defeat of a bill that would have allowed Oklahoma businesses to discriminate against gay people.

The Senate Judiciary Committee voted 5-4 on Tuesday against a bill dubbed the "Oklahoma Right of Conscience Act" by Broken Bow Republican Joseph Silk.

The bill would have allowed Oklahomans to refuse to provide goods, services or accommodations to gay people if they were following "sincerely held religious beliefs or conscience ... regarding marriage, lifestyle or behavior."

Two Democrats and three Republicans on the panel voted against the measure.

Troy Stevenson of the gay rights group Freedom Oklahoma praised the members who voted against the bill, but says there still are nearly a dozen more anti-gay measures pending in the Legislature.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2016, 12:32:38 pm
Why are they messing with Daylight savings time?

How is this the thing to spend time and money on right now?

Everything written about Oklahoma's state government might as well start with "Being the stupid dumbasses they are..."


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on February 11, 2016, 12:47:27 pm
The "Bill of Rights" monument bill is moving right though as well.

Oh, and the deficit is up to $1.4 Billion

Idiots doesn't begin to describe these yahoos.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2016, 12:54:56 pm
The "Bill of Rights" monument bill is moving right though as well.

Oh, and the deficit is up to $1.4 Billion

Idiots doesn't begin to describe these yahoos.

See?  Your post could start or end with "Being the stupid dumbasses they are..."


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on February 11, 2016, 01:21:18 pm
See?  Your post could start or end with "Being the stupid dumbasses they are..."

So it's like a header and a footer all in one....


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2016, 01:29:30 pm
Why are they messing with Daylight savings time?

How is this the thing to spend time and money on right now?

Everything written about Oklahoma's state government might as well start with "Being the stupid dumbasses they are..."

Any time the words: “Oklahoma Legislature...” come up on the news, it’s an instant tension headache for me.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 11, 2016, 02:02:45 pm
Why are they messing with Daylight savings time?

Because every June we want to see a sunrise at 5:06 AM and a sunset at 7:43 PM. (http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/tulsa?month=6&year=2016)

Who in their right mind would want to add an hour of daylight to the times people are actually awake and might be out of their houses? As long as we get up at 5AM instead of 6, start work at 7 instead of 8, and get off at 4... it won't really effect anyone's summer.  See, in the summer people like to do things outdoors. Very often in the evenings. Even after work you can get things done because you have an extra hour or two of daylight - lawn mowing, bike riding, playing with the kids, grilling out.

Who needs that crap? By moving sunset up an hour we can eliminate at least 25% of outdoor activity during the summer.

- - - -

And I can't wait for our new Bill of Rights monument. I was just thinking this morning - our schools suck, our medical examiners officer is unaccredited, our Sheriff's department isnt accredited either and our Sheriff is under indictment, we just had a number of TPD officers indicted, our infrastructure is crumbling, the cornerstone of our economy is collapsing and we are flat broke. What we really need is a stone monument as a first step in bringing back the 10 Commandments. That and some god ole' fashioned discrimination bills.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2016, 02:46:47 pm
Even Fallin is blaming the legislature for losing two Boeing projects.  #beingthestupiddumbassestheyare


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2016, 02:55:09 pm

And I can't wait for our new Bill of Rights monument. I was just thinking this morning - our schools suck, our medical examiners officer is unaccredited, our Sheriff's department isnt accredited either and our Sheriff is under indictment, we just had a number of TPD officers indicted, our infrastructure is crumbling, the cornerstone of our economy is collapsing and we are flat broke.


You must have missed the story in the World this morning that our prison system has $750 million in needed capital projects and we will be facing closing some of them.  More cheer!

Quote
Oklahoma must close some state prisons, new DOC interim director says

Related story: State Rep. Pam Peterson hopes to address incarceration rates by increasing felony threshold

OKLAHOMA CITY — Oklahoma needs to close some of its prisons, Department of Corrections Interim Director Joe Allbaugh said Wednesday.

On the job for about a month so far, Allbaugh said state prisons have capital needs in excess of $750 million.

“We are going to have to close some facilities, and that is going to cause a lot of pain, particularly with people who don’t believe their facility should be at risk,” Allbaugh said during an interview with the Tulsa World. “I understand that, but either we gain some efficiencies in the system or give me more money to build a prison.”

Some facilities aren’t safe for staff, offenders or administrators, and “it is just a matter of time before we have a serious incident,” Allbaugh said.

Asked which facilities he is considering closing, Allbaugh said: “Well, I don’t know. I am not there yet.”

Allbaugh, the former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, replaced Robert Patton, who announced in December his resignation from his position as corrections director to take a job in Arizona.

During his first weeks on the job, Allbaugh has been visiting prisons.

And he has seen a lot: low morale among underpaid correctional officers; programs that work but don’t have enough support; doors and locks on cells that don’t work but still house offenders; individuals at community centers and halfway houses that are not supervised properly; a draconian paper filing system to keep track of offender histories; holes in fences; and a system at 122 percent of capacity.

He described the bare bones staffing at the correctional officer level as “unnerving.”

“The overriding story is that there is a problem in the Department of Corrections,” Allbaugh said. “And the governor, Legislature and society as a whole have ownership of this problem.”

He points to mandatory sentences that send offenders to prison for long stays.

He supports sentencing reform but said it is not the agency’s “bailiwick.”

“That is not what we do,” he said.

While he said he is not a fan of using private prisons, given the state’s situation, they are a relief valve for the state, he said.

“Right now, (the private prisons) are saving our bacon,” he said.

Private prisons in Sayre and Watonga could be used to help relieve pressure on state prisons, he said.

Allbaugh is originally from Oklahoma. He has been living in Austin, Texas, but has a ranch in the Blackwell area. He has known Gov. Mary Fallin for more than 35 years, and he wanted to return to Oklahoma.

He watched from afar as Oklahoma came under national scrutiny for how it handled executions.

Since then, the agency has made significant changes to ensure that human errors do not put the state under the microscope again, he said.

“I am confident what has happened before will not happen again,” he said.

Allbaugh said he believes in the death penalty and that the day will come when executions resume in Oklahoma.

“We will be ready, and I have confidence in the men and women on the team and the individuals that it will be done right,” he said.

Allbaugh wears boots, slacks, a white shirt embroidered with his initials, a large belt buckle, rings and bracelets.

“That is (for) my youngest nephew,” Allbaugh said when asked about one of the bracelets. “He was killed in Al Anbar Province. I wear it for him.”

Marine Capt. Jeremy Allbaugh, 21, of Harrah was killed in Iraq in July 2007.

Allbaugh, 63, said in response to a question that he is not really a religious person. He used to like to hunt and fish when he had time, he said.

He likes Braum’s ice cream and milk.

“I think I have told people around the world it is the best stuff going on,” Allbaugh said.

He describes himself as a workaholic.

“I thrive on making things happen,” Allbaugh said. “Talk is cheap in my world. Action is everything.”

He said he has the ability to make decisions, enforce them and hold people accountable, including himself.

“Don’t make me the story,” he said. “I want the system to be the story. It is about a broken system that horribly needs attention and needs to be fixed. Everybody in the state has ownership of how it got this bad and how we need to fix it.

“We are all in this together. I don’t have a magic wand, but I do know how to correct things and make things happen.”

At the end of the day, he wants to have made a difference, he said.

Kevin Gross, chairman of the Board of Corrections, said when Allbaugh was appointed interim director in January that the board was hopeful that a permanent hire could be made within eight months.

Regardless of whether Allbaugh is on the job for a few months or years, he hopes that when looking back, people will say, “I am glad he stopped by.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/oklahoma-must-close-some-state-prisons-new-doc-interim-director/article_00bf05f5-902c-5dd8-8cb8-6d3d7779ea18.html


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2016, 10:40:05 am

And I can't wait for our new Bill of Rights monument. I was just thinking this morning - our schools suck, our medical examiners officer is unaccredited, our Sheriff's department isnt accredited either and our Sheriff is under indictment, we just had a number of TPD officers indicted, our infrastructure is crumbling, the cornerstone of our economy is collapsing and we are flat broke. What we really need is a stone monument as a first step in bringing back the 10 Commandments. That and some god ole' fashioned discrimination bills.



All the moaning/groaning, wailing, and gnashing of teeth aside....  THIS is what Oklahoma IS!  And shows every sign of remaining.  There is no hope on the horizon.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate.

As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, Okrahoma without end....


Amen!



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: AquaMan on February 12, 2016, 12:24:08 pm
There is always hope! But it is dampened by the attitude that Kansas and Oklahoma are pursuing right now which is to double down on the moral/political crusades while the masses are confused and pliable. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

A few good leaders standing up right now and the prospect of losing their phoney baloney jobs this fall can start the turn around.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on February 12, 2016, 01:19:24 pm
There is always hope! But it is dampened by the attitude that Kansas and Oklahoma are pursuing right now which is to double down on the moral/political crusades while the masses are confused and pliable. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

A few good leaders standing up right now and the prospect of losing their phoney baloney jobs this fall can start the turn around.

What's really disheartening to me is the all the Trump, Cruz and crazy anti-Obama stickers that are almost always on garbage cars. The very people that are hurt most by these idiots at the capitol in Oklahoma City are the people so excited to vote them into office.

Sometimes I wonder why I care. I'm not personally impacted by the state melt down really and Fallin's dumb income tax cuts really did save me a little money. I don't need Obamacare. My kids are nearly grown and if needed I can put my son in private school. My daughter goes to college out of state. Tulsa appears to be relatively safe from our energy industry caused earthquakes. What the idiots at the state capitol do really impacts me very little.

Maybe it's time for things to get really bad. For our low information voters to really get hit so they understand that elections DO have consequences. That when politicians use Jebus, Freedums, and Guns!-Guns!-Guns! to get elected, they aren't the voters friend.



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2016, 01:43:31 pm
There is always hope! But it is dampened by the attitude that Kansas and Oklahoma are pursuing right now which is to double down on the moral/political crusades while the masses are confused and pliable. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

A few good leaders standing up right now and the prospect of losing their phoney baloney jobs this fall can start the turn around.


No.  There is no hope.  You and I have both been watching this clown show for a long, long, time.  There were small glimmers in the 70's, which were quickly quenched by the mid 80's.  Since then it has continued to slide for a variety of reasons.  It is very easy to gauge by one simple metric - the minimum wage.  It reflects attitudes, directions, and results very well.  On a statewide as well as national basis.

The "peak" of our progress as a society trying to advance the general welfare is shown by the decline of real wages and standard of living in this country.  The work to broaden the beneficial effects of economic activity to a wider audience ended years ago - in fact, the opposite has been the goal of the right since the early 80's.

It's not just an old saying contrasting Democrats to Republicans - and the names aren't the important part, but the larger preponderance of attitudes behind those names - to "Democrats", low wages are the problem.  To "Republicans", low wages are the solution.

This plays out in every aspect of our lives from things like the union busting started in a big way by Reagan to trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA brought to us by both sold-out sides.

Eisenhower tried to warn us, but we would not listen....




Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2016, 01:49:32 pm
What's really disheartening to me is the all the Trump, Cruz and crazy anti-Obama stickers that are almost always on garbage cars. The very people that are hurt most by these idiots at the capitol in Oklahoma City are the people so excited to vote them into office.

Sometimes I wonder why I care. I'm not personally impacted by the state melt down really and Fallin's dumb income tax cuts really did save me a little money. I don't need Obamacare. My kids are nearly grown and if needed I can put my son in private school. My daughter goes to college out of state. Tulsa appears to be relatively safe from our energy industry caused earthquakes. What the idiots at the state capitol do really impacts me very little.

Maybe it's time for things to get really bad. For our low information voters to really get hit so they understand that elections DO have consequences. That when politicians use Jebus, Freedums, and Guns!-Guns!-Guns! to get elected, they aren't the voters friend.




That's why I said earlier I will probably vote for Trump.  Lets just get it going - rub some of these ignorant noses in what they say they really want, and maybe still have enough crumbs leftover to finally climb out of this long national nightmare!


At least on some fundamental level you care for the same reason I do --> "Let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools even though I personally don’t have a kid in school.  It’s because I don’t like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people." 




Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on February 12, 2016, 02:21:14 pm

Sometimes I wonder why I care. I'm not personally impacted by the state melt down really and Fallin's dumb income tax cuts really did save me a little money. I don't need Obamacare. My kids are nearly grown and if needed I can put my son in private school. My daughter goes to college out of state. Tulsa appears to be relatively safe from our energy industry caused earthquakes. What the idiots at the state capitol do really impacts me very little.


Well...that's a thing though.  Everyone's getting gum on their shoes, directly or indirectly, when these poor decision are made.  You are not immune.

Think about the people who are affected directly by what you mentioned...are you affected by those folks?  (parents, in-laws, friends, friend's kids, kid's friends, neighbors, co-workers, companies you do business with, etc.)   If you are...BOOM, you should definitely care.

The things I concern myself with are the things that make a difference when I wake up the next day.  Do they make a difference for me today?  Anything from my drive to work to the value of my house...you know the stupidity is screwing you on your home value.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 16, 2016, 01:08:09 pm
There are 20+ bills introduced to try and retch control of the judiciary from the judiciary. Mostly couched as populist or democratic notions or restoring "power to the people." Unfortunately, having judicial power to the people is exactly one step away from mob rule. And that step can either be ignorance or corruption (that is, people not educated in the law enabled to interpret the law or overt corruption).

Guess which one Oklahoma  is famous for?

Oklahoma is famous for having a wildly corrupt appellate judicial system up to the 1960s. A "use this as an example of what not to do" and "lets sell books about this" level of corruption. Appellate judges were subject to election, and they ran populace agendas (that is, no matter what the law says I can't rule this way or I won't get elected) and in manners that assured financial contributions (or they will go to my rival). The result was pay-to-play courts, not justice.

Almost universally, those crying for a new system are ignorant of the history and ignorant as to how the current system works.  To make sure we discourage corruption and to try and limit political influence in the appellate judiciary (recall Oklahoma was a Democratic state, with Page Belcher being the lone Republic for the decade), they came up with the following system:


Quote
1. A 15 member judicial nominating commission presents three applicants to the governor, who chooses one to be appointed to a given slot.

2. The judicial nominating commission is comprised of:
a) six members appointed by the governor, with no more than 3 from any political party and none may be an attorney
b) six elected by the Oklahoma Bar Association, one from each congressional delegation in 1967
c) one selected by the governor appointees and the Bar Association appointees, who must be a non-attorney (if they cannot agree, to be appointed by the governor)
d) One appointed by the Speak of the House (not an attorney)
e) One appointed by the President Pro Tempore of the Senate (not an attorney)

Members serve 6 year terms, and cannot serve consecutive terms. No commissioner is paid. All members may not hold any elected or appointed political office, may not serve in any official capacity in any political party, and may not be nominated to any judicial post.  These restrictions continue for five years after they leave the commission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_Judicial_Nominating_Commission

For 60 years we have operated scandal free. In spite of my many efforts to have someone point out clearly erroneous judicial fiats in Oklahoma, none have been forthcoming.  You can disagree with an outcome, but a judge isn't appointed to make a popular decision - they are to make the decision dictated by the law.  No one is really saying Oklahoma judges aren't doing that.

The more politics in the judiciary the worse off we are. The more immediate pressure there is on a judge to make a popular or profitable decision, the worse off we are. So why would you want to go back to a system that is proven corrupt instead of a system that has been working?


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 02, 2016, 10:48:33 am
Let me get this straight:  We can’t find more money for education, but we can pass controversial laws to promote an issue in public schools which seems to fall as much on religious lines as it does scientific interpretation.

This is an example of something which clearly should be taught at home or church, not public schools.  Parents need to be teaching their children a moral code this is not and never should be the role of public schools.

Quote
Oklahoma House approves school anti-abortion curriculum

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — The Oklahoma House has adopted legislation authorizing public schools to teach Oklahoma high school students that life begins at conception.

Without debate, House members on Tuesday voted 64-12 for the measure and sent it to the Senate for a vote. The National Right to Life Committee, the nation's largest anti-abortion organization, says Oklahoma is the first state to introduce such a bill.

The Humanity of the Unborn Child Act requires Oklahoma public high schools to teach students in grades nine through 12 "about the humanity of a child in utero," including details about how a fetus develops at certain stages of pregnancy.

Its author, Republican Rep. Ann Coody of Lawton, says the parents of high school students could opt their children out of the program.

http://www.hastingstribune.com/oklahoma-house-approves-school-anti-abortion-curriculum/article_042b70c2-e6e4-589b-9b82-29c9ec6f192c.html



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on March 02, 2016, 12:26:47 pm
Let me get this straight:  We can’t find more money for education, but we can pass controversial laws to promote an issue in public schools which seems to fall as much on religious lines as it does scientific interpretation.

This is an example of something which clearly should be taught at home or church, not public schools.  Parents need to be teaching their children a moral code this is not and never should be the role of public schools.


Will the program also teach/provide the means to not become pregnant? 

Will it provide a way for the kids to understand the financial steps and needs during and after pregnancy?

Surely they've provided that as well.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Weatherdemon on March 03, 2016, 08:24:04 am
Will the program also teach/provide the means to not become pregnant? 

Will it provide a way for the kids to understand the financial steps and needs during and after pregnancy?

Surely they've provided that as well.

Effective brainwashing of students to get them to fall in line when they become eligible voters and to convince their parents to fall in line until then.

This thread is probably the scariest thing I have read... maybe ever.
It's one thing to see these dumbazz things pop up occasionally in the news but it's another to see them together... and this year is only a couple of months old.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 03, 2016, 04:20:35 pm
Quote
Oklahoma House passes bill cutting 111,000 from Medicaid

OKLAHOMA CITY — Just how grim the state’s budget situation has become was apparent Wednesday morning as the state House of Representatives discussed and ultimately agreed to a bill that would cut 111,000 Oklahomans, most of them women, from Medicaid.

House Bill 2665, by Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove, instructs the Oklahoma Health Care Authority, which administers the state’s Medicaid program, to request a federal waiver that would allow it to exclude all able-bodied adults younger than 65.

Currently, Cox said, about 111,000 single, non-disabled parents earning less than $9,500 are covered by SoonerCare, Oklahoma’s version of Medicaid. Cox said 77,000 of those are women.

Such a move would save the state an estimated $130 million a year, according to the bill’s fiscal impact statement, but cost $203 million in federal matching funds. Cutting those recipients without the waiver would endanger Oklahoma’s entire Medicaid program and $3 billion a year in federal funds.

Through more than two hours of discussion and debate, Cox said he was not happy about the proposal but that he believed it was the only alternative.

The worse alternatives, he said, could include eliminating prescription drug coverage — a route that would not require a waiver — and lowering reimbursements to the point that health care providers no longer accept Medicaid patients, and the closing of many of the state’s nursing homes.

Democrats countered that the loss of $200 million in federal funding and the higher rates of uncompensated care are likely to close some hospitals, and questioned why Cox’s bill was the first addressing the state’s budget situation to reach the House floor.

They also wanted to know why the Republican-controlled state government had declined a Medicaid expansion offered by the Affordable Care Act, or “Obamacare,” a provision that was intended to address such situations.

“I am actually working with some folks to design something,” Cox said.

Cox is among a handful of Republicans who have publicly advocated that Oklahoma adopt a program similar to Arkansas’, in which expanded Medicaid funding is used to privately insure low-income individuals.

Democrats Eric Proctor of Tulsa and Mike Brown of Tahlequah questioned the morality of cutting Medicaid without addressing business incentives.

“The choice is not really about whether we help (one person) or someone else,” Proctor said. “It’s about whether we help CapitolOne or some other corporation or the poorest people in the state.”

The bill passed 65-34, with four Republicans joining all 30 Democrats in opposition. Two members did not vote.

Also Wednesday, the House approved Senate Bill 1570, transferring the Will Rogers Memorial to the Oklahoma Historical Society. The measure passed 85-9, and returned to the Senate.

randy.krehbiel@tulsaworld.com

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/oklahoma-house-passes-bill-cutting-from-medicaid/article_e2bb35ee-f174-5c27-a0c9-5e9021164c8e.html

In the comments section, one of Cox’s medical colleagues speculates Cox has something else up his sleeve:

Quote
For 20 years I have observed Dr. Cox taking care of the poor, the elderly and the children of our county. I have watched him incessantly take on his own party about women's rights, education, and the welfare of our state. I am sure there is a method to his proposal, whether it is to force the feds to reject the waiver making our state legislators face reality, force our governor to take another look at Obamacare, or to truly find a work around which would be better for our state. There is no way Dr. Cox will let 77,000 women making less than $10,000/yr go without healthcare. T. E. Riggs, MD


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 04, 2016, 09:02:35 am
Here is the bill discussed above:

HB2792 is the Humanity of the Unborn Child Act, requires:
Quote
1) Creates the "Public Education on the Humanity of the Unborn Child Fund," which shall be exempt from fiscal year limitations (restricted funds);

2) Funds shall be used to:
A) Educated the public on the Humanity of Child in Utero;
B) Utilizing information from the Health Department and Board of Medicine which complies with the purposes of the act )that is, don't teach the science that doesn't agree);
C) Educate on the gestation of fetuses at 2 week intervals;
D) Provide materials educated the public on Oklahoma's preference for birth and adoption and assistance that is available;

3) Teach the curriculum to 9th Graders

4) Funds from this program may not be used to finance programs or materials on human sexuality.

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20FLR/HFLR/HB2797%20HFLR.PDF

It is almost solid 50% of a decent anti-abortion effort in that it teaches there are alternatives and goes on to lie that Oklahoma helps single mothers (damn free loaders all wanting healthcare and childcare and education, get a job you bum! You knew what you were doing. Abstain whore, abstain!). But it also teaches the religious view that life begins at conception - purely a religious teaching.

Worse, it specifically forbids sex education. Why spend money and class time teaching all about pregnancy and how bad abortion is... and not bother mentioning STDs or pregnancy prevention? The ONE thing absoultely proven to cut down on the abortion rate.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 09, 2016, 11:41:55 am
Still not gaining on that $1.3 billion budget hole, but now the Senate thinks it’s within their means to strip abortion providers of their medical licenses:

Quote
Oklahoma Senate OKs plan to suspend licenses of abortion doctors

OKLAHOMA CITY — The Oklahoma Senate on Tuesday passed a bill that would allow for the revocation of medical licenses for doctors who perform abortions.

The measure has an exception to save the life of the mother or to preserve her health.

Senate Bill 1552, by Sen. Nathan Dahm, R-Broken Arrow, passed by a vote of 40-7 and heads to the House for consideration.

Spectators in the gallery broke out in applause following Dahm’s debate in which he said one of government’s core functions is to protect life. They were told they were violating Senate decorum and ceased the display.

Senate Minority Leader John Sparks, D-Norman, was successful in attaching an amendment requiring legal costs to be calculated for defending the measure should there be a court challenge.

A growing number of Oklahoma abortion laws have been challenged and overturned by the courts.

Sparks said the law is unconstitutional in numerous ways, including being an ex post facto law.

“This bill will be reversed,” he said.

Sparks said the measure would not reduce abortions in the state. The only way to reduce abortions is to increase access to health care and education for women, he said.

For 10 years, there has been “grandstanding” with abortion bills, but the abortion rates are constant, Sparks said.

Sen. Ervin Yen, R-Oklahoma City, the only medical doctor in the upper chamber, argued against the bill, but accidentally voted for it.

“The Legislature should not be in the business of stepping between a patient and her doctor,” Yen said.

Sen. Brian Crain, R-Tulsa, cast the only Republican vote against the measure. He said he is anti-abortion, but the bill was drastically amended without sufficient time to evaluate its full meaning.

The Oklahoma State Medical Association in a statement said it opposed the bill because it was an attempt to intimidate physicians and put politics in the middle of the physician-patient relationship.

In unrelated action, the Senate passed Senate Joint Resolution 65, which would let voters decide whether to let the governor appoint the Labor Commissioner with the advice and consent of the Senate. The office is elected by voters statewide.

Barbara Hoberock 405-528-2465

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/oklahoma-senate-oks-plan-to-suspend-licenses-of-abortion-doctors/article_dd07dda9-e621-58f7-b7bc-419f85c304f9.html


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 09, 2016, 11:55:58 am
It should be pointed out that for International Women's Day we introduced bills to make Abortion First Degree Murder (punishable by death) and strip Doctors of their medical licenses if they have ever worked for a clinic anywhere that ever provided abortions. There is exactly zero chance any of those would ever hold up to a due process challenge, but it sure make us feel warm and fuzzy and sends a strong message to any women's rights groups on Women's Day.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on March 09, 2016, 01:01:27 pm
It should be pointed out that for International Women's Day we introduced bills to make Abortion First Degree Murder (punishable by death) and strip Doctors of their medical licenses if they have ever worked for a clinic anywhere that ever provided abortions. There is exactly zero chance any of those would ever hold up to a due process challenge, but it sure make us feel warm and fuzzy and sends a strong message to any women's rights groups on Women's Day.

Who gets his hair cut like this?

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/medium/public/201301/Dahm.jpg)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 09, 2016, 01:17:28 pm
It should be pointed out that for International Women's Day we introduced bills to make Abortion First Degree Murder (punishable by death) and strip Doctors of their medical licenses if they have ever worked for a clinic anywhere that ever provided abortions. There is exactly zero chance any of those would ever hold up to a due process challenge, but it sure make us feel warm and fuzzy and sends a strong message to any women's rights groups on Women's Day.


Small side step here since Intl Women's Day was mentioned...  And it also has a nice Art Deco feel to it, so The Artist might like....   Google is honoring Clara Rockmore!!  Greatest Theremin player in the world!!


https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl




Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 09, 2016, 01:41:39 pm
Ni shagu nazad!!   


Full speed ahead, Kansas!!



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on March 09, 2016, 01:48:10 pm
Who gets his hair cut like this?

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/medium/public/201301/Dahm.jpg)

(http://www.abc.es/Media/201507/12/mrbean--644x362.jpg)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 09, 2016, 02:55:19 pm
Who gets his hair cut like this?

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/medium/public/201301/Dahm.jpg)

A closeted Oklahoma legislator.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on March 09, 2016, 03:40:06 pm
A closeted Oklahoma legislator.

Yeah, read his bio.
http://www.oksenate.gov/Senators/biographies/dahm_bio.aspx

He's unmarried and his "education" is that of a home schooled high school graduate. His work experience is working on missions trips and at bible schools, working for his parents cleaning company and I am not making this up:

"Former Producer, Local Production Company" and currently "self-employed with his own app development company"
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/31/8318507a-87c8-11e3-8ac0-001a4bcf6878/52e71da46c446.image.jpg?resize=300%2C436)

he's totally qualified to write laws that pertain to the medical field......


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on March 09, 2016, 03:56:54 pm
Yeah, read his bio.
http://www.oksenate.gov/Senators/biographies/dahm_bio.aspx

He's unmarried and his "education" is that of a home schooled high school graduate. His work experience is working on missions trips and at bible schools, working for his parents cleaning company and I am not making this up:

"Former Producer, Local Production Company" and currently "self-employed with his own app development company"

he's totally qualified to write laws that pertain to the medical field......

For the love of Christ, what is wrong with the voters in this state?


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 09, 2016, 04:30:09 pm
For the love of Christ, what is wrong with the voters in this state?

They’re all app developers living in their parent’s basement?


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 10, 2016, 09:25:33 am
And the hits keep on coming...

House Passes Resolution for Vote on Striking Church-State Separation from State Constitution (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/house-passes-resolution-vote-striking-church-state-separation-state-constitution#stream/0)

The Oklahoma House of Representatives has just done everything they can do to strip the Separation of Church and State from the Oklahoma Constitution.

The provision in question is Article 2, section 5: (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84812)

Quote
§ 5. Public money or property - Use for sectarian purposes.

No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such.

That is the only clause in the Oklahoma Constitution on Separation of Church and State. This helps the House reach several of its goals: directly funding madrasas (religious schools), putting monuments to Christ on government property, and adopting Sharia law. Wait, no, not that last one. That's still bad.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: AquaMan on March 10, 2016, 09:28:56 am
It also paves the way for the great spaghetti monster thing. I'm excited. I thought there was a bottom to their madness. It is infinite.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on March 10, 2016, 09:41:25 am
Apparently a number of state legislators are unaware of the 1st Amendment:

Tulsa World Editorial: UnAmerican bill targets animal rights groups
Quote
The Oklahoma House of Representatives is seeking to stifle free speech, and it ought to be ashamed of itself.
Earlier this month, on a 56-26 vote, the House approved House Bill 2250, which would prohibit animal rights charitable organizations from raising money for political purposes. The bill by Rep. Brian Renegar, D-McAlester, also would prohibit the groups, such as the Humane Society USA, from raising money in Oklahoma for any purpose outside the state.
 
It stems from a disputed series of events involving the humane society following the 2013 Moore tornado, but what happened then isn’t important. What’s important is what the Legislature is trying to do, which is just plain wrong.
If it’s not clear why it’s wrong, take out the phrase “animal rights charitable organization” in the bill’s language and insert some cause you support. Imagine if the Legislature tried to ban the National Rifle Association or the Democratic Party from raising money for political purposes. Imagine if the state tried to ban the American Cancer Society or the American Red Cross from raising money in Oklahoma for programs in other states.
It’s ridiculous. It’s wrong. It’s un-American.
Voicing political opinions, even unpopular opinions, is a constitutional right, and raising money is part of that right. There’s no legitimate reason why the state should prevent any charity from raising money to spend anywhere.
HB 2250 is bad legislation, and we hope it never sees the light of day in the state Senate.

FREEDOM!!!


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cynical on March 10, 2016, 10:09:18 am
Not satisfied with only a 1st Amendment violation, Renegar doubled down with a Commerce Clause violation for good measure.

Apparently a number of state legislators are unaware of the 1st Amendment:

Tulsa World Editorial: UnAmerican bill targets animal rights groups
FREEDOM!!!


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 10, 2016, 11:16:41 am
No, no , no. They love the US Constitution. Except:

Article 1, Section 8 - right to levy taxes and pay its debt obligations
Article 1, Section 8 - Commerce Clause
Article 3 - separation of powers, Judicial Power
Article 4 - Full Faith and Credit to the laws of other states
1st Amendment - where other people get to raise money and exercise their right to speech
1st Amendment - separation of church and state
2nd Amendment - the first clause about a "well regulated militia"
4th Amendment - unreasonable search and seizure, unless we totally know you are a bad person
6th Amendment - Speedy criminal trials
7th Amendment - right to civil jury trials
8th Amendment - excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishments
14th Amendment - Due Process to the States, making the Supremacy Clause on a host of issues actually matter
21st Amendment - Repeal of prohibition, Oklahoma has never ratified or even voted on the 21st Amendment

Other than those few details, they almost fully support it.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 10, 2016, 01:34:51 pm

That is the only clause in the Oklahoma Constitution on Separation of Church and State. This helps the House reach several of its goals: directly funding madrasas (religious schools), putting monuments to Christ on government property, and adopting Sharia law. Wait, no, not that last one. That's still bad.


Sharia law IS the old law of Abraham....so, yeah, they want Sharia law, but without the "Mooslem" name....



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 10, 2016, 01:36:01 pm
As always, one can always count on the worst from the Okrahoma legislature.  This too is unconstitutional, but shows the mind set that animal abuse is just fine with us....   I am still surprised they outlawed cock-fighting....


http://blog.humanesociety.org/wayne/2016/03/oklahoma-lawmakers-try-sending-a-lifeline-to-puppy-mill-operators.html



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on March 10, 2016, 04:24:32 pm
It's like Oklahoma elected the regulars on the Tulsa World comment section.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 10, 2016, 04:26:33 pm
It's like Oklahoma elected the regulars on the Tulsa World comment section.

“They eyes!!! They eyes!!!! They’re bleeding!!!"


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 11, 2016, 08:21:20 am
Boy, we keep hitting the national news:

HB3098 - Constitutional Open Carry (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20FLR/HFLR/HB3098%20HFLR.PDF)

Basically, everyone has a "god given right to defend" themselves and a Second Amendment right to open carry (not true), so everyone can do as they see fit with no requirements at all. When asked about removing any requirements for safety training the author replied "gun owners are free to get all the training they think they need. (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/10/oklahoma-house-passes-open-carry-firearms-legislat/)"

It eliminates any need for a permit to open carry, removes any qualifications for safety training, and removes any need for judges to have a permit before being allowed to carry firearms in Courthouses, removes any enforcement ability of colleges, removes the requirement that police officers get a certificate of good standing from Cleet before being allowed to carry firearms off duty to all the places officers are privileged to carry, eliminates the provision when an officer is fired, suspended or under investigation he turns over his CLEET firearm permit, the OSBI can issue a license to any person who is authorized to carry a firearm when traveling outside this state (anyone who asks can get a "license" and carry in any reciprocating state), and removes all enforcement language.

Remember our threads about learning from our neighbors?  Missouri has already done what Oklahoma is doing. Step by step elimination of firearm regulation. And it resulted in more firearm crime, including a higher murder rate.

Johns Hopkins used Missouri as a case study (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11524-014-9865-8) and compared the actual effects of the changes in a scientific survey (controlling for other factors etc.).  Eliminating the requirement to have a permit to purchase a handgun was responsible for a 23% increase in firearm deaths and saw no correlation to the rate of other murders (in other words, those people would not have died).  Overall, that is a 16% in the homicide rate in Missouri, while the national average fell by 11% during the same period.

The firearm homicide rate went up from slightly above national average, to 47% above national average. Accidental shootings are up. (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/are-looser-gun-laws-changing-the-social-fabric-of-missouri/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1737131x84899) The percentage of recently purchase firearms used in crimes also went up according to the ATF. Suicide by firearm went up 16%. Missouri has more guns, easier access to guns, and the ability to carry guns dang near wherever you want whenever you want. And is less safe. (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/22/health/in-missouri-fewer-gun-restrictions-and-more-gun-killings.html?_r=0)

Study (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/), after study (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2443681), after study (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11524-014-9865-8), after study (http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/gun-laws-deaths-and-crimes/), after study (http://www.livescience.com/51446-guns-do-not-deter-crime.html), after study (http://www.livescience.com/39813-gun-ownership-increases-firearms-deaths.html) debunks the myth that more guns makes communities safer. There certainly are responsible gun owners who I am happy to see armed, because responsible, trainer, sober people are capable of making life and death decisions. But that certainly doesn't apply to most people, and the statistics reveal that it simply doesn't make us any safer.

But hey, who needs to legislate based on facts?


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 11, 2016, 08:51:19 am
What got me was one of the legislators reading scripture as justification to support this bill.  Let’s just get it over with and have a constitutional convention to completely overhaul the existing constitution.  You know this is coming, right?

(http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/images/king-james-bible.png)


Lot of smiting, smoting, stoning ’n’ stuff.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 11, 2016, 09:21:37 am
One more point on the open carry law...

Quote
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about
his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the
person. . . . any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, sword cane,
blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any
other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or
unconcealed

It is illegal to carry a big knife, brass knuckles, or cats eye... but an assault rifle, that's fine.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: swake on March 11, 2016, 09:45:48 am
One more point on the open carry law...

It is illegal to carry a big knife, brass knuckles, or cats eye... but an assault rifle, that's fine.

Don't forget it's illegal to carry a beer in public. Assault rifles good, beer bad, because Jebus and Freedom.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on March 11, 2016, 12:42:31 pm
Imagine what would happen if a large group of 21 year old practicing Sikhs walked around with open carry.

The size of the fecal matter hitting the fan would be mountainous.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: patric on March 11, 2016, 12:52:06 pm

It eliminates any need for a permit to open carry

Sounds like it takes us back a few years to when there was no law forbidding open carry.  We seem to forget that having to license and register to open carry was actually not granting a privilege, but rather taking a right.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 11, 2016, 01:52:27 pm
Sounds like it takes us back a few years to when there was no law forbidding open carry.  We seem to forget that having to license and register to open carry was actually not granting a privilege, but rather taking a right.

Shenanigans.


The very first authorized law in Oklahoma is the Oklahoma Constitution. Adopted the year of statehood, 1907, Article 2, section 26:

Quote
§ 26. Bearing arms - Carrying weapons.

The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons.
Emphasis added.

On the day of statehood we were already talking about regulating the carrying of weapons. It should come as no surprise that before being a state, there were restrictions on carrying weapons in town, and there were rules for and by the tribes on carrying weapons.

The first law after statehood concerning the carrying of a firearms hit the books in 1910, cleverly called "unlawful carry" and is the basis for the same law today (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69740) ("A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, sword cane, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed....")  It was amended in 1957, and '69 (and after...). In 1971 Oklahoma passed the Firearms Act of 1971 (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=466208), which again spelled out when you CANT carry firearms:

Quote
A. A person shall be permitted to carry loaded and unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, open and not concealed [ later amended to include: and without a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act], pursuant to the following conditions:

1. When hunting animals or fowl;

2. During competition in or practicing in a safety or hunter safety class, target shooting, skeet, trap or other recognized sporting events;

3. During participation in or in preparation for a military function of the state military forces to be defined as the Oklahoma Army or Air National Guard, Federal Military Reserve and active military forces;

4. During participation in or in preparation for a recognized police function of either a municipal, county or state government as functioning police officials;

The Attorney General of Oklahoma interpreted that law very clearly in a 1981 opinion, specifying that even District Attorneys cannot conceal carry or open carry in Oklahoma. Only "Law Enforcement Officers," which means the actual police. Other than law enforcement, no one had a right to open or conceal carry in Oklahoma. 1981 OK AG 193 (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=49180).

That 1971 law was amended to conform with the 1993 Amendments to the Unlawful Carry statute, as well as significant alterations to conform to the  Self Defense Act of 1995 (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=437735) which authorized conceal carry in Oklahoma:

Quote
2. The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title; or

You now could legally conceal carry if you had a permit (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69787).

In 2003 they added an exception for carrying a firearm in public for the purposes of reenactment (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=449883) --- 13 years ago in Oklahoma you couldn't legally carry a fake musket onto a fake battlefield.

In 2007 they added the bit about allowing Judges to carry in the Courthouse, with a permit. (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=449883)

In 2012, the word "concealed" was removed from the Oklahoma Self Defense act, authorizing open carry in Oklahoma if you had a permit. 2012 SB 1733.  (https://www.ok.gov/governor/OpenCarryFAQ.html)

2016 they remove the requirement for a permit.

So if you meant to say that it was adding back a right that we never really had since Statehood... sure. But if you were implying that there was some recent restriction on that right as it applies to any person who was alive when that "right" may have existed in the State of Oklahoma, you're wrong.
 


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Hoss on March 11, 2016, 03:11:51 pm
I wonder if this passes, would that mean I could get the state to refund my damn $200 I spent on a 10 year firearm license?

My guess is no.  If it were to pass that way, it would never come to committee.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: patric on March 11, 2016, 04:13:13 pm
Thanks for the citations.

In 2003 they added an exception for carrying a firearm in public for the purposes of reenactment (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=449883) --- 13 years ago in Oklahoma you couldn't legally carry a fake musket onto a fake battlefield.

Ha!  The Oklahoma Historical Society was encouraging me to do just that... even have an OHS "volunteer of the year" plaque.  Did the same for the National Parks Service as a "volunteer interpreter."   Then there were all the school programs.  Didnt seem to slow anyone down.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: AquaMan on March 11, 2016, 05:37:36 pm
"After the 2012 elections, the Republican Party held more than two-thirds of the seats in the Oklahoma Senate and the Oklahoma House of Representatives."

36 to 12 in the Senate and 71 to 29 in the house. Not much gets done in the Oklahoma legislature without conservative Republican leadership.

Its not their fault. Its yours. If you voted republican for your state legislature in 2012 and 2014, and to return Fallin, this is your payback. Same thing happening in the Congress. Why blame them? They told you they were the most conservative.

I borrowed money to start a retirement business. I'm becoming very skeptical of opening it here.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 12, 2016, 04:24:42 pm
I wonder if this passes, would that mean I could get the state to refund my damn $200 I spent on a 10 year firearm license?

My guess is no.  If it were to pass that way, it would never come to committee.


 
Coody said he agreed to modify the bill because the original version would have cost the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, which issues gun licenses, 15 to 18 percent of its revenue.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/oklahoma-house-votes-to-eliminate-license-training-requirements-for-openly/article_e34c8be0-4adf-56ca-8424-3726304d6187.html




Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 12, 2016, 08:09:51 pm
I’m curious if that means that is why they decided not to include conceal carry from in the new law?


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 14, 2016, 08:12:35 am
"After the 2012 elections, the Republican Party held more than two-thirds of the seats in the Oklahoma Senate and the Oklahoma House of Representatives."

36 to 12 in the Senate and 71 to 29 in the house. Not much gets done in the Oklahoma legislature without conservative Republican leadership.

Its not their fault. Its yours. If you voted republican for your state legislature in 2012 and 2014, and to return Fallin, this is your payback. Same thing happening in the Congress. Why blame them? They told you they were the most conservative.

I borrowed money to start a retirement business. I'm becoming very skeptical of opening it here.



We have just started to casually look around at other states to move our business - it's really gotten bad when I would even casually think about that!  We have stuck around, encouraged family to return, and tried to talk acquaintances and business associates into moving here!   Gets tougher every year to make a case, especially when they throw this sh$t back in my face.  Getting tired of shootburgers!   It is a huge pain since so much of it is tied to a real estate location, but I have started looking at how to go 'mobile' - I think about 3 or 4 shipping container trailers and a truck to pull them would just about do it.   Can load/unload into any modest warehouse facility anywhere.  It's just the pain of doing it...







Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: AquaMan on March 14, 2016, 09:12:11 am
There has always been a small cadre of dedicated, reality based, forward thinking people in Oklahoma, most notably in OKC, Norman, Bartlesville and Tulsa. They were outsiders who came here to work in health, oil, education and engineering, raised their families and stayed for the low cost of living, the moderate climate and the friendliness of the natives. That group, and their reasons for staying, have been overshadowed in the last two decades by radical evangelicals, drugs, moral crusaders and anti-government groups. Those groups took over the school boards, the local law enforcement, the republican party and the state legislature. They make no apologies as they secure their vision of what the world should look like.

I'm thinking Colorado, California, Nevada or New Mexico. Reality? I'll die here at the hands of some meth head being chased by the local gendarme.


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 14, 2016, 11:52:16 am
Thanks for the citations.

Ha!  The Oklahoma Historical Society was encouraging me to do just that... even have an OHS "volunteer of the year" plaque.  Did the same for the National Parks Service as a "volunteer interpreter."   Then there were all the school programs.  Didnt seem to slow anyone down.


National Parks are a different situation - and you, as well as the rest of us, can thank Harry Reid for being the main driver to let us carry firearms in National Parks, etc now!



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: patric on March 14, 2016, 11:00:56 pm
Now, I thought this bill

SB1457 would define the term “motorcycle profiling” to mean the discriminatory use of the fact that a person rides a motorcycle or wears motorcycle-related paraphernalia as a factor in deciding to stop and question, take enforcement action, arrest or search a person or vehicle with or without a legal basis under the U.S. Constitution or Oklahoma Constitution.

...might have been aimed at the habit of routinely referring to motorcyclists as "gang members" but it could just as well address this


Police officer allegedly pepper-sprays passing motorcyclists

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/police-officer-allegedly-pepper-sprays-passing-mot/nqkdz/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCe9NJX3SqU
(http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/crop_542_103_987_534scalefit_630_noupscale/56e7151c1e0000b300704209.png)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Townsend on March 15, 2016, 11:36:03 am
Gay Rights Advocates Celebrate Demise of Anti-LGBT Bills

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gay-rights-advocates-celebrate-demise-anti-lgbt-bills (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gay-rights-advocates-celebrate-demise-anti-lgbt-bills)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Gay rights advocates in Oklahoma are celebrating the demise of more than two dozen bills in the Oklahoma Legislature this year that they say unfairly discriminate against members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, or LGBT, community.

Freedom Oklahoma Director Troy Stevenson said Monday that all 27 bills they targeted as discriminating against the constitutional rights of LGBT people failed to advance after a key deadline passed last week.

Stevenson praised gay rights supporters who visited their lawmakers and urged them to vote against the bills. Stevenson also praised "fair-minded" legislators in both parties who opposed the measures.

Broken Bow Republican Sen. Joseph Silk sponsored two bills targeted by the group and says he expects to reintroduce both of his measures again next year.

Joseph Silk is a smile-for-brains


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Conan71 on March 15, 2016, 01:06:35 pm
Gay Rights Advocates Celebrate Demise of Anti-LGBT Bills

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gay-rights-advocates-celebrate-demise-anti-lgbt-bills (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gay-rights-advocates-celebrate-demise-anti-lgbt-bills)

Joseph Silk is a smile-for-brains

Another closet case and a dick with ears

(http://www.oksenate.gov/Senators/biographies/silk_bio.jpg)


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 15, 2016, 04:00:10 pm
SB 1187 to finish the gutting of public education in Oklahoma is now in the House for it's approval.  Boy, we're gonna get some good jobs coming to the state after this....

The ignorance is literally breath taking.



Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 15, 2016, 07:09:00 pm
Now, I thought this bill

SB1457 would define the term “motorcycle profiling” to mean the discriminatory use of the fact that a person rides a motorcycle or wears motorcycle-related paraphernalia as a factor in deciding to stop and question, take enforcement action, arrest or search a person or vehicle with or without a legal basis under the U.S. Constitution or Oklahoma Constitution.

...might have been aimed at the habit of routinely referring to motorcyclists as "gang members" but it could just as well address this


Police officer allegedly pepper-sprays passing motorcyclists

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/police-officer-allegedly-pepper-sprays-passing-mot/nqkdz


Nope....More like this:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/washington-gov-signs-bill-vs-biker-profiling


Title: Re: (mostly stupid) New bills introduced in Oklahoma: 2016 edition
Post by: patric on March 16, 2016, 11:05:46 am
Quote


Police officer allegedly pepper-sprays passing motorcyclists

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/police-officer-allegedly-pepper-sprays-passing-mot/nqkdz/


Sorry for the drift, but I thought his excuse for tear-gassing a busy interstate highway was worthy of a closing footnote.

Marcus Hernandez said that he was sitting in the bed of the truck when he saw a cloud of the spray drifting toward him. “I got asthma, so I couldn’t breathe. It was pretty bad,” Hernandez explained. “I said, ‘Why you’d spray us?’ and he said, ‘Because I felt the bikes were too close to my vehicle.'”

Botello said that the officer then opened her passenger door and grabbed her friend’s cell phone, claiming that it was evidence in the case. “He snatched her phone without even asking for it. That’s when he started demanding everybody else’s,” she said.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/03/15/fort-worth-officer-on-leave-after-pepper-spray-video/