The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Stockholm owned the property on which the old furniture and lumber company occupied, but sold it to Michael Sager.

Sager, who sits on the Downtown Coordinating Council, is best known for his company Blue Dome Properties LLC, which has invested heavily in downtown. He purchased the proposed soup kitchen site from Stockholm through a different company, Bricks and Mortar LLC.

He defended the Iron Gate move Monday, saying the new building would be a positive for the neighborhood.

“I think it is a fabulous use of the property.” he said. “The architecture, the investment. … I think it is fabulous.”

He called those who would use the city’s most vulnerable population to spread fear “terribly petty.”

“I think there is plenty of crime that is not attributable to the homeless and the people in need,” Sager said.

Anyone have site plans / renderings for this? I've heard some of the opponents but haven't seen the actual plan.

Was that the old Reeves TV store?

Was that the old Reeves TV store?

So the guy that wants to sell them the building thinks it is a great idea?  Gee, tell me more.  Hey, how about this. Sager can float the loan to Iron Gate with a repayment plan when construction is finished. Iron Gate can pay itself a management fee from that money and not finish the project for more than a decade.

My attitude on this project is simple:

99% chance it hinders development of the area.
<snip>
#Iknowimahorribleperson

COUNTER PROPOSAL: why not move Iron Gate to the section of downtown already devoted to the down-on-their luck? The aforementioned warehouse district is under utilized and has low interest from developers. It is more convenient for the homeless population, should be cheaper land, and offers plenty of areas to park. Concentrate services t make it easier on everyone and, yes, to concentrate the objections (argue all you want, sketchy people cause objections for the purposes of development and perception. Doesn't mean they are bad people... and yes, the problem is with the beholder. But lets face reality.)

#Iknowimahorribleperson

I haven't put as much thought into it as you have, but I find myself agreeing with you! Imagine that!  :o

I guess #itooamahorribleperson

I always found it amazing that at one time Trinty had both Iron Gate and a day care operating in the same building - until they shut down the day care a few years ago.

Anyone here actually walk the streets and businesses at third and Peoria? It isn't the Pearl you're imagining.

Isn't that the point of the concern - the risk that locating Iron Gate here will ensure that the area stays in its current condition rather than improving along with the southern section.

Fair enough but the area has little in common with sixth and Peoria and the Kendall area. It sits next to the tracks and across from a machine shop and tons of commercial industrial within a half mile.
Converting it to gentrified hoods will be more difficult because of that. The same arguments were made by White City residents when a transitional home was proposed and they were unfounded. Also the current location hasn't diminished downtown development but moving it to the Moss ghetto likely impedes improvement nearby.
This isn't a terrible location to me.

It's three blocks to 6th and Peoria.

And I do think Iron Gate has been an impediment to development and is part of the reason why the Towercade and Tulsa Club buildings have been so difficult to develop. Both buildings should have been two of the first buildings to be converted to residential downtown and they remain empty with no plans in sight. Iron Gate being next door certainly is part of the reason so much damage has been done to the Tulsa Club by homeless people.

And I do think Iron Gate has been an impediment to development and is part of the reason why the Towercade and Tulsa Club buildings have been so difficult to develop. Both buildings should have been two of the first buildings to be converted to residential downtown and they remain empty with no plans in sight. Iron Gate being next door certainly is part of the reason so much damage has been done to the Tulsa Club by homeless people.

It doesn't mater where they go, it's going to be a fight.

Aquaman makes a great point that this is not in the "heart of the Pearl" but rather on the fringe in an area that is heavily industrial.  According to the measurement tool on Google Maps the Day Center is approx. 1,200 ft from The Tavern.  Iron Gate will be approx. 1,700 ft from The Phoenix.  Yet, the Brady District seems to be doing just fine.

Also, don't forget this is the same neighborhood group that strongly opposed a new QT at 11th & Utica.  So, maybe we should rename The Pearl, The NIMBY District.

If it comes down to the idea that poor people are bad for business, well that's just not a right way to think.

I'm not arguing that it is right. I'm arguing that it is accurate.

How much of a discount would they have to give you to live next to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter? 25%, 50%? I don't care if it is Iron Gate, the downtown Salvation Army, the Day Center for the Homeless... by being located in an area they do not help the development of that area. They are, in fact, bad for business. They are bad for image. Helping homeless people, and disadvantaged people in general, is good for humanity. Good for our society. It's good for the overall economy in the long run. But having sketchy looking people come and go is bad for business in the area.

Why does everyone jump to the conclusion that Iron Gate only serves mentally-ill and homeless?  I've been told by people that have volunteered there that a fair number of downtown works use their grocery services on a regular basis.

All it takes is one volunteer shift at a homeless shelter or social service agency to realize that many of those using social services look just like you.  Many aren't homeless.  Many work and have a roof over their head but their hourly wage just doesn't stretch far enough.

As an aside, Peoria isn't void of social service agencies.  The Family & Children's Services HQ sits on the front of the Central Park development and the Native American agency is just to the north of FCS.  Both have what many on this forum would describe as "undesirables" visiting throughout every day.  The reality is that FCS serves 1 in 6 Tulsans every year, proving my point that all walks of life need a social service agency at some point so don't be so quick to label all the clients of Iron Gate as mentally-ill homeless degenerates.

I don't think anyone is saying that "Iron Gate only serves mentally ill and homeless".   To quote an earlier post:

"The day center serves about 900 meals a day. 25% (their number) of the people they serve are homeless.  80% are male.  Statistically, 1/3 of area homeless have untreated serious mental illness. So that's 60 adult males with serious untreated mental illness coming, hanging around, and going - every day."

To discount this out of hand, or suggest that people in the area should not be concerned with this aspect of the Iron Gate users, is illogical.  In a perfect world, everybody would get along, but we don't live in that world and the real ramifications of this proposed move have to be considered in a rational manner. 

And for the record, I also have no skin in the game (other than I do frequent the Hodges Bend area and the Phoenix), and am ambivalent about the move.  It just seems that some of the advocates are arguing "what ought to be", rather than "what should be expected".
 

Just as some are arguing what could be with massive investment versus what really exists and it's current useful nature. They instead dwell on their worst experiences with drunks and renegades. No one has addressed what I asked. Is it wise to keep corraling undesirables in a ghetto downtown? And what kind of development are you expecting on a sliver of commercial land "nestled" between the tracks and 244?

Even a casual bike ride slowly through the area should convince most people that if not here.... Where?

How about just north of 244 right around there? NE/NW of downtown. Or just west of downtown. I think they could find a number of empty lots and that would service a different area while still staying close to downtown while keeping out of the main downtown areas being redeveloped.

I agree that intersection is shabby and doesn't seem like it's worth protecting when you see it, but adding that a couple blocks from Hodges Bend would ensure even more panhandlers hang out in East Village bothering people. Really creating a nice panhandling trail from Brady to 3rd & Peoria. I've had several near-violent/scary interactions with panhandlers over the years (mostly in LA) so don't really trust people being in an area for the sole purpose of begging and getting free food. Anything that encourages that it bad for the area.

Just as some are arguing what could be with massive investment versus what really exists and it's current useful nature. They instead dwell on their worst experiences with drunks and renegades. No one has addressed what I asked. Is it wise to keep corraling undesirables in a ghetto downtown? And what kind of development are you expecting on a sliver of commercial land "nestled" between the tracks and 244?

Even a casual bike ride slowly through the area should convince most people that if not here.... Where?

NW of downtown is an up and coming neighborhood and NE is OSU Tulsa and Evans Fintube. Sadly, the place near downtown with the most rundown property is due east.

Iron Gate is hosting a meeting at 6 p.m. Tuesday at its location in the basement of Trinity Episcopal Church, 501 S. Cincinnati Ave., so those who oppose the move can see the agency’s facility first hand.

The agency’s planned $9 million project to build a new headquarters at 302 S. Peoria Ave. is contingent on Board of Adjustment approval of zoning exceptions to allow for operation of the soup kitchen in an area zoned industrial.
The hearing is set for 1 p.m. Sept. 8 in the Tulsa City Council chambers, 175 E. Second St.

Anyone here actually walk the streets and businesses at third and Peoria? It isn't the Pearl you're imagining.

It's three blocks to 6th and Peoria.

And I do think Iron Gate has been an impediment to development and is part of the reason why the Towercade and Tulsa Club buildings have been so difficult to develop. Both buildings should have been two of the first buildings to be converted to residential downtown and they remain empty with no plans in sight. Iron Gate being next door certainly is part of the reason so much damage has been done to the Tulsa Club by homeless people.

Please tell me which property you'd like them to buy that is near the existing "social services corridor" in the NW corner of the IDL.

It doesn't mater where they go, it's going to be a fight.

Aquaman makes a great point that this is not in the "heart of the Pearl" but rather on the fringe in an area that is heavily industrial.  According to the measurement tool on Google Maps the Day Center is approx. 1,200 ft from The Tavern.  Iron Gate will be approx. 1,700 ft from The Phoenix.  Yet, the Brady District seems to be doing just fine.

Also, don't forget this is the same neighborhood group that strongly opposed a new QT at 11th & Utica.  So, maybe we should rename The Pearl, The NIMBY District.

I get the feeling that the daily "homeless parades" through downtown's entertainment districts are vastly overstated.  If there is ever a need to help people get from the day center to Iron Gate, I'm sure some philanthropists can arrange a bus or other form of help, especially on very hot or cold days.  Iron Gate also isn't limited to the homeless.  There are many poor people in town that use their services and it will be more accessible at the new location it seems.  Also, as has been mentioned, it's on the fringe of the Pearl District, by the tracks, in an industrial area, and I don't see it negatively affecting the development of 11th and 6th street corridors.  If it comes down to the idea that poor people are bad for business, well that's just not a right way to think.

Ultimate irony for a lack of parking to be cited as the reason.  If it had been just about any other type of business the Pearl District folks would have been clamoring for the lack of parking to be approved.

Ultimate irony for a lack of parking to be cited as the reason.  If it had been just about any other type of business the Pearl District folks would have been clamoring for the lack of parking to be approved.

Years ago I contacted Iron Gate.

I asked that they ask their guests to approach downtown workers (my wife) in a less menacing manner asking for/demanding money.

(The company she worked for eventually moved out of downtown)

I also asked if there was a way they could use less Styrofoam containers when handing out the food.  (the containers littered the area for blocks)

I was accidentally kept on the email thread that followed and saw the responses by Irongate personnel and the church. 

From then on, I have no reason to support Irongate or the church.

I heard that Mr. Saunders from your board lost his cool at one of the neighborhood meetings and raised his voice in response to a question about why Iron Gate was not looking for a location closer to the Day Center and the other social services that also serve many of your guests. I was told he got a little bent out of shape and remarked, "So you want to turn that side of downtown into the ghetto". If Iron Gate moves to 3rd & Peoria, what types of businesses will want to purchase land across the street from them? No retail or restaurant for sure! Maybe a blood bank or something similar will find value in the land across the street.

This comment is very telling. It also echoes a comment I read on the TW:

After reading those, the Iron Gate leaders sound rude and out of touch. At least he admitted they will turn the Pearl District into a ghetto. I am glad it was denied:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/iron-gate-move-to-pearl-district-denied-at-tulsa-board/article_43da0f72-ebb0-5af4-9d32-71f507fd0abc.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/iron-gate-move-to-pearl-district-denied-at-tulsa-board/article_43da0f72-ebb0-5af4-9d32-71f507fd0abc.html)

BTW, this thought occurred to me as I drove by Admiral and Peoria the other day. Upscale bars, restaurants, lofts and walled off residential is not always the "highest and best use" of a tract of land. This particular area works quite well as industrial/commercial.

I don't interpret that as rude as much as frustration at the idea that we should just shove all the poor people in a corner of downtown by the jail and keep them from everywhere else.  He's not saying that Iron Gate would cause a ghetto, but that if the idea is to put all of the services in one small area, then it could turn into a ghetto since nobody else will accept it in their area.  Basically out of sight, out of mind.  For people who have strongly advocated for the poor, that idea is pretty offensive.  Having services throughout town not only help to try and integrate with the community, it also recognizes that not all of the people who use the service are homeless people panhandling downtown and that there is need all throughout the community.

Nevertheless, it looks like the Pearl won their battle to put it in someone else's backyard.  Congratulations I guess.  I'm sure that some people were against the move and also strongly in support of the poor and were truly motivated by parking and zoning and plans, but many were motivated purely by nimbyism, several of whom openly admit it, and the others are going to be grouped into the nimby category whether it's fair or not.  It looks like they won't appeal and will start looking elsewhere so its over for now.  Good luck finding a place that isn't going to raise the same ruckus.  Now for all of this idealistic utopia of the Pearl District, and especially 3rd and Peoria, to come to fruition.  I'm sure all the current residents with run down houses and living paycheck to paycheck will be super happy with all the exciting developments that wouldn't have been possible if they had allowed a multi-million dollar facility to be built to help more poor people.

Some of the most interesting places to visit in other cities are the old industrial areas where abandoned factories have been repurposed and turned into awesome thriving businesses (Minneapolis has a lot and London near the Borough Market and Camden Town are 2 great examples). The Brady District was very industrial before it started to turn around and it still has a sizeable industrial/commercial presence. One of the first things they did to improve Brady was removing a liquor store and homeless hangouts. There are dozens of businesses which have moved to the Pearl area already.

Want to reduce poverty and help those nearby? Improving the area and keeping the momentum going will help bring in even more investment help downtown and the Pearl and should produce more jobs in the area. When those businesses thrive, they can bring in more employees (See Marshall with their vast array of brews and their tasting room right now!). Marshall is constructing a new tasting room. So is Dead Armadillo. That brings money to the area for both construction and jobs. Money that might otherwise be going to big corporate chains and products.

That's not entirely correct. Brady had lots of abandoned and underperforming industrial/commercial/warehouses from an architecturally interesting period of time. Third and Peoria has warehousing, welding supplies, labor finders, manufacturing, machining, paint suppliers, electrical suppliers, industrial services, fabricators etc. currently providing low overhead to the operators and tax dollars to the community. I can't place a liquor store in the area until you get to Whittier Square (I grew up in the area). They are not architecturally or historically contributing. They are just old.

When Sharp bought the old Fox Hotel building at Main and Brady in the early ‘80s, it was being used as a liquor store—a very successful liquor store. It was the biggest seller of cheap Night Train wine west of the Mississippi.

"It's hard to exaggerate how bad it was. I would come down in the morning, and I officed in the back, in the old liquor store office when I first started, and I would scoop people out of the way," Sharp said.

And when he hung a closed sign on the liquor store's front door, Sharp, a college history major and disenchanted attorney, probably sparked the Brady District's long, slow comeback.

What is the right place? I see panhandlers at 31st and Memorial near the hotels. In fact they are all over the city. Why does it have to be downtown?

RDJ - I think they can move anywhere in the IDL. So long as it doesn't require a zoning change, the neighbors can be mad but I think they can go in. But, again, I cant fault people for NIMBY here. If they moved in next to just about anything, it will negatively effect occupancy/rent and property value.  Even if an owner has no problem with the situation, financially they are in a difficult spot.  You'll notice Sager didn't offer the 1st Street Lofts property... (that's a joke, a bad one)


Lets look at the bigger issue:

Iron Gate raises more $1,300,000 a year.
2013 Annual report: http://www.irongatetulsa.org/IronGate/assets/File/IG_AnnualReport2013.pdf

Tulsa Day Center does almost $4 million.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=9174#.VfGEsPZViko )

John 3:16 does $7.5 million a year.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=10102#.VfGFPvZViko

The Commuity Foodbank does $31mil a year.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=12139#.VfGFgfZViko

Tulsa Area United way does $25mil.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4590#.VfGFnfZViko

Add in Churches, the Tulsa Mental Health Association, the Dream Center, tribal and Indian programs, HUD, the VA, and other governmental programs...

Now, the Day Center and John 3:16 focus on the homeless (John 3:16 has some great youth programs too). Community Foodbank and the United Way do a ton of different things, that include the homeless and not. But for every dollar they don't allocate to that issue, a Church, other non-profit, or government agency does. That's a TON of money. And according to Charity Navigator, they do a good job (mostly four stars for those that are ranked!).

At the last count, Tulsa has just over 700 homeless people (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/number-of-chronically-homeless-in-tulsa-declines-for-third-straight/article_b4ca893a-87d4-5df3-8ecd-16342cb5bd1e.html). The vast majority "situationally homeless" and ~90 "chronically homeless." A new teacher in Oklahoma makes $31,600. 700 teachers collectively make $22mil a year... working as trained college graduates.

By the numbers, it appears very likely that we spend more than that supporting the homeless population in Tulsa each year. And, of course, homeless doesn't mean "zero income," lazy, or worthless. So we are really spending that to augment the living situation of homeless people. You can get a two bedroom apartment in Tulsa for $600. 350 of those is $2.5 million a year. Homelessness over?  We must be doing it wrong. I know drug and mental health issues make it more complicated than that...  but, well, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around the issues.

I'm not indicting the homeless people, the organizations/people helping, or people who think they don't need to help. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it, thinking aloud (metaphorically jerk!).  There has to be a better way.

Exactly.

It's far more expensive to support someone on the streets. It's more cost effective and much more humane to HOUSE them. Keep them safe, give them access to services to help them get better.

Great idea and one I completely agree with.

The Pearl District wants housing, right?  What if Iron Gate said, "you know what, you're right, this isn't the place for a soup kitchen.  Let's give a big chunk of our homeless clients a place to live.  Can we buy this land over here in the Pearl District and put in a 300 unit apartment complex with subsidized housing for homeless?"

At $50k a door that is about a $15MM investment in the Pearl District.

I would guarantee that gets the same level of push back the soup kitchen did.  See the small unit at Admiral & Yale that Conan has referenced for an example.  I lived in the Turner Park neighborhood at the time and a vocal minority fought that project with the same fear mongering used by other districts.

Im not sure RDJ. Push back for sure... But probably not the same level.

Aquaman: what social services are at 28th and Harvard?  I mean, I love the Colony... But I wouldn't call it social services. Unless you meant 28th Place - because the bike shop IS a social service.

But that particular development has reportedly had NO impact on the area. That's kind of the point. Treat the homeless as human, give them a roof and food and access to medical and behavioral care and they will be healthier and less destructive to themselves and the areas around them.

If I was to choose a location it would be the Storey Wrecker site. It's right by OSU Medical and DHS. Put ~200 apartments there for the chronically homeless, drug addicted and people newly off the street and then smaller housing complexes around the city for the people in need of permanent housing like the disabled or stabilized mentally ill and then other housing complexes for people transitioning to normal housing from being homeless, kind of halfway houses once they have jobs and income but still aren’t ready to live on their own.

Im not sure RDJ. Push back for sure... But probably not the same level.

Aquaman: what social services are at 28th and Harvard?  I mean, I love the Colony... But I wouldn't call it social services. Unless you meant 28th Place - because the bike shop IS a social service.

Exactly.

It's far more expensive to support someone on the streets. It's more cost effective and much more humane to HOUSE them. Keep them safe, give them access to services to help them get better.

We can always try the Oklahoma City method.

http://www.ibtimes.com/homeless-bus-ticket-programs-across-nation-offer-little-accountability-poor-housing-2016812
For years, Oklahoma City tackled its homeless problem by handing out bus tickets to other cities to its down-and-out residents.

DT, Its their mission. Consider that they are charged with feeding, clothing, aiding the less fortunate. Not judging whether they are mentally ill, physically unfit, drug addicted or unwilling to learn or work. It is a biblical mission. Social work is a different mission that may have its origins in religion but is primarily a betterment effort. Thus Salvation Army and Iron Gate are saving souls and doing the Lord's work. Family and Children's Services and other quasi-government organizations are trying to manage these deficits and help rebuild broken lives.

That's what I mean by the difficulty of having organizations with different funding for their missions come together in a cohesive effort.

Exactly.

It's far more expensive to support someone on the streets. It's more cost effective and much more humane to HOUSE them. Keep them safe, give them access to services to help them get better.

DT, Its their mission. Consider that they are charged with feeding, clothing, aiding the less fortunate. Not judging whether they are mentally ill, physically unfit, drug addicted or unwilling to learn or work. It is a biblical mission. Social work is a different mission that may have its origins in religion but is primarily a betterment effort. Thus Salvation Army and Iron Gate are saving souls and doing the Lord's work. Family and Children's Services and other quasi-government organizations are trying to manage these deficits and help rebuild broken lives.

That's what I mean by the difficulty of having organizations with different funding for their missions come together in a cohesive effort.

We can always try the Oklahoma City method.

http://www.ibtimes.com/homeless-bus-ticket-programs-across-nation-offer-little-accountability-poor-housing-2016812
For years, Oklahoma City tackled its homeless problem by handing out bus tickets to other cities to its down-and-out residents.

Nothing to see hear! This doesn't affect nearby businesses, well-being or safety of the neighborhood at all!

/Sarcasm tag might be needed

My office is next door. My well-being and safety are unphased.

My office is next door. My well-being and safety are unphased.

My office is next door. My well-being and safety are unphased.

Futhermore a 12 year old was one of those! And it was at 9am! How messed up could a situation possibly be and some will act like this is "no big deal because I am not personally affected!"

having more people doing drugs around where you live and work will statistically increase the likelihood of bad things happening

I didn't say it was a big deal, but people getting high across the street at work affects me about as much as the house of TU students who were stoned nightly across the street from my house.


See also Colorado.

If iron gate wasn't dealing with a bunch of half-dressed people hanging out in a parking lot because their building is too small this would help prevent it too. Homeless or not, you have a bunch of people milling around in a parking lot for hours, dumb things will happen. See any high school.

I didn't say it was a big deal, but people getting high across the street at work affects me about as much as the house of TU students who were stoned nightly across the street from my house.


See also Colorado.

If iron gate wasn't dealing with a bunch of half-dressed people hanging out in a parking lot because their building is too small this would help prevent it too. Homeless or not, you have a bunch of people milling around in a parking lot for hours, dumb things will happen. See any high school.

Actual pot =/= this "synthetic marijuana" crap

When I spend all of my money on drugs, it's a good thing there is a place in downtown that will feed me. I don't have to make a choice between being high or eating.

Nothing to see hear! This doesn't affect nearby businesses, well-being or safety of the neighborhood at all!

/Sarcasm tag might be needed

Actually, it doesn't. Adjacent to Iron Gate, Moss Correctional and DayCare for the Homeless sits.....Brady District. Maple Ridge often has people obviously affected in some way walking the streets muttering to themselves, carrying skateboards and bags and sometimes yelling out. Both areas seem to be doing well. Cherry Street has its share as well as the Pearl.

People on K-2 are pretty helpless as they flail their arms and wriggle on the pavement. I have seen its results up close. Unsightly but not so dangerous. Meth and crack are way different.

I don't apologize for their behavior, but they are fellow humans and deserve some compassion and forgiveness. I do take issue with the idea that putting more of them in the DL Moss concentration camp area by consigning the Iron Gate to that area is any real attempt at solutions or would make downtowners safer.

I'll send you pics royalty free.

Ever get the feeling we're just f-ing doomed?

Ever get the feeling we're just f-ing doomed?

I got this for the Zombie Apocalypse..............

http://blog.1aauto.com/2011/07/18/steampunk-zombie-apocalypse-survival-vehicle-for-sale/ (http://blog.1aauto.com/2011/07/18/steampunk-zombie-apocalypse-survival-vehicle-for-sale/)

Thats why I just ordered a nice Katana off amazon......

I got this for the Zombie Apocalypse..............

http://blog.1aauto.com/2011/07/18/steampunk-zombie-apocalypse-survival-vehicle-for-sale/ (http://blog.1aauto.com/2011/07/18/steampunk-zombie-apocalypse-survival-vehicle-for-sale/)

One of these?
http://www.diamond-air.at/single-engine-aircraft/da20i-katana.html

You will change your mind after they have chewed your face off.......!!!

Where do you live....???..I can show you my Katana and check out your vehicle.......

A 5-minute cellphone video shot by a homeless man shows the streets around the PSO building (Old Central HS) littered with convulsing OD victims, so it might be a bit unfair to point the finger at Iron Gate soup kitchen.  Almost all local media falsely repeating its "synthetic marijuana" while 23 pointed out that while K2 was at one time supposed to mimic marijuana, its actually not related at all.

Yea this kind of thing is great for retail business, especially for one that has a large portion of its sales being children's toys and books.  "Mommy mommy after here can we go down the street to the candy store or to get ice cream?" "Sure Suzy and Billy, but just be careful and step over the convulsing homeless people." 

An undisclosed location in the PNW, and I have the coordinates for all of the old Atlas, Titan, Minuteman Missile sites and the old DEW Line Stations from the Aleutian Islands to Nova Scotia along the northern border of Canada.

We need to get together......!!

Or PSO either. If they would just convulse somewhere more, well, out of public site or suburban or something.

Public convulsing...it's so untoward.

Its odd isn't it? Dozens of people fall to the ground convulsing, flailing, and requiring medical attention and our response is ..."not so good for downtown PR or retail bidness" instead of genuine concern for an assault perpetrated by drug dealers that may extend to all over town.

Of course when you see the same thing on a Friday night around 1am next to a string of bars in Brady? That's just the nature of adult partying. The difference being few people see the staggering drunks at that time of morning and its old news to the press unless one dies.

Its odd isn't it? Dozens of people fall to the ground convulsing, flailing, and requiring medical attention and our response is ..."not so good for downtown PR or retail bidness" instead of genuine concern for an assault perpetrated by drug dealers that may extend to all over town.

Of course when you see the same thing on a Friday night around 1am next to a string of bars in Brady? That's just the nature of adult partying. The difference being few people see the staggering drunks at that time of morning and its old news to the press unless one dies.

Its odd isn't it? Dozens of people fall to the ground convulsing, flailing, and requiring medical attention and our response is ..."not so good for downtown PR or retail bidness" instead of genuine concern for an assault perpetrated by drug dealers that may extend to all over town.

Of course when you see the same thing on a Friday night around 1am next to a string of bars in Brady? That's just the nature of adult partying. The difference being few people see the staggering drunks at that time of morning and its old news to the press unless one dies.

The part that bothers me is the idea that the tracks at 3rd and Peoria is some sort of urban mecca that would be destroyed if you let poor folks in.  If this had happened at 3rd and Peoria it would not have harmed what's going on at 6th or 11th street.  You think that the Vault, or Elote, or Tavolo, or the Courtyard, or the Daily Grill are going to suffer because of what happened at the current location?  Don't think so.  The idea that we need to isolate poor people to the area downtown by the jail is what bothers me about this whole situation.  

Ill have to dig for the references, but I believe the stated intention was something along the lines of  "placing social services closer to the people who need them"

Correct.

The question  shouldn't be on where to choose a location for people to be convulsing on sidewalks, but how to keep that from happening at all.

1, we need to provide judgement free housing to the homeless, 2, we need to have social services easily available to the residents of that housing that do things like help them get clean. We should try to prevent the OD, and failing that, have the OD happen in a safer location for the victim than a sidewalk.

Well Townsend, I have been there. Experienced the sight of passed out people in Brady, spewing their guts onto the street, peeing on buildings, acting a fool, stumbling in high heels till they collapsed and rambling incoherently. Both from alcohol and/or drugs. Neither group started out wanting to get sloppy drunk or OD'd. They just wanted to have a little fun or escape the dreary reality of their lives. Make note, It is just as illegal to be public drunk or urinate in public as it is to be OD'd and convulsing.

I drove a party bus throughout the Brady, East End, Brookside, Cherry and the suburbs. It was fun. Fun to watch anyway. Just reporting the facts. You folks are making the judgments.

Did we just come full circle here....?

If there are people who won't make use of the currently available resources, how are we to get them to make use of other (new) available resources?

Will it be a forced situation?  Like a jail sentence equivalent for being homeless?

By judgement free, is it meant there are no rules/regulations/behavioral requirements to living there?  And if there are rules, isn't that kinda the whole point of why they don't make use of the currently available resources (that do have rules) ??

It is not forced. The rules are pretty basic and they don't have to quit drugs/drinking to get a home. The idea is a home precedes being able to get sober and become a part of society. One article said ""There are a few 'trappers and hunters' out there who really do choose what they call freedom." but for about 85% percent stick with it. There are still plenty of problems, but having them out in the streets just makes it worse (like the story which got this discussion going).

Utah has cut chronic homelessness by 91%! Furthermore, it actually saves money. The $8000/year they spend on housing is partially paid by section 8 and partially paid by charities. The burden on the system is lowered and the big savings are in healthcare/emergency response costs. Jail is another large cost.
 
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865627447/Chronic-homelessness-in-Utah-down-91-percent-under-decade-long-Housing-First-initiative.html?pg=all (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865627447/Chronic-homelessness-in-Utah-down-91-percent-under-decade-long-Housing-First-initiative.html?pg=all)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/housing-first-solution-to-homelessness-utah (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/housing-first-solution-to-homelessness-utah)

Cities in the US need to do something about this. After the success Utah has had, I think Tulsa needs to follow suit. It is a proven model at this point after ~10+ years. Tulsa has just over 700 homeless. Based on the amount donated to homeless charities, providing housing would be feasible, especially considering section 8 vouchers and other grants available for this type of thing. If anyone knows of any organization pursuing this sort of thing in Tulsa, please let me know.

I was talking about this particular occurrence.  Were you there?

I've seen the same things you've seen.

Aquaman - You need to get off your high horse and relax on this a bit.  I've made no judgement.  I've only said what I thought.  I'd rather things like this didn't occur.

Railing on me for this is crap and you need to back the hell off.

Many of the patrons of Irongate drive from their homes to come and get the free breakfest. Not saying they don't need it, just pointing out that Irongate isn't just feeding the homeless.

I don't think their proposed spot at 3rd and Peoria takes their parking needs into account.
By the way, there are people squatting in the building that is currently sitting empty at 3rd and Peoria. I can smell them smoking weed when I jog past and they have a bunch of cots and matresses set up.

By the way, there are people squatting in the building that is currently sitting empty at 3rd and Peoria. I can smell them smoking weed when I jog past and they have a bunch of cots and matresses set up.

Well at least it's not zoned for that, because THAT would really drag the neighborhood down.

Too bad the Pearl District didn't get Form Based Code...I'm told by a local real estate attorney Iron Gate would have had no issue moving into the property if the zoning and code had been updated the way the district folks wanted.

I also heard they could have zoned commercial, no-one would have known, and construction would have started by now.

TulsaNow and others urged them to be more up front and transparent not realizing that covert and backhanded was the only way to get it built.

I was among those encouraging my friends on the board to meet with the Pearl District folks about the project.  I was wrong in my impression that the compassion many of those in that area show in their personal lives would spill over into their real estate and business dealings.  Where I was most wrong was in underestimating the resistance that would come from the "East Village" folks.  From what I've gathered the ringleader of the resistance was a business owner inside the IDL.  Never thought that would happen, but you never know.

I think you've stumble on another T-Shirt idea...Tulsa, Covert & Backhanded Is the Only Way.  You should start selling these at Blake Ewing's t-shirt shop.

Blake Ewing was very vocal in supporting Iron Gate's decision to move there. During the city counsel meeting, he showed full support.

Too bad the Pearl District didn't get Form Based Code...I'm told by a local real estate attorney Iron Gate would have had no issue moving into the property if the zoning and code had been updated the way the district folks wanted.

Much like the county wanted to slip a juvenile jail in the middle of a northside commercial rejuvenation plan?

Much like the county wanted to slip a juvenile jail in the middle of a northside commercial rejuvenation plan?

You mean by bringing professional employment to the area? 

"Jailer" is professional employment?  Oh, I forgot about Jail Cook and Jail Nurse and the guy that keeps the $5/minute phone system running.

Right. Those judges, attorneys, law clerks and teachers are going to move into the neighborhoods and help upgrade the community. Like they did the Gilcrease facility.

Iron Gate officials eyeing new location downtown

Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2016 2:11 pm
By Mike Averill Tulsa World | 0 comments
Officials with Iron Gate say they have found “the perfect site” to build a new soup kitchen and emergency grocery pantry.
The agency, which is currently housed at Trinity Episcopal Church, is looking at a 1.5-acre spot between Seventh and Eighth streets and Elgin and Kenosha avenues in downtown Tulsa to build a new location that would house the soup kitchen, pantry and administrative offices.

Not the worst placement but will make the Nordam development a tougher sell on this side unless they have the rights to close off that street and make it a gated community (which I doubt).
 

Just seen on the news that Iron Gate is trying to build on 7th and Kenosha/Elgin now.. ???

http://www.fox23.com/news/iron-gate-plans-new-location/458662530

Just seen on the news that Iron Gate is trying to build on 7th and Kenosha/Elgin now.. ???

http://www.fox23.com/news/iron-gate-plans-new-location/458662530

Currently [Iron Gate is] right in the heart of the Deco District next to the soon-to-be-renovated Tulsa Club...

Trinity Episcopal is not in the Deco District.  Currently, Iron Gate is not in the Deco District.  The current location is east of the Deco District.

Literally right across the street.
 

True.  The Tulsa Club Building is literally on the eastern edge of the Deco District.  Iron Gate is not right in the heart of the Deco District.  Iron Gate is not in the Deco District at all.

Literally and figuratively, the heart of the Deco District is somewhere within the Deco District, in my opinion.

Iron Gate's current location could be described as "near the heart of the Deco District." 

Map from Deco District's website:
(http://decodistricttulsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/bokcenterparkingmap2.jpg)
   

So amusing that the DCC and downtown developers who fought so hard against overlays ("How DARE you try to take away my god-given property rights!") ("Downtown is so valuable because there are no rules limiting what you can build...") will now be the ones fighting this development.

The property now proposed for Iron Gate sits between multilane, one-way streets that provide highway access into and out of downtown.

Another concern is that the proposed site is in an area that [owner of two nearby buildings Don] Maynard said was intended to be primarily residential.

Turley would be a good place...

So the location of where homeless people are fed is moved literally two to three blocks and everyone who has opposed any sort of oversight on their own development loses their sh!t? 

So the location of where homeless people are fed is moved literally two to three blocks and everyone who has opposed any sort of oversight on their own development loses their sh!t? 

Not everyone, but some people. While I do chuckle at their hypocrisy, I can't blame the NIMBYism.

"Now that they've put that soup kitchen in, my apartments have all been leased, my commercial space leased out, foot traffic for retail shoppers is up, and it has doubled the property value in the neighborhood," said no one ever.

The soup kitchen already exists in their neighborhood and people transit that area every day going to and from Iron Gate.  It’s already in their back yard.  That’s what lit me up about this. 

It is in the same general area, yes. But just down the street and immediately between two buildings I own are two different things (I don't personally own those buildings, just an example). Particularly downtown, a few blocks away can make a huge difference (the difference between 2nd and Elgin and 1st and Lanson is probably $2mil per acre). I live near 31st and Harvard. I am near the payday loan place at that intersection. Just a blocks away. If they wanted to move right next door to me, it would be a significant change to me. I'm also a few blocks away from a tattoo parlor, a bar, a mechanics shop, etc. etc. etc.

Most of the commute to Iron Gate is coming from the homeless shelters around David L Moss, a few from other soup kitchens north and west of Iron Gate. Little, if any of the foot traffic to Iron Gate would currently go by this area. And few, if any, vagrants currently loiter around it. Iron Gate, where it now stands, has minimal impact on Elliot Nelsons new apartments, the new corporate HQ, or the planned development of the Nordam site. If you owned a stake in any of those, would you want a soup kitchen to move closer to you? Note, not a lot of new development is going in near the soup kitchens Brady.

I'm not arguing the merits of the placement and I'm certainly not criticizing the intent of Iron Gate - but if I lived, worked, or owned property at a location that was putting in a soup kitchen I would assume it would be a negative for the area.  Iron Gate will do all they can to mitigate it, and it might be fine. But I can't blame the stakeholders for being nervous.

Pretty hard to escape transients within the IDL. It seems they are multiplying and expanding all over the city though. Even at 51st and Lewis in a huge intersection with multiple turn lanes and no really good mooching, I watched as a guy walked in and out of traffic with his story. Almost got hit twice.

No business or homeowner wants to be around them, but the reality is they are here and not going anywhere till the economy or treatment centers expand along with them. Or until the Gathering Place opens up.  ;D

Hard to think what a soup kitchen next to my apartment would do to benefit me.

Free meals?

Iron Gate’s existing location has not stopped anyone from investing in renovations in the immediate area...
 

Pretty hard to escape transients within the IDL. It seems they are multiplying and expanding all over the city though. Even at 51st and Lewis in a huge intersection with multiple turn lanes and no really good mooching, I watched as a guy walked in and out of traffic with his story. Almost got hit twice.

No business or homeowner wants to be around them, but the reality is they are here and not going anywhere till the economy or treatment centers expand along with them. Or until the Gathering Place opens up.  ;D

It's called living in a city.  If you want complete isolation from homeless, move to an affluent suburb in a big city that shields its citizens from reality.  Otherwise, this is life.

Absolutely. And its not a totally bad thing either to see life different than your own occasionally. Nothing is more fearful to me than walled in, antiseptic looking developments where all the roofs are the same and the only pecking order is determined by how many garage doors you have!

We could lessen the impact of an Oklahoma style recession (cycling oil, moralistic leaders, poor education outcomes) by investing in treatments centers, rehabilitation centers etc. But we are too scared that it is just their own lack of ambition and will power that put them on the streets rather than victims of economic climate change. So, it is life in Oklahoma.

Actually, the bigger issue is that just like the NIMBY principle, you have the NOOMP (not out of my pocket) thinking as well. Everybody wants better treatment facilities for the homeless and the mentally ill, but no one wants to pay for it with out of pocket/tax funds and expects the gov't to take care of it. The last time they did there was such an uproar, deservedly so, because of the shabby, criminal and inhumane negligence at the facilities the public demanded reform, and the gov't just pulled the plug.

To get some of these people help, you have to get a court order and make sure you're not violating their civil rights, and basically with the lack of funds it's just a revolving door of sending them in and giving them the minimum level and sending them back out. (wash/rinse,/repeat, wash/rinse/repeat)

Can't say I disagree. Its a good description of what happened and what's happening. I'd like to see some optimism and some tactics as to what we can do to combat the problem. I don't think we even want to pay for those studies either. Perhaps the Filipino method came from the same process.
 

Quick question... Why do they have to go through the board of adjustments in the first place?  I thought you could put most anything anywhere downtown and thats the way, as Ponder put it, the property owners want it.

I really wish we had more mental health services.  Why don't the churches help with that? And where are all the "We want lower taxes and less government doing things" people stepping in to take care of this problem.  We have the low over all taxes so they must now have lots of free money and or time to give to help.

Sadly, we probably won't get more.  It is the huge problem that goes across so many lines in our society, affecting literally everyone, but always pushed into a corner to try to not notice.

Many of the churches I see are doing some of what they could be doing.  Too often I see a focus on being the Church "about" Jesus Christ rather than the Church "of" Jesus Christ.  And big TV megachurches.... well, they are what they are....

Salvation Army is the single biggest, most notable exception to this I have found - my preferred organization as I have harped on repeatedly.  (I know there are others because I have friends who talk about their organizations.)  I have attended services a few times and God bless them, but it was soooo boring I couldn't stay awake!  There has to be a 'balance' between message and entertainment...  But the "of" part they do - there is none better!  Anywhere in the world!!

But even SA cannot cover more than a fraction of what is needed.  The hypocrisy behind the Big Lie told by the RWRE - in this case the Right Wing Religious Extremists - is that they really DON'T care about solutions to societal issues.  They want their tax incentives/cuts/breaks.  They want more power/control.  Because IF they were truly behind what they profess about "compassionate conservatism" they would understand (which they do, but don't want to admit) that a governmental entity is the only thing we have in place to address the scope of these kind of problems.  

And it really is even more amazing how much they fight against programs to help with this type of thing AT THE SAME TIME working SOOOOO hard to turn us into a theocracy!!  10 Commandments on the Capital grounds type of thing...  Push their prayers onto all the children in schools....  So, since their church is unable/unwilling to give enough help to make serious improvements now, what will happen when their church IS our government??  Well, the problems will become even worse.



To everyone else, sorry about this thread drift.

From my own experience living in Phoenix and working with the church that I attended with my ex, while we did things like providing meals near homeless shelters a few times a year, Thanksgiving/Christmas/Valentines and a couple of others, we had no way of providing a leg up to the people we fed. There was fellowship and praying for those that needed help, but other than giving a hot meal, clothes, a spiritual message or feeling, we couldn't do anything else. It made us feel good to make a difference, but it was only a few hours on a very few days and we knew that we couldn't do more.

My ex when she was going to University of Phoenix to get her Bachelor of Business wrote a paper about setting up essentially a recovery center where the homeless could register and get help and have a safe place to stay, to give them  a chance to improve themselves. It was a center that would issue an ID to the person as a resident there, and provide them with an address, help them build a resume, help them clean up for interviews. and give them counseling on personal issues, and help them move forward with their lives. It had strict guidelines that they had to abide by if they truly wanted to move forward, and the places would give them a stable environment to get mail, and have a stable point of contact.

While working with Salvation Army and other types of organizations it would need further funding, and one that I thought of was a progressive tax (yeah, I know, don't tax me for someone else) that could be an extra $150.00/year for those making $50k to $60k a year, and then incrementally above that. The thing is it would have to be a legislation tax without any pork, riders, provisions, exceptions, inclusions, exclusions, by the way, I need, my constituents need, just by chance, oh by the way, crap involved. And as for providing mental and physical health, a required residency of graduates to work with senior doctors as part of their progression.

Am I asking too much? 

It must be nice to live in a world with such clarity and all of society’s ills and failures can be laid at the feet of Republicans, conservatives and Christians, and especially conservative Christian Republicans.

In the past few years I’ve traveled to New York City, Washington DC, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Las Vegas, and New Orleans and each of those cities has far worse problems of homelessness and mentally ill transients than Tulsa.  Each of those cities is and has been for a long time under Democratic control and are in states lead almost exclusively by Democrats.  It seems to me liberals and Democrats don’t have any more idea how to solve this problem than do Republicans or Christians.

Organizations like Iron Gate do noble work in providing food to the hungry.  Someone stated they do so in a “nonjudgmental way.”  However, there is a fine line between providing food in a nonjudgmental way and enabling the continuation of the dreary and marginalized life so many of these folks live.  Providing food to the hungry is easy, attacking the reasons for the hunger is hard.  Because of this, I don’t begrudge Iron Gate for taking the path it does, but it is also why I support organizations like The Salvation Army and John 3:16 Mission that do more than just provide physical sustenance, but try to change the conditions causing the problem.

As for the location, I think it would be better to locate Iron Gate on the edge of downtown rather than where it is now (if it has to be located downtown).  However, sandwiching it between a highway on and off ramp does not make a lot of sense to me.  This location seems to have a real risk of danger to its clients and a risk of creating significant traffic problems for commuters.

But if Iron Gate brings its constituency, I foresee that park starting to look like River parks between 11th and 19th. Which is why I stopped running that area. They were hard core drunks, often stumbling around, arguing with each other, occupying all the good spots and leaving their clothes, beer cans, cigarettes behind them. Proximity to the river hides some of them. God help them, but if given a choice, I see too much of that every day. I just want to run a path and relax in natures beauty.

Oh, you are so right on this piece.  I am not sure how/when the momentum started on that section of trail, but it is ridiculous.   Early this Spring it wasn't too bad, but lately it has been overrun.   I bike early in the morning mostly, and multiple times this Summer there people had made campsites in the middle of the bike lanes.  I had to veer over to the running side to go around them.  Even biking, there were a few encounters that were "less than courteous".  I would definitely avoid that area, particularly early and late, if I were a runner.

 

I will bring yours and Aqua's concerned up at RPA's user advisory committee meeting tomorrow and see if A) they are aware of a worsening problem and B) what they can/intend to do about it.

I've had near collisions with drunks on the SWB bridge before but not really that bad up to 21st other than all the usual wanderers in the open area around Elwood's.

Considering the newest proposed location is so near to Central Park and the Townhomes there, I'm surprised there isn't a tremendous backlash against it. Central Park is my favorite right now because it is so pretty, so unused by outsiders to the area and only slightly attended by homeless. The ones there are pretty considerate and hang near the north side of the park.

But if Iron Gate brings its constituency, I foresee that park starting to look like River parks between 11th and 19th. Which is why I stopped running that area. They were hard core drunks, often stumbling around, arguing with each other, occupying all the good spots and leaving their clothes, beer cans, cigarettes behind them. Proximity to the river hides some of them. God help them, but if given a choice, I see too much of that every day. I just want to run a path and relax in natures beauty.

Please don't judge me, I am just noting reality. Central Park will change.

Oh, you are so right on this piece.  I am not sure how/when the momentum started on that section of trail, but it is ridiculous.   Early this Spring it wasn't too bad, but lately it has been overrun.   I bike early in the morning mostly, and multiple times this Summer there people had made campsites in the middle of the bike lanes.  I had to veer over to the running side to go around them.  Even biking, there were a few encounters that were "less than courteous".  I would definitely avoid that area, particularly early and late, if I were a runner.

 

It's Centennial Park, not Central Park. And there are homeless people there every single day. It's a public park and they have every right to use it.

That happens when you have a community that just complains about homelessness instead of being progressive enough to fix it. Not you individually but as a collective we've failed miserably.

The ones that gather near Elwoods don't seem to be a problem, except that they sometimes seem to occupy the park area there and that (to me) seems to intrude too much on children's use of that space.   Where I had issues was more up between the bridge and about 15th.  Haven't been through there in 2-3 weeks, but was consistently a hassle for a while in that area.

It's Centennial Park, not Central Park. And there are homeless people there every single day. It's a public park and they have every right to use it.

B.S.  For a city of our size we are very blessed with quite a bit of social services and programs for the homeless and under-priveledged.  I think of Tulsa as being a pretty caring city. 

What cities do it well or better?  I’m not aware of one which has managed to deal with the problem entirely.  The truth is, there is no such thing as a fix for homelessness. 

For every person you get off the street, there’s another heading that direction.  It happens.  Whether it’s mental illness, drug use, ex-convicts turned out by family, or someone who had a cataclysm of circumstances which robbed them of everything- there will always be homeless or people temporarily down on their luck trying to claw their way back up.  It’s not a reflection on the community at large.

Keep in mind, homeless people will migrate to larger cities because smaller towns don’t have any resources to help them.  These are not all Tulsa natives you see out on the streets.

I looked long and hard last night for statistics to help understand what might actually help alleviate homelessness. Its hard to find a good source, but I think I found one:

http://www.endhomelessness.org/page/-/files/4361_file_Appendix_One.pdf

The chart lists cities with homeless populations, the estimate of the number of homeless as of 2011 (last year solid data was available for all 100), then breaks it down per capita and rank. It uses MSA, which I think it must. My idea was we could look at this data and find the trends - cities in the south tend to have more homeless, or cities on the coast, or in the rust belt...whatever. Then find the outliers that are doing better than the trends woudl suggest and see what they are doing.

I never got that far. In general, we are doing pretty well - in line with Pittsburgh, Dallas, etc. in per capita homelessness at 9/10k.  I will pick out one early trend, to have a truly astonishing number of homeless, you need to have a nice climate - California, Florida, Seattle, etc. I can't imagine the social functions that lead to homelessness are any different in Fresno California than they are in Pittsburgh, PA, do homeless people move to nice areas, feel more inclined/motivated based on location, or other factors?

Anyway, there is the data, dig into it. See what you can come up with.

I never got that far. In general, we are doing pretty well - in line with Pittsburgh, Dallas, etc. in per capita homelessness at 9/10k.  I will pick out one early trend, to have a truly astonishing number of homeless, you need to have a nice climate - California, Florida, Seattle, etc. I can't imagine the social functions that lead to homelessness are any different in Fresno California than they are in Pittsburgh, PA, do homeless people move to nice areas, feel more inclined/motivated based on location, or other factors?

Anyway, there is the data, dig into it. See what you can come up with.

I have reservations about creating communities for homeless without any stipulations to be clean and sober.  

This right here...    

I don't feel I'm qualified to weigh in on how to solve this problem, and I tend to agree with others that to a certain extent it will never go away.  But running through this string just now I first saw Heirony's line: "They have a right to trash a fine park." (and I am taking that piece in context, it was well-written response.)  And respectfully, I disagree. They, nor anyone, has a right to trash anything.  Use the parks, hang out, etc, fine.  But when you start setting up tents and leaving trash all around, intimidating people, etc, you have overstepped your welcome.

Getting people off the streets, in whatever form that is accomplished, is admirable.  But with aid comes some form of agreement with regard to behavior.  Simply feeding a person, or housing them, etc, without some commitment from the individual only perpetuates a bad situation.

DC, SF, Springfield MA, Seattle, NYC and all of the other major liberal cities should be ashamed of themselves and how they treat those who are not well off and they should all look up to conservative cities who actually help those in need like Wichita, Tulsa and Provo.

 

I don't feel I'm qualified to weigh in on how to solve this problem, and I tend to agree with others that to a certain extent it will never go away.  But running through this string just now I first saw Heirony's line: "They have a right to trash a fine park." (and I am taking that piece in context, it was well-written response.)  And respectfully, I disagree. They, nor anyone, has a right to trash anything.  Use the parks, hang out, etc, fine.  But when you start setting up tents and leaving trash all around, intimidating people, etc, you have overstepped your welcome.

Total hogwash.

Seattle has excellent programs for the homeless from public and private sources. They allow tent cities  on road right of ways, allow homeless to seel newspapers for income, and have a large host of social service agencies to deal with mental illness.

D.C. has an incredible network of social service agencies dealing with the homeless. http://www.dccfh.org/

Stop acting as if this is a partisan issue.

Total hogwash.

Seattle has excellent programs for the homeless from public and private sources. They allow tent cities  on road right of ways, allow homeless to seel newspapers for income, and have a large host of social service agencies to deal with mental illness.

D.C. has an incredible network of social service agencies dealing with the homeless. http://www.dccfh.org/

Stop acting as if this is a partisan issue.

Thank you!


I have met a couple of the people who were living behind the troll in Seattle - at least at the time I was there - and they were not ignored/neglected by the powers that be.  They just chose to be where they were, even though they seemed to imply they could have had a more 'conventional' roof than a bridge if they had chosen to.  As it was early summer and very pleasant weather, I could see the attraction to "camping out"....being outdoors while the weather is good.

??
I don't remember saying that... where was it??

Hogwash that the homeless enjoy being homeless! Everyone has a desire to save face. Do you think they want the additional shame of admitting they hate being homeless? In Utah, they've found that only about 10-15% of chronically homeless outright refuse to move into a home for one reason or another when offered (sometimes takes a long time to convince them). So Seattle should be able to reduce that from 13k down to 2k if they were really trying. That is a terrible place to be homeless with frequent rain and stable but somewhat chilly weather.

Portland has 7100 homeless!? That is insane. Imagine what we would say about Tulsa and OKC if we had 7000 homeless between the 2 cities!

heironymous, Can you explain why Tulsa is held to a much much higher standard than Portland or Seattle? Them  being among the worst places for homelessness in the US is good according to you whereas Tulsa's ranking near the top in the US in fewest homeless is a complete failure.

The problem with Portland is the homeless don't want housing, they don't need it. Between Portland and Vancouver there are probably 20 some odd places where they can get warm/food/showers/laundry/mass transit passes/basic medical/clothes/shoes/toiletries/tents/sleeping bags etc, and when you can gather bottles and cans a get $.05/can or bottle, they have everything they want.

Hogwash that the homeless enjoy being homeless! Everyone has a desire to save face. Do you think they want the additional shame of admitting they hate being homeless? In Utah, they've found that only about 10-15% of chronically homeless outright refuse to move into a home for one reason or another when offered (sometimes takes a long time to convince them). So Seattle should be able to reduce that from 13k down to 2k if they were really trying. That is a terrible place to be homeless with frequent rain and stable but somewhat chilly weather.

Portland has 7100 homeless!? That is insane. Imagine what we would say about Tulsa and OKC if we had 7000 homeless between the 2 cities!

heironymous, Can you explain why Tulsa is held to a much much higher standard than Portland or Seattle? Them  being among the worst places for homelessness in the US is good according to you whereas Tulsa's ranking near the top in the US in fewest homeless is a complete failure.

Seems like we're hung up on the word "homeless". Its a catch all word. We're really talking about substance abusers aren't we? People who get high or drunk and sleep in the bushes around a downtown church till they can get some coffee and food, then start the panhandling and do it all over again. They could care less about having a home except when it hot, cold or wet.

The ones that gather near Elwoods don't seem to be a problem, except that they sometimes seem to occupy the park area there and that (to me) seems to intrude too much on children's use of that space.   Where I had issues was more up between the bridge and about 15th.  Haven't been through there in 2-3 weeks, but was consistently a hassle for a while in that area.

I did not say "enjoy".  Don't go all Trumpy on me!

Given all the other components of their situation, that is where those two guys chose to be at that moment in time.  Maybe the weather was pleasant, maybe the panhandling was better due to all the tourists.  I didn't dig that deep into their situation.  They could have been elsewhere - the troll is where they chose to be.  One of them had a bicycle, so he was definitely more mobile of the two.

"They just chose to be where they were, even though they seemed to imply they could have had a more 'conventional' roof than a bridge if they had chosen to.  As it was early summer and very pleasant weather, I could see the attraction to "camping out"....being outdoors while the weather is good."

You said :That suggests that they enjoy their life being homeless and "chose" to live like that.

You are the one getting Trumpy with baseless attacks and refusal to answer the question I asked you:

You are really glamorizing the terrible homelessness issue in those places. I would much rather be homeless here than in Portland or Vancouver. In Tulsa, there's no shortage of shelters if you're willing to give up alcohol and drugs and live by the rules. There's an abundance of places to get free food. Homeless around here are not in want of food. Ever try giving food to a homeless person here? I have been met with negative reactions just about every time I've offered to give or buy food (but typically just "no thanks, I need a bus ticket"...).

Also, as I said, most homeless people would accept free housing if offered, especially without requirements to quit drugs/alcohol. Some are freebirds for life  but most would rather at least have a place inside.

I'm not trying to glamorize anything. The reason for the high number of homeless is that other than throwing free stuff to them, no one tries to actually help them. They have no reason to leave or try because they don't have to do anything. The cities let them camp anywhere. Tell you what, we'll send you some of this for the Williams Center Green

(http://portlandtribune.com/images/artimg/00003528254615.jpg)

and this for a better use of the surface parking

(http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/photo/homeless2jpg-42c4518543a5ea02.jpg)

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland-homeless/ (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland-homeless/)

See, these people are not “homeless” they are “urban campers”.   :D

I'm not trying to glamorize anything. The reason for the high number of homeless is that other than throwing free stuff to them, no one tries to actually help them. They have no reason to leave or try because they don't have to do anything. The cities let them camp anywhere. Tell you what, we'll send you some of this for the Williams Center Green

(http://portlandtribune.com/images/artimg/00003528254615.jpg)

and this for a better use of the surface parking

(http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/photo/homeless2jpg-42c4518543a5ea02.jpg)

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland-homeless/ (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland-homeless/)

How can you possibly equate a choice to enjoyment in that kind of situation?  It is like our current election - if one is going to vote, then one must make a choice.  For the vast majority that I have talked to, none "enjoy" it.  All to often choices are not made from enjoyment but from lessor of two evils standpoint.


Baseless attacks...?  Other than a quick little Trump poke, how were you attacked?  If you are that thin-skinned, I kinda feel for you in all your future dealings in life....

As for an answer to your question - I gotta ask you why should Tulsa NOT be held to a higher standard??   Your question alone implies abdication to the idea the those two places are inherently 'better' than Tulsa to start with.  I also submit that while it is good to keep an eye on others around us (like Portland and Seattle), we should strive to be the best that we can be and ALWAYS be working toward improving that!!  NO MATTER how far behind OR ahead of others we may be!

And there is your "Trumpy-ness" again - putting words into my mouth that I did not say - "Tulsa's ranking near the top in the US in fewest homeless is a complete failure."   Ya really owe it to yourself to step away from the Faux News once in a while.....


Still looking for that first quote of yours...can't find it.  The one saying I said they enjoy homeless living....  Got a post number?

As for an answer to your question - I gotta ask you why should Tulsa NOT be held to a higher standard??   Your question alone implies abdication to the idea the those two places are inherently 'better' than Tulsa to start with.  I also submit that while it is good to keep an eye on others around us (like Portland and Seattle), we should strive to be the best that we can be and ALWAYS be working toward improving that!!  NO MATTER how far behind OR ahead of others we may be!

And there is your "Trumpy-ness" again - putting words into my mouth that I did not say - "Tulsa's ranking near the top in the US in fewest homeless is a complete failure."   Ya really owe it to yourself to step away from the Faux News once in a while.....

I don't even know where to begin with all of your terrible logic. I do not watch Fox News and I am not a republican or even close to being one. Serious question, have you been diagnosed with a mental disorder? If not, you should go see someone about that.

And yet, even though I have answered your question(s), and addressed your comments directly, you start slinging insults.  And attempting deflection and misdirection.   Just address the first paragraph... I will repeat;

"How can you possibly equate a choice to enjoyment in that kind of situation?  It is like our current election - if one is going to vote, then one must make a choice.  For the vast majority that I have talked to, none "enjoy" it.  All to often choices are not made from enjoyment but from lessor of two evils standpoint."


You are the one that tried to put words in my mouth about homeless "enjoying" the lifestyle.  Unless you can show me that quote - as requested in the last line of that post, then one can only conclude that you intentionally injected a lie into the discussion.  Again, a typical Trump and Faux News method, so you can see how I would make that connection...

I have met a couple of the people who were living behind the troll in Seattle - at least at the time I was there -  and they were not ignored/neglected by the powers that be.  They just chose to be where they were, even though they seemed to imply they could have had a more 'conventional' roof than a bridge if they had chosen to. As it was early summer and very pleasant weather, I could see the attraction to "camping out"....being outdoors while the weather is good.

No, asking why Tulsa needs to eliminate homelessness far below any other city in the US is not "abdication" that those places are better, just that that is something Tulsa does far better so using those as examples of where they supposedly do it right is ridiculous. And of the ways where Tulsa could learn from other cities, that is not one of them. We have an incredibly generous community. They should learn from Tulsa on that. Your rant about republicans getting in the way of reducing homelessness was a poorly written excuse for an argument and was filled with sweeping generalizations with inherent fallacies.

I love to hate on Republicans as much as the next person but you sound like one of those old grumpy democrats everyone complains about in the suburbs and I don't even know what your age is.

All of that says it's nice weather, they were paid attention to by authorities/taken care of, they chose that life even though they "could have had a more 'conventional' roof". Plus you are comparing it to camping out which is a recreational activity! How does that not imply that they enjoyed being homeless?

If I had the option of sleeping inside or outside and I chose to sleep outside, it would be because I enjoyed that. Otherwise I would choose to sleep inside. Why would I choose to sleep outside if I both 1) had the option to sleep inside and 2) did not enjoy sleeping outside?

Its important to note that because if you identify them as "homeless", the solutions tend to center around finding structures for them when that is not their real need. We tend to think they want what we want, good homes, good jobs, family and respect. Maybe, but first they want to get high, get normal, get a buzz.

The Downtown Coordinating Council (DCC) recommends denial of a special zoning code exception for Iron Gate's proposed site near 7th & Frankfort...

November 9, 2016 Tulsa World online article by Mike Averill (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/downtown-advisory-board-recommends-denial-of-zoning-exception-for-new/article_a3fcd2b5-ab69-598c-abba-85e1fcac93be.html)

"Iron Gate officials said they had hoped to have a traffic light installed at Seventh Street and Frankfort Avenue to address those concerns."

That would really create a traffic disaster during morning rush hour.  The traffic already backs up substantially from the Elgin light and adding one at Frankfort would cause traffic to back up onto the exit ramps.  Additionally, many cars change lanes in this area and a light would make that more difficult and more risky.

I think this underscores the problem with this location for IG's core clientele.

The Downtown Coordinating Council (DCC) recommends denial of a special zoning code exception for Iron Gate's proposed site near 7th & Frankfort...

November 9, 2016 Tulsa World online article by Mike Averill (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/downtown-advisory-board-recommends-denial-of-zoning-exception-for-new/article_a3fcd2b5-ab69-598c-abba-85e1fcac93be.html)

Any idea why they don't take the obvious path and move to the area where most of the other social services are?

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.

Reason being nobody seems interested in actually attaching the issue at hand.

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.

My question is serious. Iron Gate has been told twice now that moving will be difficult, and nudged to look at the area where social services are centralized. It costs money, effort, and political capital every time this issues comes up.  Is there inertia to move over by the David L Moss, is there a lack of land for sale at reasonable prices, is it too far from the old location, or do they not want to locate in that area for other reasons?

I'm not saying Iron Gate is obligated to throw in the towel and go where they are encouraged to, just wondering if anyone knows if they are reluctant to do so and, if so, why?

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.

Except that we do support the poor. Tulsans are among the most philanthropic in the nation with very high donations per capita and one of the lowest homeless rates in the nation. Furthermore, we already donate enough to provide housing for every single chronically homeless person, there just isn't one cohesive effort to provide that. Currently, if you agree to not do drugs or alcohol, you can find a shelter to stay at in Tulsa. The Denver House has a project, "Better Box", which is aiming to follow Utah's path to providing housing for all homeless without the requirement to quit drinking or using.

Please learn some facts before posting inflammatory nonsense.

Learn facts? I literally work daily next to Iron Gate.

More facts for you: Tulsa has a poverty rate of 19.7% compared to the national average of 15.1%. I've learned my facts and am sick of you all running from them.

Another fun fact: Not everyone that uses Iron Gate is homeless.

Stockholm owned the property on which the old furniture and lumber company occupied, but sold it to Michael Sager.
Sager, who sits on the Downtown Coordinating Council, is best known for his company Blue Dome Properties LLC, which has invested heavily in downtown. He purchased the proposed soup kitchen site from Stockholm through a different company, Bricks and Mortar LLC.
He defended the Iron Gate move Monday, saying the new building would be a positive for the neighborhood.
“I think it is a fabulous use of the property.” he said. “The architecture, the investment. … I think it is fabulous.”
He called those who would use the city’s most vulnerable population to spread fear “terribly petty.”
“I think there is plenty of crime that is not attributable to the homeless and the people in need,” Sager said.

Backtracking a bit to the OP.  The site burned to the ground Saturday morning.
http://www.fox23.com/news/firefighters-battle-midtown-tulsa-fire/472698791

May belong in a different thread now.

Backtracking a bit to the OP.  The site burned to the ground Saturday morning.
http://www.fox23.com/news/firefighters-battle-midtown-tulsa-fire/472698791

May belong in a different thread now.

And their drone is registered with the FAA, N617PR.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N617PR (http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N617PR)

Backtracking a bit to the OP.  The site burned to the ground Saturday morning.
http://www.fox23.com/news/firefighters-battle-midtown-tulsa-fire/472698791

May belong in a different thread now.

Iron gate could be interested in site next to Day Center for the Homeless

County lists parcel adjacent to jail as surplus; soup kitchen seeks specifics



The Iron Gate soup kitchen and food pantry might be interested in a parcel of land recently listed as surplus by Tulsa County, officials with the nonprofit said Monday.

“Right now, we’re trying to get a handle on how (the county) bidding process works and trying to understand the specifics of the property,” Iron Gate Chairman Shane Saunders said in an email. “To the eye, it looks big enough for our purposes, but we want to see if we can fit our existing design on the property.”

The property is in the northwest sector of downtown, where an advisory planning board opposed to the agency’s proposed relocation to the east edge of downtown advised Iron Gate to move last year.

The 1.8-acre parcel at Archer Street and Frisco Avenue adjoins property occupied by the Day Center for the Homeless and the Tulsa Jail and is across the street from the construction site for the new juvenile and family justice center.

The property was listed as surplus last week at the request of County Commissioner Karen Keith.

Iron Gate has been trying for several years to move from its home in the basement of Trinity Episcopal Church, 501 S. Cincinnati Ave.

Two years ago, Iron Gate’s proposal to relocate to 302 S. Peoria Ave. in the Pearl District, just east of downtown, was shot down when the agency’s application for rezoning was rejected by the Board of Adjustment.

Its attempt last year to move to a 1.5-acre site between Seventh and Eighth streets and Elgin and Frankfort avenues touched off a legal dispute that remains unresolved.

Property owners in that area objected to Iron Gate’s plans to build a 20,000-square-foot facility at that location, and in November Iron Gate was denied a zoning variance it would have needed to operate there.

Iron Gate’s appeal of that decision continues to languish in Tulsa County District Court.

Saunders said the Archer Street location could make “a good backup plan” but noted that Iron Gate still has a contract on the land on downtown’s east side.

“Another unanswered question is what will the regulatory and/or environmental hurdles look like,” Saunders wrote. “We’re already in the midst of an appeal with our current site regarding zoning. If we can get a handle on all of this, Iron Gate will likely be a bidder.”

County officials said they don’t know how long the legal process for disposing of the property will take or whether it will be sold by auction or sealed bid. In either event, there is no guarantee that Iron Gate would submit the best bid.

Guess we're just losing that side of Downtown. It's already sketchy walking from the Brady to Crosbie and Owen Park.

I don't think anyone active in the Brady Arts District is open to claiming that portion as strictly Brady. I've even seen a few business/property owners correct maps and point out that that area is the "Justice District"

Don't see it as an impact on the Brady, but do see it as a positive for both Iron Gate and the NIMBY types around the current Iron Gate location

Judge's ruling clears the way for Iron Gate to build new facility in southeast downtown



A nonprofit feeding program has the right to construct a new downtown soup kitchen and food pantry without jumping through any city zoning hoops, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Tulsa District Judge Rebecca Nightingale ruled in favor of Iron Gate’s motion for summary judgment following a hearing, clearing the way for the nonprofit to go forward with its plans for a new facility on the southeast side of downtown.

Nightingale, in her ruling, determined that the city of Tulsa erred when it required the nonprofit to receive Board of Adjustment approval before it could construct its new facility.

Nightingale found in favor of Iron Gate’s contention that the use for new facility more closely fit within the description of a restaurant, which under the zoning code does not require a special exception from the Board of Adjustment for locations within the Central Business District.

"The only one that fits is restaurant (use) and it is square on," Nightingale said, while posing questions to an attorney for the city of Tulsa.

City officials contended the facility fit more in the zoning category of government services, which did require a special exception.

Iron Gate attorney Lou Reynolds said afterwards that “obviously we’re pleased with it," referring to the judge’s decision.

“It’s really the first opportunity Iron Gate has had a chance to have its case heard, because there weren’t enough Board of Adjustment officials to hear it,” Reynolds said. “Judge Nightingale has fully heard both sides of the story and we believe she has made the correct ruling.

“We’ll go forward on this property,” Reynolds said. “We just need a building permit.”

An attorney for the city of Tulsa declined to comment on the ruling immediately after the hearing.

The nonprofit filed a lawsuit Nov. 23 after a week prior it failed to win approval from the Tulsa Board of Adjustment for their proposed new facility.

At issue was whether or not the nonprofit could operate at the proposed site either by right or by special exception.

To operate by right, the nonprofit had to convince Nightingale of its claim that the proposed downtown soup kitchen and food pantry for the needy more closely resembles in use a restaurant, rather than a government service as alleged by the city of Tulsa.

Officials with Iron Gate are planning to build a 20,000-square-foot facility on vacant property between Seventh and Eighth streets and Kenosha and Elgin avenues. The new facility would house food storage and kitchen space, a dining hall and administrative offices. An enclosed courtyard where people could wait to get into the building also is part of the plan.

The property for the proposed Iron Gate development is owned by William C. Schillinger. The sale of the property to Iron Gate is pending “subject to a determination that the property is suitable for its proposed development,” according to Iron Gate’s appeal.

A capital campaign has raised more than $9 million to buy land, build the facility and create an operating reserve. Construction is expected to cost $3.2 million.

Iron Gate currently provides daily meals to nearly 250 people through its soup kitchen and groceries to an additional 300 households each week through its food pantry. It has been located since its inception in 1978 at Trinity Episcopal Church, 501 S. Cincinnati Ave.

Iron Gate legally separated from the church and became its own 501(c)(3) organization in 1984, according to its website. It remains located in the basement of the church.

Iron Gate went to court after two of five Board of Adjustment members cast votes in favor of the request. Three votes are required to approve a measure before the Board of Adjustment. Two of the members recused from the vote and a third member abstained.

Iron Gate maintained that its proposed facility is not affiliated with a government entity or that it provides a government function. Rather, the nonprofit claimed its project fits more in the zoning category of a restaurant, office or warehouse — uses that don’t require Board of Adjustment approval.

City officials, in court filings, note that the government service designation was under the larger umbrella grouping of a public, quasi-public and private uses that provide unique services that are a benefit to the public.

“Iron Gate’s own documents show that it is a private entity that provides unique services that are of benefit to the public at large,” the city wrote in a court filing.

The owner of a self-storage facility immediately west of the proposed site opposed the Iron Gate request to relocate its operations.

SS Downtown Tulsa LLC claimed that Iron Gate was a not a restaurant and therefore did not qualify for a use by right to utilize the proposed site for its soup kitchen and food warehouse.

35.040 Public, Civic and Institutional Use Category
This category includes public, quasi-public and private uses that provide unique services that are of
benefit to the public at-large. The public, civic and institutional subcategories are as follows.
. . .
35.040-G Governmental Service
Local, state or federal government services or functions that are not otherwise
classified.

Section 35.050 Commercial Use Category
The commercial use category includes uses that provide a business service or involve the selling,
leasing or renting of merchandise to the general public. The commercial use subcategories are as
follows.
. . .
35.050-K Restaurants and Bars
. . .
2. Restaurant
An establishment that serves food or beverages for on- or off-premise consumption
as its principal business. The preparation and processing of food or
beverages to be served or sold on-site directly to consumers is permitted as an
accessory use to a restaurant, including on-site coffee roasting with a maximum
capacity of 3 kilos. Typical examples of restaurant uses include principal
use restaurants, cafés, cafeterias, ice cream/yogurt shops, donut shops and
coffee shops.
a. Principal Use Restaurant
A restaurant that employs at least one full-time cook, has a menu, a fully
equipped kitchen for cooking and preparation of meals and in which dining,
kitchen and non-service areas occupy at least 75% of the floor area of
the business. A principal use restaurant may include an accessory use bar,
but any bar area that does not meet the definition of an accessory use bar
(Section 95.040) is classified and regulated as a bar.

So if I'm reading that right they'll be baiting homeless people to cross 7th street right where people are coming off of highway 75 at 60 MPH...

Those drivers are looking to merge...not looking for pedestrians.

Those using Iron Gate and driving will be turning into the new property...Carnac the Magnificent sees many collisions.

There's going to be some deaths occurring there.

John 3:16 and the Day Center are both in this area.  Seems to make sense to keep it closer rather than further away from other entities which serve the homeless and down on their luck.

Commissioner John Smaligo opposed the deal though. He doesn’t like the 99-year term of the lease, and has other fears, including what he says is the possibility the site could eventually become a marijuana dispensary.

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/after-arguments-pro-and-con-county-leaders-okay-site-where-iron-gate-could-expand

Does anyone know where that fear comes from?  Seems odd.  Even if there is some reason to think that's a dangerous and top of mind possibility, it's not like that would be the thing holding back development in the area. I must be missing something.

Or is the marijuana that much of a deep seeded fear?

I imagine if the Jazz Depot continues its problems, the County could easily pull the plug on the lease.

Isn't that subject just to it being after the 99 years? I imagine if the Jazz Depot continues its problems, the County could easily pull the plug on the lease. The same for this potential Iron Gate spot.

Jazz Depot is having problems? Not surprised at all. Worst managed place I've ever been. I know not 1 but 2 friends who had booked & paid for their weddings which got canceled week-of due to mismanagement. Also absolutely impossible to communicate with.

Jazz Depot is having problems? Not surprised at all. Worst managed place I've ever been. I know not 1 but 2 friends who had booked & paid for their weddings which got canceled week-of due to mismanagement. Also absolutely impossible to communicate with.

I hope one day Union Depot is turned back into a working train station and more people will be able to appreciate the Deco architecture.  The Jazz HOF never made much sense being there.

Agreed.  That would be great.  Likewise, I have to believe the building would have been better used for another purpose.

(https://ww2.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/26/2018/01/ReeferMadness800.png)

Iron Gate announcing plan to move to county land near Day Center for the Homeless


Iron Gate will hold a news conference Wednesday morning to announce that it is moving its soup kitchen and food pantry to county-owned property near the Tulsa County jail, Iron Gate officials confirmed Tuesday.

The announcement will be made 10:30 a.m. at the Tulsa Press Club, 415 S. Boston Ave.

Tulsa County commissioners voted 2-1 last month to approve a 99-year lease with the nonprofit for a 1.77-acre property just west of the Tulsa Day Center for the Homeless on Archer Street.


Shane Saunders, president of the Iron Gate board, said at the time that the board would need to review the agreement before deciding what its next step would be.

Under the terms of the lease agreement approved by county commissioners, Iron Gate would pay the county $300,000 in the first year and $300,000 in the second year, with no payments thereafter.

Iron Gate has been operating out of Trinity Episcopal Church, 501 S. Cincinnati Ave., since its inception in 1978. It began looking for a new site about two years ago, citing a need to build a new facility to accommodate its growing clientele.

After considering several sites, Iron Gate announced last year that it planned to open its new facility on 1.5 acres between Seventh and Eighth streets and Elgin and Kenosha avenues. But that move was blocked by the city of Tulsa’s Board of Adjustment, leading to a court battle from which the city has since withdrawn.

The new 20,000-square-foot facility is expected to include space to store food as well as space for a kitchen, dining hall and administrative offices. An enclosed courtyard where people would be able to wait to get into the building also is part of the plan.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/iron-gate-announcing-plan-to-move-to-county-land-near/article_a92a3dc3-e417-5fce-9929-099e5d8bbb7c.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/iron-gate-announcing-plan-to-move-to-county-land-near/article_a92a3dc3-e417-5fce-9929-099e5d8bbb7c.html)

That location really does make sense and will almost certainly help keep those in need without cars concentrated in that area which already has so many existing services. Sure the needy might be more concentrated in the Brady District but it'll also be far more convenient when they can get lunch and dinner and other things all right there and not have to spend as much time crossing the entire IDL.

Latest rendering.  NW corner of Archer & Frisco

(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/579785c13e00be13d0b7b99e/t/5b6228ae6d2a73b245f93e21/1533159615199/Exterior.jpg?format=750w)