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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: Breadburner on June 27, 2015, 08:42:01 pm



Title: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on June 27, 2015, 08:42:01 pm
Both going bye bye for something new......


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on June 28, 2015, 12:13:07 am
Hopefully REI!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on June 28, 2015, 08:41:48 am
Nope....Thats not what I'm hearing.......


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: In_Tulsa on June 28, 2015, 08:49:23 am
Nope....Thats not what I'm hearing.......

What are you hearing?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 28, 2015, 09:18:38 am
Doesn't surprise me. I've heard from several people the Helmerich family has loosened it's grip on Utica, and that they might finally get rid of it or let someone come in and expand it significantly. I believe they even sent reps to the annual retail conference in Vegas this year too, so maybe that's where this came about?

I can see a Nordstroms or Neiman Marcus wanting this space. I've always heard Miss Jackson's did well, but I would imagine Petty's was getting under-cut by all the new "fresh" food groceries coming into Midtown. Sad to see two long-time staples of Tulsa retail go away though. Not sure what the ladies of Tulsa will do with all those $50,000 fur coats Miss Jackson stores for them upstairs haha.

What are you hearing as far as who is coming into these spaces and when? Any clue if Miss Jackson's or Petty's will re-lo anywhere or just completely close?



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on June 28, 2015, 09:26:30 am
Another Grocer....And retailer.....Not anything anyone has mentioned in this thread as far as the retailer goes and its a retailer not currently here......


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: In_Tulsa on June 28, 2015, 10:39:38 am
Another Grocer....And retailer.....Not anything anyone has mentioned in this thread as far as the retailer goes and its a retailer not currently here......


H&M? That would not surprise me.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LandArchPoke on June 28, 2015, 11:32:46 am

H&M? That would not surprise me.

Please no. Not in Utica Square. If they replaced Miss Jackson's with H&M that would be a huge downgrade.

Another Grocer....And retailer.....Not anything anyone has mentioned in this thread as far as the retailer goes and its a retailer not currently here......

Can't elaborate anymore? I can't think of any grocer that isn't in Tulsa that would want a small space like that...

The Miss Jackson's space I could see a Container Store, Crate and Barrel, or something like that going in there too.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Markk on June 30, 2015, 12:45:16 pm
Both going bye bye for something new......

This kind of post irritates me.  It's like you're playing some kind of game with readers to get them to guess about new tenants.   If you know who the new tenants are, identify them.  If you don't, say you don't. But don't sit back with a big smile on your face while people try to figure out what you likely already know. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dsjeffries on June 30, 2015, 02:18:35 pm
I heard Fresh Market is taking over the Petty's space.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: hello on June 30, 2015, 02:48:07 pm
I heard Fresh Market is taking over the Petty's space.

That would be amazing! I love them more than Sprouts or Whole Foods but 81st and Yale is too far from Downtown for me.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on June 30, 2015, 03:11:25 pm
This kind of post irritates me.  It's like you're playing some kind of game with readers to get them to guess about new tenants.   If you know who the new tenants are, identify them.  If you don't, say you don't. But don't sit back with a big smile on your face while people try to figure out what you likely already know. 

Tuff smile....It's not my place to publicly announce it......Go have a drink......Ya whiner.....


Title: Re:
Post by: saintnicster on June 30, 2015, 03:57:20 pm
But it's your place to be a little kid singsoning "I know something you don't know".


Title: Re:
Post by: Markk on June 30, 2015, 04:01:39 pm
But it's your place to be a little kid singsoning "I know something you don't know".

Amen to that!  The guy's a complete tool.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Red Arrow on June 30, 2015, 11:04:55 pm
That would be amazing! I love them more than Sprouts or Whole Foods but 81st and Yale is too far from Downtown for me.

Among the 3, Sprouts is my favorite.  I get some house brand, low saturated fat, Tortilla chips from Fresh Market that are pretty good.  I  think Sprouts' produce is pretty good and usually at a good price. They often beat Walmart here down south and Sprouts' produce is usually better quality.  Lately Whole Foods has had POM Pomegranate juice a bit less expensive than the other places at $3.49 for 16 oz.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on July 01, 2015, 09:35:15 am
I like Sprouts, but I feel that the "Farmer's Market" title is misleading.  Their produce and meats come from all over the place just like any other grocery store.  Their prices are also very low, which is good, but it's not a farmers market in the sense I think of them.  A Fresh Market will do well in Utica Square, but I'm sad to see Petty's go out.  Is it not an option for Petty to revamp the store in a Fresh Market type style?  It is certainly in need of updating.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on July 01, 2015, 08:59:27 pm
Fresh Market's "prepared foods" seem to be a wider selection and better than sprouts, and that is something that Petty's seemed to sell a lot of.

Miss Jackson's is from another era.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Red Arrow on July 01, 2015, 10:08:35 pm
Fresh Market's "prepared foods" seem to be a wider selection and better than sprouts, and that is something that Petty's seemed to sell a lot of.

Could be.  I don't buy the prepared food.  I get meat when it's on sale.  It has a lot less "natural juices" than other places.  I hate paying several $/lb for salt water.



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Red Arrow on July 01, 2015, 10:13:16 pm
I like Sprouts, but I feel that the "Farmer's Market" title is misleading.  Their produce and meats come from all over the place just like any other grocery store.  Their prices are also very low, which is good, but it's not a farmers market in the sense I think of them.
I tend to ignore the "Farmer's Market" portion of their name/sign.  Maybe they are referring to the  produce stands which are more "Farmer's Market" like than other grocery stores.

Quote
A Fresh Market will do well in Utica Square, but I'm sad to see Petty's go out.  Is it not an option for Petty to revamp the store in a Fresh Market type style?  It is certainly in need of updating.

I was in Petty's a few times looking for some specialty stuff.  While there I looked at their staples.  Same stuff as other stores but priced noticeably higher.  Utica Square is a drive from 111th & Memorial so it would need to be something I couldn't get out south for me to go there.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on July 06, 2015, 03:35:43 pm
My guess: Fresh Market in the Petty's space (based on what others have already said) and Crate & Barrel in the Miss Jackson's space. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on July 06, 2015, 08:19:28 pm
My guess: Fresh Market in the Petty's space (based on what others have already said) and Crate & Barrel in the Miss Jackson's space. 

Crate & Barrel?  Yee Haw!   ::)



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on July 07, 2015, 09:42:30 am
Von Maur?  (Except the space seems pretty small for them)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on July 07, 2015, 10:34:41 am
Von Maur?  (Except the space seems pretty small for them)

yeah, too small. I looked it up and Miss Jackson's is only 30,000 square feet, unless there's a massive rebuild taking out parking there's no large department store going in there.

Van Maur is probably just waiting for Sears to go belly up at Woodland, which could be any day now.



Title: Re:
Post by: Breadburner on July 07, 2015, 12:31:54 pm
But it's your place to be a little kid singsoning "I know something you don't know".

Wut....???


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on July 07, 2015, 02:40:33 pm
While I've been in Tulsa almost 40 years, this song is the first time I heard the name "Miss Jackson" and so it pops in my head every time I visit this thread or Utica Square:
https://youtu.be/MYxAiK6VnXw?t=30s


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: CoffeeBean on July 08, 2015, 07:57:10 pm
I wish Central Market would open in Tulsa, but this space seems too small. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on July 09, 2015, 08:53:19 am
I wish Central Market would open in Tulsa, but this space seems too small. 

Central Market would be fantastic, blows away Whole Foods and others by a mile in my opinion.  I was addicted to it when I lived in Dallas.  But Utica Square is too small of a space. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on July 09, 2015, 09:06:00 am
Helmerich and Payne owns Miss Jacksons as well as Utica Square.  Does anyone know if they also own Petty's?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on July 09, 2015, 09:30:49 am
Mrs. Jackson's to become Nordstroms
Fresh Market is to go in the SE corner across from Monte Cassino
J. Crew taking the American Eagle spot.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on July 09, 2015, 09:38:15 am
Helmerich and Payne owns Miss Jacksons as well as Utica Square.  Does anyone know if they also own Petty's?

Last I knew Scott Petty still owned it.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on July 09, 2015, 09:49:09 am
Last I knew Scott Petty still owned it.

Thanks.  Looks like you're right.  I looked up their website and sure enough it is still owned by Scott and Maureen Petty.  Celebrating the store's 70th year.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on July 09, 2015, 11:00:59 am
Fresh Market is to go in the SE corner across from Monte Cassino

New construction on the lot at 22nd Place and Yorktown? Or do you mean SE corner more loosely like the buildings from the USPS to the Elephant Trunk?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on July 09, 2015, 11:37:22 am
New construction at 22nd and Yorktown. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on July 09, 2015, 01:33:07 pm
New construction at 22nd and Yorktown. 


Nice and well hidden


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on July 09, 2015, 03:15:01 pm
Mrs. Jackson's to become Nordstroms
Fresh Market is to go in the SE corner across from Monte Cassino
J. Crew taking the American Eagle spot.

How are they going to squeeze a Nordstrom into a space that is too small for Von Maur?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 09, 2015, 03:21:06 pm
Good deal. Seems to result in overall more retail int he same footprint. Density in a part of town that has thrived on density.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on July 09, 2015, 03:26:24 pm
How are they going to squeeze a Nordstrom into a space that is too small for Von Maur?

It's going to have to be a new building.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on July 09, 2015, 03:34:05 pm
From what I've heard; The Fresh Market will be built to the street, all glass.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Mgsports on July 11, 2015, 07:38:32 pm
Rally House? Stage? Bealls? Belk? Shopko? Homegoods? Goody's Family Clothing? Bloomingdales? Ozarkland? Gohastings? City Target? At Home? HHGREGG? Mejier? All might fit size.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on July 11, 2015, 09:12:52 pm
Mrs. Jackson's to become Nordstroms
Fresh Market is to go in the SE corner across from Monte Cassino
J. Crew taking the American Eagle spot.

Miss Jackson's is not going to be Nordstroms from what I;m hearing.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Ibanez on July 13, 2015, 07:28:42 am
Rally House? Stage? Bealls? Belk? Shopko? Homegoods? Goody's Family Clothing? Bloomingdales? Ozarkland? Gohastings? City Target? At Home? HHGREGG? Mejier? All might fit size.

Meijer? Um, I don't know which of their stores you have seen, but the ones I have seen in Indiana and Michigan make a Super Wal-Mart look cramped.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on July 13, 2015, 10:14:49 am
Rally House? Stage? Bealls? Belk? Shopko? Homegoods? Goody's Family Clothing? Bloomingdales? Ozarkland? Gohastings? City Target? At Home? HHGREGG? Mejier? All might fit size.

Half of those would have Walt Helmerich spinning in his grave.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on July 13, 2015, 12:30:11 pm
I know it's not going to happen, but what about Bloomingdales? I hear there's a massive Bloomingdales distro center just a few miles from Utica.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Mgsports on July 14, 2015, 06:13:33 am
He-Vee,Winn Dixie,Dillion's? Tulsa Shock store? Food Court? Farm and Home store?


Title: Re:
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 14, 2015, 07:09:00 am
Wut....???


He didn't expect you to understand - that was for everyone else here who can.


Title: Re:
Post by: Breadburner on July 14, 2015, 08:25:35 am

He didn't expect you to understand - that was for everyone else here who can.


Try and stay on topic.....


Title: Re:
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 14, 2015, 10:54:36 am
Try and stay on topic.....


Keep tryin'....someday...sometime...in a distant future we can all only imagine...



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on July 14, 2015, 03:06:48 pm
I think the only way you fit a Nordstrom in Utica Square is if Saks left and they took their building and added on to the south.  Which if that happened would be a win for Utica Square.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Townsend on July 14, 2015, 03:56:32 pm
I'd like an Apple store somewhere in Tulsa that is not in Woodland Hills Mall.

I'm not a fan of Woodland Hills Mall and would like the last reason to find myself at 71st and Memorial to be ended.

Apple store at Utica Square...I'd like it to happen.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 14, 2015, 03:57:52 pm
I'd like an Apple store somewhere in Tulsa that is not in Woodland Hills Mall.

I'm not a fan of Woodland Hills Mall and would like the last reason to find myself at 71st and Memorial to be ended.

Apple store at Utica Square...I'd like it to happen.


Good idea!!  Anywhere but Woodland!!



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Markk on July 14, 2015, 04:20:53 pm
I'm all in on that.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on July 15, 2015, 08:49:28 am
I'd like an Apple store somewhere in Tulsa that is not in Woodland Hills Mall.

I'm not a fan of Woodland Hills Mall and would like the last reason to find myself at 71st and Memorial to be ended.

Apple store at Utica Square...I'd like it to happen.

Apple fanboi weighing in here:

BOOM!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: bacjz00 on July 15, 2015, 09:54:08 am
FWIW, OKC only has one Apple Store also.   Apple seems very conservative about building new retail locations.   



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on July 15, 2015, 10:15:41 am
FWIW, OKC only has one Apple Store also.   Apple seems very conservative about building new retail locations.   

The entire Denver metro has only 4, all in malls except one which is in a suburban lifestyle center.  There is a rumor that Apple originally wanted to go in Utica Square instead of Woodland.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Townsend on July 15, 2015, 11:17:39 am
  There is a rumor that Apple originally wanted to go in Utica Square instead of Woodland.

I heard that as well and it was shot down by the old man.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 15, 2015, 12:42:03 pm
I heard that as well and it was shot down by the old man.


Wouldn't that be a shame....all that foot traffic and probable "spill over" business to other stores!

Maybe that's the problem - Utica Sq seems to be already busy all the time.



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on July 15, 2015, 07:44:54 pm

 Utica Sq seems to be already busy all the time.


So does Woodland.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 16, 2015, 08:28:58 am
So does Woodland.


Yes they are!  I hate going there... well, plus it IS a Simon mall...!



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on July 16, 2015, 08:27:24 pm

Yes they are!  I hate going there... well, plus it IS a Simon mall...!



Simon knows what's best for you. just give in.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2015, 08:05:13 am
Simon knows what's best for you. just give in.

I have.

"These ARE the droids I'm looking for...."



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SouthTulsaCountyDude on July 20, 2015, 09:12:49 am
Miss Jackson's is not going to be Nordstroms from what I;m hearing.....

Please elaborate?   

When?    Why?   


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: rdj on July 21, 2015, 01:17:11 pm
The entire Denver metro has only 4, all in malls except one which is in a suburban lifestyle center.  There is a rumor that Apple originally wanted to go in Utica Square instead of Woodland.

I was told that by one of Mr Helmerich's sons.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: rebound on July 21, 2015, 03:56:21 pm
I was in Nordstroms Rack on 71st this past weekend and had a chance to ask the manager in passing about Utica rumor.  He said there was no truth to it.  Of course, he could have been spouting the corporate line, but he seemed genuine in his position.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Markk on August 08, 2015, 07:16:49 am
Both going bye bye for something new......

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/johnstancavage/john-stancavage-miss-jackson-s-petty-s-fight-back-against/article_5fd46966-3aa9-5b8c-aa0c-499e4d139172.html

Any comments from the topic's "know it all" about today's headline in the TW?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: patric on October 28, 2015, 06:58:18 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/year-old-upscale-tulsa-retailer-miss-jackson-s-to-close/article_94c0ea29-40b6-5ab8-a75c-4ec704dd6bd6.html


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on October 28, 2015, 07:30:38 pm
Trying to find shocked face.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on October 29, 2015, 03:06:06 pm
But where will the pretentious amongst us go to shop now?

Sounds like the Utica Square management must not have renewed the lease or jacked the rate really high to get them to make space for whatever more modern concept they hope to bring in.  I’m curious when Petty’s will make their amended announcement.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on October 29, 2015, 03:22:05 pm
But where will the pretentious amongst us go to shop now?

Sounds like the Utica Square management must not have renewed the lease or jacked the rate really high to get them to make space for whatever more modern concept they hope to bring in.  I’m curious when Petty’s will make their amended announcement.

Utica Square (H&P) owns Miss Jacksons. I also expect to hear about some sort of lease issue with Petty's pretty soon.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on October 29, 2015, 03:28:50 pm
Utica Square (H&P) owns Miss Jacksons. I also expect to hear about some sort of lease issue with Petty's pretty soon.

I made a comment a few days after Walt died about what changes would be forthcoming at Utica Square and it was taken as being poor taste or “too soon”. 

It was inevitable. 

Hell, his kids are even saying it’s okay to put layup slab development on land he gave to the city for park land.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on October 29, 2015, 03:32:56 pm
I made a comment a few days after Walt died about what changes would be forthcoming at Utica Square and it was taken as being poor taste or “too soon”. 

It was inevitable. 

Hell, his kids are even saying it’s okay to put layup slab development on land he gave to the city for park land.


It will be a huge blow to Utica Square if it turns out they shut down Miss Jackson's and Petty's for a fracking H&M.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: In_Tulsa on October 29, 2015, 03:48:40 pm
It will be a huge blow to Utica Square if it turns out they shut down Miss Jackson's and Petty's for a fracking H&M.

It will bring at least twice the amount of customers Jacksons and Petty's together brings.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on October 29, 2015, 03:49:51 pm
It will bring at least twice the amount of customers Jacksons and Petty's together brings.

So would an Old Navy, so what?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 29, 2015, 03:57:52 pm
Trying to find shocked face.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--Tq05aJXCnA/VFUyyHPW-xI/AAAAAAAADr0/WCw2CV6viUI/s1600/geico-horror-movie-ss-05.jpg)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on October 29, 2015, 04:29:28 pm
Went to the H&M in OKC. It was in a non-anchor spot and was about like 50 people trying to shop in a closet. It was two levels but one level was about the size of the escalator. They had to limit what sizes and styles they carried due to lack of space. Basically they had baby and petite and that was it.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on October 29, 2015, 07:05:56 pm
Went to the H&M in OKC. It was in a non-anchor spot and was about like 50 people trying to shop in a closet. It was two levels but one level was about the size of the escalator. They had to limit what sizes and styles they carried due to lack of space. Basically they had baby and petite and that was it.

I've been in Dallas and Philly. It's just a damn discount store for very skinny people.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Red Arrow on October 29, 2015, 07:59:07 pm
I've been in Dallas and Philly. It's just a damn discount store for very skinny people.

I checked out their (H&M) website.  Nothing I'm particularly interested in.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TheArtist on October 29, 2015, 09:21:11 pm
Went to the one near OKC a couple of weeks ago.  Bout fell into a coma just getting there. I don't think I have ever seen such a sprawling suburban wasteland before.  Horrid experience, will never go back.  I really don't understand what all that was? 

However, the H&M was just ok.  Didn't have as many suit/blazer type outfits that I usually go to them to get for everyday wear.  Did find some jeans "on the rack" that actually fit.  So that was nice.
 
http://www.hm.com/us/products/men/blazers_suits



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on October 30, 2015, 09:44:30 am
I'm in my 30's and never heard of a single person who ever stepped foot in Miss Jacksons much less bought anything.  No one even talked about it, I only knew of its existence because of the sign.  Must be a generational thing.  Was it intentional not marketing or adjusting to new customers or was it just a business model that was not sustainable?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: hello on October 30, 2015, 10:35:30 am
I went in there once because I wanted to spend a lot of money on a pair of shoes for a wedding. They had no selection, same as our Saks and I left empty handed. I'm not sad it's leaving, Utica Square needs it's stores updated.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: PonderInc on October 30, 2015, 12:15:04 pm
Went there once back in the 80's to buy my mom some Godiva Chocolate.  The clerks were snooty and treated me like crap.  I've never been back.  Not my vibe.  No loss to me.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 30, 2015, 12:57:40 pm
It seems if they wanted to survive they would have had to offer something different. You can't compete with Anne Taylor, Saks, Coach and the web by offering the same things they do. One would think they could have partnered with local designers, jewelry makers, and chocolateers... keep a local element to the luxury. Differentiate the product.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SouthTulsaCountyDude on November 12, 2015, 09:19:26 am
What the latest rumor for what is replacing Miss Jacksons?   

Is Petty's out soon too?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on November 12, 2015, 09:34:50 am
What the latest rumor for what is replacing Miss Jacksons?   

Is Petty's out soon too?

The last word from Scott Petty was that they were not planning to close.  Of course that was the last word of Miss Jackson’s until they gave their final word they are, in fact, closing.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on November 12, 2015, 11:21:45 am
What the latest rumor for what is replacing Miss Jacksons?   

Is Petty's out soon too?

H & M.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SouthTulsaCountyDude on November 12, 2015, 11:25:54 am
H & M to take over the Miss Jackson's place or the Petty's area as well?

rumor coming from a good reputable source?   :) 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on November 12, 2015, 12:37:21 pm
Good source says it will not be an H&M, but closer to a competitor to Saks.  Saks only has another year or two on their land lease.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SouthTulsaCountyDude on November 12, 2015, 12:38:36 pm
Good source says it will not be an H&M, but closer to a competitor to Saks.  Saks only has another year or two on their land lease.


closer to a competitor to Saks.... meaning?    names?   :)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on November 12, 2015, 12:42:41 pm
Not sure. I'd hate to say Nordstrom's becuase that is the name that gets thrown around whenever someone is speculating on a project and then it ends up being a Big Lots.  But I do think it will be something like that from everything that I've heard.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on November 12, 2015, 02:38:09 pm
Nordstroms Outlet.  Because if you add "Outlet" to anything apparently Tulsans go crazy for it.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SouthTulsaCountyDude on November 12, 2015, 02:43:56 pm
Nordstroms Outlet.  Because if you add "Outlet" to anything apparently Tulsans go crazy for it.

There is already a Nordstrom Rack in Tulsa.   That is their "outlet store"


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on November 12, 2015, 03:22:21 pm
Nordstroms Outlet.  Because if you add "Outlet" to anything apparently Tulsans go crazy for it.

Or form coalitions to influence them to move their outlet elsewhere.  ;D


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on November 12, 2015, 04:00:14 pm
H & M to take over the Miss Jackson's place or the Petty's area as well?

rumor coming from a good reputable source?   :) 

Does it make any difference......???


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 12, 2015, 05:08:43 pm
Nordstroms Outlet.  Because if you add "Outlet" to anything apparently Tulsans go crazy for it.

Nordstrom Outlet, that's an oxymoron. I went to a couple of them after getting gift cards and wasn't  impressed. Everything was basically 15% off, so it's not a bargin. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on January 12, 2016, 09:12:00 am
It's official.  Wonder what will go in.  The Fox 23 article mentions "repurposing" the building since both businesses will be gone. Wonder if that has any deeper meaning or if is just renovating and getting new tenants?

http://www.newson6.com/story/30944270/pettys-find-foods-in-utica-square-to-close

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/utica-square-food-store-sets-closing-date/np3gh/


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 12, 2016, 10:16:42 am
Color me shocked....!!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2016, 10:34:55 am
It was only a matter of time after Walt died.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 12, 2016, 10:51:38 am
Unpossible! We were told they werent shutting down...

Quote
“The reports of our death have been greatly exaggerated,” Scott Petty, owner of Petty’s Fine Foods, told me in a telephone interview. He said that with a chuckle, but then his voice became serious. “Let me be clear. We have no plans to shut down,” he said.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/johnstancavage/john-stancavage-miss-jackson-s-petty-s-fight-back-against/article_5fd46966-3aa9-5b8c-aa0c-499e4d139172.html

So it is just a coincidence than 4 months later both Petty's and Ms. Jackson's announced closures. Sure, that seems likely... Unless the H&P "knew" these two businesses wouldn't see their leases renewed and the business owners didn't. I suspect something changed that lead both of these businesses to decide it was time to move on within weeks of each other.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 12, 2016, 11:12:01 am
Unpossible! We were told they werent shutting down...
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/johnstancavage/john-stancavage-miss-jackson-s-petty-s-fight-back-against/article_5fd46966-3aa9-5b8c-aa0c-499e4d139172.html

So it is just a coincidence than 4 months later both Petty's and Ms. Jackson's announced closures. Sure, that seems likely... Unless the H&P "knew" these two businesses wouldn't see their leases renewed and the business owners didn't. I suspect something changed that lead both of these businesses to decide it was time to move on within weeks of each other.

H&P owned Miss Jackson's.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 12, 2016, 11:53:39 am
H&P owned Miss Jackson's.

Thank you I overlooked that. I wondered how that place stayed open so long. Suppose it was seen as a loss leader?

http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/April-2010/A-history-of-Miss-Jacksons/


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 12, 2016, 12:06:44 pm
Going to miss the meat department and the bakery......For sure.....They had some unique items as well.....Service was always great...Shelves stocked and faced and the place was clean.....The only constant in life is change....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: joiei on January 12, 2016, 12:20:26 pm
THe Petty's need to find a place downtown to reopen. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on January 12, 2016, 01:12:01 pm
Will be interesting to watch what they do with the space.  Too big for H&M.  Too small for Von Maur (or Nordstrom).  UNLESS they relocate Gap/Gap Kids and Ann Taylor.  With that additional space, maybe they could squeeze in a 2-story Von Maur.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 12, 2016, 01:18:32 pm
The Natural Grocery or whatever at 32nd and Harvard would be perfect...I dont know what keeps that joint in biz....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 12, 2016, 01:24:53 pm
The Natural Grocery or whatever at 32nd and Harvard would be perfect...I dont know what keeps that joint in biz....

How do any of those supplement/grocery stores stay in business?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 12, 2016, 01:28:03 pm
The Natural Grocery or whatever at 32nd and Harvard would be perfect...I dont know what keeps that joint in biz....

My mother.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2016, 01:35:11 pm
How do any of those supplement/grocery stores stay in business?

There must be a healthy mark up in supplements, though the place in Jenks went tits up rather quickly.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: patric on January 12, 2016, 01:42:17 pm
Unlike Miss Jacksons, Pettys was always full of customers.
Still is, and the parking in front is always a game of geriatric bumbpercars.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 12, 2016, 01:58:44 pm
There must be a healthy mark up in supplements, though the place in Jenks went tits up rather quickly.

I went to that Jenks store a couple of times but I'm not sure I actually ever bought anything. The deli there carried the exact same brand of meat as Target’s deli just at $12+ a pound instead of $9. So Target level goods at Whole Foods prices with a terrible selection to go with it. They opened about the same time as the new Reasor's in Jenks and Reasor's devotes more space to Onions than that store did to all fresh foods. Just a really bad store.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on January 12, 2016, 02:07:27 pm
I'm not sure a grocery store really fits Utica Square anymore.  It would need to be a high margin type place like Whole Foods.  If you combine the spaces it would probably fit a Nordstroms or similar type store.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2016, 02:55:37 pm
I'm not sure a grocery store really fits Utica Square anymore.  It would need to be a high margin type place like Whole Foods.  If you combine the spaces it would probably fit a Nordstroms or similar type store.

Petty’s was about as high margin as it gets.  Why swap one for the other?  They used to (and may have still, no idea) do home delivery back when I was in high school.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Townsend on January 12, 2016, 03:19:20 pm
They used to (and may have still, no idea) do home delivery back when I was in high school.

Lots of places did that back in the 50's.

Heck, Sam the butcher was still delivering his meat to Alice into the early 70's.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on January 12, 2016, 03:38:36 pm
Can you fit an 2 story REI and 2 story Crate & Barrel on the Petty's/Miss Jackson's site?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2016, 04:27:58 pm

Heck, Sam the butcher was still delivering his meat to Alice into the early 70’s.


I thought that was completely platonic.  :o


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 13, 2016, 06:11:27 am
How do any of those supplement/grocery stores stay in business?

Beats me been in there a couple of times....Dead as a door nail....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Jeff P on January 13, 2016, 09:47:34 am
Nordstrom Outlet, that's an oxymoron. I went to a couple of them after getting gift cards and wasn't  impressed. Everything was basically 15% off, so it's not a bargin. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

Really?

I've always had pretty good luck at Nordstrom Rack.  Way better luck than any other "outlet" type store.  I've bought two pretty nice Hugo Boss suits there for a pretty nice discount.  (They retail for around $900 and I got both of them for around $400.)   

The key is that the most common sizes (40R, 42R, 44R) are few and far between.  You have to kind of get lucky based on when they get new stuff.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 13, 2016, 11:53:30 am
Lots of places did that back in the 50's.

Heck, Sam the butcher was still delivering his meat to Alice into the early 70's.

Alice got a deep discount on the tube-steak from Sam....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 13, 2016, 01:31:55 pm
New article in the world about the closing With some interesting quotes.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/petty-s-fine-foods-out-at-utica-square-i-think/article_e0205593-8064-585e-b49c-75f18995b031.html

It wasn't Petty's idea to close, and they may well reopen:
Quote
On Tuesday, Petty said his grocery could still reopen elsewhere. He pegged the odds of it happening at about 50-50.
“There’s no timetable for something like that,” he said. “I think it depends on what opportunities are out there, what other people might show us or present to us, what we might see on our own.
“We would probably do something similar, possibly even smaller. … Location is everything. … People have talked to us about the Brady District and far south Tulsa, places like that.”

It's about H&P wanting the space:
Quote
Business was a factor in Petty’s closing, but not the main one, Petty said.
“It’s not what we would’ve liked for it to be, so that plays into it,” Petty said. “It’s not the sole reason.”
The main reason, he said, is “I think the landlord has other plans for the building.”

Most interestingly, sounds like the whole building may go:
Quote
Petty said the pair of closings isn’t an indictment of the health of the shopping center.
“I don’t think it’s a reflection on Utica Square. I think it’s more the building. That’s an old building. And the building may be at the end of its useful life,” he said.
The building was built in 1965 and is just under 59,000 square feet, according to Tulsa County property records.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 13, 2016, 01:38:25 pm
If I remember the story correctly, there was a *gasp* bowling alley in that area of Utica Square until 1964 or thereabouts.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 13, 2016, 02:58:02 pm
If I remember the story correctly, there was a *gasp* bowling alley in that area of Utica Square until 1964 or thereabouts.

Quote
Walt Helmerich didn't build Utica Square but he built Utica Square.
That seeming contradiction is easy to explain. He didn't build the buildings. But he built the Square into a unique Tulsa shopping center.
The center was built by Dale Carter, a lumber and building materials supplier, and Don Nix, a real estate developer. It opened in May 1952. It was Tulsa's first shopping center, loosely patterned after the highly successful Country Club Plaza in Kansas City.
Helmerich was in the oil business. Helmerich and Payne was a major drilling contractor. Walt, the son of that company's founder, approached Carter and Nix about buying the Square. He thought he had a deal.
But Nix backed out. Eventually Carter and Nix sold the center, in 1963, to Bill Kistler. That same year a fire destroyed the Square building that housed the Southwest's largest bowling alley. Kistler rebuilt -- that building now houses Miss Jackson's, Petty's Fine Foods and other stores.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/the-tulsa-difference/article_4d710138-fc0b-5ac5-abdd-01b539d2c93a.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/the-tulsa-difference/article_4d710138-fc0b-5ac5-abdd-01b539d2c93a.html)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: hello on January 13, 2016, 04:25:46 pm
Beggars can't be choosers but I'm not too excited for Petty's in the Brady. I would like a more reasonably priced grocery store.   :-\


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DTowner on January 13, 2016, 05:04:52 pm
Beggars can't be choosers but I'm not too excited for Petty's in the Brady. I would like a more reasonably priced grocery store.   :-\

An urban store will not be as cheap (or as big) as non-urban stores.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on January 13, 2016, 10:45:04 pm
Beggars can't be choosers but I'm not too excited for Petty's in the Brady. I would like a more reasonably priced grocery store.   :-\

Is this a possibility?  I hope Petty's lands somewhere else in Tulsa.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: patric on January 13, 2016, 11:12:51 pm
If I remember the story correctly, there was a *gasp* bowling alley in that area of Utica Square until 1964 or thereabouts.

and a headshop.  The Et Cetera House had stairs going down to the basement shop lined with black-light posters and strobe lights.

It was groovy.  Mom used to take me there.  ;D


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 14, 2016, 06:42:00 am
If I remember the story correctly, there was a *gasp* bowling alley in that area of Utica Square until 1964 or thereabouts.

Owned by Ted Seiler who also owned Sheridan Lanes.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 14, 2016, 08:18:50 am
Is this a possibility?  I hope Petty's lands somewhere else in Tulsa.

The owner said was 50/50 that they would open a new location.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 15, 2016, 07:23:37 am
Bumgarner should do something good for the city and help put Pettys at 15th and Uitca........


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 15, 2016, 07:33:00 am
Situated near a new store around the corner on 15th (I forget the name), a popular farmers market on Saturdays, and the nearby Reasors which has made improvements to their store would make it hard to succeed there. However, I agree the demographics are right.

I think a location just south of downtown would be good too.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on January 15, 2016, 11:09:39 am
Brady would really be a great place right now. In terms of foot traffic at all hours of the day, Brady seems to be the best downtown right now. Blue Dome would be another neat spot but I can't think of a specific location for a grocery store right now.

The place at the west corner of Main and Brady (across the street west from the Tavern) was rumored to be a mini-mart/convenient store a long time ago. It looks like some part of that building could be a location for a Perrys, if scaled down a bit.

The Brady District is a much more interesting place to walk around than Utica Square. I have been to the Brady District dozens of times in the last year for various events, to eat, meet friends or just walk around. I have been to Utica Square maybe once or twice for lunch and a Thursday concert. Utica Square is nice but it is boring and is an old-fashioned suburban mall with not much to do for men if you hate Starbucks.

Brady has better food options, bars, art galleries, shops and much better coffee (Chimera!). It might be a more promising location for Perrys because the demand is there for a grocery store already with thousands of new residents on the way. Also, Brady has become a destination for First Friday Art Crawls, soccer/baseball and Guthrie Green. If there was a grocer, they'd get people coming in for picnic stuff along with big peaks during events which they don't get at Utica. They would lose a lot of the upscale customers but they'd gain new customers in an ever increasing demographic of urban dwellers. I know I would go there more if it were in the Brady District. It is nice to be able to grab a cold drink or snack when you're walking around there. They would probably need to stay open somewhat late on weekends.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on January 15, 2016, 11:31:15 am
Downtown would be a good place to relocate.  The new residents would probably be willing to pay a few extra dollars to avoid getting in their cars and going to Reasors at 15th and Lewis.  They could probably also drop the "Fine Foods" moniker too and still be profitable.  The upscale identity probably made more sense at Utica Square next to Miss Jacksons than it would anywhere else.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Townsend on January 15, 2016, 12:13:33 pm
Downtown would be a good place to relocate.  The new residents would probably be willing to pay a few extra dollars to avoid getting in their cars and going to Reasors at 15th and Lewis.  They could probably also drop the "Fine Foods" moniker too and still be profitable.  The upscale identity probably made more sense at Utica Square next to Miss Jacksons than it would anywhere else.

I thought I saw a plan for a grocery store to go in the PAC lot.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 15, 2016, 12:16:38 pm
I thought I saw a plan for a grocery store to go in the PAC lot.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21006.msg300756#msg300756 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21006.msg300756#msg300756)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Townsend on January 15, 2016, 12:17:06 pm
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21006.msg300756#msg300756 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21006.msg300756#msg300756)


Yeah...that


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on January 15, 2016, 02:00:56 pm
A Petty's-sized and style store makes the most sense downtown.  I would still like to see an urban Reasors on the PAC lot and Petty's in Riverview (15th & Main area).  Lots of opportunity for residential infill directly around there and close proximity to high income households that don't want to go to Reasors at 41st & Peoria or 15th & Lewis, or to Whole Foods. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 15, 2016, 02:02:12 pm
A Petty's-sized and style store makes the most sense downtown.  I would still like to see an urban Reasors on the PAC lot and Petty's in Riverview (15th & Main area).  Lots of opportunity for residential infill directly around there and close proximity to high income households that don't want to go to Reasors at 41st & Peoria or 15th & Lewis, or to Whole Foods. 

There's the old Safeway store at 18th and Boston, it's currently an art gallery.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 15, 2016, 02:15:09 pm
There's the old Safeway store at 18th and Boston, it's currently an art gallery.

I always thought the old Safeway was where Burnco and Dalesandro’s is.  Here’s a thread on this from 2009, honestly I can’t picture in my mind which building this facade is on and I was just at BC on Tuesday.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13643.30


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on January 15, 2016, 02:15:47 pm
There's the old Safeway store at 18th and Boston, it's currently an art gallery.

Next to the wine bar/Burnco?  Anywhere in that area would be a good place for Petty's.  I would love to see a surface lot go away and new Petty's built up to the sidewalk with big windows and a side cafe/coffee shop next to their deli.  :)

I think the Gathering Place is going to have a major impact on that area after it opens.  The Bomasada project at 18th & Denver is only the beginning.  Having a grocery will help accelerate any future development.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: rebound on January 15, 2016, 02:21:49 pm
Next to the wine bar/Burnco?  Anywhere in that area would be a good place for Petty's.  I would love to see a surface lot go away and new Petty's built up to the sidewalk with big windows and a side cafe/coffee shop next to their deli.  :)

I think the Gathering Place is going to have a major impact on that area after it opens.  The Bomasada project at 18th & Denver is only the beginning.  Having a grocery will help accelerate any future development.

Agreed.  The whole Riverview area, for a variety of reasons, is set to really take off.  A friend of mine is looking for a smaller home to invest in fix up, and I pointed him to that area.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 15, 2016, 02:23:41 pm
Don't forget the old Louisianne property at 18th and Boston adjacent to the bike path.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 16, 2016, 08:55:03 am
18th and Boston would be a great place for Pettys.......


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 16, 2016, 11:47:47 am
There would be a lot of bike and walk-up customers.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on January 16, 2016, 12:05:00 pm
Don't forget the old Louisianne property at 18th and Boston adjacent to the bike path.

Is there anything currently in that space? 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 16, 2016, 12:07:53 pm
Is there anything currently in that space? 

Empty....Has been for a long time.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 16, 2016, 01:57:05 pm
Empty....Has been for a long time.....

That building is a mess. I thought it was going to come down a long time ago.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 16, 2016, 02:09:14 pm
That building is a mess. I thought it was going to come down a long time ago.

Needs to for the new Petty's..... ;D


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 16, 2016, 05:40:03 pm
Needs to go. I suppose its cheaper to leave it standing. The homeless and the wildlife are grateful.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on January 16, 2016, 08:17:37 pm
Needs to go. I suppose its cheaper to leave it standing. The homeless and the wildlife are grateful.

From what I have heard the number of times it's been chopped up inside for different uses including load sharing walls it's surprising it's still standing.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 16, 2016, 11:47:36 pm
From what I have heard the number of times it's been chopped up inside for different uses including load sharing walls it's surprising it's still standing.

From this article it looks like there were at least three other occupants after the Louisiane closed permanently in the early 90's so it's possible that it may be cost prohibitive to try and reopen it. But you never know.

http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/May-2015/Elegant-to-empty/ (http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/May-2015/Elegant-to-empty/)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 17, 2016, 07:24:47 pm
From this article it looks like there were at least three other occupants after the Louisiane closed permanently in the early 90's so it's possible that it may be cost prohibitive to try and reopen it. But you never know.

http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/May-2015/Elegant-to-empty/ (http://www.tulsapeople.com/Tulsa-People/May-2015/Elegant-to-empty/)


This was just when I was at Urban Tulsa from ’91 to ’93:

The Brick at (or on) Boston which was Nick Samara’s place (yes same family as the Celebrity Club, he’s Mike’s son)
Breck’s which was owned by one of the Breckenridge boys
I’m trying to remember if this also was part of the space that had a few bars.  I think that may have been separated by a wall on the west side of the building.

And there was an ad agency upstairs I dealt with.  Funny thing is, I remember very little about the inside of it. 

Speaking of the Louisianne.  I dealt with Bill Poulos at the Louisianne that re-opened out at 81st & Memorial.  That was a Kitchell-esque financial disaster from the beginning.  Poulos was the same guy who came up with the concept of “team rodeo”.  Kind of a gangster/con man with a cowboy hat.

There’s little doubt that lot would be better served by a teardown.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on January 17, 2016, 09:47:03 pm
I think it was briefly a jazz club as well......


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 18, 2016, 05:12:08 am
Safeway used to love this area. The old Nine of Cups building, the building now housing Burnco and the Louisiane were all old Safeway grocery stores. So, there is some grocery history there.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Vision 2025 on January 18, 2016, 03:01:22 pm
Don't forget the old Louisianne property at 18th and Boston adjacent to the bike path.
Now that brings back memories of great meals.  Thanks!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Vision 2025 on January 18, 2016, 03:13:39 pm
Safeway used to love this area. The old Nine of Cups building, the building now housing Burnco and the Louisiane were all old Safeway grocery stores. So, there is some grocery history there.
Humm,  Back in the day... you sure where Burnco is wasn't the BAM (Boston Avenue Market) and then the Cups was a block further North and to complete the trifecta there was the Magicians theater a bit to the NW?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 18, 2016, 03:26:10 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-from-hippies-to-well-heeled-nine-of-cups/article_223dfc98-aff6-5ff3-a5a9-6f6944987cf2.html?TNNoMobile (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-from-hippies-to-well-heeled-nine-of-cups/article_223dfc98-aff6-5ff3-a5a9-6f6944987cf2.html?TNNoMobile)


http://www.tulsaworld.com/weekend/cover_story/live-tulsa-sound-now-closed-venues-dating-to-s-helped/article_eac754c1-a59e-5121-9deb-24aea557cd65.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/weekend/cover_story/live-tulsa-sound-now-closed-venues-dating-to-s-helped/article_eac754c1-a59e-5121-9deb-24aea557cd65.html)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: patric on January 18, 2016, 03:35:37 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-from-hippies-to-well-heeled-nine-of-cups/article_223dfc98-aff6-5ff3-a5a9-6f6944987cf2.html?TNNoMobile (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-from-hippies-to-well-heeled-nine-of-cups/article_223dfc98-aff6-5ff3-a5a9-6f6944987cf2.html?TNNoMobile)


http://www.tulsaworld.com/weekend/cover_story/live-tulsa-sound-now-closed-venues-dating-to-s-helped/article_eac754c1-a59e-5121-9deb-24aea557cd65.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/weekend/cover_story/live-tulsa-sound-now-closed-venues-dating-to-s-helped/article_eac754c1-a59e-5121-9deb-24aea557cd65.html)

What a cool interior.  Only Impressions on 15th & Lewis came close IMHO.  I wonder if all the barn wood is still there?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: joiei on January 18, 2016, 03:39:05 pm
There would be a lot of bike and walk-up customers.
But do they spend any money?  Your out for a 30 mile bike ride.  Are you really going stop and pick up dinner in the middle of your ride? 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 18, 2016, 03:55:02 pm
What a cool interior.  Only Impressions on 15th & Lewis came close IMHO.  I wonder if all the barn wood is still there?

Makes you wonder. I never had the chance to go to those places, when I was old enough, it was "The Play" at what is now 71st and Peoria, The Great Escape where I saw Robin Trower, the Sunset Grill,  the original Blue Rose, Casko's, and some of the hotels had good bands playing in the bars.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: PonderInc on January 18, 2016, 04:01:57 pm
But do they spend any money?  Your out for a 30 mile bike ride.  Are you really going stop and pick up dinner in the middle of your ride?  
In cities where bike lanes have been built, they've done studies of how this impacts adjacent businesses.  Cyclists actually spend less money per shopping trip, but they make more trips to their destinations.  (They are more likely to make several small shopping runs, for example, rather than one big one on Saturday.)  Meanwhile, because bike parking takes up less space than car parking, it's actually possible to serve more customers at once, if you're located along a popular bike route.

So all those places that worried about losing on-street car parking spaces actually ended up getting the same or more sales after the bike lanes went in.  

If memory serves, they also mentioned that cyclists spent more money on eating and drinking than the average car driver.  Go figure.  Something about burning calories?  Or just being generally young and single?  Not sure, but it's "food for thought."

I ride my bike all the time, and it's usually for no more than 7 miles per trip.  I ride to the grocery store and to work several times a week.  I'd ride to more destinations if they were convenient and safe for cycling.  When I lived close to downtown, I rode to dinner all the time.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 18, 2016, 07:43:13 pm
Humm,  Back in the day... you sure where Burnco is wasn't the BAM (Boston Avenue Market) and then the Cups was a block further North and to complete the trifecta there was the Magicians theater a bit to the NW?

I spent some time perusing the Beryl Ford collection and noticed that Safeway had been in all three of those locations. We used to call it the "Boston Avenue Meat Market" cause it was such a great pick up bar.

It was a dangerous neighborhood in the 70's which made it all the more fun till someone slashed my tires behind BAM. But Magicians was special. Guava and the GAP band were so cool. The food at the Cups was always good and it was always crowded.

A good bulk coffee retailer was nearby. It later moved to Brookside. The name escapes me.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Red Arrow on January 18, 2016, 07:51:36 pm
A good bulk coffee retailer was nearby. It later moved to Brookside. The name escapes me.

Mecca?



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Red Arrow on January 18, 2016, 07:53:42 pm
It was a dangerous neighborhood in the 70's which made it all the more fun till someone slashed my tires behind BAM.

All the more reason for a trolley.
 
 :D


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: AquaMan on January 18, 2016, 07:58:55 pm
Yeah, Mecca. It was a hopping area. El Charrito, Louisiane, Mecca, BAM, a liquor store, a paint store, Phoenix cleaners, Nine of Cups, Magicians, and a real service station, a fire station, Boulder Park and the River Parks. Everything we needed within walking distance of our house. I would love to have had a trolley circling the area instead of tipsy drivers.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 18, 2016, 08:27:06 pm
I spent some time perusing the Beryl Ford collection and noticed that Safeway had been in all three of those locations. We used to call it the "Boston Avenue Meat Market" cause it was such a great pick up bar.

It was a dangerous neighborhood in the 70's which made it all the more fun till someone slashed my tires behind BAM. But Magicians was special. Guava and the GAP band were so cool. The food at the Cups was always good and it was always crowded.

A good bulk coffee retailer was nearby. It later moved to Brookside. The name escapes me.

I will never forget remember a night spent dancing on tables at the Nine of Cups not long before it closed.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 19, 2016, 09:19:46 am
But do they spend any money?  Your out for a 30 mile bike ride.  Are you really going stop and pick up dinner in the middle of your ride? 

Middle of the ride?  No. But after the ride, I do fairly often. Conan and I stop at a Thai buffet regularly. But as far as stopping to get groceries while out on an exercise ride... no. But riding my towney to the store - sure.  Just like not a lot of people take their Harley grocery shopping or their 'Vet to pick up lumber - my Bianchi is the wrong bike for that job.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 19, 2016, 10:31:02 am
Middle of the ride?  No. But after the ride, I do fairly often. Conan and I stop at a Thai buffet regularly. But as far as stopping to get groceries while out on an exercise ride... no. But riding my towney to the store - sure.  Just like not a lot of people take their Harley grocery shopping or their 'Vet to pick up lumber - my Bianchi is the wrong bike for that job.

But we have stopped at a brewery in the middle of our ride before on said Bianchis.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 19, 2016, 12:24:10 pm
But we have stopped at a brewery in the middle of our ride before on said Bianchis.

Oh, hell yes. Both Prairie and Marshall's. I've also stopped at River/s Edge/Elwood, Blue Rose, food trucks, shaved ive places, the Mexican place out near Jenks, and...well, OK. I stop a bunch.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SouthTulsaCountyDude on February 12, 2016, 04:12:04 pm
Updates?  What NEW rumors.....are going around as to what is coming into the space that was Miss Jackson's/Petty's ??


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dsjeffries on April 15, 2016, 08:51:12 am
Miss Jackson's, Petty's at Utica Square slated for demolition within 60 days (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/miss-jackson-s-petty-s-at-utica-square-slated-for/article_c5889bff-db89-5096-aebe-ccf3689dc0d9.html) (Tulsa World)

Quote
The building that once housed Miss Jackson's and Petty's at Utica Square will be demolished.

Helmerich & Payne said in a news release Friday morning that the building will demolished within the next 60 days.

“We are pleased to announce the redevelopment of a cornerstone location in Utica Square. We are finalizing our design for a new building and will release further details in a timely fashion," said Jessica Barr, property manager at Utica Square in a statement.

The then 106-year-old Miss Jackson's closed in early January, and Petty's followed a little more than a month later. They left a prime piece of retail space at one of Tulsa's premier shopping centers, which will now make way for a new building.

When Helmerich & Payne announced the closing of Miss Jackson's, they said it was because they thought the store's business model was not sustainable.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on April 15, 2016, 09:07:29 am
Demolition was expected.  The question is will this be multiple retailers or one single tenant?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on April 15, 2016, 09:30:28 am
Big footprint department stores seem to be a dying breed.  If they go that route hopefully the building can be easily retrofitted for smaller tenants if it becomes necessary.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on April 15, 2016, 09:41:52 am
Athleta is rumored to be going in somewhere in Utica Square.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LandArchPoke on April 15, 2016, 10:23:18 am
Athleta is rumored to be going in somewhere in Utica Square.....

I've heard this as well. It was several months ago, and I want to say it might be going in the American Eagle space? Could be wrong though.

Demolition was expected.  The question is will this be multiple retailers or one single tenant?

I don't think they have a set plan still. They are taking their time to make sure it's the right fit. I've heard they are considering a multi-use/multi-story building. Maybe a 1-2 level retail with apartments or office above. There is a push to get some of these lower rent paying tenants like American Eagle, Talbot's, etc. or either downsize or get rid of them to replace them with higher-end trendier tenants. I think people will be surprised at the turn over we will see at Utica in the next 1-2 years. It will be for the better though. I know 1 of the largest retailers there will be leaving in the next year as they want a much larger space and Utica can't accommodate them.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dsjeffries on April 15, 2016, 10:48:22 am
I know 1 of the largest retailers there will be leaving in the next year as they want a much larger space and Utica can't accommodate them.

Can they not add another floor?

And I'd love to see some residential built above the commercial spaces.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on April 15, 2016, 11:03:26 am
I've heard this as well. It was several months ago, and I want to say it might be going in the American Eagle space? Could be wrong though.

I don't think they have a set plan still. They are taking their time to make sure it's the right fit. I've heard they are considering a multi-use/multi-story building. Maybe a 1-2 level retail with apartments or office above. There is a push to get some of these lower rent paying tenants like American Eagle, Talbot's, etc. or either downsize or get rid of them to replace them with higher-end trendier tenants. I think people will be surprised at the turn over we will see at Utica in the next 1-2 years. It will be for the better though. I know 1 of the largest retailers there will be leaving in the next year as they want a much larger space and Utica can't accommodate them.

Utica can't accommodate them even with the redevelopment of the Miss Jackson's/Petty's space?  Looking over the list of current tenants, it's hard to imagine any of them wanting/needing to expand to such an extent that Utica could not accommodate them.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on April 15, 2016, 03:50:40 pm
H&M


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Ibanez on April 15, 2016, 06:03:00 pm
H&M

After taking the time to walk into one of their stores in NYC last Fall I give this idea a hearty meh.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on April 15, 2016, 06:18:50 pm
H&M

God no. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LandArchPoke on April 15, 2016, 08:10:30 pm
H&M

I was told Utica told H&M no/never gonna happen. That H&M does not fit the "vibe" of Utica - i.e. they are not high-end enough.

Utica can't accommodate them even with the redevelopment of the Miss Jackson's/Petty's space?  Looking over the list of current tenants, it's hard to imagine any of them wanting/needing to expand to such an extent that Utica could not accommodate them.

They probably could fit in this space, I just have a feeling the Utica Square people want to do multi-tenant mixed-use on this site versus one large retailer unless they can get Nordstrom or Neiman. What I was told is that Utica can't accommodate them if they want to expand - I don't know if that's a they can't, or they won't.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on April 15, 2016, 08:31:38 pm
I was told Utica told H&M no/never gonna happen. That H&M does not fit the "vibe" of Utica - i.e. they are not high-end enough.

They probably could fit in this space, I just have a feeling the Utica Square people want to do multi-tenant mixed-use on this site versus one large retailer unless they can get Nordstrom or Neiman. What I was told is that Utica can't accommodate them if they want to expand - I don't know if that's a they can't, or they won't.

I can't imagine Neiman happening. Tulsa is way too small. Nordstrom could, but I'm guessing they want the Sears location at Woodland which will be available at some point in the near future.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 25, 2016, 07:54:38 am
We knew this was being demolished and earlier they said they won't build the new building until they sign new leases, but the bolded info says they are actively finalizing the plan and will announce soon:
 
Former Miss Jackson's, Petty's building at Utica Square demolished

Quote
Crews on Sunday began demolishing the former Miss Jackson’s and Petty’s Fine Foods building in Utica Square.
Helmerich & Payne said in a news release earlier this month that the building would be demolished within the next 60 days.
The 106-year-old Miss Jackson’s closed in early January, and Petty’s followed a little more than a month later. They left open a prime piece of retail space at one of Tulsa’s premier shopping centers, which will now make way for a new building.
“We are pleased to announce the redevelopment of a cornerstone location in Utica Square. We are finalizing our design for a new building and will release further details in a timely fashion,” said Jessica Barr, property manager at Utica Square in a statement earlier this month.
In an interview with the World earlier this month, Barr said that, following demolition, construction would not begin on the new building “until we sign leases.”
She didn’t offer a timeline for when the building will be built, how many tenants it would accommodate, or how close it would be in size to the current 50,000-square-foot building.
“It (the building) had just outlived its useful life,” Barr said. “It’s an exciting time for Utica Square.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/former-miss-jackson-s-petty-s-building-at-utica-square/article_b440e733-9108-59ed-a828-6fa24ca5468f.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/former-miss-jackson-s-petty-s-building-at-utica-square/article_b440e733-9108-59ed-a828-6fa24ca5468f.html)

As others mentioned, it would be really neat if they took an urban twist with this and made it a mixed-use development. There are a few other upscale condo areas nearby and I could see demand for a small hotel in Utica Square. It is probably smart to wait to see what tenants they will get so they can build something that will appease them long-term.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 25, 2016, 08:08:30 am
That's great!  In 5 months they went from having "no plans" to remove two major anchor tenants, to them being gone, demolishing the building, and finalizing plans for a new anchor tenant and a new building. If one didn't know better, one might suspect the insistence that there were no plans back in November might not be the entire truth...

[modified to remove the word "evict"]


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on April 25, 2016, 08:51:45 am
That's great!  In 5 months they went from having "no plans" to evict two major anchor tenants, to evicting them,.

"Evicted" or convinced to not renew their leases?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: carltonplace on April 25, 2016, 09:30:47 am
"Evicted" or convinced to not renew their leases?

I worked for a restaurant in Utica Square that was "convinced" not to renew its lease. The method at the time was to quadruple the lease which was pretty convincing.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 25, 2016, 10:12:44 am
I worked for a restaurant in Utica Square that was "convinced" not to renew its lease. The method at the time was to quadruple the lease which was pretty convincing.

It is rough for the community when property owners do this, especially with popular places doing pretty well. It is bad for small businesses and their customers.

That was supposedly the reason White Owl closed. White Owl was a neat place with a lot of fans. It was a shame they closed it and remodeled what was a perfectly good space (and took out the pool table). The Pint is fine but I preferred White Owl. The Pint has ok food and about the same atmosphere but looks worse (just tacky selection of colors/booths/etc - looks like a chain restaurant mixed in with what was a more organic-looking hole-in-the-wall that White Owl was).


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 25, 2016, 10:29:22 am
"Evicted" or convinced to not renew their leases?

You're right. No one was evicted, I was just trying to convey that they were fairly rapidly shut down and moved out. As I understand it, the property company owned Ms. Jackson's and Petty's lease simply wasn't renewed. The point I was trying to make was that they went from "no plans" to remove either of those tenants to them both being gone and moving on very rapidly.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 25, 2016, 10:46:29 am
It is rough for the community when property owners do this, especially with popular places doing pretty well. It is bad for small businesses and their customers.

That was supposedly the reason White Owl closed. White Owl was a neat place with a lot of fans. It was a shame they closed it and remodeled what was a perfectly good space (and took out the pool table). The Pint is fine but I preferred White Owl. The Pint has ok food and about the same atmosphere but looks worse (just tacky selection of colors/booths/etc - looks like a chain restaurant mixed in with what was a more organic-looking hole-in-the-wall that White Owl was).

I think you are being overly-kind to The Pint.  We were very “meh” on it.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on April 25, 2016, 10:57:47 am
That wasn't the reason the White Owl closed.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on April 25, 2016, 12:23:44 pm
That wasn't the reason the White Owl closed.

Quote
That was supposedly the reason White Owl closed.

Then what was the reason? There were discussions on here and by other people who mentioned increased rent.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: carltonplace on April 25, 2016, 03:07:01 pm
I think you are being overly-kind to The Pint.  We were very “meh” on it.

I'm a solid Meh minus. White owl was good pub food, friendly staff. The Pint is not.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on April 25, 2016, 08:46:14 pm
White Owl closed because the owners got a little retarded about their business.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 25, 2016, 08:48:59 pm
White Owl closed because the owners got a little retarded about their business.....

That’s a pandemic in the Tulsa restaurant and bar scene


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on April 26, 2016, 04:03:56 pm
White Owl closed because the owners got a little retarded about their business.....

Or they just didn't get along.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on April 26, 2016, 04:06:02 pm
I thought the White Owl story was a divorce between the owners.  Or was that another place?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LeGenDz on April 26, 2016, 07:14:24 pm
White Owl closed because the owners got a little retarded about their business.....
Not to mention he made sure to completely trash the place on the last day.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on April 26, 2016, 08:03:08 pm
I thought the White Owl story was a divorce between the owners.  Or was that another place?

That didn't help...But that was not all of it....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 27, 2016, 07:32:03 am
That didn't help...But that was not all of it....

The hint dropping...The coyness...The ellipses...They're not helpful...


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on April 28, 2016, 12:07:45 pm
I still think it would be great to have REI here.  Maybe a 2 story REI and a 2 story Crate & Barrel.  And Fresh Market across the parking lot next to Yorktown.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on April 28, 2016, 12:20:49 pm
I still think it would be great to have REI here.  Maybe a 2 story REI and a 2 story Crate & Barrel.  And Fresh Market across the parking lot next to Yorktown.

How about REI with restaurants on the second floor with a W Hotel and some condos above.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 28, 2016, 12:51:36 pm
I still think it would be great to have REI here.  Maybe a 2 story REI and a 2 story Crate & Barrel.  And Fresh Market across the parking lot next to Yorktown.

Quote from: swake
How about REI with restaurants on the second floor with a W Hotel and some condos above.

Any or all of these would be awesome.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 28, 2016, 12:55:57 pm
Keep swinging for the fences!  Some good ideas right there!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: erfalf on April 28, 2016, 01:15:25 pm
Something like a Magnolia Theatre in the West Village would be pretty cool here. There is plenty of shopping and restaurants, but no real entertainment options. An artsy theater makes sense here just about as much as anywhere else.

http://www.westvillagedallas.com/tenant/magnolia-theatre-bar/
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/968316/size/tl-horizontal_main/the-8-most-badass-movie-theaters-in-dallas.jpg)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: CharlieSheen on April 28, 2016, 01:41:22 pm
How about REI with restaurants on the second floor with a W Hotel and some condos above.

I don't know if this is why you mentioned a hotel.  But having the hospital across the street the hotel rooms could be much needed.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: erfalf on April 28, 2016, 01:49:09 pm
I don't know if this is why you mentioned a hotel.  But having the hospital across the street the hotel rooms could be much needed.

Not typically the types of rooms that you would expect at a W (or anything I would expect to be in Utica Square for that matter).


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: CharlieSheen on April 28, 2016, 02:02:54 pm
Guess what.. If you need to stay in a hotel by the hospital and you can afford to stay in whatever room.  You are going to stay there.  Maybe its a Hilton :D


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on April 28, 2016, 03:06:26 pm
Not typically the types of rooms that you would expect at a W (or anything I would expect to be in Utica Square for that matter).

I would expect that a true upscale brand would be in Utica Square. I've always been surprised there aren't hotels near the hospitals on Utica or in Utica Square. Or in Brookside for that matter.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 28, 2016, 03:16:53 pm
I would expect that a true upscale brand would be in Utica Square. I've always been surprised there aren't hotels near the hospitals on Utica or in Utica Square. Or in Brookside for that matter.

Missed opportunity at 15th & Utica.  Maybe Bumgarner’s land just south of the BA and the Philips 66 spot could work.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 28, 2016, 03:19:40 pm
Missed opportunity at 15th & Utica.  Maybe Bumgarner’s land just south of the BA and the Philips 66 spot could work.

That's a perfect place for a hotel. Halfway between the two hospitals.

The empty lot on the NW corner of 21st at Utica would work, too. Right by St. John's and Utica Sq.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: rebound on April 28, 2016, 03:47:38 pm
That's a perfect place for a hotel. Halfway between the two hospitals.

The empty lot on the NW corner of 21st at Utica would work, too. Right by St. John's and Utica Sq.

Ok, probably getting ready to get shot down here.  But are you/we looking for a boutique hotel, or a more mainstream hotel to cater to hospital traffic.   A hotel, IMHO, can't be both.  I do think there is need for a hotel to accommodate the hospitals, but it's not going to be a Hotel San Jose (Austin) or similar.  I do think, like an earlier post, a really cool upscale boutique hotel would work near Brookside though.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on April 28, 2016, 04:48:12 pm
Ok, probably getting ready to get shot down here.  But are you/we looking for a boutique hotel, or a more mainstream hotel to cater to hospital traffic.   A hotel, IMHO, can't be both.  I do think there is need for a hotel to accommodate the hospitals, but it's not going to be a Hotel San Jose (Austin) or similar.  I do think, like an earlier post, a really cool upscale boutique hotel would work near Brookside though.

Frankly the area needs both. The two hospitals need good mainstream hotels and Utica should always have had hotel(s). The Plaza in KC that Utica was modeled after has a bunch of them.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 28, 2016, 07:52:07 pm
I’m rather surprised nothing has ever gone in where the old H & P building was on the NW corner of 21st & Utica especially since Walt is gone.  I gather he was kind of a “rev limiter” on what his kids wanted to do at Utica Square and elsewhere.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on April 28, 2016, 07:56:27 pm
I still think it would be great to have REI here.  Maybe a 2 story REI and a 2 story Crate & Barrel.  And Fresh Market across the parking lot next to Yorktown.

Agree.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 29, 2016, 08:09:23 am
the old H & P building was on the NW corner of 21st & Utica

Anyone have a pic of that?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 29, 2016, 09:11:32 am
Anyone have a pic of that?

My Google Fu is not strong today, I cannot find a photo of it.  It was a great example of Tulsa’s MCM commercial architecture of the 1950’s & 1960’s.  I don’t even remember when they demo’d it.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on April 29, 2016, 10:12:37 am
My Google Fu is not strong today, I cannot find a photo of it.  It was a great example of Tulsa’s MCM commercial architecture of the 1950’s & 1960’s.  I don’t even remember when they demo’d it.

I think originally the move to the Boulder Bank building was supposed to be temporary while they built a new HQ on the site of the old one.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 29, 2016, 10:57:48 am
Photo courtesy of Shane Hood.  It was originally the Dowell building and this was before upper floors were added to it.  This should be looking at the building from the south as I recall.

(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/HPHQ_zpswe2gv1pv.jpeg)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 29, 2016, 12:21:40 pm
http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll4/id/531/rec/2

Is this is?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 29, 2016, 12:25:49 pm
http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll4/id/531/rec/2

Is this is?

Yep.

No idea why images are so hard to come by. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 29, 2016, 12:53:23 pm
Found plenty of news articles from 2003 saying they intend to build a new HQ at 21st & Utica in six years. That ever gonna happen?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on April 29, 2016, 12:59:20 pm
Found plenty of news articles from 2003 saying they intend to build a new HQ at 21st & Utica in six years. That ever gonna happen?

Not with oil at $45/bbl, it won’t.

Did the articles mention anything about the building being torn down?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on April 29, 2016, 01:33:16 pm
"'Our eventual plan is to raze the building and, at some point, rebuild.' Mackey said the seven-story structure in the northwest corner of 21st Street and Utica Avenue will be demolished within a year."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/h-p-plans-new-tulsa-home/article_b6f9723f-104e-54c9-ae37-6731e9dfb1e2.html

And maybe I misunderstood the six year time frame. Rereading these, it says they had no firm plans to for the new building at the time they moved out. Six years refers to how long they planned to stay in the building on Boulder.

http://newsok.com/article/1944635


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on May 16, 2016, 11:33:25 am
Noted that Talbot's recently relocated within Utica Square, freeing up another space near the former spaces of Miss Jackson's and Petty's.  I wonder if Gap/Gap Kids and Ann Taylor will be next to go or relocate, creating an even larger available footprint for whatever is planned to replace Miss Jackson's and Petty's.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 16, 2016, 12:47:53 pm
Noted that Talbot's recently relocated within Utica Square, freeing up another space near the former spaces of Miss Jackson's and Petty's.  I wonder if Gap/Gap Kids and Ann Taylor will be next to go or relocate, creating an even larger available footprint for whatever is planned to replace Miss Jackson's and Petty's.

Athleta and Evereve are taking the Tablot's space. Ann Taylor isn't likely to relocate - it's one of Ascena's stronger/better performing brands currently. 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on May 16, 2016, 04:12:49 pm
Athleta and Evereve are taking the Tablot's space. Ann Taylor isn't likely to relocate - it's one of Ascena's stronger/better performing brands currently.  

Oh yes.  I see now that Athleta is taking the former Talbot's space.  (According to Utica Square's website, Evereve is going in the vacant space between J Spencer and BGB.)

Re: Ann Taylor, FWIW, a brand's national strength doesn't tell us much at all about the likelihood of relocating.  There are too many other variables, e.g., the brand might be strong but an individual store may not be; the store could be encouraged to relocate by the landlord for redevelopment/re-merchandising; the store might relocate for a better or larger (or smaller) location.  Having said that, there are no obvious spots in Utica Square to which they could relocate; so, if the brand is indeed strong, and if this store is strong, and if Ann Taylor fits into Utica Square's merchandising strategy, I guess my theory of a larger redevelopment site may not hold water.

(So, it's curtains for the Utica Square Gap store, I guess)   ;)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 18, 2016, 09:56:07 pm
Oh yes.  I see now that Athleta is taking the former Talbot's space.  (According to Utica Square's website, Evereve is going in the vacant space between J Spencer and BGB.)

Re: Ann Taylor, FWIW, a brand's national strength doesn't tell us much at all about the likelihood of relocating.  There are too many other variables, e.g., the brand might be strong but an individual store may not be; the store could be encouraged to relocate by the landlord for redevelopment/re-merchandising; the store might relocate for a better or larger (or smaller) location.  Having said that, there are no obvious spots in Utica Square to which they could relocate; so, if the brand is indeed strong, and if this store is strong, and if Ann Taylor fits into Utica Square's merchandising strategy, I guess my theory of a larger redevelopment site may not hold water.

(So, it's curtains for the Utica Square Gap store, I guess)   ;)

When I say strong brand I mean that its been profitable for them and Ann Taylor isn't in a major downsizing trend like a lot of stores are. Gap, I have no knowledge of them moving, but they are in a downsizing trend globally so I wouldn't be surprised if they did eventually shuffle around. Ann Taylor also meets the higher end tenant mix that Utica management is aiming for, Gap not as much. But, like you said a lot of it does depend on individual stores - Ann Taylor in Utica could be a poor performer for them and Gap could get a ton of business there.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on August 01, 2016, 12:57:09 pm
I can't take it any more.  I need at least a rumor of what will be going in the place of Miss Jackson's and Petty's   ;D   Anybody?  Anything???


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 01, 2016, 01:14:46 pm
I can't take it any more.  I need at least a rumor of what will be going in the place of Miss Jackson's and Petty's   ;D   Anybody?  Anything???


Taco Bueno.



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: In_Tulsa on August 01, 2016, 02:54:28 pm

Taco Bueno.


Dream on Utica Square is not that high class!!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 01, 2016, 03:37:51 pm
Thought I saw somewhere that is going to be one of those double restaurants in one building. A combo Taco Bell and Long John Silvers.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Townsend on August 01, 2016, 03:53:07 pm
Thought I saw somewhere that is going to be one of those double restaurants in one building. A combo Taco Bell and Long John Silvers.

The old plumbing in the area would never hold up.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on August 01, 2016, 06:36:21 pm
There’s a lovely picket fence in place for the time being.  I like that.  Any other construction site would use chain link panels, but not Utica Square.  :D


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Hoss on August 01, 2016, 07:29:23 pm
There’s a lovely picket fence in place for the time being.  I like that.  Any other construction site would use chain link panels, but not Utica Square.  :D

Kinda like the closed Whataburger at 27th and Memorial.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on August 02, 2016, 07:12:54 pm
Thought I saw somewhere that is going to be one of those double restaurants in one building. A combo Taco Bell and Long John Silvers.

I'd laugh at the irony.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Hoss on August 02, 2016, 07:15:49 pm
Thought I saw somewhere that is going to be one of those double restaurants in one building. A combo Taco Bell and Long John Silvers.

Now, if it were a LJS and a WhiteCastle, I'd be down for that....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 02, 2016, 07:49:40 pm
Dream on Utica Square is not that high class!!


Oh, man...that's pretty cool !!   Brand new here and already I am rubbing off on you!!  Sweet !!

Well, maybe not exactly brand new, but lurking in the weeds and only surfacing on rare occasions!



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 02, 2016, 08:51:05 pm
Now, if it were a LJS and a WhiteCastle, I'd be down for that....

White Castle is the devil


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Hoss on August 03, 2016, 07:16:30 am
White Castle is the devil

One of my guilty pleasures.  KC has no more; last time I had WC was in Nashville.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 03, 2016, 08:17:41 am
One of my guilty pleasures.  KC has no more; last time I had WC was in Nashville.


If  you are in Nashville, it's just a short drive to Somerset, KY.  You can get White Castle  AND  Gold Star Chili !!   Double-header!  Without having to drive all the way to Cincinnati !!



Ok....yeah, you could go to Bowling Green and do the same thing, but where's the fun in that??



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on August 03, 2016, 09:02:46 am
(http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/insert-bs-here-4/146326d1438881643-dedicated-urabus-thread-drift.jpg)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 03, 2016, 09:59:11 am
White Castle is the devil

(http://www.hirescovers.net/gallery/albums/batch/H/normal_Harold_and_kumar_go_to_whitecastle.jpg)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on August 03, 2016, 10:03:32 am
What’s ever happened to the H & M rumor? 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: erfalf on August 03, 2016, 10:42:31 am
What’s ever happened to the H & M rumor? 

Would H&M really even be a good fit. Isn't H&M supposed to be kind of trendy and at a lower price point. My wife wants one because they have good children's clothing at reasonable prices. I guess they still have Gap. There not much else in Utica that fit's the "affordable" criteria.

Besides a major restaurant, what in this market climate are they going to get to replace that square footage?

Pipe dream I know, but a boutique hotel there would be pretty sweet. Utica is kind of a historic lifestyle center before there were lifestyle centers. All the new developments in that vein seem to have hotels. Why not here? Seems to be as good a spot as any.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 03, 2016, 11:18:12 am
Would H&M really even be a good fit. Isn't H&M supposed to be kind of trendy and at a lower price point. My wife wants one because they have good children's clothing at reasonable prices. I guess they still have Gap. There not much else in Utica that fit's the "affordable" criteria.

Besides a major restaurant, what in this market climate are they going to get to replace that square footage?

Pipe dream I know, but a boutique hotel there would be pretty sweet. Utica is kind of a historic lifestyle center before there were lifestyle centers. All the new developments in that vein seem to have hotels. Why not here? Seems to be as good a spot as any.

REI, Crate and Barrel and The Container Store seem the most likely



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on August 03, 2016, 01:23:00 pm
REI, Crate and Barrel and The Container Store seem the most likely



REI and Crate & Barrel would be great here.  Just enough room for both too especially if they are both two levels. 

No to Container Store and H&M those belong at Woodland Hills and/or Promenade.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on August 03, 2016, 02:28:04 pm
No to Container Store and H&M those belong at Woodland Hills and/or Promenade.

Promenade needs something / anything


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Eroica on August 04, 2016, 12:11:03 pm
Tulsa Home & Garden mag posted on Instagram this morning that Fresh Market is going in there.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2016, 12:14:38 pm
(http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/insert-bs-here-4/146326d1438881643-dedicated-urabus-thread-drift.jpg)


Lol....just following the herd....



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 04, 2016, 01:13:38 pm
Tulsa Home & Garden mag posted on Instagram this morning that Fresh Market is going in there.

Fresh Market was bought out by an equity fund and is closing stores, not opening them. They've pulled out of Texas entirely.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Hoss on August 04, 2016, 02:14:00 pm
Fresh Market was bought out by an equity fund and is closing stores, not opening them. They've pulled out of Texas entirely.

I know that feeling.  When I worked for DAC Services we got passed around from EP to EP like a fat blunt at a party.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on August 04, 2016, 03:27:05 pm
Fresh Market was bought out by an equity fund and is closing stores, not opening them. They've pulled out of Texas entirely.

I wonder how the one at 81st & Yale is doing.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 04, 2016, 03:57:28 pm
I wonder how the one at 81st & Yale is doing.

It must be doing ok as Tulsa is the westernmost location that's still open. The closest stores to us are Rogers and Little Rock.

Being on an island like that doesn't bode well for the store long term.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Eroica on August 04, 2016, 05:19:47 pm
Fresh Market was bought out by an equity fund and is closing stores, not opening them. They've pulled out of Texas entirely.

Oops. Guess I should check these things out before passing along crap info. Sorry!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 04, 2016, 06:15:02 pm
Oops. Guess I should check these things out before passing along crap info. Sorry!

No, no, that really was the rumor from 6+ months ago. But since the buyout in March they aren't the same company anymore. I think that was good info, but it's dated now.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on August 11, 2016, 08:55:07 am
REI and Crate & Barrel would be great here.  Just enough room for both too especially if they are both two levels. 

No to Container Store and H&M those belong at Woodland Hills and/or Promenade.

Speaking of Promenade

http://www.newson6.com/story/32736229/macys-plans-to-close-around-100-stores-in-2017

14% of Macy's stores are slated to be cut...   


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 11, 2016, 10:54:13 am
Speaking of Promenade

http://www.newson6.com/story/32736229/macys-plans-to-close-around-100-stores-in-2017

14% of Macy's stores are slated to be cut...   

Yeah, I don't see any way that they keep that store.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on August 11, 2016, 11:10:18 am
Seems like 41st & Yale would be a good location for a Kohl's


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TheArtist on August 11, 2016, 11:38:14 am
Speaking of Promenade

http://www.newson6.com/story/32736229/macys-plans-to-close-around-100-stores-in-2017

14% of Macy's stores are slated to be cut...   

Would be nice if the University got that property.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DTowner on August 11, 2016, 12:54:02 pm
The last time I was in that Macy’s, it looked like they had stopped restocking the shelves. 

To survive, Promenade will have to look to things other than retail - the gym was a good start.

I still don’t get putting in a grocery store at Utica Sq. in the same location it just forced out a local grocery store that had a loyal following.  Low margin groceries in a high rent center just don’t make sense to me.  Sprouts, Whole Foods, and Trader Joes located within a few miles of Utica Sq. only make it a worse idea.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: mrrbot1 on August 14, 2016, 05:02:41 pm
fresh market will be a good addtion to utica


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on August 19, 2016, 10:38:30 am
Would be nice if the University got that property.

Would love to see that happen


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on August 19, 2016, 11:25:00 am
Would be nice if the University got that property.

Just the Macy's or all of Promenade? 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 19, 2016, 12:04:25 pm
Just the Macy's or all of Promenade? 

Which university? OU?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on August 19, 2016, 01:31:42 pm
OU and all of Promenade


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: BKDotCom on August 19, 2016, 02:55:58 pm
Wife worked at OU...  has thought for years that they should acquire Promenade.. but doesn't think they're smart/progressive enough


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 19, 2016, 04:31:54 pm
There's also the small matter of the $45,000,000 to purchase the property and the $45,000,000+ needed to turn it into usable space for a university. And it removes a huge amount of sales tax from the rolls. And Langston, TU, OSU, NSU, Rogers State, ORU, etc. etc. etc. would all oppose it. And, of course, there's the fact that there are only ~1,000 kids that go to OU Tulsa, and most of them are part time.  Or that they don't have the funding to up faculty that much in Tulsa.

So other than the expense, the need, and the practicality of it... I expect OU to buy the mall any day now.  ;)



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on August 19, 2016, 04:53:09 pm
Wife worked at OU...  has thought for years that they should acquire Promenade.. but doesn't think they're smart/progressive enough

They already remodeled something previously across the street, I bet they look into it over time.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on August 19, 2016, 04:54:24 pm
There's also the small matter of the $45,000,000 to purchase the property and the $45,000,000+ needed to turn it into usable space for a university. And it removes a huge amount of sales tax from the rolls. And Langston, TU, OSU, NSU, Rogers State, ORU, etc. etc. etc. would all oppose it. And, of course, there's the fact that there are only ~1,000 kids that go to OU Tulsa, and most of them are part time.  Or that they don't have the funding to up faculty that much in Tulsa.

So other than the expense, the need, and the practicality of it... I expect OU to buy the mall any day now.  ;)



Do TU/ORU have a say? If so, in what regard?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on August 19, 2016, 05:19:08 pm
They already remodeled something previously across the street, I bet they look into it over time.

The Schusterman’s gave them a pretty hefty gift to take that property off Amoco’s hands.

Not sure if they are in that sort of position anymore since they sold Samson.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 19, 2016, 05:28:05 pm
The Schusterman’s gave them a pretty hefty gift to take that property off Amoco’s hands.

Not sure if they are in that sort of position anymore since they sold Samson.

Forbes has Lynn Schusterman as the 49th wealthiest woman in the world and 477th wealthiest person with $3.4 billion.

Personally, if someone wants to throw around a bunch of millions on local colleges I would prefer it be for OSU Tulsa to become a full independant public research university than to buy an old mall.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on August 19, 2016, 09:13:28 pm
Forbes has Lynn Schusterman as the 49th wealthiest woman in the world and 477th wealthiest person with $3.4 billion.

Personally, if someone wants to throw around a bunch of millions on local colleges I would prefer it be for OSU Tulsa to become a full independant public research university than to buy an old mall.

I agree but OSU doesn't seem committed to making it a fully independent 4 year university.  Can you imagine if they would have followed through with the 20/20 plan developed in the early 2000's to have 20k students on campus by 2020?  Very frustrated with OSU, I think OU would've done a better job with UCAT but that ship has sailed.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 19, 2016, 09:58:24 pm
I agree but OSU doesn't seem committed to making it a fully independent 4 year university.  Can you imagine if they would have followed through with the 20/20 plan developed in the early 2000's to have 20k students on campus by 2020?  Very frustrated with OSU, I think OU would've done a better job with UCAT but that ship has sailed.

I know, OSU pisses me off with their short sightedness over the Tulsa campus. It would still be part of the OSU system. Oklahoma parochialism again.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on August 20, 2016, 12:42:46 pm
I thought that the Tulsa campuses for OU and OSU were barred from offering undergraduate courses because of protectionism for TCC.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 20, 2016, 03:13:49 pm
I thought that the Tulsa campuses for OU and OSU were barred from offering undergraduate courses because of protectionism for TCC.

Rules can be changed.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on August 20, 2016, 10:25:49 pm
They can’t as long as the board of regents keeps screwing Tulsa to the benefit of Stillwater and Norman.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 20, 2016, 11:31:36 pm
They can’t as long as the board of regents keeps screwing Tulsa to the benefit of Stillwater and Norman.

You mean like screwing the buying public in favor of Jarboe and Central?  ;)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on August 21, 2016, 08:34:15 pm
You mean like screwing the buying public in favor of Jarboe and Central?  ;)

Good one!

Exactly!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: erfalf on August 22, 2016, 06:54:44 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the rules not allowing 4 years programs at OSU/OU had more to do with protecting Tulsa's investments, not the states. In other words, protecting TCC.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 22, 2016, 07:22:29 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the rules not allowing 4 years programs at OSU/OU had more to do with protecting Tulsa's investments, not the states. In other words, protecting TCC.

It's TCC and Langston that are being protected. And my understanding is that OU/OSU don't fight the rules because it protects against student drain from the Norman and Stillwater campuses.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Dspike on August 22, 2016, 09:39:22 am
Thread drift! Anyone know what statute or rule "protects" TCC from competition in the County? I understand SB 1426 set up OSU-Tulsa and functionally split up the UCAT effort, but it does not mention TCC directly. Is there another state statute that applies?

Put otherwise, what legally stops OSU Tulsa or OU Tulsa from offering first and second year classes?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on August 23, 2016, 07:13:11 pm
Thread drift! Anyone know what statute or rule "protects" TCC from competition in the County? I understand SB 1426 set up OSU-Tulsa and functionally split up the UCAT effort, but it does not mention TCC directly. Is there another state statute that applies?

Put otherwise, what legally stops OSU Tulsa or OU Tulsa from offering first and second year classes?

I believe it is a statewide community college act that keeps state-funded 4 yr institutions from directly competing in cities that have a community college.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: swake on August 23, 2016, 07:32:19 pm
I believe it is a statewide community college act that keeps state-funded 4 yr institutions from directly competing in cities that have a community college.

There's another law to protect 3rd and 4th year classes at Langston as well.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on August 23, 2016, 07:58:56 pm
I believe it is a statewide community college act that keeps state-funded 4 yr institutions from directly competing in cities that have a community college.

 I've been harping about this for 10+ years on this forum and nothing has changed.  Tulsa keeps slipping further behind largely in part to not having a major public research university due to stupid provincial state laws. 

Mods feel free to move this discussion to a new thread.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 24, 2016, 07:28:07 am
I dont have time ti find the actual law, but it would be somewhere towards the end of this Title:
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/Index.asp?ftdb=STOKST70&level=1

I'd be interested to see what the law actually says, or if this is a long standing myth, policy, understanding, edict, agreement...whatever.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: davideinstein on August 24, 2016, 03:12:49 pm
I've been harping about this for 10+ years on this forum and nothing has changed.  Tulsa keeps slipping further behind largely in part to not having a major public research university due to stupid provincial state laws. 

Mods feel free to move this discussion to a new thread.

Yep.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 24, 2016, 03:47:07 pm
What about Northern Oklahoma Community College?

http://www.noc.edu/stillwater (http://www.noc.edu/stillwater)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: saintnicster on August 24, 2016, 04:03:01 pm
Thread drift! Anyone know what statute or rule "protects" TCC from competition in the County? I understand SB 1426 set up OSU-Tulsa and functionally split up the UCAT effort, but it does not mention TCC directly. Is there another state statute that applies?

Put otherwise, what legally stops OSU Tulsa or OU Tulsa from offering first and second year classes?

I dont have time ti find the actual law, but it would be somewhere towards the end of this Title:
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/Index.asp?ftdb=STOKST70&level=1

I'd be interested to see what the law actually says, or if this is a long standing myth, policy, understanding, edict, agreement...whatever.
Got these from that link :)

http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=104059 TCC
http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=104061 Langston
http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=104062 Northeastern State

"Undergraduate degree programs offered through Oklahoma State University/Tulsa shall not duplicate those undergraduate degree programs offered by {XXX} ... as determined by the Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education."


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on January 04, 2017, 04:18:45 pm
The last time I was in that Macy’s, it looked like they had stopped restocking the shelves. 

To survive, Promenade will have to look to things other than retail - the gym was a good start.

I still don’t get putting in a grocery store at Utica Sq. in the same location it just forced out a local grocery store that had a loyal following.  Low margin groceries in a high rent center just don’t make sense to me.  Sprouts, Whole Foods, and Trader Joes located within a few miles of Utica Sq. only make it a worse idea.


Macy's will close by the end of the year.  Any ideas on what should replace it at Promenade?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/macy-s-at-tulsa-promenade-mall-is-closing/article_633e4cdb-92b9-50fe-9240-1397e2f336c9.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/macy-s-at-tulsa-promenade-mall-is-closing/article_633e4cdb-92b9-50fe-9240-1397e2f336c9.html)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: DowntownDan on January 05, 2017, 08:01:09 am
Macy's will close by the end of the year.  Any ideas on what should replace it at Promenade?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/macy-s-at-tulsa-promenade-mall-is-closing/article_633e4cdb-92b9-50fe-9240-1397e2f336c9.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/macy-s-at-tulsa-promenade-mall-is-closing/article_633e4cdb-92b9-50fe-9240-1397e2f336c9.html)

Miss Jackson's Redux


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on January 09, 2017, 12:28:53 pm
This just gets curiouser and curiouser, with each passing day.  We first got word of this more than  18 months ago and I think we all anticipated that Utica Square had some pretty definitive plans for the space before closing down Miss Jackson's and kicking out Petty's (especially the latter, which presumably was paying rent every month; the former may well have been a money pit for them).


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: RazorBird on January 12, 2017, 04:34:53 pm
In keeping with getting this thread back on topic...

What is the latest on replacing the Miss Jackson's and Petty's spots? 


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2017, 11:54:23 pm
In keeping with getting this thread back on topic...

What is the latest on replacing the Miss Jackson's and Petty's spots? 

Apparently the best kept secret in Tulsa which is really rare.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on February 28, 2017, 04:26:57 pm
Apparently the best kept secret in Tulsa which is really rare.

Or there's no secret to be kept.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 28, 2017, 08:06:35 pm
In keeping with getting this thread back on topic...

What is the latest on replacing the Miss Jackson's and Petty's spots? 

Its now a nicely kept lawn.  Might as well take down the fence and enjoy the green-space.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on February 28, 2017, 09:17:18 pm
Perfect spot for REI if the council (hopefully) votes against abandoning Helmerich Park.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on February 28, 2017, 11:11:47 pm
So it's been worth it to the Helmerichs to forego rent from Petty's and Miss Jackson's for over a year now?

Has it really been a year?  Where did the time go!?!


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 16, 2017, 12:32:51 pm
Saw the grass over the weekend.  Yard is kinda lumpy - needs smoothing.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on March 16, 2017, 09:01:49 pm
Saw the grass over the weekend.  Yard is kinda lumpy - needs smoothing.


As smooth as your Brain and it would be perfect.....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 23, 2017, 09:08:26 am
As smooth as your Brain and it would be perfect.....


Lol....gratuitous nonsense... we know we can always count on you for the inane and irrelevant...


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: sgrizzle on March 23, 2017, 04:58:31 pm
Don't be Petty's


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on March 23, 2017, 05:49:54 pm
As smooth as your Brain and it would be perfect.....

Didn't you tell me like two years ago that H&M was going in that space?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on March 23, 2017, 06:57:20 pm
Didn't you tell me like two years ago that H&M was going in that space?

I told you it was going away....


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Breadburner on March 23, 2017, 06:58:44 pm

Lol....gratuitous nonsense... we know we can always count on you for the inane and irrelevant...


You as well with your smile post.....Angie's list...Blah blah...


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 06, 2017, 07:11:24 am
Quote
Home goods and clothing store Cariloha coming to Utica Square

Bamboo home goods and apparel retailer Cariloha is coming to Utica Square, according to city of Tulsa building permits and the company's website.

Utica Square received a building permit last week for alternations to 1760 Utica Square, which is next to Stonehorse Market.

On the Cariloha website, the company lists the same Tulsa address and says it is coming soon.

"Since 2007, the brand has grown to become the only multi-store retailer in the world to provide an entire store experience that’s completely merchandised with products made from ecofriendly viscose from bamboo," the store's website says.


The website shows a wide array of products ranging from bedding to men's and women's clothing. Recent blogs on its website highlight new bamboo sheets and sock varieties. Cariloha fabrics are made from bamboo viscose, rayon from bamboo, polyester from bamboo or bamboo charcoal.

Founded in 2007, Cariloha is Utah-based and has more than 50 locations across the continental U.S., Hawaii, Mexico and throughout the Carribean. In the U.S., the chain has stores in large metro areas such as Washington, D.C., and wealthy tourist enclaves such as Bar Harbor, Maine, and Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

The addition means another, unique to Oklahoma tenant for Tulsa's most prominent outdoor shopping center, which has been undergoing a transformation of sorts since late 2015.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/home-goods-and-clothing-store-cariloha-coming-to-utica-square/article_59a4822b-4184-5187-b8be-5ed81aa0edf8.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/home-goods-and-clothing-store-cariloha-coming-to-utica-square/article_59a4822b-4184-5187-b8be-5ed81aa0edf8.html)


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Conan71 on June 06, 2017, 07:30:54 am
But still no announcement on the former Miss Jackson’s or Petty’s spaces?

One has to wonder if something fell through for them to kick out long-term tenants and to demo the buildings only for it to sit vacant for as long as it has.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on June 06, 2017, 10:17:00 am
Yeah it's really strange, still hopeful the redevelopment of that part of Utica will be worth it.  It's literally a blank slate, they could do mixed-use, a small hotel with retail, condos, etc.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on June 06, 2017, 11:10:05 am
But still no announcement on the former Miss Jackson’s or Petty’s spaces?

One has to wonder if something fell through for them to kick out long-term tenants and to demo the buildings only for it to sit vacant for as long as it has.

To be clear, they really only kicked out one long-term tenant.  (They owned Miss Jackson's, so Miss Jackson's was not really a tenant).  But your point is correct; something must have gone wrong or someone made a pretty significant miscalculation.  I can see closing Miss Jackson's, which was apparently a cash drain on the company; but presumably Petty's was paying rent, so kicking them out without a replacement in hand is a little hard to make sense of.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 06, 2017, 11:25:48 am
To be clear, they really only kicked out one long-term tenant.  (They owned Miss Jackson's, so Miss Jackson's was not really a tenant).  But your point is correct correct; something must have gone wrong or someone made a pretty significant miscalculation.  I can see closing Miss Jackson's, which was apparently a cash drain on the company; but presumably Petty's was paying rent, so kicking them out without a replacement in hand is a little hard to make sense of.


Probably got a new manager and he/she had to put their "stink" on it...change for change's sake.  Harvard School of Business MBA approach...



Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on July 06, 2017, 02:47:09 pm
... I know 1 of the largest retailers there will be leaving in the next year as they want a much larger space and Utica can't accommodate them.

It's been well over a year since you told us this.  I haven't noticed any of the largest retailers leaving Utica Square since then.  Can you give us an update?


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: kingsy on July 07, 2017, 01:17:41 pm
As big retail is slowly going away, should it be time for Utica to pivot?  We were at 5th night last night, and I kept thinking how nice it would be if that area was more park like.  Turn the Jackson/Petty spot into a small parking garage, and lay grass and put up some more trees in the area where 5th night is held.  People already expect to walk in Utica Square, so I don't think it would affect anyone other than Restoration, possibly.  Even then, Restoration is changing it's model to be more of a show room so you can get an idea and then order online.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: Oil Capital on October 30, 2017, 11:00:38 am
I am so curious about the decisions made by Utica Square management regarding Miss Jackson's and Petty's and very surprised that almost 2 1/2 years after having apparently made the decision to close Miss Jackson's and kick out Petty's we still have an empty fenced-in site with no apparent plans to build anything.  What happened to the waiting list we've always been told exists for retailers who want to be in Utica Square?

Anyway, I just did a search on Utica Square's website, hoping to find some news about replacements. Here's what the search gave me (along with 6 other job openings at Miss Jackson's):


Miss Jackson's

Miss Jackson's of Utica Square (a Tulsa tradition for over a century) is accepting applications for Full Time Receptionist
Ideal candidate will have previous experience answering multiline phone system, possess basic computer skills, be customer focused, punctual, dependable, trustworthy and able to work closely with GM and all Dept. Managers for clerical tasks.
Position offers: 5 day work week, company sponsored health, life and dental insurance. Paid vacation and sick time. Must be able to pass drug and back ground checks.
Apply in person M-F 10am – 5:30pm
2nd floor Customer Service
Miss Jackson's
1974 Utica Square
Tulsa, OK




Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: SXSW on October 30, 2017, 11:09:26 pm
As big retail is slowly going away, should it be time for Utica to pivot?  We were at 5th night last night, and I kept thinking how nice it would be if that area was more park like.  Turn the Jackson/Petty spot into a small parking garage, and lay grass and put up some more trees in the area where 5th night is held.  People already expect to walk in Utica Square, so I don't think it would affect anyone other than Restoration, possibly.  Even then, Restoration is changing it's model to be more of a show room so you can get an idea and then order online.

Utica Square needs a master plan for future development (if it doesn’t have one already).  More mixed-use, think condos or apartments above storefronts.  A few more restaurants.  Add more density and redevelop the “corners” at Utica and Yorktown, and the parking lots along 22nd Place.  And yes a larger park space in the middle would be great for events.


Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 01, 2017, 10:01:02 am
I am so curious about the decisions made by Utica Square management regarding Miss Jackson's and Petty's and very surprised that almost 2 1/2 years after having apparently made the decision to close Miss Jackson's and kick out Petty's we still have an empty fenced-in site with no apparent plans to build anything.  What happened to the waiting list we've always been told exists for retailers who want to be in Utica Square?

Anyway, I just did a search on Utica Square's website, hoping to find some news about replacements. Here's what the search gave me (along with 6 other job openings at Miss Jackson's):


Miss Jackson's

Miss Jackson's of Utica Square (a Tulsa tradition for over a century) is accepting applications for Full Time Receptionist
Ideal candidate will have previous experience answering multiline phone system, possess basic computer skills, be customer focused, punctual, dependable, trustworthy and able to work closely with GM and all Dept. Managers for clerical tasks.
Position offers: 5 day work week, company sponsored health, life and dental insurance. Paid vacation and sick time. Must be able to pass drug and back ground checks.
Apply in person M-F 10am – 5:30pm
2nd floor Customer Service
Miss Jackson's
1974 Utica Square
Tulsa, OK






Big screw up happening in their management plan.  Post #304 above....

The plan didn't fail - "they didn't have a plan" is the fail !!




Title: Re: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....
Post by: patric on November 02, 2017, 08:54:11 am

Big screw up happening in their management plan.  Post #304 above....

The plan didn't fail - "they didn't have a plan" is the fail !!


Recent mailer:
...after 112 years in business, Koslow's Furs formerly the fur department at Miss Jacksons must close its doors.