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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: Hoss on June 15, 2015, 12:45:14 pm



Title: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Hoss on June 15, 2015, 12:45:14 pm
And by that, I mean learn from its mistakes?  I found this from a democratic Oklahoma Congressman on his Facebook page, but this has all happened recently in Kansas.  Looks like a mess.

--------------------------

The Handwriting’s on the Wall

By State Rep. David Perryman (D-Chickasha)


Seeing the “handwriting on the wall” simply means understanding what is inevitable. The metaphor can be traced King Belshazzar in the fifth chapter of Daniel watching a disembodied hand write on the wall of his Babylonian palace. After the King’s wisest men were unable to decipher the writing, Daniel, an Israelite, successfully interpreted its meaning.

Nowhere is the phrase more timely and appropriate than the predictable situation Oklahoma will face based upon what is now happening in Kansas.

Both Kansas and Oklahoma have relentlessly pursued cuts in the rates of state income tax under Republican legislative supermajorities

In 2012, Kansas’ income tax rate was cut by 25% and many corporations and businesses were totally exempted from paying income tax. A year later, those who still paid income tax received additional incremental decreases of 20% over a number of years.

Not to be outdone, Oklahoma adopted rounds of cuts exceeding 30% of the state’s income tax rate with an additional triggered cut of 0.15% set to begin the first of July this year.

Heads up: The chickens have come home to roost in the Jayhawk State.

The very ability of Kansas state government to operate became questionable. Kansas began a process known as “tax shifting,” a process of cutting funding to towns, schools and counties requiring them to increase property and sales taxes on the local level. By 2014, more than three-fourths of all Kansas counties were forced to increase PROPERTY taxes by as much as 5.7%.

Last week, the “writing on the wall” in Topeka became obvious. Governor Brownback faced a budget shortfall of more than $800 million. When money was not available to adequately fund education, roads, bridges, corrections and other services, he made one-time transfers from revolving funds and swept money from the transportation fund to cover half the gap.

Then at 1:30 a.m. on June 12 came a shootout, not at the OK Corral but on the floor of the Kansas State House. Republican Governor Brownback threatened that if additional revenue was not found, massive budget cuts and layoffs would begin immediately. The Wichita Eagle reported that legislators wept. No incidents of teeth gnashing, but the environment was appropriate.

By 4:00 a.m., amid the smell of burning sulfur, the Kansas House voted to increase the state sales tax to 6.5 cents, take away half the mortgage interest and property tax deductions, eliminate other personal deductions, and increase the cigarette tax. The bill did not reimpose the income tax on businesses or corporations, did not cut off any of the millions of dollars in tax breaks or credits enjoyed by “small” businesses like Koch Industries, but it did give additional tax breaks for private school tuition. The Senate followed suit.

Plain and simple, Kansas’ quest to cut income tax was realized by burdening working Kansans with increased sales taxes, taking away their personal tax deductions, and forcing counties, cities and schools to impose increases in property and sales taxes to simply survive.

Oklahoma faced a $611 million budget hole this year, and swept massive amounts of money from transportation and education budgets and raided revolving and “rainy day” funds. Next year when Oklahoma’s projected deficit will be $1 billion, those one-time funds will not be available.

Kansans currently pay 253% more of their personal income on property taxes than do Oklahomans. Kansas’ state sales tax rate is 62.5% higher than Oklahoma’s. Those differences will increase because Kansas has cut funding to schools, counties and towns that will be forced to increase property and sales taxes themselves.

Will Oklahoma follow the same path Kansas has taken, or will we see the writing on the wall?

Daniel’s literal interpretation of the writing on the wall, “Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharshin,” was “Numbered, Numbered, Weighed and Divided,” meaning Babylon’s destruction was imminent. Let us hope that Oklahoma fares better than Babylon.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on June 15, 2015, 02:55:11 pm
You're assuming that Oklahoma's legislators are capable of learning or that they'll fear the wrath of the voters when draconian budget cuts and higher taxes and fees are imposed.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on June 15, 2015, 03:20:43 pm
Obamacare will be blamed


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 17, 2015, 12:57:46 pm
CAN we learn? Sure.

WILL we learn? Nope.

Kansas and Wisconsin followed a hardcore conservative model trumpeted by Texas. Both have met object failure, financial ruin, and a lack of investment interest by desirable employers.  Intel, MS, Apple, major financial institutions, and corporate HQs look for stability and quality of life as much as cheap labor, cheap taxes, and cheap regulation.  If they wanted the Texas model, they'd just be in Texas which works do to a self sustaining loop... Same reason silicon valley works and lower Manhattan. Kansas can't be lower Manhattan, and it isn't Texas.

Look at the juxtaposition between hardcore conservative Wisconsin (financial and economic ruin) and moderate Minnesota (prospering).

But no... We won't learn. We will try to out fail them.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on June 18, 2015, 04:32:21 pm
...but, but, but with an illiterate populace, more poisoned air and water, decaying infrastructure, and low, low discount taxes...why...Oklahoma will be a new mecca for business investment.


Title: Re:
Post by: Townsend on June 19, 2015, 11:45:03 am
...but, but, but with an illiterate populace, more poisoned air and water, decaying infrastructure, and low, low discount taxes...why...Oklahoma will be a new mecca for business investment.

Can't be a mecca...Muslim-y


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on June 19, 2015, 01:05:32 pm
"Shining city on the hill?"....or is that too much like Hillary?


Title: Re:
Post by: rebound on June 19, 2015, 01:29:58 pm
"Shining city on the hill?"....or is that too much like Hillary?

Reagan, originally, right?


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on June 19, 2015, 02:45:16 pm
Yes, but I think his speech writer borrowed it from someone earlier.


Title: Re:
Post by: TheArtist on June 19, 2015, 03:34:45 pm
Yes, but I think his speech writer borrowed it from someone earlier.

I think it was some early, sandal wearing, love one another, bearded hippy dude.  ;)


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on June 20, 2015, 11:52:16 am
Okay. How about "Oklahoma: Where the mostly unpolluted wind comes whipping down the fracking plains"?  No, that won't work either.  "Oklahoma from sea to shining sea." Climate change is causing rising sea levels, so....


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on August 05, 2015, 11:28:53 am
Oklahoma Treasurer Says Declining Energy Prices Hurt Revenue

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-says-declining-energy-prices-hurt-revenue (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-says-declining-energy-prices-hurt-revenue)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma Treasurer Ken Miller says declining oil and natural gas prices helped push state revenue lower last month.

Miller says revenue in July fell 5 percent below collections during the same month last year. It's the third consecutive month and the fourth time in five months that state revenue has been lower than the prior year.

Miller says lower income tax collections also helped push revenue down in July. Combined personal and corporate income taxes shrank by 5.4 percent, while gross production taxes on oil and natural gas fell almost 47 percent.

In the past 12-months, gross production tax collections are down almost 24 percent and motor vehicle collections are off by more than 3 percent.

July receipts totaled $942 million, down about $50 million from July 2014.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on August 05, 2015, 12:13:22 pm
Oklahoma Treasurer Says Declining Energy Prices Hurt Revenue

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-says-declining-energy-prices-hurt-revenue (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-says-declining-energy-prices-hurt-revenue)


That’s not the only place low oil prices is hitting hard.  Chesapeake reported a $4+ billion loss last quarter and Devon lost over $2 billion.  According to a former employee who was laid off last month, Cimmarex has been quietly letting a few people go at a time so as not to signal a mass layoff.

But, back on topic.  Looks like Mary Failin’ needs to issue another tax cut.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on August 05, 2015, 12:14:37 pm

But, back on topic.  Looks like Mary Failin’ needs to issue another tax cut.

That'll save the day


Title: Re:
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 05, 2015, 01:35:33 pm
...but, but, but with an illiterate populace, more poisoned air and water, decaying infrastructure, and low, low discount taxes...why...Oklahoma will be a new mecca for business investment.


That's what the RWRE wants...a theocracy, modeled along the lines of what Iran has enjoyed for decades.  About 60% of Republicans want that right now.

And our state clown show is drawing the most psychotic of the psycho's giving us a serious bias as these new people who want that kind of life move in.  Oklahoma is becoming a cult state.  Branch Oklahomavidians have taken over.... Mary Koresh-Failin' ain't quite David, but the next one is coming soon to a Kool-Aid parlor near you!!  (Yeah, I know...mixing metaphors.)






Title: Re:
Post by: TheArtist on August 05, 2015, 04:35:42 pm

That's what the RWRE wants...a theocracy, modeled along the lines of what Iran has enjoyed for decades.  About 60% of Republicans want that right now.

And our state clown show is drawing the most psychotic of the psycho's giving us a serious bias as these new people who want that kind of life move in.  Oklahoma is becoming a cult state.  Branch Oklahomavidians have taken over.... Mary Koresh-Failin' ain't quite David, but the next one is coming soon to a Kool-Aid parlor near you!!  (Yeah, I know...mixing metaphors.)






Funny you mention Iran.  With their oil now likely to begin flowing back into the market here in the near future, should help keep oil prices low or lower.  

Thought I heard on the radio the other day that its likely that this year will see Oklahoma's growth go into negative territory.  This last year (whatever time scale they actually use as the beginning and end to a year I don't recall) we were at about .6% growth.   Tulsa is also likely to see population declines.

We really should have been and need to be pushing hard to become competitive in todays world and paying attention to todays trends (and of course histories lessons).  I get so tired of this city, and state, only stepping up to do dramatic things AFTER disaster is sitting squarely in our laps and making itself at home, and not when its walking straight towards us and looking us in the eyes lol.  


Title: Re:
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 06, 2015, 05:26:14 pm
Funny you mention Iran.  With their oil now likely to begin flowing back into the market here in the near future, should help keep oil prices low or lower.  

Thought I heard on the radio the other day that its likely that this year will see Oklahoma's growth go into negative territory.  This last year (whatever time scale they actually use as the beginning and end to a year I don't recall) we were at about .6% growth.   Tulsa is also likely to see population declines.

We really should have been and need to be pushing hard to become competitive in todays world and paying attention to todays trends (and of course histories lessons).  I get so tired of this city, and state, only stepping up to do dramatic things AFTER disaster is sitting squarely in our laps and making itself at home, and not when its walking straight towards us and looking us in the eyes lol.  


Saudi seems to still have the biggest grip on prices.  And they have said for years that they want a price somewhere near $60.  We will see if they continue with that - I am sure they have done a lot of present/future value calculations to come up with a number.


As a nation as well as state - we are always in "knee-jerk" reaction mode.  That's where the second R in RWRE comes from - Reactionary!  If we were thinking ahead - or even just thinking - we would be proactive, which would give us more progress, which leads us to be more progressive, which would benefit everyone (not just the "chosen", entitled ones) which is exactly opposite what the RWRE wants for the country.  And yet, half of us still buy into their BS.... go figure...




Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Jammie on August 19, 2015, 06:53:13 pm
I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Hoss on August 19, 2015, 09:18:30 pm
I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?

So how would you fill the shortfall we currently have?  Ad valorem/property tax increase?  Increase the state sales tax?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: TheArtist on August 20, 2015, 06:11:37 am
I wouldn't mind getting rid of the state government/taxes all together and just letting the cities take over the taxing and spending of their own money. Versus us sending our money a hundred miles a way so that some bureaucracy there can skim off a portion and us have to spend a lot of time and effort begging for what remains back and then watch as we constantly get gipped in the process. 


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Hoss on August 20, 2015, 07:10:50 am
I wouldn't mind getting rid of the state government/taxes all together and just letting the cities take over the taxing and spending of their own money. Versus us sending our money a hundred miles a way so that some bureaucracy there can skim off a portion and us have to spend a lot of time and effort begging for what remains back and then watch as we constantly get gipped in the process. 

You think the cities would do any better?  I really don't hold much faith in local government either.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on August 20, 2015, 06:36:12 pm
I wouldn't mind getting rid of the state government/taxes all together and just letting the cities take over the taxing and spending of their own money. Versus us sending our money a hundred miles a way so that some bureaucracy there can skim off a portion and us have to spend a lot of time and effort begging for what remains back and then watch as we constantly get gipped in the process. 
 

Only problem with that is how do we fund state roads, state parks, and other functions currently taken care of by state government like a legislature which passes anachronistic laws which make us look like total flat-earthers?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: TheArtist on August 20, 2015, 08:11:44 pm
 

Only problem with that is how do we fund state roads, state parks, and other functions currently taken care of by state government like a legislature which passes anachronistic laws which make us look like total flat-earthers?

Let the private sector do the roads, and if say we want rail between cities we can coordinate, perhaps with federal gov help to do that.  As for State Parks, I am sure the people that are interested in such things (philanthropists, nature/environmental groups. history buffs, etc.) can coordinate something better to do that if they want.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 21, 2015, 10:49:17 am
I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?

Because we have failing infrastructure, failing schools, and failing public health. Because we are a poor state that cannot fund these thing from regressive use taxes. Because the tactic of the last 20 years of "cutting our way to prosperity" has increased the concentration of wealth to the detriment of most people while simultaneously increasing the failures stated above. Not too mention a litany of other failures (public services, parks, arts, etc. etc. etc.)

Im happy to consider alternatives, but the status quo has led to failure. The answer isn't to double down on the cuts...


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 21, 2015, 12:19:56 pm
I just have to ask.

Why do some of you prefer to keep a high state income tax?


First, what do you consider high??  Our progressive tax peaks at about 5 1/4% or so...and it has only been since Mary Failin's cutting binge that we have given huge tax cuts to the richest and massive spending cuts - to the tune of 25% per child - in education.

And then there are roads and all the topics cannon_fodder talked about....

Okrahoma has failed - due to all the 'sauerkrauts' we have attracted here.  When we take Mississippi's place at number 50, we have failed - and that is where we are today.







Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 21, 2015, 01:40:23 pm
Let the private sector do the roads

Let's look at one way that might work. A private sector company takes over all state, county and city roads and highways. To generate revenue to pay for them they decide that they are going to charge every registered vehicle $10.00 for every 100 miles driven. You will have to pay to have a device installed in your car to monitor an report miles driven, as well as if tampering is done, or if repairs are made to the vehicle you will have to pay a re-certification fee. To offset the cost of the equipment, an a lower insurance rate for the owner, this company has worked out a deal with the insurance companies to supply them with your driving habits. And for lower income people there will be an assistance program provided by the state paid for by a $.35/gallon user fee at the pump. (emergency vehicles would be exempt)



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on August 21, 2015, 02:00:16 pm
Fixing our roads is quite simple.

Our gas tax is 17 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.48.
Our Diesel tax is 14 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.1.

We have the fourth worst roads and the fourth lowest gas taxes.   


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 21, 2015, 02:18:09 pm
Fixing our roads is quite simple.

Our gas tax is 17 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.48.
Our Diesel tax is 14 cents per gallon. The national average is 30.1.

We have the fourth worst roads and the fourth lowest gas taxes.  

$.02/gal cheaper than Arizona that has really good roads, and almost $.15/gal cheaper than Oregon with really crappy roads.

http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/gasoline-tax-map.pdf (http://www.api.org/~/media/files/statistics/gasoline-tax-map.pdf)

Edit: additional info;

Quote
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States)

So that makes the Oklahoma taxes on gasoline $.17/gal plus $.18.4/gal federal for $.35.4/gal. Arizona gasoline taxes are $.19/gal and Oregon is $.31.7/gal is almost twice what Oklahoma fuel tax is.

This map is better, move your pointer to a state and it shows the breakdown for that state.

Gasoline
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes/gasoline-tax (http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes/gasoline-tax)

Diesel
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes/diesel-tax (http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/fuel-taxes/diesel-tax)


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 21, 2015, 02:41:59 pm
It is undisputed that maintaining infrastructure takes money.

Roads are REALLLLY easy to fund as a use tax. The gas tax is so simple. It inherently charges larger vehicles that are harder on the roads MORE. It inherently charges people that drive MORE. It inherently brings the revenue in where people tend to drive.

So even with a clear need everyone agrees on and a method of funding that nearly everyone agrees is almost perfect, it still doesn't happen because "taxes bad."

The miles driven tax might make sense when electric becomes more common, but it will have to be a formula. Miles driven x weight x multiplier = taxes owe. The problem there is that the tax will be a sudden hit, and ergo, most people can't pay it AND the incentive to cheat goes WAY up.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Jammie on August 22, 2015, 01:03:05 pm
I hesitate posting after the private message from Davazz. I fear he's the same stalker who detoured me from this site a few years ago, found me on a new site, posted my full name and addy and has obviously returned. Chavazz, probably. SIGH!

I don't have the answer about how to replace the money from state income tax. All I know is that my state has none and we aren't in the red. (not bragging, just sayin') Property taxes here are considerably higher then in OK, even though there was a 30% cut when gambling was legalized several years ago. A huge portion of the gambling money was supposed to go to education, but no one seems to believe that actually happened. Naturally, that makes rent higher here then in OK except for the itty bitty towns that have nothing left.

We have no toll roads. Do you have a wheel tax? Ours just went up to $4 per wheel. Our license plates have gone up, but are still cheaper then many states. ($43 for a 2010 Chevy)

We have a high hotel tax, but part of it is a "TIF" and goes to fund projects in our cities. I believe the rate is 14%.  Tax here is 7% and part of that is a city tax. The tax on food is 6%. I believe Tulsa's tax is 9%, but I don't know if that includes food or if it's all state tax.

The map that was posted does show that gas taxes are much less in OK then here. Cigarette tax is higher here also. So I don't know what a better alternative would be. Just asking.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on August 22, 2015, 02:05:07 pm
I hesitate posting after the private message from Davazz. I fear he's the same stalker who detoured me from this site a few years ago, found me on a new site, posted my full name and addy and has obviously returned. Chavazz, probably. SIGH!

I don't have the answer about how to replace the money from state income tax. All I know is that my state has none and we aren't in the red. (not bragging, just sayin') Property taxes here are considerably higher then in OK, even though there was a 30% cut when gambling was legalized several years ago. A huge portion of the gambling money was supposed to go to education, but no one seems to believe that actually happened. Naturally, that makes rent higher here then in OK except for the itty bitty towns that have nothing left.

We have no toll roads. Do you have a wheel tax? Ours just went up to $4 per wheel. Our license plates have gone up, but are still cheaper then many states. ($43 for a 2010 Chevy)

The map that was posted does show that gas taxes are much less in OK then here. Cigarette tax is higher here also. So I don't know what a better alternative would be. Just asking.

Davazz is back?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Red Arrow on August 23, 2015, 10:46:59 am
Roads are REALLLLY easy to fund as a use tax. The gas tax is so simple. It inherently charges larger vehicles that are harder on the roads MORE. It inherently charges people that drive MORE. It inherently brings the revenue in where people tend to drive.

I am confident that even if any new/increased gas tax was dedicated to roads that nothing would improve.  Oklahoma seems to have a history of dedicating a new/increased tax and then taking the money already being spent on something and then diverting it to somewhere else.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on August 25, 2015, 03:14:35 pm
Let the private sector do the roads, and if say we want rail between cities we can coordinate, perhaps with federal gov help to do that.  As for State Parks, I am sure the people that are interested in such things (philanthropists, nature/environmental groups. history buffs, etc.) can coordinate something better to do that if they want.

I don’t see any scenario where that works.  Too many people expect someone else to pick up their share of the load when it comes to public infrastructure and amenities.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Jammie on September 01, 2015, 05:08:35 pm
Davazz is back?

Yes, I've been busy for several days and haven't been here, but when I returned today, I had message number 2 from him. I reported when I got the first message and reported him again.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2015, 08:44:35 am
I haven't been here long enough.... what is a 'davazz' ?

And there is an FOTD in the past that seems to incite strong emotions... same kinda people?



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on September 02, 2015, 09:12:53 am
I haven't been here long enough.... what is a 'davazz' ?

And there is an FOTD in the past that seems to incite strong emotions... same kinda people?



Similar as in they are/were just terrible trolls that were banned under multiple user names. In FOTD's case, many, many user names. Very different in that FOTD is a very liberal burned out stoner hippy type and Davazz was always pissed if any poors came into his line of vision. I think both are older. I thought Davazz had moved onto some walled off wealthy enclave outside of Tulsa and was going to never be heard from again. I always expect FOTD to turn up again.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2015, 09:46:34 am

I don't have the answer about how to replace the money from state income tax. All I know is that my state has none and we aren't in the red. (not bragging, just sayin') Property taxes here are considerably higher then in OK, even though there was a 30% cut when gambling was legalized several years ago. A huge portion of the gambling money was supposed to go to education, but no one seems to believe that actually happened. Naturally, that makes rent higher here then in OK except for the itty bitty towns that have nothing left.

We have no toll roads. Do you have a wheel tax? Ours just went up to $4 per wheel. Our license plates have gone up, but are still cheaper then many states. ($43 for a 2010 Chevy)

We have a high hotel tax, but part of it is a "TIF" and goes to fund projects in our cities. I believe the rate is 14%.  Tax here is 7% and part of that is a city tax. The tax on food is 6%. I believe Tulsa's tax is 9%, but I don't know if that includes food or if it's all state tax.

The map that was posted does show that gas taxes are much less in OK then here. Cigarette tax is higher here also. So I don't know what a better alternative would be. Just asking.


I don't know what state you are in, but it is guaranteed that the differences are made up somewhere else besides income tax.  All states have different methods, but it all gets to the goal of funding the necessary (and some frivolous, unnecessary) functions.

Property tax is one that I consider to be an abomination since everything about it is taxed along the way - repeatedly - before starting the ongoing taxation.  But I also don't have a better way for funding the things they fund....  I have family that is literally being priced out of their houses - two of them from places that they built by hand, stick by stick, with every member of the family visiting from time to time to hammer a nail or put on a shingle or install cabinets or some other contribution.  Paid the onerous sales taxes on all house components.  Paid the retail price for the help that was hired - concrete work for footings - which included a taxed component.  Paid for tools, supplies, etc - all taxed.  And then get to pay ongoing taxes forever just to be able to stay and sit in the place they bought, paid for, and built 30+ years ago.  It is the American version of feudal Europe - ya gotta pay the "Lords and Ladies".  At least we aren't taxed to the point of being starved out of our country like so many Irish were.... yet...

One has already moved just to avoid the obscene escalation of taxes.  They were in a "classic" situation like the small towns around Tulsa.  People would come out to the rural areas, "love" what they saw in terms of lifestyle in a small town environment - getting away from the 'hustle and bustle' of 'big city life'.  Leave the crime behind.  Leave the city schools behind.  Leave the traffic behind - that sure backfired on all!  And so on.  Then move there with 100,000 of their closest friends bringing with them all the garbage they professed to desire to leave behind.  HOA anyone?  

Or 67 acres of cow pasture that has been brought into the city limits of Broken Arrow against the will of all the people in the area, so they can pay a water bill that doesn't provide city water...or city sewer...or city trash collection.  And the added benefit of now finding themselves INSIDE the area where they MUST keep the pasture mowed to less than 12" height or face consequences - fines.  Since the new-from-the-city-clown doesn't like pasture!  Tell me again why they moved to the country??  Any city slicker ever actually look at pasture?  Or have a clue as to what it is?  Or what it is for??  (Clues; making hay and feeding cattle.)

The people who have been there for decades are being bulldozed by the newbies who came out to make their Bass Pro Shop, and Rhema Cult, and what is becoming First Baptist Cult.  Small town America has been destroyed by the plague of locusts fleeing the city.  Broken Arrow.  Jenks.  Bixby.  Owasso.  Sapulpa.  Sand Springs.

Goes totally to the "growth for growth's sake" I and others have talked about for years.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2015, 09:48:55 am
Similar as in they are/were just terrible trolls that were banned under multiple user names. In FOTD's case, many, many user names. Very different in that FOTD is a very liberal burned out stoner hippy type and Davazz was always pissed if any poors came into his line of vision. I think both are older. I thought Davazz had moved onto some walled off wealthy enclave outside of Tulsa and was going to never be heard from again. I always expect FOTD to turn up again.


Wonder if FOTD was also Teatownclown...?  Haven't seen him around for a while either.

As for the wealthy enclave - ha!  That's topical - see my previous note!  He is one of "those" guys....



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on September 02, 2015, 10:13:03 am

Wonder if FOTD was also Teatownclown...?  Haven't seen him around for a while either.

As for the wealthy enclave - ha!  That's topical - see my previous note!  He is one of "those" guys....



Yes, he was Teatownclown and many others. Many of his names were Grateful Dead related.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on September 02, 2015, 12:33:26 pm
That's what I like about this forum. Non-judgmental, seldom into name calling, open to different views and always welcoming to all generations including "older people". Wait. Sorry, wrong forum.

I thought all those named monikers were pretty entertaining and occasionally enlightening. Now Friendly Bear? Not so much.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 02, 2015, 12:44:00 pm
I think Friendly Bear was an FOTD (Friend of the Devil). Aoxomoxoa. Etc. Friendly Bear...

(http://www.gypsyrose.com/products/images/products/preview/ph1280.jpg)

Anyway, cities grow. Things change. It would be up to those small towns to protect their growth with smart development. Same with the rural property owners. If you buy land "in the country" but "close enough" to the city, it is just a matter of time before it becomes city land. Now, if you buy land in Adair County, or whatever, you have some confidence that you can remain rural for your life. But if you work in the city, shop in the city, and recreate in the city--- all you really want is to flirt with rural life and be close enough to the city.

What happened to learning form Kansas?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on September 02, 2015, 12:44:27 pm
That's what I like about this forum. Non-judgmental, seldom into name calling, open to different views and always welcoming to all generations including "older people". Wait. Sorry, wrong forum.

I thought all those named monikers were pretty entertaining and occasionally enlightening. Now Friendly Bear? Not so much.

FOTD and Davazz had tendencies to PM some crazy.

As far as the other stuff, I do judge, I name call, I decide my own views and scoff at others' and I take issue with people, young or old, being on my lawn.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on September 02, 2015, 12:46:57 pm
What happened to learning form Kansas?

You answered that already.

Quote
CAN we learn? Sure.

WILL we learn? Nope.

Kansas and Wisconsin followed a hardcore conservative model trumpeted by Texas. Both have met object failure, financial ruin, and a lack of investment interest by desirable employers.  Intel, MS, Apple, major financial institutions, and corporate HQs look for stability and quality of life as much as cheap labor, cheap taxes, and cheap regulation.  If they wanted the Texas model, they'd just be in Texas which works do to a self sustaining loop... Same reason silicon valley works and lower Manhattan. Kansas can't be lower Manhattan, and it isn't Texas.

Look at the juxtaposition between hardcore conservative Wisconsin (financial and economic ruin) and moderate Minnesota (prospering).

But no... We won't learn. We will try to out fail them.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on September 02, 2015, 01:47:42 pm
FOTD and Davazz had tendencies to PM some crazy.

As far as the other stuff, I do judge, I name call, I decide my own views and scoff at others' and I take issue with people, young or old, being on my lawn.
You are my brother, father , grandfather or father in law from the sixties. In personality anyway.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on September 02, 2015, 02:02:50 pm
I think Friendly Bear was an FOTD (Friend of the Devil). Aoxomoxoa. Etc. Friendly Bear...

(http://www.gypsyrose.com/products/images/products/preview/ph1280.jpg)


Uranus, Friendly Bear, Aoxomoxoa, Teatownclown, FOTD, there were others I can’t recall now. All the same person.  I didn’t have a problem with his views and actually agreed with him more than not. But his overwhelming shtick was unhinged mocking condescension with a dash of racism. He was very tiring.

Davazz on the other hand was bigoted and elitist. His overwhelming shtick also was unhinged mocking condescension but his version had a whole helping of thinly veiled racism. Man he hated himself some poor people, usually non-white poor people.

Then there was Pluto/Shadows. Poor Neptune was surrounded.

Anyway, back on topic.

Rock Chalk!

We are talking Kansas, right?




Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on September 03, 2015, 09:06:04 am
Uranus, Friendly Bear, Aoxomoxoa, Teatownclown, FOTD, there were others I can’t recall now. All the same person.  I didn’t have a problem with his views and actually agreed with him more than not. But his overwhelming shtick was unhinged mocking condescension with a dash of racism. He was very tiring.

Davazz on the other hand was bigoted and elitist. His overwhelming shtick also was unhinged mocking condescension but his version had a whole helping of thinly veiled racism. Man he hated himself some poor people, usually non-white poor people.

Then there was Pluto/Shadows. Poor Neptune was surrounded.

Anyway, back on topic.

Rock Chalk!

We are talking Kansas, right?


99% sure Friendly Bear wasn’t Aox.  FB made some pretty nasty comments about George Kaiser which seemed to be anti-semetic.  Since Aox’s family came from similar lineage, pretty sure it wasn’t him.  I’m guessing Shadows may have crossed to the next dimension, we haven’t heard from him in a few years.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 03, 2015, 09:26:20 am
"Here’s Woeful New Economic Report Gov. Sam Brownback Doesn’t Want Kansans to See" (http://Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article32851836.html#storylink=cpy) - The Kansas City Star, 8/31/2015

The guy ran on a platform of getting Kansas ahead economically. His staff would publish this report on their website with taglines about how HIS administration was going to change the economic climate in Kansas.  And he did - slashing taxes, cutting liberal education spending, reducing quality of life spending, etc. Which made the climate overall much worse in Kansas. And the economy tanked.

All of a sudden, they don't post the report and they don't reference it.

Surely our leadership is taking notes from Kansas, learning how to hide failure.




Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on September 03, 2015, 09:55:25 am
"Here’s Woeful New Economic Report Gov. Sam Brownback Doesn’t Want Kansans to See" (http://Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article32851836.html#storylink=cpy) - The Kansas City Star, 8/31/2015

The guy ran on a platform of getting Kansas ahead economically. His staff would publish this report on their website with taglines about how HIS administration was going to change the economic climate in Kansas.  And he did - slashing taxes, cutting liberal education spending, reducing quality of life spending, etc. Which made the climate overall much worse in Kansas. And the economy tanked.

All of a sudden, they don't post the report and they don't reference it.

Surely our leadership is taking notes from Kansas, learning how to hide failure.




If oil doesn't rebound, we might make Kansas look good next year.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 03, 2015, 01:24:12 pm
Why we can't learn to live within our means, and learn that oil is a boom or bust industry, is truly striking. Our politicians with oil money are like the alcoholic who only works until he has enough to drink, then quits and spends it all... only to realize he messed up and beg for his job back.

"Hey oil is high, we're frikken rich! We can surely cut taxes and still pay for deferred maintenance on all our infrastructure and get our schools up to the regional standard. No way oil falls this time!"


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 10, 2015, 01:32:50 pm

The guy ran on a platform of getting Kansas ahead economically. His staff would publish this report on their website with taglines about how HIS administration was going to change the economic climate in Kansas.  And he did - slashing taxes, cutting liberal education spending, reducing quality of life spending, etc. Which made the climate overall much worse in Kansas. And the economy tanked.

All of a sudden, they don't post the report and they don't reference it.

Surely our leadership is taking notes from Kansas, learning how to hide failure.



Our leadership can't learn anything real from anyone.  I have family who moved here from Kansas, and as with most things they are astonished at both extremes - how OK is better than KS and how OK is so much worse than KS.  Lotta crazy to go around in both places - just seems to cover different "bases".


Diversion;
Can't fault Aox on musical taste, though.  Good stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfjjwlPGBAI



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on November 04, 2015, 01:30:10 pm
Oklahoma Treasurer: Major Revenue Streams Down in October

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-major-revenue-streams-down-october (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-major-revenue-streams-down-october)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma finance officials are reporting more grim fiscal news, with every major revenue stream to the state's treasury declining last month compared to the same month in 2014.

State Treasurer Ken Miller released figures on Tuesday that shows collections to the state treasury in October totaled $918 million. That figure is $95 million, or about 9 percent, less than October 2014.

It's the sixth consecutive month that gross receipts to the treasury were lower than the same month in 2014.

All of the major revenue streams contracted for the month, including oil and natural gas production taxes, motor vehicle taxes, income taxes and sales taxes.

Miller says the decline is attributable to a "spillover effect" from low oil prices. Benchmark U.S. crude closed Tuesday at $47.90 a barrel.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on November 04, 2015, 04:31:05 pm
Oklahoma Treasurer: Major Revenue Streams Down in October

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-major-revenue-streams-down-october (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-treasurer-major-revenue-streams-down-october)


Definite sign to the legislature we need to cut taxes more.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on November 04, 2015, 05:34:12 pm
I call shenanigans. We are producing more gas and more oil. While oil prices are down, the increase in production should help offset the decrease in price. We have more residents earning more money. The massive deficits is not "due to the oil bust," it is due to lies, deceit, and mismanagement. Even if oil revenues would have stayed steady, we would still be hundreds of millions in the hole.

Fun facts:
- gas production is up 25% since 2010 (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_prod_sum_dcu_sok_a.htm)  (natural gas prices are about where they were in 2010)
- Oklahoma oil production has nearly doubled since 2010 (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPOK2&f=M) (the price of oil is 62% of what it was in 2010 (http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.cfm))

By the numbers, we should easily be drawing more revenue from gas than we did in 2010. We should be losing a little, but not a ton of money on oil revenue compared to 2010 (prices down, production up). It is possible that the latest production numbers are WAY, WAY down... but I doubt it. Shutting down an existing well doesn't make sense for most producers. The guys I know involved haven't shut wells down anyway.

That is to say, unless some sort of tax breaks went into effect for new oil and gas production. (https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/tag/gross-production-tax/) If we reduced the standard tax rate from 7% to 2%, and extended tax breaks for horizontal drilling... that might help explain why we are broke (http://newsok.com/article/4856433).

Or if we eviscerated our tax base with tax cuts, reducing revenue from nearly 50% of all sources, that might explain why we are broke. Too bad no one saw this coming (http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2015/01/05/oklahoma-pulls-trigger-unaffordable-tax-cut/). I mean, its not like we predicted a $600,000,000 budget shortfall when we voted to put the cuts in to place. (http://www.news9.com/story/29026154/oklahomas-600m-budget-shortfall-has-some-questioning-upcoming-tax-cuts) It would be horrible if such cuts were sold arguing they would increase state revenues at a time when the State already faced a $100mil plus deficit, surely no elected official would make such a statement (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/oklahoma-governor-signs-income-tax-cut-into-law/article_9608180c-cf33-11e3-a1f8-0017a43b2370.html?_dc=830983717227.3546).


I think if we cut education a bit more we might have citizens so uneducated they don't realize what the (-) means. Politicians can then claim fiscal responsibility, declare victory, give themselves raises, and pass a constitutional amendment declaring themselves benevolent rulers for life.

Oil busts in Oklahoma are a guarantee. It isn't if, it is when. Did we really expect oil/gas revenue to pick up all the slack? Add in repeated tax cuts and continued tax loopholes (including for what was then BOOMING oil and gas producers) and the outcome was easily predictable.

I'm going to quit my job and then act SHOCKED when checks start bouncing...


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on November 04, 2015, 09:16:12 pm
I call shenanigans. We are producing more gas and more oil. While oil prices are down, the increase in production should help offset the decrease in price. We have more residents earning more money. The massive deficits is not "due to the oil bust," it is due to lies, deceit, and mismanagement. Even if oil revenues would have stayed steady, we would still be hundreds of millions in the hole.

Fun facts:
- gas production is up 25% since 2010 (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_prod_sum_dcu_sok_a.htm)  (natural gas prices are about where they were in 2010)
- Oklahoma oil production has nearly doubled since 2010 (http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPOK2&f=M) (the price of oil is 62% of what it was in 2010 (http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.cfm))

By the numbers, we should easily be drawing more revenue from gas than we did in 2010. We should be losing a little, but not a ton of money on oil revenue compared to 2010 (prices down, production up). It is possible that the latest production numbers are WAY, WAY down... but I doubt it. Shutting down an existing well doesn't make sense for most producers. The guys I know involved haven't shut wells down anyway.

That is to say, unless some sort of tax breaks went into effect for new oil and gas production. (https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/tag/gross-production-tax/) If we reduced the standard tax rate from 7% to 2%, and extended tax breaks for horizontal drilling... that might help explain why we are broke (http://newsok.com/article/4856433).

Or if we eviscerated our tax base with tax cuts, reducing revenue from nearly 50% of all sources, that might explain why we are broke. Too bad no one saw this coming (http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2015/01/05/oklahoma-pulls-trigger-unaffordable-tax-cut/). I mean, its not like we predicted a $600,000,000 budget shortfall when we voted to put the cuts in to place. (http://www.news9.com/story/29026154/oklahomas-600m-budget-shortfall-has-some-questioning-upcoming-tax-cuts) It would be horrible if such cuts were sold arguing they would increase state revenues at a time when the State already faced a $100mil plus deficit, surely no elected official would make such a statement (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/oklahoma-governor-signs-income-tax-cut-into-law/article_9608180c-cf33-11e3-a1f8-0017a43b2370.html?_dc=830983717227.3546).


I think if we cut education a bit more we might have citizens so uneducated they don't realize what the (-) means. Politicians can then claim fiscal responsibility, declare victory, give themselves raises, and pass a constitutional amendment declaring themselves benevolent rulers for life.

Oil busts in Oklahoma are a guarantee. It isn't if, it is when. Did we really expect oil/gas revenue to pick up all the slack? Add in repeated tax cuts and continued tax loopholes (including for what was then BOOMING oil and gas producers) and the outcome was easily predictable.

I'm going to quit my job and then act SHOCKED when checks start bouncing...

Are taxes on oil a flat amount per bbl or are they a percent of the sales price?

Natural gas prices have been relatively flat since 2010 (seasonal changes excepted).  If production is up, there should definitely be more tax revenue.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on November 05, 2015, 08:20:25 am
It is 2% of the produced value at the wellhead for the first three years, 7% thereafter, unless other incentives apply (which they will, after 3 years you can "enhance" the well and apply for secondary recovery tax breaks).

The production rate was set at 7% for decades. Special incentives went into play for directional drilling, when Oklahoma production started falling off and oil prices were down (late 1994), that allowed producers to be taxed at 1% until the well paid off (essentially, the state assumed some of the risk of the producer).  When the boom came back and fracking made old wells profitable and new wells possible, the tax break was set to automatically expire and the rate was set to go back to 7%. Instead of letting it expire our benevolent overlords expanded it to include all new production for 3 years at a rate of 2%. There are other incentives, payments, and exemptions for various wells.

Remember, if we didn't cut production taxes on oil and gas --- they would have just move their oil wells to Wisconsin.

Somehow Texas is able to tax production at 4.6% plus a penny per barrel for environmental assessment. Alaska has a base 35% production tax (http://www.tax.alaska.gov/programs/programs/index.aspx?60650) + up to 5 cents per barrel environmental fee.   Louisiana has a base rate of 12%.  (http://revenue.louisiana.gov/SeveranceTaxes/Oil) Many states add in environmental taxes, ad valorem taxes, and other various revenue streams. Like everything else, Oklahoma has convinced ourselves that the only way we can compete is by being cheaper than everyone else

Oil and gas severance is less than 7% of Oklahoma's tax revenue (http://okpolicy.org/gross-production-tax). We rely on oil and gas tax a little more than Colorado does. So blaming the revenue from oil and gas after slashing the tax, banking on record setting prices, and knowing it is a limited part of our revenue - is not a serious statement.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 17, 2015, 02:18:26 pm
Wow, cannon...you are starting to sound like me...  Be careful with that - you might become outcast!


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on December 07, 2015, 04:47:07 pm
Falling Oil Prices Hit Levels Not Seen Since 2009

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/falling-oil-prices-hit-levels-not-seen-2009 (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/falling-oil-prices-hit-levels-not-seen-2009)

Quote
Oil prices fell to their lowest levels in seven years, after OPEC officials failed to agree Friday on how to address the global supply glut.

By midday Monday, Brent crude futures fell 5 percent to $40.68 a barrel, the lowest price since 2009. The U.S. oil benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude dropped below $38 a barrel.

The decline sent energy stocks such as ExxonMobil, Chevron and Royal Dutch Shell tumbling, and helped drag the major stock indexes down sharply.

Oil prices have fallen more than 40 percent in the past year, as the industry confronts a worldwide oversupply problem. If Iranian sanctions are lifted, global production is expected to increase further.

OPEC officials held a seven-hour meeting Friday in Vienna to discuss whether to limit production, but the meeting turned rancorous and no agreement was reached.

"Any tiny risk that OPEC actually might do something during the next 6 months is completely off the table after Friday's meeting. With this risk out of the picture, the oil price declines further," said Bjarne Schieldrop, chief commodities analyst at SEB Markets, in a note quoted by The Wall Street Journal.

The falling oil prices are a boon for consumers, who are paying less for gasoline and heating oil, but it has been a brutal time for the energy business.

Sarah Emerson, managing director of consulting company ESAI Energy, told Bloomberg News, "We're in the midst of the worst." She went on to say:

"I think we'll be looking at a very different market in the next few months. Once there's more evidence that production is falling prices will start to recover."
But for now, a lot of investors are betting that prices will keep falling. The Financial Times reported that:

"Hedge funds are holding a near-record 'short' derivative positions equivalent to almost 360m barrels of crude that will benefit if prices fall.
"The bets come as many analysts see the oil glut extending well into 2016, as Opec members try to undermine higher-cost rivals. Output outside the cartel is expected to dip next year, but production from US shale, Canadian tar sands and other unconventional sources has proved more resilient than many expected."

Told you that story to tell you this one:

Overall Oklahoma Revenue Collections Continue to Fall

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/overall-oklahoma-revenue-collections-continue-fall (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/overall-oklahoma-revenue-collections-continue-fall)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Overall collections to the Oklahoma treasury are continuing to slide as a downturn in the energy industry keeps sending ripples through the state's economy.

Oklahoma Treasurer Ken Miller reported Monday that for the seventh consecutive month, gross receipts to the state treasury trailed those from the same month a year ago.

Miller reported that overall gross receipts for the month of November totaled $830.8 million, which is almost 2 percent below collections from November 2014.

It's the 11th consecutive month that collections from oil and natural gas production taxes trailed those from the same month in the prior year.

Sales tax collections also were down, but income tax collections and motor vehicle tax collections both were up.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 08, 2015, 07:52:29 am
INCOME TAX - our largest source of revenue, was actually up. Production taxes only make up 7% of the total. Yet we have a $1BIL budget shortfall.

Makes total sense.

THANK GOD YOU GOT SOME FISCAL CONSERVATIVES IN THERE TO STRAIGHTEN OUT OUR BUDGET PROBLEMS.

Liars. There is a difference between actually being fiscally conservative and just wanting to kill government revenue.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Ed W on December 08, 2015, 01:27:09 pm
One of the failed candidates for Senate District 34 said the state has a spending problen, not a revenue problem, and his plan to fix it involved "re-prioritizing" the budget. He did not delve into specifics, of course, but I took that to mean more robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've already seen money taken from education handed out as tax breaks to the wealthiest Oklahomans. Do you think that in a spirit of civic-mindedness they'd give it back?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on December 08, 2015, 03:33:54 pm
One of the failed candidates for Senate District 34 said the state has a spending problen, not a revenue problem, and his plan to fix it involved "re-prioritizing" the budget. He did not delve into specifics, of course, but I took that to mean more robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've already seen money taken from education handed out as tax breaks to the wealthiest Oklahomans. Do you think that in a spirit of civic-mindedness they'd give it back?

Was that the replacement for Brinkley (Who managed to fix his own revenue and spending problem with other’s money)?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Ed W on December 09, 2015, 08:19:52 am
Yep. He used creative finance. Senate District 34 includes Owasso and extends west to Sperry and Skiatook, I think.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on December 15, 2015, 04:41:35 pm
State revenue failure declared with $900 million budget hole projected

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cUai8A-CZ00/VZNxK38WHMI/AAAAAAAAEXM/RRgE4LzpTHg/s320/bankruptcy.jpg)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-revenue-failure-declared-with-million-budget-hole-projected/article_b3c4bc20-9b17-59c4-8ebb-bd074d4d45d8.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-revenue-failure-declared-with-million-budget-hole-projected/article_b3c4bc20-9b17-59c4-8ebb-bd074d4d45d8.html)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY — State officials on Tuesday said a revenue failure is expected for the current fiscal year.

The state is expected to enact midyear budget reductions for appropriated state agencies.

“A shortfall is all but certain after 18 months with the oil price as it is, so agencies have been formally advised to prepare for a midyear reduction if they have not already,” finance secretary Preston Doerflinger said in a news release. “It’s going to be the biggest fiscal challenge since the years following the 2008 recession, and we’ll need to meet it head on with all hands on deck.”

The revenue failure was to be declared for fiscal year 2016, which began July 1.

For fiscal year 2017, lawmakers are expected to have about $900 million less than was available in 2016, officials said.

The Board of Equalization will meet Dec. 21 to certify how much is available to spend and revise the fiscal year 2016 revenue forecast.

The Office of Management and Enterprise Services reported on collections for the state's general revenue fund in a news release Tuesday afternoon. November collections of $354.1 million were $50.1 million, or 12.4 percent, below the official estimate upon which the FY 2016 appropriated state budget was based, and $28.4 million, or 7.4 percent, below prior year collections.

Total collections for the first five months of FY 2016 were $2.1 billion, which is $101.9 million, or 4.6 percent, below the official estimate and $97.3 million, or 4.4 percent, below prior year collections.

From the Oklahoma Policy Institute:

A revenue failure occurs when collections going to the General Revenue Fund fall below 95 percent of the certified estimate. The Director of the Office of Management and Enterprise Services declares a revenue failure and reduces funds going to agencies by however much is necessary to bring spending into balance with revenue collections. The Oklahoma Constitution specifies that in the event of a revenue failure, each appropriated agency must be cut in equal proportion to their share of total appropriations from the General Revenue Fund.

There have been four revenue failures since 2000, in budget years 2002, 2003, 2009, and 2010. The budget year 2009 cuts were later restored.

When a revenue failure is declared, the Legislature can use up to three-eighths of the Rainy Day Fund to prevent budget cuts. The Rainy Day Fund was tapped to address mid-year shortfalls in budget years 2003 and 2010.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on December 15, 2015, 04:54:23 pm
Revenue Failure "All But Certain" for Oklahoma

And Doerflinger's blaming OPEC...

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/revenue-failure-all-certain-oklahoma (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/revenue-failure-all-certain-oklahoma)


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Hoss on December 15, 2015, 06:00:26 pm
Revenue Failure "All But Certain" for Oklahoma

And Doerflinger's blaming OPEC...

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/revenue-failure-all-certain-oklahoma (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/revenue-failure-all-certain-oklahoma)

It's the fault of the Oklahoma legislature for expecting the windfall of oil prices to continue and not try to do something about it before the bottom fell out.  Can't blame OPEC for this.  Everyone knows how volatile the oil market is (I sure do, as it drives the company I work for...but they actually diversified so it won't impact us too badly) and Oklahoma should have built in a bigger 'cushion'.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 16, 2015, 09:53:20 am
I love blaming OPEC.  They are a cartel of largely suspect countries who manipulate oil prices to increase their own wealth and put geopolitical pressure on their "enemies." What they have done the last couple of years is stop being an effective cartel and let the market drive the price of oil.

Stupid market economics!

I know it is hurting Oklahoma. I know it really is effecting revenue. But if Oklahoma isn't clear that oil booms turn into oil busts, then we probably are not capable of learning any budget lesson.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on December 16, 2015, 10:12:49 am
Time to cut taxes again.  You know, to raise revenue ’n’ stuff.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on December 16, 2015, 10:25:17 am
Where is that Cabbage guy, Sauerkraut? He could 'splain all this to us. It can't be poor state leadership.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on December 16, 2015, 10:40:59 am
Where is that Cabbage guy, Sauerkraut? He could 'splain all this to us. It can't be poor state leadership.

He probably can’t stand to show his face around here anymore since Obama was responsible for high gas prices and all.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on January 13, 2016, 02:37:45 pm
So the cuts are hitting education now and our good governess sees no need for new taxes or a special session. There's a funny/sad article on the Lost Ogle about how to shore up education funding in oklahoma:
http://www.thelostogle.com/2016/01/12/8-ways-to-raise-money-for-oklahoma-education/

In that article, I found this:
(http://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/pam-pollard-facebook-post-429x400.jpg)

Another cray/cray random wingbat facebook posting? Certainly, Yes, but with a twist. Pam Pollard is the Chair of the Oklahoma Republican Party. Seriously.

http://kfor.com/2015/10/11/pam-pollard-wins-the-vote-becomes-okgop-chair/





Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: TheArtist on January 13, 2016, 03:14:02 pm
So the cuts are hitting education now and our good governess sees no need for new taxes or a special session. There's a funny/sad article on the Lost Ogle about how to shore up education funding in oklahoma:
http://www.thelostogle.com/2016/01/12/8-ways-to-raise-money-for-oklahoma-education/

In that article, I found this:
(http://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/pam-pollard-facebook-post-429x400.jpg)

Another cray/cray random wingbat facebook posting? Certainly, Yes, but with a twist. Pam Pollard is the Chair of the Oklahoma Republican Party. Seriously.

http://kfor.com/2015/10/11/pam-pollard-wins-the-vote-becomes-okgop-chair/





Workforce ready?

They wouldn't even have the qualifications to work at my little store.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on January 13, 2016, 03:27:32 pm
Workforce ready?

They wouldn't even have the qualifications to work at my little store.

They'd be ready to Pam Pollard Jesus though


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: rebound on January 13, 2016, 03:43:54 pm
So the cuts are hitting education now and our good governess sees no need for new taxes or a special session. There's a funny/sad article on the Lost Ogle about how to shore up education funding in oklahoma:
http://www.thelostogle.com/2016/01/12/8-ways-to-raise-money-for-oklahoma-education/

In that article, I found this:
(http://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/pam-pollard-facebook-post-429x400.jpg)

Another cray/cray random wingbat facebook posting? Certainly, Yes, but with a twist. Pam Pollard is the Chair of the Oklahoma Republican Party. Seriously.

http://kfor.com/2015/10/11/pam-pollard-wins-the-vote-becomes-okgop-chair/


Wait.   I didn't read the article first, and just read the comment.  I thought it was somebody being overly sarcastic, and doing an excellent job of parodying the wing-nuts.   Is this seriously a real comment by a real person in a position of relative standing in OK?  Good.  Effing. God.     The level of "you have got to be kidding me" is so high here I don't even know how to react.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 13, 2016, 04:06:33 pm
I thought that entire thing was written in sarcasm font.

However, his facebook post pretty well lines up with the written platform of the Oklahoma Republic Party, so I'm not surprised. Saddened, yes.

Just think, we could have the same stellar educational system as Somalia or Yemen. Kids stay home and study religion.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on January 13, 2016, 04:16:52 pm
Kids stay home and study religion.

Yeah but the girls get to cook!


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 13, 2016, 04:38:51 pm
The Lost Ogle reminds me of Phoenix New Times an LA Weekly http://www.voicemediagroup.com/ (http://www.voicemediagroup.com/) an alternative news publication. I take the article and Pam's comment as a load of sarcasm based on a real issue.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on January 13, 2016, 04:42:04 pm
The Lost Ogle reminds me of Phoenix New Times an LA Weekly http://www.voicemediagroup.com/ (http://www.voicemediagroup.com/) an alternative news publication. I take the article and Pam's comment as a load of sarcasm based on a real issue.

Creeped her FB.  Pam's comment does not appear to be sarcasm.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 13, 2016, 04:51:26 pm

Wait.   I didn't read the article first, and just read the comment.  I thought it was somebody being overly sarcastic, and doing an excellent job of parodying the wing-nuts.   Is this seriously a real comment by a real person in a position of relative standing in OK?  Good.  Effing. God.     The level of "you have got to be kidding me" is so high here I don't even know how to react.


It's Oklahoma... yeah, it's real.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 13, 2016, 04:53:30 pm
Creeped her FB.  Pam's comment does not appear to be sarcasm.

My bad. Went back an re-read her comment an picked up this lovely nugget of nuttieness.......

"You can save money on text books by using the family Bible which teaches a LOT of science, history, geography, psychology, sociology and even grammar and vocabulary."


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on January 13, 2016, 04:58:06 pm
Creeped her FB.  Pam's comment does not appear to be sarcasm.
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/michelle-dobyne.jpg)


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on January 21, 2016, 10:02:53 am
Apparently the state GOP isn’t capable of nutting up and increasing income taxes with no end in sight of dropping oil prices nor any clue when oil prices might return to higher levels.  Even with budget cuts, there will still be government waste- it is what government appears to do best.  Personally, I don’t want to live in a state which resembles Afghanistan due to reduction in essential services and education, I’d gladly pay more in personal taxes to offset losses from oil revenue to the state.

Quote
Lawmakers fear second revenue failure for current fiscal year

OKLAHOMA CITY — Lawmakers are concerned that a spiraling drop in oil prices could result in a second revenue failure for the current fiscal year.

A number of scenarios to deal with it are under discussion, including additional cuts in general revenue to state appropriated agencies, House Appropriations and Budget Committee Chairman Earl Sears, R-Bartlesville, confirmed Wednesday.

“If oil continues to drop, I feel there will be another revenue failure for 2016,” Sears said in response to questions about the budget.

The regular session begins Feb. 1, when lawmakers will craft a fiscal year 2017 budget. That budget is expected to be at least $900.8 million less than the current fiscal year budget.

A revenue failure for fiscal year 2016 was declared in December. As a result, Finance Secretary Preston Doerflinger made a 3 percent across the board cut in general revenue to state appropriated agencies.

Doerflinger can make across the board cuts to state agencies, but only lawmakers can make targeted cuts, Sears said.

“He can’t do targeted cuts, but we can,” Sears said.

Sears emphasized that no decision has been made on how lawmakers will proceed.

Sears, Doerflinger and Senate Appropriations Chairman Clark Jolley, R-Edmond, are expected to meet Thursday to discuss numerous funding policies regarding the 2016 budget, Sears said.

One item under consideration is increasing the cuts to some state appropriated agencies up to 5 percent from 3 percent, he said. Such a move would allow targeted cuts to cushion the blow to some agencies.

House Republicans caucused on Tuesday to discuss the budget. Senate Republicans met Wednesday to discuss the budget.

“As oil prices continue to drop, I think it is likely you will see an additional revenue shortfall announced because of our dependence on gross production taxes,” said Sen. Brian Crain, R-Tulsa.

Barbara Hoberock 405-528-2465

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/lawmakers-fear-second-revenue-failure-for-current-fiscal-year/article_679ac52a-1655-591b-b554-e236437302db.html


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on January 21, 2016, 10:21:13 am
Bloodletting. Once the waste and evil spirits are drained out, then we can get healthy again. If the patient isn't comatose. (Trumpies...this is satire)


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 21, 2016, 10:31:38 am
I heard on the radio this morning that budget cuts will further reduce the number of levy and dam inspectors in Oklahoma. We currently have 9 for the several thousand dams and levies we have. We can receive something like $30mil in matching federal funds if we meet our funding obligations of $18mil a year.  We haven't met that in years and certainly won't this year...  so we will let the dams/levies continue to crumble until a disaster happens, then beg Uncle Sam for cash and launch investigations into how this could have happened.

Same story with Medicaid expansion. When we are flat broke we will beg for the "free" money and whine that the "free" period is over and we have to immediately do a 2% match (or whatever).

Highway funds.

Police funds.

Anything that requires a state match, we're probably losing out on.

I'm not worried about losing funding for quality of life projects, while I think its stupid to cut museums, art, music, parks and other quality of life items first - I get it. Times are tough and Oklahoma City sees those things as luxuries. But even the most right wing anti-tax guy has to understand that "deferring" spending on roads, bridges, and other capital projects simply costs us more money down the road, and costs us commerce in the mean time. Cutting spending on education at all levels is like Pfizer cutting its R&D budget, the immediate impact might be minimal, but you have mortgaged long term gains.

But hey, with me tax savings I can go see a movie with my family. So there's that.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 21, 2016, 12:15:19 pm
I heard on the radio this morning that budget cuts will further reduce the number of levy and dam inspectors in Oklahoma. We currently have 9 for the several thousand dams and levies we have. We can receive something like $30mil in matching federal funds if we meet our funding obligations of $18mil a year.  We haven't met that in years and certainly won't this year...  so we will let the dams/levies continue to crumble until a disaster happens, then beg Uncle Sam for cash and launch investigations into how this could have happened.

Same story with Medicaid expansion. When we are flat broke we will beg for the "free" money and whine that the "free" period is over and we have to immediately do a 2% match (or whatever).

Highway funds.

Police funds.

Anything that requires a state match, we're probably losing out on.

I'm not worried about losing funding for quality of life projects, while I think its stupid to cut museums, art, music, parks and other quality of life items first - I get it. Times are tough and Oklahoma City sees those things as luxuries. But even the most right wing anti-tax guy has to understand that "deferring" spending on roads, bridges, and other capital projects simply costs us more money down the road, and costs us commerce in the mean time. Cutting spending on education at all levels is like Pfizer cutting its R&D budget, the immediate impact might be minimal, but you have mortgaged long term gains.

But hey, with me tax savings I can go see a movie with my family. So there's that.


You give the RWRE  WAAAYYYYY too much credit!!  They not only don't 'have' to understand - they don't actually understand.  And the most unbelievable part of it is how many of them really aren't very well off, but continue to vote directly against their own self-interest for people who do real physical and financial harm to them!!


To save MAYBE a couple hundred bucks a year on a $100 k income...probably noticeably less...

Or $20 on a $50 k income.





Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on January 21, 2016, 12:22:51 pm
I love the World headline, "Yes! We Are Angry!"

Other than Kasich, that pretty much sums up the republican candidates this time but especially Trump. And what do humans do when they don't understand what's happening around them? They get angry.

Trump adds a little more negativity than the others though. Even his tag line, "Let's Make America Great Again!" is weird. America is great. We don't poison our political opponents. We are a magnet for masses yearning to be free and we are among the greatest in personal wealth the world has ever seen. He has taken the "negative sell" technique to new levels of success.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Ed W on January 21, 2016, 12:43:09 pm
"Let's make America great again!" It clearly resonates with some but it's sorely lacking on details. Most of The Donald's slogans are like that and he bristles at supplying any real information.

You can fool some of the people all of the time and apparently that applies to about 35% of registered Republicans. It's depressing.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 21, 2016, 01:15:14 pm
Let's make America great again!

I want to know if he is talking about going back to Obamas first term with massive government expansion on healthcare and unreal corporate bailouts -  or back to the wars, economic collapse, unemployment, and ballooning budgets under Bush II. Maybe the scandals, gun control and isolationism under Clinton. The economic wobbles and malaise of Bush I. The ridiculous increases in budget, giving missiles to Iran and WMDs to Iraq, government toppling, apartheid support, gun control and granting of immigration amnesty under Reagan. The energy crisis, economic downturn and water treading done under Carter. Whateverthehell Ford did. The antics of Nixon. Or go way back to when we had high corporate taxes, high tax rates on the rich, and high union membership?

I need him to define an era we are to emulate. Or, I guess, general platitudes and vague Golden Age statements are probably enough to run a country.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on January 21, 2016, 01:19:30 pm
I want to know if he is talking about going back to Obamas first term with massive government expansion on healthcare and unreal corporate bailouts -  or back to the wars, economic collapse, unemployment, and ballooning budgets under Bush II. Maybe the scandals, gun control and isolationism under Clinton. The economic wobbles and malaise of Bush I. The ridiculous increases in budget, giving missiles to Iran and WMDs to Iraq, government toppling, apartheid support, gun control and granting of immigration amnesty under Reagan. The energy crisis, economic downturn and water treading done under Carter. Whateverthehell Ford did. The antics of Nixon. Or go way back to when we had high corporate taxes, high tax rates on the rich, and high union membership?

I need him to define an era we are to emulate. Or, I guess, general platitudes and vague Golden Age statements are probably enough to run a country.

Maybe back to the days when his father refused to rent apartments to blacks?
http://gawker.com/woody-guthrie-despised-his-landlord-donald-trumps-racis-1754282007


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 21, 2016, 04:07:13 pm

The energy crisis, economic downturn and water treading done under Carter. Whateverthehell Ford did. The antics of Nixon. Or go way back to when we had high corporate taxes, high tax rates on the rich, and high union membership?

I need him to define an era we are to emulate. Or, I guess, general platitudes and vague Golden Age statements are probably enough to run a country.


The contrived energy crisis was in Nixon's regime.  OPEC, in conjunction with Big Oil and our CIA sat down and applied "Harvard School of Business" analysis to how to make money in oil move faster, thereby creating larger profits (turns per year along with higher prices).  OPEC was still unsophisticated enough at that point in time that they didn't realize they could make such a thing as the Burj Kalifa if they just charged us a little more for oil.  If ya have a barrel of oil you sell for $2.50 and make 20%...well that is nowhere as good as a barrel at $5.00 and make 20%.  Simple calculation that they were taught by US.

And while the mideast has been a huge mess for hundreds of years, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi worked as the figurehead after the early 50's CIA coup that got rid of the constitutional monarchy that had been around for 30 years or so.  Breeding even more of the hatred in the area...and leading to the 1979 revolution.

But the Shah saw the benefit of higher oil prices along with Saudi and everyone else that formed OPEC, so we had a crisis.

Ford did a couple things - first pardoned Nixon, which, as much as I disliked Nixon, was the best thing any President could have done at the time.  Put an end to that insanity. 

Second was his use of the veto and the way he worked with Congress...very well.  He vetoed more bills per year than any modern President and made them stick.  For a guy that was only around for about 2 1/2 years...not too shabby.

Carter was another one who inherited a gawd-awful mess...the contrived energy crisis of 1979 was not a new one, it was the continuation of the 1974 mess.  The economic problems both he and Ford had to deal with came directly from the bungling of the end of VietNam era of carp.  And 11% inflation!!  BUT, wage and price controls...Really??   ID10T-ic.  But what can one expect from Nixon?

Inflation was a continuation and as for unemployment...well, if Carter's was "catastrophically bad at 7.2 peak for one year, what does that make Reagan's 3 year numbers of 1981 at 7.6%.  1982 at 9.7%.  And 1983 at 9.6%.  But by 1984 we did manage to get back down to 7.5%.  STILL higher than Carter's worst year!

The lies and spreading of uncertainty goes on by both parties to a certain degree.  But it is obvious that the Republicontin's are master's and do SO much more of it, that the Dems pale by comparison.

Oh, yeah...we haven't even touched on the fact that at the end of Carter's last fiscal year, those "deficit" monger Dems had racked up $900 billion in national debt....in 200 years.  By the end of Raygun's last fiscal year we were at $2.6 trillion.  290% increase in 8 years!

And how the last year of Baby Bush added $1.9 trillion to the debt.  And the end of Obama's first fiscal year the adder was $1.65 trillion - that's a 15% reduction while fighting Baby Bush's record recession.  By the end of fiscal 2015, there was $330 billion added to the debt.  That is a reduction of over 80%.  While bringing the longest economic recovery in the history of the planet - anywhere, anytime.  But Faux News still says we are in 'shambles'....yeah, right.


As for those high taxes - well they also had high exemptions...50% and better, bringing real tax rates a whole lot closer to today's.  Rockefeller was the one specifically targeted with the 95% income tax rate and he never paid anywhere near that after adjustments.





Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on January 21, 2016, 05:48:13 pm

I need him to define an era we are to emulate. Or, I guess, general platitudes and vague Golden Age statements are probably enough to run a country.

I saw a cool headline somewhere on the net,"REPUBLICANS PROMISE ON THE FIRST DAY OF THEIR PRESIDENCY TO REPEAL THE TWENTIETH CENTURY!"


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on January 26, 2016, 01:11:06 pm
Oklahoma health commissioner proposes $1.50 cigarette tax increase

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahoma-health-commissioner-proposes-cigarette-tax-increase/article_dc3729a6-fb98-521d-bb8b-a861d3685050.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahoma-health-commissioner-proposes-cigarette-tax-increase/article_dc3729a6-fb98-521d-bb8b-a861d3685050.html)

Quote
Oklahoma Health Commissioner Terry Cline said Tuesday he wants to raise the state's cigarette tax by $1.50 per pack to pay for teachers and expand the Insure Oklahoma program for low-income workers.

The proposed increase is being carried by state Rep. Doug Cox, R-Grove, as House Joint Resolution 1058, a legislative referendum that would take a vote of the people to enact.
Cline said the tax increase would generate $182 million a year while driving down cigarette consumption by about 10 percent.

As written, the measure would direct 66 percent of the proceeds — about $120 million — to teacher salaries, 32 percent to Insure Oklahoma and 2 percent to pediatric cancer research and treatment through the University Hospitals.

Cline said the increase would effectively apply to tribal smoke shops as well as non-tribal vendors under current tobacco compacts.
The state cigarette tax is now $1.03 per pack.

Cline noted Oklahoma continues to rank among the worst states for overall health despite some improvements.

"I'd like to get us out of the bottom 10," he said. "One of the things we can do is attack tobacco."

Cline said polling commissioned by the Tobacco Settlement Endowment Trust shows Oklahomans support a higher cigarette tax. A $1.50 per pack increase, Cline said, would rank Oklahoma's tax among the 15 highest in the country.

Statistics provided by Cline showed cigarette consumption in Oklahoma has declined as price increases, but that excise tax revenue has been relatively steady for the past decade.

Adult smokers have declined from about one-third of the population in 1990 to 21.1 percent currently. Youth smoking rates have fallen by more than half since 1999.

Those rates remain above the national average, however.

Cline acknowledged the new tax would fall disproportionately on the poor, but said he hoped it would also be more of an incentive to quite smoking. He said smoking is more prevalent among low-income groups, including those reliant on Medicaid or who have no insurance at all, and those same people tend to have more health problems than non-smokers and higher-income Oklahomans.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 27, 2016, 07:46:51 am
Argh.

That would mean we are funding education with a source we are actively trying to eliminate. That seems like a good long term plan.

While I have no affinity for cigarettes, and taxing them to pay for healthcare and prevent youth smoking is open season as far as Im concerned, unrelated taxes on an unpopular product seems like a dubious proposition. Next we tax beer to pay for roads?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on January 27, 2016, 01:32:22 pm

That would mean we are funding education with a source we are actively trying to eliminate. That seems like a good long term plan.


Yeah, that.  I guess you get the money where you can.  It sure as hell isn't going to come from successful state governance.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on January 27, 2016, 01:52:09 pm
Oil-Field Tax Break Authored by Senate President Benefits His Employer

https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2016/01/27/oil-field-tax-break-authored-by-senate-president-benefits-his-employer/ (https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2016/01/27/oil-field-tax-break-authored-by-senate-president-benefits-his-employer/)

(https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/files/2016/01/brian-bingman.jpg)

Quote
The tax break on electricity used to power old “waterflood” recovery projects was authored in 2005 by now-Senate President Pro Tempore Brian Bingman, R-Sapulpa.

The first company to apply for and receive the exemption was Uplands Resources Inc. of Tulsa. At the time, Bingman was the company’s land manager. He currently works there as vice president of land and operations.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 29, 2016, 12:05:45 pm
"Let's make America great again!" It clearly resonates with some but it's sorely lacking on details. Most of The Donald's slogans are like that and he bristles at supplying any real information.

You can fool some of the people all of the time and apparently that applies to about 35% of registered Republicans. It's depressing.


PLUS the 25% or so who are Cruz fans...that's 60% of Republicontins!!




Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on February 10, 2016, 12:25:57 pm
Suspension of Tax Credits Likely to Impact Poor

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/suspension-tax-credits-likely-impact-poor (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/suspension-tax-credits-likely-impact-poor)

Quote
The Senate Finance Committee passes a measure suspending 20 tax credits for two years. Some credits were removed from the bill, but some remaining like the earned income tax credit and the child care tax credit would most impact the poor and working poor. It’s a cause for concern by advocates who don’t want to see the poor bear the brunt of the cuts. David Blatt is with the Oklahoma Policy Institute, and he believes subsidies for oil and gas production and property tax exemptions for business need to be in the discussion.

The measure must still pass the full Senate.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on February 10, 2016, 07:53:59 pm
Kansas has given up on learning. Education budget cut in half. Teacher pensions on the block. Tax cuts for the rich untouched. Suddenly, Oklahoma doesn't look so bad to those teachers who fled to the north?
From Esquire magazine:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/today-fiasco-great-state-kansas-193055028.html


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on February 11, 2016, 04:27:07 pm
State budget hole grows to more than $1 billion

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-budget-hole-grows-to-more-than-billion/article_91a29555-4b75-52f9-a632-1efafeb3ba60.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/state-budget-hole-grows-to-more-than-billion/article_91a29555-4b75-52f9-a632-1efafeb3ba60.html)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY — Lawmakers are now expected to have $1.3 billion less to appropriate in fiscal year 2017, according to revised numbers released Thursday.

The Board of Equalization is set to meet Tuesday to certify what lawmakers will have available to spend in the next state budget.

Earlier estimates put the budget hole at $900.3 million.

John Estus, a spokesman for the Office of Management and Enterprise Services, said the new figures are not a surprise.

Well...glad it's not a surprise at least...


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on February 11, 2016, 06:53:19 pm
Well, here is the quandary. How can this be blamed on (godless) Democrats, Liberals, Obama, Socialists and Planned Parenthood? We elected almost all conservative Republicans to the state house, a conservative Republican Governor and tons of good conservative business minded Christian appointees along with conservative Republican mayors, state Senators and Congressmen. Our conservative credentials are impeccable.

How could this have happened in such a red state?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: TheArtist on February 12, 2016, 08:39:55 am
Well, here is the quandary. How can this be blamed on (godless) Democrats, Liberals, Obama, Socialists and Planned Parenthood? We elected almost all conservative Republicans to the state house, a conservative Republican Governor and tons of good conservative business minded Christian appointees along with conservative Republican mayors, state Senators and Congressmen. Our conservative credentials are impeccable.

How could this have happened in such a red state?

Its Obamas fault ya silly goon. Geesh   Oh, and gay people getting married and all the illegal immigrants.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 12, 2016, 09:07:40 am
Well, here is the quandary. How can this be blamed on (godless) Democrats, Liberals, Obama, Socialists and Planned Parenthood? We elected almost all conservative Republicans to the state house, a conservative Republican Governor and tons of good conservative business minded Christian appointees along with conservative Republican mayors, state Senators and Congressmen. Our conservative credentials are impeccable.

How could this have happened in such a red state?

Government operates best when there is a variety of opinions both heard, and that must be reckoned with in order to proceed. When any single ideology can brush aside all others, it almost always leads to disaster.  When the liberals had cart blanch in California, they drove it into the ground with overspending (not having the courage or political capital to raise taxes to pay for what they wanted to spend). I'm confident an all Democratic house, senate and governor with no meaningful dissent could eventually find a way to go overboard and turn their ideology into governmental disaster.

But there is no doubt that the conservative dream has been tested in Kansas, and tested in Oklahoma. Low taxes, gutting public education, low spending on everything but police state infrastructure ("tough on crime"), fight against unions, removal or degradation of safety nets and social programs, an attitude that poor people don't need help - they need to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," and a focus of government on what it thinks the morality of its people should be.

It hasn't worked well at all. Poor people are poorer. Uneducated people are more uneducated. Good jobs have not come flooding in. (and I'm discounting both the boom, and bust from the oil field)

Time to go back to a democracy with mixed opinions, divergent views, and compromise.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on February 12, 2016, 10:58:04 am
Government operates best when there is a variety of opinions both heard, and that must be reckoned with in order to proceed. When any single ideology can brush aside all others, it almost always leads to disaster.  When the liberals had cart blanch in California, they drove it into the ground with overspending (not having the courage or political capital to raise taxes to pay for what they wanted to spend). I'm confident an all Democratic house, senate and governor with no meaningful dissent could eventually find a way to go overboard and turn their ideology into governmental disaster.

But there is no doubt that the conservative dream has been tested in Kansas, and tested in Oklahoma. Low taxes, gutting public education, low spending on everything but police state infrastructure ("tough on crime"), fight against unions, removal or degradation of safety nets and social programs, an attitude that poor people don't need help - they need to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," and a focus of government on what it thinks the morality of its people should be.

It hasn't worked well at all. Poor people are poorer. Uneducated people are more uneducated. Good jobs have not come flooding in. (and I'm discounting both the boom, and bust from the oil field)

Time to go back to a democracy with mixed opinions, divergent views, and compromise.

Aside from all this, which I do agree with, <$30bbl oil is at the heart of the short-fall.

Five years ago when we designed and started building steam generators, oil had remained steady over $75/bbl for six months.  At any point over the next three years or so, most people thought $60/bbl was the lowest oil would ever go again.  We had tested around $150/bbl in 2008 and it stayed in and around $75-$100/bbl from late ’09 forward.

The state, much like many in the oil business, hired and spent (and cut personal income tax) with the assumption $30 oil was long a thing of the past.  A “bust” would have been $50/bbl, instead WTI was almost 1/2 that the other day.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on February 12, 2016, 11:41:58 am
Aside from all this, which I do agree with, <$30bbl oil is at the heart of the short-fall.


Lack of diversification and and too much palm greasing


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on February 12, 2016, 12:15:01 pm
Its not like it was unpredictable. It just wasn't predicted. Its kind of like gambling. If you're an addict you know you can lose, you just never expect or plan for it.

I know these cycles are devastating to the industry and to state revenues but these guys ran as conservatives on platforms of fiscal responsibility as opposed to the more moderate or liberal candidates who wouldn't or couldn't put "conservative for...." on their push-in signs. They must be accountable instead of blaming the energy industry or internet taxation.

It was their job to make sure we had enough money/taxation to pay our bills, diversify our economy and advance our state. They instead spent an inordinate amount of time, energy and credibility trying to vanquish their enemies and set up a theocratic state which accomplished none of those goals.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2016, 01:52:11 pm
Well, here is the quandary. How can this be blamed on (godless) Democrats, Liberals, Obama, Socialists and Planned Parenthood? We elected almost all conservative Republicans to the state house, a conservative Republican Governor and tons of good conservative business minded Christian appointees along with conservative Republican mayors, state Senators and Congressmen. Our conservative credentials are impeccable.

How could this have happened in such a red state?


sauerkraut.  Breadburner.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 12, 2016, 08:03:28 pm

But there is no doubt that the conservative dream has been tested in Kansas, and tested in Oklahoma. Low taxes, gutting public education, low spending on everything but police state infrastructure ("tough on crime"), fight against unions, removal or degradation of safety nets and social programs, an attitude that poor people don't need help - they need to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," and a focus of government on what it thinks the morality of its people should be.


But we need more money for education because educators dont put up a fight when it comes time to grease the corrections donors.

Major pay raise for Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers, other state laws take effect  http://newsok.com/article/5380982

One month later:  OKLAHOMA CITY — An short-staffed Highway Patrol can no longer afford to hire new troopers due to the state's ongoing budget crisis, officials
said this week.  The only reason the agency can train its latest crop of 35 recruits, who started a 20-week training course in late January, is because the Turnpike Authority has agreed to pick up the roughly $5 million tab.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on February 16, 2016, 09:59:42 am
So while Rome was burning and Nero was fiddling around:

-School consolidation has been shot down

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/school-consolidation-bill-shut-down-in-committee-after-opponents-swarm/article_9ff7fb36-f142-51bd-b528-27fdfc25c929.html

-A bill requiring anti-abortion curriculum is advancing in the house, it also authorizes state-funded PSA’s.

Quote
for the purpose of achieving an abortion-free society.”
The bill is called the “Humanity of the Unborn Child Act,” and Coody said its intention is to instruct teenagers that life begins at conception.

Life beginning at conception is a concept up to religious interpretation (primarily Christian), so that is basically advancing one religion over others, or lack thereof.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/bill-that-would-require-anti-abortion-school-curriculum-advances-in/article_3ae38786-0b0b-5dfc-ad1c-ac816edf3fe2.html

-School vouchers passed committee

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/education/school-vouchers-eke-through-oklahoma-house-committee/article_1d2cc1bc-8c5d-5bc7-b80e-db7c7e63b974.html

And, of course, four new bills have been introduced to bring the Ten Commandments back to the Capitol grounds.

Good work, OK Legislature!


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on February 16, 2016, 10:16:41 am
Watched Oklahoma Horizon on OETA this weekend. Always impressed with their even handed approach to Oklahoma issues. The more learned, experienced legislators are all over this shortage with analysis of the budget problems and insightful solutions. Then there are the idealogues that merely pass off the shortage as growing pains in our process of weening ourselves from high taxation and Federal intervention. And of course they prevail.

It was pointed out that the legislature is aware of Kansas' problems but note that they merely weened themselves too quickly. Oklahoma on the other hand intent on spreading the pain out over a ten year period. So, there ain't no learning going on. Its slow motion bankruptcy.

Of note is this sobering fact. About 40% of Oklahoma's budget is dependent on matching funds from Federal programs. They intend to let those funds go to other states so we can be....self sustaining. So, our federal taxes are helping other states but we have the moral high ground. The view isn't so good from the moral high ground.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 16, 2016, 11:48:26 am

Of note is this sobering fact. About 40% of Oklahoma's budget is dependent on matching funds from Federal programs. They intend to let those funds go to other states so we can be....self sustaining. So, our federal taxes are helping other states but we have the moral high ground. The view isn't so good from the moral high ground.



That high "moral" (immoral) ground is from the bottom of a $1 billion hole.




Today's Oklahoma legislative minute....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg&list=RDInRDF_0lfHk&index=25



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on February 16, 2016, 01:22:34 pm
Watched Oklahoma Horizon on OETA this weekend. Always impressed with their even handed approach to Oklahoma issues. The more learned, experienced legislators are all over this shortage with analysis of the budget problems and insightful solutions. Then there are the idealogues that merely pass off the shortage as growing pains in our process of weening ourselves from high taxation and Federal intervention. And of course they prevail.

It was pointed out that the legislature is aware of Kansas' problems but note that they merely weened themselves too quickly. Oklahoma on the other hand intent on spreading the pain out over a ten year period. So, there ain't no learning going on. Its slow motion bankruptcy.

Of note is this sobering fact. About 40% of Oklahoma's budget is dependent on matching funds from Federal programs. They intend to let those funds go to other states so we can be....self sustaining. So, our federal taxes are helping other states but we have the moral high ground. The view isn't so good from the moral high ground.



So basically, they figure Oklahoma should be a 100% donor state.  Got it.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Hoss on February 16, 2016, 02:46:21 pm
So basically, they figure Oklahoma should be a 100% donor state.  Got it.



Isn't that really wealth redistribution?  And by proxy communism?

 :o


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 16, 2016, 03:32:21 pm
Isn't that really wealth redistribution?  And by proxy communism?

 :o

Da! And dis is your new government home.


(http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/147657/81b15es.jpg)

See? Everybody same now commrade.  ;)


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on February 16, 2016, 03:50:02 pm
Isn't that really wealth redistribution?  And by proxy communism?

 :o

You have to remember, most of the legislators were educated in, well, Oklahoma shcools.  Need I say more?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 16, 2016, 03:56:15 pm
You have to remember, most of the legislators were educated in, well, Oklahoma shcools.  Need I say more?


Or worse yet - home schooled.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on February 16, 2016, 04:16:05 pm

Or worse yet - home schooled.



They couldn’t have all been schooled at Sally Kern’s house.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on February 16, 2016, 04:57:37 pm
They couldn’t have all been schooled at Sally Kern’s house.

Interesting fact. Sally's husband, Steve Kern is not just a pastor at a large Baptist church in OKC but is also a PROFESSOR at Hillsdale Freewill Baptist College in Moore.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 16, 2016, 05:12:00 pm
Ideologically, Oklahoma has made it very clear that we oppose abortion. I doubt there is anyone in the nation, let alone in the Great State of Oklahoma, who does not understand this.  The point has been made, the horse that made the point died, we then beat that horse for a decade, and now we are riding that pulp off into the sunset. Lets all just agree: abortion is not a desired outcome and it is in our interest to try and reduce the abortion rate.

Before we get to that sunset, there is a fork in the road.

One direction continues on the direction we have been going for fifty years. It is subject to much contentious litigation which it loses more often than not, at great expense. Statistically, it has little or no impact on "unwanted" pregnancies and little impact on the abortion rate. But it allows legislatures to pander to constituents.

The other fork leads down a path that actually addresses the underlining problem. It has been shown to reduce "unwanted" pregnancies (including the teen birth rate) and significantly reduce the abortion rate. It correlates extremely well with increased health initiative in many ancillary areas and reduces dependency on medicaid and other social welfare programs. In other words, it actually addresses the problem, has the desired result, and saves the state money. But it involves instituting science based curriculum and actually address sexual health with people who are statistically likely to be having sex (there are no gays in Iran, and teenagers in Oklahoma don't have sex).

There is a third option: to put on some rubber boats, stand in the pulp of the dead horse and pretend that we are riding off towards the sunset while we do nothing. And option #3 might actually be more productive than the option we will probably go with. Commence wasting money and obtaining no results.  (please note, I am not trying to take any moral stand whatsoever on abortion, merely that there are proven methods that have been shown to reach our desired goal of reducing the abortion rate and cutting back on "welfare moms." Both goals I agree with.)
- - -


Re the budget hole:  
A) Oklahoma is a poor state. We have always been a poor state.  In 2014, the peak of the oil boom, Oklahoma was #41 for median household income (only a 17% poverty rate!). In 2000, before the boom started, we were 47th. Now, given that most of the states we passed are not oil producing states (Tennessee, Alabama, KY, etc.) - do you think we are likely to move out of the bottom 10 or slump back down?  My money is we slump back down to the bottom 5. We are a poor state, getting poorer.

B) Nationally, the best correlation to earnings is education (http://gizmodo.com/americas-educational-achievement-mapped-1486344148). There are notable exceptions for people who find an opportunity, work hard, and see it through - but by far the best statistical method to increase earnings is to increase education.  (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm)

C) There is also a painfully clear correlation between taxes and governmental revenue. When taxes go up, revenue goes up. And vica versa. All subject to the unknown diminishing returns of the Laffer curve.   Study (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/69xx/doc6908/12-01-10PercentTaxCut.pdf) after study (http://www.businessinsider.com/study-tax-cuts-dont-lead-to-growth-2012-9) and various analysis  (http://www.factandmyth.com/taxes/tax-decreases-do-not-increase-revenue), as well as quick and basic math - bear this out.  If we cut tax revenue by 10%, we need the economy to grow by more than 11% to recoup the same tax revenue we lost. And that simply doesn't happen (we recoup less than 1/3rd of the lost revenue). If we want to cut taxes for other reasons, FINE... but don't pretend you are growing the economy.

D) It is also clear that inefficient government and/or too much tax revenue is not the issue. With a solid republican majority in the house, senate, and governors mansion we have carefully set budget priorities. Yet we remain with failing infrastructure, school funding near the bottom of the barrel,  and a massive and growing budget gap. So either our Republican leadership is grafting all the funds, spending it unwisely, or there 'taint enough money.

E) Finally, Oklahoma suffers from an image problem that appears to be costing us economically: we struggle to maintain or attract high quality jobs. Our primary economic selling points are:
- "have oil in the ground;"
- "our citizens are wiling to work with bare minimum rights and for low wages;" and
- "we will pay you to come here either with direct kickbacks, or deferring taxes such that someone else will pay your way."  


Our solutions from our benevolent legislative overlords are:

A) We may be a poor state, but we don't need that money from the hippies in Oregon, California, New York, Maryland and Connecticut. Keep your federal dollars!

B) Educated people may statically make more money, live longer, happier and healthier lives, and cause less societal issues (require less welfare, commit less crimes, etc.) - but we don't need no education. In fact, we can continue to cut education and save them dollars for the casino. Chaaaa Ching!

C) Sure, economics might easily show that lowering taxes will not increase revenue. But we reject your reality and substitute our own. We're rich suckers! More tax cuts all around!

D) "We are out of money because government sucks and everyone who has been running it is corrupt and incompetent. Now reelect me or my anointed successor, Scott Pruitt . What we need is more of the same." (note, i don't care what letter is next to your name. Its funny when your policies have failed and you call them failures, and then insist on doubling down. See, e.g. on the other side, Clinton on the "don't inhale" war on drugs)

E) Image problem schmimage problem. Other than Dollar Thrifty, Citgo, and Hilti - try to name a single fortune 500 company that has moved their HQ away from Tulsa in the last 30 20 10 6 years! Plus, we've added a thousand minimum wage Macy's jobs, the Direct TV call center, and another thousand jobs at Tulsa Hills. We don't have no stinking image problem! We are a pro sports state! What we need is more legislation that is derided by the people in the educated states that are hoarding all the good jobs. That'll do it!


So as you can see, we don't really have any problems.
- - -


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 16, 2016, 05:54:01 pm
Anyone who is surprised by the direction our political leaders are trying to take education just hasn't been pay attention. IT IS THE OKLAHOMA GOP PLATFORM. Here it is. (http://okgop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2015_OKGOP_Platform.pdf) Killing off public education is all but a stated goal. It reads closer to a church statement of beliefs, but without the love and forgiveness.  Ironically, this is a lesson we did NOT learn from Kansas when they repeatedly get beat down on the introducing religion via education lesson.

Quick, where is this quote from:
Quote
Our Great Fathers based our Constitution, Jihad for Independence, rights of men, and laws on the Koran and on traditional Sharia Law, as well as Muslim ethics and values. We believe these documents are the basis for law, order, and behavior of all but the infidel.


Actually, I barely changed the real quote from the OK GOP Platform:
Quote
Our Founding Fathers based our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and laws on the Bible and on traditional Judeo-Christian ethics and values. We believe these documents are the basis for law, order, and behavior.
Can you imagine the outrage at the first sentence?

It goes on and on about advocating the exact thing we all pretend to be surprised by: the "homosexual agenda," making "sodomy" illegal, drug testing welfare recipients, religious freedom to discriminate laws...everything that the media has made fun of and the Facebook Memes have mocked is right there in the platform. Including all of Sally Kern's hate. She isn't an outlier, it's the platform.

Anyway... back on education. Here is what they have to say about education, and I am not using mock quotes:

Quote
II. EDUCATION

Preamble:

We acknowledge our dependence upon Almighty God and ask His blessings upon our students and their parents, teachers, and nation.

That's the first sentence in education. Starting off strong by invoking God in the first sentence on educational curriculum more than the founding fathers did in the entire Constitution...

Quote
It is the right and responsibility of parents (hereafter to mean parents and/or legal guardians) to direct their children’s upbringing and education whether public, private, charter, or home school without interference, regulation, or penalty from the government. The primary goal of public schools should be to teach proficiency in the basic subjects of phonics-based reading, written and oral communication, mathematics, sciences, history, founding documents, Godly heritage of our nation, critical thinking skills, basic morals, and civics. Locally elected school boards should have the authority to determine and implement all public school curricula, policies, and procedures for their districts. We demand excellence and accountability from all tax-funded institutions of education in Oklahoma. The federal government has no constitutional role in education; furthermore, we support the creation of a free-market education system, including the use of vouchers and/or tax credits. We believe Oklahoma students are among the best and brightest and deserve a quality education.

If that isn't clear enough of an intention statement, lets clarify...

Quote
1. The traditional family unit, consisting of a (husband) man, (wife) woman, and child(ren) is the foundation of our social structure. The Oklahoma Department of Education and the various Boards of
Regents should uphold and teach this definition of traditional family at all levels of public and higher education.

Quote
8. The Ten Commandments should never be barred from view in public schools as a means of moral guidance along with our national motto "In God We Trust" and the Bill of Rights. Public  schools shall not prohibit the teaching of the Judeo-Christian worldview upon which our country was founded.

Quote
B. Curriculum
1. The heritage of the United States of America should be taught in public schools and include representative government, limited government, the lives and beliefs of the Founders, influence of the
Bible and religion on our laws and principles, and the concept of free enterprise.

Do you think they really want Thomas Jefferson's views on religion taught? Let alone Franklin's?

Quote
2. Where evolution is taught, intelligent design and competing origin theories must be taught as well.

No, that's not how science class works. "Physicists, astronomers, and geologists might be right - but it is also possible that the Flying Spaghetti Monster touched us all with His Noodly Appendage and the world became his meatball (http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/)." Please don't teach my kid that. He's messed up enough as it is. If I want to teach him my religious perspective on how the world was born, I will. Also, pesky matter of the US Constitution forbidding this type of thing for the last couple of generations.

It gets so bad I just have to paste the whole thing:

Quote
3. Local school boards should exercise their right to choose curriculum and textbooks, including the Bible as a literature or history text, without state limitations.
4. Parents must maintain the right and responsibility to educate their children regarding sexuality and sexual conduct. Neither classroom instruction nor school-based health services shall usurp parental
rights to educate their children.
5. We oppose the portrayal of homosexual or promiscuous behavior in a positive light in public schools.
6. Multiculturalism that promotes cultural segregation should not be taught. We respect different cultures and support teaching our commonalities as U. S. citizens.

Not a "historical text," which I would support so long as they are reading a variety of world religious texts (wait, is that multiculturalism?). But they want to use it as a history text. Catholics do not believe the Bible is a literal history lesson, Catholicism is not a fundamentalist religion while some other Christian sects are. Which is one problem trying to have the government teach religion.

- - - - -

I am a fan of private education and I am a fan of religious education. I want to Catholic schools and received a top notch education.  My son went to a Catholic school and they did a great job. But I chose, and my parents before me chose to send the kids to a religious school. And those schools met Federal and State standards for education, in addition to teaching us religious beliefs.  Hijacking the government to teach your religious beliefs to everyone is what they do in Muslim countries in which we claim to hate their religious intolerance.  If you want to have your kid receive a religious education or some other form of education, then pay for it like I am.

Calling for the teaching of your beliefs by the government and doing it in the name of freedom is called hypocrisy. My religious leaders and I will teach my child what I choose to teach him regarding religion, not you. In exchange, I will stand up and insist the government doesn't try to dictate what your religious leaders teach your kids in your place of worship.  If we do it any other way, then the "majority religion" rules and forces their edicts on you - which is why some Pilgrims left England 400 years ago.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on February 16, 2016, 07:42:40 pm
- which is why some Pilgrims left England 400 years ago.

I just re-named my beloved Bronco “Mayflower”.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on February 16, 2016, 08:07:53 pm
I think Cannon has crushed all the grooves now.

Excellent work.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 16, 2016, 09:06:32 pm
Post of the year CF! Very well done!


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: rebound on February 17, 2016, 08:42:14 am
Piling on with the kudos, but that was solid.   Nice post.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on February 17, 2016, 11:34:06 am
The GOP platform. I always wondered what they were up to. Thank you for the link. okgop.com.

It ought to be relabeled okevangelicalbabble.com or "Why the republican party hates itself".

Twenty-five pages of evangelical cable babble a few of which are devoted to state's rights.

Honestly, it looks more like a declaration of war against anyone different.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2016, 11:44:22 am
Interesting fact. Sally's husband, Steve Kern is not just a pastor at a large Baptist church in OKC but is also a PROFESSOR at Hillsdale Freewill Baptist College in Moore.


Have driven by there many times and wondered about that place....now I know.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on February 17, 2016, 11:49:07 am
To be fair and balanced....perhaps we should compare and contrast the Democratic platform. If they have one. Might not be allowed in Oklahoma!

This is the closest I can find on a quick search. http://www.okdemocrats.org/mission-bylaws/

Sounds pretty reasonable and thoughtful in comparison.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2016, 11:55:00 am
Exceptional...as so many of your posts are!


I am gonna blatantly quote and use excerpts.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2016, 12:03:15 pm
As State Finances Stumble, Oil and Gas Leaders Rally to End Tax Credits For Wind

https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2016/03/17/as-state-finances-stumble-oil-and-gas-leaders-rally-to-end-tax-credits-for-wind/ (https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2016/03/17/as-state-finances-stumble-oil-and-gas-leaders-rally-to-end-tax-credits-for-wind/)

Yeah...that's the industry to go after.  Go get'em Oklahoma!


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 22, 2016, 08:36:00 am
Kansas is trying to move in on our turf - of being the most ignorantly governed state in the Union.....they may be getting there.  What will Oklahoma do next to take the title back...???


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xliMwipXoiA



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: patric on March 22, 2016, 09:34:23 am
Kansas is trying to move in on our turf - of being the most ignorantly governed state in the Union.....they may be getting there.  What will Oklahoma do next to take the title back...???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xliMwipXoiA


Recognized Justin Wilfon at 4:42.  Sorry, drift.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on March 31, 2016, 07:09:02 am
Unprofitable Wells Now a Big Tax Break

http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/03/30/unprofitable-wells-now-a-big-tax-break/ (http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/03/30/unprofitable-wells-now-a-big-tax-break/)

Quote
It's become one of the state’s biggest tax breaks almost overnight.

The Oklahoma Tax Commission estimates the state will pay out $158 million in rebates next year to operators of “economically at-risk” wells that are no longer profitable at current oil and gas prices.

Two years ago, before prices plunged, those rebates totaled just $11 million.

The intent of the tax breaks is to cushion the blow of low prices on well operators and extend production from wells that otherwise might be shut down, either temporarily or permanently.

According to state officials and oil industry advocates, scores of well operators across the state are expected to take advantage of the at-risk rebate. In many cases the state will wind up refunding most of the gross production taxes that operators paid during the previous year, officials said.

A bill introduced this year would have suspended the break for two years to reduce the state budget squeeze, but it failed to advance past a legislative deadline. Still, industry officials say the issue might be raised again before the session ends.

Bristow oilman Don Darragh, who operates a handful of aging “stripper,” or marginally producing, wells in Okmulgee County, said shutdowns already are occurring. He said he had halted production of two wells because of low prices and cut production on others to two days per week. Strippers are wells that produce 10 or fewer barrels of oil per day.

On March 26, the pumpjack went out on Darragh’s best well, the Lyons No. 4. Darragh said the repairs would cost about $1,000. But he said he probably would wait for prices to improve before doing the work.

“Right now, with the price like it is, I’m not in a big hurry to go fix it,” he said.

Darragh said he has never applied for the state’s at-risk tax rebate but plans to have his accountant determine whether he would qualify this year.

During the current fiscal year, the at-risk rebate reduced the amount of money available to finance state government by an estimated $41 million. The cost is expected to nearly quadruple to $158 million next year, contributing to the state’s $1.3 billion budget shortfall. The expected rebates already have been incorporated into official revenue estimates presented to lawmakers.

“This is by far the biggest impact that the price of oil has had,” said Tax Commission Executive Director Tony Mastin. “Because of the price decline we’re getting less gross revenue, and also because of the price decline this rebate has come into effect. So it’s kind of a double hit.”

Created in 2005, the at-risk tax rebate has exploded in cost because of the decline in oil and gas prices since late 2014.

Two years ago, Oklahoma crude oil was selling at the wellhead for about $100 a barrel and natural gas between $3 and $5 per thousand cubic feet (MCF). This year, oil prices have fallen below $40 a barrel and gas typically sells for less than $2 per MCF.

Under Oklahoma’s complicated severance tax rules, traditional vertical wells are taxed at 7 percent. Horizontal wells drilled before July 1, 2015, are taxed at 1 percent for four years and 7 percent thereafter. Under a new rate formula enacted two years ago, all wells drilled after July 1, 2015, are taxed at 2 percent for three years, then jump to 7 percent after that.

The economically at-risk rebate refunds 6/7ths of oil and gas production taxes collected on any 7-percent well that generates less revenue in a year than the combined cost of royalty payouts, operating costs, overhead expenses and production taxes. In effect, it reduces the tax rate from 7 percent to 1 percent, retroactively.

To qualify for the rebate, operators must file an application on a lease-by-lease basis.

About half of the state’s crude oil production now comes from horizontal wells drilled before mid-2015 and taxed at 1 percent. But about 40 percent of production still comes from older vertical wells taxed at 7 percent.

“There are wells in Oklahoma that are 100 years old that are still producing crude oil,” said Cody Bannister, vice president of the 2,500-member Oklahoma Independent Petroleum Association.

“The majority of Oklahoma’s oil and natural gas producers are small mom-and-pop companies,” Bannister said. “They don’t drill a lot of wells. They manage some historic properties. Those are the people that this helps most of all.”

Bannister said his group was prepared to make the case to Oklahoma lawmakers that the at-risk rebate is doing what it was designed to do: keep stripper wells operating during a period of low prices.

The proposed two-year suspension of the rebate was included in a bill introduced by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Mike Mazzei, R-Tulsa. Even though it failed to advance, oil industry advocates said the idea might be revived in final budget negotiations.

“When you’re in a $1.3 billion budget shortfall, anything and everything’s going to be on the table,” said Chad Warmington, president of the Oklahoma Oil and Gas Association. “So yeah, we’re keeping an eye on it.”

Bristow well operator Darragh said the economics of stripper well production sometimes boil down to a few dollars per day.

Darragh’s old wells typically produce about one barrel of oil per day, he said. The Sunoco refinery in Tulsa is currently paying about $34 a barrel. The 7-percent gross production tax takes about $2.40 of that, and his payment to royalty owners is about $6.40 per barrel. Darragh pays his pumper a fixed rate of $5 per well per day. His liability insurance costs about $1.70 a day per well, and the electricity used to run his pump jack about $4 per day.

Those fixed costs don’t leave much to cover maintenance and repairs and provide much of a profit he said.

“I produce cheaper than anybody. Nobody can come close to me. But I’d like to have $50 or $60 oil,” Darragh said.

“Probably at $45, I’ll put a new pump in.”


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: AquaMan on March 31, 2016, 08:34:40 am
We don't believe in the capitalist system here in Oklahoma. You know, that thing where you risk your capital in hopes of making money but if you don't, you take a tax deduction, lick your wounds, regroup and try again. Now, the state has your back and the risk is mitigated with taxpayer money. For the good of all us you know. Really.

Just like when the state can't make its budget and the poor and the schools have their back.
.
Let us all now chant, "Damn Obama. Damn Hillary. Damn Liberals. Damn Socialists. Damn Feds".


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Conan71 on March 31, 2016, 09:11:35 am
I wonder how many of these producers were critical of ethanol subsidies?  This is far worse than crop subsidies.  Cap the damn things off if they aren’t profitable.  It’s not like shelling out all these rebates are going to bring lost oil patch jobs back overnight.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: swake on March 31, 2016, 09:15:02 am
I wonder how many of these producers were critical of ethanol subsidies?  This is far worse than crop subsidies.  Cap the damn things off if they aren’t profitable.  It’s not like shelling out all these rebates are going to bring lost oil patch jobs back overnight.


Oklahoma is a kleptocracy run by the oil industry.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 31, 2016, 09:59:12 am
This is great...

We can't get rid of oligarchical alcohol laws because it supports jobs.

We give wage rebates to billionaires to pay millionaires to bounce balls in Oklahoma City because jobs.

Big box stores get cheap land, TIFs, and few zoning restrictions because jobs.

Employers whose average wage will qualify for medicaid and other state subsidies gets tens of millions in tax breaks and kickbacks because jobs.

And we pay oil and gas companies who gambled on risky wells and lost, because jobs. Its almost like the system is set up so the winners win more, no matter what. If the market booms, they get lower oil and gas taxes, low corporate taxes, low wages, low workers comp, low regulation, and wrack in the profits. If the market tanks, we pay them to help cover their losses.

I'd love to see an analysis of the net tax from an average oil well in Oklahoma. Deduct the drilling expenses, rebates, and kickbacks. Then draw down the production tax - while offsetting the depreciation. Then back off the rebates when the well becomes unprofitable. Then the deductions when the well is shut down. Then deduct the cost of regulation and services provided to the producer. I'm not saying the State loses in net, but with our structure it certainly is the windfall people would think.


But we hate socialism and we don't need your damn Obamacare money, even if it means the health of our citizens and jobs. Because socialism.

Also, if my business loses money, can the state pay me? Please.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 31, 2016, 10:07:29 am
This is great...


Its almost like the system is set up so the winners win more, no matter what.




Not "almost like".  It IS exactly.


You can get your losses back by purchasing your own legislators.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Ed W on April 01, 2016, 03:05:54 pm
Now Kansas legislators want to impeach state supreme court justices because they ruled education cuts were illegal under the constitution. They were but that's not important to those law makers with Rs after their names.

Anyone wanna bet these are the same people who want to return us to constitutional government...except when they don't?


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 04, 2016, 07:18:03 am
Now Kansas legislators want to impeach state supreme court justices because they ruled education cuts were illegal under the constitution. They were but that's not important to those law makers with Rs after their names.

Anyone wanna bet these are the same people who want to return us to constitutional government...except when they don't?

Unfortunately, destroying an independent judiciary is a go-to model for the hard right.

When the Iowa Supreme Court concluded that the Iowa Constitution didn't allow a ban on gay marriage after applying the test for equality that had been spelled out - the right wing set out to oust them. For the first time in history, there was mass turnover on the Iowa Supreme Court. Unfortunately for the right wingers, the new Court affirmed the decision because THEY JUST APPLIED THE LAW.

Who is moving to remove the independence of the Court in Oklahoma and take us back to a system that was destroyed because it was the most corrupt in the nation?

Who wants to control Justices in Kansas?

If what you want to do is unconstitutional and you don't think you change the constitution, you need to eliminate the power of the Judicial branch. When the New Deal was pushing things far left, the same was done to force left wing politics. Just so happens the right is the one pushing that agenda at the moment.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 04, 2016, 07:55:43 am


If what you want to do is unconstitutional and you don't think you change the constitution, you need to eliminate the power of the Judicial branch. When the New Deal was pushing things far left, the same was done to force left wing politics. Just so happens the right is the one pushing that agenda at the moment.



Huh....just shows how wildly distorted our political system has become - and how radically right wing it is.  New Deal was not far left - unless compared to the RWRE Murdochian/Koch agenda.  It was an excellent example of the symbiosis that should exist between government and the people - ALL the people, not just the 1% who have hijacked the agenda and the actual social fabric.  (See Trump/Cruz poll numbers...)

If one were to be a Christian in this country - this would be exactly the type service...social security....that the Man these people profess to follow would approve of.  And it's not welfare, it isn't giving anyone something for free, which the RWRE is trying to paint it - shame on them!   It's an annuity that I and everyone else have paid for.  The 1% agenda has trashed the whole concept of pension in the last 35 years, and now they are working to kill this last one so they can get their hands on that money, too.



"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."  -Mathew 25:40.

But the RWRE wouldn't know about that, since the only part of the Bible they read is the Old Testament...



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on May 03, 2016, 11:45:39 am
Tulsa Cuts 142 Teachers

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/tulsa-cuts-142-teachers (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/tulsa-cuts-142-teachers)

Quote
The Tulsa School Board votes to trim 142 teaching positions from the district. The board took the vote last night. Superintendent Doctor Deborah Gist says the district is making the best out of a bad situation.

The cuts are brought on by state budget cuts. Trimming the teachers and some support personnel will save the TPS about $8 million.

Most of the teaching jobs are already vacant. The district will attempt to cut the rest by attrition. The action will push up class sizes in all district schools.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on May 27, 2016, 07:21:09 am
Oh, Oklahoma - What happens when voters distrust their politicians so much that they bind their hands

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699450-what-happens-when-voters-distrust-their-politicians-so-much-they-bind-their-hands-oh (http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699450-what-happens-when-voters-distrust-their-politicians-so-much-they-bind-their-hands-oh)

Quote
SOME weeks ago Oklahoma’s teacher of the year for 2016, Shawn Sheehan, dined in Washington, DC, with counterparts from California and Washington state. The mood was jolly until the high-flyers, all finalists for national teacher of the year, compared salaries. When Mr Sheehan—a young teacher of mathematics and special education—revealed his pay, his table-mates “sort of went silent”. For in state rankings of teachers’ pay Oklahoma comes 48th. Washington’s teacher of the year has since been urging Mr Sheehan to move to the West Coast. “He’s been sending me house listings,” he says, ruefully.

Oklahomans dislike such stories. They are sternly conservative: God-fearing, tornado-lashed prairie folk, so proud of their mineral wealth that an oil well stands next to the State Capitol, where feebler types might plant flowers. They scorn big government—the state is in the bottom third for tax revenue per person. But Oklahomans care about their public schools, which educate the vast majority of their kids, and which (notably via sport) are social anchors for many towns. So they wince when good teachers are lured elsewhere. Even now, as slumping oil and gas prices have been followed by a deep budget crisis, the Republican governor, Mary Fallin, says she wants to give teachers a raise, an ambition echoed by legislators from both parties. A poll last year found 98% of Oklahomans back higher classroom pay, dividing only over whether to raise salaries across-the-board, or on merit.

That consensus makes raising teachers’ pay a good test of basic governance. Alas, legislators negotiating a new budget have spent May failing it. Democrats blocked a scheme involving higher cigarette taxes, because they wanted some of the revenues for health care. Republicans introduced and withdrew a proposal to increase teachers’ pay while cutting their other benefits. Worse, with days left to fill a $1.3 billion hole in the budget, Republicans devoted long hours to further loosening gun laws, to arguing about transgender pupils in school bathrooms and to passing a law that sought to make performing almost all abortions a felony. That attempt to criminalise abortion was certain to be struck down as unconstitutional in the courts. Governor Fallin vetoed the law, calling it ambiguously worded. The only doctor in the state senate, a Republican who personally opposes abortion, was crisper in his diagnosis, calling the proposal “insane”.

Budget negotiations ended without a pay rise for teachers (and indeed resulted in a 16% cut to higher education), so the matter is now in the hands of voters. A bipartisan group wants to ask them to increase education funding by adding a penny in the dollar to state sales taxes in November. Their ballot measure, State Question 779, is backed by a former Democratic governor, David Boren, and a group of business bosses and former members of Ms Fallin’s cabinet. It aims to raise $615m, enough for a $5,000 increase per teacher. Even supporters admit that sales taxes are a clumsy way to raise money, because the poor spend a larger share of their incomes on day-to-day shopping. Mr Boren, an old-fashioned centrist who is now president of the University of Oklahoma, calls sales taxes “regressive” and would have been “thrilled” if lawmakers had acted. Mr Sheehan, another backer of the initiative, worries about the impact on low-income families, though he argues that schools are often their best ladder out of poverty. The ballot initiative amounts to voters telling legislators: “you guys are not doing your job,” says the teacher, who is running as an independent for the state senate in November.

Mr Boren sees a problem of political culture. For 25 years both Democrats and Republicans have won elections in Oklahoma by promising tax cuts. In the 1990s voters amended the state constitution so the legislature can only increase taxes if super-majorities of three-in-four members agree, or if voters say yes in a referendum. After living through three boom-and-bust commodities cycles, the 75-year-old ex-governor fretted as he saw Republicans cut state income taxes twice, against a backdrop of surging oil production and revenues. “Oklahomans got sold on a free lunch,” says Mr Boren. Businesses wanted a free lunch too, he adds: demanding tax breaks and subsidies, while still expecting a well-trained workforce. Republicans do not wholly disagree. Senator Rob Standridge represents the district that Mr Sheehan is contesting, near Oklahoma City. Though Mr Standridge defends low tax rates, he laments that states get into bidding wars to woo employers: “We spend way too much on incentives.”

Bound and gagged

The campaign behind the ballot initiative polled voters to ask if they would tolerate higher income, property or sales taxes to invest in education. Income taxes divided voters along partisan lines, with Republicans rejecting rises. As for property taxes, Oklahomans like them low—Mr Boren links this to their history as land-rich, cash-poor homesteaders. Most backed higher sales taxes. People tell Mr Boren that they like sales tax because “everybody pays it,” unlike fiddlier taxes that the rich can dodge.

The Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs, a smaller-government group that tried to block the measure in court, says Oklahoma cities could end up with some of the country’s highest sales taxes. It points to polls showing an option that Oklahomans like better: paying teachers by cutting tax credits for wind and renewable energies, and other corporate subsidies. But that risks clashes between special interests: scrapping tax breaks for wind energy is a priority for Oklahoma’s mighty oil and gas industry.

A narrow question of public policy—how to stop Texas and other neighbours pinching Oklahoma teachers—has exposed broad, not very cheering truths about democracy. Elected politicians have prospered by urging voters to distrust them. Voters duly bound legislators’ hands to limit government mischief. Now Oklahoma is struggling to deliver a policy with near-universal support. Hope that someone learns a lesson from all this.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 06, 2016, 09:54:43 am
Oh, Oklahoma - What happens when voters distrust their politicians so much that they bind their hands

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699450-what-happens-when-voters-distrust-their-politicians-so-much-they-bind-their-hands-oh (http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21699450-what-happens-when-voters-distrust-their-politicians-so-much-they-bind-their-hands-oh)




Disgusting situation.  We are spiraling in, out of control, and Failin' and the Clown Show keep fiddlin' while Rome burns.....



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on June 08, 2016, 12:03:02 pm
Oklahoma Schools Chief Laments Elimination of Textbook Funds

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-schools-chief-laments-elimination-textbook-funds (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-schools-chief-laments-elimination-textbook-funds)

Quote
The Oklahoma State Department of Education says it's recommending that schools not buy any new textbooks this year because of a lack of state funding.

The department said Wednesday that lawmakers did not appropriate any money for new textbooks for the fiscal year that begins July 1. State Superintendent Joy Hofmeister says students will be forced to use "outdated and tattered school books held together by duct tape."

Last fiscal year, the department received $33 million for textbooks.

Hofmeister says the department is recommending a one-year delay of textbook selection. The 13-member State Textbook Committee is expected to consider the recommendation at a special meeting later this month.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: Townsend on June 21, 2016, 11:22:29 am
Govenor To Meet With Rating Agencies

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/govenor-meet-rating-agencies (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/govenor-meet-rating-agencies)

Quote
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin is traveling to New York this week to visit with some of the nation's top credit rating agencies, and she's taking top state lawmakers with her.

Fallin spoke to reporters Monday following a meeting of the State Board of Equalization. She said she plans to leave Tuesday for a New York trip with Oklahoma Treasurer Ken Miller, her Secretary of Finance Preston Doerflinger, House Speaker-designate Charles McCall, and Oklahoma City Sen. Greg Treat, who is vice-chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee.

Fallin says she wants to include legislators on the visits to ensure they understand the nuances rating agencies consider when analyzing Oklahoma's budget practices.

Moody's Investors Service last week gave Oklahoma negative marks for drawing down reserves and cutting funding to higher education.

So...good for her for telling folks that's why she's going...I assume she's using this as a chance to try to get in front of Trump's folks.

It's difficult to deal with the fact that Mary Fallin is the person who has to hold Oklahoma Legislators' hands and show them what they are doing to Oklahoma is hurting people.


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 21, 2016, 11:42:32 am
Govenor To Meet With Rating Agencies

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/govenor-meet-rating-agencies (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/govenor-meet-rating-agencies)

So...good for her for telling folks that's why she's going...I assume she's using this as a chance to try to get in front of Trump's folks.

It's difficult to deal with the fact that Mary Fallin is the person who has to hold Oklahoma Legislators' hands and show them what they are doing to Oklahoma is hurting people.


She has been holding their hands - like the 5 year old's they are - and dragging them along every step of the way like a Mommy drags her kid through a store.



Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 21, 2016, 11:53:38 am
According to his travel itinerary, Trump is in NY until Thursday (when he leaves to open a golf course in Scotland).


Title: Re: Can Oklahoma learn from Kansas
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 21, 2016, 11:57:39 am
According to his travel itinerary, Trump is in NY until Thursday (when he leaves to open a golf course in Scotland).


Maybe we will luck out and she will resign as Governor to chase VP!!   It could happen....  Sarah did, sort of.