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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: Tulsasaurus Rex on May 20, 2015, 10:06:30 am



Title: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on May 20, 2015, 10:06:30 am
Quote
Seven years ago, when Tulsa dedicated the Cyrus Avery Plaza on old Route 66, the plan was to build a state-of-the-art museum nearby, creating a major tourist attraction at the point where the Mother Road crosses the Arkansas River.

When? “Eventually,” officials said, and left it at that.

Until now.

Tulsa will announce definite plans Wednesday to build a $19.5 million Route 66 Experience, aspiring to become one of the most popular destinations along the iconic highway.

If all goes well, a year of fundraising will lead to a ground-breaking next summer, with the museum opening in 2018, officials told the Tulsa World.

Planning actually did start in 2008, when the Cyrus Avery Plaza opened on the east side of the historic 11th Street bridge, where the “Father of Route 66” brought the highway through Tulsa to take advantage of the existing river crossing.

A feasibility study, commissioned by the city of Tulsa in 2011, estimated that the museum would attract more than 40,000 visitors a year. But little noticeable progress was made until last fall, when the Route 66 Alliance lured Ken Busby away from the Tulsa Arts and Humanities Council.

An experienced fundraiser who led the effort to build downtown’s $18 million AHHA arts center, Busby has been quietly working behind the scenes since October to build support for the Route 66 project.

“This will be almost like a visitors center for Tulsa,” said Busby, now director of the Route 66 Alliance. “People will stop for this, then we can send them to the ballet, to the opera, to the museums. The hotel industry talks about ‘heads in beds.’ We’re going to send them a lot of business.”

With 42,000 square feet, the museum will resemble a bridge, stretching across Riverside Drive with views of the river and the downtown skyline. Route 66 landmarks, from a giant Blue Whale near Catoosa to the “Cadillac Ranch” near Amarillo, aren’t exactly known for subtlety. So the new museum will use a bright red color scheme to compete for attention.

Inside, $4 million worth of interactive exhibits will tell the history of Route 66 and let tourists take a virtual drive from Chicago to Santa Monica.

“Tulsa is the only capital of Route 66, where east meets west,” Busby said. “We’re really the only city that could do something like this, and Tulsa is going to become known for it.”

The museum’s location, just minutes away from the BOK Center, will also help create the much talked-about link between downtown and the river, creating an anchor for further development along the waterfront, Busby said. The historic 11th Street bridge itself, however, has been closed for 25 years and is badly in need of repairs.

Completed in 1916, it was the first automobile bridge across the Arkansas River. If fixed up to serve as a pedestrian bridge, it could become an outdoor extension of the museum, perhaps hosting food trucks or a marketplace, Busby said.

When? “Eventually,” he said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/million-route-museum-for-tulsa-is-announced/article_fb8e3a26-9aa5-5f2a-a26c-7e0a4d590581.html

Hmm.. that much talked-about link between downtown and the river.  Will they walk down Southwest Blvd (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tulsa,+OK/@36.146078,-96.001694,3a,75y,205h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1st2ksyxB2KDRXy5Hc9vFM0w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b692b8ddd12e8f:0xe76910c81bd96af7)? Or maybe 12th Street (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tulsa,+OK/@36.145015,-96.000567,3a,75y,265h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZ5X_4TbLhwfjrNDHSxExWQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x87b692b8ddd12e8f:0xe76910c81bd96af7) is more pedestrian friendly?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: swake on May 20, 2015, 10:40:03 am
Very cool


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on May 20, 2015, 12:23:05 pm
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/2N0m2y1b0T1A223i2y0u/Screen%20Shot%202015-05-20%20at%201.22.15%20PM.png)


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: PonderInc on May 20, 2015, 02:08:25 pm
Too bad they didn't wait until the Oklahoma House was done voting on OKPOP before announcing this....

Word from OKC today is that many state legislators are now saying: "Well, if Tulsa can afford this new Rt 66 museum, why do they need state money for OKPOP?"

While I don't agree with this logic, it's certainly a concern.  I'll be bummed if this gets used as an excuse to screw Tulsa (again).


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: rdj on May 20, 2015, 02:21:24 pm
Too bad they didn't wait until the Oklahoma House was done voting on OKPOP before announcing this....

Word from OKC today is that many state legislators are now saying: "Well, if Tulsa can afford this new Rt 66 museum, why do they need state money for OKPOP?"

While I don't agree with this logic, it's certainly a concern.  I'll be bummed if this gets used as an excuse to screw Tulsa (again).

I thought the same thing.  Another example of groups in Tulsa having no real desire to coordinate things.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 20, 2015, 02:50:10 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/million-route-museum-for-tulsa-is-announced/article_fb8e3a26-9aa5-5f2a-a26c-7e0a4d590581.html

Hmm.. that much talked-about link between downtown and the river.  Will they walk down Southwest Blvd? Or maybe 12th Street is more pedestrian friendly?

Neither are that great being next to the highway or the hospital.  Making Houston Ave from 3rd to Riverside more pedestrian and bike-friendly is doable, as well as 6th St through the CBD which connects to 7th less than block east of Houston.  3rd and 6th being the main pedestrian streets connecting the rest of downtown to Houston and the river, also Denver.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: DolfanBob on May 20, 2015, 02:52:48 pm
Is that an outdoor big screen?  ???


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on May 20, 2015, 02:56:56 pm
Seems like a good use of that space. That has been an awkward ugly empty lot for a while.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Townsend on May 20, 2015, 03:33:24 pm
Too bad they didn't wait until the Oklahoma House was done voting on OKPOP before announcing this....

Word from OKC today is that many state legislators are now saying: "Well, if Tulsa can afford this new Rt 66 museum, why do they need state money for OKPOP?"

While I don't agree with this logic, it's certainly a concern.  I'll be bummed if this gets used as an excuse to screw Tulsa (again).

If true, that is a shame considering what has already been done/donated to complete OKPop.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on May 20, 2015, 07:28:23 pm
Too bad they didn't wait until the Oklahoma House was done voting on OKPOP before announcing this....

Word from OKC today is that many state legislators are now saying: "Well, if Tulsa can afford this new Rt 66 museum, why do they need state money for OKPOP?"

While I don't agree with this logic, it's certainly a concern.  I'll be bummed if this gets used as an excuse to screw Tulsa (again).

This announcement was already delayed for several weeks and was beholden to some other deals going on.

This project is only funded 25% so there is no justification to the idea we have money laying around. Even if someone tried, OKC is throwing around way more cash.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 20, 2015, 11:38:00 pm
This announcement was already delayed for several weeks and was beholden to some other deals going on.

This project is only funded 25% so there is no justification to the idea we have money laying around. Even if someone tried, OKC is throwing around way more cash.

OKPOP or the Route 66 Museum is only 25% funded?

They need to get rid of that parking lot. Put some underground parking, and add on street parking along Southwest Boulevard. There is already a ton of parking along Riverside that is almost never used. You could also put 12th St./11th St. on a road diet too and add on street parking.

Use that land for a flea market, farmers market, other retail, or a hotel, or apartments/condos. Use the proceeds and taxes produced from those developments to support the museum instead of wasting valuable land.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on May 21, 2015, 06:31:54 am
OKPOP or the Route 66 Museum is only 25% funded?

They need to get rid of that parking lot. Put some underground parking, and add on street parking along Southwest Boulevard. There is already a ton of parking along Riverside that is almost never used. You could also put 12th St./11th St. on a road diet too and add on street parking.

Use that land for a flea market, farmers market, other retail, or a hotel, or apartments/condos. Use the proceeds and taxes produced from those developments to support the museum instead of wasting valuable land.

RT 66 is only 25% funded.

There isn't enough parking on Riverside, just ask Sauerkraut.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: rdj on May 21, 2015, 09:18:07 am
It's a bit higher than 25% but not by much.  According to Busby (via a Facebook comment from his account) they have $6.5MM in public dollars set aside for the development which is a 1/3 of the cost.  Based on his track record with AHHA it'll be interesting to see how the fundraising on construction of this "attraction" plays out.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 21, 2015, 09:21:10 am
Is the white box adjacent to the red bridge part of the project or "future development"?  It's the same color as the existing townhomes on Lawton Ave.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: PonderInc on May 21, 2015, 10:12:42 am
They need to get rid of that parking lot. Put some underground parking, and add on street parking along Southwest Boulevard. There is already a ton of parking along Riverside that is almost never used. You could also put 12th St./11th St. on a road diet too and add on street parking.

Use that land for a flea market, farmers market, other retail, or a hotel, or apartments/condos. Use the proceeds and taxes produced from those developments to support the museum instead of wasting valuable land.

Totally agree. It's on a big ol hill so it would be easy to dig a parking garage under the museum with access from Riverside.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on May 21, 2015, 11:27:56 am
Is the white box adjacent to the red bridge part of the project or "future development"?  It's the same color as the existing townhomes on Lawton Ave.

Part of the project. This is basically a pencil sketch.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: patric on May 21, 2015, 09:06:53 pm
From the Whirled:

Senate Bill 839 by Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman, R-Sapulpa, failed 44-49 in the House of Representatives two days after narrowly passing in the Senate. To pass in the House, 51 votes would have been needed.

The measure would have provided $25 million in state-backed bonds to pay for the $40 million structure proposed for Archer Street and Boston Avenue.

The vote came hours after the Senate approved and sent to the governor a $25 million bond issue to finish the American Indian Cultural Center in Oklahoma City.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Townsend on May 22, 2015, 08:02:20 am
From the Whirled:

The vote came hours after the Senate approved and sent to the governor a $25 million bond issue to finish the American Indian Cultural Center in Oklahoma City.[/font]

That is certainly bothersome.  Where's that guy that always sues to get things like this reversed?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: DTowner on May 22, 2015, 08:35:14 am
Tulsa area lawmakers got played for suckers by OKC, yet again.  More money for the OKC museum and none for OKPOP was the absolute worst outcome possible.

Tulsa’s leaders now need to put the OKPOP money in the Vision package.  It sucks that Tulsans have to pay for this with no contribution from the state, but that is better than losing this opportunity.   When it is completed, some local “artist” should paint a mural on a west facing wall giving the middle finger to the state capitol.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Townsend on May 22, 2015, 11:48:39 am
Tulsa area lawmakers got played for suckers by OKC, yet again.  More money for the OKC museum and none for OKPOP was the absolute worst outcome possible.

Tulsa’s leaders now need to put the OKPOP money in the Vision package.  It sucks that Tulsans have to pay for this with no contribution from the state, but that is better than losing this opportunity.   When it is completed, some local “artist” should paint a mural on a west facing wall giving the middle finger to the state capitol.


Decision was reversed and the museum has jumped another hurdle.  Let's see what happens next.

As for the finger mural...William?  Got some spare time?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TheArtist on May 22, 2015, 10:27:25 pm
Decision was reversed and the museum has jumped another hurdle.  Let's see what happens next.

As for the finger mural...William?  Got some spare time?

For that I would make time lol.  But perhaps a billboard on the turnpike coming into Tulsa from OKC would be more fitting.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on May 28, 2015, 09:02:25 pm
Is the white box adjacent to the red bridge part of the project or "future development"?  It's the same color as the existing townhomes on Lawton Ave.

Inquired on this. It's a parking garage.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 29, 2015, 11:10:18 am
Inquired on this. It's a parking garage.

So there is a multi-story parking garage and surface lot?  Seems like they could get away with just the surface lot.  There is ample street parking on Riverside.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on May 29, 2015, 12:02:56 pm
So there is a multi-story parking garage and surface lot?  Seems like they could get away with just the surface lot.  There is ample street parking on Riverside.

No there isn't, just ask cabbage.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: DowntownDan on May 29, 2015, 01:59:35 pm
Would it be ironic to complain about too much parking and car-centric culture at a museum that is dedicated to one of the first highways that led to the car-centric culture of pretty much every city west of the Mississippi?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on August 21, 2015, 07:53:23 am
Quote from: KJRH
(http://media2.kjrh.com/photo/2015/08/13/crybabyhillidea_1439522719644_22710267_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
City council members approved a measure that could spruce up the area around Cry Baby Hill.

Many Tulsans mark their calendars for the next opportunity to wear themed outfits, clang their cowbells and cheer on cyclists as they take on one of Tulsa Tough’s most treacherous bike races, and soon it could look a little different.

Those attending the event could see some significant change in the area that would be designed to attract more tourists.

The plans that were approved Thursday want to add concrete seats, more trees and new walkways.
(http://media2.kjrh.com/photo/2015/08/13/Crybabyhillidea2_1439522719642_22710268_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)

http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tulsa-city-council-members-approve-plans-to-spruce-up-area-near-cry-baby-hill

This will complement the new Route 66 museum well.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on December 04, 2016, 02:55:33 pm
Are they still fundraising for the Route 66 Museum?  This would be a cool backdrop for Cry Baby Hill during Tulsa Tough.  

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/3a/23a2986b-fbda-585b-9cfd-abf0e4741259/555ba110c97c1.image.jpg?resize=300%2C194)

Also really wish someday the Avery Bridge could be rehabbed at least for pedestrian/bike use.  A Tulsa version of the High Line with some landscaping would be awesome it's such a cool old structure.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 05, 2016, 08:48:24 am
I looked into it, and I'm not sure.  There was some good press mid-summer when plans were unveiled with a $19.5mil price tag. The plan was for it to be built "eventually" per the article.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/million-route-museum-for-tulsa-is-announced/article_fb8e3a26-9aa5-5f2a-a26c-7e0a4d590581.html

This article says it will open in 2018 with a ground breaking in Summer of 2016 (this is also stated on the rt66exp.com website). In that the 2016 groundbreaking didn't happen, I'm guessing the 2018 opening is seriously in doubt:
http://www.route66news.com/2015/05/20/tulsa-route-66-museums-opening-finally-has-a-date/

The group behind it launched a new website in July, which drew some more attention and saw the plans reviewed by some RT66 buffs:
http://www.route66news.com/2016/07/06/route-66-experience-website-inside-look/

The group, headed by Ken Busby, is the Route 66 Alliance:
http://www.route66alliance.org/

They have a website for the museum, which is the RT66 Experience:
http://www.rt66exp.com/

But I don't see that either website has been updated since ~ August.  But the Facebook page for the Route 66 Alliance is still active, and December 1st was just declared Route 66 day in Tulsa:
(https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15202695_10209208500304445_7953223197935187511_n.jpg?oh=b6885863b5b74cd27ba7454d9c6f996e&oe=58F51D7A)

If you'd like to learn more, call Mr. Busby:

Ken Busby
Executive Director & CEO,
Route 66 Alliance
918-629-2984
culturalczarok@gmail.com








Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on March 20, 2018, 02:22:18 pm
What's the latest on this?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on March 26, 2018, 07:47:54 pm
What's the latest on this?

Still fundraising, still not quite there.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TeeDub on March 27, 2018, 08:59:22 am

They have a website for the museum, which is the RT66 Experience:
http://www.rt66exp.com/



They have an indiegogo crowd funding link on the website.   They are at 1% of their fundraising goal in the last year...   

https://www.generosity.com/community-fundraising/route-66-experience


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on March 27, 2018, 09:11:12 am

They have an indiegogo crowd funding link on the website.   They are at 1% of their fundraising goal in the last year...   

https://www.generosity.com/community-fundraising/route-66-experience


Says it's closed. May have been a cancelled idea.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on March 31, 2018, 02:58:33 pm
I like this museum idea better than OK Pop.  Maybe someday it will be revived.  Who owns the land here?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 02, 2018, 10:18:20 am
I believe it is City of Tulsa land:
http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php?account=R29725921104880&return=close



Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: sgrizzle on April 03, 2018, 03:28:50 pm
It is CoT land, and the RT66 Experience has (had) a contract on it.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Oil Capital on April 04, 2018, 08:55:12 am
How did the OKPop museum jump ahead of this one?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Dspike on April 04, 2018, 01:59:52 pm
Didn't OKPOP get $25M in state funds? Suspect the R66 Experience would be up and running if it had such a subsidy too.

http://kfor.com/2015/05/29/gov-fallin-signs-bill-funding-okpop-museum/


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Oil Capital on April 04, 2018, 02:42:52 pm
Didn't OKPOP get $25M in state funds? Suspect the R66 Experience would be up and running if it had such a subsidy too.

http://kfor.com/2015/05/29/gov-fallin-signs-bill-funding-okpop-museum/

Yes.  That's really my question.  This Route 66 Xperience has been in Tulsa's plans at least since the original Vision 2025 program.  It seems the OKPOP museum came out of nowhere more recently and snatched available funding.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: swake on April 04, 2018, 03:02:24 pm
Yes.  That's really my question.  This Route 66 Xperience has been in Tulsa's plans at least since the original Vision 2025 program.  It seems the OKPOP museum came out of nowhere more recently and snatched available funding.

The pop museum was proposed and backed by the State of Oklahoma Historical Society


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Vision 2025 on April 23, 2018, 09:31:37 am
Yes.  That's really my question.  This Route 66 Xperience has been in Tulsa's plans at least since the original Vision 2025 program.  It seems the OKPOP museum came out of nowhere more recently and snatched available funding.
The Route 66 Experience concept was developed as part of the Route 66 Master Plan which was funded by Vision 2025 in the early part of the program.  The initial concept proposed by the committee to the City Council was to expend the majority of the funds at that location to construct the visitors center as a way to draw in route travelers who otherwise by-pass Tulsa.  Oher than to purchase the site, create parking, construct the Ped. bridge and the Avery Bronze this approach didn't do over well with the Council and the project was shelved for a considerable time and other projects were brought forward to more spread the $ all along the Route. 

There were some dollars reserved for the project and the approach was developed to put it out as an RFP to design/build/operate the center.  There was (I believe) only one response and that local team was selected and began fundraising with some reported success but not to the levels required under the agreement which was extended and later modified and has as of last year run its course and is no longer in effect.  As of this writing, I am not aware of any current plans to proceed but I will inquire.   


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: shavethewhales on October 07, 2021, 02:30:42 pm
Posted on City of Tulsa's LinkedIn:

Quote
Route 66 Experience Request for Proposals Released

Monday, October 4, 2021, the City of Tulsa released a Request for Proposals (RFP) for the Route 66 Experience project.

The City invites qualified developers to respond to the RFP for a mixed-use development which will include a Route 66 Interpretive Center on a 2-acre site overlooking historic Route 66, the Tulsa skyline, and the Arkansas River corridor. The development goal is to create a vibrant destination with the appropriate mix of commercial amenities and a Route 66-themed interpretive center, which is complementary to the surrounding area.

The RFP is available on the City's website: https://lnkd.in/gdtJHeF6

Previous Vision 2025-funded capital projects have created the backdrop for increased visibility of Route 66 as a heritage tourism favorite for both area residents and national/international tourists. A Vision Tulsa matching neon sign grant program has generated more than 40 neon signs at various stages of completion, creating a retro look to the Route’s corridor.

Entrepreneurs also have invested private capital and creativity along Tulsa’s two alignments of Route 66, resulting in more than a half-dozen commercial districts with food, entertainment, and art. Some business owners have also added to the kitsch with extravagant signage, artistic features and architectural elements.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TheArtist on October 07, 2021, 05:32:52 pm
Posted on City of Tulsa's LinkedIn:


I wonder what the traffic counts are for that area?

Is there a city resource to find out?

Unfortunately that spot is not directly connected to any other vibrant streetscape or destination and if its not on a busy street it's kind of lost and out of the way.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: LandArchPoke on October 07, 2021, 06:07:48 pm
I wonder what the traffic counts are for that area?

Is there a city resource to find out?

Unfortunately that spot is not directly connected to any other vibrant streetscape or destination and if its not on a busy street it's kind of lost and out of the way.

Here is the link to INCOG traffic counts:

https://incog.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=8f4d62c5aecc4629a019f9cbe0076b89

They are not great in that area - around 2,600 along Riverside and 10,400 that cross the Arkansas bridge on SW Blvd.

That site would make a great student housing location for OSU Med, it's kind of an odd location for a Route 66 center given there's nothing commercial around it and the highways cut off easy access into downtown from there if you're a pedestrian.

I had mentioned that they cut out the space for this in the 11th Street Lobeck Taylor project. I wonder why that ended up not happening. Seems like it'd make better sense to have this somewhere along 11th between TU and TCC where there's more commercial space surrounding.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on October 07, 2021, 07:26:51 pm
Agree mixed-use housing is a better use for this site.  I still think you turn the podium where the Meadow Gold sign sits into an actual enclosed building that could be a Route 66 museum/gift shop.  Much better foot traffic along that stretch of 11th


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: shavethewhales on October 10, 2021, 02:02:31 pm
A few stories of housing on top of a retail layer with a nice patio overlooking the river would be nice. Like Artist said though, it's not high traffic or well connected, but at least it does have great visibility, trail access, and a decent local density in the surrounding neighborhood. I just want more riverside hangouts. Yard bar/sand bar is great, but no reason it should be the only business taking advantage of the river.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on October 10, 2021, 02:23:47 pm
A few stories of housing on top of a retail layer with a nice patio overlooking the river would be nice. Like Artist said though, it's not high traffic or well connected, but at least it does have great visibility, trail access, and a decent local density in the surrounding neighborhood. I just want more riverside hangouts. Yard bar/sand bar is great, but no reason it should be the only business taking advantage of the river.

I think Sand Bar/Yard Bar can’t have any competing F&B places within a certain radius.  Obviously doesn’t affect this site but is a challenge for building more critical mass at 19th & Riverside.  17th & Riverside would be a good spot if outside that radius, it has an existing parking lot and is across the street from the Cosmopolitan.  I envision a lot of the older apartments along Riverside north of there will be redeveloped so between 11th and 21st will be a livelier area.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: LandArchPoke on February 07, 2022, 03:08:58 pm
RFP due date was last month - four proposals, two are being evaluated in more depth.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/city-receives-four-proposals-for-route-66-mixed-use-development-evaluation-process-begins/article_856b74a0-82b1-11ec-ab15-4bf213ca105a.html (https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/city-receives-four-proposals-for-route-66-mixed-use-development-evaluation-process-begins/article_856b74a0-82b1-11ec-ab15-4bf213ca105a.html)

Sounds like Ross Group might have gotten a little ahead of themselves by claiming they had the site and were ready to break ground.

Just in case anyone missed what was said prior to the RFP deadline:

https://ktul.com/news/local/interactive-route-66-museum-drive-in-theater-pushing-for-a-2022-groundbreaking (https://ktul.com/news/local/interactive-route-66-museum-drive-in-theater-pushing-for-a-2022-groundbreaking)

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/route-66-alliances-proposed-boutique-hotel-interpretive-center-may-not-happen-heres-why/article_3e34dfd0-722c-11ec-99ec-8fd8bbfed39b.html (https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/route-66-alliances-proposed-boutique-hotel-interpretive-center-may-not-happen-heres-why/article_3e34dfd0-722c-11ec-99ec-8fd8bbfed39b.html)


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: swake on February 07, 2022, 03:44:02 pm
RFP due date was last month - four proposals, two are being evaluated in more depth.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/city-receives-four-proposals-for-route-66-mixed-use-development-evaluation-process-begins/article_856b74a0-82b1-11ec-ab15-4bf213ca105a.html (https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/city-receives-four-proposals-for-route-66-mixed-use-development-evaluation-process-begins/article_856b74a0-82b1-11ec-ab15-4bf213ca105a.html)

Sounds like Ross Group might have gotten a little ahead of themselves by claiming they had the site and were ready to break ground.

Just in case anyone missed what was said prior to the RFP deadline:

https://ktul.com/news/local/interactive-route-66-museum-drive-in-theater-pushing-for-a-2022-groundbreaking (https://ktul.com/news/local/interactive-route-66-museum-drive-in-theater-pushing-for-a-2022-groundbreaking)

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/route-66-alliances-proposed-boutique-hotel-interpretive-center-may-not-happen-heres-why/article_3e34dfd0-722c-11ec-99ec-8fd8bbfed39b.html (https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/route-66-alliances-proposed-boutique-hotel-interpretive-center-may-not-happen-heres-why/article_3e34dfd0-722c-11ec-99ec-8fd8bbfed39b.html)

Which two are moving forward?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: LandArchPoke on February 08, 2022, 12:03:37 pm
Which two are moving forward?

No official word about that yet - I'm sure there will be more info that comes out about the proposals here soon.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 06, 2022, 10:28:10 am
This is pretty cool.  If built like these renderings this will be a destination.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/cc/3cc8a4ee-cb2b-11ec-bd15-4f001c2b7911/6271a3f6857bf.image.jpg?resize=889%2C500)

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/bf/3bf90f72-cb2b-11ec-925c-7f086c7c2a36/6271a3f52d85e.image.jpg?resize=889%2C500)


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: ComeOnBenjals on May 06, 2022, 11:30:13 am
Very interesting concept... I'll give them credit for that! I think we need to beautify "Route 66" a bit before I'd pay money to rent a car and drive it. Not sure it's worth money to drive by AutoZone and KC MotorSports lol


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: tulsabug on May 06, 2022, 04:29:01 pm
I dunno. It's better that some designs but still forgettable and the Carvana-wannabe tower isn't actually as nice as a Carvana tower and those all pale in comparison to the VW Autostadt.

(https://www.imago-images.de/bild/st/0100824557/w.jpg)


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: tulsabug on May 06, 2022, 04:33:29 pm
Very interesting concept... I'll give them credit for that! I think we need to beautify "Route 66" a bit before I'd pay money to rent a car and drive it. Not sure it's worth money to drive by AutoZone and KC MotorSports lol

Maybe not but used car lots, auto parts stores, head shops, large balls of twine and cheap motels is all Route 66 ever was. I'd rather it be car-centric than a bunch of trinket hipster stores.

/ no offense to trinket hipster stores  ;D


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Red Arrow on May 06, 2022, 05:41:24 pm
Maybe not but used car lots, auto parts stores, head shops, large balls of twine and cheap motels is all Route 66 ever was. I'd rather it be car-centric than a bunch of trinket hipster stores.

I don't guess it's called the Mother Road because it was Public Transit dominate.



Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TulsaBeMore on May 06, 2022, 11:31:55 pm
This is pretty cool.  If built like these renderings this will be a destination.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/cc/3cc8a4ee-cb2b-11ec-bd15-4f001c2b7911/6271a3f6857bf.image.jpg?resize=889%2C500)

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/bf/3bf90f72-cb2b-11ec-925c-7f086c7c2a36/6271a3f52d85e.image.jpg?resize=889%2C500)

Head scratcher to me why the Discovery kids museum didn't have more of a destination architecture like this.  When I drive by it on Riverside, it could be a credit union headquarters, a field clinic of St. John's, Gateway Mortgage North or similar.  I can't imagine why the Children's Discovery museum powers that be didn't consider an exterior that would grab the imagination before ever entering the building.  It's not a bad rectangular box, but I'm sure or I hope the architects would have made it more magical than it it is on the outside if left to their own.    


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TulsaBeMore on May 06, 2022, 11:36:01 pm
Maybe not but used car lots, auto parts stores, head shops, large balls of twine and cheap motels is all Route 66 ever was. I'd rather it be car-centric than a bunch of trinket hipster stores.

/ no offense to trinket hipster stores  ;D

They should rehab the old fenced-off Arkansas River Bridge making it part of this complex --- a pedestrian mall with a permanent cafe, temporary retail kiosks and sitting areas. 


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: tulsabug on May 07, 2022, 06:10:18 am
They should rehab the old fenced-off Arkansas River Bridge making it part of this complex --- a pedestrian mall with a permanent cafe, temporary retail kiosks and sitting areas.  

How about somewhere permanent to have car shows? Not car "displays" but a place for local clubs to be able to host shows - large ones like 300-1000 cars? Now that would be a destination. A large hotel at the venue and food shops would absolutely clean up as would the city in tax money.

Route 66 needs to be cars, food, more cars, more food, and weird-ašš roadside attractions.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: tulsabug on May 07, 2022, 06:13:14 am
Head scratcher to me why the Discovery kids museum didn't have more of a destination architecture like this.  When I drive by it on Riverside, it could be a credit union headquarters, a field clinic of St. John's, Gateway Mortgage North or similar.  I can't imagine why the Children's Discovery museum powers that be didn't consider an exterior that would grab the imagination before ever entering the building.  It's not a bad rectangular box, but I'm sure or I hope the architects would have made it more magical than it it is on the outside if left to their own.    

A giant dinosaur coming out of the top of the building would have been cool. Maybe take some notes from the Indianapolis Childen's Museum:

(https://blog.trekaroo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Best-Childrens-Museums-shutterstock_564123604-1-720x540.jpg.webp)


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 07, 2022, 08:29:44 am
Head scratcher to me why the Discovery kids museum didn't have more of a destination architecture like this.  When I drive by it on Riverside, it could be a credit union headquarters, a field clinic of St. John's, Gateway Mortgage North or similar.  I can't imagine why the Children's Discovery museum powers that be didn't consider an exterior that would grab the imagination before ever entering the building.  It's not a bad rectangular box, but I'm sure or I hope the architects would have made it more magical than it it is on the outside if left to their own.    

I’ve thought the same thing, nice building and I’m glad it’s there (and great for local kids) but could’ve been more of a destination.  I guess if they ever expanded to the south they could cantilever the building across Crow Creek which would be pretty cool. 

I’ll say it: Selser Schaefer is a better design architect than KKT.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: Dspike on May 16, 2023, 08:48:31 am
Project has been withdrawn...

Quote
“We made the mistake of submitting a project that simply cost far more than it would ever be worth after further future construction analysis project costs,” Honea and Elliott said. “The only way we could serve as good stewards of the incentive capital provided by the city, county and state, would be to make drastic changes to the scope of the project, which we believe would have put members of the selection committee in the awkward position of determining how much change is too much change, so we have decided to withdraw our proposal.”

The six-story development was to have included retail space, dining, and a 40-room hotel and interpretive center with 17,000 square feet of outdoor terrace and amphitheater space.

Plans for the top three floors of the building called for 55 apartments, including one-story, two-story and studio units.

The proposal also envisioned a multi-story classic car vending machine, which was to have been built in front of the hotel and interpretive center.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/developer-withdraws-plans-for-route-66-mixed-use-project-near-old-11th-street-bridge/article_1d7f3718-f368-11ed-b7c5-a3d189e177a1.html


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 16, 2023, 11:37:59 am
Project has been withdrawn...

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/developer-withdraws-plans-for-route-66-mixed-use-project-near-old-11th-street-bridge/article_1d7f3718-f368-11ed-b7c5-a3d189e177a1.html

I mean who would have thought a car elevator and rooftop amphitheater would be too expensive to build? LOL

Also how they thought they could get that many hotel rooms and multifamily units into a five story building with the bottom floors being retail/museum space is a real stretch to the imagination. To do all the uses to the scale they were talking about it would have had to be at least 10 stories on that site or would have had to have some major modifications to the floorplate areas from those renderings.

I'll give it to Selser Schaefer - they produce really nice rendering but are never in any realm of reality to what can be built cost wise or scale wise ever. It's very misleading to promise a project to look the way they show - Santa Fe Square is another example of that. I don't see how so many get fooled by this but apparently the budget was something like $40-50 million above their original budget lol. How does that even happen and no one at the city that evaluated that proposal and picked it thought to themselves this seems too good to be true huh? Inflation has happened, rates have gone up but that's max $5-10 million in cost increase on that size of project no nearly $50 million on top of the original budget (essentially twice their submitted numbers - that's pretty crazy). I would like to know what the contractor who quoted their original budget was smoking lol either that or if they didn't have one and told Selser Schaefer we want to spend $x and show some renderings of what could be built - then they got taken by the architects who are wildly unrealistic on renderings. Helps their clients win pitches/RFPs but obviously backfired on them here.   


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: shavethewhales on May 16, 2023, 12:21:52 pm
^You may know more about it than me, but my impression is that Selser Schaefer knew what they were doing, but the cost increases of the past few years are just too much to keep up with. This isn't the only project falling due to cost increases and won't be the last. Heck, Gilcrease is only funded through the shell of the building due to continual cost increases.

I don't understand how they were going to fit it all in either, but I assume they sketched the floorplans. Probably tiny hotel rooms and studio apartments?

It's a bad time to be trying to get anything off the ground. I expect the next concept pitched for this corner will not be so flashy.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 16, 2023, 12:41:51 pm
^You may know more about it than me, but my impression is that Selser Schaefer knew what they were doing, but the cost increases of the past few years are just too much to keep up with. This isn't the only project falling due to cost increases and won't be the last. Heck, Gilcrease is only funded through the shell of the building due to continual cost increases.

I don't understand how they were going to fit it all in either, but I assume they sketched the floorplans. Probably tiny hotel rooms and studio apartments?

It's a bad time to be trying to get anything off the ground. I expect the next concept pitched for this corner will not be so flashy.

Gilcrease is an outlier and I frankly think a lot of that comes down to how the city bid out the work and they put themselves in a corner with contractors who are gauging the city now. Someone is pocketing excess millions on the construction/contractor side on that project. 

There have been cost increases the primarily driven by interest rates. Makes the construction debt a lot more expensive and reduces your returns on the perm debt side too. However, rate increases don't justify doubling of the construction costs. Material prices have stabilized and some have actually came down but labor costs and things like that are still stressed. 10-25% would seem in the realm of reasonable but 75-100% increase is not.

That means either the contractor who gave Sharp the cost estimate either royally screwed up on the original budget or Selser Schaefer sold Sharp a bunch of BS in the renderings claiming for what budget they wanted to spend that those renderings were realistic. They weren't. You can tell that simply by the scale of the renderings the conceptual idea was completely unrealistic. How no one questioned this I don't get it. Selser Schaefer did this on the Jenks Main Street RFP too with a bunch of fancy renderings of a building, streetscape, etc. that was completely unrealistic to build for the construction budget that went along with it. Helped them win that RFP for that developer too and that project is going to see major reworking to make it financially work as I've heard the developer is really struggling to make that happen. I do have a big issue with architects who sell renderings and things like that on public projects that are very misleading. It's a pattern with them for sure including Santa Fe Square and they've used those renderings to get tax incentives, etc. and then look what Santa Fe's office building looks like now? At some point I hope people catch on to what they do with projects so we can stop awarding RFPs to developers who don't submit more realistic expectations/ideas for sites. The selection committee should have to answer more detailed questions about this too but no one is ever held accountable for terrible decision making on things like this in Tulsa. Hopefully the other finalist is given a chance to see if they can make their project work.


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 16, 2023, 01:55:18 pm
I loved the Selser Schaefer proposal.  The site needs something iconic.  Maybe the City should increase its subsidy?


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: TheArtist on May 16, 2023, 10:47:37 pm
It's a bum location. I wouldn't put anything in there even if someone else totally paid for it. Whatever business went in after the building was built, would fail. Not enough through traffic, can't put much else around it to grow more of an attraction there over time, difficult to get to even when seen from nearby roads and would have to really stand out to be noticed enough for anyone to pay attention to begin with, not near enough to anything else for someone to want to stay at it as a hotel walking distance wise, etc. It would have to be a publicly funded enterprise surviving on donations and taxpayer dollars, whatever went in there because a for profit one could not make it, nor would want to try as other locations are better/easier. For profit business is tough and competitive as it is, you don't need to choose a location like this just to make yourself have even more of a "challenge". Thats absurd. And a tourist spot doesn't need that either! This is NOT a good location. Who thinks of this stuff? 


Title: Re: Route 66 Museum on Riverside
Post by: SXSW on May 17, 2023, 11:04:44 am
It's a bum location. I wouldn't put anything in there even if someone else totally paid for it. Whatever business went in after the building was built, would fail. Not enough through traffic, can't put much else around it to grow more of an attraction there over time, difficult to get to even when seen from nearby roads and would have to really stand out to be noticed enough for anyone to pay attention to begin with, not near enough to anything else for someone to want to stay at it as a hotel walking distance wise, etc. It would have to be a publicly funded enterprise surviving on donations and taxpayer dollars, whatever went in there because a for profit one could not make it, nor would want to try as other locations are better/easier. For profit business is tough and competitive as it is, you don't need to choose a location like this just to make yourself have even more of a "challenge". Thats absurd. And a tourist spot doesn't need that either! This is NOT a good location. Who thinks of this stuff?  

I think it's a good location for housing overlooking the river/near downtown and walking distance to the emerging Medical District.  So in that sense it is a good location.  But agree for any kind of retail enterprise it's not the best location.  I would like to see any kind of Route 66 museum/interpretive center take the over the Meadow Gold site at 11th & Quaker; the City of Tulsa already owns that site and could acquire the adjacent parking lot from Group M to demolish the podium building, temporarily relocate the sign and build a new museum building that fronts the street with the sign on top.  That area already see a good amount of foot traffic during the day with Decopolis, Buck Atom's, Jane's, Wildflower and several other businesses.  Much better use of the city Rt 66 funds IMO.  And while they're at it improve the streetscape along 11th.