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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: Hoss on February 11, 2015, 12:12:25 am



Title: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Hoss on February 11, 2015, 12:12:25 am
I think this is great.  Once again, Eliot Nelson helps downtown.

http://www.newson6.com/story/28077254/historic-downtown-tulsa-apartment-complex-to-get-modern-facelift


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TheArtist on February 11, 2015, 07:35:14 am
Very good. Like that it may not have much onsite parking once more development moves forward. Thats the kind of development that will actually help downtown get more pedestrian traffic and support downtown retail and transit.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: DowntownDan on February 11, 2015, 10:12:27 am
Does anyone have insight about the proposed office building next door that Nelson references towards the end of the video?


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: sgrizzle on February 14, 2015, 04:09:45 pm
Does anyone have insight about the proposed office building next door that Nelson references towards the end of the video?

Would explain why the houses were demo'd


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: sauerkraut on April 09, 2015, 11:42:11 am
By the time they re-do it the place will likely look nothing like it was. The historic element will be lost. In many cases when apartments are re-modeled or updated, the rents triple and the old tenants can no longer afford to live there when the place opens back up.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: dsjeffries on April 09, 2015, 11:52:44 am
By the time they re-do it the place will likely look nothing like it was. The historic element will be lost. In many cases when apartments are re-modeled or updated, the rents triple and the old tenants can no longer afford to live there when the place opens back up.

Read the story linked in the first article.

Quote
The tiny 36 apartments will remain 36 apartments, and prices will be affordable for people who don't want to pay more than $600 or $700 a month in rent.

“I'm hoping that income range can afford to live here in this complex and walk to work, and keep people down here and make it a real 24-7 neighborhood," Nelson said.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Conan71 on April 09, 2015, 12:37:18 pm
...derp.

Nothing to see here, folks.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: swake on April 09, 2015, 12:40:07 pm
...derp.

Nothing to see here, folks.

he's just trolling. That's all it is.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: DowntownDan on April 13, 2015, 11:01:02 am
Read the story linked in the first article.


Well $600-$700 is dramatically more than $0, which is what the vagrants have been paying for the last few decades.  He's still wrong though that the increase is "triple" because $0 x 3 is still $0.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Hoss on April 13, 2015, 11:06:36 am
Well $600-$700 is dramatically more than $0, which is what the vagrants have been paying for the last few decades.  He's still wrong though that the increase is "triple" because $0 x 3 is still $0.

Maths!


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: DowntownDan on July 09, 2015, 08:56:42 am
They put up "now leasing" signs today advertising studio apartments.  I suspect they will fill up pretty quick with youths.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 29, 2015, 07:59:11 am

Coliseum: Historic site made anew
New downtown digs: Coliseum apartments officially begin a second life
Affordable units added downtown


http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/new-downtown-digs-coliseum-apartments-officially-begin-a-second-life/article_1588c11f-5519-5896-8028-53f17d87eb22.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/new-downtown-digs-coliseum-apartments-officially-begin-a-second-life/article_1588c11f-5519-5896-8028-53f17d87eb22.html)

Quote
The Coliseum apartments at 635 S. Elgin Ave. were originally built in 1925 to provide housing for support workers in the oil and gas industry.
So it’s only fitting that the first tenant in the renovated Coliseum is Zak Clark, an accountant with Seminole Energy.
“I had been wanting to live downtown for a while, but the price point and location were a problem,” he said. “The Coliseum is the right price and the right location.”
He wasn’t the only tenant for long. Though the $3 million redevelopment by Nelson Stowe just wrapped up two weeks ago, over half of the 36 units already have tenants, said Casey Stowe, co-head of Nelson Stowe along with restaurateur Elliot Nelson.
“We figured it would lease quickly, but this is amazing,” he said.
Though The Coliseum is one of the smaller housing developments in downtown Tulsa, its transformation cleaned up one of the most blighted buildings downtown.
Stowe said the building was in a horrible state of disrepair — even when empty, the building generated a $700 water bill from all the leaks.
Even with the deplorable condition, the apartment building was rented out before Nelson Stowe bought it — technically.
“When we bought it four years ago, we had six people paying us, and there were more than six people living here,” Stowe said.
Nelson Stowe bought it with the intention of improving the neighborhood, and soon decided to move everyone out and start fresh. The group enlisted the help of architectural firm Kinslow Keith & Todd and construction company Ross Group for a complete overhaul.
“We went all the way down to the studs,” Stowe said. “Of the inside, we were only able to keep the hallway flooring and the interior of the exterior walls.”
But because the project relied on historic tax credits, they worked to keep the building as close to its roots as possible. Each of the units, which are roughly 500 square feet in size, kept the same floor plans they had in 1925, with the exception of the front units moving their doors somewhat to accommodate modern fire regulations.
Each of the units got new hardwood floors, stainless steel appliances and granite counters to ensure the units are appealing as well as affordable at $600 to $650 per unit, Stowe said.
“We didn’t want it to feel like a $600 apartment,” he said.
American Residential Group is managing The Coliseum. They’re also partners with Nelson Stowe on The Edge, formerly known as Hartford Commons, a $26 million, 162-unit development at 215 S. Greenwood Ave. that’s under construction now.
Nelson Stowe is also developing The Boxyard, a retail-focused center at the southeast corner of Third Street and Frankfort Avenue that will be built out of over 30 large metal shipping containers.
Though The Boxyard is still in the design phase, Stowe said they’ve already signed letters of intent for more than half the space, including some names familiar to Tulsans, Stowe said.
Additionally, Nelson Stowe planned the redevelopment of the Gates Hardware building at 216 N. Elgin Ave. across from ONEOK Field until it was purchased by KSQ Architects, which is now heading the $5.2 million redevelopment.
When that development is finished in September, KSQ will move into the upper floor, while Nelson and Marshall Brewing Co. will open up a brew pub on the ground floor.

Finished 2 weeks ago! Impressive. Professional and beneficial development for downtown. Maybe Sager could learn a thing or two from this guy!


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 29, 2015, 08:03:14 am
To be fair, they purchased it 4 years ago. However, there wasn't any major announcement until February of this year so we weren't waiting around for a decade expecting it to be fixed up like the infamous First Street Lofts.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on July 29, 2015, 08:16:28 am
Interestingly, he says they're 50% leased and have been open two weeks. I think I've read on TN before that most other recent downtown living has wait lists before they opened. We also hear a lot that downtown needs more affordable housing and that the current fleet of lofts opening are too expensive. Stowe's comment is just one anecdote, but it made me think: maybe there's something wrong in the way we've all analysed the downtown housing market. Maybe there's more demand for high end rent than low rent? Who knows. There are all kinds of other factors. Like maybe their leasing office sat on their hands.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: carltonplace on July 29, 2015, 08:55:52 am
One of my friends has been trying to get a place downtown for some time now, he told me that there are long waiting lists for existing lofts and apartments like 420 Mayo and even for the spaces that are under construction or have not started like the TransOK building. He got lucky when he met someone that was moving out of 420 and took over their lease. 


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 29, 2015, 09:16:23 am
Interestingly, he says they're 50% leased and have been open two weeks. I think I've read on TN before that most other recent downtown living has wait lists before they opened. We also hear a lot that downtown needs more affordable housing and that the current fleet of lofts opening are too expensive. Stowe's comment is just one anecdote, but it made me think: maybe there's something wrong in the way we've all analysed the downtown housing market. Maybe there's more demand for high end rent than low rent? Who knows. There are all kinds of other factors. Like maybe their leasing office sat on their hands.

The article makes it seem like they weren't pre-leasing them. Perhaps they didn't have a good timeline on the finish and didn't want to take a wait-list or make any promises until they were finished. He said “We figured it would lease quickly, but this is amazing,” which indicates it is going better than they predicted.  Leasing 18 of 36 units in 2 weeks is quite amazing. Based on that rate, the rest should fill up within a month. For that price and location, these are quite a bargain.

Still, maybe you're right that perhaps professionals downtown want to be in higher-end places where they are among other higher-end renters to avoid some of the pitfalls of living in a building full of $600/month apartments (That is cheap, almost Case apartments/Perry Properties cheap!). The primary downside I see for these is how small they are as they are studios (500 ft2). See this photo:
(https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/18020_477629949069126_1798319678897596344_n.jpg?oh=76d1b836687f65f46849ff338b2be6ba&oe=5653DE08)


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: hello on July 29, 2015, 11:12:51 am
They are pretty small (for Tulsa) and they are studios. I'd love something between a small studio at $600 and the $1245 I pay now for a one bedroom. If they were one bedroom I'd consider it if it were in the Brady but not where this are located. That being said--I believe there is definitely a market for these and I'm glad they exist! 


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: kingsy on July 29, 2015, 01:24:26 pm
I may be remembering incorrectly, so please forgive me if so.  It seems I remember it being said for the developers to receive some of the funding they had to build these out for low mod income levels.  Seems I remember the thought being that people that rely on tips, i.e. bartenders, wait staff, etc. would be considered the main tenants of these as they generally don't show as much income.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: carltonplace on July 29, 2015, 02:45:48 pm
They are pretty small (for Tulsa) and they are studios. I'd love something between a small studio at $600 and the $1245 I pay now for a one bedroom. If they were one bedroom I'd consider it if it were in the Brady but not where this are located. That being said--I believe there is definitely a market for these and I'm glad they exist! 

it wont be very long before this area is just as thriving as the Brady.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: swake on July 29, 2015, 03:22:51 pm
They are pretty small (for Tulsa) and they are studios. I'd love something between a small studio at $600 and the $1245 I pay now for a one bedroom. If they were one bedroom I'd consider it if it were in the Brady but not where this are located. That being said--I believe there is definitely a market for these and I'm glad they exist! 

My living room is about the size of these apartments. I couldn't even get my furniture in there. I now can see what all those small space furniture models at IKEA are for.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Townsend on July 29, 2015, 03:58:45 pm
My living room is about the size of these apartments. I couldn't even get my furniture in there. I now can see what all those small space furniture models at IKEA are for.

"high and mighty"

(https://thenorthbritishpost.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/peasants.jpg)


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: swake on July 29, 2015, 05:57:29 pm
"high and mighty"

(https://thenorthbritishpost.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/peasants.jpg)

No, No, No, high and mighty is a closet the size of these apartments.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: PonderInc on July 30, 2015, 09:30:01 am
I popped in yesterday for a quick look.  They are small but nice. Very doable for young folks wanting to be downtown.  It's great that this option exists.  If I were Elliott, I would have doubled the size of some of them, so folks who wanted a bigger space could get them.  But maybe he's right in keeping it affordable.  Lord knows, downtown went from almost no housing to housing that almost nobody can afford...seemingly overnight.  So this is a great addition.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on July 30, 2015, 09:34:39 am
Quote from: PonderInc
If I were Elliott, I would have doubled the size of some of them, so folks who wanted a bigger space could get them.

Stowe stated in an earlier video that that would have disqualified them for the historic tax credits.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: DTowner on July 30, 2015, 09:42:38 am
I popped in yesterday for a quick look.  They are small but nice. Very doable for young folks wanting to be downtown.  It's great that this option exists.  If I were Elliott, I would have doubled the size of some of them, so folks who wanted a bigger space could get them.  But maybe he's right in keeping it affordable.  Lord knows, downtown went from almost no housing to housing that almost nobody can afford...seemingly overnight.  So this is a great addition.

If you want an "affordable" option downtown, it's going to be small unless it is subsidized.  And not every project needs to hit ever demand point.  I think this is a great and needed addition to downtown housing options. 


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TheArtist on July 30, 2015, 09:46:01 am
My living room is about the size of these apartments. I couldn't even get my furniture in there. I now can see what all those small space furniture models at IKEA are for.

I have a 50s Ranch and for a time was buying new oversized furniture like I would find in my clients McMansion type homes.  Felt cramped and too small.  But for a long while now I have been replacing that with a mix of Mission, Art Deco, and Retro 50's type furniture (some new, and some quality authentic pieces that add a lot of class and comfort) and now the home feels quite spacious.  


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: cbs on July 30, 2015, 09:54:52 am
I toured them last week. They did a really good job with this redevelopment. I've been to several more similar older apartments in the area and they often feel older, dated, like something is imminently about to break. The Coliseum apartments look & feel classic but it's leaps and bounds better quality than the others i've seen. Price point is great and rare (as far as I'm aware) inside the IDL. If you're a young 'unprofessional' on a budget and still want the downtown life these are the way to go (as long as you're okay with a studio apartment, which I think most of that demographic is). I hope to see more projects like this.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: rdj on July 30, 2015, 10:41:45 am
Got a few details on the office building going next to this project.  Owner occupied, multiple (3) stories.  Pretty cool project from what I hear.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on July 30, 2015, 01:02:09 pm
Quote from: rdj"
Got a few details on the office building going next to this project.  Owner occupied, multiple (3) stories.  Pretty cool project from what I hear.

Who's the owner? Timeframe? Do you know how much of the space between the Coliseum and Lindsey House it will cover? Ground floor retail? Pic?


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Conan71 on July 30, 2015, 02:28:39 pm
I have a 50s Ranch and for a time was buying new oversized furniture like I would find in my clients McMansion type homes.  Felt cramped and too small.  But for a long while now I have been replacing that with a mix of Mission, Art Deco, and Retro 50's type furniture (some new, and some quality authentic pieces that add a lot of class and comfort) and now the home feels quite spacious.  

I’ve found an economy of furniture to be nice.  Our Lortondale home seemed really cluttered with our furnishings.  When we bought our current home, I was a bit taken back by open space, thinking it didn’t look right.  Thus far, I’ve resisted the urge to buy more MCM pieces “just because we have the space now.”

As far as the rest of the posts: When I moved back to Tulsa from KC in 1987, I leased a 500 sq. ft. (or so) studio at Center Plaza (now Central Park Condos).  It was perfect for a young single guy with minimal furnishings and possessions.  I suspect that’s the target market for Nelson Stowe as well for this development. 

IIRC, I went to one of the furniture rental places and bought a sofa bed.  The only other pieces were a dresser, desk, TV stand and a small dining set.  My rent was $305 a month which I’m guessing would be comparable to the $600 these are renting for in today’s money.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 30, 2015, 02:52:12 pm
My living room is about the size of these apartments. I couldn't even get my furniture in there. I now can see what all those small space furniture models at IKEA are for.

That sounds a bit condescending. Any major urban area in the country has efficiency apartments this size and smaller. Plenty of people love the option of less space in order to be in a higher demand area.

Why do so many people think they need huge homes full of massive ugly furniture adding to urban sprawl? That is the opposite of what most on this forum are advocating. Very few people use their space well around here and don't seem to realize how ugly and cluttered their houses are.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Markk on July 30, 2015, 03:45:18 pm
damn.... to each his own.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Red Arrow on July 30, 2015, 04:39:39 pm
When I moved back to Tulsa from KC in 1987, I leased a 500 sq. ft. (or so) studio at Center Plaza (now Central Park Condos). 

My rent was $305 a month which I’m guessing would be comparable to the $600 these are renting for in today’s money.

$640, pretty close.

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm



Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: Red Arrow on July 30, 2015, 04:47:25 pm
Very few people use their space well around here and don't seem to realize how ugly and cluttered their houses are.

I'll admit to cluttered.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 31, 2015, 09:03:14 am
That sounds a bit condescending. Any major urban area in the country has efficiency apartments this size and smaller. Plenty of people love the option of less space in order to be in a higher demand area.

Why do so many people think they need huge homes full of massive ugly furniture adding to urban sprawl? That is the opposite of what most on this forum are advocating. Very few people use their space well around here and don't seem to realize how ugly and cluttered their houses are.


Volume for volume's sake. 

Bill of goods that has been sold over the last few decades by the cabal formed by builders/developers, real estate companies, and property tax entities.  Bigger volume or square feet, is always better for them when price/cost per sq ft is the basis for profit to all three.

A well appointed 700 to 1,200 sq ft house can be just as comfortable and just as luxurious as a 2,500 ft McMansion.  But an addition of nice 1,000 sq ft homes will never happen now.





Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: rebound on July 31, 2015, 09:30:04 am
Volume for volume's sake. 

Bill of goods that has been sold over the last few decades by the cabal formed by builders/developers, real estate companies, and property tax entities.  Bigger volume or square feet, is always better for them when price/cost per sq ft is the basis for profit to all three.

A well appointed 700 to 1,200 sq ft house can be just as comfortable and just as luxurious as a 2,500 ft McMansion.  But an addition of nice 1,000 sq ft homes will never happen now.

How many people are in that 1,200 sq ft house?  For a single, or couple with no kids, an efficiency apt or 1000 sq ft house might work, but it would still be tight.  Throw in a couple of kids and it would be very tough to make something that small work comfortably.  If I recall,  in the book "The Not So Big House", once you get under 1,700 sq ft it gets tough to be comfortable for a family. 

 


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on July 31, 2015, 10:56:33 am
How many people are in that 1,200 sq ft house?  For a single, or couple with no kids, an efficiency apt or 1000 sq ft house might work, but it would still be tight.  Throw in a couple of kids and it would be very tough to make something that small work comfortably.  If I recall,  in the book "The Not So Big House", once you get under 1,700 sq ft it gets tough to be comfortable for a family. 
 

The market for condos around 1000-1200 is strong in larger urban markets. Tulsa has quite a few homes in that range thanks to relatively good preservation of the old midtown neighborhoods (e.g. Renaissance) and the prices there keep going up (up to $130/ft2 for a fully remodeled cottage & up to $190/ft2 in Florence Park). A couple with 1 child can be completely comfortable in a 2bd/1ba 1000 ft2 house. More young people are waiting longer to have kids or not having kids at all (compared to previous generations) so the market for homes in that range could increase. Tulsa is far behind when it comes to condos downtown but cheap real estate and (up to this point) low density downtown probably hinders that to some extent.

From what I've seen over the years, the interiors of smaller cottages tend to be a lot better utilized than the typical 2000 ft2 3 bed/2 bath in the suburbs. Often couples with a home like that have a room or two full of junk and unused workout equipment or a moth-balled guest room. What a waste of space and energy! Not to mention the extra gas and time used every day to drive a bit further out to where they could afford that extra room or two they never use.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: swake on July 31, 2015, 11:35:11 am
That sounds a bit condescending. Any major urban area in the country has efficiency apartments this size and smaller. Plenty of people love the option of less space in order to be in a higher demand area.

Why do so many people think they need huge homes full of massive ugly furniture adding to urban sprawl? That is the opposite of what most on this forum are advocating. Very few people use their space well around here and don't seem to realize how ugly and cluttered their houses are.

Not condescending at all, just something I noticed. With today's open floor plans a 400-500 square ft living area is going to basically be standard for every home built with more than say 2,000 square feet for the last 20 years. It's not that big a deal or unusual. And the large majority of houses built in the last 20 years are going be above 2000 square feet. I think the average now is 2700-2800 square feet.



Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 31, 2015, 01:59:12 pm
How many people are in that 1,200 sq ft house?  For a single, or couple with no kids, an efficiency apt or 1000 sq ft house might work, but it would still be tight.  Throw in a couple of kids and it would be very tough to make something that small work comfortably.  If I recall,  in the book "The Not So Big House", once you get under 1,700 sq ft it gets tough to be comfortable for a family. 

 


I guess it just depends on what you are brainwashed into believing is "comfortable".  1,200 ft, 3 bed, two bath house is a lot of space - especially if one can find a designer that actually designs rather than just fills volume.

A lot of houses in town are much smaller than that 2,500 ft "minimum required" space and people do just fine with it.  You really don't need all that...nor the stuff that goes with it.



Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: rebound on July 31, 2015, 02:51:24 pm
I guess it just depends on what you are brainwashed into believing is "comfortable".  1,200 ft, 3 bed, two bath house is a lot of space - especially if one can find a designer that actually designs rather than just fills volume.

A lot of houses in town are much smaller than that 2,500 ft "minimum required" space and people do just fine with it.  You really don't need all that...nor the stuff that goes with it.

I wrote my earlier post just before heading out to run an errand, and was pondering the whole thing while driving.  Obviously, efficiency apartments and small condos, etc, are great and I do think we need more of them, especially in the downtown area as that will tend (I think) to lend itself to younger and older ends of the housing spectrum, with no/few kids, etc.

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure I mentioned 1700 sq ft, not 2500, but I haven't read that book in 15 years and so can't remember exactly what number it uses.  But I do remember that our first house when were just married was just east of Love Field in Dallas, built in the early '40s in an area originally developed for airport workers.  It was originally about 1000 sq ft, and somewhere along the line somebody added a master bed and bath and so it was officially three bedroom, two bath, one car garage.  One living area, one dining, and small kitchen with really no place to sit down and eat in the kitchen.  It was "clean" in the sense that there was no wasted space, quite a few built-ins, and was really very comfortable for the two of us.  It was still good with the first kid, but after the second came along a couple of years later, it was just too small.  Plus, both my wife and I worked from home (still do when we aren't traveling), and we really needed the two extra dedicated work areas/rooms.

So first we moved to the Dallas suburbs, with a pool and not much yard.  And I have to say that while I really liked the house itself there, the whole area lacked any amount of soul and I couldn't stand it.  So then we moved up here and through the "big house on an acre lot" phase for a few years and that was pretty fun for a while, and now are down in mid-town, at a house that is somewhere between the two extremes, with a much (MUCH, thank goodness...) smaller yard.  And when the kids are gone in 4-5 years we'll move again, probably back down to something like what we started with, if not a little smaller.  So it's all cycle, and I think it will benefit Tulsa to have affordable and available housing for all those options as people make their way along life's path.
 


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 03, 2015, 10:59:20 am
I wrote my earlier post just before heading out to run an errand, and was pondering the whole thing while driving.  Obviously, efficiency apartments and small condos, etc, are great and I do think we need more of them, especially in the downtown area as that will tend (I think) to lend itself to younger and older ends of the housing spectrum, with no/few kids, etc.

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure I mentioned 1700 sq ft, not 2500, but I haven't read that book in 15 years and so can't remember exactly what number it uses.  But I do remember that our first house when were just married was just east of Love Field in Dallas, built in the early '40s in an area originally developed for airport workers.  It was originally about 1000 sq ft, and somewhere along the line somebody added a master bed and bath and so it was officially three bedroom, two bath, one car garage.  One living area, one dining, and small kitchen with really no place to sit down and eat in the kitchen.  It was "clean" in the sense that there was no wasted space, quite a few built-ins, and was really very comfortable for the two of us.  It was still good with the first kid, but after the second came along a couple of years later, it was just too small.  Plus, both my wife and I worked from home (still do when we aren't traveling), and we really needed the two extra dedicated work areas/rooms.

So first we moved to the Dallas suburbs, with a pool and not much yard.  And I have to say that while I really liked the house itself there, the whole area lacked any amount of soul and I couldn't stand it.  So then we moved up here and through the "big house on an acre lot" phase for a few years and that was pretty fun for a while, and now are down in mid-town, at a house that is somewhere between the two extremes, with a much (MUCH, thank goodness...) smaller yard.  And when the kids are gone in 4-5 years we'll move again, probably back down to something like what we started with, if not a little smaller.  So it's all cycle, and I think it will benefit Tulsa to have affordable and available housing for all those options as people make their way along life's path.
 


We have lived in a little 1,050 sq ft "shack" the whole time raising 4 kids, an assortment of grandkids, and even the occasional great grand.  Luckily, except for a missing second bathroom, much of the 3 bedroom layout is decent enough to facilitate easy movement and partitioning of areas well enough to work.  Bunk beds for two or more similar kids works well.  Sometimes it would be nice to be not quite so cozy, but that is what outdoors is for!  Also, the place is "gathering central" for all the family holiday dinners and events.  Average around 15 to 20 show up for these things (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc) but have had as many as 37 one time.  And that event actually had more attendees, but some left, some arrived through the day....  And this house is bigger than the one we moved from with the herd!

Am currently planning to build something new.  If I can get the design right - which I can - it will be 2 bed, at LEAST 2 bath, living area - possibly combined with dining, and a kitchen "to die for".  Under 1,000 sq ft. (targeting 850 sq ft, just because...)  Not gonna spend as much time as have in the past on maintenance and housekeeping!!    I bet there is NO addition in Tulsa or ANY of the surrounding towns that would let me get away with that!!   Going to a place that doesn't even require building permits!!  Gotta love that!!

We will be working from home, but I am going to built an office/shop building separate from the house - it may be almost as big as the house!  I need small office and electronics lab space, SWMBO needs floral design space.

There is a LOT to be said for the smaller space for raising kids.  It's what all my family's families did until my generation - then a couple of them got the McMansion habit started for their branches, and their kids and grands have turned out to be a real mess for the most part.  Staying crowded makes it easier to keep an eye on the kids!  Yeah, they whine and moan and groan cause their friends all have their own "suites" - tough!!  Get over it!

And I never allowed a video game in the house!  Ever!


I did think about adding a master suite - with that second bathroom! - but the lot is too small for all the gardening SWMBO wants to do, so that was and is the priority.  Suits me - mowing the tiny patch of grass takes about 20 minutes, front AND back!!  Weed eating can take another 20 or so if I mess with it, but most the time, it's no big deal - the mower edges well enough.  Don't really mind that, so will leave it alone.



Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 04, 2015, 09:21:30 am
I live in 1100 square feet with one bathroom. My wife, myself, a teenage son, and 3 large dogs. I cook a lot. I entertain a lot. I have a smalls table of bicycles I keep in the house.

It is in a diverse neighborhood (some sketchy, some nice) with high walk ability (restaurants, pet stores, grocery stores, liquor stores, banks, barbers, churches, parks, general stores, office store, bike store, bars... all within ~10 blocks). I paid less than $100k and have added new ceilings, floors, fences, a ~600 sq foot deck, hot tub, siding, and roof.  It is by no means fancy, but my mortgage and insurance is well under $1k on a 15 year note.

If the house had a basement to put the bikes, furnace, hot water heater, washer/dryer, and storage space - it would be perfect. As it stands, it is a bit crowded but perfectly doable.

But I hear from peers that they "need" 1,000 square feet for each person in the household. I totally understanding WANTING more room. But we confuse need with want. I'm not willing to trade location, walk ability, and an interesting neighborhood for more space. And I'm not willing to spend $300-400k to get more space and keep a location I like.

These lofts provide a neat neighborhood (they are essentially creating a neighborhood) in a good location. The amount of space for a single person or a young couple is secondary.


Title: Re: Coliseum Apartments to get facelift
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 04, 2015, 05:41:18 pm
I live in 1100 square feet with one bathroom. My wife, myself, a teenage son, and 3 large dogs. I cook a lot. I entertain a lot. I have a smalls table of bicycles I keep in the house.

It is in a diverse neighborhood (some sketchy, some nice) with high walk ability (restaurants, pet stores, grocery stores, liquor stores, banks, barbers, churches, parks, general stores, office store, bike store, bars... all within ~10 blocks). I paid less than $100k and have added new ceilings, floors, fences, a ~600 sq foot deck, hot tub, siding, and roof.  It is by no means fancy, but my mortgage and insurance is well under $1k on a 15 year note.

If the house had a basement to put the bikes, furnace, hot water heater, washer/dryer, and storage space - it would be perfect. As it stands, it is a bit crowded but perfectly doable.

But I hear from peers that they "need" 1,000 square feet for each person in the household. I totally understanding WANTING more room. But we confuse need with want. I'm not willing to trade location, walk ability, and an interesting neighborhood for more space. And I'm not willing to spend $300-400k to get more space and keep a location I like.

These lofts provide a neat neighborhood (they are essentially creating a neighborhood) in a good location. The amount of space for a single person or a young couple is secondary.


Sounds like Brookside area...

I built a small shed in the backyard for garden tools (10 x 16) and then figured out I could insulate it, put in electricity and have the lab space, plus floral design area.  If you neighborhood IS that sketchy, you could do 10 x 12 probably without even a permit...seems like I remember that is the largest the city allows... Then all ya gotta worry about is an HOA!  I would never live in a neighborhood that has one of those!  Makes it too boring.

Maybe you could build a small "basement" at back of house for all that stuff, then use as storm shelter, too.  Not sure about Tulsa, but the new place exempts storm shelter space from property tax.  I told them my storm shelter would be almost 1,000 sq ft (new house)....  It got a chuckle!