The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Vashta Nerada on December 05, 2014, 07:38:04 pm



Title: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 05, 2014, 07:38:04 pm
Police emissary Lori Fullbright explains chokeholds:


TULSA, OK -- Since the video surfaced of the scuffle between an OHP trooper and a paramedic, many have wondered if it was appropriate for Trooper Martin to grab the throat of EMT Maurice White.  Every law enforcement agency has its own policy for using force.

Oklahoma's training agency, CLEET, teaches one neck move for subduing a suspect.  There is a second one, but it can kill someone, so it is only to be used when officers are fighting for their lives.

The power of the neck restraint is that it can render a suspect unconscious in 7-10 seconds.  That is especially effective if the struggle is on the ground and it could give an officer time to get a suspect handcuffed before he or she wakes up.

Self defense experts say the move has been tested over centuries in various martial arts and should not permanently injure the suspect. "If the subject is hitting a law enforcement professional, it is the go to move," said CLEET instructor Billy McKelvey.

Billy McKelvey, now with the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office, taught self defense tactics for the state law enforcement training agency, CLEET, for five years.  He says the other neck move is the bar choke hold, where the forearm is at a 90 degree angle across the throat and is something else altogether.  It cuts off oxygen from the heart to the brain and can cause death.

That particular hold can crush the larynx.

The neck restraint is all about restricting blood flow from the brain down, not from the heart to the brain and is about pressure on the veins, not the larynx.
http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=10536777


So yes, that appears to be CLEET training Oklahoma police to use a chokehold they admit "can cause death", but only if they are in fear for their lives.






MOORE, Okla. — “I can’t breathe!”

Those anguished words from Luis Rodriguez can be heard near the start of cellphone video his wife made as his cheek was mashed to the pavement of the Warren Theatre parking lot.

Rodriguez had been pepper-sprayed and was being handcuffed, an effort that included five law enforcement officer, two sets of handcuffs and several minutes.

Once cuffed, the 6-foot, 225-pound man was propped up into a seated position. He was unconscious. Paramedics later noticed he had stopped breathing and took him to Moore Medical Center.

He died a short time later.

Details of the events leading to Rodriguez’s death early Feb. 15 were revealed in a police report obtained by The Oklahoman.

The names of the officers involved also were made public. They are Sgt. Brian Clarkston, officer Ryan Minard and officer Joseph Bradley, who are employed by the Moore Police Department, and game wardens Tyler Howser and Chad Strang. The game wardens and Clarkston were working security for the theater at the time of the incident.

The six-minute cellphone video recorded by Rodriguez’s wife, Nair, was made public Tuesday through the family’s attorney, Michael Brooks-Jimenez. The video starts with Luis Rodriguez already face-down in the parking lot. In it, viewers hear the panic in his wife’s voice because her husband isn’t moving.

Brooks-Jimenez said he was surprised by the lack of urgency shown by the officers and paramedics in giving medical attention to Rodriguez, 44. Rodriguez, an electrician and church volunteer, doesn’t appear to struggle throughout the video.

Brooks-Jimenez said he intends to file a lawsuit against the Moore Police Department and the Warren Theatre once he is able to see the autopsy results and medical records.

He also is trying to get a copy of the theater’s surveillance video, but so far, neither the theater nor police have made it available.

The officers first made contact with the family about 1 a.m. after a woman reported seeing a domestic assault in the theater parking lot. Nair Rodriguez says she slapped her daughter, 19-year-old Luinahi, during an argument, but the officers didn’t know who hit whom initially.

Nair Rodriguez was attempting to leave the theater, where they had been watching the movie “RoboCop,” and had started her vehicle with a remote starter. While one officer ran after her, the others focused on Luis Rodriguez.

According to a search warrant filed in Cleveland County District Court, the officers asked Rodriguez for his ID, and he refused. He told them it was a family matter and none of their business.

Officer Minard attempted to take Rodriguez to the ground using "a police maneuver". Once the officer grabbed his arm, Rodriguez swung him to the ground, the report states. That’s when the other officers stepped in.

http://newsok.com/more-details-emerge-in-warren-theatre-death/article/3938148



The Oklahoma State Medical Examiner said Wednesday that the death of Luis Rodriguez was ruled a homicide.

MOORE — A moviegoer died in February because physical restraint by police brought on a heart condition know as cardiac arrhythmia, the state medical examiner reported Wednesday.
The Feb. 15 death of Luis Rodriguez, 44, was ruled a homicide due to the physical struggle and police restraint associated.

http://newsok.com/police-action-led-to-mans-heart-arrhythmia-in-theater-scuffle-oklahoma-medical-examiner-says/article/3949582






http://kfor.com/2014/02/25/graphic-raw-video-of-arrest-released-after-man-dies-in-moore-police-custody/
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/justice/oklahoma-arrest-death-video/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/20/police-luis-rodriguez-death-oklahoma_n_5516937.html





Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 05, 2014, 08:56:35 pm
(http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/387108/slide_387108_4654578_free.jpg)


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Red Arrow on December 05, 2014, 10:11:09 pm
(http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/387108/slide_387108_4654578_free.jpg)

And that number is?



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 05, 2014, 10:36:28 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 05, 2014, 11:21:49 pm

And that number is?


According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, in 2013 there were 461 "justifiable homicides" by police — defined as "the killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty." In all but three of these reported killings, officers used firearms.
The true number of fatal police shootings is surely much higher, however, because many law enforcement agencies do not report to the FBI database. Attempts by journalists to compile more complete data by collating local news reports have resulted in estimates as high as 1,000 police killings a year.

http://www.columbian.com/news/2014/dec/05/what-americas-police-agencies-dont-want/


More than 550 law-enforcement killings were not included in FBI statistics between 2007 and 2012, according to an analysis by the Wall Street Journal, which concluded it is nearly impossible to tally how many people are killed by police officers in any given year.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-hundreds-of-police-killings-not-reported-to-fbi/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 06, 2014, 09:22:45 pm
Borrowing from another topic

Union.....It's that simple.....



Quote
The FOP unions have much more influence -- and sometimes outright control -- of the nations law enforcement system than we care to admit.
How intertwined are the unions in day-to-day police operations?


Last month an NYPD Officer mistakenly shot a man for doing nothing more than opening his door at the wrong time,  what is the first call he made?

Did he call an ambulance for the dying man?  No.
Did he call another officer that might have medical skills?  No.

The first call he made was to his union rep.
As the victim was literally breathing his last breath, the cop that shot him was texting the union lawyers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/exclusive-texted-union-rep-akai-gurley-lay-dying-article-1.2034219







Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 07, 2014, 08:49:52 pm
Chicago is gonna have to hurry up to catch up - they have only gotten 384 for the year so far!!

They had 421 last year!!   Slackers....

And 509 in 2012!! 



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 20, 2014, 07:49:50 pm
Chicago is gonna have to hurry up to catch up - they have only gotten 384 for the year so far!!

They had 421 last year!!   Slackers....

And 509 in 2012!! 



A San Jose police officer has been placed on administrative leave after he posted, and later deleted, two threatening messages on Twitter directed at protesters participating in recent demonstrations against police brutality.

On Saturday, Officer Phillip White tweeted, “By the way if anyone feels they can’t breathe or their lives matter I’ll be at the movies tonight, off duty, carrying my gun.”

White also tweeted that he would use his “God given and law appointed right and duty to kill” anyone who threatens his family. He ended the message with the hashtag #CopsLivesMatter.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/san-jose-police-officer-reviewed-for-twitter-threat


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 22, 2014, 02:00:09 pm

A San Jose police officer has been placed on administrative leave after he posted, and later deleted, two threatening messages on Twitter directed at protesters participating in recent demonstrations against police brutality.

On Saturday, Officer Phillip White tweeted, “By the way if anyone feels they can’t breathe or their lives matter I’ll be at the movies tonight, off duty, carrying my gun.”

White also tweeted that he would use his “God given and law appointed right and duty to kill” anyone who threatens his family. He ended the message with the hashtag #CopsLivesMatter.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/san-jose-police-officer-reviewed-for-twitter-threat


It goes to the same problem we have as a nation overall.  Too much extremism on both sides - and both sides can take plenty of blame in this situation!  The one thing it is NOT is "only" one side!

The cops won't do anything about their side of the problem (siege mentality) - you don't hear a lot about police abuse in areas like Maple Ridge or Highland Park (Dallas),  The worst areas of police abuse are also typically the worst areas of blight/gangs/etc and the society around the cesspools won't/can't do anything on their side of the problem.



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Ed W on December 22, 2014, 06:19:02 pm
A FOX News station in Baltimore was caught manipulating a story to make it appear that anti-police brutality demonstrators were chanting "kill a cop" when in fact they'd cut the final line.

The aired version:

We won't stop
We can't stop
Kill a cop

The full version from another video of the same event:

We won't stop
We can't stop
'Til killer cops
Are in cell blocks

PINAC has links to both videos on this page:

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2014/12/baltimore-news-station-caught-manipulating-video-paint-protesters-cop-killers/ (http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2014/12/baltimore-news-station-caught-manipulating-video-paint-protesters-cop-killers/)


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on December 22, 2014, 06:22:00 pm
Perhaps it was manipulated.  I guess this could be manipulated as well...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8[/youtube]


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on December 22, 2014, 06:32:01 pm
If Ed can post a report covered by Gawler and TPM, I guess this source is credible.

twitchy.com/2014/12/20/can-they-breathe-execution-style-killing-of-two-nypd-officers-celebrated-salute-the-shooter/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 22, 2014, 08:07:28 pm
A FOX News station in Baltimore was caught manipulating a story to make it appear that anti-police brutality demonstrators were chanting "kill a cop" when in fact they'd cut the final line.

“We’ve had four months of propaganda, starting with the president, that everybody should hate the police,” former Mayor Giuliani said on Fox News. “I don’t care how you want to describe it, that’s what those protests are all about.”

No, no, no. The demonstrations sparked by the exoneration of the officers who killed Brown and Garner were pro-accountability, not anti-police.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-protesters-arent-to-blame-for-nypd-officers-execution/2014/12/22/e758395a-8a16-11e4-a085-34e9b9f09a58_story.html




The tension between City Hall and the police union predates de Blasio by at least two decades. As former New York Times reporter David Firestone has noted, Union boss Lynch and the PBA attacked Mayor de Blasio’s three predecessors almost as vociferously. It may have seemed extraordinary when, earlier this month, the union began asking officers to sign a letter requesting that de Blasio not attend their funerals in the event they are killed in the line of duty. The union, though, tried a similar move in 1997, during Giuliani’s tenure.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/nypd_killings_new_york_city_s_largest_police_union_thinks_it_s_under_attack.html



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 22, 2014, 10:16:34 pm
There is a difference between supporting police officers and supporting the police union. The union uses strong arm and over the top statements to the press to bully politicians, especially Mayors. It is easy to believe the union has failed to get along with any of the previous three Mayors in New York.

The Tulsa FOP has not endorsed a single incumbent Mayor in my lifetime. None of them were good enough, ever. They don't get everything they want so they financially backed the challenger, always. Even when they get take home vehicles and a bigger pay raise than all other city workers (under Bill LaFortune) they still backed Randi Miller in the primary and Kathy Taylor in the general election.

I think the New York police union was out of line for making the statement that the killing of the two officers was in any way a blame on the Mayor. Just because de Blasio made a few statements about an officer killing a black man. He said it was troubling, and anyone who isn't drinking the "cops are always right" would agree. 

It is estimated that there are 1.1 million state and local police officers currently employed in the United States. To blindly say they all are perfect is as foolish a statement as possible.



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on December 22, 2014, 10:35:59 pm
There is a difference between supporting police officers and supporting the police union. The union uses strong arm and over the top statements to the press to bully politicians, especially Mayors.


Sounds like teachers unions, too. Not sure what the Tulsa FOP has to do with two assassinated police officers in New York.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 22, 2014, 10:50:39 pm
Sounds like teachers unions, too.

I don't disagree.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 23, 2014, 08:08:27 pm
There is a difference between supporting police officers and supporting the police union. The union uses strong arm and over the top statements to the press to bully politicians, especially Mayors. It is easy to believe the union has failed to get along with any of the previous three Mayors in New York.

The Tulsa FOP has not endorsed a single incumbent Mayor in my lifetime. None of them were good enough, ever. They don't get everything they want so they financially backed the challenger, always. Even when they get take home vehicles and a bigger pay raise than all other city workers (under Bill LaFortune) they still backed Randi Miller in the primary and Kathy Taylor in the general election.

I think the New York police union was out of line for making the statement that the killing of the two officers was in any way a blame on the Mayor. Just because de Blasio made a few statements about an officer killing a black man. He said it was troubling, and anyone who isn't drinking the "cops are always right" would agree.



Patrick Lynch is the 51-year-old president of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, the largest and most influential union of the New York City Police Department. You might recognize his name: Over the weekend, Lynch blamed Bill de Blasio for the Saturday deaths of two Brooklyn cops who were murdered by a lone gunman from Georgia. “That blood on the hands,” he said at a press conference, “starts on the steps of City Hall, in the office of the mayor.”

To understand why he would say something so wrong and inflammatory, you need to delve into Lynch’s long, checkered history of issuing similarly insane statements. His public declarations over the past 15 years are essentially pro-police agitprop: Cops can do no wrong, while victims of their state-sanctioned violence always had it coming. They are also a deep well of masculine anxiety, hurt feelings, and barely disguised racism.

Here are some of Lynch’s greatest hits. Please consult them whenever he opens his mouth in the future.

MORE:  http://gawker.com/nypd-union-president-patrick-lynch-is-completely-nuts-1674178970













http://gawker.com/new-yorks-law-enforcement-unions-are-filled-with-pathet-1673195224


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on December 24, 2014, 12:23:13 am


Patrick Lynch is the 51-year-old president of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, the largest and most influential union of the New York City Police Department. You might recognize his name: Over the weekend, Lynch blamed Bill de Blasio for the Saturday deaths of two Brooklyn cops who were murdered by a lone gunman from Georgia. “That blood on the hands,” he said at a press conference, “starts on the steps of City Hall, in the office of the mayor.”

To understand why he would say something so wrong and inflammatory, you need to delve into Lynch’s long, checkered history of issuing similarly insane statements. His public declarations over the past 15 years are essentially pro-police agitprop: Cops can do no wrong, while victims of their state-sanctioned violence always had it coming. They are also a deep well of masculine anxiety, hurt feelings, and barely disguised racism.

Here are some of Lynch’s greatest hits. Please consult them whenever he opens his mouth in the future.

MORE:  http://gawker.com/nypd-union-president-patrick-lynch-is-completely-nuts-1674178970



http://gawker.com/new-yorks-law-enforcement-unions-are-filled-with-pathet-1673195224

That's clever. I consult your posts when I need reminding of idiocy.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 26, 2014, 07:02:36 pm
That's clever. I consult your posts when I need reminding of idiocy.
u on the wrong side of history. 



(CNN) -- Some years ago I was the municipal prosecutor in a midsize New Jersey town. I had weekly "night court" duties, where we handled traffic violations, DUIs and other nonfelonies. I can say without reservation that during the years I worked as a prosecutor, I held the police in the highest regard and greatly trusted them. I felt this way for years after I stopped prosecuting.

But those feelings are gone. Don't get me wrong, I don't view the police as the enemy. I simply don't trust them like I once did. I no longer give them the benefit of the doubt, meaning I can now just as easily believe the suspect's version of the facts as the police officers. And I can easily believe allegations of police misconduct.

And here's what New York City police union leader Patrick Lynch and others like him in the New York Police Department don't get:  I'm not the exception. In fact, my views about police put me in the company of a growing number of Americans.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/22/opinion/obeidallah-police-killing/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Red Arrow on December 26, 2014, 08:07:12 pm
I had weekly "night court" duties, where we handled traffic violations, DUIs and other nonfelonies.

Night Court.  That was a fun TV series.
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086770/?ref_=fn_nm_nm_1a




Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 26, 2014, 08:48:15 pm
Night Court.  That was a fun TV series.
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086770/?ref_=fn_nm_nm_1a




(http://pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/richard_moll_bull_night_court_.jpg)



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Red Arrow on December 26, 2014, 10:28:22 pm
(http://pdxretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/richard_moll_bull_night_court_.jpg)

I think Markie Post was better looking.





Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 28, 2014, 03:06:26 am
I think Markie Post was better looking.


Can't disagree with you about

(https://fridayfunnylol.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/markiepost2.jpg)



 was just keeping things in line with NYC LEO comments.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 30, 2014, 07:49:02 pm
was just keeping things in line with NYC LEO comments.



With these acts of passive-aggressive contempt and self-pity, many New York police officers, led by their union, are squandering the department’s credibility, defacing its reputation, shredding its hard-earned respect. They have taken the most grave and solemn of civic moments — a funeral of a fallen colleague — and hijacked it for their own petty look-at-us gesture.

(...no) grievances can justify the snarling sense of victimhood that seems to be motivating the anti-de Blasio campaign — the belief that the department is never wrong, that it never needs redirection or reform, only reverence. This is the view peddled by union officials like Patrick Lynch, the president of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association — that cops are an ethically impeccable force with their own priorities and codes of behavior, accountable only to themselves, and whose reflexive defiance in the face of valid criticism is somehow normal.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/30/opinion/police-respect-squandered-in-attacks-on-de-blasio.html


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on December 30, 2014, 08:34:13 pm
Here's a police chief who takes "protect and serve" as a mandate to do so for all citizens. His department even served hot chocolate to protesters.

This is a longish piece on PINAC, but it includes several emails from the chief.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2014/12/worlds-greatest-police-chief-nashvilles-chief-anderson-gets-vote/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on December 31, 2014, 11:54:41 am
Here's a police chief who takes "protect and serve" as a mandate to do so for all citizens. His department even served hot chocolate to protesters.

This is a longish piece on PINAC, but it includes several emails from the chief.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2014/12/worlds-greatest-police-chief-nashvilles-chief-anderson-gets-vote/


When Chief Steve Anderson's letter went viral last week, it reminded me of the interrogation of 9/11 suspect Abu Jandal, who wasnt responding to waterboarding but rather to sugar-free cookies.  It was a matter of earning respect by showing it.

“the government needs to be, and is, somewhat flexible, especially in situations where there are minor violations of law. A government that had zero tolerance for even minor infractions would prove unworkable in short order.”

Compare Nashville PD's discretion to Tulsa leaders who "had no choice" but to deploy almost 50 officers and a helicopter from a half-dozen different agencies, to dogpile and pepper-spray a handful of peaceful protestors for violating a park curfew.

Merry Christmas, Chief Anderson, and thank you for giving us hope.

http://www.nashville.gov/News-Media/News-Article/ID/3605/A-Christmas-Message-for-the-MNPD-from-Chief-Steve-Anderson.aspx





Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 31, 2014, 07:49:36 pm
A funny thing happened in New York City last week: Cops stopped arresting people. Not altogether, of course—that would be anarchy. But since last Monday, the number of arrests in America's largest city plummeted by two-thirds compared to the previous year. The decline is a conscious slowdown by New York's police force to protest City Hall's perceived lack of support for law enforcement.
But the police union's phrasing—officers shouldn't make arrests "unless absolutely necessary"—begs the question: How many unnecessary arrests was the NYPD making before now?


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/the-benefits-of-fewer-nypd-arrests/384126/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 04, 2015, 08:22:54 pm
Random killings of NYPD Officers Liu and Ramos turned out to be a bigger tragedy than first imagined.
The unprovoked actions of a mental patient had not only a chilling effect on a much-needed movement towards police reform, but fanning the union-fed flames of paranoia over shootings of police has resulted shootings by police to skyrocket dramatically.

The response Lynch and some conservative commentators have had to the horrific killing of these two police officers and the alleged attempt to kill a woman is profoundly un-American. It is meant to chill any criticism or efforts to improve our country and only serves to divide an already deeply divided country and to increase tensions in an already tense time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-raushenbush/liu-ramos-garner-brown_2_b_6362468.html



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 04, 2015, 08:25:57 pm
(http://www.post-gazette.com/image/2015/01/04/ca0,147,600,747/chief0104.jpg)


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on January 10, 2015, 05:10:05 pm
Union Slowdown Leads To Apocalyptic Crime Wave In NYC
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/1ao4ds/new-yorkers-for-a-s--ttier-new-york

Marginaly NSFW


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 11, 2015, 06:09:59 pm
Acerbic-tongued comedian and HBO talk show host Bill Maher blasted the NYPD and the city’s police unions Friday, calling cops “New York’s Whiniest” for participating in a work slowdown and turning their backs on Mayor de Blasio at funerals for two fallen officers.

“When did the NYPD start suffering from PMS?” Maher asked as he wrapped up his show “Real Time With Bill Maher.”

“Seriously, if our deal with the police is that we have to constantly reassure them how much we love them unless they throw a tantrum, we're not supporting them," he said. "We're dating them,"

Maher, who claims he supports the police, lambasted the NYPD for what he called a “virtual work stoppage to teach Bill de Blasio a lesson for not saying he loves them enough.”

“The cops were already furious with the mayor for not endorsing their novel crime-prevention tactic of choking random citizens to death. But purposely not doing your job? Turning your back to him at funerals? What did de Blasio do — get caught in a video with Ice Cube singing f--- the police?”

Maher admitted that the cops have a dirty job — but, hey, they volunteered for it, he said.

“It’s like a proctologist coming home every night, saying, ‘I can’t believe I have to look at a------- all day,” Maher said. “I do support the police and I understand their job is to look at a------- all day, but something outrageous has been going on in the Big Apple in the last couple of weeks.”











It's Patrick Lynch, Not Mayor De Blasio, from Whom an Apology Is Due.

If PBA President Patrick Lynch's words and conduct weren't so incendiary, his words and conduct would be laughable. Rather than laughable, however, they are shameful and they are explosive. Mr. Lynch outlandishly asserted that Mayor De Blasio is anti-cop and that he has thrown the New York City police officers under the bus. Worse yet, he said that the mayor has the blood of the recently murdered New York City police officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu on his hands.

Are you kidding me, Mr. Lynch? And, then, on top of that you want the mayor to apologize to you and your membership. It is you, PBA union President Patrick Lynch, from whom an apology is due to the City of New York.

Mayor de Blasio never ran for Mayor of the City on an "anti-police" platform; once elected, Mayor de Blasio has never thrown police officers under the bus; and Mayor de Blasio most certainly does not have blood of the fallen officers on his hands. So, Mayor de Blasio does not owe New York City police officers an apology; and the repeated statements by police union officials that the mayor does owe police officers an apology is utter nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-meyerson/it-is-you-pba-union-presi_b_6445404.html




Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 14, 2015, 08:06:21 pm
The NYPD Slowdown’s Dirty Little Secret

Cutting off low level arrests was supposed to be a bargaining tactic for police officers in New York, but not all of them want the slowdown to end.

The police slowdown in New York, where cops have virtually stopped making certain types of low-level arrests, might be coming to an end soon. For a lot of police officers, it’ll be an unhappy moment, because they never liked making the penny ante collars in the first place.

“We’re coming out of what was a pretty widespread stoppage of certain types of activity, the discretionary type of activity by and large,” police commissioner Bill Bratton told NPR’s Robert Siegel in an interview Friday.

In the rank and file of the police department, there are mixed feelings about the slowdown and a possible return to the status quo.

“I’d break it down like this,” an officer in East Harlem told The Daily Beast. “20 percent of the department is very active, they’d arrest their mothers if they could, and they want to get back to work. Another 20 percent doesn’t want any activity period; they’d be happy to hide and nap all day.”

The officer added, “And then there’s the great middle that thinks things are fine now as far as their concerned and all they want is good arrests.”

The not good arrests, by implication, were all the low level infractions policed as part of the so-called “Broken Windows” approach to law enforcement, defended by both Bratton and Mayor de Blasio. It holds that one of the ways to bust high-level crooks is to crack down on seemingly minor crimes.

Between December 29 2014—January 4 2015, arrests across New York city dropped by 56 percent and summonses were down 92 percent compared to the same time last year.

It’s not novel to point out that the police slowdown, which pitted the police and their unions against city hall, granted one of the central demands of the #blacklivesmatter protestors—an end to Broken Windows policing.

Less noted though, is how many police officers are themselves ambivalent about actively enforcing low level offenses, and how that bodes for the post-slowdown future of policing in New York.

Retired NYPD lieutenant Steve Osborne made the point in an op-ed for the New York Times that was sharply critical of both de Blasio and the protestors.

    “I have to suspend my disbelief,” the officer in East Harlem said, “to see how sentencing a guy with an open container is going to really bring crime down.”

“More police productivity has meant far less crime, but at a certain point New York began to feel like, yes, a police state, and the police don’t like it any more than you,” Osborne wrote.

“The time has probably come for the Police Department to ease up on the low-level ‘broken-windows’ stuff while re-evaluating the impact it may or may not have on real, serious crime,” he added. “No one will welcome this more than the average cop on the beat, who has been pressed to find crime where so much less of it exists.”

Day to day, no one has been telling police officers in New York how not to do their jobs.

“It sounds very unusual,” the officer in East Harlem said, “but I haven’t seen any coordinated activity besides the union putting the message out and then saying jump.”

It hasn’t taken much effort to coordinate the slowdown because, as Osborne notes, average beat cops were never that excited in the first place with going after public urination and loitering arrests. To them, it was a distraction from stopping more serious crimes.

Broken Windows advocates argue that some cops always resisted more active policing. When Broken Windows was first introduced, they say, police officers had to be pushed, by Bratton among other, to adopt the active policing approach that brought crime down to its current historic lows in new York.

But as New York got safer, the methods rather than the results became the measures of success. More arrests meant better policing as the tail started to wag the dog.

Bratton himself has said nearly as much in criticizing his predecessor Ray Kelly’s overuse of the controversial stop and frisk tactic that overwhelmingly targeted minorities.

“The commissioner and the former mayor did a great job in the sense of keeping the community safe, keeping crime down, but one of the tools used to do that, I believe, was used too extensively,” Bratton said in March 2014.

Stop and Frisks have fallen considerably since their high in 2011 when 685,724 New Yorkers were stopped by police, but some numbers driven approaches remain embedded in the department.

As a detective in the Bronx tells The Daily Beast, “there technically are no quotas” in the police department “but you can call them what you want, “productivity goals,” they are back door quotas.”

And those back door quotas can put pressure on officers.

“I have to suspend my disbelief,” the officer in East Harlem said, “to see how sentencing a guy with an open container is going to really bring crime down.”

“Violent crimes haven’t gotten worse in my little slice of heaven despite the slowdown on summonses and misdemeanors,” the officer added. “We’re still responding to robbery patterns. We haven’t gone down in presence for the more serious offenses.”

He acknowledged that it was too soon to say how such a policing strategy would play out over an extended period. “Whether it works will reveal itself over time. That remains to be seen.”

Once New York is out of the slowdown, it’s not clear what kind of policing the city will see on the other side. Will Bratton push the police to bring arrests back up to levels before they dropped off or will the department test its ability to back off?

Maybe there will be some new middle ground possible despite the bluster and rhetoric. According to The Daily News, the combative president of the police union is pushing for just a slowdown that’s a little bit faster. As one police source told the paper, “He said they should go back to at least 50% of what they used to do.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/10/the-nypd-slowdown-s-dirty-little-secret.html





Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 29, 2015, 10:40:32 pm
(http://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10704111_10153095953318189_154560208317790464_n.jpg?oh=faeac7da07aae2a026d8f4c9bc899e10&oe=554F7BFA)


DENVER (AP) — A teenage passenger who was in a car when a 17-year-old girl was shot and killed by Denver police has disputed authorities' account of her death, saying officers opened fire before one of them was struck by the vehicle.

The officers came up to the car from behind and fired four times into the driver's side window as they stood on the side of the car, narrowly missing others inside, the passenger said.

Police said in a statement that the two officers then "approached the vehicle on foot when the driver drove the car into one of the officers," who then "feared for their lives."


Monday's shooting was the fourth time in seven months that Denver police have shot drivers after officers said a car was being used as a weapon.

One witness reported that the officer was not hit until after shots were fired and Hernandez lost control of the vehicle because she had been struck by a bullet.

In the department's use-of-force policy, officers are discouraged from shooting at moving vehicles unless the auto poses a threat of death or serious injury and when there is no reasonable alternative that would prevent serious injury or death.

"Firing at a moving vehicle may have very little impact on stopping the vehicle," the policy says. "Disabling the driver may result in an uncontrolled vehicle, and the likelihood of injury to the occupants of the vehicle (who may not be involved in the crime) may be increased when the vehicle is either out of control or shots are fired into the passenger compartment."


Nationally, police departments for years have considered cars to be deadly weapons when they are driven toward officers, said Geoff Alpert, a University of South Carolina professor who studies use of force.  Officers have been found to have placed themselves in the path of moving vehicles for the express purpose of justifying the use of force.  

But there is a changing philosophy among policing experts to prohibit officers from shooting at moving vehicles.

In April, the U.S. Department of Justice recommended the Albuquerque Police Department change its use-of-force policy to prohibit officers from firing at moving vehicles, according to its letter to the city after an investigation into the department.

In 2011, the Police Executive Research Forum also recommended that the Albuquerque department change its policy, saying the practice put officers and citizens at a higher risk of harm.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2015, 01:01:50 am
Should I put sugar in my poultry brine?


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 01, 2015, 02:35:03 am
Should I put sugar in my poultry brine?

That or you can use this as a dry rub.  ;)

http://store.nosoc.com/joes-stuff-21-oz/ (http://store.nosoc.com/joes-stuff-21-oz/)


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2015, 03:13:05 pm
That or you can use this as a dry rub.  ;)

http://store.nosoc.com/joes-stuff-21-oz/ (http://store.nosoc.com/joes-stuff-21-oz/)

Thanks for the hint. In other news, a trooper was killed. BIG yawn coming from a few in this forum.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahoma-highway-patrol-trooper-killed-one-more-injured-while-responding/article_3145d3c3-6efb-567f-a0a7-9101b04c7478.html


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 01, 2015, 06:55:41 pm
Number Of Officers Killed In The Line Of Duty Drops To 50-Year Low While Number Of Citizens Killed By Cops Remains Unchanged


The go-to phrase deployed by police officers, district attorneys and other law enforcement-related entities to justify the use of excessive force or firing dozens of bullets into a single suspect is "the officer(s) feared for his/her safety." There is no doubt being a police officer can be dangerous. But is it as dangerous as this oft-deployed justification makes it appear?

    The annual report from the nonprofit National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund also found that deaths in the line of duty generally fell by 8 percent and were the fewest since 1959.

    According to the report, 111 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers were killed in the line of duty nationwide this past year, compared to 121 in 2012.

    Forty-six officers were killed in traffic related accidents, and 33 were killed by firearms. The number of firearms deaths fell 33 percent in 2013 and was the lowest since 1887.

This statistical evidence suggests being a cop is safer than its been since the days of Sheriff Andy Griffith. Back in 2007, the FBI put the number of justifiable homicides committed by officers in the line of duty at 391. That count only includes homicides that occurred during the commission of a felony. This total doesn't include justifiable homicides committed by police officers against people not committing felonies and also doesn't include homicides found to be not justifiable. But still, this severe undercount far outpaces the number of cops killed by civilians.

We should expect the number to always skew in favor of the police. After all, they are fighting crime and will run into dangerous criminals who may respond violently. But to continually claim that officers "fear for their safety" is to ignore the statistical evidence that says being a cop is the safest it's been in years -- and in more than a century when it comes to firearms-related deaths.

So, the excuses -- and the justifiable homicides -- mount. Even as the job becomes safer for police officers and crime stats continue to drop from their mid-1990s highs, the rate of annual deaths at the hands of law enforcement remains unchanged. According to statistics from the Bureau of Justice, 4,813 people die while being arrested by police officers. 60% of those were homicides.

Look at Seattle. As Reason points out, 20% of its 2013 homicides were committed by police officers -- 6 out of 29 total. A city with nearly 650,000 residents (and an infinite amount of chances to kill each other) only managed to outpace the city's ~1,800 officers by a 5-to-1 ratio. One homicide per 300 officers versus one homicide per 22,000 residents. Again, being a criminal shortens your lifespan, and officers will more often find themselves in dangerous situations, but the disparity here is enormous.

Efforts have been made over the past several years to make things safer for police officers. The ubiquitous use of bulletproof vests has contributed to this decrease in firearms-related deaths, as has a variety of policies aimed at reducing high-speed chases. But very little effort has been made to decrease the number of people killed by law enforcement. (Notably, Seattle's police chief attributes the high homicide numbers to not "effectively managing" interactions with people with mental health issues.) Some deaths are nearly impossible to prevent, but there are others where the situation has been allowed to deteriorate far too quickly or a shoot-first mentality has prevailed. The escalating adoption of military equipment and tactics has also contributed to the steady "justifiable homicide" count.

I'm aware that statistical aggregation isn't the same thing as moment-to-moment reality. Just because you're less likely to be shot today than at any other time in the past 100+ years doesn't mean today isn't your day. But the narrative push by officers to present their job as persistently deadly doesn't jibe with the death totals. The First Rule of Policing ("get home safe") is a crutch for bad cops. Cops are getting home safe now more than ever. It's those on the other side of the blue line that haven't seen their chances improve.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2015, 07:19:33 pm
You read it here. Vashta is telling us that not enough police are dying to give a damn...


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: cynical on February 01, 2015, 07:34:17 pm
What I read here was the first person to mention it expressed not one iota of sadness or sympathy for the family and friends of the trooper who lost his life. His death was only a chance to take a cheap political shot. I hope the trooper's family don't read this forum.

I might have to surrender my screen name to you, Guido. You really outdid yourself this time.

You read it here. Vashta is telling us that not enough police are dying to give a damn...


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2015, 08:58:58 pm
What I read here was the first person to mention it expressed not one iota of sadness or sympathy for the family and friends of the trooper who lost his life. His death was only a chance to take a cheap political shot. I hope the trooper's family don't read this forum.

I might have to surrender my screen name to you, Guido. You really outdid yourself this time.

Yeah. Because I have a huge history for showing no sympathy for those who serve this country... ::)  And look at this thread this is posted in.



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 01, 2015, 09:16:55 pm
You read it here. Vashta is telling us that not enough police are dying to give a damn...


Noooo....a n d  y o u  k n o w  b e t t e r ....  spelling it out slowly so you can understand....  it means that too many civilians on the other side are dying and not enough people are giving a damn.  



Must be all that lawyer school stuff that blurs the thinking and interferes with the thought process - after all, who but a lawyer dressed up as a judge (Kurt Glassco) would tell a guy making a confession, "No, I don't accept that - you are gonna have to continue your normal life for 10 years while we watch you carefully to make sure you don't get drunk and try to kill someone again..."

But then, the guy confessing wasn't a poor black guy - he was an entitled, connected white guy....



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on February 01, 2015, 09:44:41 pm

Noooo....a n d  y o u  k n o w  b e t t e r ....  spelling it out slowly so you can understand....  it means that too many civilians on the other side are dying and not enough people are giving a damn.  



Must be all that lawyer school stuff that blurs the thinking and interferes with the thought process - after all, who but a lawyer dressed up as a judge (Kurt Glassco) would tell a guy making a confession, "No, I don't accept that - you are gonna have to continue your normal life for 10 years while we watch you carefully to make sure you don't get drunk and try to kill someone again..."

But then, the guy confessing wasn't a poor black guy - he was an entitled, connected white guy....



I know what that guy means. Trust me. And if you are worrying about the "other side", by all means give the biggest damn you want. I encourage it. Just don't crap on those that keep us safe in the process.



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 02, 2015, 09:12:05 am
I know what that guy means. Trust me. And if you are worrying about the "other side", by all means give the biggest damn you want. I encourage it. Just don't crap on those that keep us safe in the process.




I don't crap on anyone who is truly trying to keep us safe in the process.  Never have.  Never will.


And I also don't feel at all safe with the recent past and current DA office regime and Judge Glassco's selective law enforcement.  Wonder how you would feel about those two offices if someone tried to kill one of your kids - by pointing an assault rifle at one and pulling the trigger from about 65 feet - and that person was given a pass because he was related to someone of entitlement??  Would YOU feel "safe"??  (I know the answer even if you won't admit it here, deep down inside you know the truth.)

As a side note to that - the Broken Arrow Police Department did a great job on the case and during follow up contacts, while no direct comments ensued, there was obviously frustration that all their good work was dismissed out of hand by the powers that be....  Tim Harris' office and Judge Glassco.  And yet, the people of this county still voted back the same old clique....



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on February 02, 2015, 02:16:36 pm

I don't crap on anyone who is truly trying to keep us safe in the process.  Never have.  Never will.


And I also don't feel at all safe with the recent past and current DA office regime and Judge Glassco's selective law enforcement.  Wonder how you would feel about those two offices if someone tried to kill one of your kids - by pointing an assault rifle at one and pulling the trigger from about 65 feet - and that person was given a pass because he was related to someone of entitlement??  Would YOU feel "safe"??  (I know the answer even if you won't admit it here, deep down inside you know the truth.)

As a side note to that - the Broken Arrow Police Department did a great job on the case and during follow up contacts, while no direct comments ensued, there was obviously frustration that all their good work was dismissed out of hand by the powers that be....  Tim Harris' office and Judge Glassco.  And yet, the people of this county still voted back the same old clique....



I believe in accountability. Believe me. That is not what this thread is about. This thread is about broad stroking the entire profession. And now, of course, it's about local judicial officials.



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 03, 2015, 10:46:41 pm
Just don't crap on those that keep us safe in the process.



Cheer up, the guy shot in the back died:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/man-shot-by-oklahoma-highway-patrol-trooper-in-january-dies/article_3a0000b7-13fe-5b08-b9d6-21067ab118c6.html


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 04, 2015, 09:20:59 am
I believe in accountability. Believe me. That is not what this thread is about. This thread is about broad stroking the entire profession. And now, of course, it's about local judicial officials.




They are all interconnected - as in law enforcement and the selective lack thereof.  Equal protection under the law.....unless one happens to have a Daddy who is "Good Buddies" (in the trucker sense of the phrase) with the power structure.  Then attempted murder is just another one of those good ole Okie traditions of "boys will be boys..."   A lot like drunk driving in this state...






Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 24, 2017, 10:43:03 pm
I believe in accountability. Believe me. That is not what this thread is about. This thread is about broad stroking the entire profession. And now, of course, it's about local judicial officials.

The thread is about people "keeping you safe" getting away with negligent homicide.

Its about squirming out of accountability for being heavy-handed, then being thin-skinned when someone points a finger at abuses.


The Moore Police Department is one of several parties asking a federal judge to punish the widow of a man who died in a scuffle with police in front of the Warren Theatre for posting an angry video on Facebook.
http://newsok.com/widows-video-has-moore-police-accusing-her-of-inciting-violence/article/5535237

“I am desperate, I need help,” she said in the video, which she posted to the "Justice for Luis Rodriguez Not in Vain" Facebook page. "Please, I need help. Can somebody out there, out of this state of Oklahoma help me?"
Nair Rodriguez now survives on food stamps and lives with relatives. She said she plans to sell her car in order to finance a return to her native Puerto Rico while waiting on the outcome of her lawsuit.

In a cellphone video Nair Rodriguez took the night her husband died, Luis Rodriguez can be heard saying "I can't breathe" while police held him down.




Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on April 11, 2017, 12:50:37 am
The thread is about people "keeping you safe" getting away with negligent homicide.

Its about squirming out of accountability for being heavy-handed, then being thin-skinned when someone points a finger at abuses.


The Moore Police Department is one of several parties asking a federal judge to punish the widow of a man who died in a scuffle with police in front of the Warren Theatre for posting an angry video on Facebook.
http://newsok.com/widows-video-has-moore-police-accusing-her-of-inciting-violence/article/5535237

“I am desperate, I need help,” she said in the video, which she posted to the "Justice for Luis Rodriguez Not in Vain" Facebook page. "Please, I need help. Can somebody out there, out of this state of Oklahoma help me?"
Nair Rodriguez now survives on food stamps and lives with relatives. She said she plans to sell her car in order to finance a return to her native Puerto Rico while waiting on the outcome of her lawsuit.

In a cellphone video Nair Rodriguez took the night her husband died, Luis Rodriguez can be heard saying "I can't breathe" while police held him down.




I take it you never read any of the pleadings or court filings in this case, or otherwise know what the evidence that has been developed. Right? You read a news article.



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 15, 2017, 05:42:27 pm
I take it you never read any of the pleadings or court filings in this case, or otherwise know what the evidence that has been developed. Right? You read a news article.

I post links.  You?


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Hoss on April 15, 2017, 05:56:00 pm
I post links.  You?

He's just the master A/V guy...you know, like the pimply faced guy in 10th grade who covets the new 16mm projector?


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on April 15, 2017, 11:11:04 pm
I post links.  You?

Um. I actually read briefs on file, court orders, discovery that has attached to documents and filed with the court, etc. which cannot be posted without some effort (which I choose not to do). But by all means, keep posting your links...


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Ed W on April 15, 2017, 11:36:03 pm
Wait. We live in a post-expertise world now, where uninformed opinions that have no factual support are equally valid as those with extensive education and experience. C'mon, Guido. Get with the program. You're letting your side down.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on April 16, 2017, 12:33:24 am
Wait. We live in a post-expertise world now, where uninformed opinions that have no factual support are equally valid as those with extensive education and experience. C'mon, Guido. Get with the program. You're letting your side down.

I'm sorry. I thought I would get my information from the actual source and not from folks with agendas to advance or that only know about 1/4 of the story. You know, the media. I will do better in the future. :)

edited. I will add that what I did read from both sides in the court record is well-written stuff. kudos.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 29, 2017, 09:32:50 pm
Passing The Trash.  That's at least 11 departments that didnt care whom(or what) they were hiring to be a cop.


Transient officer charged with hitting, killing kids with car
MIAMI (AP) - Polk County Sheriff's Deputy Jonathan "JJ" Quintana told reporters that he assumed the worst as he saw the carnage left when a suspected drunken
driver hit five Dundee Ridge Middle Academy students as they walked home. One student later died of his injuries.
Quintana saw a black vehicle had hit another car about 4,000 feet down the road. The driver then stumbled out of the vehicle. A woman who was four months pregnant was injured in that crash, according to authorities.

Quintana arrested John Camfield, 48, of nearby Davenport, a law enforcement officer who worked for more than 10 different agencies in Mississippi before moving to Florida in 2012.

Officials said Jahiem Robertson, 13, died of his injuries Friday morning in an Orlando hospital. Another child, John Mena, also 13, remains in intensive care with head fractures. Three other children - Jonte Robinson, 15; Jasmine Robertson, 14; and Rylan Pryce, 12 - suffered injuries.

Sheriff Grady Judd said Camfield refused to take a breath test after his arrest and was "critiquing" the deputies who were processing his case.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: TeeDub on April 30, 2017, 10:35:20 am

If you are going to post from an article, might as well post it all..

In fact, Judd added, Camfield was being somewhat lighthearted until a lieutenant advised him that two of the children he hit were in critical condition.

“He said, if that’s the case, put me under the jail,” Judd said.

At that point, he agreed to take a breath test and a blood draw.


http://nypost.com/2017/04/28/drunk-driver-hits-5-kids-at-bus-stop-killing-boy-cops/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 01, 2017, 06:42:12 pm
If you are going to post from an article, might as well post it all..


You obfuscate the point.  Why did he skate through eleven different police departments before finally killing kids?

"Passing the trash" (http://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/03/27/passing-the-trash-deals-allow-bad-teachers-and-coaches-to-become-mobile-molestors/) refers to public sector employees who are allowed to quietly move onto another community in lieu of going to jail when caught committing crimes like sexual assault.  It's historically referred to bad players in education but ports over easily to describe how unions shield bad cops.

There needs to be a registry so communities arent left in the dark about the new guy with the gun and the badge and the attitude.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: TeeDub on May 01, 2017, 10:06:41 pm
Everybody passes the trash.

It's what you do.

Heck look at Hillary moving to New York and not even having residence there.   Or any athlete ever.   People move.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on July 05, 2017, 01:31:44 pm
 Another police officer assassinated in New York. Vashta is reportedly heading up to New York to protest that the assassin was gun down and not treated fairly.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Townsend on July 06, 2017, 11:26:43 am
Another police officer assassinated in New York. Vashta is reportedly heading up to New York to protest that the assassin was gun down and not treated fairly.

A little surprised you're making light of this.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 06, 2017, 12:18:33 pm
A little surprised you're making light of this.


Why surprised??




Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: rebound on July 06, 2017, 12:37:11 pm
I can't believe this one didn't make this thread:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/race_a_factor_in_off-duty_blac.html (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/race_a_factor_in_off-duty_blac.html)

Given that the main issue of the recent postings seem to be related to white cops going off half-cocked (Pun intended. Don't want to make light of this, but couldn't resist) on black suspects, this this one is both comical and sad at the same time. Fortunately, the off-duty cop was not killed.

"When the off-duty officer who lived nearby heard the commotion and arrived at the scene Wednesday night to help, two on-duty officers ordered him to the ground but then recognized him and told him to stand up and walk toward them. As he was doing so, another officer arrived and shot the off-duty officer "apparently not recognizing" him, police said."


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on July 06, 2017, 03:12:52 pm
A little surprised you're making light of this.

Not surprised that is what you thought. Sad


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on July 06, 2017, 05:45:36 pm
I can't believe this one didn't make this thread:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/race_a_factor_in_off-duty_blac.html (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/race_a_factor_in_off-duty_blac.html)

Given that the main issue of the recent postings seem to be related to white cops going off half-cocked (Pun intended. Don't want to make light of this, but couldn't resist) on black suspects, this this one is both comical and sad at the same time. Fortunately, the off-duty cop was not killed.

"When the off-duty officer who lived nearby heard the commotion and arrived at the scene Wednesday night to help, two on-duty officers ordered him to the ground but then recognized him and told him to stand up and walk toward them. As he was doing so, another officer arrived and shot the off-duty officer "apparently not recognizing" him, police said."

or this one:

The officers’ narratives contradict what can be seen on police dashcam video, in which the teenager spins after he was shot and falls to the ground — seemingly incapacitated — as the officer continues to fire shot after shot (16 in all) into his body. The indictment further alleges that officers lied when they said McDonald ignored Van Dyke’s verbal commands and that one of the officers signed off on a report that claimed the other two officers were, in fact, victims of an attack by McDonald.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/3-chicago-police-officers-indicted-in-laquan-mcdonald-case/2017/06/27/ee4c8bc6-5b97-11e7-aa69-3964a7d55207_story.html


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Townsend on July 07, 2017, 11:17:13 am
Not surprised that is what you thought. Sad

It is sad.  You shouldn't use someone's death to put a dig on another poster.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Hoss on July 07, 2017, 12:23:07 pm
It is sad.  You shouldn't use someone's death to put a dig on another poster.

I guess you've forgotten in his long absence how he is.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on July 07, 2017, 10:29:08 pm
Not surprised that is what you thought. Sad


Its getting easier to see where citizens might feel the justice system is failing them.

Mistrial declared for third time for cop accused of killing daughter's black boyfriend
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/shannon-kepler-mistrial-accused-killing-jeremey-lake


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on July 08, 2017, 11:59:47 am
It is sad.  You shouldn't use someone's death to put a dig on another poster.

Are you kidding me? Vashta's mission is to run down our police at every possible opportunity. I am sick of it, and I will call it out.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on July 08, 2017, 12:01:46 pm

Its getting easier to see where citizens might feel the justice system is failing them.

Mistrial declared for third time for cop accused of killing daughter's black boyfriend
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/shannon-kepler-mistrial-accused-killing-jeremey-lake

That damned right to a fair trial thing keeps getting in the way of a successful justice system.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on July 08, 2017, 01:08:33 pm
That damned right to a fair trial thing keeps getting in the way of a successful justice system.

Now if we could only have one where the verdict isnt determined at jury selection.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: guido911 on July 08, 2017, 01:41:18 pm
Now if we could only have one where the verdict isnt determined at jury selection.


That works both ways.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: rebound on July 10, 2017, 08:38:56 am
Guido (or anybody who might have closer knowledge of this than me),  I'd really like to understand the crux of these mistrials.   I watched this last one a little more closely, and it seems to me that it all comes down to whether another gun existed.  Holding all the ancillary details aside, we know he:

(a) Has major issues with his daughter
(b) Figures out where she is
(c) Drives, armed, to that location
(d) Confronts boyfriend in street
(e) Shoots boyfriend
(f) leaves scene

He claims later to have seen a gun.  No such gun was ever found, and no witnesses suggest the boyfriend owned or had a gun.   

So from the outside, if there is no gun, he's guilty.  If there is a gun, he's not.   Is that the gist of it?

And remember, this girl was 18.  Legally an adult. So really, he had no legal right to aggressively intervene, anyway.    I also have a 18 YO daughter.  If a similar situation happens and I arm up and go confront her and her boyfriend and end up shooting him, not only would it be wrong but I'm almost certainly going to be found guilty of something.  What am I missing here?

 


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on July 10, 2017, 09:54:35 am
Guido (or anybody who might have closer knowledge of this than me),  I'd really like to understand the crux of these mistrials.   I watched this last one a little more closely, and it seems to me that it all comes down to whether another gun existed.  Holding all the ancillary details aside, we know he:

(a) Has major issues with his daughter
(b) Figures out where she is
(c) Drives, armed, to that location
(d) Confronts boyfriend in street
(e) Shoots boyfriend
(f) leaves scene

He claims later to have seen a gun.  No such gun was ever found, and no witnesses suggest the boyfriend owned or had a gun.  

So from the outside, if there is no gun, he's guilty.  If there is a gun, he's not.   Is that the gist of it?

And remember, this girl was 18.  Legally an adult. So really, he had no legal right to aggressively intervene, anyway.    I also have a 18 YO daughter.  If a similar situation happens and I arm up and go confront her and her boyfriend and end up shooting him, not only would it be wrong but I'm almost certainly going to be found guilty of something.  What am I missing here?
  

"The argument pretty much was, there's not a definitive answer of whether or not Jeremey Lake had a gun or not," he said. "Nobody other than the person that's sitting on trial for first-degree murder was the only person that said Jeremey Lake had a gun."
http://www.newson6.com/story/35851523/he-shouldnt-be-walking-free-hes-guilty-kepler-juror-says


The allegation that the victim had a gun was essential to prop up a self-defense narrative, but Kepler was convicted on a minor charge for also shooting at witnesses (including his own daughter) so that defense is BS.


...officer said he fled the scene after the shooting in part because he did not want to be taken in for questioning without an attorney present. He also expressed concern about his safety because spectators began gathering around the shooting site and he ran out of bullets in the revolver.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/shannon-kepler-defends-leaving-scene-after-shooting-daughter-s-boyfriend/article_72c28a97-afef-5457-b9e8-107bcee22ebe.html


Tulsa Police Officer Shannon Kepler convicted of manslaughter
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/former-tulsa-police-officer-shannon-kepler-convicted-of-manslaughter/article_6317fe90-68ef-55d1-b3dc-287d5342f35e.html


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 10, 2017, 10:26:07 am
Are you kidding me? Vashta's mission is to run down our police at every possible opportunity. I am sick of it, and I will call it out.


If you had been paying attention, his mission is to run down criminal police at every possible opportunity.   Big difference.  Your blanket statement is projection - you trying to attribute to him the characteristic that you are accusing him of...with that over-generalization.  Fake Fox News Sound Bite methodology.     Bazinga!  Called out!



And this case just highlights how tough it is to get some people to hold the police accountable no matter how egregious and obviously criminal their behaviour.  Remember Rodney King.  And the reaction to that for O J Simpson?    Or to paraphrase, one heinous act deserves another...!





Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: TeeDub on July 10, 2017, 01:17:01 pm

If you had been paying attention, his mission is to run down criminal police at every possible opportunity.   Big difference.  Your blanket statement is projection - you trying to attribute to him the characteristic that you are accusing him of...with that over-generalization.  Fake Fox News Sound Bite methodology.     Bazinga!  Called out!


No, I'm pretty sure he just likes running down any police.   There are several instances where he has quoted out of context and provided one side of an argument to make it look like the police were the bad guys.    Not that some aren't bad, but there were a few that were way off base.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 10, 2017, 01:32:25 pm
Hey, Vash....  you running down cops as a whole and every chance you get?  


If so, you are way wrong.



I will say that police are the most obvious symptom of our failures as human beings!   Kind of a "Captain Obvious" comment, I know...



 


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 01, 2017, 09:38:10 am
And then there is this example of police excess....  

Nothing will come from this either.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/ar-AAr4UTh



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: swake on September 01, 2017, 10:25:02 am
And then there is this example of police excess....  

Nothing will come from this either.


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/ar-AAr4UTh



All those cops need to be fired. Not just the one that assaulted and arrested the nurse, he needs to be fired and charged with several crimes. The others let it happen and should be fired as well. Send a message. We have a huge problem with the attitude and behavior of police in this country. They act above the law they are supposed to enforce, they shoot first and resort to violence as a habit when dealing with the public. It has to stop.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on September 01, 2017, 11:40:23 am
All those cops need to be fired. Not just the one that assaulted and arrested the nurse, he needs to be fired and charged with several crimes. The others let it happen and should be fired as well. Send a message. We have a huge problem with the attitude and behavior of police in this country. They act above the law they are supposed to enforce, they shoot first and resort to violence as a habit when dealing with the public. It has to stop.

Its sad that with all the cops present, not one "good apple" spoke in favor of the one person who was obeying the law.

NURSE: The patient can’t consent, he’s told me repeatedly that he doesn’t have a warrant, and the patient is not under arrest,” she says. “So I’m just trying to do what I’m supposed to do, that’s all.”

Here is the assault and battery of that medical professional:  https://www.youtube.com/watch

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/31/utah-nurse-arrested-after-complying-with-hospital-policy-that-bars-taking-blood-from-unconscious-victim/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 01, 2017, 12:53:58 pm
It's because despite the relentless drumbeat and propaganda, we are not a country of law in way to many cases.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on September 03, 2017, 10:34:15 am
It's because despite the relentless drumbeat and propaganda, we are not a country of law in way to many cases.

We look to men and women in uniform to protect our civil liberties. In this case, the woman in uniform happened to be wearing nursing scrubs.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/02/gehrke-the-outrageous-arrest-of-a-nurse-exposed-salt-lake-city-police-for-having-bizarrely-out-of-date-policies/


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 05, 2017, 10:16:00 am
We look to men and women in uniform to protect our civil liberties. In this case, the woman in uniform happened to be wearing nursing scrubs.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/02/gehrke-the-outrageous-arrest-of-a-nurse-exposed-salt-lake-city-police-for-having-bizarrely-out-of-date-policies/




I guess she should just consider herself lucky they didn't go ahead and shoot her.  The guys Lt told him to arrest her...?   How high does the stupid have to go before someone notices?



Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 05, 2017, 01:26:36 pm
That pesky 4th Amendment getting in the way of the government prosecuting it's citizens. 

Blame ignorant police and a cowardly Supreme Court.  The Court addressed this issue - in this instance it appears likely they should have just gotten a warrant.  But the Court should have made a much easier test for everyone to follow.  Instead, the Court basically said that always requiring a warrant  is too cumbersome, but you should get a warrant for a blood test except when you don't have to.  Again, it appears in this situation the police they should have just gotten a warrant.  Or, when in doubt you'd think they'd want to err on the side of protecting constitutional rights (if for no other reason than to protect the case against whomever).

Certainly when the person the government is ordering to take a sample refuses to because procedure won't allow it - arresting them seems to be a strange reaction.

Quote
Respondents have offered no satisfactory justification for demanding the more intrusive alternative without a warrant. In instances where blood tests might be preferable—e.g., where substances other than alcohol impair the driver’s ability to operate a car safely, or where the subject is unconscious—nothing prevents the police from seeking a warrant or from relying on the exigent circumstances exception if it applies.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1468_8n59.pdf


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on September 05, 2017, 01:32:32 pm

I guess she should just consider herself lucky they didn't go ahead and shoot her.  The guys Lt told him to arrest her...?   How high does the stupid have to go before someone notices?


There on paid vacation suspension now, but initially the detective was just pulled off the blood-draw team.  

The hospital knew he would be right back at it in six months, so they decided to be proactive:

Utah hospital bars police from contact with nurses after ‘appalling’ arrest
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/04/utah-hospital-bars-cops-from-contact-with-nurses-after-appalling-arrest


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Townsend on September 06, 2017, 11:16:52 am

The hospital knew he would be right back at it in six months, so they decided to be proactive:

Utah hospital bars police from contact with nurses after ‘appalling’ arrest
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/04/utah-hospital-bars-cops-from-contact-with-nurses-after-appalling-arrest

That's really F'd up that a hospital has to protect its nursing staff from police officers.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on October 11, 2017, 08:53:49 am
That's really F'd up that a hospital has to protect its nursing staff from police officers.

Follow up:  One fired, another demoted, and the fatal high-speed chase that triggered it all buried.

Footage ‘tells the truth,’ Utah nurse says after the SLC officer who arrested her was fired

“I will say that the level of scrutiny that this case received would not have been the case had there been no bodycam footage,” Wubbels said. “It would have been a he-said, she-said or multiple he-saids against a she-said. I do not think the truth would have been told without the bodycam footage.”
The president of the Salt Lake Police Association, a union, wrote in a letter to Brown and Salt Lake City Mayor Jackie Biskupski that Payne and Tracy had been “unfairly and improperly made pariahs” by the video.


http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/10/slc-police-chief-fires-one-officer-disciplines-another-in-nurse-arrest-case/

Now they can move on.


Bodycam footage shows Utah police shoot man as he runs away
(CNN)The Salt Lake City Police Department is the latest US police department to come under scrutiny after bodycam footage shows an officer shooting and killing a man, even as the man appeared to be running away.

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171008145737-patrick-harmon-shooting-video-salt-lake-city-police-nr-00000000-exlarge-169.jpg


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Hoss on October 11, 2017, 09:19:39 am
Follow up:  One fired, another demoted, and the fatal high-speed chase that triggered it all buried.

Footage ‘tells the truth,’ Utah nurse says after the SLC officer who arrested her was fired

“I will say that the level of scrutiny that this case received would not have been the case had there been no bodycam footage,” Wubbels said. “It would have been a he-said, she-said or multiple he-saids against a she-said. I do not think the truth would have been told without the bodycam footage.”
The president of the Salt Lake Police Association, a union, wrote in a letter to Brown and Salt Lake City Mayor Jackie Biskupski that Payne and Tracy had been “unfairly and improperly made pariahs” by the video.


http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/10/slc-police-chief-fires-one-officer-disciplines-another-in-nurse-arrest-case/

Now they can move on.


Bodycam footage shows Utah police shoot man as he runs away
(CNN)The Salt Lake City Police Department is the latest US police department to come under scrutiny after bodycam footage shows an officer shooting and killing a man, even as the man appeared to be running away.

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171008145737-patrick-harmon-shooting-video-salt-lake-city-police-nr-00000000-exlarge-169.jpg

"Unfairly and improperly made pariahs"?

Because the bodycam footage shows your officers were asshats and weren't following procedure?

Whatever.

It's incidents like this that give the public a terrible impression of LEO, especially when the union tries to make the officers out to be the victims here.  SMFH.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2017, 11:06:26 pm
Follow up:  One fired, another demoted, and the fatal high-speed chase that triggered it all buried.

Footage ‘tells the truth,’ Utah nurse says after the SLC officer who arrested her was fired

“I will say that the level of scrutiny that this case received would not have been the case had there been no bodycam footage,” Wubbels said. “It would have been a he-said, she-said or multiple he-saids against a she-said. I do not think the truth would have been told without the bodycam footage.”
The president of the Salt Lake Police Association, a union, wrote in a letter to Brown and Salt Lake City Mayor Jackie Biskupski that Payne and Tracy had been “unfairly and improperly made pariahs” by the video.


http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/10/slc-police-chief-fires-one-officer-disciplines-another-in-nurse-arrest-case/

Now they can move on.


Bodycam footage shows Utah police shoot man as he runs away
(CNN)The Salt Lake City Police Department is the latest US police department to come under scrutiny after bodycam footage shows an officer shooting and killing a man, even as the man appeared to be running away.

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171008145737-patrick-harmon-shooting-video-salt-lake-city-police-nr-00000000-exlarge-169.jpg

Curious if the fired officers have mailed resumes to the Rogers County Sheriff's Department yet.


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 12, 2017, 07:52:28 am
Curious if the fired officers have mailed resumes to the Rogers County Sheriff's Department yet.


Shelby is gonna  make the recruiting calls next week....




Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on October 20, 2017, 11:15:59 am

Shelby is gonna  make the recruiting calls next week....




Wow, how tacky.

Defense attorney Richard O'Carroll said it was a hard time for him after learning the guilty verdict. He said if you take enough shots at someone, they are going to hit you.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/the-justice-we-deserve-victim-s-father-speaks-after-jury/article_fd9dbd99-d139-5ef5-9d13-0c3172ebcb4a.html


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: Conan71 on October 20, 2017, 11:28:46 am
And in other news directly linked to this thread, Bob Bates is now a free man.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-oklahoma-reserve-deputy-roberts-bates-released-prison-n812446


Title: Re: “I can’t breathe!”
Post by: patric on October 31, 2017, 08:12:18 pm
"Unfairly and improperly made pariahs"?

Because the bodycam footage shows your officers were asshats and weren't following procedure?

Whatever.

It's incidents like this that give the public a terrible impression of LEO, especially when the union tries to make the officers out to be the victims here.  SMFH.

Maybe some closure:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900003222/there-will-be-no-lawsuit-nurse-reaches-settlement-with-salt-lake-university-of-utah.html