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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: Vashta Nerada on August 11, 2014, 09:52:20 pm



Title: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 11, 2014, 09:52:20 pm
The "I was afraid he was going to reach for my gun" excuse didnt work this time.



(http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ABC_QUIK_TRIP2_140811_DG_4x3_992.jpg)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/11/us-usa-missouri-shooting-idUSKBN0GA0Q420140811
http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/630*423/10024841+1mo081014.JPG



Witnesses say Missouri Teen's Hands Were Up When Cop Shot Him
http://abcnews.go.com/US/witness-missouri-teens-hands-cop-shot/story?id=24920358
Quote
A woman who says she witnessed the shooting of Michael Brown by a Ferguson, Mo., police officer said the 18-year-old had his hands up when he was killed.

The witness said Brown, 18, had turned around and was facing police with his hands in the air when the officer fired. She said a stray bullet from the police officer's gun hit a neighbor's home.

"I saw him turn around with his arms up in the air and they shot him in his face and chest and he went down unarmed," Piaget Crenshaw said.

"Was the other subject, the deceased, the 18-year-old, armed with a handgun or rifle or any type of weapon at the time? The answer to that is no," said Jon Belmar, chief of the St. Louis County Police Department, which was investigating the shooting by a Ferguson Police officer.

 "It is our understanding at this point in the investigation that within the police car there was a struggle over the officer's weapon," Belmar said.
According to the police chief, the officer said he then got out of his vehicle and shot "at a subject."



Quote
The outrage in this town of 21,000 began this weekend after a Ferguson police officer shot and killed the teenager Saturday but witnesses said he had been unarmed and had his hands in the air.

Authorities told a different story. The police officer tried to get out of his vehicle just before the shooting, but Brown pushed him back into the car, said St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar.

Brown "physically assaulted" the officer, Belmar said, and the teen tried to get the officer's weapon. Brown was shot about 35 feet from the vehicle, the chief said, declining to provide more details.

Ferguson Police said its cars are not equipped with dashboard cameras.

Anger over the shooting gripped many in Ferguson. Some shouted at police who were at the vigil.

Stoic police in riot gear watched as young men knelt before them, hands up to symbolize surrender

But officers can be heard on video yelling back, calling protesters "fu@king animals."


Antonio French, an alderman in St. Louis, said a QuikTrip gas station was looted and an ATM dragged out.

"The officers did their best. They're only human," Knowles responded, adding that not every one of the 300 police officers present were from the Ferguson department.


A medical examiner will issue a ruling on how many times Brown was shot.

"It was more than just a couple," Belmar said.

Witnesses said Brown did nothing to instigate the shooting and appeared to be surrendering when he was killed.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-teen-shooting/



Quote
According to Belmar, Brown was walking with a friend in the middle of the street when an officer attempted to exit his vehicle, the Los Angeles Times reported. Police said Brown pushed the officer back into the police car.
Brown then entered the officer’s vehicle and a struggle ensued over the officer’s weapon, according to police. During the altercation a shot was fired inside the car.

The officer and Brown then exited the vehicle and at that point the fatal shooting occurred, Belmar said.

Witnesses have had different accounts.

Dorin Johnson, a friend of the victim, told Fox 2 that he was walking in the street with Brown when the police squad car pulled up. The officer said to "Get the eff onto the sidewalk," he recounted.

Johnson said the officer didn't get out of his police car, but "reach[ed] his arm out the window and grabbed my friend around the neck."

"I witnessed the police chase after the guy, full force," Piaget Crenshaw said. "He ran for his life. They shot him and he fell. He put his arms up to let them know that he was compliant and he was unarmed and they shot him twice more and he fell to the ground and died."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-missouri-police-shooting-20140810-story.html


Quote
An Associated Press photographer said police were telling people to go home, but authorities had blocked exit streets off.

Brown "was giving up in the sense of raising his arms and being subdued," Walker told The Associated Press on Monday. The officer "had his gun raised and started shooting the individual in the chest multiple times." The officer then "stood over him and shot him" after the victim fell wounded, Walker said.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOSRQ-c1XW0[/youtube]


















Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 12, 2014, 07:59:05 am
Kid lives about 4 miles from this and there are a LOT of people pissed about the situation.  Still much to learn about the whole story, but seems to be a stupid cop situation at best....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 12, 2014, 08:46:07 am
Stupid cop situation, yes.  I saw an interview last night with the guy the victim was with when it happened. 

I still fail to understand how is “Let’s get our burnin’ ’n’ lootin’ on!" a justifiable response to situations like this.  I’ve never understood it.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 12, 2014, 09:26:14 am
Stupid cop situation, yes.  I saw an interview last night with the guy the victim was with when it happened. 
I still fail to understand how is “Let’s get our burnin’ ’n’ lootin’ on!" a justifiable response to situations like this.  I’ve never understood it.

Some bullying that spiraled into a murder that spiraled into a riot.   Winner: None.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on August 12, 2014, 10:01:32 am
I'm sure QT will be in all kind of hurry to rebuild in that area of town. Way to go outstanding citizens. Another burned and boarded up building to sit empty for years. And then b!tch about why no businesses want to open on our side of the city.  ::)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 12, 2014, 10:34:59 am
I'm sure QT will be in all kind of hurry to rebuild in that area of town. Way to go outstanding citizens. Another burned and boarded up building to sit empty for years. And then b!tch about why no businesses want to open on our side of the city.  ::)

Where they gonna git their blunts ’n’ malt liquor now?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AquaMan on August 12, 2014, 10:54:20 am
QT must have made a mistake in judgement by locating in this dangerous neighborhood. The owner says they don't do that. Thats why there are so few QT's in north Tulsa. Right?

There are two types of unreliable evidence. One is first hand witnesses, especially groups. The other is cop reports after they've had a chance to group up and get their stories straight. When the cell phones are analyzed and the commercial camera evidence is gathered, you have a better idea of what really happened. Of course no cameras in the squad cars or on the patrolmen? Yeah, that figures.

Riots are the result of greed, perceived injustice, ignorance and a violent culture. I'm sure that if they had the good jobs, the good education, the strong family life that you guys benefitted from, they would be able to see how shortsighted looting and burning is. But they don't and they instead draw from what they know and exert power in the basest form.

One more city I can cross off my escape list.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 12, 2014, 12:01:12 pm
QT must have made a mistake in judgement by locating in this dangerous neighborhood. The owner says they don't do that. Thats why there are so few QT's in north Tulsa. Right?

There are two types of unreliable evidence. One is first hand witnesses, especially groups. The other is cop reports after they've had a chance to group up and get their stories straight. When the cell phones are analyzed and the commercial camera evidence is gathered, you have a better idea of what really happened. Of course no cameras in the squad cars or on the patrolmen? Yeah, that figures.

Riots are the result of greed, perceived injustice, ignorance and a violent culture. I'm sure that if they had the good jobs, the good education, the strong family life that you guys benefitted from, they would be able to see how shortsighted looting and burning is. But they don't and they instead draw from what they know and exert power in the basest form.

One more city I can cross off my escape list.


http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on August 13, 2014, 09:17:13 am
Now that Al has shown up. Can Jesse be to far behind?
And whats with hiring Trayvon Martins Attorney? He did such a bang up job on that case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723523/Stand-man-Grieving-mother-Michael-Brown-pleas-cop-shot-son-come-forward-police-refuse-reveal-officers-name.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 13, 2014, 09:28:46 am
Stupid cop situation, yes.  I saw an interview last night with the guy the victim was with when it happened. 

I still fail to understand how is “Let’s get our burnin’ ’n’ lootin’ on!" a justifiable response to situations like this.  I’ve never understood it.

Opportunistic criminals.

The looters have little or nothing to do with any justifiable response to this tragedy.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 13, 2014, 09:56:35 am
Now that Al has shown up. Can Jesse be to far behind?
And whats with hiring Trayvon Martins Attorney? He did such a bang up job on that case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723523/Stand-man-Grieving-mother-Michael-Brown-pleas-cop-shot-son-come-forward-police-refuse-reveal-officers-name.html

When I lived up there, Al showed up to protest the highway construction on I70 because no black-owned contractors were chosen to do the construction.  He and a group of people joined hands, formed a human chain, and shut down the highway for a day.  The Mayor responded by arresting him.  After his release, he snuck away, but not before the Schnuck's market, and several other businesses to the north of where I lived, were looted in the name of fairness.  After that, Schnuck's on North Delmar always had an armed police presence in the parking lot.

The fact that minority-owned HWY contractors were included in the RFP, but none of them responded, was of little concern to Sharpton.  In attempt to avoid future protest, the city put together an education program for minority contractors to train them on how to respond to government RFPs, this of course would have been the constructive action that Sharpton's group could have lobbied for if they really cared about minority inclusion. 

Regardless, Sharpton kept showing up every time there was a big project that went to a white contractor.  He got lots of good press in St. Louis, and is quite the hero.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 13, 2014, 01:10:22 pm
Riots are the result of greed, perceived injustice, ignorance and a violent culture. I'm sure that if they had the good jobs, the good education, the strong family life that you guys benefitted from, they would be able to see how shortsighted looting and burning is. But they don't and they instead draw from what they know and exert power in the basest form.

With all the grief Tulsa gets from its history, it's worth noting that when these sort of atrocities happen here, we arent out in the streets rioting like people would expect a city with our 'rep to be.
I just think that says something very positive about Tulsa.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Red Arrow on August 13, 2014, 04:09:50 pm
With all the grief Tulsa gets from its history, it's worth noting that when these sort of atrocities happen here, we arent out in the streets rioting like people would expect a city with our 'rep to be.
I just think that says something very positive about Tulsa.

Too apathetic to riot.
 
 ;D


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 02:11:30 am
Still much to learn about the whole story, but seems to be a stupid cop situation at best....


I think I know you are channeling...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrP9LPA7Ueg[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 02:14:19 am


Regardless, Sharpton kept showing up every time there was a big project that went to a white contractor.  He got lots of good press in St. Louis, and is quite the hero.

Really?

http://thehayride.com/2014/08/brilliant-al-sharpton-goes-to-st-louis-gets-heckled-unmercifully/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 02:16:22 am
Obama is catching some heat over this because apparently he has not blamed the white police and freaked out. Bad rap. And yes, my meds are okay.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Townsend on August 14, 2014, 07:23:02 am
Obama is catching some heat over this because apparently he has not blamed the white police and freaked out. Bad rap. And yes, my meds are okay.

Imagine the heat if he'd blamed white police.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on August 14, 2014, 07:25:30 am
Why don't they Protest....Riot and Loot when they shoot each other.....???


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Townsend on August 14, 2014, 07:28:25 am
Why don't they Protest....Riot and Loot when they shoot each other.....???

Less news coverage to let anyone know there should be protests, rioting and looting.

If the public isn't informed they should be outraged they don't know to be outraged.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 14, 2014, 08:39:10 am
Less news coverage to let anyone know there should be protests, rioting and looting.

If the public isn't informed they should be outraged they don't know to be outraged.


The first casualty in war is the truth.

Watch Ferguson Police Arrest Reporters For No Reason
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/reporters-arrested-ferguson-video-wesley-lowery_n_5677001.html

Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery gives account of his arrest
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-ferguson-washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-gives-account-of-his-arrest/2014/08/13/0fe25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

Huffington Post, Washington Post Reporters Arrested, Assaulted By Ferguson Police
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/reporters-arrested-ferguson-ryan-reilly-wesley-lowery_n_5676841.html

Journalists Face Tear Gas, Police Threats While Covering Protests Against Killing Of Michael Brown
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/journalists-threatened-michael-brown_n_5671155.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXI2ln_2Tac[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 10:38:29 am

The first casualty in war is the truth.




Didn't happen to "Them", so it doesn't matter....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AquaMan on August 14, 2014, 10:46:26 am

The first casualty in war is the truth.

Watch Ferguson Police Arrest Reporters For No Reason
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/reporters-arrested-ferguson-video-wesley-lowery_n_5677001.html

Washington Post reporter Wesley Lowery gives account of his arrest
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-ferguson-washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-gives-account-of-his-arrest/2014/08/13/0fe25c0e-2359-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

Huffington Post, Washington Post Reporters Arrested, Assaulted By Ferguson Police
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/reporters-arrested-ferguson-ryan-reilly-wesley-lowery_n_5676841.html

Journalists Face Tear Gas, Police Threats While Covering Protests Against Killing Of Michael Brown
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/journalists-threatened-michael-brown_n_5671155.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXI2ln_2Tac[/youtube]

I have a friend who is a college professor. I joke with him that when the revolution comes, its his type who have to be disposed of first. Intellectuals, reporters, and writers pose a threat to new regimes because they have knowledge of history and are likely to expose the truth. That's anathema to power. I never expected that they would instead merely be politically neutered, criminalized and redefined as the enemy.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 10:47:38 am
I have a friend who is a college professor. I joke with him that when the revolution comes, its his type who have to be disposed of first. Intellectuals, reporters, and writers pose a threat to new regimes because they have knowledge of history and are likely to expose the truth. That's anathema to power. I never expected that they would instead merely be politically neutered, criminalized and redefined as the enemy.


It's the "Murdochian Way"



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 01:25:29 pm
Um, can we wait to find out what happened before we are all outraged? And incidentally, it doesn't help the protesters' cause when Al Sharton shows up.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 14, 2014, 01:37:03 pm
Um, can we wait to find out what happened before we are all outraged?

No. The police spokesperson has said it may take weeks for them to do an investigation.

The police confront two men on the street...the policeman gets pissed on something then try to pull one of the men into his car with his hands around his neck. The suspect struggles then runs off. The officer fires multiple shots killing the man. Witnesses say the man was on the ground with his hands behind his back when the officer fired multiple times.

If not bad enough, the police left the dead body on the street for hours and have refused to release the name of the officer.

I do not condone the riots nor the behavior of the crowds toward the police. But no, we shouldn't have to wait weeks to find out what the police say happened.

We should be outraged.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AquaMan on August 14, 2014, 01:38:10 pm
And incidentally, it doesn't help the protesters' cause when Al Sharton shows up.

Everyone has their (false) idols. Would you rather Donald Trump showed up?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 03:08:52 pm
Everyone has their (false) idols. Would you rather Donald Trump showed up?

“Why don’t you animals all go get jobs?!?”

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1229854!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/donald-trump.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 03:12:22 pm
“Why don’t you animals all go get jobs?!?”

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1229854!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/donald-trump.jpg)

"Why don't you get that animal off your head?".

 ;D


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on August 14, 2014, 03:25:55 pm
I'm going to save my outrage......


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 03:44:07 pm
I'm going to save my outrage......


That and 6 cups of flour, 3 sups water, 1/4 cup yeast, dash of salt.... instant bread!!



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 14, 2014, 04:47:41 pm
Um, can we wait to find out what happened before we are all outraged?

Unfortunately, the people who do that are also being shot at and rounded up.


Video: http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/14/crews-hit-with-bean-bags-tear-gas/14042747/

FERGUSON, Mo. – As police broke up protests in Ferguson late Wednesday night, they also turned their tactics on local and national television news crews.

Two KSDK-TV photojournalists and reporter Elizabeth Matthews were filing a story about the cancellation of school in the Ferguson-Florissant school district. Matthews said they reported from a Ferguson neighborhood just outside a perimeter established by police. The crew was working out of a SUV and a larger "live" van. At least one other TV crew from Al Jazeera America was also in the neighborhood working from a mini-van.

Shortly after 9 p.m., police in riot gear began dispersing demonstrators about a quarter of a mile from the crew's location. Matthews said as protesters fled the area they ran through the neighborhood about two or three at a time for a total of no more than 20.

One of the photojournalists walked to the intersection of Highmont and West Florissant where he documented what appeared to be an altercation between police and an individual they were detaining along West Florissant. About 15 seconds into his video recording, bright lights can be seen shining at his position. Approximately 30 seconds later, as he continues to record video the sound of an air rifle firing can be heard followed by a "thud."

According to the 23-year veteran of television news, a "bean bag round" hit his camera equipment, and he retreated back to his original position on Highmont.

Both photojournalists and Matthews say police never told them to leave the area prior to this incident.

Approximately five to 10 minutes later, video recorded by the other photojournalist shows police at the intersection of Highmont and West Florissant fire what appears to be tear gas at the Al Jazeera America crew station nearby. The crew of three people is set up with television lights and a camera in front of their mini-van. The video shows the apparent tear gas billowing smoke directly in front of them. The KSDK crew says the canister hit the Al Jazeera America van.

The KSDK crew says the Al Jazeera America crew was yelling, "We're the press." The Al Jazeera America crew can be seen running away from the van on video. Then two police officers can be seen taking down the crew's television lights and tilting the TV camera toward the ground.

From there, the KSDK crew says police approached them with "guns drawn." Matthews says she and one photojournalist were in the SUV with their hands up and the third member of their crew got down on his knees in front of the SUV and raised his hand – telling police he was with the press.

Matthews says police told them they received a call that members of the media were in danger and in need of assistance. All three members of the KSDK crew say they were never in danger and never asked for assistance.

At this point, the video shows still photographers gathered around the KSDK crew. Police tell the journalists to follow them out of the neighborhood when one person is heard saying "We're OK here." Another voice says "We don't want you here. Somebody's going to get hurt. We don't want to see you guys get hurt."


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 05:18:14 pm
More of the Obama vacay "outrage". I guess RM is one of those screaming at Obama for jerking around while Ferguson burns. Amirite?


https://twitter.com/elliosch/status/499886630522851329/photo/1


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 05:20:28 pm
Here comes the "Trayvonning"...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-michael-brown-was-a-local-gangster-seen-flashing-gang-signs/

I visit this site, but this stuff has got to calm down. Everyone needs to calm down.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 06:03:07 pm
Man this is not helpful.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/nba-star-calls-al-sharpton-a-coon-for-stepping-into-ferguson/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: davideinstein on August 14, 2014, 06:10:17 pm
Random guy was protesting at 41st and Peoria today with a "No Justice, No Peace" sign. I honked.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: swake on August 14, 2014, 06:11:25 pm
Since when is flipping off a camera a gang sign.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 06:14:33 pm
Since when is flipping off a camera a gang sign.

Since I guess you didn't look at all the pictures. Or consider the point I was trying to make.  Here's some hot dem on dem action. (and by "hot", I mean everyone please calm down again!). NSFW language. This cannot be real.

https://twitter.com/MariaChappelleN/status/499796605411676160


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 14, 2014, 06:48:46 pm
I am worried that guido911 keeps posting tweets from democrats. He clearly is becoming obsessed again.

Can someone find him a hobby?

Why would we want to read about some people having a twitter war with each other? Why would you not only read it, but feel compelled to post it here?

Guess what guido911? They are just unknown people who don't have the sense to not get in a verbal war with each other. Their opinions have no more merit than anything you or I say on this forum.

#letitgoguido


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 07:18:39 pm
I am worried that guido911 keeps posting tweets from democrats. He clearly is becoming obsessed again.

Can someone find him a hobby?

Why would we want to read about some people having a twitter war with each other? Why would you not only read it, but feel compelled to post it here?

Guess what guido911? They are just unknown people who don't have the sense to not get in a verbal war with each other. Their opinions have no more merit than anything you or I say on this forum.

#letitgoguido

Again?  When did it really ever stop?  I can envision him and Gas IM'ing each other with the latest new 'hot dem on dem action'...


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 07:44:35 pm
Since I guess you didn't look at all the pictures. Or consider the point I was trying to make.  Here's some hot dem on dem action. (and by "hot", I mean everyone please calm down again!). NSFW language. This cannot be real.



The guys think you need a hobby.... how about you, me and some of your rich buddies get together and start a non-profit with the goal of transportation for elderly and physically limited around town?  And to outlying towns....   Kind of along the lines of the LIFT program, expanded - maybe more point to point.  Perhaps regular routes from assisted living facilities to medical, shopping, etc.... A specialized shuttle program.

Gonna cost some bucks...maybe there are Federal grants??



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Red Arrow on August 14, 2014, 09:05:47 pm
I am worried that guido911 keeps posting tweets from democrats. He clearly is becoming obsessed again.
Can someone find him a hobby?

I think he has one.  You just don't like it.
 
 ;D


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 10:10:46 pm
When N’awlins was rotting after Katrina and Bush was the epicenter of anger, everyone was supposed to sit up and take notice and take their anger out on him.  Now that Ferguson has burned and its residents (and notable lib celebs on Twitter) are turning on Obama, it’s a non-issue.  M’kay.  Just making sure I have the script straight.  

Sounds like a Sorosian plot to me.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 10:29:36 pm
I am worried that guido911 keeps posting tweets from democrats. He clearly is becoming obsessed again.

Can someone find him a hobby?

Why would we want to read about some people having a twitter war with each other? Why would you not only read it, but feel compelled to post it here?

Guess what guido911? They are just unknown people who don't have the sense to not get in a verbal war with each other. Their opinions have no more merit than anything you or I say on this forum.

#letitgoguido

Whats the matter? Not like hearing about the party that falls in love with one another back biting? It's not my fault that Mo. has a dem governor, and a dem state senator is tearing into him. Or that Sharpton is bringing his stench into St. L. And by the way, I gave Obama credit on his handling of this, or did you just miss that. I also gave grief to a right leading website for stirring the pot, or did you miss that too.

I do not care who is running their mouths on this story, it needs to calm the heck down.  You by the way are part of the problem, passing judgment without all the facts. You need to calm down too.

And to make you feel better, here's Joe Scarborough getting ripped.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NBBHucAkMA[/youtube]

Loosen up the armor, and take a look at who is agreeing with you. 


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 14, 2014, 10:30:45 pm

The guys think you need a hobby.... how about you, me and some of your rich buddies get together and start a non-profit with the goal of transportation for elderly and physically limited around town?  And to outlying towns....   Kind of along the lines of the LIFT program, expanded - maybe more point to point.  Perhaps regular routes from assisted living facilities to medical, shopping, etc.... A specialized shuttle program.

Gonna cost some bucks...maybe there are Federal grants??



I am waiting on the snail farm IPO


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 07:16:10 am
I am waiting on the snail farm IPO


That's gonna stay a closely held corporation - and the business plan is to make just enough to cover the costs for my bad habit (eating escargot).


Here's where it all starts, though, if you want a fun, relaxing, rewarding hobby in agriculture.  Gardening/farming is therapeutic and soothes the soul;

http://afsic.nal.usda.gov/grazing-systems-and-alternative-livestock-breeds/raising-alternative-livestock-breeds/snails


Even a small 4' x 8' bed is very easy to make and maintain (I can help you offline if interested) and gives you the opportunity for quiet time to commune with nature!  Very relaxing after a busy day at work.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 15, 2014, 07:45:38 am

That's gonna stay a closely held corporation - and the business plan is to make just enough to cover the costs for my bad habit (eating escargot).


Here's where it all starts, though, if you want a fun, relaxing, rewarding hobby in agriculture.  Gardening/farming is therapeutic and soothes the soul;

http://afsic.nal.usda.gov/grazing-systems-and-alternative-livestock-breeds/raising-alternative-livestock-breeds/snails


Even a small 4' x 8' bed is very easy to make and maintain (I can help you offline if interested) and gives you the opportunity for quiet time to commune with nature!  Very relaxing after a busy day at work.



Easy Saturday morning project for right around $100.  We already had extra dirt on hand from some raised hedge beds we took out:

(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q55/71conan/36026553-73b4-47b3-899a-f144651aa386_zpsbe71a8e4.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 08:30:34 am
Easy Saturday morning project for right around $100.  We already had extra dirt on hand from some raised hedge beds we took out:



The latest ones I built like that - I used 10 ft long cedar for the corner posts, buried about 18" in ground.  That left 4 each, 8' poles for fencing, screening, tying off with twine, etc.  Very flexible.  Very nice gardens for a small space.  Easy to work from both sides, and I can dig it up, rake, and make ready to plant in under 30 minutes.  Planted green beans one time as the only thing in one and got almost a bushel of beans.





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Ben on August 15, 2014, 09:39:58 am

That left 4 each, 8' poles for fencing, screening, tying off with twine, etc.  Very flexible. 

I wish I had thought of that when I built a couple raised beds last season. Next time...


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 15, 2014, 10:05:43 am
I built one exactly that way last year. I am so bad with tools that it took six hours and then another four to fill it with dirt and compost.

Them tomatoes were worth it.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AquaMan on August 15, 2014, 10:16:49 am
The groups are getting their stories straight. Someone ain't tellin' the troof. Where were all the cell phone cameras?

http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html?soc_src=copy


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 15, 2014, 10:48:04 am
The groups are getting their stories straight. Someone ain't tellin' the troof. Where were all the cell phone cameras?

http://news.yahoo.com/turmoil-tear-gas-way-hope-ferguson-053336976.html?soc_src=copy

I would be surprised if the video from the QuikTrip cameras weren't sitting on a remote server somewhere.
As for the deceased, demonizing the victim is an essential part of damage control.  Not that he could have been an angel, but taking ten rounds point blank still isnt justified.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Townsend on August 15, 2014, 11:22:19 am
Not that he could have been an angel, but taking ten rounds point blank still isnt justified.

Unless he was sent to kill Sarah Connor.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 15, 2014, 11:58:43 am
Now hell is about to freeze over:  


Missouri Unrest Prompts Some GOP to Advocate for Police Restraint
The images of camouflage-clad police wielding high-powered rifles that have poured in from Ferguson, Missouri this week have prompted some Republicans, a party that has traditionally championed “tough on crime” policies, to speak out about the need for restraint from law enforcement.

House Democrat Readies Bill To Demilitarize Local Police
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) announced Thursday that he plans to file legislation aimed at stemming the militarization of local police -- something on full display this week in Ferguson, Missouri, where officers in riot gear have been showering largely peaceful protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets.



Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky, rivers and seas boiling, dogs and cats living together...


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 15, 2014, 01:38:57 pm
I would be surprised if the video from the QuikTrip cameras weren't sitting on a remote server somewhere.
As for the deceased, demonizing the victim is an essential part of damage control.  Not that he could have been an angel, but taking ten rounds point blank still isnt justified.

I call it the "trayvonning" of the victim. But the store video was not helpful. Still, I cautioned everyone to calm down and wait. Look what that got me.  ::) I do wonder if that video was held back to "set up" (for the sake of a better expression) all the out-of-towners coming in like Sharpton.  

edited to add that the recent word is that the guy in the video is not Brown. Just saying.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 01:42:37 pm
I wish I had thought of that when I built a couple raised beds last season. Next time...

Retrofit.

Can add them next to the existing corners, too.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 01:44:45 pm
I built one exactly that way last year. I am so bad with tools that it took six hours and then another four to fill it with dirt and compost.

Them tomatoes were worth it.


One of the last beds I planted (none this year) was with a hominy corn called Hickory King.   It's the type they make CornNuts from.  Stalks from 10 - 12 feet tall.  Very impressive....



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 01:47:02 pm
Now hell is about to freeze over:  


Missouri Unrest Prompts Some GOP to Advocate for Police Restraint
The images of camouflage-clad police wielding high-powered rifles that have poured in from Ferguson, Missouri this week have prompted some Republicans, a party that has traditionally championed “tough on crime” policies, to speak out about the need for restraint from law enforcement.

House Democrat Readies Bill To Demilitarize Local Police
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) announced Thursday that he plans to file legislation aimed at stemming the militarization of local police -- something on full display this week in Ferguson, Missouri, where officers in riot gear have been showering largely peaceful protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets.



Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky, rivers and seas boiling, dogs and cats living together...


I shudder.....



Must retreat to a quieter, more peaceful time.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGm_vWuzlig



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AquaMan on August 15, 2014, 02:34:08 pm
I call it the "trayvonning" of the victim. But the store video was not helpful. Still, I cautioned everyone to calm down and wait. Look what that got me.  ::) I do wonder if that video was held back to "set up" (for the sake of a better expression) all the out-of-towners coming in like Sharpton.  

edited to add that the recent word is that the guy in the video is not Brown. Just saying.

If it matters, I agree with you. Calmness is to be desired and yes, he is being Travonned. I found it curious that they led people to believe that the big guy in the video was Brown. Still he was an accomplice, so it was somewhat accurate, but not the whole truth. The dialogue of the officer wasn't that of a cop stopping a suspect, but of a bully disrespecting locals.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 15, 2014, 03:18:10 pm
Here's Allahpundit's take on it. He's a center-rightish blogger that is somewhat the civil libertarian. His thoughts are interesting.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/08/15/wait-a-sec-ferguson-police-chief-says-initial-contact-with-brown-wasnt-connected-to-robbery/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 15, 2014, 03:58:36 pm
Here is yet another change in the story from the PD.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ferguson-officer-stopped-michael-brown-for-walking-in-street-but/article_52c40b84-ad90-5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html?mobile_touch=true

My goodness.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 16, 2014, 03:50:27 am
Just curious, have any of you noticed that before the QT location became "ground zero" for everything, that QT has removed all identification of the store? All the signage from the canopy, the store front, and the pumps has been removed? I don't think they are trying to hide anything, but, are they are just trying to distance themselves from the events since they were not directly involved? This is not a derogatory statement about them, just a curiosity thing. Most people in the US would not know QT from any other convenience store.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 16, 2014, 06:53:48 am
Just curious, have any of you noticed that before the QT location became "ground zero" for everything, that QT has removed all identification of the store? All the signage from the canopy, the store front, and the pumps has been removed? I don't think they are trying to hide anything, but, are they are just trying to distance themselves from the events since they were not directly involved? This is not a derogatory statement about them, just a curiosity thing. Most people in the US would not know QT from any other convenience store.


If it were mine, that's the first thing I would do, too.  Would not want my corporate image associated with burned out hulk.  They do that same thing on intact buildings they move out of.  The signage is usually gone before all the stuff is out of the store.  61st & 145th.  81st and 129th when they moved out of them.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 16, 2014, 11:29:00 am
Just curious, have any of you noticed that before the QT location became "ground zero" for everything, that QT has removed all identification of the store? All the signage from the canopy, the store front, and the pumps has been removed? I don't think they are trying to hide anything, but, are they are just trying to distance themselves from the events since they were not directly involved? This is not a derogatory statement about them, just a curiosity thing. Most people in the US would not know QT from any other convenience store.

Being a crime scene, I wonder who would allow that sort of tampering?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AquaMan on August 16, 2014, 03:59:04 pm
I think they pretty much have their hands full with more pressing issues. QT doesn't want their name identified with crime, riots, looting etc and made the right pr move.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 16, 2014, 09:01:07 pm
Being a crime scene, I wonder who would allow that sort of tampering?

Removing signage wouldn’t be tampering.  They have a right to deal with their property as they see fit after the officials have moved on.  It’s no longer a crime scene after the investigators have left.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 17, 2014, 08:42:34 am
Why Ferguson Looks So Much Like Iraq
http://time.com/3111455/ferguson-missouri-michael-brown-iraq


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 17, 2014, 01:16:36 pm
Why Ferguson Looks So Much Like Iraq
http://time.com/3111455/ferguson-missouri-michael-brown-iraq

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 17, 2014, 06:41:14 pm
Why Ferguson Looks So Much Like Iraq



So, where are all the videos of the confrontation??    There were many starting 3 minutes later....no way on this planet that there aren't several.  Any time a police car rides into that neighborhood - its a hotbed of crips and bloods, all along that main street - the cameras come out and filming starts!   It is becoming more and more suspicious that these are not forthcoming.  We see from the convenience store video that he is at least a criminal in training....  Why no videos of the event??



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 17, 2014, 07:08:10 pm
Why Ferguson Looks So Much Like Iraq
http://time.com/3111455/ferguson-missouri-michael-brown-iraq

It’s “The Iraq”

I wonder how many lines of coke she’s snorted off....eh never mind.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q[/youtube]

Sorry, YT links won’t post direct anymore.  Admin? Any help?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 17, 2014, 07:12:07 pm
It’s “The Iraq”

I wonder how many lines of coke she’s snorted off....eh never mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q

Sorry, YT links won’t post direct anymore.  Admin? Any help?

Drop the "s" from https.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 17, 2014, 07:14:35 pm
Drop the "s" from https.

Brilliant!!!


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on August 17, 2014, 08:58:59 pm
Brilliant!!!

I can't help but see someone type that and think of these commercials.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBh895KdXAU[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 17, 2014, 09:16:05 pm
Well, the 'crips' and 'bloods'....er, uh..."protestors"....are out again tonight after curfew.    

The real, law abiding protestors have been obeying the law and leaving at curfew - it's the gangs that are left at night - watch for the red and dark blue t-shirts...I have spotted quite a few on the CNN news feed - more red obvious than blue.   Jesse Jackson just said it's not the people of Ferguson....it's outsiders.  Yeah, there are a lot of outsiders - plus the local gangs.







Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 18, 2014, 06:05:07 am

So, where are all the videos of the confrontation??    There were many starting 3 minutes later....no way on this planet that there aren't several.  Any time a police car rides into that neighborhood - its a hotbed of crips and bloods, all along that main street - the cameras come out and filming starts!   It is becoming more and more suspicious that these are not forthcoming.  We see from the convenience store video that he is at least a criminal in training....  Why no videos of the event??



More of it is coming out.  Apparently there was video after the event that was posted to social media by onlookers.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/
It inadvertently adds confirmation to the officer's account.  I would assume there would be quite a bit more "crowd video coverage" emerging.

Prelim autopsy info coming out too that corroborates the officer's story, and discounts the account that he was "shot in the back as he was fleeing with his hands up".
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=2&referrer=

Again. . .none of this will matter.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 18, 2014, 07:40:17 am
So, with all the shots coming from the front, that little punk that was with him robbing the convenience store and talking to the cameras has been shown to be totally lies.



This sounds suspiciously like the account the other cop at the scene gave....from a different standpoint....

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ijreview.com%2F2014%2F08%2F168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting%2F&h=QAQHo9jYx



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 18, 2014, 07:41:54 am
More of it is coming out.  Apparently there was video after the event that was posted to social media by onlookers.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/
It inadvertently adds confirmation to the officer's account.  I would assume there would be quite a bit more "crowd video coverage" emerging.

Prelim autopsy info coming out too that corroborates the officer's story, and discounts the account that he was "shot in the back as he was fleeing with his hands up".
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=2&referrer=

Again. . .none of this will matter.


I reposted your first link...didn't look at it until after commenting....

Too many missing links, but starting to fill in....



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 18, 2014, 10:07:55 am
So, with all the shots coming from the front, that little punk that was with him robbing the convenience store and talking to the cameras has been shown to be totally lies.
This sounds suspiciously like the account the other cop at the scene gave....from a different standpoint....
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ijreview.com%2F2014%2F08%2F168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting%2F&h=QAQHo9jYx

That article seems to misinterpret "but he kept coming toward him" as meaning the teen advancing, not the officer.
At this point, the teen has already been shot at least once, so it flies in the face of reason for him to stop retreating and be "coming at" the cop shooting at him.

The officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot' " and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown, Johnson said.
Johnson and a bloodied Brown took off running, and Johnson hid behind the first car he saw, he said. The officer got out of his car.

"I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike," Johnson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died."


At this point, witnesses are saying the officer stood over the body and fired more rounds.
Almost every witness account has the victim facing the officer with his hands up and being shot.  It would not be surprising that a team of union lawyers would want to re-engineer those accounts to something more favorable to their client.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 18, 2014, 11:37:55 am
The real, law abiding protestors have been obeying the law and leaving at curfew - it's the gangs that are left at night - watch for the red and dark blue t-shirts...I have spotted quite a few on the CNN news feed - more red obvious than blue.   Jesse Jackson just said it's not the people of Ferguson....it's outsiders.  Yeah, there are a lot of outsiders - plus the local gangs.

One group throws a Molotov cocktail, while another rushes to put out the fire.  One group lives there, the other obviously doesnt.

Meanwhile the National Guard is taking over for the highway patrol, who took over for the county police who took over for the local police.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 11:51:03 am
Looks like the media has something to say about the looters.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwWHohUsTyQ[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 18, 2014, 11:54:49 am
That article seems to misinterpret "but he kept coming toward him" as meaning the teen advancing, not the officer.
At this point, the teen has already been shot at least once, so it flies in the face of reason for him to stop retreating and be "coming at" the cop shooting at him.

The officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot' " and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown, Johnson said.
Johnson and a bloodied Brown took off running, and Johnson hid behind the first car he saw, he said. The officer got out of his car.

"I saw the officer proceeding after my friend Big Mike with his gun drawn, and he fired a second shot and that struck my friend Big Mike," Johnson told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer firing several more shots into my friend, and he hit the ground and died."


At this point, witnesses are saying the officer stood over the body and fired more rounds.
Almost every witness account has the victim facing the officer with his hands up and being shot.  It would not be surprising that a team of union lawyers would want to re-engineer those accounts to something more favorable to their client.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/

At this point all we have is varying narratives and some forensic evidence. Your comment about reason is indeed accurate.  To employ reason we would need to apply it to evidence only, and we don't have much of that.  What we can do is use reason to discount anything false based on the evidence we do have.

Most of the narratives from onlookers, as well as the police statements put Brown (and in some cases both Brown & Johnson) in the officer's car at some point where there was some kind of struggle, and this would follow the physical evidence of Wilson being treated after the shooting for a swollen face/jaw, however in Johnson's account, neither were in the officer's vehicle.  

We can automatically discount any of the eye-witness accounts that claim Brown was shot several times while he was running away, because we know how many shots were fired, where, and how many hit the body, and where.  With the exception of any mention of a struggle in the vehicle, Johnson's narrative is possible.

In Johnson's account, the officer opened fire on Brown after he refused to move from the middle of the street.  He also alleges that the officer grabbed brown around the neck and choked him. Brown then tried to pull away to avoid being choked, Johnson says.  If this is true, we will expect forensic evidence to show that Brown was choked or at least restrained by the neck.  This is very important, because the neck is a part of the body that is extremely sensitive to bruising and capillary damage.

“They’re not wrestling so much as his arm went from his throat to now clenched on his shirt … It’s like tug of war. He’s trying to pull him in. He’s pulling away, that’s when I heard, ‘I’m gonna shoot you,’” Johnson said.

The two realized the officer had pulled out a hand gun and pointed it at Brown. The officer repeated, “I’ll shoot.” Seconds later, the first shot went off. Johnson says the officer let go after he shot Brown.

Brown and Johnson then ran towards a line of three cars on the side of the street. Johnson went behind the first, but Brown ran past. Brown yelled “Keep running, bro!” But by the time he got to the third car, the officer shot Brown in the back, according to Johnson.

Johnson says Brown stopped, put his hands up, turned around, and yelled he didn't have a gun.

The officer allegedly shot several more times, Brown fell to the ground, and Johnson ran to his apartment.

“He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and put his hands in the air, and he started to get down,” Johnson said. “But the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and fired several more shots.”

From the reports & shells at the scene we know that Wilson's weapon was fired at least once while he was still in his vehicle, but Johnson doesn't mention this at all.  Again, forensic evidence will determine wether a gun was fired in a struggle, and GSR/bullet will paint a picture of how and where.

This account was told on the Radio on August 15th by someone who claims to be the friend of Officer Wilson's wife.  It is completely unsubstantiated because the woman wishes to remain anonymous, and I thought nothing of it until that video/audio surfaced from the scene after this radio interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzBdY6WXeRE
“He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.

And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and them Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off.

Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

So, we're not really all that much closer to the truth, but we are further from many of the false narratives that simply cannot be substantiated by evidence, and therefore are not reasonable to accept.

I expect that the primary forensic report will not be released until toxicology is returned.  


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 12:18:22 pm
This is why I kept talking about just waiting. RM is talking about outrage, patric is taking the opportunity to talk about his issue: police abuse, and Harrison Alexernder calling it a stupid cop situation. Even if it turns out that there is something to be outraged about, can't the outrage wait until something other than a young African American male was killed?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on August 18, 2014, 12:20:50 pm
I'm thinking a tazer would have worked just fine in this situation. Barring of course if the big fat kid was outrunning the skinny cop. But it looks as if a couple of hot heads prevailed and boom goes the dynamite.  ::)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 18, 2014, 12:54:07 pm
One group throws a Molotov cocktail, while another rushes to put out the fire.  One group lives there, the other obviously doesnt.




Kids and grandkids live near there.  It is an area of known gang activity - a lot of it - and those gangs do live there.  Drive up Florissant from downtown and you will be in the bloods neighborhood.  You will see lots of red shirts.  Like CNN was showing last night.  

The peaceful protestors are all gone by 9 or 10.  It's gangs after that.

And then there is the comment - kinda garbled - about Brown jumping on the truck... the cop's suv??  Need more information....

Where are all the videos??   


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 18, 2014, 12:58:41 pm
This is why I kept talking about just waiting. RM is talking about outrage, patric is taking the opportunity to talk about his issue: police abuse, and Harrison Alexernder calling it a stupid cop situation. Even if it turns out that there is something to be outraged about, can't the outrage wait until something other than a young African American male was killed?

It makes no difference. There will be outrage.  Even if overwhelming evidence, video, audio, and physical shows the cop to be justified and acting in his own self defense, there will still be outrage.  Even if the officer is arrested and charged with murder, there will still be outrage. This is no longer about Brown (the human being).  This is about a pound of flesh.  This is raw emotion being fueled by those who stand to benefit from it. . .and now it is going to become political, because it has capital there too.  Brown is now a commodity to be bought and sold by those who do it best.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: tulsa_fan on August 18, 2014, 01:07:08 pm
It makes no difference. There will be outrage.  Even if overwhelming evidence, video, audio, and physical shows the cop to be justified and acting in his own self defense, there will still be outrage.  Even if the officer is arrested and charged with murder, there will still be outrage. This is no longer about Brown (the human being).  This is about a pound of flesh.  This is raw emotion being fueled by those who stand to benefit from it. . .and now it is going to become political, because it has capital there too.  Brown is now a commodity to be bought and sold by those who do it best.



Sadly, this is the most true statement I've heard about this entire incident!


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 18, 2014, 01:13:19 pm
It makes no difference. There will be outrage.  Even if overwhelming evidence, video, audio, and physical shows the cop to be justified and acting in his own self defense, there will still be outrage.  Even if the officer is arrested and charged with murder, there will still be outrage. This is no longer about Brown (the human being).  This is about a pound of flesh.  This is raw emotion being fueled by those who stand to benefit from it. . .and now it is going to become political, because it has capital there too.  Brown is now a commodity to be bought and sold by those who do it best.



And if no state charges are brought on the cop, I’m sure Eric Holder will be more than happy to oblige.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 18, 2014, 02:28:42 pm
And if no state charges are brought on the cop, I’m sure Eric Holder will be more than happy to oblige.

They are discussing it as we speak in the oval office.
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvVr4pXCQAAwLyD.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 18, 2014, 02:30:49 pm
Even if it turns out that there is something to be outraged about, can't the outrage wait until something other than a young African American male was killed?

Wait for what? A police internal investigation that they have said might take weeks and weeks?

I am not condoning five days of riots either.

But ignoring what appears to be at best a poorly trained cop who shot a suspect six times for shoplifting some cigars is wrong as well. Leaving the suspect body on the ground for hours and refusing to release the officer's name for days just added to the frustration.

But middle-aged white people living in south Tulsa must know all about what is must be to live in an inner city gangland neighborhood. Why else would you post video of him shoplifting as an excuse for his death?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 02:32:53 pm
Wait for what? A police internal investigation that they have said might take weeks and weeks?

I am not condoning five days of riots either.

But ignoring what appears to be at best a poorly trained cop who shot a suspect six times for shoplifting some cigars is wrong as well. Leaving the suspect body on the ground for hours and refusing to release the officer's name for days just added to the frustration.

But middle-aged white people living in south Tulsa must know all about what is must be to live in an inner city gangland neighborhood. Why else would you post video of him shoplifting as an excuse for his death?

Understood. Better to possibly overreact and scream outrage now. That way you are ahead of the game.  ::)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 18, 2014, 02:43:27 pm
I would rather see peaceful protests than anything. Unfortunately, that didn't and won't happen.

You seem to think everyone should just shut up and wait. Your view would have been to wait for the British Army to have weeks and weeks to explain their new tax on tea before acting.

I don't want to be British. The food sucks.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 02:48:40 pm
I would rather see peaceful protests than anything. Unfortunately, that didn't and won't happen.

You seem to think everyone should just shut up and wait. Your view would have been to wait for the British Army to have weeks and weeks to explain their new tax on tea before acting.

I don't want to be British. The food sucks.

Please RM, just stop. This is getting embarrassing.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 18, 2014, 02:52:49 pm
Please RM, just stop. This is getting embarrassing.

And you have no sense of humor.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 18, 2014, 02:53:08 pm
Probably worth some breakdown:

Wait for what? A police internal investigation that they have said might take weeks and weeks?

I am not condoning five days of riots either.

But ignoring what appears to be at best a poorly trained cop who shot a suspect six times for shoplifting some cigars is wrong as well. Leaving the suspect body on the ground for hours and refusing to release the officer's name for days just added to the frustration.

Comments to points in red:
According to his record, he had the same training as other officers on the force.
He was not aware of the theft at the time he stopped Brown for J-walking.
EMS was notified 4 minutes after the incident, and actually arrived just minutes after that because they were already in-route to another (lesser emergency) call.
At that point the scene was considered a homicide investigation. The body was left until homicide and forensics could complete their investigation.

But middle-aged white people living in south Tulsa must know all about what is must be to live in an inner city gangland neighborhood. Why else would you post video of him shoplifting as an excuse for his death?
Comments to points in red:
I don't think race qualifies or disqualifies anyone from voicing an opinion.  
Having lived not too far away from there, Ferguson is not a "gangland" neighborhood. Just because it is predominantly black does not make this true.
I think Gueed, myself and most everyone else on this forum stated that these were two separate and distinct events.  No one said, or otherwise implied that the robbery or assault of the convenience store clerk had any bearing on Brown's death or in any way justified the actions of the officer.

RM, is someone else posting on your account?  You are typically more reasonable than this.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 18, 2014, 02:58:13 pm
The president was 27 minutes late for his presser on Ferguson, but he actually did a very good job at addressing the issue and offered condemnation to those who are using this issue as an excuse to loot and pillage.

We did get a preview of how he intends to use this:
“In too many communities, young men of color are left behind, and seen only as objects to fear."



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 03:49:05 pm
Probably worth some breakdown:

RM, is someone else posting on your account?  You are typically more reasonable than this.


He was being funny. Get it? Hilarious stuff...


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 18, 2014, 04:20:04 pm
The last comment about British food was meant to be funny. Of course, you have no clue and just go ahead and post to attack everybody who disagrees with you.

Really, guido911. You sure seem dense sometimes. I think your want to be mean to me, Hoss, and others shows a real bad side of you. 


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 10:11:55 pm
The last comment about British food was meant to be funny. Of course, you have no clue and just go ahead and post to attack everybody who disagrees with you.

Really, guido911. You sure seem dense sometimes. I think your want to be mean to me, Hoss, and others shows a real bad side of you.  

Yes. That's right. I'm being all sorts of mean by telling people to be patient and calm while the situation in Ferguson plays out. You on the other hand want to be outraged. Do you ever listen to yourself, or to that little voice that most of us have? For now, if being "dense" means I am willing to wait for the facts to come out, then I can live with that "insult".

Anyway, more NEWS coming in fro, the St. L. Post crime reporter.

https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/status/501556693382094848


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: YoungTulsan on August 18, 2014, 10:17:45 pm
[youtube]ddV-VUyMMCA[/youtube]

Looks like a new model store was a little too close to the action for QT's comfort.

Edit - The story itself doesn't state this, but the video description on Youtube indicates that they are boarding and fencing up the "majority" of QuikTrips in the area.   Wow.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 10:24:45 pm
[youtube]ddV-VUyMMCA[/youtube]

Looks like a new model store was a little too close to the action for QT's comfort.

Edit - The story itself doesn't state this, but the video description on Youtube indicates that they are boarding and fencing up the "majority" of QuikTrips in the area.   Wow.

You are right. Wow.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 18, 2014, 10:43:32 pm
And it keeps getting worse.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/kkk-announces-fundraiser-in-sullivan-mo-this-weekend/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 19, 2014, 10:02:42 am

So, we're not really all that much closer to the truth, but we are further from many of the false narratives that simply cannot be substantiated by evidence, and therefore are not reasonable to accept.

Well put.

The anonymous-radio-show-caller didnt even make it past this credibility roadblock:

FERGUSON, Mo. - The police officer that stopped and eventually shot and killed an 18-year-old last weekend had no idea the teen was a suspect in a convenience store robbery just minutes prior, the Ferguson police chief said Friday.
http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/ferguson-chief-officer-didnt-know-about-robbery/14124259/



Among all the BS, this stood out as fairly reasoned:

Michael Brown is not a perfect martyr; he doesn't have to be. Neither was Rodney King. Both became unwitting symbols of injustice and, in the process, performed a painful but valuable public service.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-banks-ferguson-violence-20140819-column.html

Law enforcement officials need a strategy that offers the promise of justice and doesn't limit the rights of law-abiding protesters because some fools act up.
... I'm not judging Ferguson by a handful of hoodlums, but by the residents who risked their safety and stood between looters and the stores they tried to ransack, and the volunteers who showed up every morning to comfort business owners and sweep up broken glass.






Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 19, 2014, 01:27:36 pm
For what it's worth, there are reports that the cop got an orbital bone fracture.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 19, 2014, 06:42:45 pm

So, where are all the videos of the confrontation?? 

Lets just say a LOT of people are waiting to get their cell phones back.....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 19, 2014, 07:13:26 pm
Lets just say a LOT of people are waiting to get their cell phones back.....


Saw two last night that said they had just gotten their phones back....




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 19, 2014, 09:49:31 pm
In Johnson's account, the officer opened fire on Brown after he refused to move from the middle of the street.  He also alleges that the officer grabbed brown around the neck and choked him. Brown then tried to pull away to avoid being choked, Johnson says.

Barring an earth-shattering about-face, everything police say is going to have to rest on the foundation of the shooter's original statement, that he was "afraid he was going for my gun."

That police initially spent so little effort on their justification story must be the biggest insult, but why would they have needed to do otherwise when that rehearsed tome works so well and without question everywhere else (including Tulsa)?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 20, 2014, 04:08:10 pm
Barring an earth-shattering about-face, everything police say is going to have to rest on the foundation of the shooter's original statement, that he was "afraid he was going for my gun."

That police initially spent so little effort on their justification story must be the biggest insult, but why would they have needed to do otherwise when that rehearsed tome works so well and without question everywhere else (including Tulsa)?


And the eye witness accounts that Brown was doing something in the police vehicle...?  Piaget something was the name, I think....

And exactly how did the cop get the busted eye socket?  That's a heavy, hard impact.....and yeah, I've seen them broken before - it is NOT a bump somewhere inside a car during a "tussle".

We now know for a fact that Johnson has lied about everything the entire time.  I'm also thinking the picture of Brown pointing a gun at the camera with a bottle of Hawaiian Punch and some kind of booze next to him kinda takes away from the whole "gentle giant" scenario.  Convenience store video didn't help that either.

We need to see the videos that were erased before the cops got hold of the phones - showing the confrontation.  Wonder if the phone companies can retrieve those?  NSA should be able to help.....







Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 21, 2014, 08:41:31 am

And the eye witness accounts that Brown was doing something in the police vehicle...?  Piaget something was the name, I think....

And exactly how did the cop get the busted eye socket?  That's a heavy, hard impact.....and yeah, I've seen them broken before - it is NOT a bump somewhere inside a car during a "tussle".

We now know for a fact that Johnson has lied about everything the entire time.  I'm also thinking the picture of Brown pointing a gun at the camera with a bottle of Hawaiian Punch and some kind of booze next to him kinda takes away from the whole "gentle giant" scenario.  Convenience store video didn't help that either.

We need to see the videos that were erased before the cops got hold of the phones - showing the confrontation.  Wonder if the phone companies can retrieve those?  NSA should be able to help.....


An orbital fracture requires an extremely violent impact and usually results in a hematoma behind the eye that if not treated can cause blindness. Most of the time we used to see these with very violent automobile accidents.  Bare-fisted fighting is probably the second most common cause, but is typically uncommon because the flexibility of the human neck absorbs the energy.  That's why you don't see too many orbital fractures in boxing. 

You do see them in hockey and in assault cases quite frequently though.  This is because in hockey, the back of the head is in many cases against the glass preventing the neck from moving and absorbing the energy.  In assaults/beatings, the victim frequently become pinned on the ground or a wall stabilizing the head.  A lot like a fingerprint, the x-ray of the fracture will easily indicate to a forensic specialist the size, force, and even the trajectory of the object.  They should even be able to identify the knuckle or proximal phalange that made impact. 

Because of the force used, the assailant will also display bruising to the fist or fingers.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on August 21, 2014, 10:37:42 am
Heavy Elbow....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: swake on August 21, 2014, 10:54:19 am

And the eye witness accounts that Brown was doing something in the police vehicle...?  Piaget something was the name, I think....

And exactly how did the cop get the busted eye socket?  That's a heavy, hard impact.....and yeah, I've seen them broken before - it is NOT a bump somewhere inside a car during a "tussle".

We now know for a fact that Johnson has lied about everything the entire time.  I'm also thinking the picture of Brown pointing a gun at the camera with a bottle of Hawaiian Punch and some kind of booze next to him kinda takes away from the whole "gentle giant" scenario.  Convenience store video didn't help that either.

We need to see the videos that were erased before the cops got hold of the phones - showing the confrontation.  Wonder if the phone companies can retrieve those?  NSA should be able to help.....

That photo wasn't brown. And where did you see that about the eye socket?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: AngieB on August 21, 2014, 11:22:33 am
That photo wasn't brown. And where did you see that about the eye socket?

https://news.google.com/news?ncl=deZczG9KrhXwd2MXRkP1xqk2vGSGM&q=eye+fracture+police+officer&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tyr2U5Ibl7PIBOe0gqAM&ved=0CCsQqgIwAA


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: swake on August 21, 2014, 12:01:55 pm
https://news.google.com/news?ncl=deZczG9KrhXwd2MXRkP1xqk2vGSGM&q=eye+fracture+police+officer&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tyr2U5Ibl7PIBOe0gqAM&ved=0CCsQqgIwAA


I checked, and the source for that story is a right wing blog known for putting out crap called The gateway pundit. The photo attached has already been shown to not be of Wilson. The New York Post picked up the story and it has spread.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

I'm not saying it's incorrect, I'm saying that it's highly likely this is incorrect. And seeing how the police have been all over trying to prove they are in the right, if this was true I would think that this story would have been out long before now.  

I'm not ready to say who is in the right or wrong here. But the police and Wilson are NOT playing fair or being open with the facts. I really want to know if there was gunshot residue on brown's clothing since there wasn't any on his body. Why has the video of the robbery been released but not the official autopsy?

In the video after the shooting Wilson certainly isn't acting injured.

The video is at this link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/new-video-purports-to-show-the-moments-after-michael-browns-death/

Here are screen grabs of Wilson from the video. That's brown in the street.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/18/1408384632158_Image_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing_Darr.JPG)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/18/1408384788955_Image_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing.JPG)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/18/1408384912830_Image_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing_Darr.JPG)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 21, 2014, 12:50:13 pm
I checked, and the source for that story is a right wing blog known for putting out crap called The gateway pundit. The photo attached has already been shown to not be of Wilson. The New York Post picked up the story and it has spread.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

I'm not saying it's incorrect, I'm saying that it's highly likely this is incorrect. And seeing how the police have been all over trying to prove they are in the right, if this was true I would think that this story would have been out long before now.  

I'm not ready to say who is in the right or wrong here. But the police and Wilson are NOT playing fair or being open with the facts. I really want to know if there was gunshot residue on brown's clothing since there wasn't any on his body. Why has the video of the robbery been released but not the official autopsy?

In the video after the shooting Wilson certainly isn't acting injured.

The video is at this link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/new-video-purports-to-show-the-moments-after-michael-browns-death/

Here are screen grabs of Wilson from the video. That's brown in the street.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/18/1408384632158_Image_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing_Darr.JPG)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/18/1408384788955_Image_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing.JPG)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/18/1408384912830_Image_galleryImage_Darren_Wilson_pacing_Darr.JPG)

I’ve never shot a 6’ 4” 280 pound thug right after he beat the smile out of me, so not really sure I’m at liberty to say how the officer should be acting or reacting at that moment.

Here’s one thing we do know from the private autopsy the family had done: Dr. Baden says all the entrance wounds are to the front of the body which debunks any claims he was running from the officer when he was shot.

If the cop was injured, there will be a paper trail if he was treated for his injuries. 

People don’t seem to understand though, it takes time to sift through evidence and every single claim of eyewitnesses.  Everyone is of the mistaken idea that justice can happen in an instant, it’s just not the case.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: swake on August 21, 2014, 01:48:35 pm
I’ve never shot a 6’ 4” 280 pound thug right after he beat the smile out of me, so not really sure I’m at liberty to say how the officer should be acting or reacting at that moment.

Here’s one thing we do know from the private autopsy the family had done: Dr. Baden says all the entrance wounds are to the front of the body which debunks any claims he was running from the officer when he was shot.

If the cop was injured, there will be a paper trail if he was treated for his injuries. 

People don’t seem to understand though, it takes time to sift through evidence and every single claim of eyewitnesses.  Everyone is of the mistaken idea that justice can happen in an instant, it’s just not the case.
That's why I'm shocked they are already before a grand jury.

Wilson certainly could have been in shock and I do agree, if that injury is real it will come out and is a very big deal. It's the same with the gunshot residue.

The private autopsy does show he didn't have his back to the shooter, in spite of what witnesses said, but that autopsy also said that there was no gunshot residue on the body and all the wounds appeared to be from a distance. The pathologist didn't have access to the clothing to be sure, however. That's going to be the two biggest parts of the evidence. Was the cop actually assaulted and how far away was Brown when he was shot.

I myself want to follow the physical evidence more than the cop's statement or eyewitness accounts.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 21, 2014, 02:29:46 pm
That's why I'm shocked they are already before a grand jury.

Wilson certainly could have been in shock and I do agree, if that injury is real it will come out and is a very big deal. It's the same with the gunshot residue.

The private autopsy does show he didn't have his back to the shooter, in spite of what witnesses said, but that autopsy also said that there was no gunshot residue on the body and all the wounds appeared to be from a distance. The pathologist didn't have access to the clothing to be sure, however. That's going to be the two biggest parts of the evidence. Was the cop actually assaulted and how far away was Brown when he was shot.

I myself want to follow the physical evidence more than the cop's statement or eyewitness accounts.

Considering the tensions, I’m not that surprised they are already feeding evidence to a grand jury.  It’s at least doing something to show they are interested in getting to the bottom of what happened and that they are letting citizens help form the basis for whatever charges may or may not be forthcoming.

If no charges are filed, I hope it is clearly spelled out why because there will be outrage.

One problem which is obvious, is many “witnesses” didn’t even come out of their apartments until after they heard gunfire, then it becomes:

“What happened?”

“I dunno, that cop just shot that guy”

“What for?”

“I dunno, I think he was just minding his business and the cop shot him.  I didn’t really see it but that’s what it looks like.” 

Then it suddenly becomes a bunch of inaccurate “eyewitness” accounts which were actually second or thirdhand accounts.

Reportedly, there’s been over a dozen witnesses who corroborate Wilson’s account. 

I agree, the clothing evidence will be of interest in getting to the bottom of it as well as evidence of injuries to Wilson.  I’m curious if the clothing was shared with the feds for their autopsy.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: swake on August 21, 2014, 02:55:44 pm
Considering the tensions, I’m not that surprised they are already feeding evidence to a grand jury.  It’s at least doing something to show they are interested in getting to the bottom of what happened and that they are letting citizens help form the basis for whatever charges may or may not be forthcoming.

If no charges are filed, I hope it is clearly spelled out why because there will be outrage.

One problem which is obvious, is many “witnesses” didn’t even come out of their apartments until after they heard gunfire, then it becomes:

“What happened?”

“I dunno, that cop just shot that guy”

“What for?”

“I dunno, I think he was just minding his business and the cop shot him.  I didn’t really see it but that’s what it looks like.”  

Then it suddenly becomes a bunch of inaccurate “eyewitness” accounts which were actually second or thirdhand accounts.

Reportedly, there’s been over a dozen witnesses who corroborate Wilson’s account.  

I agree, the clothing evidence will be of interest in getting to the bottom of it as well as evidence of injuries to Wilson.  I’m curious if the clothing was shared with the feds for their autopsy.

I'm sure it would be easy to line up 50 witnesses from the Nation of Islam and 50 KKK grand wizards to all say they saw the whole thing.

I'm not saying all the witnesses are fake, but figuring who really did and did not see what happened has to be a nightmare and probably impossible at this point.

I heard something interesting on NPR earlier. Of the hundreds of people arrested, only seven are actually from Ferguson. Mo.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 21, 2014, 04:31:31 pm
I think there should be a lesson about waiting for the facts, but why waste time on something stupid like that. Better to jut go completely off the rails. Today, we learned there may not have been a blow out fx, but there was swelling to the officer's face. And, the big eyewitness (Dorian Johnson) of the shooting has dirt under his nails.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1423197/michael-brown-shooting-key-witness-charged-with-filing-false-police-report-dorian-johnson/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 21, 2014, 04:48:10 pm
That's why I'm shocked they are already before a grand jury.

Wilson certainly could have been in shock and I do agree, if that injury is real it will come out and is a very big deal. It's the same with the gunshot residue.

The private autopsy does show he didn't have his back to the shooter, in spite of what witnesses said, but that autopsy also said that there was no gunshot residue on the body and all the wounds appeared to be from a distance. The pathologist didn't have access to the clothing to be sure, however. That's going to be the two biggest parts of the evidence. Was the cop actually assaulted and how far away was Brown when he was shot.

I myself want to follow the physical evidence more than the cop's statement or eyewitness accounts.


All the autopsies showed shot from front.  All showed no residue.  The family report said distance could be 1 - 2 ft or 30 ft.  No way to tell.

I have had residue land on me from over 2 feet away, so that statement was kind of odd.

There is that one video where the guy said Brown was heading toward Wilson when he was shot.





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 21, 2014, 06:14:20 pm
I'm sure it would be easy to line up 50 witnesses from the Nation of Islam and 50 KKK grand wizards to all say they saw the whole thing.

I'm not saying all the witnesses are fake, but figuring who really did and did not see what happened has to be a nightmare and probably impossible at this point.

I heard something interesting on NPR earlier. Of the hundreds of people arrested, only seven are actually from Ferguson. Mo.



Kansas City, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, New York.  Many of them out late at night wearing red.  Some families who just "had to come"....


Here is an interesting thing...the two family guys can't even seem to agree.  But one is only an assistant....the one saying the bullet came from the back.  But then the real doctor said it was from the front.....

http://news.yahoo.com/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire-172036981.html



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 22, 2014, 06:17:29 am


Kansas City, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, New York.  Many of them out late at night wearing red.  Some families who just "had to come"....


Here is an interesting thing...the two family guys can't even seem to agree.  But one is only an assistant....the one saying the bullet came from the back.  But then the real doctor said it was from the front.....

http://news.yahoo.com/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire-172036981.html



CNN now has a "source close to the investigation" that says the allegations of an eye socket fracture are false. 

I am amazed at how news agencies are all taking sides on this event and all content to report conjecture without evidence. 

For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone has any faith in any news organization any more.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: TheArtist on August 22, 2014, 06:58:54 am
CNN now has a "source close to the investigation" that says the allegations of an eye socket fracture are false. 

I am amazed at how news agencies are all taking sides on this event and all content to report conjecture without evidence. 

For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone has any faith in any news organization any more.

They would rather be entertained so they can get a quick emotional rush.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2014, 08:34:56 am
I can only report on what I saw on the CNN videos that one night where stuff started up about 11 pm.  From several cameras.  There were a lot of red shirts running around, with a sprinkling of dark blue/black - tough to tell in the bad lighting.  And a few white t-shirts.

That corresponds very closely with what family in the area has told me.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on August 23, 2014, 03:30:38 pm


That corresponds very closely with what family in the area has told me.


My friends and family in that area are really ticked over the biased coverage, favoring the Brown side of the story. Personally, this whole event has proven what can happen when people's instant passions/agendas get in the way of truth.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 24, 2014, 11:01:36 am
My friends and family in that area are really ticked over the biased coverage, favoring the Brown side of the story. Personally, this whole event has proven what can happen when people's instant passions/agendas get in the way of truth.




Mixed bag with my group - all agree about the gang bangers out at night causing all the trouble, though.  No doubt about that - you can see it in the film and no matter how biased the news, when they show red, that means bloods.  Blue is crips.  No ambiguity at all.

I keep telling both sides - wait until the whole story is out....



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 25, 2014, 06:31:13 am
All circumstances surrounding Brown's death aside, why is the White House sending representation to attend his funeral? 
They don't do that for many of the high-ranking members of the military killed in the line of duty.
They don't do that for police or firefighters who are killed in the course of saving lives.
They don't do that for inventors, or industry leaders to better the lives of millions.

But a guy who robbed a convince store, and got shot either fleeing, or attacking a cop gets such honors.

The White House is not just sending one, but 3 officials to attend.  Broderick Johnson, Marlon Marshall, and Heather Foster will all be present to honor and celebrate the life of Michael Brown.

Politics twists reason.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 25, 2014, 09:05:49 am
All circumstances surrounding Brown's death aside, why is the White House sending representation to attend his funeral? 
They don't do that for many of the high-ranking members of the military killed in the line of duty.
They don't do that for police or firefighters who are killed in the course of saving lives.
They don't do that for inventors, or industry leaders to better the lives of millions.

But a guy who robbed a convince store, and got shot either fleeing, or attacking a cop gets such honors.

The White House is not just sending one, but 3 officials to attend.  Broderick Johnson, Marlon Marshall, and Heather Foster will all be present to honor and celebrate the life of Michael Brown.

Politics twists reason.

They claim that Marshall went to school with Brown’s mother.  Al Sharpton is giving the eulogy, I’m sure that won’t be racially-charged.

Oh, does anyone know if the White House sent anyone to Major General Harold Greene’s funeral?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on August 25, 2014, 09:26:24 am
They claim that Marshall went to school with Brown’s mother.  Al Sharpton is giving the eulogy, I’m sure that won’t be racially-charged.

Oh, does anyone know if the White House sent anyone to Major General Harold Greene’s funeral?

No, but White House Spokesman Josh Earnest made this statement:
"While we have made tremendous progress in disrupting, dismantling and defeating al Qaeda operations and leadership in Afghanistan and progress in winding down U.S. involvement in that conflict, this shooting, of course, is a painful reminder of the service and sacrifice that our men and women in uniform make every day for this country."

It was nice that the White House could use Greene's death to highlight their "tremendous progress."


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on August 25, 2014, 09:58:10 am
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee. How much more one sided information can these people be listening to?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2733579/Michael-Browns-family-prepares-lay-rest.html

OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE! How dare them! Kim and her Sister texting during a tribute to Michael Brown. OK wait...I thought they were married to Black Men? OUTRAGE!....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2733818/Outrage-Kardashian-sisters-TEXTING-chatting-MTV-VMAs-solemn-moment-silence-Michael-Brown.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on August 25, 2014, 02:37:56 pm
They claim that Marshall went to school with Brown’s mother.  Al Sharpton is giving the eulogy, I’m sure that won’t be racially-charged.

Oh, does anyone know if the White House sent anyone to Major General Harold Greene’s funeral?

I think they sent the postmaster general if memory serves me correctly.............


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on August 25, 2014, 03:01:39 pm
I heard snippets of $harpton’$ eulogy.  He ripped into the police.

Transcripted (more or less) here:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/michael-brown-funeral-al-sharpton-110315.html

If assault on the cop is proven in the investigation, $harpton will look like an idiot.  Wait....what?

You can pretty much expect to end up on the wrong end of a Glock when you assault an LEO. 



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on August 25, 2014, 04:01:31 pm
I heard snippets of $harpton’$ eulogy.  He ripped into the police.

Transcripted (more or less) here:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/michael-brown-funeral-al-sharpton-110315.html

If assault on the cop is proven in the investigation, $harpton will look like an idiot.  Wait....what?

You can pretty much expect to end up on the wrong end of a Glock when you assault an LEO. 



Racist.....!!!!!


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on August 26, 2014, 01:28:23 pm
Waffle House is no longer safe for Whites after Ferguson. Will this cause riots in the streets? I think not.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2734860/Ex-Marine-left-brain-injury-pal-told-Waffle-House-wasn-t-safe-following-Ferguson-case-attacked-mob-20-people-parking-lot.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 06, 2014, 07:42:51 pm
I checked, and the source for that story is a right wing blog known for putting out crap called The gateway pundit. The photo attached has already been shown to not be of Wilson. The New York Post picked up the story and it has spread.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

I'm not saying it's incorrect, I'm saying that it's highly likely this is incorrect. And seeing how the police have been all over trying to prove they are in the right, if this was true I would think that this story would have been out long before now.  

I'm not ready to say who is in the right or wrong here. But the police and Wilson are NOT playing fair or being open with the facts. I really want to know if there was gunshot residue on brown's clothing since there wasn't any on his body. Why has the video of the robbery been released but not the official autopsy?

In the video after the shooting Wilson certainly isn't acting injured.



Police efforts to villify the victim continue

http://www.eurthisnthat.com/2014/09/05/desperate-attempts-to-manipulate-public-bring-out-bogus-injury-photo-of-ferguson-cop/

while the killers' dark history slowly emerges

http://news.yahoo.com/attorney-ferguson-police-officer-darren-wilson-roughed-up-drug-suspect-231634921.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on September 06, 2014, 08:18:32 pm

while the killers' dark history slowly emerges


That’s pretty lame, even by your standards.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on September 06, 2014, 09:30:19 pm
That’s pretty lame, even by your standards.

No kidding. And wow, I guess its okay to vilify the cop by alleged prior acts, but mention that Brown was shady and "Oh my God, how dare you!"


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on September 08, 2014, 08:18:29 am
After reviewing the evidence, Holder is now going after the "policies and procedures" of the Ferguson police department. 

It's obvious that Holder must be part of the grand police conspiracy now since he did not charge Wilson with Murder.
Either that or he found out Wilson used a gun that was part of the Fast & Furious program.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 08, 2014, 07:04:16 pm
I guess its okay to vilify the cop by alleged prior acts, but mention that Brown was shady and "Oh my God, how dare you!"
It was the Department that fired the first character assassination round, mister smokescreen, and kept on shooting.




Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/workers-who-were-witnesses-provide-new-perspective-on-michael-brown/article_14a3e5f8-6c6a-5deb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html


Quote
Among the claims that ignited the fury over the fatal shooting of Michael Brown were that Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson chased the unarmed teen on foot, shot at him as he ran away, then fired a barrage of fatal shots after Brown had turned around with his hands up.

Almost all of the witnesses who shared these accounts with media either knew Brown; lived at or near the Canfield Green apartments, where the shooting occurred; or were visiting friends or relatives there.

But there were two outsiders who happened to be working outside at the apartment complex on Aug. 9 — two men from a company in Jefferson County — who heard a single gunshot, looked up from their work and witnessed the shooting.

Both have given their statements to the St. Louis County police and the FBI. One of the men agreed to share his account with a Post-Dispatch reporter on the condition that his name and employer not be used.

The worker, who has not previously spoken with reporters, said he did not see what happened at the officer’s car — where Wilson and Brown engaged in an initial struggle and a shot was fired from Wilson’s gun.

His account largely matches those who reported that Wilson chased Brown on foot away from the car after the initial gunshot and fired at least one more shot in the direction of Brown as he was fleeing; that Brown stopped, turned around and put his hands up; and that the officer killed Brown in a barrage of gunfire.

But his account does little to clarify perhaps the most critical moment of the confrontation, on which members of the grand jury in St. Louis County may focus to determine whether the officer was justified in using lethal force: whether Brown moved toward Wilson just before the fatal shots, and if he did, how aggressively.

At least one witness has said Brown was not moving. Others didn’t mention him moving, while still others have said he was heading toward Wilson.

There is no way to determine how many witnesses have spoken to law enforcement without making public statements. The worker acknowledged that his account could be valuable to the case because he did not know either Brown or Wilson and had no ties to Ferguson.

The worker said he saw Brown on Aug. 9 about 11 a.m. as Brown was walking west on Canfield Drive, toward West Florissant Avenue.

He said Brown struck up a rambling, half-hour conversation with his co-worker.

The co-worker could not be reached for comment through his employer. He previously told KTVI (Channel 2) that he had uttered a profanity in frustration after hitting a tree root while digging. Brown heard him and stopped to talk.

Brown “told me he was feeling some bad vibes,” the co-worker told KTVI in a video that aired Aug. 12. “That the Lord Jesus Christ would help me through that as long as I didn’t get all angry at what I was doing.”

The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch said he paid attention to little of the conversation. He said he heard Brown tell his co-worker that he had a picture of Jesus on his wall; and the co-worker joked that the devil had a picture of him on the wall.

The co-worker told KTVI that Brown promised to come back and resume their conversation; Brown walked away, and the workers returned to their job.

About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, “OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.” He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.

A private autopsy showed that all but one of his gunshot wounds came while Brown was facing Wilson. Shawn L. Parcells, who participated in the autopsy, said one of the wounds to the arm could have occurred when Brown was facing away from Wilson. “It’s inconclusive,” he said. St. Louis County and federal autopsy results have not been released.

Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”

Among people who have spoken to the media, there hasn’t been a clear consensus on what happened after Brown turned around.

Dorian Johnson — a friend of Brown’s who said he was walking with him when Wilson approached them on Canfield and told them to get off the street — told CNN that Brown was “beginning to tell the officer he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting.” Johnson, 22, told KTVI Brown was starting to get down when he was shot.

Johnson also told MSNBC that Wilson began shooting before Brown “could get his last words out.”

Another witness who lives nearby, Michael T. Brady, 32, told CNN that Brown turned with his hands under his stomach. He also said Brown took one or two steps toward Wilson as he was going down when Wilson fired three or four more times.

Piaget Crenshaw, who lives in the Canfield apartments, and Tiffany Mitchell, her boss, were in different places in the complex. Crenshaw told CNN that Brown didn’t move toward Wilson. In several statements to reporters, neither has mentioned Brown moving toward Wilson.

The New York Times quoted James McKnight as saying Brown stumbled toward Wilson, who was 6 to 7 feet away.

Phillip Walker, 40, another Canfield Green resident, told the Post-Dispatch on Tuesday that Brown was walking at a steady pace toward Wilson, with his hands up. “Not quickly,” Walker said. “He did not rush the officer.” Walker, who is distantly related to a Post-Dispatch reporter not involved in this report, said the last shot, into the top of Brown’s head, was from about 4 feet away.

“It wasn’t justified because he didn’t pose no threat to the officer. I don’t understand why he didn’t Tase him if he deemed him to be hostile. He didn’t have no weapon on him. I was confused on why he was shooting his rounds off like that into this individual,” Walker said.

The co-worker in the KTVI interview said he “starting hearing pops and when I look over … I seen somebody staggering and running. And when he finally caught himself he threw his hands up and started screaming, ‘OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.’”

He said the officer “didn’t say, ‘Get on the ground.’ He didn’t say anything. At first his gun was down and then he … got about 8 to 10 feet away from him … I heard six, seven shots … it seemed like seven. Then he put his gun down. That’s when Michael stumbled forward. I’d say about 25 feet or so and then fell right on his face.”

No witness has ever publicly claimed that Brown charged at Wilson. The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch disputed claims by Wilson’s defenders that Brown was running full speed at the officer.

“I don’t know if he was going after him or if he was falling down to die,” he said. “It wasn’t a bull rush.”









Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 08, 2014, 08:39:35 pm
It was the Department that fired the first character assassination round, mister smokescreen, and kept on shooting.




Not really.  We saw some days of everyone "piling on" the cop before any alternate commentary came about.  And Brown's partner was proven a liar very early on.
 Still don't have the whole story.   Just like resistance - conjecture is futile!




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 12, 2014, 10:49:33 pm

And Brown's partner was proven a liar very early on.



According to who?  The department that wants to publish the victim's grade school records to somehow prove he was deserving to be shot?  Or maybe this zombie walking around yelling that he's going to f*ing kill people?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YknrZE0CCYE[/youtube]



Independent witnesses are not backing up the police story.

Quote
    "The cop didn't say get on the ground. He just kept shooting," the contractor said.

    That same witness described the gruesome scene, saying he saw Brown's "brains come out of his head," again stating, "his hands were up."

    ...

    The other contractor told CNN he saw Brown running away from a police car.

    Brown "put his hands up," the construction worker said, and "the officer was chasing him."

    The contractor says he saw Wilson fire a shot at Brown while his back was turned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/10/michael-brown-witnesses_n_5801330.html
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/09/10/ac-dnt-kaye-new-michael-brown-witness.cnn.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 15, 2014, 12:47:35 am

According to who?  The department that wants to publish the victim's grade school records to somehow prove he was deserving to be shot?  Or maybe this zombie walking around yelling that he's going to f*ing kill people?


Independent witnesses are not backing up the police story.





According to anyone with enough mental horsepower to listen to him saying they shot Brown in the back while running away, and then autopsies showing he was not.  Which one of those are you gonna believe??

Witnesses saying that he was not running away, but facing toward the cop.  And the longer it goes on, the more a liar he is proven to be.  Which is not the same as saying the cop was justified - it just says the loudest mouth "witness" so far has been shown to be a liar.

Like I have said before, still not enough valid, dependable information yet.  Will probably get a better picture after grand jury done.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on September 15, 2014, 10:21:34 am

According to anyone with enough mental horsepower to listen to him saying they shot Brown in the back while running away, and then autopsies showing he was not.

There were enough slugs pulled from neighbor's homes to account for the ones that didnt enter his body, so that doesnt necessarily invalidate multiple, independent witness statements that the victim was fired upon while fleeing.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 15, 2014, 11:37:54 am
There were enough slugs pulled from neighbor's homes to account for the ones that didnt enter his body, so that doesnt necessarily invalidate multiple, independent witness statements that the victim was fired upon while fleeing.


Point taken.  But the two most credible so far - the construction guys - say he was walking toward the cop while the firing going on.  Plus, most of the shots on the autopsy form could and probably would have gone on through and traveled a while more - especially the arm.







Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2014, 11:41:20 pm
There were enough slugs pulled from neighbor's homes to account for the ones that didnt enter his body, so that doesnt necessarily invalidate multiple, independent witness statements that the victim was fired upon while fleeing.


Stray slugs don’t validate them either.  Correct?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Red Arrow on September 16, 2014, 06:28:00 am
There were enough slugs pulled from neighbor's homes to account for the ones that didnt enter his body, so that doesnt necessarily invalidate multiple, independent witness statements that the victim was fired upon while fleeing.

Were all the bullets matched to police weapons?



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2014, 07:40:23 am
Were all the bullets matched to police weapons?




Leftovers from previous gang activities....?


This is not middle class suburbia area.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on September 16, 2014, 08:45:09 am

Leftovers from previous gang activities....?


This is not middle class suburbia area.



In some of those homes, the bullets are the only thing holding them together.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2014, 09:12:17 am
Interesting take on cops....I bet Ferguson PD is wishing they had something like this!  Or maybe not....


http://toprightnews.com/?p=5854


Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: saintnicster on September 16, 2014, 10:53:24 am
Interesting take on cops....I bet Ferguson PD is wishing they had something like this!  Or maybe not....


http://toprightnews.com/?p=5854

Don't you know? Cams can only be used as evidence against the police, not work for them...


Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2014, 12:34:17 pm
Don't you know? Cams can only be used as evidence against the police, not work for them...


Bah, humbug!  Cops are just like real people...almost...so there can be bad ones and there can be less bad ones.  And there are even a few good ones!  Just like the rest of us!!



Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 16, 2014, 06:22:11 pm
Don't you know? Cams can only be used as evidence against the police, not work for them...


 
“In all these stops Trooper Roberts turned off his camera and his mic."

Roberts could face a charge of second-degree rape, two counts of rape by instrumentation, two counts of kidnapping, two counts of indecent exposure, one count of forcible oral sodomy and three counts of sexual battery.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/ohp-trooper-arrested-kidnapping-sexual-allegations/nhMyX/







Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on September 16, 2014, 08:03:30 pm

 
“In all these stops Trooper Roberts turned off his camera and his mic."

Roberts could face a charge of second-degree rape, two counts of rape by instrumentation, two counts of kidnapping, two counts of indecent exposure, one count of forcible oral sodomy and three counts of sexual battery.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/ohp-trooper-arrested-kidnapping-sexual-allegations/nhMyX/



What does this have to do with the Ferguson incident?


Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on September 17, 2014, 09:15:30 am
What does this have to do with the Ferguson incident?

Mmm cops are bad.  Mkay
(http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c1/500x1000px-LL-c131ae1b_images.jpeg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on September 17, 2014, 12:48:56 pm
Don't you know? Cams can only be used as evidence against the police, not work for them...

Maybe that's what the United States District Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma was thinking four years ago?

As far as being able to freely stop and start dashcam recordings at will; that sort of on-the-fly editing just adds more suspicion.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on October 03, 2014, 06:50:34 pm
FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) — About a dozen protesters were jailed after being arrested during Thursday's protests in Ferguson, and it has some local officials and rights groups questioning if police overreached.

A small number of people gathered outside Ferguson police headquarters, and just before midnight, officers began moving toward the protesters, who were chanting, used plastic restraints on their wrists and put them in a van, according to Gabrielle Hanson, who was at the scene while her mother, CNN freelancer Mary Moore, shot video. Moore was arrested, Hanson was not.

The reason for the arrests wasn't immediately clear. Patricia Bynes, a Democratic committeewoman from the Ferguson area who was at the protest, said protesters were cited for violating a noise ordinance.

“What a remarkable display of making your own rules as you go,” said Bynes. “They took the journalist who was doing her job and wasn’t involved.”

The protesters were taken to a jail in neighboring St. Ann, and some were placed on 24-hour hold, Bynes said.

"Holding people unnecessarily long, arresting them when it's not necessary — that's an indication of overreach," ACLU attorney Rothert said. "It certainly appears that the purpose is to discourage people from coming to Ferguson to protest."

Hundreds of people have been arrested during nearly two months of protests in Ferguson, including journalists and clergy. The Rev. Osagyefo Sekou was arrested Monday after he sat down on the sidewalk with other protesters and was charged with failure to disperse — a misdemeanor that is the most common charge protesters have faced.

Hanson said Moore was shooting video of the arrests for CNN when officers confiscated her news camera.

Hanson said the family had received no explanation from police, and that she had not heard from her mother as of Friday morning.

"Nobody really knows what's going on," she said.


Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 06, 2014, 03:14:18 pm
Mmm cops are bad.  Mkay



Just because you haven't experienced the "thrill" yet, doesn't mean it ain't happening.... in a big way....way too often!


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 08, 2014, 08:42:06 pm
Freaky Wednesday in OKC this afternoon!  It is wild west shootout at the OK(C) corral day!!  I'm staying tonight about 1/2 mile from the shooting this afternoon.  Have been listening to sirens and watching news helicopters all evening hovering around.  Almost thought about walking over to see what was going on, but that would have meant walking over to see what was going on....    Looks like there were 5 or 6 total involved in this shooting/carjacking scenario.  One woman killed - probably the hostage, couple cops wounded, couple punks wounded, 3 or 4 more arrested.

I'm betting drug involvement somewhere along the line....

Luckily, I know some side roads....saw the roadblocks but didn't get slowed down.

Cops are like everyone else - some good, some bad, some just regular people -  there were some good ones out there today!  



Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on October 18, 2014, 04:59:04 pm

Just because you haven't experienced the "thrill" yet, doesn't mean it ain't happening.... in a big way....way too often!



BREAKING NEWS:  Cop uses stock phrase to excuse deadly force.             Shocker.


Quote
You are walking, and someone pulls up to you close enough to reach out and grab you.
In their other hand, you notice a gun, and you have a split second to save your life.
Would you react by trying to push the gun away, or even try to grab it?
The cop was the only one with a gun in his hand, so keep in mind who was actually in fear for thier life.






Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on October 20, 2014, 09:50:30 am
He's coming back for round two. But it's not racist.  ::)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2799230/al-sharpton-returning-ferguson-four-days-order-draw-national-attention-death-unarmed-st-louis-teenager-michael-brown.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on October 20, 2014, 11:36:21 pm
A bit of a sidebar, but relevant:

This weekend’s outbreak of pumpkin-fueled mayhem in Keene, N.H., provoked two equally incredulous reactions. First: Seriously — riots at a pumpkin festival? Second: Seriously — tear gas at a riot at a pumpkin festival?
The college-age rioters may have truly believed they were just fighting for their right to party, and the police who responded may have honestly believed that Keene was on the brink of civil insurrection, but both badly need a reality check.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2014/10/20/pumpkin-festival-chaos-keene-leaves-plenty-blame-around/iiH6IyXZLYcOBLsFtXDKXP/story.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on October 22, 2014, 09:44:14 am
The official autopsy on Michael Brown shows that he was shot in the hand at close range, according to an analysis of the findings by two experts not involved directly in the case.

The St. Louis medical examiner, Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, reviewed the autopsy report for the newspaper. He said Tuesday that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car.”

Graham said the examination indicated a shot traveled from the tip of Brown’s right thumb toward his wrist.



...which is consistent with a defensive wound, if the officer grabbed him thru the car window with one hand while reaching for his gun with the other (as witnesses have previously said).


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on October 22, 2014, 09:46:40 am
The official autopsy on Michael Brown shows that he was shot in the hand at close range, according to an analysis of the findings by two experts not involved directly in the case.

The St. Louis medical examiner, Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, reviewed the autopsy report for the newspaper. He said Tuesday that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car.”

Graham said the examination indicated a shot traveled from the tip of Brown’s right thumb toward his wrist.



...which is consistent with a defensive wound, if the officer grabbed him thru the car window with one hand while reaching for his gun with the other (as witnesses have previously said).

...or if Brown were grabbing the cop through the window.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on October 22, 2014, 10:00:36 am
You can show these people all the evidence in the World. But it's now at the point when someone yells FIRE! It can never be put out.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on October 22, 2014, 10:08:26 am
...or if Brown were grabbing the cop through the window.

Either is possible, but only one is likely.


Subsequent actions add more perspective:

Gray said he doesn’t dispute that something happened between Brown and Wilson at the police vehicle. But he wonders why Wilson would go after Brown and perceive him as a threat outside the vehicle, even knowing that Brown had been shot.

“His actions contradict the presence of fear,” Gray said. “You’re fearful, a guy’s running, but you’re going to get out and chase him? How many people do you know chase something that you’re fearful of?”


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ferguson-officer-told-grand-jury-he-was-trapped-in-his/article_3d9ff30b-311a-545b-859a-5d6ef60debc4.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 22, 2014, 11:09:54 am
Either is possible, but only one is likely.


Subsequent actions add more perspective:

Gray said he doesn’t dispute that something happened between Brown and Wilson at the police vehicle. But he wonders why Wilson would go after Brown and perceive him as a threat outside the vehicle, even knowing that Brown had been shot.

“His actions contradict the presence of fear,” Gray said. “You’re fearful, a guy’s running, but you’re going to get out and chase him? How many people do you know chase something that you’re fearful of?”


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ferguson-officer-told-grand-jury-he-was-trapped-in-his/article_3d9ff30b-311a-545b-859a-5d6ef60debc4.html


Wouldn't that kinda be the definition of being the cop's job...?



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 22, 2014, 11:23:49 am

Wouldn't that kinda be the definition of being the cop's job...?



Yes, normally that is part of the job description, and if they do something the new norm is they need to be arrested, indicted, tried and convicted within a few days regardless of any evidence.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on October 22, 2014, 01:00:58 pm
Yes, normally that is part of the job description, and if they do something the new norm is they need to be arrested, indicted, tried and convicted within a few days regardless of any evidence.

Can you cite an instance of that actually happening, anywhere?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 22, 2014, 01:22:07 pm
Can you cite an instance of that actually happening, anywhere?

Let me rephrase this, if an officer is involved in an incident, the outcry is the statement I made. If you want a reference look at Ferguson, Moore, NYC etc, etc,.....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on October 22, 2014, 10:06:37 pm
The official autopsy on Michael Brown shows that he was shot in the hand at close range, according to an analysis of the findings by two experts not involved directly in the case.

The St. Louis medical examiner, Dr. Michael Graham, who is not part of the official investigation, reviewed the autopsy report for the newspaper. He said Tuesday that it “does support that there was a significant altercation at the car.”

Graham said the examination indicated a shot traveled from the tip of Brown’s right thumb toward his wrist.



...which is consistent with a defensive wound, if the officer grabbed him thru the car window with one hand while reaching for his gun with the other (as witnesses have previously said).

Thanks Quincy.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on October 24, 2014, 07:01:27 pm

Wouldn't that kinda be the definition of being the cop's job...?


Maybe not the part where he chases him down to deliver the coup de grâce, so no, I would say no.






(CNN) -- Two men, shocked at what they saw, describe an unarmed teenager with his hands up in the air as he's gunned down by a police officer.

They were contractors doing construction work in Ferguson, Missouri, on the day Michael Brown was killed.
The man told CNN he heard one gunshot, then another shot about 30 seconds later.
"The cop didn't say get on the ground. He just kept shooting," ......

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/66/669db27dc4436180a2a16e098cafef630807404ad07f31ef8f958a2951707517.jpg)

....The St. Louis Post-Dispatch late Tuesday night published a leaked county autopsy report, which suggests that the 18-year-old may not have had his hands raised when he was fatally shot, as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest.





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Red Arrow on October 24, 2014, 08:03:42 pm
as has been the contention of protesters who have demanded Wilson’s arrest persecution prosecution conviction for murder.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 03, 2014, 10:48:51 pm

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. government agreed to a police request to restrict more than 37 square miles of airspace surrounding Ferguson, Missouri, for 12 days in August for safety, but audio recordings show that local authorities privately acknowledged the purpose was to keep away news helicopters during violent street protests.

On Aug. 12, the morning after the Federal Aviation Administration imposed the first flight restriction, FAA air traffic managers struggled to redefine the flight ban to let commercial flights operate at nearby Lambert-St. Louis International Airport and police helicopters fly through the area — but ban others.
A manager at the FAA's Kansas City center said police "did not care if you ran commercial traffic through this TFR (temporary flight restriction) all day long. They didn't want media in there."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/674886091e344ffa95e92eb482e02be1/ap-exclusive-ferguson-no-fly-zone-aimed-media




Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — Officials in Ferguson, Missouri, are charging nearly 10 times the cost of some of their own employees' salaries before they will agree to turn over files under public records laws about the fatal shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown.

Price-gouging for government files is one way that local, state and federal agencies have responded to requests for potentially embarrassing information they may not want released. Open records laws are designed to give the public access to government records at little or no cost, and have historically exposed waste, wrongdoing and corruption.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ea801dccbeca4d42a06d4477fdb982a0/ferguson-demands-high-fees-turn-over-city-files




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on November 08, 2014, 01:53:14 pm
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/674886091e344ffa95e92eb482e02be1/ap-exclusive-ferguson-no-fly-zone-aimed-media

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ea801dccbeca4d42a06d4477fdb982a0/ferguson-demands-high-fees-turn-over-city-files



Im old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, and never thought I would see the day when Pravda could get away with something like this:

"Not only are the police acting as the US Army does in Iraq (simply put, like occupation forces), but it is this model that the US exports to countries that seek help."

How The World Sees Us,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-28845076


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Snowman on November 08, 2014, 06:25:12 pm

Im old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, and never thought I would see the day when Pravda could get away with something like this:

"Not only are the police acting as the US Army does in Iraq (simply put, like occupation forces), but it is this model that the US exports to countries that seek help."

How The World Sees Us,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-28845076

Did you read some of the critiques by Army personnel who had been in Iraq, who were commenting they were lighter armed/armored and using less aggressive tactics in an active war zone than police were in Fregison.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 11, 2014, 11:24:20 am
Just saw an interview with Michael Brown's mother, and apparently the protesters are demanding a 48 hour notice before the release of the grand jury findings so they can gather with the family and praise god that there was an indictment,  and that the only peaceful resolution is a guilty verdict, the only choice for the grand jury is a guilty verdict. Que the usual cast if there isn't a guilty verdict. Sounds like there will be protests either way.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on November 11, 2014, 02:10:40 pm
Just saw an interview with Michael Brown's mother, and apparently the protesters are demanding a 48 hour notice before the release of the grand jury findings so they can gather with the family and praise god that there was an indictment,  and that the only peaceful resolution is a guilty verdict, the only choice for the grand jury is a guilty verdict. Que the usual cast if there isn't a guilty verdict. Sounds like there will be protests either way.

Unless I severely overslept, I understood they are waiting to see if there is an indictment, not a verdict.
He needs to go to trial, but the question is actually whether or not that will happen.

As for the "demands"

A coalition of roughly 50 groups, concerned about issues brought to prominence by the fatal shooting of Michael Brown, asked officials Wednesday to agree to 'rules of engagement' for protests expected to follow a grand jury decision.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/group-proposes-rules-of-engagement-for-grand-jury-announcement-in/article_1bf6dce8-4493-50d1-9789-d170f4cf96d3.html


http://media.wix.com/ugd/9c5255_9d5572481c7840fbad088ef6d8ae82d4.pdf


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 11, 2014, 02:17:41 pm
Unless I severely overslept, I understood they are waiting to see if there is an indictment, not a verdict.

He needs to go to trial, but the question is actually whether or not that will happen.

You and I know that, but the family and other people don't care, that just want him found guilty regardless of the evidence.  It's also interesting that the DA they want out of office so bad was up for election last week, and the voter turn out was 4 out of 10, and he was reelected.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on November 11, 2014, 02:56:11 pm
I wonder how many of these protestors were actual eye witnesses to the incident?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 11, 2014, 04:09:48 pm

Im old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, and never thought I would see the day when Pravda could get away with something like this:


How The World Sees Us,



Then you have seen how we have changed over that same time - from continuously improving in all aspects of American life to becoming stagnant or even regressing in way too many others.  Couple of examples - falling wages in real terms, and sliding from near the top in medical systems to #38. 



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 16, 2014, 05:22:10 pm
Ferguson: video shows Darren Wilson arresting man for recording him

Officer who shot and killed Michael Brown is seen telling Mike Arman ‘I’m gonna lock your *sS up’ if he does not stop
Mike Arman’s recording of his encounter with Darren Wilson.

Video footage has emerged showing Darren Wilson – the police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old in Ferguson, Missouri – threatening and arresting a resident who refused to stop filming him with a cellphone.

Wilson is seen standing near his Ferguson police SUV and warning Mike Arman: “If you wanna take a picture of me one more time, I’m gonna lock your ss up.” Arman, who had requested Wilson’s name, replies: “Sir, I’m not taking a picture, I’m recording this incident sir.”

The officer then walks to the porch of Arman’s home and apprehends him, after telling him that he does not have the right to film. The 15-second clip was uploaded to YouTube on Friday but recorded in 2013, according to police documents.

Arman, 30, was charged with failing to comply with Wilson’s orders. He claimed in an interview on Saturday that the charge was dropped after he told his lawyer he had video footage of the incident. Arman, who runs a small housing non-profit, has a criminal record and has previously been charged with resisting arrest.

“I was working on my porch with my toolbelt on and was being cordial,” Arman said of the incident. “But I wanted to safeguard myself by recording what happened.” Filming police officers carrying out their duties is widely considered to be legal and protected by the first amendment of the US constitution.

Court and police officials in Ferguson could not be reached for comment. When asked on Friday whether the officer in the video clip was Wilson, a spokesman for the Ferguson police department told the Guardian in an email: “I don’t think that is him.” The spokesman did not respond to further questions.

But a police incident report confirms that Wilson arrested Arman at his home on Redmond Avenue on 28 October 2013. The report states Wilson had arrived to issue a court summons regarding derelict vehicles that were being left on the property in violation of city rules. Redacted images of the report were first published by the Free Thought Project.

Wilson wrote in his report that Arman became upset and said he wanted to record the encounter. Wilson said he told him “a voice recording would be acceptable” but Arman “refused to answer any questions or co-operate as he lifted the phone to begin a video recording of myself” and “stated that I must state my name to him” as Wilson asked for more information on the vehicles.

Arman disputed Wilson’s account of the start of their encounter, saying that he “began recording within moments of Wilson approaching the property” and that Wilson only mentioned a voice recording being acceptable after Arman had been arrested.

Despite being shown at the other end of Arman’s garden path, Wilson wrote in his report that he told Arman “to remove the camera from my face”. He claimed to have asked Arman to place his hands behind his back, which is not visible or audible from the recording. “I was forced to grab his wrists one at a time and secure them into handcuffs,” Wilson wrote.

Wilson drove Arman to the Ferguson police department headquarters where he was charged with failure to comply and breaching regulations on pit bull dogs. The officer noted that he had been unable to enter the rear yard of Arman’s property “due to the pit bulls”. Arman claimed that the charge relating to pit bulls was dropped when he proved his pet was a bulldog.

A grand jury in St Louis is considering whether Wilson, now 28, should be charged for killing Brown in Ferguson on 9 August. Wilson shot Brown repeatedly after an altercation that followed Wilson stopping him and a friend for jaywalking.


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/16/ferguson-video-shows-darren-wilson-arresting-man-for-recording-him
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-films-confrontation-ferguson-darren-wilson-article-1.2012738

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wAkbovfTeA[/youtube]



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on November 17, 2014, 11:29:55 am
Well that definitely makes Wilson guilty of killing Brown.  Might as well send him straight to the chair.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 17, 2014, 07:35:10 pm
Well that definitely makes Wilson guilty of killing Brown.  Might as well send him straight to the chair.

If you say so, but, together with his perjured police report, it paints a picture of a bully and a liar comfortable with abusing his authority.


(http://freer.com/bits/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/police-state-when-did-this-become-this.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 17, 2014, 08:09:56 pm
Ten Illegal Police Actions to Watch for in Ferguson

When the Michael Brown verdict is announced, people can expect the police to take at least ten different illegal actions to prevent people from exercising their constitutional rights. The Ferguson police have been on TV more than others so people can see how awful they have been acting. But their illegal police tactics are unfortunately quite commonly used by other law enforcement in big protests across the US.

The First Amendment to the US Constitution promises the government will not abridge freedom of speech or to prevent the right of the people to peaceably assemble or to petition to the government for the redress of grievances.

Here is what they are going to do, watch for each of these illegal actions when the crowds start to grow:



One. Try to stop people from protesting. The police all say they know they have to let people protest. So they usually will allow protests for a while. Then the police will get tired and impatient and try to stop people from continuing to protest. The government will say people can only protest until a certain time, or on a certain street, or only if they keep moving, or not there, not here, not now, no longer. Such police action is not authorized by the US Constitution. People have a right to protest, the government should leave them alone.

Two. Provocateurs. Police have likely already planted dozens of officers, black and white, male and female, inside the various protests groups. These officers will illegally spy on peaceful protesters and often take illegal actions themselves and encourage other people to take illegal action. They will even be arrested with others but magically not end up in jail. Others inside the groups will be paid to inform on the group to the government. Comically, when undercover police are uncovered they often claim they have a constitutional right to be there and try to use the constitution they are violating as a shield!

Three. Snatch Squads. Police will decide who they do not like or who they think are leaders. Then they will use small heavily armed groups to knife into peaceful crowds and grab people, pull them out and arrest them.

Four. False Arrests. The police will arrest whoever they choose whenever they choose and will make up stories to justify the arrests. If people are breaking glass or hurting others, those arrests are legal. However, the police will arrest first and sort out who they arrested later. Police in Ferguson have already wrongfully arrested legal observers, a law professor, and church leaders.

Five. Intimidation. As they have shown many times in Ferguson and all over the country, once the protests heat up, police will show up in full riot gear, dressed like ninja turtles (big flashy guns, plastic shields, big batons, shin guards, gas masks, flex cuffs) and act like they are military warriors protecting people from ISIS invasion.

Six. Kettling or Encircling. The police will surround a group and pen them in and not let them move. They will either arrest all or force them to leave in one direction. This, as the police know fully well, always sweeps up innocent bystanders as well as protestors. NYPD did this with hundreds on Brooklyn Bridge and at many other protests. Sometimes they deploy orange plastic nets or snow fencing, sometimes just lots of police.

Seven. Raids on supportive churches, organizations or homes. Often the police make illegal pre-emptive raids on places where volunteers are sleeping, cooking or parking their cars. They lie to locals and accuse the protesters of links to violent organizations.

Eight. Pain Noise Trucks. Police will also use LRAD noise trucks (Long Range Acoustic Device). First used in Iraq now used against peaceful protesters in the US. The trucks blast bursts of sound powerful enough to cause pain. Never approved by any court, this intentional infliction of pain is another sign of the militarization of the police. Police also use MRAPs Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles - heavily armored trucks which look like tanks but roll on wheels not treads. This is part of the intimidation.

Nine. Arrest reporters. When the police are feeling the heat of public view, they will force journalists away from the protesters. Those who insist on engaging in constitutionally protected activity and returning to the scene will be arrested.

Ten. Chemical and other weapons. When the police get really desperate and afraid, they will try to disperse the entire crowd with pepper spray, tear gas, and other chemical weapons, rubber or wooden bullets. If this happens the police have just about lost control and are at their most dangerous.

Dozens and dozens of different police forces which will be surrounding the protesters in Ferguson when the Michael Brown verdict is announced. There will be federal FBI agents, Homeland Security, US Marshalls, State Police troopers, County Sheriffs, and local city cops from the dozens of little towns in and around St. Louis. Perhaps this will be the time when the peoples' constitutional rights to protest are actually protected. We can only hope. But in the meantime, look for these common police tactics.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/ten-illegal-police-action_b_6171964.html


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g3ENjMu1TTg/UFSvUdjJaSI/AAAAAAAAF8Y/Tmqd4lIGhTc/s1600/Agents%20provocateurs%20at%20least%20change%20your%20police%20issue%20boots%20before%20you%20instigate%20violence.jpg)





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 18, 2014, 07:42:09 pm
Quote
A pregnant woman’s account of being raped by a city police officer and a video of an aggressive Darren Wilson are only heightening the foreboding over the Michael Brown grand jury.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/18/rape-lies-videotape-in-ferguson.html







Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 21, 2014, 08:10:30 pm
Anonymous claims it has identified members of the Ku Klux Klan at a support group rally for police officer Darren Wilson, who shot and killed a black teen in Ferguson, Missouri. Following the expose, the support group removed the photograph from Facebook.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2p2UpHCAAAj2v1.jpg:large)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 23, 2014, 06:12:17 pm
...two clowns claiming to be Black Panthers and discussing pipe bombs with undercover FBI agents?


Federal authorities in Missouri charged two men with lying on forms to purchase guns ahead of the grand jury decision in the police shooting of Michael Brown.
Olajuwon Davis and Brandon Baldwin only faced those charges as of Friday, but sources told ABC News that authorities were looking into whether they tried to acquire ready-made explosives and other weapons ahead of the decision, which is expected soon.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missouri-charged-lying-forms-buy-guns-ahead-grand/story?id=27096024

According to an anonymous law enforcement source, two men described as reputed members of a militant group called the New Black Panther Party, were arrested in the St. Louis area in an FBI sting operation.
As initially reported by CBS News, the men were suspected of acquiring explosives for pipe bombs that they planned to set off during protests in Ferguson, according to the leak.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_bc0d3aea-f21d-5e29-947b-5c777ec2d70d.html





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 25, 2014, 08:02:58 pm
Aug. 9 until Nov. 14, anyone with knowledge of the case was saying 

Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in a strong-arm robbery that happened moments before the shooting, according to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson. Wilson stopped Brown and his friend for walking in the middle of the street, Jackson said.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/15/myths-and-facts-on-ferguson-shooting/19085451/

...until a recording appears out of thin air that completely re-writes the timeframe of the killing.
In more than 3 months time, did no one think to look at the radio tapes, or did it just take that long to engineer a new one?





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Red Arrow on November 25, 2014, 08:15:25 pm
Aug. 9 until Nov. 14, anyone with knowledge of the case was saying 

Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in a strong-arm robbery that happened moments before the shooting, according to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson. Wilson stopped Brown and his friend for walking in the middle of the street, Jackson said.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/15/myths-and-facts-on-ferguson-shooting/19085451/

...until a recording appears out of thin air that completely re-writes the timeframe of the killing.
In more than 3 months time, did no one think to look at the radio tapes, or did it just take that long to engineer a new one?

So it appears you believe the only way justice will be done is to execute Wilson.

That is sooooo wrong.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on November 25, 2014, 10:11:53 pm
Aug. 9 until Nov. 14, anyone with knowledge of the case was saying 

Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in a strong-arm robbery that happened moments before the shooting, according to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson. Wilson stopped Brown and his friend for walking in the middle of the street, Jackson said.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/15/myths-and-facts-on-ferguson-shooting/19085451/

...until a recording appears out of thin air that completely re-writes the timeframe of the killing.
In more than 3 months time, did no one think to look at the radio tapes, or did it just take that long to engineer a new one?





I will call the local authorities up there and let them know they were a bit slow on getting the evidence YOU believe you are entitled. Feel better? And put the pipe down. If you have evidence of corruption, give it up. Otherwise, you are part of the problem in this society.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 26, 2014, 02:33:58 am
In all officer involved shootings, all of the recordings are locked down to preserve them as evidence for both sides if it goes to court. Most all police departments have digital recorders for all radio traffic, as well as calls to 911 dispatch, and those recording are hard to alter as they are recorded on a hard drive and backed up on a DVD with time and date stamps that use a GPS signal for time and date info. Altering the encoded info would be somewhere at the NSA level, and not the average person working for a police department. It's not that easy to pull a Nixon anymore.

I actually have first hand experience on these systems, and a very good understanding of how they work and what you can do with them.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on November 26, 2014, 07:26:48 am
The Vashta Nerada live in the darkness.  They fear the light because it represents their only weakness.

It is believed that historically they are why people are afraid of the dark.

Very fitting Dr. Who reference.

This person seems to enjoy regurgitating conspiratorial information.  Anything that really inspires fear or hatred of those who choose to protect us.  There will always be the Vashta Nerada.  We have a few of them on this forum, or perhaps they are the same, just seeking different shadows to inhabit.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on November 26, 2014, 09:32:49 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zzcPPjLOI[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: rebound on November 26, 2014, 10:06:02 am
The Vashta Nerada live in the darkness.  They fear the light because it represents their only weakness.

It is believed that historically they are why people are afraid of the dark.

Very fitting Dr. Who reference.

This person seems to enjoy regurgitating conspiratorial information.  Anything that really inspires fear or hatred of those who choose to protect us.  There will always be the Vashta Nerada.  We have a few of them on this forum, or perhaps they are the same, just seeking different shadows to inhabit.

Dang,  that  is a solid post.      And I am seriously irritated I didn't pick up the Dr Who reference earlier...


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on November 26, 2014, 04:49:23 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26zzcPPjLOI[/youtube]

The NAACP said this was not an invitation to violence.

http://townhall.com/news/around-the-web/2014/11/26/naacp-president-burn-this-bi-down-not-a-call-for-violence-n1924174

And there is this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOsn4LiyvJE[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 26, 2014, 05:17:42 pm
The NAACP said this was not an invitation to violence.

http://uneditedpolitics.com/naacp-president-cornell-brooks-on-cnn-burn-this-grumble-down-not-a-call-for-violence-112514/

And there is this:

http://lybio.net/tag/read-mike-browns-mom-reacts-you-oedipus-think-this-is-a-joke/

Hmmmm, it's either my tablet and my phone, or the links have been scrubbed, because I get 404 page extinct on both. Will check on my PC at home.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on November 26, 2014, 06:13:11 pm
Hmmmm, it's either my tablet and my phone, or the links have been scrubbed, because I get 404 page extinct on both. Will check on my PC at home.

Those links were bad. Here is a link to a response to the New York Times publishing the address of Darren Wilson.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2014/11/26/sean-hannity-blasts-nyt-exposing-ferguson-cops-address


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on November 26, 2014, 10:31:53 pm
In more than 3 months time, did no one think to look at the radio tapes, or did it just take that long to engineer a new one?

Why would they need to?  Didnt they know the outcome of the grand jury the minute they knew who the prosecutor was?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Red Arrow on November 26, 2014, 10:54:38 pm
Why would they need to?  Didnt they know the outcome of the grand jury the minute they knew who the prosecutor was?

There's no prejudice in your family, you have it all.
 :(




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 28, 2014, 11:03:26 am
I will call the local authorities up there and let them know they were a bit slow on getting the evidence YOU believe you are entitled. Feel better? And put the pipe down. If you have evidence of corruption, give it up. Otherwise, you are part of the problem in this society.

You are saying that not only did the Chief of Police -- who insisted Wilson didnt know about a robbery -- not only didnt hear the tapes, but never discussed it when he debriefed Wilson?

Altering the encoded info would be somewhere at the NSA level, and not the average person working for a police department. It's not that easy to pull a Nixon anymore.

When you consider the Feds involved -- Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Federal Protection Services, FBI, FAA, ATF, National Guard, etc. all provided either material, tactical, regulatory or technical support -- would that be such a stretch?

The NSA does routinely (and covertly) provide services to local police, just not directly (or on record).  Information gleaned from illegal wiretaps and text/mail analysis is handed down to agencies like the DEA, who then pass it on to local police on the condition of anonimity.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 28, 2014, 12:57:39 pm
You are saying that not only did the Chief of Police -- who insisted Wilson didnt know about a robbery -- not only didnt hear the tapes, but never discussed it when he debriefed Wilson?

When you consider the Feds involved -- Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Federal Protection Services, FBI, FAA, ATF, National Guard, etc. all provided either material, tactical, regulatory or technical support -- would that be such a stretch?

The NSA does routinely (and covertly) provide services to local police, just not directly (or on record).  Information gleaned from illegal wiretaps and text/mail analysis is handed down to agencies like the DEA, who then pass it on to local police on the condition of anonimity.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering


You really should take off the tin foil hat while using a microwave oven.


[/quote]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 29, 2014, 10:19:10 pm
Pregnant woman loses eye after police shoot bean bag at her

Dornella Conners is now blind in her left eye after she and her boyfriend, De’Angelas Lee, stopped at a gas station in the 10,000 block of Halls Ferry in north St. Louis County early Tuesday morning. Conners says as she and her boyfriend were driving away from the station multiple police officers showed up.

“They pulled up while we were coming towards the street, De’Anglas was trying to get away, they blocked us from the side, front and back,” Conners said.
Conners says her boyfriend was trying to drive around St. Louis County Police but police claim he drove towards them. Police say the officer, fearing for his safety, shot at Conners, striking the passenger window causing it to shatter.


http://www.kmov.com/news/editors-pick/Pregnant-woman-loses-left-eye-during-protests--284108551.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on November 29, 2014, 11:30:29 pm
Pregnant woman loses eye after police shoot bean bag at her

Dornella Conners is now blind in her left eye after she and her boyfriend, De’Angelas Lee, stopped at a gas station in the 10,000 block of Halls Ferry in north St. Louis County early Tuesday morning. Conners says as she and her boyfriend were driving away from the station multiple police officers showed up.

“They pulled up while we were coming towards the street, De’Anglas was trying to get away, they blocked us from the side, front and back,” Conners said.
Conners says her boyfriend was trying to drive around St. Louis County Police but police claim he drove towards them. Police say the officer, fearing for his safety, shot at Conners, striking the passenger window causing it to shatter.


http://www.kmov.com/news/editors-pick/Pregnant-woman-loses-left-eye-during-protests--284108551.html

So? What's your point. The officer fired a non-lethal weapon at a threat. Of course, the injured woman tells us she was just minding her business.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2014, 12:03:34 am
Cousin Jimmy, who lives in Belleville, says he ran out of wood for the smoker so he ran down to the Ferguson Auto Zone to finish smoking the Thanksgiving turkey.  He reports it had sort of a windshield wiper after-taste.  

He sent me holiday gift certificates good at any store in Ferguson:

(http://grouchyoldcripple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/giftcertificates.jpg)

He’s so thoughtful!


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 30, 2014, 05:44:14 pm
Cousin Jimmy, who lives in Belleville, says he ran out of wood for the smoker so he ran down to the Ferguson Auto Zone to finish smoking the Thanksgiving turkey.  He reports it had sort of a windshield wiper after-taste.  

He sent me holiday gift certificates good at any store in Ferguson:

(http://grouchyoldcripple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/giftcertificates.jpg)

He’s so thoughtful!

Don't forget,  Berryman B-12 Chem Dip makes for good lighter fluid and a marinade for the daring.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on December 01, 2014, 01:58:00 pm
Damn it, no good pre-made B-12 memes out there.  Sorry folks.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 01, 2014, 04:22:40 pm
Aug. 9 until Nov. 14, anyone with knowledge of the case was saying 

Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in a strong-arm robbery that happened moments before the shooting, according to Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson. Wilson stopped Brown and his friend for walking in the middle of the street, Jackson said.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/15/myths-and-facts-on-ferguson-shooting/19085451/

...until a recording appears out of thin air that completely re-writes the timeframe of the killing.
In more than 3 months time, did no one think to look at the radio tapes, or did it just take that long to engineer a new one?






There are plenty of problems with cops in this country - but not all the problems are cops in this country.  The bigger one that I don't see you, the media, or very much of anyone else address is why for every 1 or 2 or 3 cops killing blacks, there are hundreds of blacks killing blacks that don't have anything approaching the publicity.  Like in Chicago...that paragon of gun control.  Why is that do you think??

And while I am not the biggest Guiliani fan in the world - he gets it right from time to time...

http://nypost.com/2014/11/30/giuliani-to-holder-dont-make-federal-case-out-of-ferguson/
 


Looting....Because nothing says you care about a dead kid and the community more than stealing 50 pair of Air Jordans and then burning the store to the ground....



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 01, 2014, 04:25:25 pm
Cousin Jimmy, who lives in Belleville, says he ran out of wood for the smoker so he ran down to the Ferguson Auto Zone to finish smoking the Thanksgiving turkey.  He reports it had sort of a windshield wiper after-taste.  

He sent me holiday gift certificates good at any store in Ferguson:

(http://grouchyoldcripple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/giftcertificates.jpg)

He’s so thoughtful!


Belleville ??   That's a long way from Ferguson....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on December 01, 2014, 04:51:30 pm
^^^^

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e2/e2b0b15590f3db32f59ee877971272af9f7d15430f7801b4a3483549fd37532a.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 02, 2014, 03:51:48 pm
One for the "Being able to shoot people isnt enough" category:


St. Louis police angered by Rams' 'hands up, don't shoot' pose
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/11/30/st-louis-rams-ferguson-protests

A lengthy statement from the St. Louis Police Officers Association condemned the actions of the players using the use 'hands up, don't shoot' pose in pregame.

    "All week long, the Rams and the NFL were on the phone with the St. Louis Police Department asking for assurances that the players and the fans would be kept safe from the violent protesters who had rioted, looted, and burned buildings in Ferguson. Our officers have been working 12 hour shifts for over a week, they had days off including Thanksgiving cancelled so that they could defend this community from those on the streets that perpetuate this myth that Michael Brown was executed by a brother police officer and then, as the players and their fans sit safely in their dome under the watchful protection of hundreds of St. Louis's finest, they take to the turf to call a now-exonerated officer a murderer, that is way out-of-bounds, to put it in football parlance," Police Union spokesman Jeff Roorda said.

    Roorda warned, "I know that there are those that will say that these players are simply exercising their First Amendment rights. Well I've got news for people who think that way, cops have first amendment rights too, and we plan to exercise ours! I'd remind the NFL and their players that it is not the violent thugs burning down buildings that buy their advertiser's products. It's cops and the good people of St. Louis and other NFL towns that do. Somebody needs to throw a flag on this play. If it's not the NFL and the Rams, then it'll be cops and their supporters."


The union's thinly veiled threat was followed by demands the players be punished for exercising their First Amendment rights:

The St. Louis Police Officers' Association said it was "profoundly disappointed" with what it called a "display that police officers around the nation found tasteless, offensive and inflammatory." It called for the players involved to be disciplined and for both the league and team to issue a "very public apology."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/01/st-louis-police-group-demands-punishment-for-rams-players-in-ferguson-protest/

 


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on December 02, 2014, 04:27:51 pm
One for the "Being able to shoot people isnt enough" category:


St. Louis police angered by Rams' 'hands up, don't shoot' pose
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/11/30/st-louis-rams-ferguson-protests

A lengthy statement from the St. Louis Police Officers Association condemned the actions of the players using the use 'hands up, don't shoot' pose in pregame.

    "All week long, the Rams and the NFL were on the phone with the St. Louis Police Department asking for assurances that the players and the fans would be kept safe from the violent protesters who had rioted, looted, and burned buildings in Ferguson. Our officers have been working 12 hour shifts for over a week, they had days off including Thanksgiving cancelled so that they could defend this community from those on the streets that perpetuate this myth that Michael Brown was executed by a brother police officer and then, as the players and their fans sit safely in their dome under the watchful protection of hundreds of St. Louis's finest, they take to the turf to call a now-exonerated officer a murderer, that is way out-of-bounds, to put it in football parlance," Police Union spokesman Jeff Roorda said.

    Roorda warned, "I know that there are those that will say that these players are simply exercising their First Amendment rights. Well I've got news for people who think that way, cops have first amendment rights too, and we plan to exercise ours! I'd remind the NFL and their players that it is not the violent thugs burning down buildings that buy their advertiser's products. It's cops and the good people of St. Louis and other NFL towns that do. Somebody needs to throw a flag on this play. If it's not the NFL and the Rams, then it'll be cops and their supporters."


The union's thinly veiled threat was followed by demands the players be punished for exercising their First Amendment rights:

The St. Louis Police Officers' Association said it was "profoundly disappointed" with what it called a "display that police officers around the nation found tasteless, offensive and inflammatory." It called for the players involved to be disciplined and for both the league and team to issue a "very public apology."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/01/st-louis-police-group-demands-punishment-for-rams-players-in-ferguson-protest/

 


So...The police do not get first amendment rights to complain then? And is anyone else freakin sick to death of the "hand up, don't shoot" LIE. The grand jury, which was multi-ethnic, necessarily found that to be BS.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Conan71 on December 02, 2014, 04:28:58 pm
So...The police do not get first amendment rights to complain then? And is anyone else freakin sick to death of the "hand up, don't shoot" LIE. The grand jury, which was multi-ethnic, necessarily found that to be BS.

Reality and facts are like kryptonite to these people, Gweed.


Title: Re: Re: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on December 02, 2014, 06:35:29 pm
Reality and facts are like kryptonite to these people, Gweed.
Not really. . .and the media is happy to participate too. It's a battle to be relevant.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2014, 07:39:31 pm
So...The police do not get first amendment rights to complain then? And is anyone else freakin sick to death of the "hand up, don't shoot" LIE. The grand jury, which was multi-ethnic, necessarily found that to be BS.


Yeah.... I'm beyond sick to death of the BS.  The facts are in with this case - and it's from independent witnesses, testifying to a mixed race Grand Jury.  The "celebration" is the celebration of the thug/thieve/scum lifestyle.

This guy is sick of it, too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrMaPB2Dg0

Saw another guy on Fox with Heather Childers (Faux and Fiends First) the other day and he had the same arguments.  At the end, she asked him for final thoughts, and when he started down the path of saying he is hoping and praying for people to come together - and then mentioned Jesus Christ - all this in about 3 seconds.  At that point, Heather cut him off in what has become the Faux News tradition....so he could not continue down that path.  It was pretty amazing....something like Faux would accuse all the other channels of doing!



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2014, 07:52:21 pm
It always seems strange to me, but I guess some people just can't help it.... but I just gotta ask - are there really NFL fans out there?  (National Felons League).



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on December 03, 2014, 01:42:29 pm


So...The police do not get first amendment rights to complain then? And is anyone else freakin sick to death of the "hand up, don't shoot" LIE. The grand jury, which was multi-ethnic, necessarily found that to be BS.


Never saw anyone trying to shut down the union's free speech.   Cant say the opposite is true, though.

In any case, the analysis is in:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/jk6lyk/american-hands-stand
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/s9z9nm/american-hands-stand---race-a-holics


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 04, 2014, 10:52:20 pm
So...The police do not get first amendment rights to complain then? And is anyone else freakin sick to death of the "hand up, don't shoot" LIE. The grand jury, which was multi-ethnic, necessarily found that to be BS.





 
And Roorda himself, it turns out, has a checkered past...

In 2001, Jeff Roorda was fired as a police officer in the St. Louis suburb of Arnold, Missouri, for falsifying reports in 1997 and again in 2001.

In spite of being fired for police misconduct in 2001, Roorda was hired as chief of police in neighboring Kimmswick, Missouri, the following year.
Two years later, in 2004, Roorda ran for and won a seat in the Missouri state House of Representatives, where he soon was placed on the statewide Public Safety Committee.

In 2005, Roorda wrote House Bill 396, which would allow police officers to — and this is an exact quote from his bill —"collect hazardous samples without court approval, document and then destroy them, and make them admissible." While it didn't pass, it is a shocking peek into the mind of Roorda.

In 2013, police assaulted a teenager in handcuffs, but were found not-guilty—with the support of Roorda, working in a new capacity as an executive with the St. Louis police union.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/22/1338366/-How-can-Gov-Nixon-call-for-peace-in-Ferguson-when-Jeff-Roorda-is-his-closest-ally#



In early 2014, Roorda wrote and sponsored House Bill 1466, which would change the Missouri sunshine laws requiring open records on police-involved incidents. Roorda's bill would seal all records involving any/every police action and prohibit police departments from releasing the names of officers involved in shootings (So much for "We dont make the law, we just enforce it").


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4HUvXOvgkQ#t=23[/youtube]





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 11, 2014, 01:26:56 pm

Cop disguised as Black Bloc pulls gun on protest in Oakland

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4lzTV1CQAIPzBI.jpg)

(http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/900-680x453.jpg)

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2014-12-11/article/42843?headline=Undercover-cop-disguised-as-Black-Bloc-pulls-gun-on-protest-in-Oakland-which-started-in-Berkeley--Erin-Baldassari-BCN-

https://storify.com/CourtneyPFB/undercover-cops-outed-and-pull-gun-on-crowd

http://boingboing.net/2014/12/11/undercover-cop-aims-gun-at-pho.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/undercover-cop-draws-gun-protesters-oakland-n266176



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 12, 2014, 07:19:36 pm
“Just as we turned up 27th Street, the crowd started yelling at these two guys, saying they were undercover cops,” Short said Thursday. “Somebody snatched a hat off the shorter guy’s head and he was fumbling around for it. A guy ran up behind him, knocked him down on the ground. That guy jumped backed up and chased after him and tackled him and the crowd began surging on them.
According to Bay City News, via ABC7, "Witnesses said it appeared the officer pushed the protester, who responded by ramming his body into the officer. Browne said one of the demonstrators pulled the hood off one of the officers and punched him in the head."
“The other taller guy had a small baton out,” Short said. “But as the crowd started surging on them, he pulled out a gun.”

Short said the undercover officers were wearing street clothes and had their faces covered. After the shorter officer tackled the person who outed him, he pulled out a set of handcuffs.
"The officer tackled the man to the ground and handcuffed him. The crowd, incensed, began to gather around them.

Prior to the encounter, vandals marching with the group had smashed the windows of a T-Mobile store in Oakland’s Chinatown neighborhood and made off with some of the store’s merchandise, Short said. A nearby Wells Fargo ATM was also smashed.

Several protesters took to Twitter to say that the undercover officers had instigated acts of vandalism and were banging on windows alongside others.


(http://media.nbclosangeles.com/images/971*546/BCN_eb_protests08.jpg)

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Undercover-cops-outed-attacked-at-Oakland-5951011.php
https://storify.com/CourtneyPFB/undercover-cops-outed-and-pull-gun-on-crowd
http://sfist.com/2014/12/12/an_undercover_california_highway_pa.php






Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: DolfanBob on December 13, 2014, 09:06:22 am
HOLY CARP! What a picture. No thanks on the camera assignment. You can almost see the bullet in the chamber. :o


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on December 13, 2014, 12:22:55 pm
HOLY CARP! What a picture. No thanks on the camera assignment. You can almost see the bullet in the chamber. :o


We be gangsta?

At least Reuters photographer Noah Berger knows to bring change of underwear when visiting America.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 14, 2014, 07:35:21 pm

That Over-Zealous Agitator Might Be A Cop
http://reverbpress.com/features/undercover-cops-infiltrate-protest-movements/

(http://reverbpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/xOakland-police-officers-Jaeger-and-Bluford-00-featured-708x350.jpg.pagespeed.ic.1uIrbbSF6n.jpg)

"... causing drama to sow discord, inciting protesters to acts that are violent and/or not legal (though framing them or setting them up works just as well), and publicly sharing information in a way that makes a protest movement look less credible."



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 14, 2014, 10:15:06 pm
ST. LOUIS (AP) — A St. Louis city police officer faces disciplinary action for wearing a tag on his sleeve bearing the last name of the former Ferguson officer who shot and killed Michael Brown.
Jeff Roorda, business manager for the St. Louis Police Officers' Association, said there's "something wrong with this picture" that protesters have been protected by the First Amendment while the officer is "being told that his passive statement is constitutionally prohibited free speech."




You didn't go to jail.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on December 20, 2014, 02:02:59 pm
Report: Darren Wilson's Key Witness Lied About Everything

In a damning new report by the Smoking Gun, a crucial witness in the grand jury deciding whether to indict former Ferguson, Mo. police officer Darren Wilson is revealed as having fabricated her eyewitness account of the altercation between Wilson and unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown on Aug. 9. "Witness 40," identified as 45-year-old Sandra McElroy, has a documented history of racist remarks, criminal behavior, and mental illness.
http://gawker.com/darren-wilsons-key-witness-was-bipolar-racist-liar-1671681384

DECEMBER 15--The grand jury witness who testified that she saw Michael Brown pummel a cop before charging at him “like a football player, head down,” is a troubled, bipolar Missouri woman with a criminal past who has a history of making racist remarks and once insinuated herself into another high-profile St. Louis criminal case with claims that police eventually dismissed as a “complete fabrication,” The Smoking Gun has learned.

In interviews with police, FBI agents, and federal and state prosecutors--as well as during two separate appearances before the grand jury that ultimately declined to indict Officer Darren Wilson--the purported eyewitness delivered a preposterous and perjurious account of the fatal encounter in Ferguson.

Referred to only as “Witness 40” in grand jury material, the woman concocted a story that is now baked into the narrative of the Ferguson grand jury, a panel before which she had no business appearing.

While the “hands-up” account of Dorian Johnson is often cited by those who demanded Wilson’s indictment, “Witness 40”’s testimony about seeing Brown batter Wilson and then rush the cop like a defensive end has repeatedly been pointed to by Wilson supporters as directly corroborative of the officer’s version of the August 9 confrontation. The “Witness 40” testimony, as Fox News sees it, is proof that the 18-year-old Brown’s killing was justified, and that the Ferguson grand jury got it right.

However, unlike Johnson, “Witness 40”--a 45-year-old St. Louis resident named Sandra McElroy--was nowhere near Canfield Drive on the Saturday afternoon Brown was shot to death.


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/unmasking-Ferguson-witness-40-496236


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 31, 2014, 07:51:33 pm
A spokesman for the Ferguson, Mo., police department has been placed on unpaid leave after he admitted that he referred to a memorial for a black teenager fatally shot by a white officer as “a pile of trash in the middle of the street,” and then falsely claimed that he had been misquoted by The Washington Post, city officials said.

“I don’t know that a crime has occurred,” the newspaper quoted Officer Timothy Zoll as saying. “But a pile of trash in the middle of the street? The Washington Post is making a call over this?” Officer Zoll denied making the remark, and Ferguson officials initially disputed the newspaper’s account.
The Post stood by its story, and the article remained online.

On Saturday, the city sent another news release saying that it had changed its position after a further review.
“The officer admitted to department investigators that he did in fact make the remarks attributed to him, and that he misled his superiors when asked about the contents of the interview,” the statement said.

"The City of Ferguson wants to emphasize that negative remarks about the Michael Brown memorial do not reflect the feelings of the Ferguson Police Department." 


 ...but obviously, they do.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 11, 2015, 06:07:19 pm
A Ferguson grand juror who heard the case of Darren Wilson previewed potentially scathing criticism of St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch, in a lawsuit alleging that McCulloch skewed the views of jurors when he delivered a lengthy public presentation to announce that the jury wouldn’t file any charges against Wilson for killing Michael Brown.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/01/05/3607990/ferguson-grand-juror-says-prosecutor-dramatically-mischaracterized-darren-wilsons-case/



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 04, 2015, 10:27:46 pm
FERGUSON, Mo. -- The federal government on Wednesday called for a massive overhaul of the law enforcement practices of this St. Louis suburb in a scathing report that found the city regularly engaged in unconstitutional practices.
Attorney General Eric Holder said police policies caused “severely damaged relationships between law enforcement and members of the community” and “made professional policing vastly more difficult -– and unnecessarily placed officers at increased risk.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/04/ferguson-doj-investigation_n_6804846.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/03/justice_department_report_exposes_ferguson_s_discrimination_against_blacks.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 04, 2015, 10:51:11 pm
FERGUSON, Mo. -- The federal government on Wednesday called for a massive overhaul of the law enforcement practices of this St. Louis suburb in a scathing report that found the city regularly engaged in unconstitutional practices.
Attorney General Eric Holder said police policies caused “severely damaged relationships between law enforcement and members of the community” and “made professional policing vastly more difficult -– and unnecessarily placed officers at increased risk.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/04/ferguson-doj-investigation_n_6804846.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/03/justice_department_report_exposes_ferguson_s_discrimination_against_blacks.html

Did you kinda forget about the lack of evidence to charge the shooter cop with civil rights violations?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/megyn-kelly-loses-it-over-ferguson-report-hands-up-dont-shoot-did-not-happen/


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 05, 2015, 11:44:53 am
Did you kinda forget about the lack of evidence to charge the shooter cop with civil rights violations?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/megyn-kelly-loses-it-over-ferguson-report-hands-up-dont-shoot-did-not-happen/


It's called the "straw that broke the camel's back" syndrome - one seemingly small event/occurrence that brings about a disproportionate response WAY out of order to the actual trigger event.  Brings in ALL the other things that were piled up behind it waiting for just such a trigger.

I'm betting there are some big class action lawsuits coming down the pike on this one.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 05, 2015, 01:17:06 pm
Did you kinda forget about the lack of evidence to charge the shooter cop with civil rights violations?

The DOJ's decision hinged on the validity of Wilson’s stated subjective "belief" that he feared for his safety, not that his safety was actually in jeopardy. 
Half the people in prisons or mental institutions could make the same claim.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 05, 2015, 02:50:49 pm
The DOJ's decision hinged on the validity of Wilson’s stated subjective "belief" that he feared for his safety, not that his safety was actually in jeopardy.  
Half the people in prisons or mental institutions could make the same claim.


Wouldn't the injuries Wilson sustained tend to lend some credence to that belief...above and beyond what might be considered if there were none visible??

This one...not the fake eye socket one....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/24/darren-wilson-injury-photos_n_6216208.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 05, 2015, 06:18:25 pm

Wouldn't the injuries Wilson sustained tend to lend some credence to that belief...above and beyond what might be considered if there were none visible??


You mean the bruise he got after he "feared," yet made the decision to escalate a verbal encounter into violence?

All the DOJ did was provide discovery for the civil trial.  The family will get justice there, but the taxpayers will be the ones punished.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 05, 2015, 08:30:44 pm
You mean the bruise he got after he "feared," yet made the decision to escalate a verbal encounter into violence?

All the DOJ did was provide discovery for the civil trial.  The family will get justice there, but the taxpayers will be the ones punished.


Goes to a question that will probably never be answered.  Seems to be a consensus that the bruising event happened while cop was still in the car.  Did it happen before the gun was brandished the first time or after?  That is the crux of the matter.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 08, 2015, 09:12:57 pm
Goes to a question that will probably never be answered.  Seems to be a consensus that the bruising event happened while cop was still in the car.  Did it happen before the gun was brandished the first time or after?  That is the crux of the matter.


15 reasons Justice report resembles Tulsa:

http://www.newsweek.com/15-most-outrageous-examples-police-misconduct-department-justice-report-311434





In an April 2014 communication from the Finance Director to Chief Jackson and the City Manager, the Finance Director recommended immediate implementation of an “I-270 traffic enforcement initiative” in order to “begin to fill the revenue pipeline.” The Finance Director’s email attached a computation of the net revenues that would be generated by the initiative, which required paying five officers overtime for highway traffic enforcement for a four-hour shift. The Finance Director stated that “there is nothing to keep us from running this initiative 1,2,3,4,5,6, or even 7 days a week. Admittedly at 7 days per week[] we would see diminishing returns.” Indeed, in a separate email to FPD supervisors, the Patrol Captain explained that “[t]he plan behind this [initiative] is to PRODUCE traffic tickets, not provide easy OT.” There is no indication that anyone considered whether community policing and public safety would be better served by devoting five overtime officers to neighborhood policing instead of a “revenue pipeline” of highway traffic enforcement. Rather, the only downsides to the program that City officials appear to have considered are that “this initiative requires 60 to 90 [days] of lead time to turn citations into cash,” and that Missouri law caps the proportion of revenue that can come from municipal fines at 30%, which limits the extent to which the program can be used. See Mo. Rev. Stat. § 302.341.2. With regard to the statewide-cap issue, the Finance Director advised: “As the RLCs [Red Light Cameras] net revenues ramp up to whatever we believe its annualized rate will be, then we can figure out how to balance the two programs to get their total revenues as close as possible to the statutory limit of 30%.”



At times, the constitutional violations are even more blatant. An African-American man recounted to us an experience he had while sitting at a bus stop near Canfield Drive. According to the man, an FPD patrol car abruptly pulled up in front of him. The officer inside, a patrol lieutenant, rolled down his window and addressed the man:

    Lieutenant: Get over here.

    Bus Patron: Me?

    Lieutenant: Get the fu*k over here. Yeah, you.

    Bus Patron: Why? What did I do?

The lieutenant ran the man’s name for warrants. Finding none, he returned the ID and said, “get the hell out of my face.” These allegations are consistent with other, independent allegations of misconduct that we heard about this particular lieutenant, and reflect the routinely disrespectful treatment many African Americans say they have come to expect from Ferguson police. That a lieutenant with supervisory responsibilities allegedly engaged in this conduct is further cause for concern.


https://www.scribd.com/doc/257696868/Ferguson-Police-Department-Report



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 09, 2015, 08:40:35 am

At times, the constitutional violations are even more blatant. An African-American man recounted to us an experience he had while sitting at a bus stop near Canfield Drive. According to the man, an FPD patrol car abruptly pulled up in front of him. The officer inside, a patrol lieutenant, rolled down his window and addressed the man:

    Lieutenant: Get over here.

    Bus Patron: Me?

    Lieutenant: Get the fu*k over here. Yeah, you.

    Bus Patron: Why? What did I do?

The lieutenant ran the man’s name for warrants. Finding none, he returned the ID and said, “get the hell out of my face.” These allegations are consistent with other, independent allegations of misconduct that we heard about this particular lieutenant, and reflect the routinely disrespectful treatment many African Americans say they have come to expect from Ferguson police. That a lieutenant with supervisory responsibilities allegedly engaged in this conduct is further cause for concern.
[/i]



All the evidence from the DOJ on down to local seems to be showing that the incident triggering all this scrutiny actually contained no untoward activity on behalf of the cop.


How ironic would that be if a perfectly reasonable response and outcome is the catalyst that brings to light all the other injustice being done in Ferguson as well as the rest of the country...?




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on March 09, 2015, 03:47:58 pm

How ironic would that be if a perfectly reasonable response and outcome is the catalyst that brings to light all the other injustice being done in Ferguson as well as the rest of the country...?


Not at all ironic.  Not even a tiny bit.

It would be a complete disaster and political nightmare if Eric Holder's investigation turned up no injustice.  A young man gets shot by a cop after committing a crime.  This probably happens several times a day. . .Has probably happened today. The difference is that this became a political storm.  It was the perfect crop for the locusts to swarm.  The President, Holder, Sharpton, and all of their puppets in the press dawned the mantles of justice ahead of the evidence, in a gruesome competition that destroyed a community.

The DOJ would be incompetent if they found nothing, and the city of Ferguson would surely burn again.

I am confident that if they conducted the same investigation in Tulsa, Las Angeles, Paris, Peabody, Blackrock, Claton, Hulbert, or any other US city, they would be able to uncover identical practices and probably worse.  Sad, but true.

(http://themaresnest.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/help-help-im-being-repressed.jpg)

We should be thankful that Ferguson officials chose to use their official conduits of communications, instead of clandestine email servers and phone systems.  That sacrifice probably saved their community from a second round of violence. 


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 10, 2015, 08:11:57 am
Not at all ironic.  Not even a tiny bit.

It would be a complete disaster and political nightmare if Eric Holder's investigation turned up no injustice.  A young man gets shot by a cop after committing a crime.  This probably happens several times a day. . .Has probably happened today. The difference is that this became a political storm.  It was the perfect crop for the locusts to swarm.  The President, Holder, Sharpton, and all of their puppets in the press dawned the mantles of justice ahead of the evidence, in a gruesome competition that destroyed a community.

The DOJ would be incompetent if they found nothing, and the city of Ferguson would surely burn again.

I am confident that if they conducted the same investigation in Tulsa, Las Angeles, Paris, Peabody, Blackrock, Claton, Hulbert, or any other US city, they would be able to uncover identical practices and probably worse.  Sad, but true.


We should be thankful that Ferguson officials chose to use their official conduits of communications, instead of clandestine email servers and phone systems.  That sacrifice probably saved their community from a second round of violence.
  


I guess you are right - Define irony. Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.


Sad, but true - this does happen in all those other cities.  This one just happened to be at the center of the "perfect storm" to be the one this time for attention.

So rather than just decrying the 'badness' of the response, where is the response to the root cause?



See reply #225 above about straws and camels...


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on March 11, 2015, 02:52:41 pm

I guess you are right - Define irony. Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.


Sad, but true - this does happen in all those other cities.  This one just happened to be at the center of the "perfect storm" to be the one this time for attention.

So rather than just decrying the 'badness' of the response, where is the response to the root cause?



See reply #225 above about straws and camels...


The response is well worth talking about. 

A society is in decay when it makes makes martyrs out of madmen.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2015, 03:32:52 pm
The response is well worth talking about. 

A society is in decay when it makes makes martyrs out of madmen.


A society in decay is due to no response to a root cause.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 11, 2015, 03:54:59 pm

A society in decay is due to no response to a root cause.


I am confused here. What is the "root cause" you either are referring to or believe exists?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2015, 04:25:29 pm
I am confused here. What is the "root cause" you either are referring to or believe exists?


Are you serious with that question?  Or just playing devil's advocate??  (PLEASE say 'devil's advocate'...!!)

In case someone out there actually doesn't get it, it goes to the whole discussion for the last few days - the items addressed in the DOJ report.

And not really a 'belief'.... it's a conclusion based on observation and analysis of a series of events of record.  But then there are those out in the world that do believe the planet is no more than 6,000 years old and that it is flat.  And turtles all the way down....



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 11, 2015, 06:47:11 pm

Are you serious with that question?  Or just playing devil's advocate??  (PLEASE say 'devil's advocate'...!!)

In case someone out there actually doesn't get it, it goes to the whole discussion for the last few days - the items addressed in the DOJ report.

And not really a 'belief'.... it's a conclusion based on observation and analysis of a series of events of record.  But then there are those out in the world that do believe the planet is no more than 6,000 years old and that it is flat.  And turtles all the way down....



I want you to tell me what the "root cause" is for whatever is ailing you over Fergusun? The DOJ issued a report about one police department, a report incidentally that undercut the whole "hands up, don't shoot" crap that caused millions (?) of people's panties to get wrenched around.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 12, 2015, 12:22:41 am
Well this is interesting.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/two-police-officers-are-shot-in-ferguson/article_eda6589f-d0fc-5420-8489-787a218a6d83.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Gaspar on March 12, 2015, 06:48:22 am
Sometimes the root cause is not as important as the secondary infection.

Walk through the woods anywhere in the country and you are likely to encounter thorns. Every year people die from Sporothrix schenckii, and a host of other infections carried by tens of thousands of plants with thorns. When I was a paramedic I watched a 8 year old boy die from an infection he got from a barberry bush outside the front door of his school.

The root cause was the prick, but the secondary infection resulted in death.

Thorns suck, but unfortunately they exist in nature. You can pull a few of them out of the ground but you will never eradicate them.

The secondary infection in Ferguson is not being treated, it is being nurtured, because people are afraid to name it.  Every system contains disease. The Fergurson police department, the Ferguson community, our government, and each individual.  Sometimes focusing on the root impedes your ability to treat the secondary infection.

The infection in Ferguson is massive, and spreading. In many cases it is being encouraged to spread for political reasons, because it fosters the destruction necessary for politicians and other madmen to feed.  The victims are the people anointed as minions, and given false justification for heinous action.

It will get worse as long as we continue to attempt to placate criminal action and martyr thugs. This is not a new thing.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 12, 2015, 09:46:48 am
Sometimes the root cause is not as important as the secondary infection.

Walk through the woods anywhere in the country and you are likely to encounter thorns. Every year people die from Sporothrix schenckii, and a host of other infections carried by tens of thousands of plants with thorns. When I was a paramedic I watched a 8 year old boy die from an infection he got from a barberry bush outside the front door of his school.

The root cause was the prick, but the secondary infection resulted in death.

Thorns suck, but unfortunately they exist in nature. You can pull a few of them out of the ground but you will never eradicate them.

The secondary infection in Ferguson is not being treated, it is being nurtured, because people are afraid to name it.  Every system contains disease. The Fergurson police department, the Ferguson community, our government, and each individual.  Sometimes focusing on the root impedes your ability to treat the secondary infection.

The infection in Ferguson is massive, and spreading. In many cases it is being encouraged to spread for political reasons, because it fosters the destruction necessary for politicians and other madmen to feed.  The victims are the people anointed as minions, and given false justification for heinous action.

It will get worse as long as we continue to attempt to placate criminal action and martyr thugs. This is not a new thing.


Except for the fact that you got it exactly reversed... if you want to call the interactions of police - a small microcosm of society in general - the "secondary infection", fine....it's just semantics.  And Ferguson is a small item of what has gone on in this country for a long time.

What is the bigger shame here is that people who have not been exposed (the upper X%...pick a number you like from 1 to 49...) don't understand what people who HAVE been exposed (the lower X%....again pick your own number...) have dealt with forever.  But hey, that must mean it really doesn't exist at all, right?

As for what has been done in the past to all the various lower X%, well you are right about that - we are likely never to get rid of all the thorns.  They keep popping up due to ignorance and stupidstition of all %'ers.

What the upper %'ers - and many of the lower %'ers want to do is parse and deflect and try to compartmentalize all effects so they can attach one "root cause" and thereby attempt to trivialize, demean and deflect what I mentioned earlier as the preponderence of evidence - the "straw the broke the camels back" - that constitutes the sum total of reactions.  Michael Brown was a punk, small time criminal who thought he was "sooo tough"...and wanted to prove how gangsta' he was.  He apparently was justifiably blown away for his actions.  Just so you and guido can understand - that is what is meant by earlier posts...read them again if not understood.

The one event is what triggered (the thorn?), but was not the root cause (the secondary infection?).  Backwards, but ok, let's go with that....  Sad that the RWRE can't understand that - it's the focused, lasered training from Rupert and Friends... Fox and Friends that installs the blinders for them...  They actually DO understand, but that doesn't fit The Script, so must be attacked and eliminated if possible.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 12, 2015, 11:24:57 am
Well this is interesting.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/two-police-officers-are-shot-in-ferguson/article_eda6589f-d0fc-5420-8489-787a218a6d83.html

You should be relieved the two were released from the hospital a few hours later with shrapnel wounds, so now you can devote your attention to all the Americans who were shot this week that didnt survive.

No one should be shooting at anybody, but thats too simple.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on March 12, 2015, 11:32:43 am
You should be relieved the two were released from the hospital a few hours later with shrapnel wounds, so now you can devote your attention to all the Americans who were shot this week that didnt survive.

No one should be shooting at anybody, but thats too simple.

How could it be shrapnel when reports state one of the officers still has a bullet lodged behind his left ear.  A little insensitive I think..


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 12, 2015, 12:34:30 pm
How could it be shrapnel when reports state one of the officers still has a bullet lodged behind his left ear.  A little insensitive I think..


I had a bullet in my nose one time that eventually worked it's way out...that one behind his left ear may do the same... maybe it will work its way down to his mouth and he can spit it out Terminator style!!


Good news they are going to be ok!  Too bad they didn't catch the shooter at the time!  Sounds like they have leads AND cooperation from the community.  Perhaps the DOJ exoneration of the cop and the report will let most people (civilian and cop) start looking at ways to help the situation instead of making it worse.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 12, 2015, 01:09:44 pm
You should be relieved the two were released from the hospital a few hours later with shrapnel wounds, so now you can devote your attention to all the Americans who were shot this week that didnt survive.

No one should be shooting at anybody, but thats too simple.

I didn't mean to interrupt your celebrating--I mean even though they were not killed. Here ya go.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M[/youtube]


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Townsend on March 12, 2015, 03:52:41 pm
I didn't mean to interrupt your celebrating--I mean even though they were not killed. Here ya go.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M[/youtube]

I really like that song.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 12, 2015, 04:47:07 pm
First this....

http://donofalltrades.com/2015/03/12/a-senseless-death/


Then this....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/year-old-boy-fatally-shot-in-rolling-st-louis-gunbattle/article_4c0a7015-e591-5c8b-8ec0-9781e2472c30.html


Yesterday evening.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 12, 2015, 05:01:58 pm
I really like that song.

I bet.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 12, 2015, 05:06:11 pm
Here is reportedly video taken at the time of the shooting--for the likes of patric. Sounds like an officer is the one in agony.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvubFsGh6Rs[/youtube]




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 12, 2015, 05:21:41 pm
Here is reportedly video taken at the time of the shooting--for the likes of patric.

I can make no sense of the last statement.  Perhaps there is none.


...but if were sharing video...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5llTSYN0L1E[/youtube]



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 12, 2015, 05:27:21 pm
^^^Hope you are having one heck of a party!!!!


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 13, 2015, 07:19:40 pm
^^^Hope you are having one heck of a party!!!!



New shooting in Ferguson sets right wing shrieking
http://www.kentucky.com/2015/03/13/3745566/mary-sanchez-new-shooting-in-ferguson.html



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 14, 2015, 05:10:12 pm
First this....

http://donofalltrades.com/2015/03/12/a-senseless-death/

Then this....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/year-old-boy-fatally-shot-in-rolling-st-louis-gunbattle/article_4c0a7015-e591-5c8b-8ec0-9781e2472c30.html

Yesterday evening.


You missed one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/shooting-in-metro-system-dc-police-say/2015/03/12/8f3abf6e-c921-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html

Averaging three a day, but because they are killed by police, their lives cease to matter.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 14, 2015, 05:20:32 pm
The response is well worth talking about. 

A society is in decay when it makes makes martyrs out of madmen.



Here's part of the problem:  A right-wing extremist career politician (and Fox And Friends regular) tweeting pictures of burned bodies and saying the president and AG are out to destroy America, because in his world the only alternative to devolving police practices is anarchy.

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/Sheriff-Clarke-tweets-graphic-photo-in-response-to-political-website-295444511.html

The police unions and the RWE are milking this for maximum value, but the reality is that one fool with a gun isnt going to slow the much needed momentum of police reform.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 14, 2015, 05:24:56 pm

 if you want to call the interactions of police - a small microcosm of society in general - the "secondary infection", fine....it's just semantics.  And Ferguson is a small item of what has gone on in this country for a long time.
The one event is what triggered (the thorn?), but was not the root cause (the secondary infection?).  Backwards, but ok, let's go with that....  Sad that the RWRE can't understand that - it's the focused, lasered training from Rupert and Friends... Fox and Friends that installs the blinders for them...  They actually DO understand, but that doesn't fit The Script, so must be attacked and eliminated if possible.


“This is really an ambush, is what it is,” said Chief Jon Belmar of the St. Louis County Police Department. "You can't see it coming. ... And you are basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you."  Belmar said the shooter was "somehow embedded" among the demonstrators.

Police in full riot gear with helmets and shields, gathered from multiple jurisdictions and in battle formation, "ambushed" by someone in a crowd of protestors, and simply vanished without a trace?
Then there's that odd military reference to the shooter being "embedded," which reveals that police dont believe the shooter was a protestor.

(http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzAzLzEyL2Y3L0FQMjY3MDMwNTEyLjkzMzE1LmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/299af861/534/AP2670305122651.jpg)



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 14, 2015, 05:44:27 pm

“This is really an ambush, is what it is,” said Chief Jon Belmar of the St. Louis County Police Department. "You can't see it coming. ... And you are basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you."  Belmar said the shooter was "somehow embedded" among the demonstrators.

Police in full riot gear with helmets and shields, gathered from multiple jurisdictions and in battle formation, "ambushed" by someone in a crowd of protestors, and simply vanished without a trace?
Then there's that odd military reference to the shooter being "embedded," which reveals that police dont believe the shooter was a protestor.

(http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE1LzAzLzEyL2Y3L0FQMjY3MDMwNTEyLjkzMzE1LmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/299af861/534/AP2670305122651.jpg)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIoMfVNVx4g


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 14, 2015, 09:26:54 pm

You missed one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/shooting-in-metro-system-dc-police-say/2015/03/12/8f3abf6e-c921-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html

Averaging three a day, but because they are killed by police, their lives cease to matter.



No I didn't.  These two are specific to St Louis - some family lives there.  One of them works in a building on the road this went down on.  Everyone had left for the day.



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 14, 2015, 09:44:27 pm

“This is really an ambush, is what it is,” said Chief Jon Belmar of the St. Louis County Police Department. "You can't see it coming. ... And you are basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you."  Belmar said the shooter was "somehow embedded" among the demonstrators.

Police in full riot gear with helmets and shields, gathered from multiple jurisdictions and in battle formation, "ambushed" by someone in a crowd of protestors, and simply vanished without a trace?
Then there's that odd military reference to the shooter being "embedded," which reveals that police dont believe the shooter was a protestor.



Conclusion... jumped to...  That logic is the kind of thing they use in Logic 101 as an example of faulty/invalid logic.  IOW, you can't get there from here - probably wasn't 'with' the protestors - just using them as cover - but doesn't make the shooter a cop plant either...not by a long shot!!

I suspect it's more he is using the terminology they use to attribute an action to someone who was on the 'other side'.  Ambushed - yeah, that event pretty well fit the definition, I think.  I also suspect the bullets came from outside the immediate area of the group of protestors, when all the dust settles.



Ferguson and Berkely are pretty ragged areas in St Louis - family is about 3 miles west of there - and you can see that the crime is average to high.  Murder is moderate rate - sometimes higher, sometimes lower.  Way less than Detroit, but amazingly close to Washington DC.  (comparing numbers per 100,000)

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ferguson-Missouri.html

National comparisons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_%282012%29




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 15, 2015, 01:41:58 pm
Sounds like they got the shooter.

http://fox2now.com/2015/03/15/st-louis-county-police-suspected-shooter-of-two-police-officers-in-custody/

http://woundedamericanwarrior.com/breaking-thug-jeffrey-williams-shooter-of-two-ferguson-police-officers-in-custody/#


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on March 15, 2015, 01:59:40 pm
Reading some and watching the video, it, at first blush, appears that the police weren't targeted.

Before you go full on ape-$hit, that doesn't absolve this moron from anything.  If it turns out what is stated is true, it makes him a terrible marksman if he targeted someone else.  And an idiot for doing it in a crowd of protesters outside the police station.  Especially THIS police station.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 15, 2015, 04:33:57 pm
Reading some and watching the video, it, at first blush, appears that the police weren't targeted.

Before you go full on ape-$hit, that doesn't absolve this moron from anything.  If it turns out what is stated is true, it makes him a terrible marksman if he targeted someone else.  And an idiot for doing it in a crowd of protesters outside the police station.  Especially THIS police station.

Sounds like you might be right

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ferguson-police-shooter-had-been-at-protest-earlier-source-says/article_a25d4fc3-5889-5f15-a8fe-2995af5962ac.html

and Im guessing it wasnt the people living under this roof?

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/6b/46b60308-58e2-5de1-b36c-f44871e48a53/5501c3aa587f1.image.jpg?resize=620%2C429)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 15, 2015, 07:06:00 pm
probably wasn't 'with' the protestors - just using them as cover



"This last event was not the protesters," Robert Howard, a police officer who lives in Ferguson and works in nearby Hillsdale, told NBC News days after the two officers were shot. "This was another act of an opportunist."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cop-ferguson-says-protesters-are-going-be-ones-help-us-n323381


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on March 15, 2015, 08:35:46 pm
(https://nononprofitspam.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/markasspam.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on March 15, 2015, 08:37:11 pm
(https://nononprofitspam.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/markasspam.jpg)

Hmm..don't like the outcome so call it Spam.  I see....


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 16, 2015, 01:46:32 am
Hmm..don't like the outcome so call it Spam.  I see....

I don't like the "outcome" either . Two cops were shot, and you are more focused on the excuse given by the admitted shooter. This upstanding human being:

(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/jeff-williams-facebook1.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780)

He also reportedly posted this on Facebook: "“It’s so easy to take somebody life…. Bt y’all niggas scared to bang….smh…….. Gotta Have da best of both worlds.”

The DA also said Williams had been demonstrating earlier that night.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Breadburner on March 16, 2015, 05:28:06 am
Hoss hates law enforcement too.......


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on March 16, 2015, 05:37:52 am
Hoss hates law enforcement too.......

Aww, isn't that cute.  The sleepover club is ganging up on me...whatever will I do?

I wonder, do you guys complete each other's sentences?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 16, 2015, 10:11:58 am
Aww, isn't that cute.  The sleepover club is ganging up on me...whatever will I do?

I wonder, do you guys complete each other's sentences?

Hoss, you are just not appreciating how much space they are using up to complain about people using up space.
You should see it for the accomplishment it is... you know, like staring in awe over a really big BM.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 16, 2015, 04:06:17 pm
Hoss, you are just not appreciating how much space they are using up to complain about people using up space.
You should see it for the accomplishment it is... you know, like staring in awe over a really big BM.

Congratulations Hoss. THIS is who's side you are now on. And also congrats on becoming the left's "sauerkraut" in this forum.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Hoss on March 16, 2015, 05:02:32 pm
Congratulations Hoss. THIS is who's side you are now on. And also congrats on becoming the left's "sauerkraut" in this forum.

I just love it that I irritate you THAT much.

If you think I'm really concerned of what your opinion of me is (or anyone's opinion for that matter) I think you might have me mistaken with someone else.  I know enough people on this forum I've met in person to know who values my opinion.  I know many on this forum who think you're a joke.

How's that for ya, Judge Stone?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 16, 2015, 05:35:14 pm
I just love it that I irritate you THAT much.



Yep. You are my little hemorrhoid.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 16, 2015, 05:39:41 pm
Now, children!!  

Can't we all just get along...??


lol...lol... I make myself laugh.... again.

And if someone doesn't get the reference (both of them) - I don't wanna know - it just means they are too young, making me too old!!



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 16, 2015, 09:46:29 pm
The DA also said Williams had been demonstrating earlier that night.

No, no, no. The shooter must be a calculated asassin who snuck up on unsuspecting cops standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a hundred other cops in riot gear.  It cant be some thug who got dissed and decided to drive-by his ho while she was protesting at the police station, because that wouldnt justify us (check all boxes that apply): 








Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 17, 2015, 07:56:52 am
No, no, no. The shooter must be a calculated asassin who snuck up on unsuspecting cops standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a hundred other cops in riot gear.  It cant be some thug who got dissed and decided to drive-by his ho while she was protesting at the police station, because that wouldnt justify us (check all boxes that apply):  





Don't matter what his motivation is - or whether he shot cops or protestors or some random person sitting in a building two blocks away.  Attempted murder.

Where do they come up with the whole concept of "assault".  That is such a cream corn crock of crap!  If you pick up a gun, point it in the direction of a person or people, pull the trigger, you are intending to kill someone!  It is not assault - it is attempted murder. 




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 18, 2015, 12:57:47 am
Hold everything. The cop shooter is now claiming his confession was brought about by duress and force. So I guess he didn't shoot anybody now.


http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-shooting-suspect-gave-false-confession-lawyer-says-230410789.html


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Townsend on March 18, 2015, 11:57:59 am
Are we certain this was not a suicide by cop?

Maybe a  domestic argument like the two cops that shot each other in Florida last year?


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 18, 2015, 05:35:22 pm
Hold everything. The cop shooter is now claiming his confession was brought about by duress and force. So I guess he didn't shoot anybody now.


And we already know where you stand on the validity of confessions obtained through torture.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 18, 2015, 05:55:31 pm
Are we certain this was not a suicide by cop?

Maybe a  domestic argument like the two cops that shot each other in Florida last year?

(https://carlae.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/hmmm.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: guido911 on March 18, 2015, 05:56:23 pm
And we already know where you stand on the validity of confessions obtained through torture.

I know. The bishop he also confessed to probably beat the smile out of him--just like the cops did.


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on March 20, 2015, 12:38:36 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/03/20/jon-stewart-calls-out-fox-news-for-a-double-standard-in-covering-ferguson-and-benghazi/


"They demand accountability for anger and divisiveness whilst holding themselves entirely unaccountable for their anger and divisiveness," he said. "For two years, they used Benghazi as shorthand, as a symbol for the whole concept of a corrupt, lying, tyrannical, possible murderous Obama White House, kind of like other people used 'hands up, don't shoot' as a symbol for systemic racism, and there's only really one difference between the two phenomenon: systemic racism actually exists."



http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/faezep/mighty-morphin-position-changers


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 21, 2015, 04:51:19 pm
Hold everything. The cop shooter is now claiming his confession was brought about by duress and force. So I guess he didn't shoot anybody now.
http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-shooting-suspect-gave-false-confession-lawyer-says-230410789.html




I guess you dont read the links you post.

On Tuesday, a department spokesman again called the accusations “completely false” without offering any potential explanation for apparent marks in Williams’ booking photograph.
Yahoo News requested the booking sheet for when Williams arrived at the jail. It often lists charges, arrest details, next of kin, arrival time and other information. On Monday, a jail employee said the document wasn’t releasable in the Williams case. When pressed for an explanation, the jail employee said it would be made available shortly. As of late Tuesday afternoon, it had not been sent.





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 09, 2015, 05:00:53 pm
Two photojournalists arrested covering the protests in Ferguson last year, including one who photographed the infamous “Officer Go F uck Yourself,” agreed to settlements in which their cases will be dropped and their records expunged.
But only one will receive financial remedies.

Trey Yingst, who was arrested on November 22 – a day after a judge issued an order forbidding cops from arresting journalists – will receive an $8,500 settlement from St. Louis County.
  
And Bilgin Sasmaz, who was arrested after photographing St. Ann police officer Ray Albers, the cop who became a viral sensation after pointing his assault rifle at a group of journalists, telling them, “I will f cking kill you,” did not receive any financial compensation despite spending the night in jail and having his camera broken.

“These cases were negotiated separately and the settlements reflect the deals that the respective client agreed to,” said Diane K. Balogh, communications director of the ACLU of Missouri, who represented both journalists.

(https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/1408576057271_wps_9_update_the_st_ann_police_.jpg)

Meanwhile, Albers, who was forced to resign after the incident, is still a certified law enforcement officer in Missouri and can be employed by any of the many police agencies in the state.

According to state documents, Albers broke several laws that night, including assault, harassment, unlawful use of a weapon and disturbing the peace, charges that would have many of us facing jail time.

But the lieutenant also refused to identify himself when asked, telling protesters and journalists his name was Officer Go F ck Yourself, a name that instantly stuck, even though it cost him his job.
But the worst the 20-year veteran appears to be facing is losing his law enforcement license, which means he can still find work as a cop in other states.


(http://pinac-cdn.pinac.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ray-Albers.jpg)




Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 10, 2015, 07:01:27 pm
A Washington Post reporter who was arrested at a restaurant last year while reporting on protests in Ferguson, Mo., has been charged in St. Louis County with trespassing and interfering with a police officer and ordered to appear in court.

Wesley Lowery, a reporter on The Post’s national desk, was detained in a McDonald’s while he was in Missouri covering demonstrations sparked by a white police officer fatally shooting an unarmed black 18-year-old.

A court summons dated Aug. 6 — just under a year after Lowery’s arrest — was sent to Lowery, 25, ordering him to appear in a St. Louis County municipal court on Aug. 24. The summons notes that he could be arrested if he does not appear.

“Charging a reporter with trespassing and interfering with a police officer when he was just doing his job is outrageous,” Martin Baron, executive editor of The Post, said in a statement Monday. “You’d have thought law enforcement authorities would have come to their senses about this incident. Wes Lowery should never have been arrested in the first place. That was an abuse of police authority.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/08/10/washington-post-reporter-charged-with-trespassing-interfering-with-a-police-officer/?tid=sm_tw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8_X2KW5wH4





Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 11, 2015, 06:16:31 pm

Shot in the back


(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/1380802564947833258.jpg)


Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: patric on August 16, 2015, 09:48:34 am
An amazing amount of patience from the reporters in this video.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/post-reporter-detained-in-ferguson/2014/08/13/b0fc5720-2354-11e4-8b10-7db129976abb_video.html



I can’t fathom how it’s in the public interest to file charges against two journalists who reported richly and persistently from the site of an international news story—even if you assume, for the sake of argument, that probable cause existed. Reilly and Lowery revealed abuses of government power, they gave voices to all manner of protestors and police officers, they investigated the interminable issues of race and class in American communities—and how people engage in collective grieving.

Reilly’s and Lowery’s reporting illuminated the biggest story in the world at the time, and if declining to charge them in connection with that reporting isn’t in the public interest, then I don’t know what would be.

Beyond that, what harm was caused by the alleged offenses? The police chief, after all, released Reilly and Lowery as soon as he learned they had been arrested and the reason. They hadn’t caused a hazard or contributed to one, the restaurant hadn’t demanded their removal, and, again, they were in the process of complying with the officers’ orders when they were arrested. I agree with The Washington Post’s assessment that the journalists endangered nothing “except the egos of the officers involved.”

With that in mind, consider the disproportion of the authorized punishment in relation to the offenses. A trespassing charge and an interference-with-a-police-officer charge each carries a penalty of one year in prison and/or a $1,000 fine. To be clear, that’s one year in prison for not leaving a McDonald’s restaurant quickly enough, while trying to comply with the officers’ orders—and otherwise producing public-service journalism. That’s absurd.


http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/wesley_lowery_ryan_reilly_ferguson.php



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 18, 2015, 06:59:47 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/15/missouri-police-officer-brags-about-spending-annual-michael-brown-bonus



Title: Re: One less QT today
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 20, 2016, 06:41:55 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLGr-0VtREY


Prosecutors on Thursday dropped charges of trespassing and interference with police officers against two national reporters arrested while covering the 2014 protests in Ferguson, Mo. in exchange for the reporters' pledges not to sue the county.
"A deal probably would have resulted in few if any actual consequences for us, but it also would have legitimized bogus arrests and provided cover for officers who violated our rights and engaged in misconduct."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ferguson-reporters-charges-dropped-1.3590680


One of the municipal codes we were charged with violating, which makes it unlawful for a person to “interfere in any manner with a police officer or other employee of the County in the performance of his official duties,” is a “contempt of cop” statute that is unconstitutionally overbroad.

The facts were on our side. The manager of the McDonald’s never asked us to leave (let alone be arrested) and welcomed us back to the restaurant on many occasions. The evidence made clear what had happened: Stressed-out officers who didn't want their actions recorded had decided to lash out at a couple of reporters. No charges were warranted. But prosecutors endorsed the ridiculous theory -- which the police pushed -- that two journalists recording the actions of police officers in a fast food restaurant “directly contributed” to the civil unrest in Ferguson in August 2014.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ryan-reilly-ferguson-arrest-st-louis-county_us_573cb0eae4b0646cbeebce8a