The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

The Tulsa County officials came to our public forum last Tuesday and presented their arguments for voting yes for the upcoming sales tax vote held on April 1st.

TulsaNow has occasionally made an endorsement for or against public votes. The leadership is considering doing one for this vote. I think it is important to give forum posters a chance to weigh in on their opinions on these ideas.

For those who missed the presentations, here is some backup...
 
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/tulsa-county-officials-seek-april-jail-juvenile-center-vote/article_85849715-4a6b-5adc-a1c9-4bb40c89831c.html

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/tulsa-county-commissioners-set-tax-vote-for-juvenile-center-jail/article_665e386d-7949-54cb-b138-c9b5e45be044.html

http://www.newson6.com/story/24582917/tulsa-county-voters-to-decide-on-tax-to-improve-jails
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/voters-to-decide-futre-of-jail-juvenile-detention-center
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/county-officials-ask-voters-30-million-jail-expans/nb7ND/
http://gtrnews.com/greater-tulsa-reporter/12616/april-1-countywide-election-critical-for-solving-jail-woes

Do any of you have strong opinions that need to be heard from the TulsaNow leadership?

I’ve been on board since the need for a new juvenile center was brought up a year or two back, great summary on the news the other night with Commissioner Keith and Carlos.  I’m good with it, I just hope the relative short notice and no other issues being on the ballot won’t end up with it being largely ignored by voters.

Agree with Conan. I spend time in the juvenile courts and it needs help.

Not supporting more taxes for the prison/court system until the entire thing is reformed.

You have a long wait....

In the meantime, the juvenile facilities are woefully in need.

There will be two separate issues on the ballot. It appears that the juvenile justice center is favored by most of the few posters. What are your thoughts on the jail expansion?

More backup in Today's Tulsa World...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/jail-will-still-need-funding-even-as-mental-health-issues/article_46616b11-d940-50e2-9396-d1a83a37d93a.html

Jail will still need funding even as mental health issues are addressed, officials say

County officials pushing a sales tax proposal said Friday that needed funding for dedicated mental health facilities does not take away from the Tulsa Jail's needs. Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glanz said the entire state needs to look at more support for the mentally ill, but even with more facilities, people with mental-health issues will continue to filter through the jail.

"What we would like to find is a support system to deal with these people we come into contact with," Glanz said.
The question about where tax dollars should go came as Glanz and Tulsa County Commissioner Karen Keith spoke to the current Leadership Tulsa class at the Tulsa Country Club on Friday.

County officials are urging approval of funding for a new juvenile justice center and additional pods at the Tulsa Jail as part of an April 1 vote.
The four new pods proposed would increase the capacity at the Tulsa Jail, including one pod dedicated to inmates with mental illness — an effort not only to provide better treatment for those inmates, but also to separate them from the general population.

The separate ballot resolutions ask voters to consider a 15-year, 0.041 percent sales tax to fund the projects."The main problem we have (at the jail) is with the mentally ill," Glanz said. About 400 Tulsa Jail inmates are currently on medication for mental illnesses administered by jail staff, he said.

"If you're arrested for a violent crime — and lot of these people are — it takes them about six months before ... they go for evaluation and then they come back for six months awaiting trial," Glanz said. "We're really out of beds. We simply don't have the beds in Tulsa to deal with all those people."

Another question asked of county officials is why jail population is up while crime is down. Glanz said part of it is just an increase in Tulsa County population. "As our population increases, the population of the jail increases," he said. Tulsa County Undersheriff Tim Albin said an increase in female inmates has also led to overpopulation in the jail. "Our female population has doubled over the last three years," Albin said. "Drugs and alcohol abuse are an equal opportunity destroyer."

The county officials also addressed questions about the proposed juvenile justice center to replace the Tulsa County Juvenile Bureau facility at 315 S. Gilcrease Museum Road. County officials have yet to determine where the new facility would be constructed.
Built in the late 1960s and renovated in 1995, the Juvenile Bureau comprises two structures totaling about 46,000 square feet, including a 55-bed detention center.

Keith said the facility is run down and doesn't provide enough space for the staff and judges to do their jobs.
Keith said about 41 percent of the court docket are cases involving abused and neglected children, and the space available in court can't keep victims separate from the accused perpetrators. "You just don't let that happen in this day and age," Keith said.

Tulsa County criminal justice tax proposal
What: Tulsa County has called a countywide election on two 15-year sales-tax initiatives. One resolution asks voters to approve a 0.041 percent sales tax to fund construction of a new juvenile justice center; the other resolution asks voters to approve a 0.026 percent sales tax to fund construction and operation of four new pods at the Tulsa Jail.

When: April 1
Effective date: July 1

Tax impact: If both taxes are approved, the sales-tax rate in the city of Tulsa would remain the same because an equivalent city sales tax is expiring. The sales-tax rate in other parts of the county would increase by 0.067 percent. If only one of the taxes is approved, the sales-tax rate would drop in the city of Tulsa and increase by the amount of the approved tax elsewhere in the county.

I think there is a tendency to believe that everyone who is in jail is deserving of ill treatment. Inmates are subjected to overcrowding, poor food, charged for everything at rates much higher than the general population and in fear of truly bad inmates. They are not all guilty of the crimes they are charged with and often are only there because they can't afford better representation, are mentally ill or are just plain stupid about their rights. All get treated the same.

I wish there were more facilities in other parts of the city but previous short term thinking put them all downtown in the same fishbowl. I support any effort to improve them including sales taxes.

Separating the Juvenile Center issue from the general jail expansion was the right move.

Not everyone is going to agree that the way to fix overcrowding at Moss Jail is by making the jail bigger, once you look at the number of people incarcerated that shouldn't be.   As AquaMan intimated, a one-size-fits-all approach is short-sighted.

Wow, there is a comment in need of some additional information if there ever was one. Next time you are in court, waive your arms and I'll say "hi".

Isn't a large part of our jail overcrowding problem caused by the state leaving inmates in county jail because of a lack of beds in state prisons? Maybe attacking that problem would be more productive than building more cells that the state can use for less than they cost to build and run?

Isn't obstructionism exactly the preferred technique of the RWRE...don't spend any money on a problem until the problem is fixed first?  Or even more to what they do - cut taxes/budgets/personnel until performance improves!

Oklahoma has failed it's children in too many ways for way too long.  I hate the idea of any added tax, and also hate the idea of "one size fits all".  Across a wider range of ideas than just juveniles in jail.  Let's try to start fixing at least one thing.

And then, let's quit voting for the ignorance and stupidstition embodied at state, county, and city levels and do things to actually improve conditions for people in the state.  But that wouldn't be according to The Script, would it now?

Could someone please translate this for me? Is Harrison Alexernder in favor of helping the children in the juvenile justice/deprived child system or attacking the tea party?

Yes.

"Let's try to start fixing at least one thing."


Come on guido, I thought lawyers were supposed to be proficient in English in this country!  Oh, wait,....I guess that is "proficient" in mangling English and making it unintelligible, so only the union (bar) members (made men) can understand ...??


At least you spelled the name right!!  Good job!!  I didn't think you cared enough to do that - does that mean we're friends now?  I hope so!  I would like that!  (actually, serious about that last part - some of my best friends are people I can butt heads with strongly and not come to blows and still enjoy each others company!!)

But then you backslid and spelled "teabagger" all wrong.... we can work on that!


Just now, while writing this, I realized that for someone who is "against" unions - it must be just the unions that help the "unwashed masses" - your household is not just a union household, but members of TWO of the most powerful unions the country, if not the world, has ever seen!!!   Oh, the irony!

12:00 am?  Get some sleep, guido...you look tired!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au-v2RS0mJQ

Someone got sloppy and ended up with an inmate pulling out a jailer's body piercing,
and TCSO went in front of the cameras saying we need the bond to pass to stop that from happening.

So it should be easy, we give them more tax money and they start following the rules.

I walked in at about 7:04 this morning.  It was me and the three volunteers. 

I was walking out a few minutes later as the next person to vote walked in.

Seems to be a light turnout in my district for this one.

I forgot to note the number on the polling machine.

There are a lot of people who don’t seem to be aware there is an election today.  Seems like the county should have added this to a general ballot election.

I'm guessing a more positive outcome regarding a smaller turnout.

I was #39 at 10:30 this morning

My precinct saw only 175 voters by 4 in the afternoon. More will show up after work, but it's a dismal turnout regardless.

Well, mine was a two sheeter; the counter on my machine when I completed said 50.  It counted both sheets so I can only assume I was voter number 25 at about 4:30 pm.

#104 at 5:30

#32 at 3:00pm

82 at 6:00


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#146 at Berean Baptist Church (21st & Darlington) at 5pm.

Hey, even with low turn-out it passed, I didn’t see that coming but glad it did.

Curious how many people who didn’t vote will complain it “got shoved down our throats!”?

Tulsa World has a breakdown by precinct.  Ours was 117 total.  64 yes,  53 against.

By expanding our jail to accommodate the War On Drugs, we fall further behind the rest of the nation:

The public appears ready for a truce in the long-running war on drugs. A national survey by the Pew Research Center finds that 67% of Americans say that the government should focus more on providing treatment for those who use illegal drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Just 26% think the government’s focus should be on prosecuting users of such hard drugs.

http://www.people-press.org/2014/04/02/americas-new-drug-policy-landscape/

You know, not everyone in jail is there because they sold or possessed drugs.

Not everyone, but huge percentages are. Over half of all Federal prisoners most serious crime was a drug crime. That true for 20% of people in state prisons. With Oklahoma's draconian drug laws we are assuredly well above 20%.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/13/wonkbook-11-facts-about-americas-prison-population/

Ditto with Moss Jail, whose overcrowding problems are not going to be solved (in the long term) by adding more wings.

As far as those insidious out-of-state voter mailings criticizing the county for breaking it's "temporary tax" promise; I got three times as many from the vote YES lobby.  Except for the message, the vote YES and vote NO cards seem to be virtually identical. 

So, who were the deep pockets on each side?

Nope.  Just most.

I am against both, sorry they passed. Too many residents did not vote.

IMO they could of used an old school or something and just added on a section for the Juvenile center, the jail  should be a work/labor camp. While one group of inmates are sleeping the other group is out busting big rocks into tiny rocks, after a good hard day of work the inmates will be too tired to cause problems for the staff. This new fancy stuff is wasteful. I also believe that there is other money that can be used as the tax Assessor has talked about many times before.

Yeah, uncle kimchi, just chain them together and put them to work in one of the rock quarries in east Tulsa. They deserve it don't they? What's next for you, crucifixion,  public hanging at noon? Don't you need a new tarp for your roof from Wally World?

Maybe a new carb kit for that old Ford three quarter ton with the 351 Windsor in it...

Sheriff Seeks an Architect for Jail Expansion

http://kwgs.com/post/sheriff-seeks-architect-jail-expansion (http://kwgs.com/post/sheriff-seeks-architect-jail-expansion)

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbOy8GV2k0H4f3V7x6g9us1DUZYxqAkQcrXYZjOrCxb9QhNsaKxg)

If it's an '83, then it is a variable venturi carburetor, and it will never be fixed correctly....doomed to being broken forever.  Remind you of someone??  (Kimchi....)

Expanding the Moss Jail only creates more of a need to keep it full.


Major Shannon Clark with the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office said it comes down to dollars and cents, because the federal government pays the jail to house its inmates.  He said the jail is an expensive place to run and while people might not like the idea of bringing in illegal immigrants the jail needs the money.
 
“You know, the lights are on, the people are here, you know, we’ve gotta be here anyway. And so to be paid for those beds, it really benefits us significantly. And what we believe is that it’s offsetting the operational expenses of this facility,” said Clark.
“It has brought upwards of $5 million a year. And, again, we have U.S. Marshals prisoners that average about 100, and then we have ICE inmates that average about 140 a day,” said Clark.
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/illegal-immigrants-housed-tulsa-county-jail/nggPS/

Something to think about when they start complaining about overcrowding.

Hey!!    I had one of those - good truck.....don't take it out on the truck!!

“I think when you look at the overall medical record, you will look back and go, ‘Wow,’ for what they are having to deal with,” said Maj. Shannon Clark, spokesman for Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glanz, who is in charge of the jail.
"so we're really the victims here"

"death is a part of life" and dying of abuse and negligence while in custody is a natural thing.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/tulsa-jail-faces-inmate-lawsuits-officials-dispute-claims-of-needless/article_7fd38be0-96d0-5406-82e1-526b134b24c9.html


“Anytime you compare a city in Oklahoma with an 1,800 population, they have an obituary section, they have an undertaker, they have people die,” he said.
That would be a good comparison if everyone in that city were kept from their medication and doctors, fed nothing but carbohydrates and starch, and regularly battered, shocked and doused with chemical weapons.

,,,but what can we expect from an Untouchable who just announced he was building a new center, named for himself and paid for with seized cash and property taken from people without due process?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/tulsa-jail-asks-to-hold-more-inmates-for-immigration-and/article_2d95ff8c-c818-55b4-a433-fb9238fee809.html

So our jail is dependent on being packed with federal prisoners, but the county still comes to the taxpayers to deal with the resulting overcrowding.  Got it.

The county has ruled out placing the center downtown like what they stated a year ago for the vote.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/communities/bixby/news/a-year-later-county-still-planning-for-new-juvenile-justiice/article_d25da754-ac67-5eac-a2b1-2912d31b5ce2.html

Bait and switch. The county has also become even more combative about Tulsa's use of the city/county jail seeing it more as just the county jail.

Hardly

I'm glad they came to their senses. Downtown does not need a Justice District today, just like it didn't need a Government District in the 60s. With the development of the Civic Center, we destroyed 13 lively blocks of downtown Tulsa, full of restaurants, apartments, single family homes, shops, etc. and erected a few lifeless superblocks that served but a couple of uses.

What was the reason the Storey site was rejected?

And that lifelessness spread into the surrounding area.

At one time there were environmental issues.  Not sure if that was the holdup.

That's exactly what I was wondering. Storey not storing cars correctly.