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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: Ed W on December 08, 2013, 04:58:28 pm



Title: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 08, 2013, 04:58:28 pm
Our conservative Christians in the state legislature have opened the door for an interesting argument about religious monuments on public property. You will recall that after a private organization offered to pay for a Ten Commandments monument, our legislators - despite the contentious issue of its constitutionality - agreed to put said monument on the grounds of the state capitol, effectively thumbing their noses at anyone who disagreed.

Well, it's come full circle. A group of satanists now want to put up their own monument at the capitol. You'd think this was from the Onion, but no, it's from NBC News:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/08/21820518-satanists-want-statue-beside-ten-commandments-monument-at-oklahoma-legislature?lite (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/08/21820518-satanists-want-statue-beside-ten-commandments-monument-at-oklahoma-legislature?lite)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 08, 2013, 05:26:57 pm
Our conservative Christians in the state legislature have opened the door for an interesting argument about religious monuments on public property. You will recall that after a private organization offered to pay for a Ten Commandments monument, our legislators - despite the contentious issue of its constitutionality - agreed to put said monument on the grounds of the state capitol, effectively thumbing their noses at anyone who disagreed.

Well, it's come full circle. A group of satanists now want to put up their own monument at the capitol. You'd think this was from the Onion, but no, it's from NBC News:

Im almost hoping its some gaudy animatronic they took off of Robbie Bell's hands,
With lasers.  (nighttime curfew, of course).


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: DolfanBob on December 09, 2013, 10:38:30 am
Could it be.....Satan? Well isn't that special ~ Church Lady.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2013, 12:22:01 pm
Im almost hoping its some gaudy animatronic they took off of Robbie Bell's hands,
With lasers.  (nighttime curfew, of course).

Quote
"We believe that all monuments should be in good taste and consistent with community standards," Greaves wrote in letter to state officials. "Our proposed monument, as an homage to the historic/literary Satan, will certainly abide by these guidelines."


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on December 09, 2013, 12:26:51 pm
Quote
The Oklahoma Legislature has taken other steps that many believe blur the line that divides church and state. The House speaker said he wants to build a chapel inside the Capitol to celebrate Oklahoma's "Judeo-Christian heritage." Several lawmakers have said they want to allow nativity scenes and other religious-themed symbols in public schools.

Rep. Bobby Cleveland, who plans to introduce a one such bill next year, said many Christians feel they are under attack as a result of political correctness. He dismissed the notion of Satanists erecting a monument at the Capitol.

"I think these Satanists are a different group," Cleveland, R-Slaughterville, said. "You put them under the nut category."

I'm thinking this is a big ol' "nut category" showdown.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Rookie Okie on December 09, 2013, 01:13:09 pm
Hmmm!  Must post the 10 commandments outside, only to see the officials break or disregard each and every one of them once inside.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Red Arrow on December 09, 2013, 01:45:00 pm
Hmmm!  Must post the 10 commandments outside, only to see the officials break or disregard each and every one of them once inside.

It's a reminder so they know which ones they are breaking.  Also, it allows a shortcut by allowing them to merely say the number of the commandment rather than recite the entire thing.
 
 :D


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on December 09, 2013, 03:01:59 pm
It's a reminder so they know which ones they are breaking.  Also, it allows a shortcut by allowing them to merely say the number of the commandment rather than recite the entire thing.
 
 :D

They used to have them in the courtrooms.  Obviously so you could just say "I'll have a #6 and a #8, and can I get small order of #9?"



Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on December 09, 2013, 03:25:03 pm
If Rep. Cleveland dismisses satanism as mere nuttery and uses that as a reason to deny them access, he is effectively using the power of state government to endorse only those religious creeds he finds agreeable. Let's suppose I hit the Powerball and declare my own divinity (for tax purposes, mind you, because She Who Must Be Obeyed would never agree let alone worship me) and as part of my new identity I insist on erecting a monument to myself on capitol grounds. You would all be okay with that, wouldn't you?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re:
Post by: Gaspar on December 09, 2013, 03:27:36 pm
If Rep. Cleveland dismisses satanism as mere nuttery and uses that as a reason to deny them access, he is effectively using the power of state government to endorse only those religious creeds he finds agreeable. Let's suppose I hit the Powerball and declare my own divinity (for tax purposes, mind you, because She Who Must Be Obeyed would never agree let alone worship me) and as part of my new identity I insist on erecting a monument to myself on capitol grounds. You would all be okay with that, wouldn't you?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

As long as it's tasteful.

Nothing gaudy.


Title: Re:
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 09, 2013, 03:31:51 pm
I insist on erecting a monument to myself on capitol grounds.

All Hail Ed.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on December 09, 2013, 03:42:50 pm
I always thought there should be a deity named Ed.

We could all convert to Edism and read the book of Ed (mostly just recipes i'm sure).


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: swake on December 09, 2013, 04:10:27 pm
I always thought there should be a deity named Ed.

We could all convert to Edism and read the book of Ed (mostly just recipes i'm sure).

I'm in so long as everyone gets a bad donkey robe and meetings are optional.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 09, 2013, 04:56:20 pm
I'm in so long as everyone gets a bad donkey robe and meetings are optional.

No donkey robes. What in the world are donkey robes?

Instead, you get one of these:

(http://www.pajamacity.com/data/default/images/catalog/390/JB1135-PN.jpg)

Since nachos and beer are part of the sacraments, along with football, cyclocross racing, and playing with sharp knives, snuggies help to minimize heat loss while containing chips, cheese, and beer spills as well as covering up the odd knife wound or two.

Every religion includes some tale of a spiritual journey, fraught with peril and privation. Ours involved a U-Haul that spewed oil all the way from Pennsylvania to Oklahoma, where we were mightily perplexed by "Do Not Drive Into Smoke" signs and the search for seemingly non-existent "rest stops" along the Oklahoma Turnpike. These remain some of the central mysteries in Edism.

I was going to claim that I fully understand women too, but while we deities are omniscient, there are some places we won't go.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: AquaMan on December 10, 2013, 09:12:49 am
You're the deity? I thought we were worshipping the horse....of course. The FAMOUS Mr. Ed!

Changes everything.



Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 10, 2013, 10:11:47 am
You're the deity? I thought we were worshipping the horse....of course. The FAMOUS Mr. Ed!

Changes everything.



I've been compared to the horse. You can guess which end.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: DolfanBob on December 10, 2013, 10:18:13 am
You're the deity? I thought we were worshipping the horse....of course. The FAMOUS Mr. Ed!

Changes everything.



Oh the list could go on and on. But I'm good with snuggies. I already have my Miami Dolphins one with velcro attachments. I just couldn't get used to the backdraft those things have.  ;D


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 12, 2013, 07:52:09 am
Now the Hindus want to erect a monument to Lord Hanuman, the monkey revered for tremendous strength and proper grammar. (No, I'm not making this up.) But there's this fly in the ointment, a possibly disingenuous statement at the end of the news piece:

However, it’s unlikely that any religious monument would join the 10 Commandments. Typically courts have rejected religious monuments unless they have historic significance to the community where they are placed.


I had the impression that federal courts generally ruled that government buildings and property could not be used for religious purposes despite the insistence of some of our Okie legislators thumbing their noses. So if this is true, those native American tribes that were here prior to statehood would have a more legitimate claim to erect a monument.

http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/group-requests-monument-to-hinduism-on-oklahoma-state-capitol-grounds/-/11777584/23430152/-/lli3pd/-/index.html (http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/group-requests-monument-to-hinduism-on-oklahoma-state-capitol-grounds/-/11777584/23430152/-/lli3pd/-/index.html)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Conan71 on December 12, 2013, 08:36:51 am
Now the Hindus want to erect a monument to Lord Hanuman, the monkey revered for tremendous strength and proper grammar. (No, I'm not making this up.) But there's this fly in the ointment, a possibly disingenuous statement at the end of the news piece:

However, it’s unlikely that any religious monument would join the 10 Commandments. Typically courts have rejected religious monuments unless they have historic significance to the community where they are placed.


I had the impression that federal courts generally ruled that government buildings and property could not be used for religious purposes despite the insistence of some of our Okie legislators thumbing their noses. So if this is true, those native American tribes that were here prior to statehood would have a more legitimate claim to erect a monument.

http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/group-requests-monument-to-hinduism-on-oklahoma-state-capitol-grounds/-/11777584/23430152/-/lli3pd/-/index.html (http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/okc/group-requests-monument-to-hinduism-on-oklahoma-state-capitol-grounds/-/11777584/23430152/-/lli3pd/-/index.html)

I heard that.  Let’s wait until we have 8 or 10 statues from varying religions.  Our Capitol grounds will start to look a little like Disneyland.

I’ve often wondered why so many churches are used for polling places in elections since there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: AquaMan on December 12, 2013, 10:53:34 am
Or the use of TPS education facilities for church services which is common. I assume they are arms length, business transactions.

This whole facade seems to hinge on the "historical" nature of the religious symbol. I heard an Evangelical bragging on the radio that they have applications for monuments in every single statehouse across America using that ruse. They are banking on that as the tiny window opening to evade the separation of church and state. Oklahoma splits it even thinner by commanding "historical significance to the community served" which would certainly open it up more than their feeble minds can comprehend.

I would strongly support the Festivus monuments which are also planned for every statehouse. Television sitcoms are a big part of our history.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 12, 2013, 11:54:07 am
Deep thinker and American Family Association executive director Bryan Fischer claims the First Amendment was written to protect only Christianity, saying without any credible evidence that "By the word 'religion,' the founders meant Christianity." As a result, Fischer concluded that satanists cannot put up a monument next to the Ten Commandments in Oklahoma City.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/christianity/us-constitution-only-protects-christianity-claims-american-family# (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/christianity/us-constitution-only-protects-christianity-claims-american-family#)

Given a chance, this guy would have no problem establishing a theocracy.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: DolfanBob on December 12, 2013, 11:56:32 am
OK I want to see a Monument erected to Joseph Smith. Showing him handing me my ticket of passage to Heaven.

I think that's how the story goes but I may be way off.  ::)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 12, 2013, 12:05:44 pm
Let’s wait until we have 8 or 10 statues from varying religions.  Our Capitol grounds will start to look a little like Disneyland.

I’ve often wondered why so many churches are used for polling places in elections since there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

Once upon a time the state capitol displayed all the flags that once flew over what is now Oklahoma (hence the large numbers of flagpoles).
Despite the historical significance, someone was offended, so they did away with that.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: AquaMan on December 12, 2013, 12:42:04 pm
This is great comedy theatre. I just hate to pay taxes to produce it.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Conan71 on December 12, 2013, 12:43:16 pm
Deep thinker and American Family Association executive director Bryan Fischer claims the First Amendment was written to protect only Christianity, saying without any credible evidence that "By the word 'religion,' the founders meant Christianity." As a result, Fischer concluded that satanists cannot put up a monument next to the Ten Commandments in Oklahoma City.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/christianity/us-constitution-only-protects-christianity-claims-american-family# (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/christianity/us-constitution-only-protects-christianity-claims-american-family#)

Given a chance, this guy would have no problem establishing a theocracy.

If that were really the case, then America would have been clearly founded as an asylum for Christians and non-Christians would have been denied entry to the country.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2013, 01:16:27 pm
I think I like the way this could go.

Oklahoma has an opportunity to look like we're open to all peoples if we'd allow multiple monuments, religious or not, onto the grounds.

Eventually though, this will turn into some "Ya'll's different than us" amendment in the state constitution that will lead to a very expensive court battle.  Then Oklahoma will be forced to remove the 10 commandments monument.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: TeeDub on December 13, 2013, 07:17:29 am
Let’s wait until we have 8 or 10 statues from varying religions.  Our Capitol grounds will start to look a little like Disneyland.


I vote this!    In fact, I will donate if anyone wants to put up a FSM statue to go next to the Hindu and Satanic ones.

Something tasteful.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iLavlLrMQko/R-PkTyOaxsI/AAAAAAAAAFE/WuXQ3lYDPz4/S760/with+statue+fixed.JPG)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 13, 2013, 10:28:51 am
I think TeeDub has a brilliant idea.

Please start a Flying Spaghetti Monster thread on this forum and let's brainstorm on fundraising ideas. We could start with a spaghetti dinner.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: AquaMan on December 13, 2013, 10:34:14 am
Where did the concept of the Flying Spaghetti Monster come from?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: rebound on December 13, 2013, 10:40:38 am
Where did the concept of the Flying Spaghetti Monster come from?

"The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" was first described in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005 to protest the Kansas State Board of Education decision to permit teaching intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

I am so on-board with offering up a FSM statue!  If anybody really gets that going, count me in.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 13, 2013, 11:29:47 am
"The "Flying Spaghetti Monster" was first described in a satirical open letter written by Bobby Henderson in 2005 to protest the Kansas State Board of Education decision to permit teaching intelligent design as an alternative to evolution in public school science classes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

I am so on-board with offering up a FSM statue!  If anybody really gets that going, count me in.


But will it compete with truly meaningful, historically contextual and low cholesterol displays, like Festivus?     

Or.....
(http://www.sfdm.scad.edu/faculty/mkesson/vsfx319/wip/best_winter2013/faith_zeng/maya_pattern_animation/img/reference.gif)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: rebound on December 13, 2013, 11:46:53 am
(http://www.sfdm.scad.edu/faculty/mkesson/vsfx319/wip/best_winter2013/faith_zeng/maya_pattern_animation/img/reference.gif)

All Hail HypnoToad!   (His presence might explain some of the behavior we see popping up about this time of year....)



Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 13, 2013, 12:02:58 pm
But back to the graven images for a second, the weirdest part of this is the eminent domain angle:


LOS ANGELES — A federal judge ruled Thursday that a cross on federal land in San Diego violated the First Amendment ban on a government endorsement of religion and ordered it removed within 90 days.

The federal government seized the land on which the cross sits through eminent domain in 2006 as part of an effort to save the cross.
But in 2011, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled the cross violated the First Amendment.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/us/judge-rules-against-cross-on-us-land.html?_r=0




Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: AquaMan on December 13, 2013, 01:09:37 pm
But back to the graven images for a second, the weirdest part of this is the eminent domain angle:


LOS ANGELES — A federal judge ruled Thursday that a cross on federal land in San Diego violated the First Amendment ban on a government endorsement of religion and ordered it removed within 90 days.

The federal government seized the land on which the cross sits through eminent domain in 2006 as part of an effort to save the cross.
But in 2011, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled the cross violated the First Amendment.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/us/judge-rules-against-cross-on-us-land.html?_r=0
Right hand...meet left hand.




Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 13, 2013, 01:09:54 pm
But back to the graven images for a second, the weirdest part of this is the eminent domain angle:


LOS ANGELES — A federal judge ruled Thursday that a cross on federal land in San Diego violated the First Amendment ban on a government endorsement of religion and ordered it removed within 90 days.

The federal government seized the land on which the cross sits through eminent domain in 2006 as part of an effort to save the cross.
But in 2011, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled the cross violated the First Amendment.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/us/judge-rules-against-cross-on-us-land.html?_r=0

Cherry picking?

Quote
LOS ANGELES — A federal judge ruled Thursday that a cross on federal land in San Diego violated the First Amendment ban on a government endorsement of religion and ordered it removed within 90 days.

But the quarter-century fight over the 29-foot cross atop Mount Soledad may not be over. The judge said he would stay the order if there was an appeal. The case has wound through the courts since the 1980s, while the cross has become emblematic of the national debate over the place of religion in public life.

After a previous cross at the site was knocked down in a windstorm, the current cross was erected on city property in 1954 by the Mount Soledad Memorial Association, a veterans’ group, who called it a monument to Korean War veterans. In 1989, Philip K. Paulson, a Vietnam War veteran and an atheist, sued the City of San Diego to have the cross removed, and the case has remained in court ever since.

Supporters of the cross have argued that it remains a war memorial, not a religious symbol, even though few if any commemorations of war victims were at the site until after Mr. Paulson’s lawsuit.

The federal government seized the land on which the cross sits through eminent domain in 2006 as part of an effort to save the cross.

But in 2011, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled the cross violated the First Amendment ban. The Supreme Court declined to hear the case last year, sending it back to the trial court.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs celebrated Thursday’s ruling. They said no one wanted the cross destroyed, and hoped the federal government would now negotiate to move it elsewhere.

“This is a win for religious liberty,” said Daniel Mach, who argued the case for the American Civil Liberties Union. “The government can and should honor those who served and died for this country, but not by playing favorites with faiths.”

Supporters of the cross indicated they planned to appeal.

This cross has been in place since 1954. It wasn't until an atheist Vietnam vet complained in 1989 that it became a matter of religion. Isn't Arlington Nat'l Cemetery Federal land? I don't hear any one complaining about the crosses on the memorial markers for the graves there?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Memorial_Day_at_Arlington_National_Cemetery.jpg)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 13, 2013, 01:20:09 pm
Cherry picking?

Highlighting, with a link you were able to successfully follow (if that was your choice).

Arlington is an ironic example, having been Robert E. Lee's backyard until the government seized it in his absence (so that Lee would come home and face the graves of the war dead).


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 13, 2013, 01:44:55 pm
Highlighting, with a link you were able to successfully follow (if that was your choice).

Arlington is an ironic example, having been Robert E. Lee's backyard until the government seized it in his absence (so that Lee would come home and face the graves of the war dead).

Yes I read it, I try to not be a "kneejerk mouthbreather with ADD". The article sound familiar from reading it, and I remembered hearing about it at least once a year, usually around Christmas and Easter while living in Arizona. It was usually a fluff piece used as filler on a slow day.

I think the real irony is the fact that a veteran (albeit an atheist) is against a memorial to veterans.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: rebound on December 13, 2013, 03:15:45 pm
Isn't Arlington Nat'l Cemetery Federal land? I don't hear any one complaining about the crosses on the memorial markers for the graves there?

The crosses on the graves at Arlington are by choice of the deceased (or at least the family of the deceased), and now even include Wiccan symbols, if they so choose:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers

Scroll down on the page and see the various designs.  It's actually kind of cool, with the large number and variety of designs.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 13, 2013, 03:35:36 pm
As always, an on-the-mark analysis:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-12-2013/war-on-christmas---s--t-s-getting-weird-edition


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: swake on December 13, 2013, 03:59:41 pm
Yes I read it, I try to not be a "kneejerk mouthbreather with ADD". The article sound familiar from reading it, and I remembered hearing about it at least once a year, usually around Christmas and Easter while living in Arizona. It was usually a fluff piece used as filler on a slow day.

I think the real irony is the fact that a veteran (albeit an atheist) is against a memorial to veterans.

The crosses on the graves at Arlington are completely appropriate and are a good example of how religion can certainly exist on public property. Everyone’s individual faith, or lack thereof, is completely respected and included, equally. A single big lit cross or a lone monument to the Ten Commandments on public property is the antitheses of how religion is handled at Arlington.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: saintnicster on December 13, 2013, 04:15:16 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_National_Cemetery#Grave_markers.2C_niches_and_headstones

Crosses on the gravestones in Arlington are not required and they even have options for those of different faiths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 18, 2013, 12:22:45 pm
http://aattp.org/the-war-on-christmas-has-been-won-in-wisconsin-flying-spaghetti-monster-monument-a-go/

The ‘War on Christmas’ Has Been WON in Wisconsin, Flying Spaghetti Monster Monument a Go!


In the apparently regular annual battle for the soul of the solstice holidays, more commonly known as “the war on Christmas,” a monster made of pasta has apparently won his place in Wisconsin. The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster has erected a monument to their noodle based deity in the state capitol building, alongside the Christian nativity scene, bobble laden holiday tree and a hosted Festivus display.
 
The state capital, which is hosting a series of events to celebrate the multitude of holidays enshrined during these bleak winter months, welcomed the University of Wisconsin’s Atheists, Humanists and Agnostics (AHA) display, with Annie Laurie Gaylor of the Freedom of Religion Foundation saying that “The rotunda is getting very cluttered, but if a devotional nativity display is allowed, then there must be ‘room at the inn’ for all points of view, including irreverency and free thought.”

Beginning in 2005 with the first mention of The Flying Spaghetti Monster deity (or FSM as permitted by made up church doctrine,) in this open letter penned by satirist Bobby Henderson to the Kansas School Board regarding their debate as to whether or not creationism belonged in science class, the Church has already undergone a reform movement, with the Reformed Church of Alfredo, denouncing what they call “the lie” of Chef Boyardee.

Paralleling the absurdist demonstration of a beer can Festivus pole in the Florida state capitol, Wisconsin AHA President Sam Erickson said of the display that he and his fellow non-believers “would prefer to keep our capital secular.”


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 18, 2013, 05:59:38 pm
This is an artist's concept of the Edism monument. Not THE Artist, a member of this forum. Just an artist, and not a particularly good one:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/11442412856_3f2f01055c.jpg)

For some background information, I'm wearing the Trenchcoat of Truth over the Thong of Justice...and Chuck Taylors.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 19, 2013, 08:13:37 am
It is hard to trust a diety with his hand always in his pocket.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on December 19, 2013, 08:18:38 am
It is hard to trust a diety with his hand always in his pocket.

I think he's scratching.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Ed W on December 19, 2013, 09:39:16 am
It is hard to trust a diety with his hand always in his pocket.

Most deities have their hands in someone else's pocket.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: BKDotCom on December 19, 2013, 09:44:31 am
Who wants to start a kickstarter for a FSM monument?
http://www.kickstarter.com/


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2013, 03:20:56 pm
You knew the moratorium was right around the corner...

http://newsok.com/requests-from-satanists-other-groups-spur-call-for-oklahoma-capitol-monument-ban/article/3916036


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on December 19, 2013, 03:37:13 pm
You knew the moratorium was right around the corner...

http://newsok.com/requests-from-satanists-other-groups-spur-call-for-oklahoma-capitol-monument-ban/article/3916036

Seems a very selective moratorium, blocking some but not others.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 20, 2013, 09:56:23 am
Blatantly unconstitutional.  Not to mention hypocritical and just plan old BS.

If there was legitimate fear regarding the pending lawsuit, why not take down ALL monuments that are in question?  They created a "free speech zone" in an attempt to further their religion using the State, but when others wanted to exercise their free speech they immediately shut it down.

Among the most blatant use of Government to favor one expression over others.

Since when did the Christian God need so much help from the State of Oklahoma?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on December 20, 2013, 10:12:03 am
Blatantly unconstitutional.  Not to mention hypocritical and just plan old BS.

If there was legitimate fear regarding the pending lawsuit, why not take down ALL monuments that are in question?  They created a "free speech zone" in an attempt to further their religion using the State, but when others wanted to exercise their free speech they immediately shut it down.

Among the most blatant use of Government to favor one expression over others.

Since when did the Christian God need so much help from the State of Oklahoma?

(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1503227_614889515237591_645340106_n.jpg)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: BKDotCom on December 20, 2013, 10:21:29 am
Who's claiming to love religious freedom?
Certainly not those that thought the 10-c monument was a good idea.



Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on December 20, 2013, 10:29:42 am
Who's claiming to love religious freedom?
Certainly not those that thought the 10-c monument was a good idea.



The point made is that many Christians freak out if a monument of the FSM is requested.  Or Buddha.  Or whatever.  Must have something to do with it making them feel like it invalidates their religion in some form or fashion.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: TeeDub on December 21, 2013, 02:20:12 pm

FSM made the paper.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/no-spaghetti-monster-monument-yet-capitol-sets-moratorium-after-several/article_f818523d-540f-5274-bd04-aeac19b8196e.html


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 22, 2013, 02:55:09 am
Going back to the San Diego Cross controversy, that has been going on since 1913. What the 9th Circuit Court upheld was that it was written into the California State Constitution
Quote
Beginning in 1989, almost ten years before the immediate area around the cross was turned into a war memorial, and ongoing to the present, the Mt. Soledad Cross had been involved in a continuous litigation regarding its legal status. According to the cross's opponents' interpretation of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the No Preference Clause of the California Constitution, it is illegal to display a religious symbol, such as a Christian cross, on public land, as it demonstrates preference to a specific religion and thus violates the separation of church and state

It's been a manipulation and maneuvering issue for years with people trying to protect it, and what is written into the state constitution as a "No Preference" to keep the separation of Church and State. All the court did was uphold the state constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy)



Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on December 23, 2013, 07:39:26 am
Going back to the San Diego Cross controversy, that has been going on since 1913. What the 9th Circuit Court upheld was that it was written into the California State Constitution
It's been a manipulation and maneuvering issue for years with people trying to protect it, and what is written into the state constitution as a "No Preference" to keep the separation of Church and State. All the court did was uphold the state constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Soledad_cross_controversy)



Ever read the California State Constitution?

It starts. . .
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
PREAMBLE

We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this
Constitution.


The courts would need to do a lot of work to separate church from state in that state.  ;)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on December 24, 2013, 01:57:37 am
Ever read the California State Constitution?

It starts. . .
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
PREAMBLE

We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate its blessings, do establish this
Constitution.


The courts would need to do a lot of work to separate church from state in that state.  ;)

I think the courts would be backed up for decades trying to do that for every state.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on January 07, 2014, 01:14:18 am
I didnt know it was so functional... kids can come to Oklahoma and sit on Satan's lap. 


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/06/satanic-temple-unveils-7-foot-goat-headed-baphomet-statue-for-oklahoma-capitol/
(http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Satanic-monument.jpg)





Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on January 07, 2014, 07:00:22 am
"
Lawmakers in Oklahoma, however, have insisted that the Satanists should not be given the same treatment as Christians.

“This is a faith-based nation and a faith-based state,” Rep. Earl Sears (R-Bartlesville) said. “I think it is very offensive they would contemplate or even have this kind of conversation.”"

...and that is the very core of why state endorsement of ANY religion is wrong.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2014, 09:20:17 am
“You are free to practice any religion you choose, as long as it’s Christianity."


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 07, 2014, 10:45:59 am
I didnt know it was so functional... kids can come to Oklahoma and sit on Satan's lap. 


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/06/satanic-temple-unveils-7-foot-goat-headed-baphomet-statue-for-oklahoma-capitol/
(http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Satanic-monument.jpg)






Isn't that their version of Christmas, and the kids are asking for gifts?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on January 07, 2014, 12:22:44 pm
Do you think anyone would be arrested each time that monument was defaced?

They'd have to bring in an out-of-state contractor to build that thing.  Every Oklahoma contractor knows he and his family would be threatened at best, possibly killed if they built it.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on January 07, 2014, 12:47:44 pm
I was always fond of the statues that Tom Green erected for his parents. In the video at about 5.15:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI7JHQ2h584[/youtube]


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2014, 06:38:01 pm
I didnt know it was so functional... kids can come to Oklahoma and sit on Satan's lap. 


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/06/satanic-temple-unveils-7-foot-goat-headed-baphomet-statue-for-oklahoma-capitol/
(http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Satanic-monument.jpg)





What's the over/under on how long until someone sh!ts in its lap?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on January 07, 2014, 07:53:49 pm
What's the over/under on how long until someone sh!tssmoots in its lap?

FIFY


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on January 08, 2014, 06:06:37 am
Will there be a slab or small bowl for human sacrifice?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: DolfanBob on January 08, 2014, 08:48:48 am
Is it just me or is that thing giving the Peace sign?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on January 08, 2014, 10:01:39 am
Tutorial:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/kLNun04UVmm0ko6se6hJpaaHo1_500.jpg)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: swake on January 08, 2014, 10:09:00 am
Tutorial:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/kLNun04UVmm0ko6se6hJpaaHo1_500.jpg)

You could do a ring of hand monuments around the capital


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Gaspar on January 08, 2014, 10:11:13 am
You could do a ring of hand monuments around the capital

Bonehenge.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on January 08, 2014, 12:49:55 pm
You could do a ring of hand monuments around the capital

I'm all for it.

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/6896195cabea42a8adebe07a7639f60f/460x.jpg)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: DolfanBob on January 08, 2014, 01:02:03 pm
I'm all for it.

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/6896195cabea42a8adebe07a7639f60f/460x.jpg)

We have such a cool Gubna.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 08, 2014, 01:36:23 pm
I'm all for it.

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/6896195cabea42a8adebe07a7639f60f/460x.jpg)

Does it say Mongols or Hells Angels on the back of her vest?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on January 08, 2014, 01:40:09 pm
Does it say Mongols or Hells Angels on the back of her vest?

Probably says OHP


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: DolfanBob on January 08, 2014, 03:00:06 pm
She looks more like a Rogues Ol Lady.  ;D


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 08, 2014, 03:02:05 pm
Probably says OHP

Forgot about that. Well at least it doesn't say "If you can read this, the b!tch fell off."


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on January 09, 2014, 01:29:10 pm
Forgot about that. Well at least it doesn't say "If you can read this, the b!tch fell off."

How do you know it doesnt?   ;)

Meanwhile, heres the latest RWE wedge in the constitution's carcass:


“What will disqualify them has really nothing to do with Satan, as such. It’s that it has no historical significance for the State of Oklahoma,” said Rep. Paul Wesselhoft. “The only reason why the Ten Commandments qualified is because at the Capitol, what we do is we make laws. We are lawmakers. Well, one of the earliest laws we have are the Ten Commandments. So therefore, it has historical significance.”


So why were the Confederate flags and Swastikas removed from the state capitol?
They were both prominently displayed there, and both have huge historical significance to our state.  Do we need a history lesson?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: swake on January 09, 2014, 02:02:01 pm
How do you know it doesnt?   ;)

Meanwhile, heres the latest RWE wedge in the constitution's carcass:


“What will disqualify them has really nothing to do with Satan, as such. It’s that it has no historical significance for the State of Oklahoma,” said Rep. Paul Wesselhoft. “The only reason why the Ten Commandments qualified is because at the Capitol, what we do is we make laws. We are lawmakers. Well, one of the earliest laws we have are the Ten Commandments. So therefore, it has historical significance.”


That's not going to fly, if it wasn't for Satan we wouldn't need laws at all.



Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: sauerkraut on January 14, 2014, 02:14:53 pm
We are a Christian nation and we were founded that way so it follows that a monument to the Christian faith is right in line with our history and the growth of our nation. There is nothing historic or in our past to support a satan monument, most likely that movement  it's being done just for spite and for the hate of Christians. Yes to the 10 comandments (10 good rules to follow even if your not a Christian) and a big "NO" to anything else :)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: rebound on January 14, 2014, 02:20:56 pm
We are a Christian nation and we were founded that way so it follows that a monument to the Christian faith is right in line with our history and the growth of our nation. There is nothing historic or in our past to support a satan monument, most likely that movement  it's being done just for spite and for the hate of Christians. Yes to the 10 comandments (10 good rules to follow even if your not a Christian) and a big "NO" to anything else :)

Dude, seriously...


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on January 14, 2014, 02:34:08 pm
Dude, seriously...

I know..right?

http://www.nobeliefs.com/document.htm


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: saintnicster on January 14, 2014, 03:50:11 pm
We are a Christian nation and we were founded that way so it follows that a monument to the Christian faith is right in line with our history and the growth of our nation. There is nothing historic or in our past to support a satan monument, most likely that movement  it's being done just for spite and for the hate of Christians. Yes to the 10 comandments (10 good rules to follow even if your not a Christian) and a big "NO" to anything else :)

Something just hit me... Have you been outside City Hall around lunch time for the last couple of weeks?

EDIT - Actually, more like off and on since mid-November, I think.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on January 14, 2014, 04:33:12 pm
We are a Christian nation and we were founded that way so it follows that a monument to the Christian faith is right in line with our history and the growth of our nation. There is nothing historic or in our past to support a satan monument, most likely that movement  it's being done just for spite and for the hate of Christians. Yes to the 10 comandments (10 good rules to follow even if your not a Christian) and a big "NO" to anything else :)

You're one of the guys you can ask "what's the 10 commandments say?" and you'd remember 2...maybe.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on January 14, 2014, 04:52:12 pm
The Second Commandment is to keep and bear arms if I recall right.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re:
Post by: Conan71 on January 14, 2014, 05:06:07 pm
The Second Commandment is to keep and bear arms if I recall right.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

And I think the First Commandment is admitting you have a problem.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on January 14, 2014, 05:38:42 pm
And there's the 3.2 Commandment "Thou shalt not drink 3.2 beer in sight of the Lord lest He smite thee mightily, dumbass."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: AquaMan on January 14, 2014, 06:00:20 pm
Number five was like, "Honor thy mother and father's real estate trust lest it be encumbered and weakened".


Title: Re:
Post by: Conan71 on January 14, 2014, 06:55:48 pm
And there's the 3.2 Commandment "Thou shalt not drink 3.2 beer in sight of the Lord lest He smite thee mightily, dumbass."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I figured there'd be some smiting and smoting in there.


Title: Re:
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 15, 2014, 12:15:06 am
And there's the 3.2 Commandment "Thou shalt not drink 3.2 beer in sight of the Lord lest He smite thee mightily, dumbass."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Can honestly say, I haven't broken that commandment in a really long time.


Title: Re:
Post by: Red Arrow on January 15, 2014, 07:34:18 am
Can honestly say, I haven't broken that commandment in a really long time.
Me too as long as we limit it to 3.2 beer.   :D


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 15, 2014, 08:01:57 am
Isn't the first Commandment to only workshop the one Jewish God (later revised to include Jesus as then primary God, then God the father, and also a Ghost)?  How is that compatible with secular law?  How is that someone of another faith can follow as an example?

The "10 Commandments are our laws" argument utterly fails at #1.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: BKDotCom on January 15, 2014, 09:37:03 am
We are a Christian nation and we were founded that way
Wrong

so it follows that a monument to the Christian faith is right in line with our history and the growth of our nation. There is nothing historic or in our past to support a satan monument, most likely that movement  it's being done just for spite and for the hate of Christians.
I was under the impression that the 10-commandments monument was done to spite all non Christians

Yes to the 10 comandments (10 good rules to follow even if your not a Christian) and a big "NO" to anything else :)
1)  doesn't apply to non Christians / implies there are other gods / no matching law
2)  doesn't apply to non Christians / farcical (who does this?) / no matching law
3)  doesn't apply to non Christians / every Christian breaks this one / no matching law
4)  doesn't apply to non Christians / seems to only apply to Chick-Fil-A & Hobby Lobby / no matching law
5)  Honor your parents / no matching law
6)  Don't Kill People / We have a winner!
7)  Adultery / there's a law for that
8)  Don't take what's not yours / there's a law for that
9)  Prejury / there's a law for that
10) thought crimes / no law... greed drives the economy

So, of the 10 commandments, 4 match up with laws.
Conspicuously absent from the commandments: "Thow shall not enslave your fellow humans "

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz3EEqtcJME&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL7420408E36541DA4[/youtube]


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: custosnox on January 15, 2014, 12:36:52 pm
Wrong
I was under the impression that the 10-commandments monument was done to spite all non Christians
1)  doesn't apply to non Christians / implies there are other gods / no matching law
2)  doesn't apply to non Christians / farcical (who does this?) / no matching law
3)  doesn't apply to non Christians / every Christian breaks this one / no matching law
4)  doesn't apply to non Christians / seems to only apply to Chick-Fil-A & Hobby Lobby / no matching law
5)  Honor your parents / no matching law
6)  Don't Kill People / We have a winner!
7)  Adultery / there's a law for that
8)  Don't take what's not yours / there's a law for that
9)  Prejury / there's a law for that
10) thought crimes / no law... greed drives the economy

So, of the 10 commandments, 4 match up with laws.
Conspicuously absent from the commandments: "Thow shall not enslave your fellow humans "

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz3EEqtcJME&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL7420408E36541DA4[/youtube]
Wait, there is a law against adultery? Why is Fallin not in jail then?  Anyhow, on to further expand onto your points.

(sauerkraut)
Christian nation? If you mean we are a nation that is a majority Christian, then yeah. If you mean we are a nation founded on Christian principles and built around Christianity as a governmental focus, then I would strongly pick up a history book next time you are at the library. Or, take a moment to at least Google the treaty of thermopylae, which specifically states that we are not a Christian nation. so no, it does not follow that a monument of Christian faith is right in line with our history and the growth of our nation. As far as the Satanic monument, we tried to warn you folks that if you allow one religious monument you had to allow them all. At the time it seemed everyone that was for the 10 commandments was all like "oh, that's okay, it won't bother me one bit." Guess that tune has changed now that it's more than just lip service. No, I would not say that the Satanic monument (or the flood of other requests that have started pouring in) is in spite of and for the hate of Christians, but that it is a statement about the constitutionality of the placement of the 10 commandments and a great way to get the attention of those who thought that allowing their religion to be endorsed was okay.

and the 10 commandments being good rules to follow even if your not a Christian can only be said if you really don't know the 10 commandments, so let's go through them, more thoroughly than BKdotcom did.

I Thou shalt not have any other gods before me Hmmm. let's see here. This one says that you can only have the Judeo god as your god, which pretty much means you can't be anything other than Christian, Jewish, or Islamic. Yeah, great rule for non-Christians, particularly those of other religious trees, or those of us that think all of them are just as mythical as Zeus. Oh, and if we were to have a law that stated this (you know, because it is a basis of our country according to you) it would be in direct violation of the constitution.

II Thou shalt not make to thyself any graven images Well, we have this one all over the place, even the Christians love to break this one. Furthermore, it would pretty much forbid followers of other faiths from having representations of their gods. Also, violates the first amendment on two accounts.

III Thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy God in vain Well, if you don't believe in Yaweh, and you use the name, you are using it in vain. So if you are not Christian (or other Judeo persuasion), this pretty much says you are forbidden from saying a name. Which also goes against the constitution on two accounts.

IV Remember the Sabbeth day to keep it holy Because all non-Christians should have to respect the holy day of the Christians? Do you respect the holy days of other religions? Why should we atheists have to change our Sunday to supposedly make it holy if we don't buy into your myth?

V Honor thy father and thy mother that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee in general, honoring your mother and father is a good idea, but not always. There are a lot of people who have no business being parents, and the child can do to get away from them and their influence the better. In fact, there are situations where honoring one's parents can either make your life crappy, or, in direct conflict with this one, shorten their lives. Also it implies that the Judeo/Christian god is the one that gives you what you have, which endorses that particular religious branch, once again violating the constitution.

VI Thou shalt not kill Hey, finally, a great suggestion for everyone. Too bad the ones who want this monument the most tend to be the ones who want to follow this commandment the least. In related news, did you watch the execution that was done here in Oklahoma recently? Also, this is a law, to some degree or another, in pretty much every civilization ever, so apparently it doesn't need a big monument for us to figure that out as a society.

VII Thou shalt not commit adultery oh, that is a big can of worms, but let us ignore the hypocrisy of this one for a moment. Let's say someone is not of your particular religious persuasion, and they are married, and the couple decide they want to have some extramarital fun. Oh, sure, this bothers you, because, you know, you don't get any period and you think those that get more than their share just isn't right (okay, so I'm guessing at your motivations here, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was dead on), but should they really have to follow this rule just because you don't like it? You can claim that it will cause problems in their marriage, but there is no evidence that it is any more harmful to a relationship than being a prick, and there certainly isn't any law against that. To broaden your understanding of ideas bigger than your own, take a moment to look up polyamory. There are some great articles and stories on the subject.

VIII Thou shalt not steal for simplicity sake, I'll refer back to the kill commandment, because everything I would say about this one is pretty much the same.

IX Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor . Once again, pretty much the same as the steal and kill one, except the only laws against this are in specific cases just as perjury, obstructing justice, liable, and slander.

X Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservent, nor his maidservent, nor his castle, nor anything that is thy neighbors  So no more trying to keep up with the Jones? Wow, this one is really going to put a damper on the whole capitalism thing we have going on here.

So yeah, your arguments are worthless, but then, I shouldn't be surprised on that.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 15, 2014, 01:31:36 pm
Whomever wrote "thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" ain't seen her.

She is smoking.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: BKDotCom on January 15, 2014, 01:50:21 pm
Whomever wrote "thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" ain't seen her.

She is smoking.

Sounds like lots of drama on 56th St.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on May 13, 2014, 12:32:15 pm

Colbert interviews Satan:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage4/the-colbert-report-features-proposed-oklahoma-capitol-satanic-statue/article_9751f070-e946-598c-9970-9b03f01cf5d7.html


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on October 24, 2014, 09:54:15 am
Oklahoma state Capitol's Ten Commandments monument smashed to pieces

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/dc/ddcdecad-24f5-5ead-a257-022c9b2d5424/544a6daf1c871.image.jpg)

Maybe there is a God, and she was pissed?
Under the moratorium, I dont believe they can put it back up, so it's a level playing field now.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepage1/oklahoma-state-capitol-s-ten-commandments-monument-smashed-to-pieces/article_6f24b2e8-b904-5e9d-90ff-e34e0b778ed3.html







Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on October 24, 2014, 09:55:30 am
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13409.msg291792#msg291792


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on October 24, 2014, 09:56:39 am
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13409.msg291792#msg291792

Drat, beat me to it.  You must type faster than I...


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Hoss on October 24, 2014, 10:02:28 am
Drat, beat me to it.  You must type faster than I...

Nope, I got the article about 40 minutes ago.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on October 24, 2014, 10:03:42 am
Nope, I got the article about 40 minutes ago.

Sometimes   I  type  re al   s   l         o                                   w


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 24, 2014, 10:32:59 am
Drunk cheerleader from Nichols Hills or Edmond?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on October 24, 2014, 12:09:07 pm
Drunk cheerleader from Nichols Hills or Edmond?

The Secret Service tells FOX 25 they arrested the suspect after he went to the Federal Court building, admitted to crashing his car into the statue and then making threatening statements against President Barack Obama.
http://www.okcfox.com/story/26883650/car-slams-into-ten-commandments-monument-at-state-capitol

...and Capitol Security found out about it when?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on October 24, 2014, 03:10:33 pm
Apparently Satan told him to do it and Fallin said it will be re-built.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: Townsend on March 10, 2015, 03:25:28 pm
Lawsuit Against Ten Commandments Monument Dismissed

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawsuit-against-ten-commandments-monument-dismissed (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawsuit-against-ten-commandments-monument-dismissed)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201409/10commandments.jpg)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit that challenges a Ten Commandments monument on the grounds of the Oklahoma state Capitol.

U.S. District Judge Robin Cauthron handed down an order Tuesday that dismissed the lawsuit filed by a New Jersey-based nonprofit group, American Atheists Inc., and two of its members in January 2014. Cauthron ruled that the group lacked legal standing to file the lawsuit.

An attorney for the group, Eric O Husby of Tampa, Florida, says he disagrees with the ruling but that no decision has been made to appeal it.

The original monument was erected in 2012 after a bill authorizing it was passed by the Republican-controlled Legislature. That monument was destroyed in October when a car crashed into it. It was replaced with a replica in January.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: TeeDub on March 11, 2015, 09:11:13 am

I was under the impression that the 10-commandments monument was done to spite all non Christians
1)  doesn't apply to non Christians / implies there are other gods / no matching law
2)  doesn't apply to non Christians / farcical (who does this?) / no matching law
3)  doesn't apply to non Christians / every Christian breaks this one / no matching law  
4)  doesn't apply to non Christians / seems to only apply to Chick-Fil-A & Hobby Lobby / no matching law
5)  Honor your parents / no matching law
6)  Don't Kill People / We have a winner!
7)  Adultery / there's a law for that
8)  Don't take what's not yours / there's a law for that
9)  Prejury / there's a law for that
10) thought crimes / no law... greed drives the economy

So, of the 10 commandments, 4 match up with laws.
Conspicuously absent from the commandments: "Thow shall not enslave your fellow humans "


There are more than 4 that match up to laws....

§21-904.  Profane swearing.
Profane swearing consists in any use of the name of God, or Jesus Christ, or the Holy Ghost, either in imprecating divine vengeance upon the utterer, or any other person, or in light, trifling or irreverent speech.
R.L.1910, § 2401.

And as for respect the sabbath, wasn't that taken care of by Oklahoma blue laws?    
ie. liquor sales on sunday (Article 28, section 6) or Car Sales on Sunday (Title 21 section 917-919)


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: saintnicster on March 11, 2015, 09:15:43 am
There are more than 4 that match up to laws....

§21-904.  Profane swearing.
Profane swearing consists in any use of the name of God, or Jesus Christ, or the Holy Ghost, either in imprecating divine vengeance upon the utterer, or any other person, or in light, trifling or irreverent speech.
R.L.1910, § 2401.
God dammit...


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: TeeDub on March 11, 2015, 09:22:00 am
God dammit...

Heh...

§21-903.  Blasphemy a misdemeanor.
Blasphemy is a misdemeanor.
R.L.1910, § 2400.


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: saintnicster on March 11, 2015, 10:42:30 am
There are more than 4 that match up to laws....

§21-904.  Profane swearing.
Profane swearing consists in any use of the name of God, or Jesus Christ, or the Holy Ghost, either in imprecating divine vengeance upon the utterer, or any other person, or in light, trifling or irreverent speech.
R.L.1910, § 2401.

And as for respect the sabbath, wasn't that taken care of by Oklahoma blue laws?   
ie. liquor sales on sunday (Article 28, section 6) or Car Sales on Sunday (Title 21 section 917-919)
Complete with $1 fine. http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69425


Heh...

§21-903.  Blasphemy a misdemeanor.
Blasphemy is a misdemeanor.
R.L.1910, § 2400.

Jeezey creezey, all of Title 21, Chapter 36 http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/Index.asp?ftdb=STOKST21&level=1...  

§21-908 How is _any_ retail allowed in the state on Sundays?


Title: Re: State capitol religious monuments
Post by: patric on March 11, 2015, 01:02:18 pm
How are the other monuments going?

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13409.msg293908#msg293908

Do we need a GoFundMe?