The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

The third police chase in 24 hours in Tulsa ended near 43rd Street and Yale Avenue about 2 p.m. and the driver of the car has been pronounced dead.
The man driving the small sedan was firing shots at officers during the chase, News On 6 sources say. We have not confirmed if officers fired back or the cause of the man's death.

Osage SkyNews 6 captured the chase in its final moments. The car finally came to a rest in the median on Yale near the south side of Promenade Mall.

TPD officers quickly surrounded the vehicle with guns drawn for a few minutes, then moved closer behind bulletproof shields toward the car before determining the driver was unresponsive.

According to SkyNews 6 pilot Will Kavanagh, EMSA did not make any attempt to perform lifesaving measures.

Crime scene tape has been strung across the road and officers are processing the scene.

Drivers should prepare to take an alternate route this afternoon.

The Northern Oklahoma Violent Task Force was involved in the chase.

They flew by my woman's work at 26th and Sheridan. She text me at 2:09 P.M.

She said that it was just undercover, truck and Police SUV that were traveling at a high speed headed South.

Yeah. All of the cars that zipped by my office were black and brown unmarked.

I just got back from a walk.  Something said to go to Best Buy.  Saw a ton of re-route traffic but didn't know why.

Why were there no sirens?  I didn't hear them from Harvard & 41st.

Would have been from the wrong direction.  They were chasing from east to west.. you west of the furthest-most western part of the chase.

Was something wrong with the helicopter, or do they just enjoy driving around town GTA style, putting innocent bystanders at risk?

putting innocent bystanders at risk?

News Chopper 6 was there. Does that count?  ???

There's got to be hours of dashcam video.

I've found that taunting people form helicopters rarely makes them surrender. The only exclusion is if said helicopter was Airwolf, or if you're in a pinch, Blue Thunder.

So was the dude driving the Civic.  If he’s firing at the po-po, it would be nothing for him to run over or shoot a civilian.

Was something wrong with the helicopter, or do they just enjoy driving around town GTA style, putting innocent bystanders at risk?

Was something wrong with the helicopter, or do they just enjoy driving around town GTA style, putting innocent bystanders at risk?



The police helicopter was sold to the taxpayers with the promise that it would end high-speed chases.
That and the fact that police chose the time and place to light the fuse of another deadly high-speed pursuit through rush-hour midtown, it's a legitimate question.

Would you prefer the cops only chase people traveling under 55mph? Above that, and they're free to go?

They were flying red south past 36th & Yale while I was waiting on 36th to turn north on Yale.  MC nearly got clobbered by a brown unmarked unit that turned west off Darlington onto 27th Pl, ostensibly trying to intercept at Yale.  She said even more units were flying west on 31st once she got to Hudson.

I suspect this was an all units call-out.  Must have been at least 30-40 units when I crossed Yale on I-44 30 minutes later.  Wild how many people just on here saw or heard the procession going by. 

Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you really not understand that there is a possible response between a high speed chase and letting people go? Perhaps following them in the chopper keeping ground units out of sight until the fleeing suspect stops/ditches the car/whatever and then apprehend them without putting everyone else on the road at risk. Again, the shooting didn't start until after the pursuit began.

If you're worried about them crawling into a drain, that's what the dogs are for.

News Chopper 6 was there. Does that count?  ???

Turns out he was kind enough to spare the taxpayers hundreds of thousands in future prosecution and incarceration costs.

Only to cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands in future lawsuits and wrongful death settlements.
But I only know what I read:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits

Only to cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands in future lawsuits and wrongful death settlements.
But I only know what I read:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/march-2010/evidence-based-decisions-on-police-pursuits

Uh, the only person harmed in this incident was the fleeing tweaker driver.  No pending lawsuits on this one.

Of course your superior logic over-rides that of people trained in law enforcement.

According to the TW story posted yesterday, he wasn't shooting until after he fled from QT and they had already pursued for a mile or two.

Cleveland Police Chief Mark McGrath announced on Tuesday that following an 11-month investigation his office will issue suspensions for 63 of the 104 officers involved in a 25-minute high-speed car chase that resulted in the fatal shooting of the driver and his passenger.

The officers are being disciplined because of excessive speed, insubordination and failure to request permission to join the pursuit, he said.  Some officers also told state investigators they were frightened and feared for their lives.

The chase involved 63 police cars, according to the investigation.

In March, the U.S. Justice Department launched a review of Cleveland police policies over the possible use of excessive force by officers.
In a wide-ranging review by state agents, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said in February the chase resulted from leadership failures. "Command failed, communications failed, the system failed," DeWine said.

Nine Cleveland police department supervisors were suspended, two demoted and one was fired due to the way they handled the incident, McGrath said. 

A fleeing driver and passenger were killed when officers fired 137 shots at them in the 23-minute chase that involved five dozen cruisers and wove through residential neighborhoods before ending in gunfire.

Police Chief Michael McGrath said the suspensions were the result of disciplinary hearings, and violations ranged from insubordination to driving too fast during the chase.

The hearings did not involve any of the officers involved in the shooting because a county grand jury is investigating possible criminal wrongdoing among the 13 officers who fired their weapons. No weapon or shell casings were found in the fleeing car.

An initial review of the chase found 75 patrol officers violated orders, but the disciplinary hearings reduced that number to 64 officers. All but one received a suspension, with the longest being 10 days, McGrath said.  Some of the officers received a written warning.

Police previously announced punishments for 12 supervisors stemming from the chase. One sergeant was fired. A captain and lieutenant were demoted, and nine sergeants were suspended.

The nighttime chase began last November when an officer thought he heard a gunshot from a car speeding by the police station in downtown Cleveland. A parking lot attendant thought it might have been a car backfire, a theory endorsed by the driver’s family.

The officer jumped into his patrol car and radioed for help. The chase went through neighborhoods, onto Interstate 90, and eventually ended in East Cleveland.

Driver Timothy Russell, 43, was shot 23 times and passenger Malissa Williams, 30, was shot 24 times.

McGrath said Tuesday that some of the officers continued the chase after being told to stop because they thought an officer was in trouble. He said the officers who were disciplined were honest and professional during the review process. He also said police supervisors failed to take charge of the chase and allowed it to escalate.

The union has said the shootings were justified because the driver tried to ram an officer.

Uh, the only person harmed in this incident was the fleeing tweaker driver.  No pending lawsuits on this one.

And the guy this one tortured for a while with his buddy....  The three were dealing/producing/consuming meth, and the one they kidnapped was a buddy who got caught and offered a deal, so he ratted on the two who then kidnapped and beat him up.  This one was already over the edge - way far gone - and having the shotgun, from stuff I have heard about him, a cop standoff/shootout was pretty much inevitable.

Must be something to have little green men shouting in his ear the whole time.  I never got the idea behind meth or cocaine.  I enjoy sleep too much to be up for four or five days in a row.

Ah, the War On Drugs.
That justifies everything.

On meth and other drugs, sure.  On marijuana?  I've believed we should have legalized that before the turn of the century.  Are you familiar with the term 'Money Pit', as it relates to the LEO FAIL that has been the war on pot?  Legalize it and give the states taxation rights like they do with tobacco.  Two birds/one stone.  Pun intended.

I think pot was legal before the turn of the previous century.
 

I think pot was legal before the turn of the previous century.
 

On meth and other drugs, sure.  On marijuana?  I've believed we should have legalized that before the turn of the century.  Are you familiar with the term 'Money Pit', as it relates to the LEO FAIL that has been the war on pot?  Legalize it and give the states taxation rights like they do with tobacco.  Two birds/one stone.  Pun intended.

So was cocaine, heroin (any opiate).  Your point is?

Now the potheads in Colorado are pissed off about corporate MJ since it was legalized.  Did we not see that coming?

Who says dope doesn't make you stupid?

Hell, just legalize it nationally and that would solve a lot of problems.

Latin American drug cartels wouldn't like that at all!
 

Hell, just legalize it nationally and that would solve a lot of problems.

Government only seems adept at making things more complicated.  We would need a whole new bureaucracy with 5000+ agents to oversee that clusterfark.

When government legalizes anything it has the need to regulate it to death to keep the weak, dumb ones from hurting themselves.

Why?  Just put it under the same agency that regulates tobacco and/or alcohol.  Problem solved.

Why?  Just put it under the same agency that regulates tobacco and/or alcohol.  Problem solved.

That’s too obvious and logical of a solution, Hoss.  Even if they did that, I’m sure they would see the “need" to add thousands to government payroll to oversee it.  Metastasis is all our current leaders seem to understand.

Besides the private prison company lobbyists will never allow it.  There’s simply too much tax payer money flowing into their coffers for keeping evil and dangerous dope smokers off our sidewalks.

Love this story about our police.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/two-tulsa-police-officers-elated-to-assist-in-birth/article_573666fa-56b8-5e14-a752-8b76e01b58bf.html

Most disappointed? Patric, of course.

You two are harsh.

patric has pointed out many examples of police brutality and or police abuse. It turns out that he is often right and that there are some bad apples in any barrel.

I am glad that a citizen like him cares and writes about them. The stories are not generally picked up or explained from traditional media. Can he be obsessive? Yes. But no more obsessive than guido or gaspar writing about democrats.

guido and patric are very alike. Embrace the differences rather than attack them.

It's a nice story.  It's a shame it has to be made into something negative due to feelings toward another poster.

You and RM need to get beyond your condescension.   

I actually help victims of this abuse.

Ain't my feelings towards a poster, it's my reality towards an anti-cop obsessive. I have read over and over that guy's incessant attacks on police, and the fact I am calling him out--in this context--is more than appropriate. You and RM need to get beyond your condescension.   

As for police misconduct in general, other than b!tching about it, what else does he or anyone in here do about it? I actually help victims of this abuse. But I keep in mind that these people are in large part doing the best they can, risking their lives, and doing good works.

Government only seems adept at making things more complicated.  We would need a whole new bureaucracy with 5000+ agents to oversee that clusterfark.

When government legalizes anything it has the need to regulate it to death to keep the weak, dumb ones from hurting themselves.

Why?  Just put it under the same agency that regulates tobacco and/or alcohol.  Problem solved.

Why put it under any agency?  That's just another form of prohibition.  We don't have a bloated, pseudo-military regulatory agency for oak trees, poinsettias, or bermuda grass...why would marijuana need one?


BATF is the bloated, pseudo-military organization, in case anyone is still confused about them and their nonsense.

They exist for jobs, tax collections and protection from soul-less corporations who would spray marijuana coatings on children's cereal if they could.

Why put it under any agency? 

The trick is to collect more in taxes than are spent on salaries and overhead to collect those taxes.

That is a failing we can all agree on. David Boren championed bottom up accounting when he was governor. He wanted each department to submit a budget from scratch each fiscal year and justify each expense rather than taking the previous budget and adding a % for inflation, growth, salaries etc. That would force managers to establish objectives and the cost to reach them. I don't remember if he had much success.

The trick is to collect more in taxes than are spent on salaries and overhead to collect those taxes.

Generally, the food and drug folk exist in order to make sure the product meets certain quality standards. I would think you of all people would want quality bud.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3755/11308769584_7937a86a74_m.jpg)


Take a guess as to what law enforcement agency wrote this story in exchange for some exclusive ride-alongs.....
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Commission-set-to-stop-underage-people-from/L0zKRvsjcUS_dlsT77cUeQ.cspx



Someday, medical professionals may prevail:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/11/arizona_medical_marijuana_chronic_pain_gina_mecagni.php

Get over yourself

You can bet I will be "viva la RM" from now on.

The Northern Oklahoma Violent Task Force was involved in the chase.

The "task force" bragged they had this guy under surveillance for weeks, but they wait till he goes to a crowded shopping center to do a military-style takedown.
Is it ego or just bad judgement?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/metro-briefs-for-nov/article_426ebc6a-7a7f-5e1b-94bd-84d1800abe57.html

Why are you so quick to blow everything out of context?   The article states "Detectives had received information that Hamm was staying in Owasso and had been running surveillance on him. On Friday, they located him and followed him to a Lowe’s in the city, Roberts said."