The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

The Creek Nation breaks ground today on Margaritaville. The project is now up to a $335 million expansion of the River Spirit Casino with a 483 room 26 story hotel tower, new theater and relocation of the river trail.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/taller-pricier-margaritaville-hotel-tower-planned-for-river-spirit-casino/article_a7ae1f64-e644-5078-945f-a77e13c614cf.html

Southies Rejoice!

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sWmHfOMM3i8/T9IayV8XwwI/AAAAAAAACw0/E86zo4sfXj0/s1600/rejoice+with+others2.jpg)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/35fc307d2bc70394c8be604ccceb321c/tumblr_mi4pvvD1yF1qihx7io1_400.gif)

Love it when they draw in those ferry boats and canoes in the luscious deep blue waters of the adjoining Arkansas River.

Have you had your vision checked lately?
 
 ;D

The trail and creek improvements look nice.

Also nice to see... well, anyone making river-facing destination development.

I have that sextagenarian(sp?) optical malady. I see what pleases me! Apparently the artist who did the rendering has it too.

Maybe people consuming and extricating blue margaritas will change the color of the Arkansas river around the new hotel?

Green river all year round?

Perhaps they plan on painting the sand bars or covering the whole area with blue tarps. Very creative solution and likely to get national attention from the art world.

note: my sense of cynical humor may elude some readers. I am happy for the Natives that they are doing so well they can suck even more money out of the community and perhaps put it towards stopping wind power generation thereby strengthening their oil and gas interests. Really, ecstatic.

Blue tarps would be good.  When the wind blows, they would ripple in the breeze, simulating the effect of a gentle breeze over a cool ocean beach....


As for the money - well, you don't think they deserve some kind of reparation?  This way at least it doesn't come directly out of our pockets as tax payers.  And it's gonna take a really long time before they begin to get even....much more than the 90+ years since Tulsa's "adventure".

All the outdoor party people should really enjoy that evening West Bank Stank that we all love.

Uh, the taxpayers are exactly how the river part of this development is hoped to be funded! It's already being proposed for yet another vote, and the hook is the gathering place on Riverside. It's probably going to be billed as a necessity for the gathering place (even though the park has already been fully approved without it). One way or the other, I'm thinking the tribe is already counting on taxpayers to fund a large part of their project.

I just think they can do better. It seems so.....Vegas white eyes.....

No amount of reparations would be enough though. I have a lot of Cherokee blood but I can't help but see that had the English, French or Spaniards not destroyed their culture, took their land and their lives, the next boat load from somewhere else would have.

I'd like to see more detailed plans for what they're doing with the bike trail.  Are they building it dual lane like the ones north of 71st?  I thought at one time the future plan was to have the dual bike/jogging trail extend south to the Jenks bridge. 

I would also think this would provide more impetus to building the low water dam south of the turnpike bridge so there's continously water in the river, and potential for a water taxi run by the Creeks between Riverfront Crossing, the aquarium and the casino/hotel. 

The picture in the TW shows the bike trail along the river bank and elevated on bridges in places.

Per the TW, the south part of the new trail will be complete "in 2015" and the north part (including a new bridge over Fred Creek) complete "after 2015".  Hopefully that is 2016, which is when the entire project should be complete.  And hopefully it is a dual-use trail split for bikes and joggers. 

A not physically split trail is fine if it's wide enough.

It's fine in areas that are not very busy i.e the west bank trail by Turkey Mtn.  But the east bank trail should be dual lane all the way from 11th to the Jenks bridge, especially if they are rebuilding it anyway why not match what has already been built north of 71st.  Eventually the non-Creek sections would be updated between 71st and Joe Creek and south of the casino to 96th.  That way you have a continous separated bike and jogging path with zero intersections the entire length, which is sonething few cities have in such a prime location.

My point is that they don't have to be physical separated. A striped dual trail 12 ft wide is just as usable as two 4ft trails separated.

Somehow a grass median seems to act as a more noticeable boundary for neglectful parents with their nose buried in their phone than a line on asphalt does.  Not much better, but it does seem to help.

Everyone needs to be on alert at the pedestrian bridge and between the 21st Street bridge and Elwood's. I'm always amazed when I see the oblivious gaggle of zombies causing a pile up in these areas. One day I witnessed a biker take a fall because he could not escape a wild toddler on the loose whose mother was nose in phone.

It wasn't on the trails/in the parks, but I had a woman jump all over me in the grocery section of the 101st & Memorial Target last week after her out of control daughter, 4 maybe 5 years old, ran out from an aisle and right into the side of my shopping cart. The kid fell down, started crying and about 15 seconds later here came her "concerned mother" iPhone still in hand. Somehow that was my fault and the woman began screaming at me. I simply told her what happened and tried to move on and she refused to believe it and kept up with her crazed rant while following me. It wasn't until another woman told her that she had seen what happened and it wasn't my fault that she began to calm down a bit.

The best part is that after she finally scoops up her daughter, screaming at me was more important, another of her kids, this one a boy, comes running up with a pair of Batman pajama bottoms he wants. I would guess the boy was 8 or 9, far too young to be wandering Target alone.

Mother of the year material right there...

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Great example, Mom!  She acts like a jackass to a complete stranger in front of her kids.  How much you want to bet she can't figure out why her kids act like wild banshees?

For those who like to speculate a little real information never hurts.

The Creek Nation has been and continues to be committed to the trail relocation and improvement (so much so, that the lights which match the new River Parks 'standard' were purchased some time ago and have been in storage for a couple of years) that it was one of the significant points Chief Tiger made to the 600+ at the Ground Breaking ceremony a couple of weeks ago.

From the trail plan previously approved by the Creek Nation (now a bit superseded in detail, but the intent remains) by Land Plan; the trail improvements include a single 20' trail behind the Hotel, Margaritaville, Pool area, Land Shark Landing, and Show Room Theater (but if there is room we may be able to squeeze in dual 10's for a portion as the design finalizes in the very near future).  Overall the trail is planned to essentially match the River Parks standard with dual trails where possible.  
 
Be patient it will happen and I predict well received (ok by most around here anyway).

Kirby

Ps.  Also thhought about recomending thermal striping on the dual trail vs paint, as it is raised a bit which might be more of a lane wonder deterrent than paint, any thoughts from you trail users?

Thanks for the information.  Post more often.

Candy-gram

Speaking as a frequent user: I don't think we need it; when I see lane wander it is mostly to avoid congestion. I rarely see trail users that don't understand the bike versus pedestrian lanes (though people on small wheels (skates/skateboards/inline) use both lanes with equal regularity).

I think it would be a good idea. I also think it would be wise to change the paint color from brown to something more visible. The brown is hard to see against the asphalt. I think a lot of confusion stems from that alone. And rollerbladers never seem to know which side to be on. "I'm a person, but I'm wearing wheels! Ah!"

Regardless of whether there are dual trails or a single trail, anything will be better than the current trail placement. I'm surprised more people haven't been injured by excited casino patrons.

Great to hear those details.  Hope they decide to do two 10 foot wide separated lanes where they can though having some areas 20' single is fine (like at the new bridge).  Do you know what kind of interaction this trail will have with the casino/new development?  Access to the riverfront restaurant from the trail would be nice.

He's the project manager for the construction project, so he should know.

I'd rather not have thermal striping as I'm prone to ride the trails when it's wet out and it can pose a hazard to cyclists when it's wet.  I don't believe it improves the situation of lane wandering.  Divided trails would be nice but 20' even if it's not divided is even better than what is currently between 71st & the creek to the north of 81st. 

Thanks for the update.

Below is a link to the live camera feed from the casino construction.

http://www.riverspirittulsa.com/new-casino-construction/ (http://www.riverspirittulsa.com/new-casino-construction/)

Kewl, thanks.

Still has a way to go:

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/23690097_SA.jpg)

Just tread carefully:

http://www.newson6.com/story/28719541/construction-in-tulsa-puts-americas-bird-in-danger

Actually unlike what some media and ODWC (who didn't actually have jurisdiction but loves headlines) said, this was not a specific part of the project (and work on the project was never stopped) but the location was part of a route utilized by a sub-contractor to a private disposal site for rock and unsuitable soils.  

Overall, this was akin to it being the Casino's fault should a concrete truck run a red light on the way back to the batch plant after making a delivery.  

Specifically the location was across the river and to the North of the project on lands owned by the Nation, those eagles were origionally nesting further North but moved late or maybe relocated to the old nest (next to the sand plant) for those familiar with the area.  

Lastly, I've known about eagle nest protection zones for some time and am working on multiple sites with active nests but with this event I researched the Bald Eagle protection and found a well written document from USF&W but was surprised read that unless you specifically disturb (read, run-off or destroy a nest) there are only recommended seperation criteria but had we know this sub was going to resume hauling and that those eagles had choosen that onest we would have prevented the situation.  Oh and the eagles, are still there just like the pair nesting adjacent to Highway 75 at the Creek Turnpike.     Posted for PMg

Are you posting on behalf of Vision 2025, PMG or personally?

PMg in this instance, I only have one log in.

Cool.  I wasn't trying to be rude, was just curious as I thought I saw a PMG trailer at the casino site the other day.

You are correct. PMg Native is the Owner's Rep/PM on the project.

There is a pair of eagles at least trying to nest in Broken Arrow in the 91st and 145th E Ave area.

You were'nt, no worries.

Saw this posted on another forum.  Is that road along the banks where the new river trail will be located?  Should look pretty good once they install trees/landscaping.
(http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12761&d=1468194745)

Anyone know how much higher the water level is supposed to be here once they build the Jenks dam?  Just curious if it will be much higher than the current level along the rip rap when this was taken or higher up, and if it will back up into Fred Creek which has been incased in concrete..  Right there next to Margaritaville makes the most sense for a future river shuttle dock.

The vision website says it is 7 feet at the dam. It peters out by 71st St.  So my guess is 2-3' of rise at 85th St.

Also... in the long tradition of thread drift, I saw this on the vision website:

http://www.visiontulsa.com/economic-development/arkansas-river-development/

Currently announced river projects include eliminating parkland, adding a strip mall and a big box project (in addition to the casino).   >:(

Personally, I don't consider the proposed 71st St. project to be river-centric nor in conformance with the intent of the Corridor Master Plan.

Got a non-broken version?

This?
(http://api.newson6.com/newsimages/slideshow/5a2dceba-46c2-4a3b-9276-1cc493629395.jpg)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/ee/5ee6460d-dca7-5e6e-b876-5b1dacc657da/52b69d0080a2c.image.jpg)

Edit:  here's an old sat photo:  https://goo.gl/maps/AM8HXoe9VMT2

Yes that will be the trail.  The landscaping is more subdued than as shown but I believe it will be very nice.  That is also not the final design for the pool area.

Garbage.

Garbage is at the Brady Theatre on Wed
http://www.protixonline.com/events/details/?event_id=462

Now that I would pay to go to.

Lol...Dingle-berry....

Will the trail be smooth asphalt/concrete like the rest of the system (as opposed to the stylized pavers shown). I can certainly live with it for a 1/4 mile on a bike, but it would sure suck for skate boards or roller skates. Let alone anyone on a scooter or those hover board things.

I'm pretty excited for the new trail behind the casino to open up. Stroke of genius by the Nation: eliminates traffic/trail user concerns, makes trail users happy, and adds life to the back of the building. Coupled with water in the river, and what I hear is a really neat pool design, could be really neat. Hope they make it easy to stop for a cool beverage from the trail.

Hmm the aerial pic shows up on my iPhone but not my iPad.  

(http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12761&d=1468194745)

No surprise here.

If they put a dome over it, we could actually have the palm trees!

Yes there will be and food too.

It will be smoooooth asphalt like the rest of the trail system.  The section from behind the parking garage to about the theater (south end) is constructed to serve as both the trail and emergency access with fire dept. gates for access.

Good.

Not the answer I was expecting, but good.

It was designed to the new River Parks trail standard and will be a 20' wide single trail due to space constraints.

Not pavers as shown in the rendering ... that's good ... not good that pavers are shown in the rendering, but good that the final product will be relatively smooth asphalt pavement, not unit pavers, which don't provide a good walking surface.

So just split down in the middle with bikes on one side and joggers/walkers on the other?  And is the rip rap the permanent bank or will there be a concrete embankment along the river? 

Yes split just like the other single lane sections and the rip rap is the final erosion protection however it is a vegetated with live willow stalks so it should grow up. 

Does the new trail start right after the Joe Creek bridge so it runs closer to the river behind the smoke shop and old casino? 

I thought I had heard they eventually want to build a new bridge over the creek just for the trail like they did at Crow Creek since the current bridge is pretty narrow.  Not sure if it is part of this phase or not.

Yes the revised trail will skirt the entire property and begins at the Joe Creek bridge and returning to Riverside at the very South end of the property (where the construction entrance is now, that becomes the trail).  As part of the River project in the Tulsa Vision proposals I had requested a new bridge of Joe Creek to reduce the hazard however it was cut for funding issues. Ultimately, I hope the City will fund this in some way, through trail grants or some such and coordinate it with the new Joe Creek trail being constructed in the North bank of the creek.

Schedule wise we are hopeful the trail will open with the Hotel in December.

Great to hear the Joe Creek trail will be extended to the river, are they rehabbing the existing portion to 61st?  I've always thought that would be the best east-west connector for bikes/joggers across south Tulsa from the river all the way to LaFortune Park.  Hopefully funding eventually becomes available for a new bridge there, it sounds like probably from private sources or the Creek nation.

"Eliminating parkland."

That is so misleading.  Yes, technically, it is park land.  But in actuality?  It's a few volleyball courts that could easily be moved across the street to an actual park, or probably should have been factored into The Gathering Place.  It's a relatively small plot of land that really is mislabeled as a park.  As long as the bike trail stays, not sure what the fuss is all about.

To the best of my knowledge the discussed potential Joe Creek bridge will not be funded by the Creek Nation, after all it is the City's creek.

You are right, Stanley.

Aside from the fact this land was gifted to the city under the proviso it was to remain undeveloped park land or the fact the Mayor’s economic development director and the public trust which was supposed to hold this land conspired to cheap sell the land for about 1/6 the value of surrounding land (in closed door sessions), there’s nothing to be in a fuss about.

cannon_fodder's phrase "eliminating parkland" is not misleading.  It's spot-on.

Parkland is being eliminated to make space for abundant surface parking and a run-of-the-mill strip / box retail development (that turns away from the river and the trail).  I don't see how anyone could be misled by cannon_fodder's 100% truthful and completely accurate description.

so the new dam will also turn the Arkansas blue I guess.
(http://api.newson6.com/newsimages/slideshow/5a2dceba-46c2-4a3b-9276-1cc493629395.jpg)

That piece of land North of where Peoria and Riverside come together,  directly West of Tom's Cycles,  would be a good place for REI, etc.  It was purchased back in 2008 to build a hotel, but that obviously hasn't happened.  City could help work out a deal on that land instead of basically giving away public land.

The new trail will finally open in April.  Long time coming and I look forward to checking it out.  Still wish a new Joe Creek bridge had been included but hopeful that can be built in the future.

Got an official announcement, rendering, photos, and/or map ?

From KOTV http://m.newson6.com/story.aspx?story=34395171&catId=112042 (http://m.newson6.com/story.aspx?story=34395171&catId=112042)

It looks like a single trail but built to the same design standards as the trail extension south of 71st to Joe Creek.  The trail run next to the river bank with a new bridge over Fred Creek before joining back up with the existing trail at the south end of the casino property eliminating all of the road crossings.

Vision 2025 mentioned the new Joe Creek bridge was discussed but dropped due to lack of funding.  This will continue to be a pinch point because the sidewalk on the Riverside bridge is really narrow.  That would be a great future improvement to have a dedicated trail bridge over the mouth of Joe Creek to connect to this new trail.

After years of transiting those entrances in front of the casino, they will finally get this back trail open just in time for me to move away.  8)

All those curb cuts are an excellent example how they make an area pedestrian un-friendly (I realize the area is not pedestrian friendly for many other reasons).  It was like running a mini obstacle course while learning to communicate "please don't squish me by turning right on red" with your eyes.  Particularly after riding miles with no curb cuts. I was getting proficient in my track stand abilities though.  ;)

This new trail will be great.  Glad they incorporated access to the bar/pool area too.

So you won't miss playing frogger with the casino patrons I take it?

I assume I will have patrons to dodge on the trail near the pool and bar areas. At least that is a fair fight.  Bicyclist vs. dually pickup rarely ends with a bicyclist win.  ;)

It was a difficult situation especially with the original casino being there before the trail, I am really proud to have been part of the fix.  From the North, the new trail route follows Joe Creek from Riverside to the River then follows the river to the South end of the property then up the construction access ramp to rejoin the existing trail as it goes on South.  the new trail is a 20' wide single trail designed and constructed to the new River Parks standard (including lighting and plus cameras).  As for access to the pool area, trail users will be able to enter the property from the trail and can access the 'dry side' of the pool bar and the casino itself but not the pool area which is reserved for hotel guests only.  The trail is scheduled to open the first of April and then the old trail comes out.

I'm pretty excited.

The solution actually came fairly quickly as far as infrastructure problems are concerned.  When the casino was a "bingo parlor" it was a non-issue.  When it grew to be a casino it started being an issue.  When it became a hotel, casino, parking garage, entertainment complex...it was an issue. Add to that growth the trail growth.  Ten years ago who would have thought trail use past the Creek Casino would have been an issue worth solving. 

Glad it is, and I'm glad it was done.  Really looking forward to riding the new trail!

Shouldn't/hopefully won't be an issue as the congregation/bike parking area is up at the pool/lawn level and the trail is 5+feet below.

ditto..  Looks somewhat like the trail along the riverwalk

River Spirit Hotel was awarded the AAA Four Diamond rating.  http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171031006046/en/River-Spirit-Casino-Resort-Receives-AAA-Diamond (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171031006046/en/River-Spirit-Casino-Resort-Receives-AAA-Diamond)

Some hotel pics I hadn't seen before from the TW: http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/photo-gallery-look-inside-the-four-diamond-river-spirit-casino/collection_13e3a186-3e5e-5b60-be09-546d418bf8be.html#19 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/photo-gallery-look-inside-the-four-diamond-river-spirit-casino/collection_13e3a186-3e5e-5b60-be09-546d418bf8be.html#19)

I've been only once but enjoyed the setting by the pool.  Though the river looked more like this when I was there, I can imagine it's not as nice when full of sand..
(https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/-rbJEvX3k78EqRYhuhQSXw/o.jpg)

It turned out great.  We took some friends there a week or so ago from out of town and they were also impressed.  The employees really understand customer service too.

However...  I do have to criticize the house margaritas.  I assumed they would be a loss leader at a place called Margaritaville and be awesome... but they failed to live up to my expectations.

My husband has been playing music there every Friday evening 5-8 since June. They have since cancelled 5-8 music on Friday and Saturday and he now plays Wednesdays 5-8. It's a great gig. And he's a great singer/songwriter/guitarist. Come check him out in the Volcano Stage sometime! The food in Margaritaville is really quite good.

www.randybrumley.com