The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Are we going to have a stormgasm of blizzard coverage in the next day or so?  Personally, if we do get 6 inches of snow, I'm taking a vacation day - the proven old fart method of dealing with inclement weather and our less-than-skilled area motorists.

Are we going to have a stormgasm of blizzard coverage in the next day or so?  Personally, if we do get 6 inches of snow, I'm taking a vacation day - the proven old fart method of dealing with inclement weather and our less-than-skilled area motorists.

Don't go run to the grocery store. I don't expect Tulsa to get any crippling snow. Sadly, I believe there will be school Tuesday.

Apparently we are under a state of emergency now.
http://www.newson6.com/story/21344421/state-of-emergency-includes-tulsa-county-and-much-of-ne-oklahoma?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

(http://iupuioeo.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/shocked2.jpg?w=263&h=289)

On their way to stormageddon:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BD-vV7-CcAAePh1.jpg)

Dude driving looks scaringly like Philip Seymour Hoffman from "Twister"...

As my sister appropriately put it.

SnowFAIL™

I guess I better hurry home so I can watch the cute female reporters in all their snow gear.

C'mon Sara Goldenberg and Lacie Lowry!! Show me your boots!!

Hey it's only fair...if the wife gets to watch the Oscars and drool over some greasy haired what's his name then I can watch the cute female reporters!!!!

Put Chera Kimiko of KOKI-23 out there too, and I would be watching with popcorn! Oops, she is behind the desk over at KOTV/KQCW now, so I guess it's not gonna happen. But then neither did the blizzard. :)

The blizzard was never gonna happen for us.  I guess some people don't pay attention.   ::)

My bad, you are right, it was just supposed to be snow here, and in fact we did get some snow. And there was a blizzard in western Oklahoma. ::)

I actually do pay attention to the weather guys and gals, and think they do a decent job. The meteorologists and general weather coverage here is as good, if not better, than anywhere in the country. Forecasting is a very difficult science, and no one gets it 100 percent accurate.

It sure seems like they should miss equally in either direction as far as snow amounts. But when they miss, isn't it always significantly less snow than they say?

Wasn't the last big snowfall a couple of years ago a surprise?

Surprise- media hype and crying "wolf"... The hype was really getting bad before the "storm" hit. Almost seems like the media is hoping for severe storms and grim tolls and are disapointed when nothing happens.

you know none of these guys obviously.  But then again, why doesn't that surprise me.

I only know them by their actions and what they do. I only know the local media by how they act and respond. "White death is coming" Take cover!!

I know many of these meteos personally through spotter classes.  You have no idea what you're talking about.  Not surprising.

Ok, so they are nice guys, but they really stired up a panic none the less. "White-Death" is coming! Why such a panic & hype for just a few inches of snow anyhow?

Ok, so they are nice guys, but they really stired up a panic none the less. "White-Death" is coming! Why such a panic & hype for just a few inches of snow anyhow?

since when does predicting 2 - 4 inches of snow equate saying white death is coming? People panicked and caused the hype all on their own.  

If we all ignored him, he would eventually poison someone else's well.

Meh, he's kind of like a King Of The Hill character.  I can almost hear a Hank Hill twang when he writes.

Meh, he's kind of like a King Of The Hill character.  I can almost hear a Hank Hill twang when he writes.

The television news media tends to hype things, especially the national television news media.

I don't think the weather guys like Travis intentionally hype things, they are just trying to warn people about a potential danger. Every spring storm season people complain when their TV shows are interrupted by weather coverage, but I admire what the meteorologists do. I never did get it straight what happened to Jon Slater at KOKI a few years ago, but if he was suspended (and subsequently quit) for interrupting American Idol, that is shameful. I didn't know he was in OKC now until I saw it in the recent Chera Kimiko thread.

Most of the time nothing happens, but when something like OKC May 1999 or Joplin May 2011 occurs, it's serious. It's better to err on the side of caution.

I am a fan of the weather men and women, and have been since I was a kid watching Don Woods and Lee Woodward. Like everyone I might make a joke when they miss the mark, like with the snowfall amounts the other day, but I think they are doing good work.

Slater had more problems than interrupting American Idol...trust me.

Slater had more problems than interrupting American Idol...trust me.

The blizzard was never gonna happen for us.  I guess some people don't pay attention.   ::)

What was predicted was pretty much what happened.
Sometimes people don't realize these predictions are not just for Tulsa metro, but the entire area a broadcast signal reaches.

It's not like they didn't show a map of the affected area and how many inches and what type of precip was predicted.  Tulsa was on the thin end.  They were pretty clear that south Tulsa County might only see a dusting.   That was a pretty good indicator of 1 to 3" in mid-town.  No reason to raid Reasor's, top off the tank, and test fire the generator over that.

...however.

There have been instances where the forecast was off by quite a bit in the other way.

I still went to the store, but not because of the storm.  Out of groceries.  And went Saturday morning so it wasn't crazy.

Our good neighbor QuikTrip spiked the price of gasoline 15 cents in anticipation of our first big winter storm, and since this is supposed to be more of an ice event, get ready to pat AEP on the back for burying so many power lines after the last big one.

About the only positive thing about loosing your power in winter, is you can move most of your refrigerated goods outside.  ;D

I upgraded my generator last spring. I figure now that I spent the money on something I can run the whole house on, I’ll never need it.  Doesn’t it always work that way?

Our good neighbor QuikTrip spiked the price of gasoline 15 cents in anticipation of our first big winter storm, and since this is supposed to be more of an ice event, get ready to pat AEP on the back for burying so many power lines after the last big one.

About the only positive thing about loosing your power in winter, is you can move most of your refrigerated goods outside.  ;D

Curious, I filled my tank for 2.86 a gal at the one on Yale nr 51st after 9:45 tonight. Which QT do you live near so I can avoid it. 

Did you happen to notice what it was 24 hours earlier?

Just curious, I recall a couple of weeks ago after the mayoral election a poster on here  (jokingly I presume) noted that QT spiked their prices as spite for their candidate not winning.  Now they were cited for raising prices again yesterday.  Since the entire market does the same, is QT singled out because it is the local kid?  An inquiring new member would like to know.....

Incidentally, I did stop at one in Georgia the other day and the quality of service and cleanliness clearly stood out compared to whatever else they call a C-store down there.

Simma down...the ice won't be that bad tonight.

If you dont count a helicopter making an emergency landing in Claremore because it iced over...

...and those gas prices; ten-cent spikes were unheard of here before Hurricane Katrina. 

Was that helicopter by any chance black?

The only one I know of that doesn't (or didn't) follow QT's lead was Shell.  We all know where they've gone in the last five years.

Did you get one that's permanently wired and plumbed (natural gas)?

No it runs on that $2.79 $2.85 $2.99 $3.09 QT gas.  Previous genny was 4000 watts.  Finally got one with 8750 watts.  Won't fire the AC compressor, but it will run everything else including deep freeze, fridge, and the most essental: kegerator.  Oh yeah, furnace fan too.

Depending on how much your furnace has computer control, be careful with generators.  I trashed a TV with a generator that had a faulty phase.  The 110V side still had some problems.
 

I have frequently thought about getting a whole house, permanently installed, natural gas fueled, automatic take-over generator but haven't stepped up to the price yet.

It would be really convenient for me but really essential for mom if I was out of town.  There is no way she could fire up the portable generator.

I have frequently thought about getting a whole house, permanently installed, natural gas fueled, automatic take-over generator but haven't stepped up to the price yet.

It would be really convenient for me but really essential for mom if I was out of town.  There is no way she could fire up the portable generator.

Forgot to add, mine has electric start as well as recoil.  Worthless if the battery has taken a dump, but as long as it’s hooked up to a trickle charger, it should be just fine.

Lucky one here.  My brother is an electrical engineer and has done many builds (including the new Rogers County Courthouse) so if I should think about getting one he can not only help install, but he can get me a deal as well.

Although the last major outage was the July windstorm (72 hours).  I don't worry a whole lot about it right now.  But with mother getting a little older, I would like to have something in case it goes out while I'm away at work.

I was going to suggest it’s not a bad idea with your mother at home.

It wouldnt be necessary to switchover the entire house, just critical circuits like furnace fan, refrigeration and some strategic lights (here's where LEDs really pay off).  Rural folks will want to include a water pump.  Oxygen concentrator for medical needs (consider a LOX system like Helios that doesnt need power).

Your internet connection will use a pittance for energy, but filter and condition it, and dont use a desktop if you dont really have to.

It wouldnt be necessary to switchover the entire house, just critical circuits like furnace fan, refrigeration and some strategic lights (here's where LEDs really pay off).  Rural folks will want to include a water pump.  Oxygen concentrator for medical needs (consider a LOX system like Helios that doesnt need power).

My outside lights will be CFCs, as the LED PAR38s are just so damned expensive right now.

Make sure they fit in the socket.  We tried a CFC PAR38 a while back and the base on the bulb above the threads bulged out more than the standard incandescent bulb and wouldn't fit in the socket.

The outside lights I have now are non-functioning halogen PAR38s so I should be safe.

Clarification:  the lights I'm speaking about are motion-activated flood lights for security.

I have three cold 1/6 bbl kegs on tap. Two homebrew wonders and a McNellie's Pub Ale.  What else could we need?

I have three cold 1/6 bbl kegs on tap. Two homebrew wonders and a McNellie's Pub Ale.  What else could we need?

Send your address by PM and I will be there, barring too much ice on the streets.
 
 ;D

Just got back from the hockey game.  Streets (even overpasses) seemed ok.  People were being very cautious everywhere I drove.  Didn't take long, but I had to stop at WallyWorld for icemelt since I ran out and forgot to go get some yesterday from my usual auto store.

The oil industry has been mostly profitable but the only thing most of us see is the price of gasoline and that has several middlepersons involved.  Why did the price of gas go up $.10 today other than the weather report?  I doubt Exxon, etc caused that.

They did exactly the same thing a few weeks ago when the last big storm was forecast (which just seems to drive business to the competition before they follow the new price). 

Not true, I pulled into QT just as they lowered the price 2 cents before the storm hit. I commented to the assistant manager who was changing the prices I was surprised they were going down instead of up.  He just shrugged his shoulders.

Gasoline goes up a dime Thursday night at QT's around town and you dont notice?  Seriously?

Believe he was talking about the previous storm Patric.  Simma down.  Sheesh.

Previous storm yep. 

This "storm", Up $.10

I believe that climate change is real and will have real impact on our children's lives.

But Al Gore is an idiot. The picture is funny.

I believe that climate change is real and will have real impact on our children's lives.

But Al Gore is an idiot. The picture is funny.

There absolutely is evidence that the Arctic ice cap is shrinking.  Just as it has before 5,000 years ago.  There is also absolute evidence that the Antarctic ice cap is growing just as it has millennia before. This is nature's fault.  This is man's fault.  Man is part of nature.  Algae is part of nature. Trees are part of Nature.  We cannot divorce ourselves from the system.  Sure, we must be good stewards of our environment, but we must continue to use energy and develop new efficiency, not because we are motivated by fear, but because we are motivated by opportunity!

Well put.
So much better than a certain local jackass:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbcs-alex-wagner-reminds-climate-change-denier-inhofe-that-oklahoma-is-hot-in-the-summer/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdVfmHiCEAAwzX7.jpg)

Listening to her reminds me of Don Henley, "Got the bubblehead bleach blond that comes on at five".

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/05/in-their-own-words-climate-alarmists-debunk-their-science/

http://www.businessinsider.com/cold-weather-doesnt-discredit-global-warming-2014-1

How about the record hot temperatures right now that Australia is seeing?  Siberia is also warmer than normal.  Let's remember that the world doesn't consist solely of America, and the phrase is "Global"....

That Al Gore picture is a hoot, ya know the global warming alarmists even have excuses for the ships stuck in the ice at the south pole and the bitter cold snap we had.  One claim was the north pole was getting so warm that it pushed the cold air down the globe, (the polar warm air displaced the cold polar air and the cold air moved south), others say the melting polar ice sheets broke apart and drifted south in the ocean and the ice chilled the ocean and chilled the air making for the cold weather... I  Remember the talk in 2005 the global warming wackos said that we'd have bad hurricanes every year because of global warming- we'll have Katrinas every year, well so far we went 7 or 8 years with no big hurricanes. Actually global warming is not really about science anyhow, it's a political movement, they are using climate alarmism to try and control the people and make regulations.

This is as good a thread as any to let people know that Hitler is fed up with Al Gore and his hypocrisy.

You really seem to be WAY to obsessed with this Hitler guy.... we got to get you a steady diet of "Too Cute - Puppies" on Animal Planet!!

http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/too-cute/videos/naughty-puppy.htm

Naw, I am too busy obsessing over Moochelle Obama. But you MUST like downfall videos.

A Chic-fil-a down the road gave out hundreds of free meals to people stranded on the 280 in Atlanta, then invited them to come sleep at the restaurant.

Lots of other businesses chipped in and opened their doors to the stranded as well.  Sad situation, but nice to see such acts of human kindness.

http://splashurl.com/nelc5wy

If global warming was real, why do they have to doctor data to make it real? Global warming is a hoax,  the globe is cooling off ice at both poles is growing. Anyone remember the global warming scam called "Climate Gate" back in 2007? My guess is the planet is heading toward something like "The Little Ice Age".. The warmest year of the 20th century was 1934.

www.iceagenow.com  > Click around the links also google has lots of info when you put in "Global warming hoax" The 5th article down on the page is intresting.

Survey: Geoscientists, Engineers Are Global Warming Skeptics
Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, according to a survey reported in the peer-reviewed Organization Studies. Nearly two-thirds of the 1,077 respondents believe that nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.

The survey results show geoscientists and engineers hold similar views as meteorologists. Two recent surveys of meteorologists (summarized here and here) revealed similar skepticism of alarmist global warming claims.

Read the new survey results here.

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/02/most-geoscientists-and-engineers-are-global-warming-skeptics/

That’s a pretty graphic awake.

Link to specific study: http://oss.sagepub.com/content/33/11/1477.full

If your job were dependent upon man-made global warming being real, wouldn’t you work every day at promoting your hypothesis whether or not you actually believed it?

Simply saying, there’s as much ulterior motive for this in the scientific community as their is in the political community.  Don’t think for one second that science is so perfect it cannot be corrupted by personal agendas.  That has happened for thousands of years.

By linking notions of the science or science fiction of climate change to the assessment of the adequacy of global and local policies and of potential organizational responses, we contribute to the understanding of ‘defensive institutional work’ by professionals within petroleum companies, related industries, government regulators, and their professional association.

Saur agrees with you Guido. Think on that, think long and hard on that.

Go back a few pages and you will find Hoss agreeing with your point. Think about having that parrot on the same side as you.

What is it with you insulting Hoss at every chance?

If your job were dependent upon denying man-made global warming being real, wouldn’t you work every day at promoting your hypothesis whether or not you actually believed it?

What difference does it make why the planet is warming.

Mostly because it would lead to a correct response and maybe we wouldn't waste resources going in the wrong direction.

Still not getting it. The planet is clearly warming outside the range of temperatures we humans have experienced since the beginning of written records. The increased atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are also the proximate cause of ocean acidification which is already having a significant effect on sea life. Why is irrelevant. That these things are happening is what is important.

What does the why get us that we actually need to know to prevent the consequences?

What is it with you insulting Hoss at every chance?

I agree, YOU are still not getting it.

I agree, YOU are still not getting it.

So why not explain? Given that the consequences of a warming climate are the same regardless of the cause, why are we still arguing about the whys rather than implementing solutions?

It's a lot harder to fire a tenured professor than it is a geologist at an oil company.

It continues to amaze me that we argue about it anyway. What difference does it make why the planet is warming. The fact of the matter is that this is a thing that is happening, and it will cause hundreds of trillions of dollars in direct damage from sea level rise alone if left unchecked. Sticking our heads in the sand only serves to magnify the losses. It's not as if when faced with other challenges from mother nature we've just thrown up our hands and decided to do nothing. You may note that our country is thick with flood control dams, levees, etc. People build safe rooms. They build earthquake-resistant buildings. But when it comes to a warming planet, a large segment of our populace has decided to just outright ignore it.

Jesus take the wheel, writ large, I guess?

Point being, it takes a lot of hubris to believe that man can direct nature.  I agree, climate change is a very real phenomena, it's been changing for millions of years.  How was it the science was so perfectly accepted forty years ago that climate cooling was happening because of smog, and now that's not an accepted theory.  So what happened?  The government stepped in and directed that big industry would clean up the emissions from their plants and auto makers would put smog devices on vehicles that would convert CO to CO2.  Wait?  Isn't CO2 a greenhouse gas supposedly responsible for global warming?

It's estimated by NOAA to be .12" per year.  Over a century that's one foot.  Not exactly a cataclysm, that's assuming that it's progressive and consistent. 

Don't forget that nate also believes that the movies  "The Day After Tomorrow" and "2012" are the best scientific documentaries of all time.

Global warming skeptics often cite contradictory reports from a generation ago warning of global cooling. In 1975 Newsweek wrote of "ominous signs" that temperatures were dipping, and a year later National Geographic suggested the possibility of a worldwide chilling trend. Stephen Schneider, a climatologist at Stanford University, recalls those stories well. "I was one of the ones who talked about global cooling," he says. "I was also the one who said what was wrong with that idea within three years."

Point being, it takes a lot of hubris to believe that man can direct nature.  I agree, climate change is a very real phenomena, it's been changing for millions of years.  

Only one in four American Meteorological Society broadcast meteorologists agrees with United Nations’ claims that humans are primarily responsible for recent global warming, a survey published in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society reports.

The survey results contradict the oft-repeated assertion that a consensus of scientists believes humans are causing a global warming crisis.

Objective Methods

The American Meteorological Society (AMS) survey was limited to television weather forecasters who are also meteorologists. A prior survey of all television weather forecasters--including ones without meteorological training--produced a heavy percentage of skeptics. The new survey was designed to determine whether the meteorologists held the same opinion as the broader group of all television weather forecasters.

The survey was conducted by the congressionally funded National Environmental Education Foundation and vetted by an advisory board of climate experts from groups such as the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, National Weather Service, and Pew Center for Global Climate Change.

Alarmist Claims Rejected

The AMS study found:

Only 24 percent of the survey respondents agree with United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) assertion, “Most of the warming since 1950 is very likely human-induced.”
Only 19 percent agree with the claim, “Global climate models are reliable in their projection for a warming of the planet.”
Only 19 percent agree with the assertion, “Global climate models are reliable in their projections for precipitation and drought.”
Only 45 percent disagree with Weather Channel cofounder John Coleman’s strongly worded statement, “Global warming is a scam.”
Others’ Statements Undermined

The survey results support the claims of rank-and-file scientists who say global warming position statements by the bureaucratic branches of groups such as the American Meteorological Society (AMS) are out of touch with the scientific opinions of member scientists.

A position statement by the AMS Council claims, for example, “strong observational evidence and results from modeling studies indicate that, at least over the last 50 years, human activities are a major contributor to climate change” and “there is a clear consensus on projected warming rates from human influences among different models and different emission scenarios.” The survey of AMS meteorologists shows only a small minority of AMS members agree with the AMS bureaucracy’s position statement.

Meteorologists Defy Bureaucrats

Joe D’Aleo, executive director of the International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project and first director of meteorology at the Weather Channel, is not surprised by the survey results.

“AMS has tried very hard to brainwash broadcast meteorologists by forcing them to attend conferences and teleconferences with one-sided presentations where global warming evangelism is preached,” D’Aleo said. “Broadcasters send me notifications they get from AMS telling them they must attend these conferences where only the alarmist point of view is preached. This survey shows that broadcast meteorologists are not swayed by these one-sided presentations.

“This survey likely was conducted in an attempt to isolate a ‘more scientifically trained’ subset of broadcast meteorologists that could be touted as more scientifically knowledgeable than television weathercasters as a whole. The survey shows, however, that such an attempt has backfired,” D’Aleo added.

“From my observation, the opinion of broadcast meteorologists on this is issue is similar to the opinions of all fields of practicing meteorologists,” D’Aleo concluded.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2010/02/01/meteorologists-reject-uns-global-warming-claims

Interesting, a majority of broadcast meteorologists don’t agree with the UN’s global warming agenda.

Do you need to be shown that pie graph again.  99.99% of all climate scientists that rely on grants to study global warming believe in global warming damn it!

As I've indicated, I do not deny the finding of GW. AGW, to me, is less clear, though I accept that it is likely true.

Accepted.

You brought up Randi, so let's see what he has to say:
Accepted.


http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/806-i-am-not-qdenyingq-anything.html

What's that? Even the most famous skeptic of the modern era is of the belief that global warming is a phenomenon that actually exists, which many here refuse to believe is even happening, instead perversely arguing that the global average temperature is decreasing. Not only that, but in his own words "AGW ... is likely true".

Most famous?  Up until today, I’d never heard of James Randi.  He’s a magician and escape artist.  In other words his scientific standing on the subject is as relevant as yours or mine.

Most famous?  Up until today, I’d never heard of James Randi.  He’s a magician and escape artist.  In other words his scientific standing on the subject is as relevant as yours or mine.

Most famous?  Up until today, I’d never heard of James Randi.  He’s a magician and escape artist.  In other words his scientific standing on the subject is as relevant as yours or mine.